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View Full Version : "I came here thinking we might lose 5-0"- Siddons


Murad
April 21, 2008, 01:07 PM
Whether he expected such a one-sided series

"Realistically I came here thinking we might lose 5-0. You guys might think that is negative thinking but I think it is realistic. I know where we stand, where we are and where we need to get."

TigerCricket (http://www.tigercricket.com/viewNews.aspx?newsID=544)

No wonder why our players are so weak and confused in the field.

If their coach thinks something like this, what would the players do? He sends the players to the field for a hororable defeat. Not for a WIN. As he already know that we will lose. We used to do that around 2/3 years before and we are still doing that. :sigh:

If the coach is that weak minded, then what can we expect from our players? They will become more weaker than they used to be.

A coach have to be a strong minded else he won't be able to motivate his players. If he's a weak minded, his players will never progress further.

I didn't like Dav Whatmore but I think he was a much better coach than Siddons. Siddons is not good enough to be a head coach. He is an excellent batting coach.

AsifTheManRahman
April 21, 2008, 01:20 PM
He speaks the truth, and I like being realistic.

But being realistic doesn't work on these players, who are obviously low in confidence and have no clue what the hell international cricket is about. Conclusion: Siddons should try to understand the players better, and our players should toughen up a bit.

Tigers_eye
April 21, 2008, 01:31 PM
DW said few things that we didn't like. You all know that.

GG said few things that BCB didn't like.

Amarnath said few things that no-one liked.

Trevor said few things that we didn't like.

Mohsin Kamal did few things (didn't actually) that we didn't like.

++++

As long as Siddons have a plan, has a time-line, has a focus, and can show tid bit improvements along the way, I am happy. He also needs to know that he doesn't know everything and there are cultural and other barriers that he needs to overcome. Both ways need to be open minded and ready for small changes that would make the transition period better. The only advice I have is keep open communication with BCB, selectors, players, specially captain. The last two are the ones need him the most.

Stay away from the Media as much as possible coach.

Murad
April 21, 2008, 01:32 PM
The authority should find the answers where the problems actually lie. But apparently it appears that the 'friendly' attitude of the mentors towards their charges simply backfired on the team.

The players started to feel the comfort once Shaun Williams, the national game development manager, was given the job of the national team in the tour of Sri Lanka in June-July last year after the departure of Dav Whatmore. And his presence only helped the boys to find 'positives' even from the worst possible performance and this kind of attitude has continued even under Jamie Siddons.

Being positive is a good approach but it doesn't necessarily mean that you try to find positives in everything, especially from the performance in Pakistan last week.

It only helps you do even worse in the next assignment.

What many believe is that Bangladesh cricket team has been missing a hard task-master like Whatmore because no one is now worried after he gives away his wicket or fumbles in the field.

There might be a debate on the role of a coach in cricket but for Bangladesh, it is as important as having a captain out in the middle.

Just one example can be good enough to understand the importance of a coach. During Whatmore's reign, the national players once believed that they have the ability to turn the table on any team on their day. But now they have started to believe that these recent performances are what they actually are capable of.

So time has come for the authority to reassess everything before things get out of control. Our goal, the 2011 World Cup, is not too far away.

Negatively Postive (http://www.thedailystar.net/story.php?nid=33184)

Biswajit Roy wrote a nice piece after a long time. He said everything right. I hope BCB read this article.

Murad
April 21, 2008, 01:39 PM
He speaks the truth, and I like being realistic.

But being realistic doesn't work on these players, who are obviously low in confidence and have no clue what the hell international cricket is about. Conclusion: Siddons should try to understand the players better, and our players should toughen up a bit.

Exactly. We fans can be realistic. But not a coach.

IMO, a coach cannot be so realistic. He should always think positive not negative. If hes so realtistic, then he will not go further. Negative mindsets are worse in every field.

His job is to take our team further and make our players strong. But being so realistic will only make them weaker.

Tigers_eye
April 21, 2008, 01:41 PM
Those of us who have raised or raising children can attest to the following:

One must be loving and caring and at the same time warn the little ones from not doing something wrong. Most of the time, the loving and caring would allow the child to have a healthy mind. Too much of bet'er bari can put a permanent scar.

Saying all this, I request BCB to start fining these boys or renew the contract on performance based system. Where everyone will be paid a low amount with lots of incentives. May be a century against the big teams would get 1.5 times of the match fee and a winning knock of 50+ would get the player twice the match fee. One can devise a system that would actually place a price tag on wickets. There are many ways to motivate players. Monitary incentives is just one way.

Murad
April 21, 2008, 01:44 PM
As long as Siddons have a plan, has a time-line, has a focus, and can show tid bit improvements along the way, I am happy. He also needs to know that he doesn't know everything and there are cultural and other barriers that he needs to overcome. Both ways need to be open minded and ready for small changes that would make the transition period better. The only advice I have is keep open communication with BCB, selectors, players, specially captain. The last two are the ones need him the most.

Stay away from the Media as much as possible coach.

You said it all. :up:

I don't know what is his plan. I hope it doesn't take another 2 yrs to see his plan working..(that time he will be gone!)

Fazal
April 21, 2008, 01:49 PM
Those of us who have raised or raising children can attest to the following:


So you are saying coaching our national team is equivalent of raisng a kid?
My question is how old? Toddler?

Then why don't we see diapers, diaper rash lotion, formula milk and pacifier in the locker room?

And what should be the team's mitivational song?

"Hush little baby, don't say a word,: Papa's going to buy you a mockingbird..."

sadi
April 21, 2008, 02:17 PM
Our players are really immature and such realistic attitude may not work with these bunch of guys. They are mentally weak and someone has to keep pushing them forward. Someone needs to keep telling them they are good enough to compete in this level and coach is not doing that right now. I understand he has a plan but sometimes, you have to be a liar and give the players false vote of confidence. He did that to a certain extent with Ashraful. But when the coach says something like that to a team, it takes away pressure to perform right away. Players think it is okay to lose.

Tigers_eye
April 21, 2008, 02:18 PM
So you are saying coaching our national team is equivalent of raisng a kid?
My question is how old? Toddler?

Then why don't we see diapers, diaper rash lotion, formula milk and pacifier in the locker room?

And what should be the team's mitivational song?

"Hush little baby, don't say a word,: Papa's going to buy you a mockingbird..."
5+. So no formula milk, pacifiers and diapers or diaper rashes to worry about. "It's like eat Broccoli and spinich. Cause I tell you too."

Motivation song is "Captain Planet, he is the hero..."

Fazal
April 21, 2008, 02:21 PM
5+. So no formula milk, pacifiers and diapers or diaper rashes to worry about.

Motivation song is "Captain Planet, he is the hero..."

I think some of the players may still have the problem with accident while taking nap after drinking milk. I suggest still pull-ups in the locker room, incase....

sharifk
April 21, 2008, 02:53 PM
Those of us who have raised or raising children can attest to the following:

One must be loving and caring and at the same time warn the little ones from not doing something wrong. Most of the time, the loving and caring would allow the child to have a healthy mind. Too much of bet'er bari can put a permanent scar.

Saying all this, I request BCB to start fining these boys or renew the contract on performance based system. Where everyone will be paid a low amount with lots of incentives. May be a century against the big teams would get 1.5 times of the match fee and a winning knock of 50+ would get the player twice the match fee. One can devise a system that would actually place a price tag on wickets. There are many ways to motivate players. Monitary incentives is just one way.

as i had said it before, performance based system sounds all good only if there is a good performance measurement system...in a team environment, rewarding shouldn't be allowed based on individual performance in a way that encourages players to be selfish.....how good will it be when we have a century or two but the team still fails to win? this is why reward for individual performance is forbidden in a teaming environment even though without individual performances the team can't win....in a team environment the team should be rewarded based on team performance only...

Tigers_eye
April 21, 2008, 03:38 PM
as i had said it before, performance based system sounds all good only if there is a good performance measurement system...in a team environment, rewarding shouldn't be allowed based on individual performance in a way that encourages players to be selfish.....how good will it be when we have a century or two but the team still fails to win? this is why reward for individual performance is forbidden in a teaming environment even though without individual performances the team can't win....in a team environment the team should be rewarded based on team performance only...
Not necessarily. In every pro sports there are individual performance based contracts in US. Even Pro/college coaches get bonuses based on his win-lose stats each year.

To disregard selfishness one can promote partnership as a performance measurement criteria. first six batters need to be treated in one scale the others need to be treated differently.

No way individual performance can be forbidden in team environment. There are many ways to skin a cat.

sharifk
April 21, 2008, 04:09 PM
Not necessarily. In every pro sports there are individual performance based contracts in US. Even Pro/college coaches get bonuses based on his win-lose stats each year.

To disregard selfishness one can promote partnership as a performance measurement criteria. first six batters need to be treated in one scale the others need to be treated differently.

No way individual performance can be forbidden in team environment. There are many ways to skin a cat.

performance based bonuses for the coaches make perfect sense because ultimately a team’s coach’s performance is as good as of the performance of the team but it’s not the same when it comes to individual and team performances…

you made a good point about partnerships, but when you consider partnerships you are in a way evaluating team performance instead of an individual performance because a partnership is a team work…..there can be an argument about an individual’s performance over a period vs. a single match performance because a longer period gives a better picture of performance but even then you must consider team’s overall performance prior to justifying the effectiveness of an individual performance….the bottom line is in a team event one’s individual performance is useless unless his team is benefitted of his performance…..and if you are good enough for the reward you make your team perform better with you...

Tigers_eye
April 21, 2008, 04:20 PM
Great! how about this idea. What ever the individual bonus is (how little it may be) would be multiplied by a constant if the team wins. That should incorporate the team goals.

The reason I like individual bonuses on performance is we are not an elite team. Our wins are very rare against stronger opponents. If one incorporates teams winning with the bonus then the players won't get many bonuses in a year. The incentive must be a realistic one. May be even two criteria (bonus systems) for two different type of opponents. One of bigger, better, stronger opponents and one for those who are below us.

Something must be done here because to me the players have lost all motivation. They play they want to play not what the team needs. Some how controlling their natural instinct for playing 4s and 6s and putting emphasis on singles must be done. In Test cricket may be one can come up with number of balls faced on the average position by position in a series.

All I know is we can not live with Status quo. Something must change in managing these boys. Their approach is not correct. Via monetary punishment or reward this attitude needs to be changed.

sharifk
April 21, 2008, 04:27 PM
T_e, I agree with you that our players need incentives for their good performances when they do....btw i didn't imply in anyway that the players should be rewarded only when the team is winning......what i am saying is we need a performance measurement system that can identify our players' and team's baseline performance and then incentives should based on the improvement made on the baseline......is it impossible? absolutely not...

djnaved
April 21, 2008, 04:47 PM
as a captain ashraful is horrible, he always thinks about wining against big teams. If I was a captain, i would tell my players to play good cricket, we know we can't beat pakistan without luck, just play good cricket,score runs,take wickets, frustrate the paki team...that's what i would say to my players... a no 9 team can't think about wining against big teams.... ash thinks the opposite, and that produces the result........

Ajfar
April 21, 2008, 05:58 PM
oh uh... we r heading toward the dead end...need to take an U turn...

sayem
April 21, 2008, 07:02 PM
DW said few things that we didn't like. You all know that.

GG said few things that BCB didn't like.

Amarnath said few things that no-one liked.

Trevor said few things that we didn't like.

Mohsin Kamal did few things (didn't actually) that we didn't like.

++++

As long as Siddons have a plan, has a time-line, has a focus, and can show tid bit improvements along the way, I am happy. He also needs to know that he doesn't know everything and there are cultural and other barriers that he needs to overcome. Both ways need to be open minded and ready for small changes that would make the transition period better. The only advice I have is keep open communication with BCB, selectors, players, specially captain. The last two are the ones need him the most.

Stay away from the Media as much as possible coach. Well said...spot on there!!

ehteshamul
April 21, 2008, 07:16 PM
SAVE OUR ONE DAY SQUAD

Since Shawn Williams and Siddons took over Our Cricket team, performance have dramatically nose dived.

When the coach does not feel confident in outcome of results how will the players perform to their potential or exceed it.

Siddons is also jeopardizing the career of 3 players – Ashraful, Aftab by playing them higher up the order where they are unable to control their natural style and also failing to correct Nafees’ shortcomings which are all coach’s responsibilities.

He is also not giving a break to these players (Ashraful, Aftab) to make them realize what is going wrong and what they need to do to regain form

If BCCB is intelligent and smart it is about time Siddons is replaced as a Head coach with somebody more competent and confine him as batting coach

Our superlative performance against India , South Africa in the last world cop is now a thing of the past. At that time even with a bunch of less experienced cricketers both India and South Africa were beaten comprehensive because the team believed in themselves and super motivation imparted by Dav Whatmore. Quite a number of existing team members were present. Mind you they negotiated and blasted the famous pace attack of both India and South Africa. So who said they cannot play genuine pace. It is all a mental game and self belief of the team and Coach that they can beat the very best of the world. Dav deserves full credit for that. Siddons need to see the Video of the games to see the communication of coach with players and their level of motivation that was prevailing at that time.

We need a Hard Task master like Dav Whatmore.

We can take help of Ashraful Haq Ex Cricketer of Bangladesh and presently in an influential position in ACC to use his good offices to get a Head Coach, Bowling and Fielding Coach from South Africa or Australia.
Siddons should be strongly spoken to by BCCB to show better team peformance as he is handsomely paid to bring all round improvements.

What has been the results so far ?. Only a few improvements- that off course must be acknowledged- Tamim, Shakib, Riyad and Dhiman all improving.

But Top order – Nafees, Aftab, Ashraful – repeated failures unacceptable in any form of cricket.

Since Siddons lacks tactical knowledge/Game Plan and failed so far to produce good results as a temporary arrangement Raqibul /Aminul Islam both ex Captains could be engaged as assistant coach and have a say in selectorial matters.

BCCB should arrange practice matches and get hold of a foreign Curator to prepare fast bouncy pitches to make players adapt to it.

I am surprised that when Siddons knows our batsmen’s inability to cope with pace he has so far not recommended to BCCB to hire curators available aplenty in his home country to prepare fast bouncy pitches in Bangladesh.

Also BCCB should hire immediately Bowling coach – some names that come to my mind CurtlyAmbrose/Andy Roberts/Joel Garner/Colin Croft at least on an adhoc basis to improve the performance of our pacers which has been lacking in pace, bite and variation.

For Fielding Coach South Africa is the best Source.

I think Bangladesh has to have an Operation /Business Manager responsible for hiring
Specialized Coaches ,Curators and arranging matches ( one day/Test)

Also our players match /Contract Salary has to be Performance based. If they do good reward them . If not slap a fine or demote them from high to a low category.In that way they will be aware of their responsibilities , consequences and motivation.

Both India and Pakistan have this system in place al least with their contract system .
A case in point is Shoaib Akhter and Inzammam. They are no longer on Central Contract – Shoaib because of his controversies and inconsistent performance and Inzammam has retired – Non Playing Player.

Our One day performance which showed great promise at the last World Cup is now in serious trouble.

Whether it is Coach, Captain and non Performing players BCCB should act quick and swift to Save our status which is apparently is at stake now.

Unless a drastic change takes place we will become a laughing stock and people like Miandad will make irresponsible statements and even a chokra like Shoaib Malik will dare to undermine us by drawing comparison against Zimbabwe .
I considered very rude of Shoaib Malik to make that remark against a brotherly country and Guest.

BCCB also got to arrange ASAP one on one session with all the members of the Bangladesh team as to what went wrong.

They should immediately organize a special seminar and invite Cricket greats like Ian Chappel, Sunil Gavaskar, Naseer Hussain, Martin Crowe, Wasim Akram all great thinkers and master tacticians to put forward their suggestions.

I always believe every cloud has a silver lining. Maybe this was a good lesson for us to
shape our team in a better way.

I have my fingers crossed what BCCB has as their next course of action.

BCCB – SAVE OUR CRICKET TEAM ( AT LEAST THE ONE DAY SQUAD !, SAVE OUR FANS ! SAVE OUR COUNTRYMEN FROM SHAME !. WE ARE ALL HURT BY THE RECENT DEVELOPMENTS OF OUR CRICKET TEAM.

LET YOUR ALL ROUND EFFORTS TRANSFORM OUR TEAM(ONCE GIANT KILLERS !) TO OUR OLD DAYS OF GLORY THAT WE ALL WITNESSED IN THE LAST ONE DAY WORLD CUP.

Sovik
April 21, 2008, 08:03 PM
why didn't he say that before start of the series?

Dhruvo
April 21, 2008, 08:10 PM
why didn't he say that before start of the series?
exactly,he said we might just win 1 or 2 odi's against them,he is a liar.

Sovik
April 21, 2008, 08:15 PM
exactly,he said we might just win 1 or 2 odi's against them,he is a liar.

he was playing with our emotions. got our hopes high and saying that was a joke that we didn't get

Dhruvo
April 21, 2008, 08:26 PM
he was playing with our emotions. got our hopes high and saying that was a joke that we didn't get
yeah,to be honest i think he doesnt have the respect for bangladesh cricket.

Sovik
April 21, 2008, 08:39 PM
yeah,to be honest i think he doesnt have the respect for bangladesh cricket.

its not him, its our golden boys who doesn't have the respect

al Furqaan
April 21, 2008, 08:47 PM
the boys are mentally weak. very weak. i admit that this "we're no good" philosophy of coaching isn't going to work.

i also agree with the monetary incentive issues raised. heck, even the pro athletes here in the US get incentives apart from signing bonuses. run for a 1000 yards, you get $ 500K.

ours should look something like this:

get out for less than 10 runs -> fine of 50% match fees
get out for less than 25 runs -> fine of 25% match fees
get out for less than 30 runs -> fine of 10% match fees
(the above for ash, aftab, SN, tamim, and maybe sakib)

score 50 runs -> 50% match fee reward
each additional run up to 99 runs earns 1% additional.
score 100 -> gets you 250% match fee reward
each additional run gets you 1% additional
score 200 runs -> 500% match fee reward

score a "game-wining" knock regardless of amount -> 300% match fee reward

take 3 wickets -> 200% match fee award (5 wickets for Test match both innings combined)
take 4 wickets -> 250% match fee reward
take 5 wickets -> 300% match fee reward
each additional wicket add 50% additional

match winning spell -> 300% match fee reward

dropped catches -> 50% match fee fine per catch dropped
stumpings -> 50% match fee fine per stumping chanced missed by keeper

al Furqaan
April 21, 2008, 08:51 PM
all rewards are additional to base match fees. so a 200% match fee reward is really 300% because the 100% is already there to begin with.

so if ash scores a match winning 105, and drops a catch. he would get his usual match fee + 3 times the match fee (winning knock) + 2.55 times match fee (century) - 50% match fee (dropped catch) = total of 6.05 times the base match fee.

pocha
April 21, 2008, 09:56 PM
Stick wont work, then need motherly care.

Probably hire some women coach for them, that might be the trick for our players. I am serious.

al-Sagar
April 21, 2008, 10:12 PM
He said he knows where we stand and where to go. I hope he takes us where to go.

jeesh
April 21, 2008, 11:38 PM
Guys you all are forgetting Siddons is dealing with a group of very inexperienced players. Whatmore had much more experienced players. If we continue to pick a team of 19 and 20 year olds with little experience the performance will continue to go downhill. Players play a major part in the camp as well as mentors, advisor's etc. Imagine Nazimuddin seeking advice from Ashraful.
I personally didnt support the philosophy of Shaun Williams, and hope thats not the approach Siddons will take. We dont ideally need a taskmaster, but rather someone who can motivate the players and correct the mistakes instead of just finding the slightest positives. The late Eddie Barlow was a terrific motivator- loved, respected by all. Whatmore was also similar. We need a taskmaster at the age group level like a Richard McIness so that players dont come into the national team with bad habits.

cricket_fanatic
April 21, 2008, 11:48 PM
My only concern of Siddons is that if he's a hard enough taskmaster. As a nation we are "shaukter vaukto". That's why our most effective coaches so far have been hard taskmasters like McInnes and Whatmore. I'm sure Sidoons has his own methods but if someone gets out playing a rash shot which is pretty much of a norm for our batsmen does Siddons make sure the guy actually 'realises' that he shouldn't have done so. I mean it sounds like a simple thing but our cricketers are not Australian players and they need to be taught according to their level which is......errr.....poor.

ZunaidH
April 21, 2008, 11:53 PM
I feel Siddons is a bad hire. Plus the added pressure of an impulsive and immature captian is also not helping the cause. Since Whatmore's departure, the team has gone retro...

al Furqaan
April 22, 2008, 12:34 AM
I feel Siddons is a bad hire. Plus the added pressure of an impulsive and immature captian is also not helping the cause. Since Whatmore's departure, the team has gone retro...

lets give siddons more time to judge him. at least 6 more months. he may indeed be a terrible man for the particular job at hand.

whatmore got off to a dream start, and finished rather poorly his last 3 years - so maybe siddons will have a nightmare start and finish strong. one can only hope.

Razi
April 22, 2008, 02:37 AM
Negatively Postive (http://www.thedailystar.net/story.php?nid=33184)

Biswajit Roy wrote a nice piece after a long time. He said everything right. I hope BCB read this article.

I just read it before coming to BC and it was a excellent article to say the least. Everything written in this article was simply spot on and wish BCB and even Mr. Jamie Siddons could read this article.

jeesh
April 22, 2008, 03:04 AM
Indeed he will, and he will need to act. Highest paid coach, high expectations.

WarWolf
April 22, 2008, 04:18 AM
Negatively Postive (http://www.thedailystar.net/story.php?nid=33184)

Biswajit Roy wrote a nice piece after a long time. He said everything right. I hope BCB read this article.
Good find Murad.

Fahim
April 22, 2008, 10:27 AM
damn i just miss Dav Whatmore this guy was a sikhed!

thebest
April 22, 2008, 11:17 AM
Those of us who have raised or raising children can attest to the following:

One must be loving and caring and at the same time warn the little ones from not doing something wrong. Most of the time, the loving and caring would allow the child to have a healthy mind. Too much of bet'er bari can put a permanent scar.

from another thread; how we think similarly. Did he understand what scar he is creating to those immature boys



Jamie Siddons: Always remember that you are handling some children. Please don't tell again that we do not expect to beat any big boy soon. Please retract that. It feels like they already surrendered against the big boy before the first ball was bowled. Also don't over praise. Then they would think that they have already achieves. Act like a parent of teenager. Soft but firm also remember our players are not Australian or the team can be molded into NZ. Pls use specialist.


Saying all this, I request BCB to start fining these boys or renew the contract on performance based system. Where everyone will be paid a low amount with lots of incentives. May be a century against the big teams would get 1.5 times of the match fee and a winning knock of 50+ would get the player twice the match fee. One can devise a system that would actually place a price tag on wickets. There are many ways to motivate players. Monitary incentives is just one way.

that was I am talking for so long. These overpaid kids would only be taught lesson if you slap them in their wallet

crikfreak
April 22, 2008, 11:47 AM
JS is too negative.. how can he just tell the players we are probably gonna loose...
thanks top him.. the players don't seem to mind losing at all coz they know they are gonna loose anyways.. JS needs to motivate the players.. tell them they can do it.. it might take a bit of time.. but they can.. the way siddons is going.. i see only downfall.. whats the use of finding only positives in a match?? shouldn't he rather look at the negatives and try to work on it?? i don't get his game plan..

he said "i know where we stand, where we are and where we need to get,"
i hope he knows where we need to get.. i don't think he really does..

i'm worried about these players.. before they used to believe in themselves.. they were ready for a chalenge when it came to them.. now.. they have lost all hope.. they don't even trust themselves enough to think that they can win against the big boys..

thebest
April 22, 2008, 12:01 PM
lets give siddons more time to judge him. at least 6 more months. he may indeed be a terrible man for the particular job at hand.

whatmore got off to a dream start, and finished rather poorly his last 3 years - so maybe siddons will have a nightmare start and finish strong. one can only hope.
is it? in his second last test we gave Australia the scare of life. We were just three wickets away from the greatest upset in test cricket. In his last tournament as coach we slayed two giants. If those consider as failure, I would rather those failed course than those who even do not believe that we can win a match against any top team.

Fazal
April 22, 2008, 12:11 PM
Whats the point bring back DW as if we had a choice to keep him. DW was a motivator, but inside he was so much frustrated with the whole situation that he wanted to get out of here as soon as possible. He (Dav) did what he could have done. He just ran the team on steroid and false hope (credit to him) and he knew that at some point the team will be exposed and collupse. And he jumped the ship (jumped to wrong deck of the ship though) just before it happened. He could have prevented few more months, but it was a matter of months and not years .....

SS
April 22, 2008, 02:40 PM
Whats the point bring back DW as if we had a choice to keep him. DW was a motivator, but inside he was so much frustrated with the whole situation that he wanted to get out of here as soon as possible. He (Dav) did what he could have done. He just ran the team on steroid and false hope (credit to him) and he knew that at some point the team will be exposed and collupse. And he jumped the ship (jumped to wrong deck of the ship though) just before it happened. He could have prevented few more months, but it was a matter of months and not years .....

DW bhuri ala hoile ki hobe..challu mal....gotona gotar age kaita porse...
Similarly
Amader coach takku hoile ki hobe...akono otota challu hoi nai...gotona gotar pore vacation nise...
just age porer bepar ...BD team re coaching kora ar banglai der sports ei bhalo kora ki hater moa
ja am ta kathal...

Eshen
April 22, 2008, 02:46 PM
I am starting to suspect Siddons is here only because BCB is offering him a fat salary. He does not seem to think Bangladesh has potential to turn out to be a competitive international side during his tenure.

WarWolf
April 22, 2008, 03:32 PM
I am starting to suspect Siddons is here only because BCB is offering him a fat salary. He does not seem to think Bangladesh has potential to turn out to be a competitive international side during his tenure.
He is a product of a good system. He is too accustomed with it to have the ability to think or work with a lot of difficulties which is very common in an emerging cricketing country like Bangladesh. I am sure his brain stops thinking here at times. He will be an excellent coach for countries like Aus, England or SA. But sad to say he is not the man for south asian countries like us....

Having said that I wanna wait 6 months more before making final decision on him.

shaad
April 22, 2008, 03:51 PM
Amar dui poisha:

Look, DW and JS had different goals, different teams that they started out with, and thus different strategies.

DW inherited a team with a decent mix of veterans and new blood. I don't think he ever believed he was going to be able to turn that team into world-beaters. Nor did he really care about how that team would perform in the future. His goal was to turn the team temporarily into an outfit that could, given a large dollop of luck and a good start, win against one or two of the more established nations occasionally. Note that this strategy does not guarantee consistency (as we saw in the WC) or long-term effectiveness/competence. DW was also smart enough (as pointed out by Fazal) to see the writing on the wall as the veterans were gradually phased out and more and more untried new blood was brought in. He knew we would be going through a rebuilding phase, one unlikely to yield much in the way of victories. So he jumped ship while he still had a fairly decent reputation. Let's be blunt: if DW had prepared/trained the team with an eye to the future, then it wouldn't have turned into a shambles almost as soon as he left.

JS, on the other hand, inherited a team composed almost entirely of youngsters, a team in which Rafique, long our ace in the hole, seemed no longer to be that effective and from which he eventually retired. JS has said that he wants to turn the team into a consistent competitive outfit and that that will take time. Now, I am by no means certain that he will be able to achieve that, but, unlike a number of you, I am willing to give him some time before baying for his head. There are a few signs of improvement, but it's still too early to make any generalizations. Let's give him some time and see what happens.

Dhruvo
April 22, 2008, 03:57 PM
Amar dui poisha:

Look, DW and JS had different goals, different teams that they started out with, and thus different strategies.

DW inherited a team with a decent mix of veterans and new blood. I don't think he ever believed he was going to be able to turn that team into world-beaters. Nor did he really care about how that team would perform in the future. His goal was to turn the team temporarily into an outfit that could, given a large dollop of luck and a good start, win against one or two of the more established nations occasionally. Note that this strategy does not guarantee consistency (as we saw in the WC) or long-term effectiveness/competence. DW was also smart enough (as pointed out by Fazal) to see the writing on the wall as the veterans were gradually phased out and more and more untried new blood was brought in. He knew we would be going through a rebuilding phase, one unlikely to yield much in the way of victories. So he jumped ship while he still had a fairly decent reputation. Let's be blunt: if DW had prepared/trained the team with an eye to the future, then it wouldn't have turned into a shambles almost as soon as he left.

JS, on the other hand, inherited a team composed almost entirely of youngsters, a team in which Rafique, long our ace in the hole, seemed no longer to be that effective and from which he eventually retired. JS has said that he wants to turn the team into a consistent competitive outfit and that that will take time. Now, I am by no means certain that he will be able to achieve that, but, unlike a number of you, I am willing to give him some time before baying for his head. There are a few signs of improvement, but it's still too early to make any generalizations. Let's give him some time and see what happens.
but it isnt confirmed that he will improve our cricket its maybe he will,but yes if we stick close to this line up for 4-5 years they will give us some wins,the guys who are on good and steady potentials are shakib and tamim and to be honest i didnt see anyone else perform like them.

Eshen
April 22, 2008, 04:01 PM
I don't mind to see Siddons taking his time with our team, but apparently he is more eager to spend time back home. He is showing a worrying tendency of not doing his homework on players and jumping into conclusions about them after watching them in a match or two.

Fazal
April 22, 2008, 04:02 PM
...the guys who are on good and steady potentials are shakib and tamim and to be honest i didnt see anyone else perform like them.

why you haven't seen any improvement in Ash? He is playing according to game plan, and he is getting some runs. He even got a quarter century in last ODI.

Dhruvo
April 22, 2008, 04:05 PM
why you haven't seen any improvement in Ash? He is playing according to game plan, and he is getting some runs. He even got a quarter century in last ODI.
haha i know you are being sarcastic,um right? but if you arent then let me say that he hasnt improved because he is already at his best the performance we saw in pakistan was his best and he will continue to perform like like until his retirement.

Murad
April 22, 2008, 04:27 PM
Is he on vacation again??

WarWolf
April 22, 2008, 11:31 PM
Is he on vacation again??
Abar jigaiii....

al-Sagar
April 23, 2008, 01:08 AM
siddons have had a tough start.

and it gets tougher when the players are not showing maturity.

anyway who is the alternative to SIDDONS now. nobody else came along to coach us.

so give him time.

Kabir
April 23, 2008, 08:33 AM
siddons have had a tough start.

and it gets tougher when the players are not showing maturity.

Not really. Siddons was on vacation mode since the beginning of his contract. Within the first few months he took several vacations. That's simply not acceptable.

If he went on vacation after trying for 6 months, that would be a different story.

Kabir
April 23, 2008, 08:35 AM
And as for his comments "I came here thinking we might lose 5-0", it gives me the feeling that he's not mentally ready to commit to anything yet. Taking frequent vacations, not asking for a win from the players...signs of a loser mentality.

If he doesn't expect to win, the players can never expect either. And for those who are giving Siddons kudos for being open...please realize that this is only after the fact - and it's an easy way to avoid questions like "what happened in b/w that you couldn't get what you were looking for".

zainab
April 25, 2008, 06:31 AM
What a loser this guy is, never played in a test match, played in one ODI. BCB made a big mistake is hiring him. He is a loser and brainwashing the team to think that they are losers also, he should be sent packing. I am sure that a local coach would have done much better. Why are they wasting big bucks on this guy? That money could have been utilized in hiring a good pace bowling coach and batting coach.

WarWolf
April 25, 2008, 08:08 AM
These days I started to believe that the West Indian coaches are best for us..I still cherish those pretty nice performances of the BD team while Gordon Greenidge was our coach....

Fazal
April 25, 2008, 09:55 AM
GG has the same issue what people are complaining about Siddon now a days i.e. brutally honest with the media. Other similarities? GG was looking for more days off in-between series than what Sisddon is doing. Thats why even there was mutual interest, it didn't worked out this time around with GG.

Other thing to consider, it is much easier to be successful and competative against associate teams. But its not that easy to take it to the next level (i.e. competative against test playing nation) without good solid talent to work with. If you don't have talent to work with, even the world's best coaches will also fail. You cannot make something out of nothing.

Here is my garding of different player's coachability factor:

Ashraful is not coachable player, he proved it against differernt coachs. Coachabilty facotor almost "Minimum to Zero". Already seen the best.

Afatb is folloiwng Ash's path. He showed some indication that he is coachable, but after his injury he start following old path. Coachabilty facotor "Suspect". Already seen the best

I don't know what to tell about SN. Coachability factor "Suspect". We may already seen his best.

Mashrafee is already a good player. But i don't know how much upside he have that we haven't seen yet. Coachability factor "Minimum".

Razzak is another player that I think we haven't seen the best yet. Coachability factor "unknown".

The players who still has some hope are:

Tamim (Already proved he is coachable). Haven't seen the best yet. Coachability factor "Very Good". Upside potential "Good"

Zunaid (I hope), Haven't seen the best yet. Coachability factor "Good". Upside potential "Good"

Farhad (Already proved he is coachable). Haven't seen the best yet. Coachability factor "Good". Upside potential "Average"

Sakib (Already proved he is coachable) . Haven't seen the best yet. Coachability factor "Very Good". Upside potential "Good"

Mahmudullah ( I hope. Showed some sign). Haven't seen the best yet. Coachability factor "Good". Upside potential "Average"

Dhiman ( I hope he is coachable, haven't seen any indiacation though). Haven't seen the best yet. Coachability factor "Unknown". Upside potential "Average"

Rahim ( Another player I think who is coachable. He was off form and needed some break). Haven't seen the best yet. Coachability factor "Good". Upside potential "Average"

Shahadat ( Proved that he is coachable). Haven't seen the best yet. Coachability factor "Good". Upside potential "Good"

Rasel. (I hope he is coachable). Coachability factor "unknown". Upside potential "Average"



So people who are blaming the coach for not seeing any improvent in Ash, Aftab, SN, Mashrafee, shouldn't blame coach as this may be all you may see from them regardless who comes as coach.

We should rather evaluate Siddon on how the younger players with good upside are developing under his wings who are considered coachable.

Tigers_eye
April 25, 2008, 10:04 AM
fazal bhai'er mukhey ei shob khati kotha manai na. Ektu rosh lagai den please.

Fazal
April 25, 2008, 10:13 AM
. Ektu rosh lagai den please.


Dilaam....

http://z.about.com/d/indianfood/1/0/0/0/-/-/rasgulla1.jpg

Roso Gollar Rosh....

Miraz
April 25, 2008, 10:41 AM
I miss Dav Whatmore.

Fazal
April 25, 2008, 10:42 AM
I miss his bhuri more than him.

thebest
April 25, 2008, 11:24 AM
Miraz Vai,
I am in your boat. I am not yet convinced with JS. He proved that he is a good batting coach. But I am not at all convinced with tactics and team selection which is directly Siddons domain. And the way our bowling and fielding going I wonder his suitability as head coach.

WarWolf
April 25, 2008, 02:02 PM
"I came here thinking that I might prove myself as a looser. And I happy to announce that I proved it with every single attitude..."

Yasin
April 25, 2008, 04:10 PM
Thoughts turn into words, words into action.

In this case:: His thoughts, teams actions --> His words.

reyme
April 25, 2008, 04:56 PM
Amar dui poisha:
JS, on the other hand, inherited a team composed almost entirely of youngsters, a team in which Rafique, but it's still too early to make any generalizations. Let's give him some time and see what happens.

It was JS who chose to go with the team that he has now. It is him who dropped many players from the team that Dav left us with, JS decided to drop Rafiq (at NZ), Pilot (he does not even know the guy), Bashar, Enamul, Tushar, Nazmul, Mushfiq. The current team is exactly same other than Bashar and Rafiq that beat India at the WC.

reyme
April 25, 2008, 05:00 PM
JS's Vacation Sage continues....
Vacation 1: Before NZ trip: Result: whitewash
Vacation 2: Before SA trip: Result: whitewash
Vacation 3: Before PAK trip: Result: whitewash
Vacation 4: Before IND/PAK trip: Result: TBD but whitewash is guranteed.

We got a vacation coach. Lets make him a vacation coach and hire some real coach.

Rifat
April 25, 2008, 07:28 PM
what i really liked from this tour is three words: "Shakib-al-Hasan" alhamdulillah!

nahaz
April 25, 2008, 11:54 PM
In Australia any state or first grade player is thoroughly professional. They go to gym everyday, hit the nets regularly, even during off-season, and watch their diet. In Bangladesh you have a team of players who like to ride on motorbikes and do unusual stuff during the breaks. I doubt many regularly go to gym, watch their diets and try to improve their game the whole year round. Siddons is not used to this unprofessionalism.Granted. But if he wants to be practical, he better tell our boys of their technical shortcomings and try to fix it.

In older players we had a lack of ability but abundance of spirit. We have spirit in guys like Sakib and Reza today, but I don't find the willingness to win. Team performance in Pakistan was pathetic. The difference between Aftab's and Symond's technique is probably minute but there is a big difference in mentality. Unless the players, and coach change their mentality nothing will happen. And what's with the idea of not winning? Doesn't a team on rebuilding phase still win sometimes? I say our boys are better than WI, we just need to change the mentality.
Ithink having so many players with similar abilities and experience on the team may be creating friction with the captaincy up for grabs.

thasan
April 26, 2008, 01:10 AM
i am already missing DW. JS doesnt look a good catch to me...

zainab
April 26, 2008, 04:56 AM
JS's Vacation Sage continues....
Vacation 1: Before NZ trip: Result: whitewash
Vacation 2: Before SA trip: Result: whitewash
Vacation 3: Before PAK trip: Result: whitewash
Vacation 4: Before IND/PAK trip: Result: TBD but whitewash is guranteed.

We got a vacation coach. Lets make him a vacation coach and hire some real coach.


I think the vacation happens after the series and not before. After the NZ series, he did not not return with the boys. I also think that he was on holiday after the SA trip. and after the Pakistani trip, so it looks that he will have a two weeks break after every series.
What bothers me is that before each series, he only has a few days training camp with the players, this is totally unacceptable. With such a young team, he should be spending more time with them. I blame BCB for making this huge blunder.No wonder the performance of this team is deteriorating badly.

BANFAN
April 26, 2008, 05:53 AM
JS still doesn't have any clue of the team. Too long a honeymoon period. :)

BCB needs to be tough with him to show result.

Abd_Bakri
April 26, 2008, 11:04 AM
after browsing through some posts made here i felt pretty confused.... dav handled a different team ?! WHEN ?! ya when he started out he had all the old players... he was the one who gave the young guns the chance right ?! in this current team only nazim dhiman and zunaeed the only players who didnt play under whatmore... others tamim nafees ash aftab sakib mash everyone played under whatmore... so i really dont know where dav had such a different team... and whoaa... someone said dave finished of badly.... lets see... the wc 2007 was bad okk hmm... defeating australia was bad ohhh okk... defeating the minnows everytime was even worse i guess right right right... pushing australia to a defeat in test match had to be the worst in 2006 right... hmm.... what about pushing alot of teams in odis... that was pathetic right ?! i guess so... ohh im so happy to seee siddons doing great... i never liked the fact that siddons became a coach... i felt dav was the perfect guy for us... if he stayed for two years or at best 4 years he would have taken the team to a new level... he left the team at a stage where we were pushing bigger teams like india in odis.... now siddons is handling the team in a way where we are lucky to get RESPECTABLE defeats.... back to the era before whatmore... respectable defeats.! i miss dav.... hope we find someone like him!

Miraz
April 26, 2008, 11:35 AM
Could not agree more, Abd_Bakri. :up:

Perfectly put.

al Furqaan
April 26, 2008, 12:24 PM
honestly, i felt that siddons was the man when he was first appointed...now i am not so sure. but at the same time, a 6 month period is not that long in the context of international cricket. i am willing to give JS another 6 months.

come new years 2009 we will be able to tell definitively whether siddons is just making a big buck or he is really here to help BD cricket.

zainab
April 26, 2008, 03:50 PM
Siddons has got it made with this assignment. He is the one who should be running the training camp for the national cricketers, he is on holiday.
When he returns, the cricketers will be playing domestic cricket, so what will he be doing? Seems that he is receiving a huge salary for 6 months of work in the year.
i thought that BCB had better brains to allow this guy to hoodwink them. By now, they should see it in clear daylight that he is making a lot of lame excuses, the No1 excuse is that BD is at No9 in the ICC ranking and there is no way that they can beat the other countries, they can only beat associate teams and maybe the cricketers honestly believe this.
Eventually,I can see the writing on the wall that he wants BD to lose their test status.
I have a very bad feeling about him. He never played in a test match, if he was such a terrific player, how come he was never in theOzzy National team as a test player or an ODI player?

cricket_king
April 26, 2008, 08:42 PM
Siddons has got it made with this assignment. He is the one who should be running the training camp for the national cricketers, he is on holiday.
When he returns, the cricketers will be playing domestic cricket, so what will he be doing? Seems that he is receiving a huge salary for 6 months of work in the year.
i thought that BCB had better brains to allow this guy to hoodwink them. By now, they should see it in clear daylight that he is making a lot of lame excuses, the No1 excuse is that BD is at No9 in the ICC ranking and there is no way that they can beat the other countries, they can only beat associate teams and maybe the cricketers honestly believe this.
Eventually,I can see the writing on the wall that he wants BD to lose their test status.
I have a very bad feeling about him. He never played in a test match, if he was such a terrific player, how come he was never in theOzzy National team as a test player or an ODI player?
If Australian state sides played as international teams, each one of them would have a chance of being world champions. You obviously have no clue as to how competitive the domestic matches are in Australia, let alone the quality of the players. If Siddons had tried for any other team besides Australia, you can bet he would've got a call to the national side.

CricTiger
April 26, 2008, 10:13 PM
Siddons has got it made with this assignment. He is the one who should be running the training camp for the national cricketers, he is on holiday.
When he returns, the cricketers will be playing domestic cricket, so what will he be doing? Seems that he is receiving a huge salary for 6 months of work in the year.
i thought that BCB had better brains to allow this guy to hoodwink them. By now, they should see it in clear daylight that he is making a lot of lame excuses, the No1 excuse is that BD is at No9 in the ICC ranking and there is no way that they can beat the other countries, they can only beat associate teams and maybe the cricketers honestly believe this.
Eventually,I can see the writing on the wall that he wants BD to lose their test status.
I have a very bad feeling about him. He never played in a test match, if he was such a terrific player, how come he was never in theOzzy National team as a test player or an ODI player?

What can we do ? Everything is as per the contract I guess.He is taking all the advantages and utilizing his vacation time for a good cause -spending time with his family or may be planning for the team ! Only time will tell how good he will be for the team.It's too early to judge him.

reyme
April 26, 2008, 11:49 PM
He speaks the truth, and I like being realistic.


Let me speak another truth. Currently JS is the worst coach compare to any other test playing team coach. He by no means a world class coach. He has been outclassed and outsmart by all the test playing coaches so far on and off the field. We by no means going anywhere with this coach who cares more for vacation than preparing his team for the next series. If he was in India, he would be long gone by now. So unlucky of us...

BD-BLAST
April 27, 2008, 11:10 AM
Siddons negative mentality has rubbed off on the whole team. He has the mentality of the poor asian coaches we had in the 90s.

The whole team has become a shambles lately.

Recently they did play some good cricket because they had a positive attitude towards the game.

Realistically we dont have a good chance of beating the main teams, but we have a fair chance. But if the coach gives them the license to loose then our team is only going to go downhill just like it was in the early 00's.

zainab
April 27, 2008, 04:12 PM
Let me speak another truth. Currently JS is the worst coach compare to any other test playing team coach. He by no means a world class coach. He has been outclassed and outsmart by all the test playing coaches so far on and off the field. We by no means going anywhere with this coach who cares more for vacation than preparing his team for the next series. If he was in India, he would be long gone by now. So unlucky of us...


Right on! I never see him taking notes. He just sits there with a blank face. wish Tom Moody could have been the coach, that guy used to write down all mistakes and then have a feedback with the SL team.

IMO, he is babying this team, he needs to be sterner and hold each one more accountable, also he should let a few batsman play their natural game.
Blame his vacations on BCB, they were so desperate for a coach because the cricketers and fans were down their necks that they went and picked up this useless dumbo at such a hyped up price, I dont think he has a clue about BD cricket.