Sakib Al Hasan, A genuine Bangladeshi all-rounder

[Mohiul]

Sakib makes it into an icc media release with a headline of "Saqibal Hasan makes his move into the top 50 batsmen." Currently he is in top 50 of both odi batsmen and bowlers rankings. Most interestingly he is the 11th ranked odi all-rounder in the world. Though icc doesn't release full lists of all-rounders ranking, his current ranking position in the all-rounders rankings is confirmed in the 3rd paragraph of the following report by icc:

The left-arm slow bowler from Khulna, who celebrates his 21st birthday tomorrow (Monday), also gained four places in LG ICC Player Rankings for ODI all-rounders. He now sits in 11th place, just behind New Zealand captain Daniel Vettori.

Saqibal Hasan makes his move into the top 50 batsmen (http://icc-cricket.yahoo.com/media-release/2008/march/media-release20080323-41.html)


WTG!!!! Sakib, my favourite player.

[irteja]

happy birthday Sakib

[Rabz]

Happy birthday Sakib.

Btw, whats the definition of a "genuine Bangladeshi" allrounder?

[Omio]

Happy birthday Sakib

[Rifat]

Happy Birthday "girgitti"

[zainab]

Happy 21st birthday Sakib. may allah bless you to complete your studies and to be a good cricketer.

[tiger_omar]

Happy birthday Moyna. And congrats for becoming a top all rounder.

May your success continue and the curse of soccer20reverse be removed from you :lol:.

[Protic]

Happy Birthday!
And congrats..

[Murad]

on 11th?? wow

I want to seee him in top 10 after the Pak series.

[al Furqaan]

good move, but his batting must improve against top sides. at the moment, he is a better bowler.

[WarWolf]

Congrats Shakib. Happy birthday present from ICC.

[Russell2k7]

His batting has been pretty dubious recently so I wonder how he moved up.

[zahid]

Formei chilo na... genuine ailo koth thaika?

[Eshen]

I don't think Shakib is a good enough bowler to be considered a genuine allrounder.

[Spitfire_x86]

Btw, whats the definition of a "genuine Bangladeshi" allrounder?
Who's not good enough to be in the team as either batsman or bowler.

[Foozy]

Congrats sakib, and happy birthday!
We all wanna see him in teh 10th spot now. Hopefully after the pak tour, provided it goes well, and not disastrous for the bd team...

[Ajfar]

moyna 21 hoila gelo..ore dekle to kew bissah korbo naa

[cricket_king]

Happy Birthday to Shakib. May your dreadful batting technique improve over the next few years.

[al-Sagar]

well his test match bowling needs some improvement.

but also we should always treat him ar a main batsman and 5th bowler. and we must play 4 other bowlers or 3 other bowlers and 1 all rounder.

[GuruTM]

Btw, whats the definition of a "genuine Bangladeshi" allrounder?

May be the thread opener wanted to emphasize the fact that Sakib is not a bihari, not a rohinga, not a upojati nor a rajakar's offspring, most probably have the same political affiliation and [বাংলা]আঞ্চলিক[/বাংলা] background as the thread opener. A "genuine Bangladeshi" that is. Its hard to find one in some particular days of this particular month of the year.

[Antora]

wow!!! 11th? nice!!!

and HAPPY BIRTHDAY MOYNA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[scoilaheez]

he still hasnt solidified his spot as a test player, he is still a dodgy batsmen but his bowling goes from strength to strength

[Mohiul]

Happy birthday Sakib.

Btw, whats the definition of a "genuine Bangladeshi" allrounder?

May be the thread opener wanted to emphasize the fact that Sakib is not a bihari, not a rohinga, not a upojati nor a rajakar's offspring, most probably have the same political affiliation and [বাংলা]আঞ্চলিক[/বাংলা] background as the thread opener. A "genuine Bangladeshi" that is. Its hard to find one in some particular days of this particular month of the year.


I tried to give empasis on his class as an all-rounder, I mean world-class all-rounder, as he's currently no. 11 in the all-rounder rankings

[Mohiul]

Who's not good enough to be in the team as either batsman or bowler.


Spitty = all time basher of one particular BD player [his target changes by the course of time]

He now moves onto Sakib from Golla.


His batting alone is enough for him to be in BD team. bowling is extra service.

[Megh]

SABBAS bagher bccha. congrates to Sakib. he will be in top ten soon INSHALLAH

[Sohel]

MaMi, our Magura Miandad is still under soccermia's curse. Just look at his ODI scores since that curse, save a few, VERY few oddities here and there. He's more of a decent ODI SLA who can bat a bit at this point.

That said, his jharhu and kodal shots maybe ugly to look at, but they can also be oh so effective as they just were in that recent ODI innings against SA. He remains one of my favorite players and I'll never give up on him. He'll come good Inshallah.

My prayers are with him.

[rainmaniac]

happy birthday to dear shakib. already turned 21 but still looks so immatured...
congrates to him..may he play in the national team for a long time with consistancy..

[Sohel]

I know what he needs for his birthday: a WELL-FITTED helmet.

[bujhee kom]

may you live a long, happy and successful life, my dear shakib al-hasan!
and congratulations! we are all very proud of you!

[lamisa]

Happy Birthday!!!kintu 21?

[Aritro]

Limited batsman with admirable powers of concentration who looks a lot more comfortable in ODIs. Test opposition can simply pack the slip and gully region and proceed to pepper him with balls pitched back of a length outside off stump and wait for him, inevitably, to spoon one. In ODIs he doesn't have to face this problem and can go about quietly accumulating runs with the shots he does have.

Rather ineffectual test bowler but, once again, a much better one in ODIs. Has no real variation or penetration but can be relied on to bowl in the right areas for ten overs.

I don't know whether he'll be anywhere near the team in five years, but despite his technical shortcomings, and unlike his team-mates, he has the laudible quality of being able to apply himself and make the most of what talent he does have.

[fwullah]

Agreed with Aritro's point.

At best, he's an One-Day allrounder, or a Twenty-twenty allrounder, not good enough for Test cricket.

[mali007]

Happy B'day !! He is our future CAPTAIN !!!

[Pundit]

Happy birthday Sakib.

Btw, whats the definition of a "genuine Bangladeshi" allrounder?

He who holds a bangladeshi passport, and with no anchesteral links to India, Pakistan, Bihar or Turkemenistan.

And of course, his playing credentials should be -

batting average: atleast 75% of all our batsmens' average average (~ > 18)
bowling average: same as above with bowlers' stats (~ < 38)

[Sohel]

He who holds a bangladeshi passport, and with no anchesteral links to India, Pakistan, Bihar or Turkemenistan.

And of course, his playing credentials should be -

batting average: atleast 75% of all our batsmens' average average (~ > 18)
bowling average: same as above with bowlers' stats (~ < 38)

Ujbukistan being the sole exception ... ;)

[Pundit]

Ujbukistan being the sole exception ... ;)

I don't know - seeing how they put on a ujbok like display so prolifically, that exception might have to be ammended.

Dhor dhor dhor dhor
Ujbukistan ke boycott kor

[auntu]

Happy Birthday Saccu !!!!

[Beamer]

I know what he needs for his birthday: a WELL-FITTED helmet.

Or a fishing rod perhaps! He would be better served to go fishing for real than trying to use his bat as a fishing rod outside the off stump.

[RezOne]

Shakib is my favorite bangladeshi cricketer. He's not really in great form but I think this kid can be the captain of our team in the future. He's a good middle order batsman and a very handy bowler. He's also a good fielder. But I don't know it just seems like he has the correct attitude. He has star potential.

[Beamer]

Who's not good enough to be in the team as either batsman or bowler.

He is just a better version in the long tradition of Shujon, Babu, Rana etc. Ironically, they have always been more popular ( not Babu )for some weird reason. I have no clear understanding as to why that is so. Maybe, the years of failure from the top order batsmen made those triers look better and hence the popularity. Eventually, hopefully we won't need their services if batters and bowlers do their job. Saying that, people like Sakib are valuable for a ODI team, but not three of them. One is enough for a good one day team.

[Eshen]

Beamer, I think you are being harsh to Rana by putting him in the same category with Chacha and Babu. As a bowler, I think, Rana was almost as good as Razzak is. Let's look at those two's stats against top 8 teams-

Rana's Stats (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/player/55991.html?class=2;opposition=1;opposition=2;oppos ition=3;opposition=4;opposition=5;opposition=6;opp osition=7;opposition=8;template=results;type=bowli ng)
Razzak's Stats (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/player/56283.html?class=2;opposition=1;opposition=2;oppos ition=3;opposition=4;opposition=5;opposition=6;opp osition=7;opposition=8;template=results;type=bowli ng)

As you can see, those two has/had identical average, econ, and sr. Rana did not have as many matches against minnows as Razzak does, which is why I think Rana's overall stats does not look as pretty as Razzak's. IMO, Razzak is obviously a better bowler, but Rana was not far behind.

Shakib, as a bowler, is nowhere near any of those two.

Shakib's Stats (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/player/56143.html?class=2;opposition=1;opposition=2;oppos ition=3;opposition=4;opposition=5;opposition=6;opp osition=7;opposition=8;template=results;type=bowli ng;view=innings)

[Spitfire_x86]

Yeah, Rana was good enough to play as a specialist ODI bowler. ATM Sakib is a specialist ODI 5th bowler who can bat a bit.

[al Furqaan]

Yeah, Rana was good enough to play as a specialist ODI bowler. ATM Sakib is a specialist ODI 5th bowler who can bat a bit.

bang on target. i am not too convinced of sakib's batting, day in day out. he can occaisionally hold the innings together ala Javed...still better than JO.

but he's in the side as bowler now. i hope siddons can rectify his batting problems. we don't need sakib to be an ash, aftab or tamim. just a solid guy who can hold the innings together. but someone who can score consistently against even the best attacks and not just a minnow basher.

[Beamer]

Eshen

In the sense that they are called ''all rounders" is my main bone of contention. I threw those names together since they had the similar tasks. Sakib, as I have said clearly, is a better version than all of them Rana was better bowler than Sakib, almost a specialist bowler but his batting was awful. Sakib is a better batsman comparatively but his bowling ideally is not good enough for 10 overs. Either way, I wasn't impressed with Rana ( God bless his soul ), nor am I with Sakib, and fans overrate him the same way as they did with Rana. Its actually unfair on him. I also don't think Sakib can be a match winning batsman even though he occupies a batting spot ( no.5 or 6 ) which requires that batsman from time to time to bat his team home to safety. I just can't picture him to win a match from a losing situation. If he was a no.7 or no.8 batsman, I wouldn't have that much expectation, but where he bats, I would like to see him play a match winning innings at least once before I start calling him a batsman. I have no doubt that he will always play a decent innings when the outcome of the match is no longer in question. i.e : we are losing for sure, and he will play a 40+ or even a 50 run innings to bloat his stats. Can he even accelerate when needed? Does he have any power when needed? If not, what good is a no.6? I don't think he has any improvisation skills either. I won't be a part of this conversation if he was in the team as a no.7 or no.8 batsman with some bowling skills. But, since he bats at such a crucial position, I believe, every scrutiny is fair.

[tiger_omar]

I don't think this thread will be complete without the input of "soccer20reverse" on this topic, and most of you should know of what I'm talking about ;).

[RazabQ]

I have been basically saying the same things as you folks. Namely that Sakib is Rana 2.0 with slightly better batting but assuredly lesser bowling abilities. Having said that, I wonder if #6 , #7 is the wrong position for him.

I just did some quick Statsguru searches and this is how it plays
<pre>
Innings NO Runs SR Ave
Unfiltered: 41 9 1047 65.7% 32.7
At #4 25 7 743 71.2% 41.3
At #5 11 2 249 56.2% 27.7
At #6-7 5 0 55 51.4% 11
</pre>

I did apply the qualitative filter of traditional powers vs. newer Test teams and associates and these figures more or less hold up. Clearly Shakib is more effective when the ball is newer and the Powerplays may be on (hence attacking fields). His cultured slashes and hoiks tend to get more value and once he settles in he does an okay job of strike rotation. Note I only did these stats for ODIs. Clearly he's not a test player based on present ability/skills.

[Aritro]

Great analysis there.

Another reason why he might be better at four is that he's got more time to occupy the crease and build a total.

He's definitely not the sort of batsman who'll play his best cricket when he's rushed.

[Eshen]

I would say Shakib is more like Rajin 2.0, with the advantage of being a left hander and with better control over his bowling. Both have different styles of batting, but both have crappy footworks and limited armory of strokes.

[Spitfire_x86]

Great analysis there.

Another reason why he might be better at four is that he's got more time to occupy the crease and build a total.

He's definitely not the sort of batsman who'll play his best cricket when he's rushed.
He can't build an innings against quality attacks when he has all the time in the world (in Test). Anything but batting position is the main reason behind his failures.

Sakib against top 8 - at #4 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/player/56143.html?batting_positionmax1=4;batting_position min1=4;batting_positionval1=batting_position;class =2;filter=advanced;opposition=1;opposition=2;oppos ition=3;opposition=4;opposition=5;opposition=6;opp osition=8;orderby=default;template=results;type=ba tting), Avg. 22 - SR 61

Sakib against top 8 - at #5 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/player/56143.html?batting_positionmax1=5;batting_position min1=5;batting_positionval1=batting_position;class =2;filter=advanced;opposition=1;opposition=2;oppos ition=3;opposition=4;opposition=5;opposition=6;opp osition=8;orderby=default;template=results;type=ba tting) , Avg. 27 - SR 55

[GuruTM]

It wouldn't be long when there would be threads all over BC to drop Sakib. ATM, he is escaping those hue cries just because he is not under the spotlight as much as the other "Superstars". He bowls as a fifth bowler, bats at reasonably lower down the order which brings him out of all sorts of scrutiny effectively and being part of a very mediocre team helps such mediocrity more than one can think. He almost never had an exceptional match winning performance so the fans subconciously doesn't expect him to win some matches even on a rare basis. Thus he keeps the expectation level lower even more effectively. I wouldn't call it a deliberate act nor would i call it otherwise but its hard to resist. Looks to me, he is mature well beyond his age and he knows how to handle expectation level, albeit in a negative way. Which also brings about some very distasteful question of commitment and consistency, i will avoid those at this stage. What makes me upset is i used to think that he is capable of better. To add even bitterness to it, every now and then he just performs a little over his expectation mark and voila. Everyone is happy. Question is, how long before we call mediocrity as mediocrity?

If only Ashraful, Shahriar Nafees, Tamim and some others in the team was half as smart as this kid. I hope he makes me eat that free humble pie and pull his socks up sooner before its too late.

[RazabQ]

Anything but batting position is the main reason behind his failuresI'm not attributing all his woes to his position in the batting order but surely that plays a part along with his very limited repertoire of strokes and angler's mindset. Also he seems to better in ODIs on bouncy pitches. Which again supports the "does better against newer ball and attacking field" angle.

Test matches is a non-issue. Anyway with his propensity to nibble at any delivery flashed across his bow would fail in Tests.

[Aritro]

He can't build an innings against quality attacks when he has all the time in the world (in Test). Anything but batting position is the main reason behind his failures.

Sakib against top 8 - at #4 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/player/56143.html?batting_positionmax1=4;batting_position min1=4;batting_positionval1=batting_position;class =2;filter=advanced;opposition=1;opposition=2;oppos ition=3;opposition=4;opposition=5;opposition=6;opp osition=8;orderby=default;template=results;type=ba tting), Avg. 22 - SR 61

Sakib against top 8 - at #5 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/player/56143.html?batting_positionmax1=5;batting_position min1=5;batting_positionval1=batting_position;class =2;filter=advanced;opposition=1;opposition=2;oppos ition=3;opposition=4;opposition=5;opposition=6;opp osition=8;orderby=default;template=results;type=ba tting) , Avg. 27 - SR 55

As I said in an earlier post, the reason he struggles in test cricket is because opposition teams have worked that if they pitch the ball short of a length outside off stump and pack the slip and gully region, eventually he's going to slash at one or play one of his hapless poke shots and spoon a catch.

Even though though captains are forced to employ an attacking field during the early part of an ODI due to fielding restrictions, you'll rarely see one pack that part of the field the way they do in Tests. For this reason he can poke and scratch his way to decent score in relative security. But when he's forced to come in later in the innings, he invariably gets himself out because he hasn't got the repertoire to force the pace.

Anyway, it seems from those stats that five's his best position.

[Sohel]

It was a great pleasure to read some of the posts here. Top notch discussion amongst Spitty, Razab, Arito and Beamer.

Thank you guys ... :)

[GuruTM]

Shakib, as a bowler, is nowhere near any of those two.

Shakib's Stats (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/player/56143.html?class=2;opposition=1;opposition=2;oppos ition=3;opposition=4;opposition=5;opposition=6;opp osition=7;opposition=8;template=results;type=bowli ng;view=innings)

Thats right. And the worrying factor is his batting has gone down a long way as well. Being an unknown quantity in international arena helped him get some runs initially, it is not helping him right now. These days he wouldn't make it to Bangladesh team just for batting or bowling. But it will be while before we see him being replaced.

[SS]

I'm not attributing all his woes to his position in the batting order but surely that plays a part along with his very limited repertoire of strokes and angler's mindset. Also he seems to better in ODIs on bouncy pitches. Which again supports the "does better against newer ball and attacking field" angle.

Test matches is a non-issue. Anyway with his propensity to nibble at any delivery flashed across his bow would fail in Tests.

as usual great insight and perfect analysis of Sakib from our sage mr.RazabQ, this sums up all about his batting. It will take time, proper training, hard work and overall wicket condition to nurture him and all of our players. We are very slow doing all these processes which are essential for any test standard teams. We are very quick in changing players around looking at their immediate success in local leagues which are inadequate. Players can work hard several hours in nets but if other plannings are not up to the standard, there is no way we can see any improvements against quality teams. International 'genuine' bowlers can easily find out these weaknesses and manipulate with their clever bowling unlike our regular league bowlers. So you can call him 'genuine' on Bangladeshi standard not international level standard in test arena, which is true in all sense, as he is young and overal a BD cricketer. If he were somewhere else, would have been different 'genuine' allrounder.

[Tigers_eye]

Hello Beamer,
I know your post was specifically directed to Eshen, but allow me to refute some of the points. May be Eshen would agree with you in some cases but I wouldn't.
...I also don't think Sakib can be a match winning batsman even though he occupies a batting spot ( no.5 or 6 ) which requires that batsman from time to time to bat his team home to safety. I just can't picture him to win a match from a losing situation.
how many times did he play a match winning knock when he was in the U-19 team? Give him some time to adapt. He just finished two years in Intl arena. Unlike Mash, Ash and others he thinks positives all the time. For once, we have not won any match from a losing situation. At least I don't remember. The match at Cardiff, was still under control or managable situation. So you are expecting something that has never been done yet. Correct? Since it has been not done yet, who do you think will be the first BD player (batting) to win us from a losing situation? I will think hard will be willing to replace Shakib with that super talented batsman.
If he was a no.7 or no.8 batsman, I wouldn't have that much expectation, but where he bats, I would like to see him play a match winning innings at least once before I start calling him a batsman.
So my question is JO, HB, SN, TI, NI, ZS, Rajin, Alok, Mushfiq, Raquibul are batsmen or not?

And in BD team we have only two batsmen Ash and Aftab. No one else has made any match winning knock against the big boys. Since that is the criteria of being a batsman or not. That is it. Please make that clear. Tamim's fifty against India was as crucial as Shakib or Mushi's fifty.
I have no doubt that he will always play a decent innings when the outcome of the match is no longer in question. i.e : we are losing for sure, and he will play a 40+ or even a 50 run innings to bloat his stats.
This is a cheap shot you are taking on him because you don't like him and he is taking up space of one of your favorite player Alok.

And as for bloating stats, when Aftab does that it becomes "yes, he is playing sensibly", but when Shakib does, "he is bloating the stats."
Can he even accelerate when needed? Does he have any power when needed? If not, what good is a no.6?
I ask can Ash, Aftab do that? 95% of the time they fail while trying to do that. That percentage says they can't either. So who actually can do that in BD team? I would like to know. (Why single him out?)
I don't think he has any improvisation skills either. I won't be a part of this conversation if he was in the team as a no.7 or no.8 batsman with some bowling skills. But, since he bats at such a crucial position, I believe, every scrutiny is fair.
If you are talking about the skill-set Ash flashes in his eid day, then I hope no BD player has improvised skill sets. That is the reason of his downfall. trying to play wrong shots at the wrong time. One does not need improvization shots in his arsenal to be a successful #6 batsman.
There is no doubt in a batting order #6 is crucial position. however, it is not as crucial as #1, #2, #3, #4, or even #5. Scrutiny is fair, disecting in to pieces and throwing them in the trash when others are no better is unfair.

No matter what Alok will not be replacing Shakib. Thank God.

[Spitfire_x86]

This is a cheap shot you are taking on him because you don't like him and he is taking up space of one of your favorite player Alok.
..........
No matter what Alok will not be replacing Shakib. Thank God.
I can't speak for the others, but I definitely didn't have Alok in mind while discussing about Sakib in this thread. Alok represents the past, and maybe distant future (without any certainty). Sakib represents recent past, present and near future. Farhad and Riyad are current contenders for his slot in the team.

In the current line-up, Sakib has no business in top 5 (the later part of your post also seems to concede this). Farhad might fare better as what we need at #6 (a batting allrounder), but he hardly got any chances in that role due to vastly overrated batting ability of Sakib.

[RazabQ]

How does Alok come into this conversation? Anyway I think his best position is #4. You'd have the two openers, then Ash, then Shakib, then someone else, and then Aftab. I know they promote Aftab to #3 for his boom boom but that's a waste of his skills. Aftab is the only player we have who has some "finisher" skills in him and he can easily be our Bevan. Ash doesn't. Otherwise Shakib should bat at #8 and be counted only as a bowler.

[Murad]

Razab bhai, Ash should never play at 3. He should bat only at 4 or 5.

[Beamer]

T_E

I looked hard in this thread and could not find mentioning Alok anywhere. Sorry that you had to bring him up in a totally unrelated thread.

I don't think I was taking a cheap shot at Sakib. I do like his character very much. I also think he is very overrated and possibly not a top six material. I think I am allowed to say what I feel about a cricketer for our national team.

Anyway..I said what I said about him and it doesn't need any further elaboration. I am just glad that I am not the only one who see things a certain way.

And, Yes, It was meant for Eshen.

[Beamer]

How does Alok come into this conversation? Anyway I think his best position is #4. You'd have the two openers, then Ash, then Shakib, then someone else, and then Aftab. I know they promote Aftab to #3 for his boom boom but that's a waste of his skills. Aftab is the only player we have who has some "finisher" skills in him and he can easily be our Bevan. Ash doesn't. Otherwise Shakib should bat at #8 and be counted only as a bowler.

Aftab is the only player who you can play at no.3 and no.6. And, Yes, you need power and improvisation skills at no.6 contrary to some opinions. It may not be needed in every game, but a no.6 sometimes have to come with only 8-10 overs left, and have to carry on or increase the RR right away.

I also think, barring the openers, the rest four has to be versatile enough to come at any position in the top six. Aftab for example can play 3, 5 or 6. Ash has played every position and is capable of changing gears according to the batting spot. SN has opened and also played in the middle order. I can't picture Sakib at no.3 or no.6. His best spot is possibly no.4, but Ash is rightly coming in there now. That leaves him fixed at no.5. In a given match, if the top four do their job, he will have to come in right away and accelerate. I don't think he is capable of that. Off Course, he will be fine if we are struggling big time and there is no pressure on him to up the RR. In other words, play a nice little innings in a losing cause. Anyway..

[Murad]

moyna pakhi ta ke ki na lila khela choltase ekhane...

pooor moyna...

[Sohel]

I can't speak for the others, but I definitely didn't have Alok in mind while discussing about Sakib in this thread. Alok represents the past, and maybe distant future (without any certainty). Sakib represents recent past, present and near future. Farhad and Riyad are current contenders for his slot in the team.

In the current line-up, Sakib has no business in top 5 (the later part of your post also seems to concede this). Farhad might fare better as what we need at #6 (a batting allrounder), but he hardly got any chances in that role due to vastly overrated batting ability of Sakib.

Spot on Spitty … :up:

Mijan,

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again with immense pleasure: I LOVE YOU MORE THAN I LOVE ALOK KAPALI ... :-*

That said, I think it your own feelings for Moyna that are getting in the way of your better judgment here, as evidenced by use of the A-word in a rather angry post ... :)

Just look at our Magura Miandad’s last ODI innings since the ODI World Cup HERE (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/player/56143.html?class=2;template=results;type=batting;v iew=innings) and tell me why he should continue to get more chances when both Forhad Reza and Mohammad Mahmudullah Riad hardly had any? Forhad, perhaps when used in shorter spells, can be economical bowler who can take wickets on occasion. Riad is a good ODI “container” of runs who adds the much needed variety into our SLA-heavy attack I’m sure the Top 8 have figured how to crack by now since the ODI World Cup. That sort of adaptation is precisely what keeps them in the Top 8.

I don’t think our 3 spinners attack will bear much fruit in Pakistan, do you?

I think you just needed to vent and for some reason Alok and my twin got at the wrong end of your wrath … :)

Having said all that, and as a unabashed MaMi fan, I think 12-manning would be just the sort of "tough love" he needs to get hungry again, as both Riad and Forhad get a few, at least 10 chances on-the-trot of their own. This type of break, especially in light of the harshness of HSC exams at 21, is a much needed break from the spotlight of our passionate venom and excessive praise IMHO. Kicking a dawg when he’s down is NEVER a good idea and you know that my brother.

Lastly, as an unabashed Alok Kapali fan, a man whose new and improved batting I have been privileged to witness over the last two years here in Dhaka, I don’t want to see him anywhere near our national team before quite a few solid seasons of A-Team cricket, and preferably in his late 20s or early 30s. No matter how watching Alok bat adds to my life in Dhaka - in fact I can easily say his batting is one of the best things about living here – I recognize the issues he needs to overcome and what he needs to do in order to do just that, Inshallah.

Why?

Because I don’t want to see him or any one of our players fail to sustain success at the highest level AGAIN. That goes for MaMi, someone I like, but also Rajin, someone I don’t. They’re all young and have plenty of time to make it in sport where 30+ cricketers dominate the scene, with the sole exceptions of Graeme Smith and Dale Steyn.

Peace … :)

[Tigers_eye]

Thanks Sohel bhai I know that. When ever I come back, biriani na khawailey khobor chutai dibo.

Yes, I am blind and biased towards Shakib. And that is the very reason it hurts more when your twin continues to state that he only comes good when the game is over with adjectives of "nice little" or "will always play decent innings". These pinches directly sparks my nerves like continuous electric shocks.

[Beamer]

There I said again - Sakib only comes good when the game is over by playing a nice little innings to prolong the inevitable

[Murad]

I think I agree with Beamar somehow.

Shakib mostly make a good score when the team is losing. (against the big teams only).

When the team is doing good, he doesn't stay long on the crease. He gets out for any scores less than 20.

[Tigers_eye]

There I said again - Sakib only comes good when the game is over by playing a nice little innings to prolong the inevitable
Congrates!! You have just won my vote for the "best post of the year" award.

(grrr!! :head: Should have stated "evil twin")

[Beamer]

Congrates!! You have just won my vote for the "best post of the year" award.

(grrr!! :head: Should have stated "evil twin")

Thank you. I will take any recognition I can get. Love the " evil twin" tag. That suits me very well.

I love Sakib aka MaMi aka Moyna..any others cool names ?

[Mohiul]

What a debate going on!!!! Now I feel honoured as the opener of this thread. Everybody is expressing their pionts so clearly.........

[Beamer]

Sohel

Pending approval, may I propose a nickname for Sakib? You shouldn't be the only one giving people names. How about, 'sromik' ? he labors hard on the field, sometimes with a kodal..No?

[Beamer]

What a debate going on!!!! Now I feel honoured as the opener of this thread. Everybody is expressing their pionts so clearly.........

You should be.

[FagunerAgun]

He is not better than our roaring Salma

[al Furqaan]

unfortunately, i will have to agree with Beamer here. i like sakib, but he just seems to be a utility player with no match-winning batting abilities. he is more of a match winning ODI bowler than a batsman.

however, will disagree with beamer and not discount his 69* against SL in 06 and his 50+ against SA couple weeks back. in both cases, match was over, true. the quadry he inherited from our callous top order meant that he could either smash 15 from 9 and BD would roll over for less than 100, or go on to post a non-humiliating score. when we score 170 the biggots don't take notice. if we were to break records of futility they would.

now one might say, 'who cares what the biggots think?', and i agree. but only in an ideal world. in the ideal world the biggots would be used an alternative fuel source, but in this world they run the ICC and have already put us in psuedo-2nd tier status and won't stop until we are an associate nation again. therefor, until we reach parity with the top 8 nations - which will take a while, but WILL happen, we must do the following:

1) first look to win all matches
2) secondly, look to win all matches
3) when the win is out of the books, go for the "honorable defeat"

thus, whilst i have little to no faith in sakib as a long term batting solution, i will never discredit his 69* or SA 50 because, frankly we needed that.

**********

as of right now, we have only two batsmen who have displayed match-winning knocks against a full strength bowling attack from a top side: tamim (wc india match) and ash (Aus, SA matches).

we have aftab who played a match winning knock against a depleted india in 04, and equivalently, SN who didn't play match winners, but was solid against full strenght AUS in 05 NW series (75 runs).

if you add JS who could potentially be a tier 2 (or even tier 1 with ash and TI), raqib who is a consolidator, farhad, and riyad. we can have a decent lineup should most of our pieces click.

[Spitfire_x86]

however, will disagree with beamer and not discount his 69* against SL in 06 and his 50+ against SA couple weeks back.
His 67* against SL is easily the worst ODI fifty made by a BD batsman since JO's 80+ against England in 2005. The 50 against SA was a different case though, as the partnership between Rakib and him kept us in the match upto 35th over of our innings.

[Beamer]

Asad

Why agreeing with me has to be unfortunate bro? I am hurt..

I didn't discount his 69 against SL. He plays with the best of his ability. Unfortunately, he doesn't have much ability with the bat, unless those scenarios ( match out of reach ) that I mentioned occurs.

Pre-WC and WC Sakib was pretty impressive. I think I know why. Just look at the one day line up back then and you will see what I am talking about. He shone like a bright star among keorsene powered one day players at that time. Also, playing a lot against the likes of Zim, Scotland and other associates didn't hurt his cause either. JO ( pre WC )was opening back then with SN ( who was horrendous in WC ). Rajin played as well. Middle order had Aftab, HaBa and an out of sorts Ash at that time. Whatmore had Sakib coming to bat at no.4, before Ash to my astonishment , so he had time to ply his trade. Ash was even relegated to no.7. Then you had Pilot, another aging star who was a massive batting liability in ODI's. Among them, he looked very good and fresh who also bowled. Fast forward to 2008 : Tamim, SN, Junaid- all three solid players in the mix now. Aftab and Ash are present at high no.3 and 4. Also, you have two more utility guys breathing on his neck - Reza and Riad. Rakib also looks like a very capable hand. Sakib is just sticking out now. Before, he looked good, not because of himself but who was in front and back of him. Thats all.

[al Furqaan]

His 67* against SL is easily the worst ODI fifty made by a BD batsman since JO's 80+ against England in 2005. The 50 against SA was a different case though, as the partnership between Rakib and him kept us in the match upto 35th over of our innings.

i'm glad we see eye-to-eye on the SA 50. and i will make a concession - tho not complete - in your direction vis-a-vis the SL 67*

that 67* brought us a respectable total. 265 in 50 overs is the best we've done against a top side in a while, no matter what you say about it (Lankans were'n't careful int he field due to having the match on ice.).

sakib was playing in like his 5th match and his first one against top sides, so in context that innings was good. the problem is sakib's batting has not developed since then. and that is unrealistic. the guy is not an ashraful.

i really don't see sakib being a long term batsman in either form of the game. right now's he's a decent ODI bowler who bats a bit and thats pretty much it. rana 1.5 he is indeed.

[al Furqaan]

Asad

Why agreeing with me has to be unfortunate bro? I am hurt..


i meant unfortunate, because we were both agreeing that sakib is essentially a limited player.

in case you're being serious, you know over the last 4 years al Furqaan has come to greatly respect Beamer as well as some others here at BC. i'm pretty sure those who have my respect know it well...but much love to all BC members.

I didn't discount his 69 against SL. He plays with the best of his ability. Unfortunately, he doesn't have much ability with the bat, unless those scenarios ( match out of reach ) that I mentioned occurs.

Pre-WC and WC Sakib was pretty impressive. I think I know why. Just look at the one day line up back then and you will see what I am talking about. He shone like a bright star among keorsene powered one day players at that time. Also, playing a lot against the likes of Zim, Scotland and other associates didn't hurt his cause either. JO ( pre WC )was opening back then with SN ( who was horrendous in WC ). Rajin played as well. Middle order had Aftab, HaBa and an out of sorts Ash at that time. Whatmore had Sakib coming to bat at no.4, before Ash to my astonishment , so he had time to ply his trade. Ash was even relegated to no.7. Then you had Pilot, another aging star who was a massive batting liability in ODI's. Among them, he looked very good and fresh who also bowled. Fast forward to 2008 : Tamim, SN, Junaid- all three solid players in the mix now. Aftab and Ash are present at high no.3 and 4. Also, you have two more utility guys breathing on his neck - Reza and Riad. Rakib also looks like a very capable hand. Sakib is just sticking out now. Before, he looked good, not because of himself but who was in front and back of him. Thats all.

i'm pretty much gonna have to agree with all that. sakib just doesn't have the "talent" that SN, JS, mushy have let alone the ash-aftab-tamim trio.

[GuruTM]

Guys, aren't we fighting over disagreement on agreement in Sakib's issue? Pretty much everyone who are arguing on this topic saying basically the same thing but not necessarily agreeing, bit strange isn't it? We Bengalis disagree to agree, me thinks.


ATM Sakib is a specialist ODI 5th bowler who can bat a bit.


At best, he's an One-Day allrounder, or a Twenty-twenty allrounder, not good enough for Test cricket.

Anyway with his propensity to nibble at any delivery flashed across his bow would fail in Tests.

the reason he struggles in test cricket is because opposition teams have worked that if they pitch the ball short of a length outside off stump and pack the slip and gully region, eventually he's going to slash at one or play one of his hapless poke shots and spoon a catch.


So you can call him 'genuine' on Bangladeshi standard not international level standard in test arena, which is true in all sense, as he is young and overal a BD cricketer. If he were somewhere else, would have been different 'genuine' allrounder.


Saying that, people like Sakib are valuable for a ODI team, but not three of them. One is enough for a good one day team.
....

Sakib is just sticking out now. Before, he looked good, not because of himself but who was in front and back of him. Thats all.



we don't need sakib to be an ash, aftab or tamim. just a solid guy who can hold the innings together. but someone who can score consistently against even the best attacks and not just a minnow basher.


Just look at our Magura Miandad’s last ODI innings since the ODI World Cup HERE (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/player/56143.html?class=2;template=results;type=batting;v iew=innings) and tell me why he should continue to get more chances when both Forhad Reza and Mohammad Mahmudullah Riad hardly had any?

I would say Shakib is more like Rajin 2.0, with the advantage of being a left hander and with better control over his bowling. Both have different styles of batting, but both have crappy footworks and limited armory of strokes.

<HR style="COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=1>


And then there is Tigers_eye. He made a gem of a post but messed it with bringing up Alok. Damn, Alok is not even a hot topic these days.

No matter what Alok will not be replacing Shakib. Thank God.


To add even bitterness to it, every now and then he just performs a little over his expectation mark and voila. Everyone is happy. Question is, how long before we call mediocrity as mediocrity?

[Spitfire_x86]

i'm glad we see eye-to-eye on the SA 50. and i will make a concession - tho not complete - in your direction vis-a-vis the SL 67*

that 67* brought us a respectable total. 265 in 50 overs is the best we've done against a top side in a while, no matter what you say about it (Lankans were'n't careful int he field due to having the match on ice.).
When he came to the crease, the match was not over (technically). A batsman worthy of the #4 slot could make something out of the game from that situation. What he did is history, but another new player also batted alongside him (Farhad). He got less runs and couldn't stay very long, but scored those runs in far more assured manner and with positive intent.

sakib was playing in like his 5th match and his first one against top sides, so in context that innings was good. the problem is sakib's batting has not developed since then. and that is unrealistic. the guy is not an ashraful.
It's not all about how much he scored those runs, or how fast he scored. The way he got those runs and his approach to the game were the most depressing things about that innings. It was indeed sign of things to come. You can often judge the caliber of a batsman from his early few innings (e.g. Yuvraj, Rohit Sharma).

I was always willing to re-evaluate my early opinion on his batting, especially after a reasonably good world cup showing from him. But over the last year, he hasn't done anything but confirmed my worries about his competence as specialist batsman.

[thebest]

those who are complaining that he always performed when match is over against big boys, conveniently forgot his knock against India in WC. how vulnerable we were was proven after his fall in that match. I could not remember any of our player has more than one match winning innings. Even Ash's all great knocks bar the Aus are after match is decided. So give Sakib a break. BTW I am not a Sakib fan. I do agree he is contesting for a spot with FR and MR but at the same time I do not agree with Spitty's view that He is neither a batsman nor a bowler. I would consider him as a Batting allrounder thus can compete with Rakib for number 5 position in batting order.

[crikfreak]

wow.. some argument going on over here.. GuruTM's got a point.. how come u're all arguing and yet the point comes down to be the same.. anyways.. happy belated b'day to sakib.. couldn't come on his b'day to give him a taja b'day wish..he's one of my favourite cricketers..

[Beamer]

Asad

I was kidding off course !

[Tigers_eye]

We just won handful of matches so this should not be so much difficult.

Match winners:
Australia: Ash. Yup!! Would he be the match winner had HB didn't support him in the middle, or Aftab didn't play his cameo at the end? nope. Still he gets the tag of being match winner. Fine!! Since he got the lion share of the runs.

SA: Ash again. Yup!! Would he be the match winner had Aftab didn't support him in the middle, or Mash (16 ball 25) didn't play his cameo at the end? nope. Still he gets the tag of being match winner. Fine!! Since he got the lion share of the runs.

SL: No clear cut match winner. Javed's 40, Ash's 51, Bashar 33, Aftab's 32* saw us home.

Ind 04: We can tag Aftab as the match winner for his 67, yet Murtaza was MOM. Supporting cast was Ash 28, Mash with 31*, K Mashud 20, and three other batsmen scored 17 runs. Aftab also had reasonable support.

Ind 07: No clearcut Match winner. Bowlers did their job, Tamim started the on slaught, Shakib and Mushi saw us home. All three innings were significant.

In every instances, where we are tagging players as match winners they had reasonable support from the team members. No one can deny that.

++++++++++++
Now let us look at the WC match against England.
<TABLE style="WIDTH: 472pt; BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=624 border=0 x:str><COLGROUP><COL style="WIDTH: 110pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 5339" width=146><COL style="WIDTH: 134pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 6509" width=178><COL style="WIDTH: 38pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 1828" span=6 width=50><TBODY><TR style="HEIGHT: 15.75pt; mso-height-source: userset" height=21><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; WIDTH: 244pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; HEIGHT: 15.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: silver" width=324 colSpan=2 height=21>Bangladesh innings (50 overs maximum)</TD><TD class=xl30 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 38pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: silver" width=50>R</TD><TD class=xl30 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 38pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: silver" width=50>M</TD><TD class=xl30 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 38pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: silver" width=50>B</TD><TD class=xl30 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 38pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: silver" width=50>4s</TD><TD class=xl30 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 38pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: silver" width=50>6s</TD><TD class=xl30 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 38pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: silver" width=50>SR</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" height=17>Tamim Iqbal (http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/wc2007/content/current/player/56194.html)</TD><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 134pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=178>c Collingwood b Mahmood</TD><TD class=xl31 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 38pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=50 x:num>8</TD><TD class=xl29 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 38pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=50 x:num>5</TD><TD class=xl29 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; 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BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 134pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=178>c Strauss b Mahmood</TD><TD class=xl31 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 38pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=50 x:num>9</TD><TD class=xl29 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 38pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=50 x:num>36</TD><TD class=xl29 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 38pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=50 x:num>18</TD><TD class=xl29 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 38pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=50 x:num>1</TD><TD class=xl29 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; 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BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 38pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=50 x:num>11</TD><TD class=xl29 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 38pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=50 x:num>1</TD><TD class=xl29 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 38pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=50 x:num>0</TD><TD class=xl27 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 38pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=50 x:num>63.63</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" height=17>Shakib Al Hasan (http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/wc2007/content/current/player/56143.html)</TD><TD class=xl34 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">not out</TD><TD class=xl35 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 38pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=50 x:num>57</TD><TD class=xl29 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 38pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=50 x:num>139</TD><TD class=xl29 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 38pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=50 x:num>95</TD><TD class=xl29 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 38pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=50 x:num>6</TD><TD class=xl29 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 38pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=50 x:num>1</TD><TD class=xl27 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 38pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=50 x:num>60</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" height=17>Mohammad Ashraful (http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/wc2007/content/current/player/55988.html)</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">c Nixon b Anderson</TD><TD class=xl31 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 38pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=50 x:num>1</TD><TD class=xl29 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 38pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=50 x:num>14</TD><TD class=xl29 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 38pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=50 x:num>6</TD><TD class=xl29 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 38pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=50 x:num>0</TD><TD class=xl29 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 38pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=50 x:num>0</TD><TD class=xl27 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 38pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=50 x:num>16.66</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" height=17>Aftab Ahmed (http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/wc2007/content/current/player/56266.html)</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">c Nixon b Anderson</TD><TD class=xl31 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 38pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=50 x:num>10</TD><TD class=xl29 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 38pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=50 x:num>12</TD><TD class=xl29 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 38pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=50 x:num>5</TD><TD class=xl29 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 38pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=50 x:num>1</TD><TD class=xl29 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 38pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=50 x:num>0</TD><TD class=xl27 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 38pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=50 x:num>200</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" height=17>Mashrafe Mortaza (http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/wc2007/content/current/player/56007.html)</TD><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 134pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=178>b Panesar</TD><TD class=xl31 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 38pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=50 x:num>13</TD><TD class=xl29 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 38pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=50 x:num>56</TD><TD class=xl29 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 38pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=50 x:num>43</TD><TD class=xl29 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 38pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=50 x:num>0</TD><TD class=xl29 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 38pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=50 x:num>0</TD><TD class=xl27 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 38pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=50 x:num>30.23</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" height=17>Mohammad Rafique (http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/wc2007/content/current/player/55973.html)</TD><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 134pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=178>c Strauss b Panesar</TD><TD class=xl31 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 38pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=50 x:num>0</TD><TD class=xl29 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 38pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=50 x:num>7</TD><TD class=xl29 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 38pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=50 x:num>4</TD><TD class=xl29 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 38pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=50 x:num>0</TD><TD class=xl29 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 38pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=50 x:num>0</TD><TD class=xl27 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 38pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=50 x:num>0</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" height=17>Abdur Razzak (http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/wc2007/content/current/player/56283.html)</TD><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 134pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=178>c Collingwood b Panesar</TD><TD class=xl31 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 38pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=50 x:num>15</TD><TD class=xl29 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 38pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=50 x:num>25</TD><TD class=xl29 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 38pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=50 x:num>17</TD><TD class=xl29 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 38pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=50 x:num>3</TD><TD class=xl29 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 38pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=50 x:num>0</TD><TD class=xl27 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 38pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=50 x:num>88.23</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" height=17>Syed Rasel (http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/wc2007/content/current/player/56160.html)</TD><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 134pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=178>c Flintoff b Mahmood</TD><TD class=xl31 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 38pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=50 x:num>4</TD><TD class=xl29 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 38pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=50 x:num>4</TD><TD class=xl29 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 38pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=50 x:num>2</TD><TD class=xl29 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 38pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=50 x:num>1</TD><TD class=xl29 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 38pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=50 x:num>0</TD><TD class=xl27 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 38pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=50 x:num>200</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl28 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" height=17> Extras</TD><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 134pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=178>(lb 3, w 10, nb 2)</TD><TD class=xl31 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 38pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=50 x:num>15</TD><TD class=xl29 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 38pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=50></TD><TD class=xl29 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 38pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=50></TD><TD class=xl29 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 38pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=50></TD><TD class=xl29 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 38pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=50></TD><TD class=xl27 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 38pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=50></TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 54pt; mso-height-source: userset" height=72><TD class=xl28 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; HEIGHT: 54pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" height=72> Total</TD><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 134pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=178>(all out; 37.2 overs; 175 mins)</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; WIDTH: 38pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" vAlign=top align=left width=50><?xml:namespace prefix = v ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" /><v:shapetype id=_x0000_t75 stroked="f" filled="f" path="m@4@5l@4@11@9@11@9@5xe" o:preferrelative="t" o:spt="75" coordsize="21600,21600"><v:stroke joinstyle="miter"></v:stroke><v:formulas><v:f eqn="if lineDrawn pixelLineWidth 0"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @0 1 0"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum 0 0 @1"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @2 1 2"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelWidth"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelHeight"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @0 0 1"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @6 1 2"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelWidth"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @8 21600 0"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelHeight"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @10 21600 0"></v:f></v:formulas><v:path o:connecttype="rect" gradientshapeok="t" o:extrusionok="f"></v:path><?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:lock aspectratio="t" v:ext="edit"></o:lock></v:shapetype><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=xl31 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 38pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; HEIGHT: 54pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=50 height=72 x:num>143</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD><TD class=xl29 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 38pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=50>(3.83 runs per over)</TD><TD class=xl29 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 38pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=50></TD><TD class=xl29 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 38pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=50></TD><TD class=xl29 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 38pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=50></TD><TD class=xl29 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 38pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=50></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

So what is wrong with score sheet? Not a single player contributed significantly. We played only 37.2 overs. England won 7 balls to spare. Had any another player scored 25 more runs we would have had a great chance to win the match. I guess he still wouldn't be a match winner to any of you cause like me you are all blind too. Just filter out what you want to see.

[sadi]

How could I miss this thread? :)

For me, Sakib is fighting for his spot (Sort of an allrounder spot) with Forhad and Riad at this moment. May the best man win. Sakib did his job before but now he has some tough competition going forward.

[Mohiul]

Tigers_eye got eagle's eye.

[Spitfire_x86]

So what is wrong with score sheet? Not a single player contributed significantly. We played only 37.2 overs. England won 7 balls to spare. Had any another player scored 25 more runs we would have had a great chance to win the match. I guess he still wouldn't be a match winner to any of you cause like me you are all blind too. Just filter out what you want to see.
If you want to bring in "potential match winning innings" into the table, I can find lot more for other players. Okay, in that England match others' batting failure prevented Sakib from being a match winner. Let's find similar cases for Ash/Aftab/Tamim, where Sakib and others' failure prevented them from being match winner.

Aftab's 59 goes in vain (http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/249742.html)
Tamim's 54 goes in vain (http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/293483.html)
Ashraful's 70 and Tamim's 50 goes in vain (http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/300426.html)
Tamim's 82 goes in vain (http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/323949.html)

In all those matches Sakib and many others scored in singled digits. I'm not sure what point you're actually trying to make. Nobody so far brought "could've/should've" in this thread before your post. And it's never all about stats, but also how a certain player bats. Is Sakib's stats unimpressive? Yes. Does his batting look unimpressive even for BD standards? Yes.

[Fazal]

I think he is kind of getting too comfy with his postion in the team like the 'Boro Bhaiyas' in the team. Thats not good. Because pretty soon in every possible slots there will be more competetion than ever before. Life (in our national team) will no longer be 'Baper Shompotti" any more. Too comfy sometimes makes a player too lazy to give his 100% effort. I hope all young players understant that things are different now. Nobody will get 100+ games to prove themselves any longer.

[Mohiul]

Apart from Tamim's 54 goes in vain (http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/293483.html), others don't fit into the criteria that was set by T_E. Because only that match against Srilanka was competitive.

[Tigers_eye]

Alrighty Spitty!! So now can we Tag Shakib as "potential match winner" instead of "never a match winner"? No?

The point is no BD player can single handedly win a match even though some of you label them. They need assistance of others. We as a fan do two things wrong:

1) Praise too much to the not worthy.

2) Degrade too much those who are much better.

Both are dependant on our dislike and likes.

Finally, personally I care less how impressive Ash's batting style is (Another A comes to my mind ;) ) or how unimpressive someone elses is. The out put should speak volumn.

You must not have liked Aftab's sedated 50 against NZ.

[Fazal]

Finally, personally I care less how impressive Ash's batting style is (Another A comes to my mind ;) ) or how unimpressive someone elses is. The out put should speak volumn.


Hmmm....
TE is talking like Fazal now a days. Only if he still had some hair in his head like Fazal.

[Tigers_eye]

Hmmm....
TE is talking like Fazal now a days. Only if he still had some hair in his head like Fazal.
We tend to hang on to the bad influences. :lol:

[Tigers_eye]

If you want to bring in "potential match winning innings" into the table, I can find lot more for other players. Okay, in that England match others' batting failure prevented Sakib from being a match winner. Let's find similar cases for Ash/Aftab/Tamim, where Sakib and others' failure prevented them from being match winner.
It is always the other teams faliure when the shoes don't fit. That shoe gets no credit. Ofcourse!! Why didn't I think of that?

And those examples you gave, we weren't in a winning position at any time. Those can't be potential match winnings knocks. All of them got out with plenty of overs left and inside the 1st 6 BD wickets. Even on the SL match. The Asking rate was over 7 already with 5 down 9.3 overs left (that is when Tamim got out).

[Spitfire_x86]

Alrighty Spitty!! So now can we Tag Shakib as "potential match winner" instead of "never a match winner"? No?
In terms of "potential", everyone in our team is only two steps away from being the next big thing in world cricket, as the optimistic ones among us consistently remind us :lol:

The point is no BD player can single handedly win a match even though some of you label them. They need assistance of others. We as a fan do two things wrong:

1) Praise too much to the not worthy.

2) Degrade too much those who are much better.

Both are dependant on our dislike and likes.
Agree about the #1, but can't agree about the #2. In the second case, we simply don't allow our personal likings to get in the way of judgment.

Finally, personally I care less how impressive Ash's batting style is (Another A comes to my mind ;) ) or how unimpressive someone elses is. The out put should speak volumn.
I'll gladly take Chanderpaul over Ash, but Sakib the batsman is clearly not that. When there is no substance to speak of, I'll go for style without substance.

[Tigers_eye]

I'll gladly take Chanderpaul over Ash, but Sakib the batsman is clearly not that.
Don't we all want to have a Chanderpaul in our team.

And you must be crazy to compare Chanderpaul to Shakib. One is 33+ years old with over 100 test and 200 ODIs under his belt with averages 47+ and 39+ respectively.
When there is no substance to speak of, I'll go for style without substance.
How do you measure substance? Strike Rate may be?

5 Fifty against Ind (2), SL, Eng, SA is not enough substance for you. out of 20 innings. 25%.

Let us see:
Ash: 9 50's and a 100 out of 68 matches. 16% counting that 100 as two. With all the experience, he has less percentage than Shakib? That's a shocker.

Aftab: 4 50's out 39 matches. You want me to do the math? 10.2%

SN: 2 50's out 24 matches. ???

I have no idea what your substance means but I see he performs more often than our stars and super stars. That is substance to me. (excluding minnow stats ofcourse)

[sadi]

Messing with the stat guru is not a good idea. ;)

[Foozy]

hmm.. interesting argument... im loving it from both sides...

im also loving the extensive amounts of competition that is coming into our team. This was very much needed!

[Spitfire_x86]

Don't we all want to have a Chanderpaul in our team.

And you must be crazy to compare Chanderpaul to Shakib. One is 33+ years old with over 100 test and 200 ODIs under his belt with averages 47+ and 39+ respectively.
I mean, it's definately not like Samuels (Ash/Aftab) vs Chanderpaul (Sakib) case. Statistically both of them suck.

How do you measure substance? Strike Rate may be?
Average + SR. And why is his average in the Ash/Aftab ballpark? It has to be his tendency to get out cheaply too often (single digits, < 20 scores)

(18 times dismissed)

Single digit: 50%
10 - 19: 22.2%
20-29: 11.1%

No 30+ scores, No 40+ scores.

These numbers shouldn't come as surprise to anyone who has seen him bat. Now am I supposed to believe a batsman who gets dismissed 72% times for below 20 score has enough "substance"? Even for Bangladeshi standards?

Here's the dismissal pattern for flashy, style over substance Aftab (37 times dismissed)

<pre>
0-9 16 43.24%
10-19 08 21.62%
20-30 3 8.11%
30-40 4 10.81%
40-49 2 5.41%
</pre>

His tendency to get dismissed for single digit and below 20 scores is slightly below Sakib's, but he is more than twice likely to score 20+. Most importantly, his SR is around 70%, opposed to Sakib's 55%.

[Tigers_eye]

I suspected your SR comeback hense already mentioned in the post before. Thanks for the new formula too. Average + SR. Let me help you a little. It would better serve your slendering purpose if you multiply. That may make the difference a little significant. Although the best for arguement would be just get rid of the average and hang on to SR.

So now susbstantial innings is no longer 50+? It is 30+, 40+ wow!! I learn new things every day!!

These faltu but creative formulas wouldn't help you to argue that Aftab has more substance than Shakib. Get something more concrete.

Facts are fact and Aftab only scored 4 50's out 39 and Shakib has already surpassed him with 5 50's in half the amount of games. And I know you would still say Shakib has no substance cause your mind is already made up!!

Now if you are trying to potray that Shakib is not consistant, I agree. I have no issue with that. Just like to add Aftab, Ash is neither.

[Spitfire_x86]

QUOTE me where I said Ash/Aftab delivers substantial scores far often than Sakib. And I dare say, 30-40 somethings are more substantial than pretty single digit scores.

No matter in how many ways you twist words, the fact remains that Sakib is a crappy batsman, and your inability to defend him without bringing Ash/Aftab et al. into the table only further confirms it. Heck, you even had to bring Kapali out of nowhere in your first post at this thread!

[Fazal]

Everything is subjective based on against which standard you are comparing. Now if the baseline is international standard, then ofcouse each and every BD batsman so far we have now falls into crapy category, that include sakib, ash, Aftab, alok, who ever you come up with. There is a difference though: there is still some hope in sakib and the young players and may be a little bit in aftab (based on what we have seen in SA tour before his injury).

Now if you compare sakib against what we have/had so far: He is no cappy batsman in Bangladeshi standard. Definitely he is already better than some of the superstar batsman we have interms of consistency and substance. and this is based on facts already presented by TE. I understand people may have personal preference about some player, but arguing without logic and changing the bar based on which player we are talking doesn't buy you much in my book.

[Tigers_eye]

QUOTE me where I said Ash/Aftab delivers substantial scores far often than Sakib.
Post 93, last sentences gives it all.

And I dare say, 30-40 somethings are more substantial than pretty single digit scores.
I am not in any disagreement on this one. but why would you take 30-40 over 50+?

No matter in how many ways you twist words, the fact remains that Sakib is a crappy batsman, and your inability to defend him without bringing Ash/Aftab et al. into the table only further confirms it. Heck, you even had to bring Kapali out of nowhere in your first post at this thread!
How I am suppose to defend him then? They are the standards and match winners. Aren't they?

[irteja]

[বাংলা]মিজান ভাইয়ের মন্তব্যে বিপ্লব[/বাংলা]

[Spitfire_x86]

Post 93, last sentences gives it all.

I am not in any disagreement on this one. but why would you take 30-40 over 50+?
Here's what I said.
When there is no substance to speak of, I'll go for style without substance
I think only one meaning can be made out of this sentence:

* None of our batsmen score big enough in regular basis
* My personal preference of flashier players over the inept ones, if the amount of runs scored is equal

And in the following post, I justified my personal preference. From only 50 count, Sakib seems to be better, but in reality 40 is only 20% less than 50. You provided the fifty count, I provided scoring pattern for below 50 scores to complete the picture and fill in the gray details. Mock me again if you want to, but SR of 70 is indeed far more useful than SR of 55.

[Kabir]

Haire...eikhane to dekhi jobbor maramari choltese.

Den Mijan bhai...Spitty re aro duita den :D
Just kidding :)

[HereWeGo]

As Sunny Gavaskar quoted "A genuine allrounder is one who can get into the team both purely as a bowler and as a batsmen" ex Botham, Flintoff may be Kapil Dev, jaques Kallis etc.
Now even if we look at the bangladesh perspective only, I still wont pick saqib in Bangladeshi team if he was a pure bowler or a pure batsmen. But combined he will always be in my team.
hence he is not really a genuine all rounder but an effective ODI player.

[Beamer]

Even the biggest of Sakib's fan won't be comfortable if he was promoted to bat at no.3, where Aftab usually operates. Only top quality batsman are handed that task. He goes there to cash in the PP infields with the license to clear the top of the infield. In doing so, he has got out often for the sake of the team RR and sometimes foolishly, but he perished doing what was asked of him. He, in the process has given us a good start in many games. Sakib just doesn't have Aftab's ability to do that task. Not too many does in our team. I am not sure why Tigers_eye bhai is comparing Aftab with Sakib. No one will send Sakib up at no.3, nor are the coaching staff comfortable with him at no.6, where Aftab can bat as well. Aftab is one of the few versatile batsman that we have in the line-up. You can send him anywhere in the order ( 3 to 6 ). Can you do that with Sakib? No. Its not his fault. He doesn't have that type of ability. So, comparing the two is a bit silly. Aftab has power and quality range of shots. Sakib doesn't. But, whatever Sakib is good at, so is Aftab i.e running between the wkts, taking singles and twos etc. Sakib has much cooler head than Aftab or Ash. But, he has to. He knows he can't get away with the stuff that Ash or Aftab can pull if he fails. He knows his limitation and I like him for that. I never questioned his character, only his batsmanship. He is just too limited for my liking ( and many many others ) to be a no.5 batsman.

No matter what we say about avg, SR, and they are important, but I tell you one thing: When the opposition usually gets ready to face us, they know which are the prized wkts and getting them early usually means game over for us. You see how they react whenever they get Ash and they game plan him. Ditto for Aftab. India was going nuts trying to find Tamim's game tape before our game against them in WC ( remember? ). I just don't have the feeling the same attention is given to Sakib's wkt and rightly so.

[cricket_king]

Beamer put it exactly as it is. No point in comparing Shakib's batting skills to the likes of Aftab or Ashraful, who are obviously miles ahead in terms of skill and range of shots. Anyone who has watched Shakib bat can immediately tell how poor a batsman he is. He plays some decent drives, but his foot work is oh so poor. It's nerve-racking watching him face a ball - not because he's an idiot like most of our batsmen and will throw his wicket away - but purely because he is just a very poor batsman, who seems more like a defensive tail-ender.

[layperson]

All this trash talk about saikb is because he has an unconventional batting style. He is very wristy even with shots that require a straight bat he uses his wrists a lot. He is strong square off the wicket and has a preference for that region against faster bowlers. All these make his batting look "wierd" I guess. However there should be no debate over his position in the team. He deserves it and has successfully held onto it simply through his performance. He is more than containing bowler in ODI's and his stats should prove it. As a batsmen also he is good at his job although I do not argue that his technique against balls that leave him and are outside the off stump is a bit sketchy. For now and based on his performance till date sakib is much better than the other bits and peices allrounder he is being compared to by others. For me he can get into the BD team purely as a batsman and purely as a bowler as well. Thus he is an allrounder in my eyes and definitely the best we have among the current lot of cricketers for ODI's.

[thebest]

spitty,
your logic is faulty in the sense that Affy/Ash has more 20+ score than Sakib. But the fact remain Sakib has more 50 than this two. There are lots of batsman who are poor starter (eg Yohanna) but that does not mean they are poor. But the problem is when they got the start, does they make it count? In that logic Aftab/ Ash failed while Sakib pass according to your stat. Only 28% time Sakib passes 20 and he converted it to 50. Compare that with Aftab and Ash; Countless time Aftab got out in 30s or for Ash it is 20s. 20s and 30s would not win you matches but 50 might. the diference between 20s and below 20 is the difference between 'sommanjonok Porajoy' and 'out played'. I would try to make a complete stat analysis on Sakib in near future to see both your and T_E side. But for the time being I am with T_E i.e. he is good enough batsman (BD standard) to be in the team as a batsman

[roaring tigerz]

So we all agree that Sakib has at least one essential ingredient of a batsman: temperament. This is something almost all the present bangladesh batsmen are missing. The result is underachievers like Ashraful who average in their 20s. This assault on Sakib is laughable at best when his performances are far better than most of our specialist batsmen. The trouble is that he maxes out his potential, whereas the others provide glimpses of their much vaunted 'talent.' Plain simple fact is that Sakib is more consistent than Ash, Aftab and Co. If you have an axe to grind against him my advise will be don't use numbers. Even with his dwindling form he continues to post better numbers than our perenially struggling top order.

I am sure we are all aware of the ODI average comparisons between Sakib and the rest of the gang. Just to refresh memories...

Shahriar Nafees: 36.22
Sakib: 32.71
Tamim: 27.14
Aftab: 26.33
Ashraful: 22.46

These numbers are more an indictment of our other batsmen than a defense of Sakib. But he does score more runs, more often than the top four...even though he has less opportunities to settle down and build an innings. In our batting line up replete with non-performers singling out Sakib is akin to a sin.

[roaring tigerz]

As Sunny Gavaskar quoted "A genuine allrounder is one who can get into the team both purely as a bowler and as a batsmen" ex Botham, Flintoff may be Kapil Dev, jaques Kallis etc.
Now even if we look at the bangladesh perspective only, I still wont pick saqib in Bangladeshi team if he was a pure bowler or a pure batsmen. But combined he will always be in my team.
hence he is not really a genuine all rounder but an effective ODI player.

really? but our selectors thought he was good enough to play him in tests as a specialist bowler. and he came into the ODi scene because of his batting capabilities more than anything else. A batting average of 32 and a bowling economy rate of 4, does him a pure all-rounder, whatever yardstick you use to measure it.

[Sohel]

I like batsmen who make it a point to play through the line of delivery, play with a straight bat, and middle their shots in the V.

Yet I'm an unabashed fan of MaMi.

Why?

I had the chance to meet this remarkable young man from Magura when he and Forhad were brought into the fold together. I was impressed by his passion AND thoughtful approach towards the game, the latter being highly unusual for such a young cricketer.

I felt we were lucky to have such a cat in our midst - alongside GoBoy with his more orthodox approach with the bat - and STILL feel that way today.

He is going through a "down-cycle" with the bat after initial success like all of our young cricketers, and his extraordinary maturity will help him claw out of this funk SOONER than we think Inshallah.

It is precisely that maturity, coupled with his overall "thinking man's" pragmatic approach that enable him to get away with his kodal and jharhu shots and get good runs by our rather shabby standards. Being benched for the entire series in Pakistan may just be the tough love he needs to get hungry again and re-focus. When he does come back, he should bat at number 7 and perform his way up from there.

On a side note, EVERY time I try to play the kodal or jharhu aginst my cousins, I drag the ball back on to my off-stump and get LBW-ed respectively. I suck, but still it takes immeasurable talent to play those ugly shots with success and hats off to MaMi for playing them more effectively than anyone I've seen.

Our Magura Miandad is a unique player IMHO, not a 2.0 version of anybody, and his active rest in Pakistan will afford him the privilege of learning how to bat a bit more cleanly from Miandad Sr. He needs to middle it more than does, and he knows it.

I see him, alongside our other players, coming into his best years from his late 20s to mid 30s Inshallah, and I won't be surprised if he racks up more 50s than most of his colleagues by the time he retires DESPITE his unorthodox to downright ugly batting.

MaMi is not at all an all-rounder by International standards, especially in light of his recent batting, but by Deshi (sub) standards ? I reckon so !

He is an excellent fielder, and a smart and effective ODI SLA who can bat a bit. He is also 21 and I firmly believe his thoughtful approach towards the game will continue to surprise us batting fundies with runs, and lots of it in the future ... :)

[Tigers_eye]

Excellent post Sohel bhai (one more time, as usual!!).

Someone just by following past few years know that how important Aftab and Ash are for our cricket. There is no denying of that. They are entering at a stage where they should be producing mind boggling numbers (in BD's contest). They are experienced enough, old enough, certainly seen enough of International Cricket.

The only reason I started to reply in this thread is:
1) Shakib will never be a match winner plus the shockwave adjectives. (Certainly, we all will see in the near future what unfolds!!)

2) Shakib is not a batsman (yet he has more 50+ scores than the recognized batsman Aftab, percentage wise better than Ash, SN). I only pray he becomes a batsman. Batsman na hoiye ei obostha. batsman hoiley ki korbey just imagine.

3) Shakib has no substance. (see comment above in the bracket)

and now:
4) Shakib is inept. (grrr!!!)

For Spitty:
Thank you for explaining that none of the batsmen we have has no substance. I thought when you were bringing in stats of Aftab's 30's and 40's, you were trying to potray him as the one who has substance. So if you say Aftab, Shakib, Ash has no substance I will hands down agree with you (I have seen enough international cricket to justify that statement).

My personal preference of flashier players over the inept ones, if the amount of runs scored is equal
My personal preference is those who can score big against the big boys more often than not. Getting starts and not converting is not my cup of tea. Be it using kodal techic, or "dau kop" - Meaning as unimpressive as it can be, doesn't matter, as long as he scores big. :) ( and some of you say he can't invent shot, not creative enough!! hahaha!!!)
We have difference of opinion. I am at peace with you.
Salaam.

Sorry to disappoint Fazil Kabir from "o, canada"!!

[Sohel]

Cough, cough.

Spitty, Razab and my beloved twin Beamer, I LOVE YOU MORE THAN MaMi, but please get used to this sort of "fluke" from this boy ... :-*

That said, as a good ODI SLA who can bat a bit, he should bat @ 7 or below ... peace ... :)

[Spitfire_x86]

I certainly won't mind if these "flukes" keep happening more often :)

[Beamer]

Admired the way he played today. Who knows what would have happened had he stayed around to score the well deserved 100. Good job Sakib. Played like a no.5 today. This was probably the most impressive he has ever played, or , at least in my eyes, for whatever that is worth.

[Dhurr]

I think he is kind of getting too comfy with his postion in the team like the 'Boro Bhaiyas' in the team. Thats not good. Because pretty soon in every possible slots there will be more competetion than ever before. Life (in our national team) will no longer be 'Baper Shompotti" any more. Too comfy sometimes makes a player too lazy to give his 100% effort. I hope all young players understant that things are different now. Nobody will get 100+ games to prove themselves any longer.


I agree with Fazal again, and I hope his last statement turns out to be true sooner rather than later.

[arafath79]

I think he is kind of getting too comfy with his postion in the team like the 'Boro Bhaiyas' in the team. Thats not good. Because pretty soon in every possible slots there will be more competetion than ever before. Life (in our national team) will no longer be 'Baper Shompotti" any more. Too comfy sometimes makes a player too lazy to give his 100% effort. I hope all young players understant that things are different now. Nobody will get 100+ games to prove themselves any longer.

Then Ashraful should be the first player who would get kicked out of the team. :)

[Fazal]

Then Ashraful should be the first player who would get kicked out of the team. :)


You got it. But you will not. And i think you also know why it... he have style. 'style' dhuyee aroo 100+ games pani khabe.

[Kabir]

I was lucky to catch part of his innings yesterday...that as well on a BIG screen.

Loved the innings. Him and Riyad had superb understanding...and I just LOVED the way they took singles. Kind of paced up the SR with only singles.

Personally, I think he should remain where he is ATM, and only be brought down if we can find someone who can bat better than him in that position. His single-taking abilities with little aggression makes him an idea choice for #5.

[ahaque]

riyad needs to work on his bowling...shakib was great!

[Sohel]

Too many "flukes" = NO "fluke" at all !

Messing with our MaMi = BAD idea ... :floor:

[Nafi]

So what is his allrounder rating now??

[RazabQ]

Ahoy Sohel, I never said Shakib was fluky. Go and reread my posts if you like! I said he needed to bat earlier in ODIs or not be treated as a batter at all. Both of his recent big innings have come when he got to bat during the power plays. I think that kinda reiterates my point. Having said that, the mental fortitude he displayed today - I bow to his cojones!

[Sohel]

Ahoy Sohel, I never said Shakib was fluky. Go and reread my posts if you like! I said he needed to bat earlier in ODIs or not be treated as a batter at all. Both of his recent big innings have come when he got to bat during the power plays. I think that kinda reiterates my point. Having said that, the mental fortitude he displayed today - I bow to his cojones!

Never said you did bro ... :)

In fact, I found most of your and my twin's technical observations to be spot on as I ALWAYS do.

Yawl just didn't consider the "X-factor", meaning the strange combination of his cricketing intelligence and integrity (once you meet him), raw hand-eye coordination, and the deceptively humble, but ultimately freakish hunger to work hard and have the courage to succeed that way. He REFUSES to stay down no matter how many times he's knocked down.

Character is the word and that's why I believe he'll suceed more often than he'll fail, Inshallah.

Today he reached another level and became a #5 for the first time in my eyes, despite some of the ungangly stuff during the course of this water-shed 100.

Sorry about the misunderstanding.

[shamster]

I have been waiting for him to appear in the ODI all rounders chart, hopefully soon he well !

[bsmd]

Saqibul Hasan Batting ODI Ranking Statistics:

http://www.lgiccrankings.com/odi/batting/player-display.php?id=6740

[Fortuner]

Never said you did bro ... :)

In fact, I found most of your and my twin's technical observations to be spot on as I ALWAYS do.

Yawl just didn't consider the "X-factor", meaning the strange combination of his cricketing intelligence and integrity (once you meet him), raw hand-eye coordination, and the deceptively humble, but ultimately freakish hunger to work hard and have the courage to succeed that way. He REFUSES to stay down no matter how many times he's knocked down.

Character is the word and that's why I believe he'll suceed more often than he'll fail, Inshallah.

Today he reached another level and became a #5 for the first time in my eyes, despite some of the ungangly stuff during the course of this water-shed 100.

Sorry about the misunderstanding.
sohel bhai,
dnt u think u use to underrate shakib
coz i remember u dint like shakib;s jaru and kodal shots :D
actually, i like d way u describe bout evry playr n blv me even i agreed wid wht u said bout shakib
bt 2day 's centry of moyna made me realise, he has got more talent.he is a gud middle order batsman.unlike many oda bd batsman, he can rotate the strike and keep the scoreboard ticking wid his singles
one thing i yet dont like in shakib;s batting is tht he still cuts deliveries vry close to his body.jst 1 flaw i see in him.

[AsifTheManRahman]

I've always supported the idea of playing Shakib at #5 for ODI's - he might have an ugly, ugly front-foot technique (his technique's mostly back-foot based) and his sweeps and cuts may be no more than jharus and kodals, but he does what a #5 should do - rotate and build. I wouldn't move him from here (I believe he could even be a better #4 than Ashraful - yeah, I'm discounting the "talent factor").

[Rumz_01]

I like sakib, he a kool player.. allrounder? like all our players needs work.. bu i like him!!

[Fazal]

what do you mean? He has already a bhury ?

[Ishtylish cricketer]

I will admitt I have always underestimated his ability and capacity to score. Unlike the talented batsmen of our team this guy actually utilizes every inch of his ability. Really happy to be wrong about this guy. Just wish the result had been closer.

[Sohel]

sohel bhai,
dnt u think u use to underrate shakib
coz i remember u dint like shakib;s jaru and kodal shots :D
actually, i like d way u describe bout evry playr n blv me even i agreed wid wht u said bout shakib
bt 2day 's centry of moyna made me realise, he has got more talent.he is a gud middle order batsman.unlike many oda bd batsman, he can rotate the strike and keep the scoreboard ticking wid his singles
one thing i yet dont like in shakib;s batting is tht he still cuts deliveries vry close to his body.jst 1 flaw i see in him.

Bro,

I'm not going to subject anyone to reading all of my posts about MaMi here in BC, but if anyone cares to indulge him or herself with that kind of torture, a couple of things should be consistently clear.

As the name Magura Miandad suggests, I always found his batting, especially the jharhu and the kodal shots amusing and rather ugly to look at but effective simply because of his obviously great hand-eye coordination, save the rarer lofted on drives and nicely played late cut here and there.

His intelligent ability to correctly anticiapate deliveries, perhaps more often than not, also aid him in his uncanny ability to beat the odds IMHO.

His customary wild swats and outside off-stump and hoiks across the line are also rather dangerous for a number 5 if you ask me. Number 5 is a critical position where the batsman needs to build his innings and stay until the very end to see it through.

I thought #7 was more suited to his "style" of play. I thought luck will eventually run out and I thought a time would come when he will no longer get away with those swipes and kodal shots outside off, or miss a jharhu shot to get himself LBW-ed !

I also thought he needed to be benched after a LONG string 15 and under scores, NOT DROPPED, for his own good. We all need a break to get hungry again. He made it tough, if not impossible, on account of his tight and effective ODI bowling, especially in light of Razzak's recent form.

He worked it out all by himself and delivered when some of the other, more glamorous boys faltered.

Until the day's watershed 100 from him under the most difficult of circumstances, I didn't think he had it in him at this point, technically as a batsman. Much my delight, he built a wondrful innings by taking 1s and 2s in the V or close to it. He also didn't hurry his game after passing the 50 mark.

Mentally, I know just how tough and courageous he can be, and have known that ever since I met him when both he and Farhad was brought into the national fold together. During the course of our conversation that day, I was blown away by the soundness of his cricketing intelligence and his controlled passion for the game. I have been a fan. Anyone who meets him knows that about this wonderfully calm and pleasantly humble young man who thinks DEEPLY about the game he loves and studies. Very well brought up indeed.

Today he surprised me and ALL THE POWER TO HIM. I pray to GOD that he is able to sustain this sort of success unlike many of teammates. I have a strong feeling that he might do just that, thanks in no small part to his mental fortitude, and suceed a lot more often than he's likely to fail Inshallah.

He is a "freak of nature", a deeply affectionate term for me, and we are more than fortunate to have him.

I hope this clarifies my "position" a bit more for you.

Constructive criticism accompanied by positive reinforcement is an expression of love my brother, simply because I'd like to see MaMi be the best can be. So, being "critical" of him does not mean I'm less fond of who he is.

Perhaps once you have close relationships with adults younger than you, assuming you don't yet being a young adult yourself, you'll know what I mean.

Peace, Sohel ... :)

[Trigger_Tiger]

I've always supported the idea of playing Shakib at #5 for ODI's - he might have an ugly, ugly front-foot technique (his technique's mostly back-foot based) and his sweeps and cuts may be no more than jharus and kodals, but he does what a #5 should do - rotate and build. I wouldn't move him from here (I believe he could even be a better #4 than Ashraful - yeah, I'm discounting the "talent factor").


Pretty much Chanderpaul'ish in nature, and I just love it :)!

[Kabir]

Actually, I'll keep Sakib exactly where he is right now. Moving him up will open him up to the pacers...while moving him down doesn't make sense given his ability to rotate the strike in the middle overs.

For #4, I'ld rather put someone dependable. May be SN. I'ld move Ash to #6/7...and let him focus on his BS there. If he can give us anything late in the order, we'll take that as a bonus.

[Mohiul]

<TABLE class=top100table cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0><TBODY><TR><TH class=top100id title=Ranking>ID</TH><TH class=top100rating title=Rating>Rat.</TH><TH class=top100name title=Name>Name</TH><TH class=top100nation title=Nationality>Nat.</TH><TH class=top100cbr title="Carer Best Rating">Career Best Rating</TH></TR><TR><TD class=top100id title=Ranking>1</TD><TD class=top100rating title=Rating>383</TD><TD class=top100name title=Name>J.D.P. Oram (http://www.iccreliancerankings.com/playerdisplay/odi/all-rounder/?id=6324)</TD><TD class=top100nation title=NZ>http://www.iccreliancerankings.com/images/flag/flags_nz.jpg</TD><TD class=top100cbr title="Career Best Rating">383 v Bangladesh, 14/10/2008</TD></TR><TR><TD class=top100id title=Ranking>2</TD><TD class=top100rating title=Rating>364</TD><TD class=top100name title=Name>A. Flintoff (http://www.iccreliancerankings.com/playerdisplay/odi/all-rounder/?id=2230)</TD><TD class=top100nation title=ENG>http://www.iccreliancerankings.com/images/flag/flags_eng.jpg</TD><TD class=top100cbr title="Career Best Rating">544 v Sri Lanka, 18/09/2004</TD></TR><TR><TD class=top100id title=Ranking>3</TD><TD class=top100rating title=Rating>342</TD><TD class=top100name title=Name>Shoaib Malik (http://www.iccreliancerankings.com/playerdisplay/odi/all-rounder/?id=6264)</TD><TD class=top100nation title=PAK>http://www.iccreliancerankings.com/images/flag/flags_pak.jpg</TD><TD class=top100cbr title="Career Best Rating">402 v West Indies, 19/01/2005</TD></TR><TR><TD class=top100id title=Ranking>3</TD><TD class=top100rating title=Rating>342</TD><TD class=top100name title=Name>C.H. Gayle (http://www.iccreliancerankings.com/playerdisplay/odi/all-rounder/?id=2303)</TD><TD class=top100nation title=WI>http://www.iccreliancerankings.com/images/flag/flags_wi.jpg</TD><TD class=top100cbr title="Career Best Rating">511 v Zimbabwe, 30/11/2003</TD></TR><TR><TD class=top100id title=Ranking>5</TD><TD class=top100rating title=Rating>327</TD><TD class=top100name title=Name>J.H. Kallis (http://www.iccreliancerankings.com/playerdisplay/odi/all-rounder/?id=2125)</TD><TD class=top100nation title=SA>http://www.iccreliancerankings.com/images/flag/flags_sa.jpg</TD><TD class=top100cbr title="Career Best Rating">505 v West Indies, 09/05/2001</TD></TR><TR><TD class=top100id title=Ranking>6</TD><TD class=top100rating title=Rating>323</TD><TD class=top100name title=Name>Shahid Afridi (http://www.iccreliancerankings.com/playerdisplay/odi/all-rounder/?id=2237)</TD><TD class=top100nation title=PAK>http://www.iccreliancerankings.com/images/flag/flags_pak.jpg</TD><TD class=top100cbr title="Career Best Rating">360 v Bangladesh, 08/06/2008</TD></TR><TR><TD class=top100id title=Ranking>7</TD><TD class=top100rating title=Rating>313</TD><TD class=top100name title=Name>S.T. Jayasuriya (http://www.iccreliancerankings.com/playerdisplay/odi/all-rounder/?id=1960)</TD><TD class=top100nation title=SL>http://www.iccreliancerankings.com/images/flag/flags_sl.jpg</TD><TD class=top100cbr title="Career Best Rating">463 v Pakistan, 05/11/1997</TD></TR><TR><TD class=top100id title=Ranking>8</TD><TD class=top100rating title=Rating>304</TD><TD class=top100name title=Name>Yuvraj Singh (http://www.iccreliancerankings.com/playerdisplay/odi/all-rounder/?id=6310)</TD><TD class=top100nation title=IND>http://www.iccreliancerankings.com/images/flag/flags_ind.jpg</TD><TD class=top100cbr title="Career Best Rating">304 v England, 17/11/2008</TD></TR><TR><TD class=top100id title=Ranking>9</TD><TD class=top100rating title=Rating>301</TD><TD class=top100name title=Name>Shakib Al Hasan (http://www.iccreliancerankings.com/playerdisplay/odi/all-rounder/?id=6740)</TD><TD class=top100nation title=BAN>http://www.iccreliancerankings.com/images/flag/flags_ban.jpg</TD><TD class=top100cbr title="Career Best Rating">311 v South Africa, 07/11/2008</TD></TR><TR><TD class=top100id title=Ranking>10</TD><TD class=top100rating title=Rating>293</TD><TD class=top100name title=Name>P.D. Collingwood (http://www.iccreliancerankings.com/playerdisplay/odi/all-rounder/?id=6350)</TD><TD class=top100nation title=ENG>http://www.iccreliancerankings.com/images/flag/flags_eng.jpg</TD><TD class=top100cbr title="Career Best Rating">330 v New Zealand, 21/06/2008</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[Mohiul]

Saqibul Hasan

<TABLE id=pswrapper cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0><TBODY><TR><TD>http://www.iccreliancerankings.com/images/players/icc_main.gif
</TD><TD>Current Test Rating
Current Test Ranking
Highest Rating
Highest Ranking
Date of Birth
Test Debut
Last Test Match
Batting Style
Bowling Style

</TD><TD>> 93
> 26
> 93 - ( 19/11/2008 )
> 25 - ( 19/11/2008 )
> 24/03/1987
> 18/05/2007
> 19/11/2008
> LHB
> LMF

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[Eshen]

Shakib's current Test bowling average and strike rate (32.71 & 75.1) are better than those of Rafique (40.76 & 87.4) !

[simon]

We are really lucky to have some1 like SAkib.
He rocks.

[al Furqaan]

Shakib's current Test bowling average and strike rate (32.71 & 75.1) are better than those of Rafique (40.76 & 87.4) !

not a good comparison since, rafique, for the vast majority of his career, averaged 35 or less, and strike rate was better too.

for about half of his career, rafique averaged right around 30...took his first 30 wickets at less than 30 apiece. that was class. sadly age and possibly bashar's captaincy ruined those figures in the last 5-6 tests of his career.

[Eshen]

not a good comparison since, rafique, for the vast majority of his career, averaged 35 or less, and strike rate was better too.

for about half of his career, rafique averaged right around 30...took his first 30 wickets at less than 30 apiece. that was class. sadly age and possibly bashar's captaincy ruined those figures in the last 5-6 tests of his career.
Yes, until 2006, Rafique had better average and strike rate (statsguru (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/player/55973.html?class=1;spanmax1=31+May+2006;spanval1=s pan;template=results;type=bowling;view=innings)), but Shakib's current average and sr are still better.

[Zeeshan]

what do you mean? He has already a bhury ?

by that account...i am a better all rounder :wave:

[nadim 98]

saqib is the best allrounder in the world.....go saqib

[auntu]

[বাংলা]ধন্যবাদ সাকিব অসাধারন পারফরম্যান্স।[/বাংলা]

[auntu]

http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/db/PICTURES/CMS/96400/96463.jpg

[বাংলা]গুড বোলিং। আরেকটি উইকেট। [/বাংলা]

[auntu]

http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/db/PICTURES/CMS/96400/96462.jpg

[বাংলা]ক্যালিসের ডিফেন্স ভেদ করে[/বাংলা]

[Dhrubo]

I dont want to get carried away with his performances, I hope he keeps on improving his bowling.

[Ajfar]

2 things that i feel puts him a class above everybody else in our team....the willingness and the determination to learn and improve...

[Shoikoth]

Shakib, bcoz of his all rounder tag, is under less pressure than our specialized players. I think that help him a lot.

i hope he does good against tims like india and pakistan 2.

[Sovik]

Shakib, bcoz of his all rounder tag, is under less pressure than our specialized players. I think that help him a lot.

i hope he does good against tims like india and pakistan 2.

he's not any less under pressure than anyone else.

[auntu]

Great show again by Sakib. Congrats man.

[Niv]

Shakib appears to be the only player in our side with anything between his ears XD

[al Furqaan]

soccer20, please curse the other 10 guys on our team (and some other fringe players too)!

[Mohiul]

read this article in bdnews24.com (http://bdnews24.com/bangla/details.php?id=39241&cid=5)

[AsifTheManRahman]

This guy's turning out to be quite a beast. It will be interesting to see how he fares against batsmen who actually know how to play spin. Sri Lanka, beware of getting a taste of your own medicine next month.

[Miraz]

He is turning out to be our main bowler and forgetting how to bat. If the trend continues we will get a very worthy replacement of Rafique for a long term, but will lose a decent batsman.

[soccer20reverse]

Comeon guys, I havent cursed him. He's become a great player now, but... will it last is always the question.

[AsifTheManRahman]

He is turning out to be our main bowler and forgetting how to bat. If the trend continues we will get a very worthy replacement of Rafique for a long term, but will lose a decent batsman.Well he did get a 70 against New Zealand recently, but a couple of more of those would be nice. Otherwise, we'll have to rely on the seven other so-called batsmen that we have in the team.

[mahbubH]

I am bit surprised with the success Shak is getting as bowler... I thought he is a batsman who can bowl a bit.... I must change my opinion on him, he is better bowler than I thought (it is not easy to get 3 five fer in last 4 tests). Good luck Shak.

[nadim 98]

it is a dream for any country to get an allarounder like sakib-AL-hassan

[mijanur]

is he gonna move up the test ranking
and how many test wikets has he taken
i fink before new zealnd out of 12 match he took 7 wiktes

[Rifat]

He is turning out to be our main bowler and forgetting how to bat. If the trend continues we will get a very worthy replacement of Rafique for a long term, but will lose a decent batsman.

i don't think he has forgotten how to bat, rather he is just demoted down the order, and currently, after taking mutivariable calculus over the summer(getting 3.9 GPA) he studied cricket calculus on how and where to turn the ball and applied it perfectly :)

batting? he will deliver in dire times, no worries. consistency may remian a worry though

[Ajfar]

He is turning out to be our main bowler and forgetting how to bat. If the trend continues we will get a very worthy replacement of Rafique for a long term, but will lose a decent batsman.

miraz bhai i don't know if you watched his batting in the first innings or not.. i mean frm the scorecard it seems like he played a T20 innings.. 30 runs from 27 balls..but he luked real gud out there..i just wish he had paced his innings nicely....when he came in he didn't let the fack that he's a new batsman n give the bowlers any chance to build pressure..he started taking singles n rotating the strikes..n played sum gorgeous shots off of steyn n morkel..siddon's work will payoff..but it will take a while

[Shaan]

to me at this moment he looks better bowler rather batsman, he can be our one of the main bowler/spinner, and batting would be bonus for us. Sealing someone world class allrounder from Bangladesh side is to early to judge. Sakib is promising alrounder for Bd no doubt about that, but still years to come he mature up and makes consistance contribution to the team then probably will be the time to level him whether he is world class alrounder or not, but for Bangladesh he difinately is a gnuine alrounder, what we recently discovered or let say Sakib discovered himself, so credits to Sakib, way to go Shakib.

[MohammedC]

to me at this moment he looks better bowler rather batsman, he can be our one of the main bowler/spinner, and batting would be bonus for us. Sealing someone world class allrounder from Bangladesh side is to early to judge. Sakib is promising alrounder for Bd no doubt about that, but still years to come he mature up and makes consistance contribution to the team then probably will be the time to level him whether he is world class alrounder or not, but for Bangladesh he difinately is a gnuine alrounder, what we recently discovered or let say Sakib discovered himself, so credits to Sakib, way to go Shakib.

Very good observations. Sakib is definitely good at all department but at this moment of time his style of batting is not suited for test cricket. He is trying to cut too many shots which is bring him down, he is also trying to score runs too quickly. He has to find a way to stay in the crease a bit longer (all BD batsmen should find a way). But in ODI he should be given the freedom to play his shot.

[Orion]

I am really impressed by Saqib's dramatic improvement in bowling. When he made his debut about a little more than a year ago....he was a talented batsman and a part time spinner to check the runs and aid the specialist bowlers in ODIs. Its actually exciting that his bowling is not only economical and wicket worthy in ODIs but he is turning into a test specialist day by day with already 3 five wicket hauls in the last three tests he played and especially in the green tops in South Africa. His batting right now is more suited for the shorter version and he needs to work and tighten his technique to become a better test batsman and I am sure he is already working on it. The most exciting fact is that he is only 21 and has cool and collected head which will aid him in the future years and I am sure he will turn out to be one of the best allrounders in the future just like many predicted during his U-19 days.

[Mohiul]

Mashaallah, He is now # 8 all-rounder in odi & # 17 all-rounder in test. Alhamdulillah, He's only climbing up

[nadim 98]

sakib is the man,who got a brain in BD team...every1 just sucks..

BTW tamim is becoming our Inzamam-ul-haq.getting runout or involving with runout.

looklike mehrab jr wants to play IPL, na hoily idaning ato shot khele keno?

[Murad]

Mashaallah, He is now # 8 all-rounder in odi & # 17 all-rounder in test. Alhamdulillah, He's only climbing up

He is currently no.10 allrounder in Test.

[nadim 98]

He is currently no.10 allrounder in Test.

is it? i though he is now 14th in test

[simon]

no.10 in test.
Alhamdulillah.

[nadim 98]

sakib u beauty........10th allrounder in both test and ODI......proud of him..really fantastic to see how sakib is doing........keep going son

[Murad]

is it? i though he is now 14th in test

<TABLE id=pswrapper cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0><TBODY><TR><TD>Current Test Rating
Current Test Ranking
Highest Rating
Highest Ranking
Date of Birth
Test Debut
Last Test Match
Batting Style
Bowling Style

</TD><TD>> 196
> 10
> 196 - ( 03/01/2009 )
> 10 - ( 03/01/2009 )
> 24/03/1987
> 18/05/2007
> 03/01/2009
> LHB
> LMF

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

http://www.iccreliancerankings.com/playerdisplay/test/all-rounder/?id=6740&graph=rating

He is on 10th along with Virender Sehwag.

[nadim 98]

<TABLE id=pswrapper cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0><TBODY><TR><TD>Current Test Rating
Current Test Ranking
Highest Rating
Highest Ranking
Date of Birth
Test Debut
Last Test Match
Batting Style
Bowling Style

</TD><TD>> 196
> 10
> 196 - ( 03/01/2009 )
> 10 - ( 03/01/2009 )
> 24/03/1987
> 18/05/2007
> 03/01/2009
> LHB
> LMF

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

http://www.iccreliancerankings.com/playerdisplay/test/all-rounder/?id=6740&graph=rating

He is on 10th along with Virender Sehwag.

awesomeeeeeeeeeeee player.........

[mijanur]

watch how he will mature more. in todays match he got 3 wickets and 50 runs which is outstaning, anywaz naeem islam will also be top class player

[Shaan]

nice Interview of Shakib from today's prothom-alo: http://prothom-alo.com/fcat.news.details.php?issuedate=2009-01-11&fid=Ng==&nid=MzQxMDI=

[Rifat]

nice Interview of Shakib from today's prothom-alo: http://prothom-alo.com/fcat.news.details.php?issuedate=2009-01-11&fid=Ng==&nid=MzQxMDI=

bangla reading not really clear.

[nycpro96]

i think its time to bring this thread to life
all hail al shakib al hasan
BEST ALLROUNDER IN THE WORLD

[Rifat]

i don't think he has forgotten how to bat, rather he is just demoted down the order, and currently, after taking mutivariable calculus over the summer(getting 3.9 GPA) he studied cricket calculus on how and where to turn the ball and applied it perfectly :)

batting? he will deliver in dire times, no worries. consistency may remian a worry though

alhamdulillah, since March 2008 about 90% of what i said in this forum about players/ Bangladesh cricket is accurate!

he DID deliver in dire times... 11/3 - 152/5 14th January Bangladesh versus Sri Lanka Tri Series... :)

[al Furqaan]

If you want to bring in "potential match winning innings" into the table, I can find lot more for other players. Okay, in that England match others' batting failure prevented Sakib from being a match winner. Let's find similar cases for Ash/Aftab/Tamim, where Sakib and others' failure prevented them from being match winner.

Aftab's 59 goes in vain (http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/249742.html)
Tamim's 54 goes in vain (http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/293483.html)
Ashraful's 70 and Tamim's 50 goes in vain (http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/300426.html)
Tamim's 82 goes in vain (http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/323949.html)

In all those matches Sakib and many others scored in singled digits. I'm not sure what point you're actually trying to make. Nobody so far brought "could've/should've" in this thread before your post. And it's never all about stats, but also how a certain player bats. Is Sakib's stats unimpressive? Yes. Does his batting look unimpressive even for BD standards? Yes.


egg on your face!

:big_hug:

[Spitfire_x86]

egg on your face!

:big_hug:
I don't think so (http://banglacricket.com/alochona/showpost.php?p=679691&postcount=83) :)

[al Furqaan]

I don't think so (http://banglacricket.com/alochona/showpost.php?p=679691&postcount=83) :)

well then, egg on my face.

:hairpull: