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View Full Version : US of PA Versus Siddons, the Latest.


Sohel
May 18, 2008, 11:22 PM
US, apologist par excellence, is spot on this time.

READ (http://www.prothom-alo.com/archive/news_details_fcat.php?dt=2008-05-18&issue_id=926&cat_id=&nid=MjQzNjk=&fid=Ng==)

Maybe someone will be kind enough to translate ? ... :)

RazabQ
May 19, 2008, 01:55 AM
hmm - maybe US has a point. But honestly we need our boys to be tough enough now to win without the soft psychology. Otherwise it will be that once in a blue moon win. The players who will survive this regime won't need some beer-goggle reality packaged in coach-speak to win. They will win because they bloody will WANT to win.

To this point: I'm looking at the likes of TI or S-a-H. You think those two need some Stuart-smileyesque daily affirmations to get their self-belief?

Sohel
May 19, 2008, 02:27 AM
hmm - maybe US has a point. But honestly we need our boys to be tough enough now to win without the soft psychology. Otherwise it will be that once in a blue moon win. The players who will survive this regime won't need some beer-goggle reality packaged in coach-speak to win. They will win because they bloody will WANT to win.

US definitely has a point or two here, no matter how convoluted his ulterior motives may or may not be.

The flaccid, putuputu approach oozing with ceaseless New-Age slash SW-esque positive affirmations doesn't work in Bangladesh IMHO. Because instead of inspiring players to do better, it tends to make them complacent, dangerously delusional and moronic.

Weirdly enough, the negativist approach does the same with different expressions of moronic delusions as recently observed from the behavior of Ash and Aftab.

It is important to maintain and enhance one's self esteem, and offer the sort of corrective action that focuses on the what-what-why within clearly set lines, rather than the traditional belittlement in public -- but that has to be done within the context of International cricket WITHOUT taking away the few achievements we actually managed.

JS continues to almost casually flaunt his lack of interest, especially when compared to RM, in the details of our cricket and see everything from his almost arrogant, poorly informed and vacation-laden subjectivity. That is not helping either as the substantial difference between tough love and de facto fatalism in the name of "realistic expectations" is lost inside that smooth head somewhere.

He needs to learn a few things to and drop the know-it-all attitude... :)

To this point: I'm looking at the likes of TI or S-a-H. You think those two need some Stuart-smileyesque daily affirmations to get their self-belief?

:lol: ... Funny image.

Tamim probably does it with a punching bag with Munaf and Talha's face printed around his eye level.

Tamim and MaMi are young and have their own ways of bouncing back I'm sure. I just pray to GOD they sustain their comparatively more consistent performances. MaMi's in terms of "containment" bowling only because despite the couple of magnificent recent knocks, his batting has been more on the shaky side.

BANFAN
May 19, 2008, 05:34 AM
Perfect, absolutely spot on.

Even an established mature team might find it difficult to perform, under such negative attitude of the coach.

mahbubH
May 19, 2008, 05:51 AM
it would be great if someone post the image of the news!! Cannot get the fonts of prothom-alo!!

reyme
May 19, 2008, 06:34 AM
Its funny, how I am feeling the same way as did Utpal Shuvro. Excellen article, he just put out the words, what I had been dying to let out in the air for so long.

Absolutely, when you look back and see the performance of a team for the last 2.5 yers before JS took over and then compare that with JS's, you see a day night difference. The most important aspects are the players lack in self confidence, the can do attitude and satisfaction out of absolutely nothing. Thats why we hear Aftab is satisfied with a bare 9.0 batting avg! What a change in attitude! Bravo Jamie Siddons bravo. You have been successful letting a teams morale close to zero with your vacation ladden arrogance and know it all attitude.

"When you dont have victory written inside, you cant have victory outside". Its time for a reality check guys. Do you still want to carry on with a guy who spent more time on vacation than actual time on the field with our boys? Would you still like to step forward with a guy, who does not believe in our cricket, rather focus on the blame game all the time? I was shell shocked just even yeserday reading JS questioning the performance of our cricketers (during Biman-Abahoni) match, saying how can these players play at the nternational level, if they they cant even compete at the domestic level. FYI JS these same boys carried out fantastic victory after victory right before you joined. All the hell actually broke loose since you took over.

My question is are you JS is actually capable of winning a match at the international level, if it is not Australia? I dont think so. Mr. JS you need to go back and learn test level coaching first, learn to motivate players first and then come back. Until then keep you mouth shut and leave us alone.

BD-Shardul
May 19, 2008, 06:53 AM
A coach's task is to solve the problems of players. Instead JS keeps complaining. Bd players average 20, BD players are at a level where you need to teach basics of cricket bla bla bla. Pathetic. Even Zimbo coach doean't speak like that.

Tigers_eye
May 19, 2008, 08:55 AM
Siddons and his players need to hear any motivational speaker speak. Couple of weeks back I just heard Les Brown speak in my students graduation ceremony. Uplifting, inspiring, heartening and moving all put together. May be BCB can arrange something like that. BCB should have a team manager who can contradict with Siddons expectation.

I vote for US himself.

Fazal
May 19, 2008, 09:11 AM
Siddon keno... Siddon-er Baba combined with Dav-er Baba-o amader talented experienced player-der change kortey parbey na. Ashraful is no Bashar. Nor is he Rafiq, Gullu or Pilot. They may have limited skills, but they gave 100% and was eager to learn. They saved the team from total disaster. Now non of them are there anymore to save our as*.
Now Ashraful is the leader in the team. And we see his efffect in Aftab. Pretty soon he will influence Zuniad and other young players. Sooner we realize that and remove cancerous element from the team the better it is. Forgat about Siddon, No coach was able to change Ashraful. Whats makes you think Siddon will suddenly able to change him.
Ashraful and Aftab is happy with their performance. They are to a point that they think whatever they do, they are still good enough to be in the team. What you expect for Siddon? He should support and pamper them?

I am not saying I am happy with Siddon's performance so far, but I am not going to blame him for our experience's player's lack of improvement also. Among young and new players: Zunaid, Rahim is a disapointment. But Tamim, Sakib, Shahadat, Mahmudullah showed improvement.

Tigers_eye
May 19, 2008, 09:45 AM
After 57, he said I played good. Gave bad luck as another excuse.
After getting dropped from Mahamadan he said, I am being rested.

Can reality be so far from a person? "FINE" the bugger. Penalize him. That is the only way if one can put some sense on him.

Miraz
May 19, 2008, 10:27 AM
Fazal, it's not only about Ashraful, but also about the self-esteem and the belief pattern of every player.

It's easy to blame Ashraful because of his stupidity, but definitely Siddons has much greater influence on the team compared to Ash.

Siddons is simply ruining what we have achieved during Dav era. Self-esteem and winning mentality are more precious than techniques to win matches.

We needed someone like Dav at the helm with couple of good coaches in the academy. Dav is a different material.

cricket_dorshok
May 19, 2008, 11:02 AM
Haire bangali!!
The person who was proud to utter the name "Siddons' first as a potential BD coach and now the same person is asking his head.
Without knowing properly how to play cricket, self belief or whatever you say can't make a good cricket team. To become a consistently performing team knowing how to play cricket is much more important than all the postive lectures or believe. If our cricketers knew the proper cricket, Siddon's negative comment could harm a little. Dave's inspirational coaching can win a few match here and there but that was not sufficient (nor our target) to become a consistently performing team. Not that I am happy with Siddon's performance but I believe a Siddon's style coaching will benefit us for the long run.

Fazal
May 19, 2008, 11:06 AM
Miraz,
I am not saying Siddon is doing a good job. And I agree that 'on theory' Siddon, as coach, should have more influence than the captain. But you cannot ignore the influence of Captain Ashraful in our young team with a foreign new coach. Siddon is doing lot of things that can be critisized. But not his inability to change players like Ashraful, Aftab and (in some extend) Mashrafee. By this time they are expreienced enough to self motivate themselves and guide the young players as well. In Indo-Pak-Bangladeshi culture its not abnomal to see captain incluence the whole the team when the team is young and the coach is foreign. For example: Pakistan and Inzy (and now Shoeb), India with Dada (and now with Dhony). You cannot ignore the role of Captain in our young team.

The mistake was made long before Siddon came here.... the mostake was made when we made Ashraful the captain.... the talented superstar who was always unable to adopt and unable to learn from his previous coaches. And we thought just making him the captain will suddenly make him more responsible and more productive. Thats the main root cause of pour problem. Aftab (with less national skill than Ash) is following Ashraful's path.... Zunida is on the way..... who knows about SN and Tamim.... may be one day they will aslo follow the leader.

Now back to Siddon. How much influence he had with the young players? I would say its a mixed signal.... some improvement with Sakib, mahmudullah, Sahadat, Tamim etc but haven/t seen much with Zunaid, Rahim, Mehrab, etc for different reasons. Among moderate experienced players Rasel (after injury), Razzak and SN are kind of struggling. I cannot completely blame Siddon for that.

Now where I blame Siddon?
1. Fielding is going downward

2. Sticking with Ash and Aftab too long.

3. Taking too many vacations. But we don't know whats in his contract. May be we need to blame BCB for that more than Siddon.

4. Sometimes saying stuff (even I may agree) that may create hearburn to fans and reporters.

5. Not knowing players beyond his 14/16 selected players. No interest to know beyond that.

6. Not talking control of the team and prevent further damage being done buy the two bolods.

7. etc....

btw if you want someone like Dav as coach thats fine..... but make no mistake McInnis is Noooo Dav. He wouldn't tolerate those two bolods (plus more may be) and their stupidness.... he would make sure that these two connot even enter to the stadium or make any contact with the rest of the young players.

Fazal
May 19, 2008, 11:09 AM
Haire bangali!!
The person who was proud to utter the name "Siddons' first as a potential BD coach and now the same person is asking his head.
Without knowing properly how to play cricket, self belief or whatever you say can't make a good cricket team. To become a consistently performing team knowing how to play cricket is much more important than all the postive lectures or believe. If our cricketers knew the proper cricket, Siddon's negative comment could harm a little. Dave's inspirational coaching can win a few match here and there but that was not sufficient (nor our target) to become a consistently performing team. Not that I am happy with Siddon's performance but I believe a Siddon's style coaching will benefit us for the long run.

Thanks for saying it so clearly.... you hit few key points.

BANFAN
May 19, 2008, 11:26 AM
Tough approach doesn't mean, breaking the morale and self belief

What a logic man, "If our cricketers knew the proper cricket, Siddon's negative comment could harm a little" :) :) Salute

I wonder if harming Is the way of teaching !! Good approach, TUI PROPER CRICKET JOANOCH NA KEN, SHA LA TOR CRICKET KHELAR SHOKH E SHESH KOiRA DIMU.

bravo for the coach and his support. great people think alike, & ..... too.

Fazal
May 19, 2008, 11:37 AM
So far we did pampering. So what Pampering gave us so far?
We had one Ashraful to deal before, now we have two fools. You do more pampering? Pretty soon you will have a team with 11 fools.

Next what? Buy a dozen of diapers and pacifyers incase they start wetting their pants and start crying when opponent fielders start sledging them saying they are noo good?

RazabQ
May 19, 2008, 11:41 AM
While I don't go along with Fazal's singling out of Ashraful as the root cause (he's more emblematic than anything), we are both on the same page that at this point we need the tough love. Let us take our lumps while we find the players who have strong mind. Don't forget, before winning the Reliance World Cup, Border's Aussies (with Waugh, Boon, Marsh, McDermott, et al) were hardly world beaters. But they stuck with the tough minded guys, took the hard knocks and turned it around. Siddons is trying to get our players fundamental straight and giving them no molly coddling. Our over-emotional folks need to get around this line of thinking.

Miraz
May 19, 2008, 11:55 AM
I don't agree that Siddon's approach is tough approach, it's a demoralizing approach. Haven't heard about any hard stance by Siddons on any issues except putting excuses for losing.

To be honest, I haven't seen any sort of technical improvements of any player under his coaching.

"You are a bunch of losers, how dare you dream to win!!", that's the message Siddon's is giving out. This is not tough love or anything similar.

Fazal
May 19, 2008, 11:56 AM
Just face it..... nobody wants to be our coach.

Dav ran away the first chance he got....even taking a job to coach Inidan u-19 team.

Our management and players are not ready to handle McInnes 'no-nonsense' type of coaching.... he doesn't believe in baby seating... and diaper changing.... he will change the 'polau birirani' diet, will not except picnic and fooling-around atmosphere. He is a no nonsence kind of guy... wouldn't give 3rd, 4th or 5th chance to players ....You don't like Siddon's approach? Then you wouldn't like McInnes thats for sure.

You want nicer and kinder coach? Like GG? You are complaining about Siddon's vacation... they agreed even more vacation and still GG didnlt want the job. You don't like Siddon saying that we are no good? Guess what? w What GG said in out 1st WC?

Then who do we get? I say go to Mother Teresa's graveyard and pray if she can come back and coah our natioanl team.

Miraz
May 19, 2008, 11:59 AM
Just face it..... nobody wants to be our coach.

Dav ran away the first chance he got....even taking a job to coach Inidan u-19 team.


That's not true. Dav had some initial proposal of pay rise and we declined his offer.

After the initial proposal got rejected, Dav decided to move on. India job prospect was certainly a reason and that simply ruined Dav's reputation.

Ironically, we are paying Siddons more than Dav's demand.

Miraz
May 19, 2008, 12:05 PM
Haire bangali!!
The person who was proud to utter the name "Siddons' first as a potential BD coach and now the same person is asking his head.
Without knowing properly how to play cricket, self belief or whatever you say can't make a good cricket team. To become a consistently performing team knowing how to play cricket is much more important than all the postive lectures or believe. If our cricketers knew the proper cricket, Siddon's negative comment could harm a little. Dave's inspirational coaching can win a few match here and there but that was not sufficient (nor our target) to become a consistently performing team. Not that I am happy with Siddon's performance but I believe a Siddon's style coaching will benefit us for the long run.

C_D, I proposed Siddon's name as the prospective coach of Bangladesh and that was simply due to his coaching pedigree with different Australian team.

Now, I am not convinced with his approach/tactics and is ready to ask questions.

From what I have seen so far, he is neither a hard taskmaster nor an inspiring coach.

Murad
May 19, 2008, 12:06 PM
Siddons is like Minhazul abedin Nannu, who just know how to put the blames on others ppl or things.

And they both are failing in their job.

We should make Bulbul our head coach. He's a great coach. He does the opposite of the twos. Instead of playing the blame games, he just concentrate on working hard with his players and find a way to beat the opposition team with few talented players.

We don't need any foreign coach who are just like whiney babies.

Fazal
May 19, 2008, 12:08 PM
I don't agree that Siddon's approach is tough approach, it's a demoralizing approach. Haven't heard about any hard stance by Siddons on any issues except putting excuses for losing.

To be honest, I haven't seen any sort of technical improvements of any player under his coaching.


Ok Miraz fair enough. To be true I also don't like it because i was hoping he would be more tough.

But now comes the real hard question. What we do? Who we bring in? No body wants the job.

.. except for McInnes....and for some reason we (BCB) are too afraid of McInees and his coaching aproach. And I am not sure now McInnes will want it either. He is a proud man. When BCB delayed his renewal (to the last moment), he made his move first. I doublt he will acpect it now. There is too much chaos here and too much unrealistic expectation here... need complete rebuiling mode ... getting rid of all the spoiled players.


Are we ready for this? I don't think so.

Fazal
May 19, 2008, 12:12 PM
That's not true. Dav had some initial proposal of pay rise and we declined his offer.

After the initial proposal got rejected, Dav decided to move on. India job prospect was certainly a reason and that simply ruined Dav's reputation.

Ironically, we are paying Siddons more than Dav's demand.

I don't know where you are getting this information. As far as I know, Dav was looking this job as a launching pad for his next move. Unfortunately he misjudged it.

Plus Dav Stopped talking with Ash. Why? He realized that its a no win situation here in this job, he cannot make permanent change... drop players who are not learning...... he just went with the flow and bought some time and did his job hunting while staying with us ... atleast the last few years.

BANFAN
May 19, 2008, 12:18 PM
There is no problem for the coach being tough with the players. Infact the coach should be tough. There should be no mercy in training and penalizing for nonsense game. He is even at liberty to insult the senior players infront of the team and board if needed. Drop anyone if they are not showing any improvement repeatedly...anything else that can be defined as being tough, to improve the team.

But killing the self belief is not at all the way of improvement. Every player must believe that they can improve and come to the expected standard. If that's gone, nothing can improve the game.

Show me an area where sidon has made a positive impact. He is simply unfit for the national side. He can be with with under 13/14 team, where they have long time in hand to improve, lets see if he is even capable of doing that over a long period, as some people expect.

Miraz
May 19, 2008, 12:24 PM
I don't know where you are getting this information. As far as I know, Dav was looking this job as a launching pad for his next move. Unfortunately he misjudged it.

Plus Dav Stopped talking with Ash. Why? He realized that its a no win situation here in this job, he cannot make permanent change... drop players who are not learning...... he just went with the flow and bought some time and did his job hunting while staying with us ... atleast the last few years.

That's your speculation and devoid of any truth.

We made significant leaps in the last few years of his tenure. He stopped talking to Ash, possibly that was the best solution according to his judgment to bring out the best from Ash. He produced results. Be it in football or cricket, managers who win matches earn reputation and recognition. It doesn't matter what approach he takes to bring those wins. Dav was a winning coach and a coach who wins matches deserves better package.

Fazal
May 19, 2008, 12:38 PM
Show me an area where sidon has made a positive impact. He is simply unfit for the national side.

If you think that way that sidon has NOT made a positive impact then thats fine.. lets talk about that aspect. But don't tell me he is not good enough coach because he hurting our players feeling.

For teams like us we need to see individual player's improvement also (along with team's over all performance),. Now an individual player can do better or worse and it may have nothing to do with the coach. Lets recognize that also. Plus unlike what Miraz said, lets not lalk about improving players technique. beacuse even its very important that the coach help the players (in technical aspect) it may take us no where when we agrue two opposite ends. Any improvment ( technical or non-technical) will show in players scoreboard.

Can you please tell me based on your opinion which players performed better or worse based on last one year?

I think that will help us answering the follwoing question

" If sidon havemade any positive impact on the team?".

BANFAN
May 19, 2008, 12:40 PM
...................... ........................ .......................... ....................
We should make Bulbul our head coach. He's a great coach. He does the opposite of the twos. Instead of playing the blame games, he just concentrate on working hard with his players and find a way to beat the opposition team with few talented players.

We don't need any foreign coach who are just like whiney babies.

Not a bad idea at all. While BCB looks for another suitable coach. If Bulful can bring positive result, even he can continue. Anyway this coach (JS) is not teaching anything rathar damaging.

Fazal
May 19, 2008, 12:47 PM
That's your speculation and devoid of any truth.

We made significant leaps in the last few years of his tenure. He stopped talking to Ash, possibly that was the best solution according to his judgment to bring out the best from Ash. He produced results. Be it in football or cricket, managers who win matches earn reputation and recognition. It doesn't matter what approach he takes to bring those wins. Dav was a winning coach and a coach who wins matches deserves better package.

Well its not only my speculation. It was well discussed here and agreed conclusion by more few members here at that time. I clearly remember that,

About, Ashraful? His performace was almost as spotty as present. May be alittle better, but not by much. Thats why he coantinue to have a 20+ averege for a while now. That didn;t changed much.

Now Dav had some wins. How? May be at that wins we are ignoreing the supproting roles that Gullu/bashar/Rafiq/Pilot played. Now we don;t have these players to save ous rear. may be Dav did a great job hiding the damage Ash/aftab was doing to the team. Now in the absent of Dav and the senior players its now exposed.

Plus is Dav a possible solution now? Can we bring him back? Is he interested now?

IF not, if we fire Siddon now. what we do?

Fazal
May 19, 2008, 12:52 PM
Yes why not... bring Bulful now.. and after one month open three more thread asking for Bulbul's head.

Lets set up a list of coaches like they do for hurricane and go one after one.... one new coach after every series failure... that will be fun.

Tigers_eye
May 19, 2008, 01:00 PM
...Can you please tell me based on your opinion which players performed better or worse based on last one year?
Roshod ditasi: (One day International)

Aftab:
<TABLE class=engineTable><TBODY><TR class=data1><TD class=left noWrap>year 2006</TD><TD></TD><TD>27</TD><TD>27</TD><TD>4</TD><TD>784</TD><TD class=padAst>66</TD><TD>34.08</TD><TD>797</TD><TD>98.36</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>8</TD><TD>2</TD><TD>86</TD><TD>27</TD><TD style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 3px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 1px; PADDING-TOP: 1px; WHITE-SPACE: nowrap">http://stats.cricinfo.com/navigation/engine-nav/drilldown.gif (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/player/56266.html?class=2;template=results;type=batting;v iew=innings;year=2006)</TD></TR><TR class=data1><TD class=left noWrap>year 2007</TD><TD></TD><TD>23</TD><TD>23</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>519</TD><TD class=padAst>92</TD><TD>22.56</TD><TD>631</TD><TD>82.25</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>2</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>51</TD><TD>13</TD><TD style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 3px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 1px; PADDING-TOP: 1px; WHITE-SPACE: nowrap">http://stats.cricinfo.com/navigation/engine-nav/drilldown.gif (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/player/56266.html?class=2;template=results;type=batting;v iew=innings;year=2007)</TD></TR><TR class=data1><TD class=left noWrap>year 2008</TD><TD></TD><TD>8</TD><TD>8</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>129</TD><TD class=padAst>61</TD><TD>16.12</TD><TD>163</TD><TD>79.14</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>3</TD><TD>10</TD><TD>2</TD><TD style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 3px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 1px; PADDING-TOP: 1px; WHITE-SPACE: nowrap">http://stats.cricinfo.com/navigation/engine-nav/drilldown.gif (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/player/56266.html?class=2;template=results;type=batting;v iew=innings;year=2008)</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Ash:
<TABLE class=engineTable><TBODY><TR class=data1><TD class=left noWrap>year 2006</TD><TD></TD><TD>26</TD><TD>22</TD><TD>4</TD><TD>454</TD><TD>67*</TD><TD>25.22</TD><TD>640</TD><TD>70.93</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>3</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>56</TD><TD>3</TD><TD style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 3px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 1px; PADDING-TOP: 1px; WHITE-SPACE: nowrap">http://stats.cricinfo.com/navigation/engine-nav/drilldown.gif (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/player/55988.html?class=2;template=results;type=batting;v iew=innings;year=2006)</TD></TR><TR class=data1><TD class=left noWrap>year 2007</TD><TD></TD><TD>22</TD><TD>21</TD><TD>3</TD><TD>509</TD><TD class=padAst>87</TD><TD>28.27</TD><TD>625</TD><TD>81.44</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>3</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>56</TD><TD>3</TD><TD style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 3px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 1px; PADDING-TOP: 1px; WHITE-SPACE: nowrap">http://stats.cricinfo.com/navigation/engine-nav/drilldown.gif (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/player/55988.html?class=2;template=results;type=batting;v iew=innings;year=2007)</TD></TR><TR class=data1><TD class=left noWrap>year 2008</TD><TD></TD><TD>11</TD><TD>11</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>222</TD><TD>64*</TD><TD>22.20</TD><TD>310</TD><TD>71.61</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>25</TD><TD>0</TD><TD style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 3px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 1px; PADDING-TOP: 1px; WHITE-SPACE: nowrap">http://stats.cricinfo.com/navigation/engine-nav/drilldown.gif (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/player/55988.html?class=2;template=results;type=batting;v iew=innings;year=2008)</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Junaid:
<TABLE class=engineTable><TBODY><TR class=data1><TD class=left noWrap>year 2007</TD><TD>3</TD><TD>3</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>29</TD><TD class=padAst>15</TD><TD>9.66</TD><TD>70</TD><TD>41.42</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>4</TD><TD>0</TD><TD style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 3px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 1px; PADDING-TOP: 1px; WHITE-SPACE: nowrap">http://stats.cricinfo.com/navigation/engine-nav/drilldown.gif (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/player/55946.html?class=2;template=results;type=batting;v iew=innings;year=2007)</TD></TR><TR class=data1><TD class=left noWrap>year 2008</TD><TD>3</TD><TD>3</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>12</TD><TD class=padAst>6</TD><TD>4.00</TD><TD>45</TD><TD>26.66</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>0</TD><TD style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 3px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 1px; PADDING-TOP: 1px; WHITE-SPACE: nowrap">http://stats.cricinfo.com/navigation/engine-nav/drilldown.gif (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/player/55946.html?class=2;template=results;type=batting;v iew=innings;year=2008)</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Tamim:
<TABLE class=engineTable><TBODY><TR class=data1><TD class=left noWrap>year 2007</TD><TD>21</TD><TD>21</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>455</TD><TD class=padAst>54</TD><TD>21.66</TD><TD>728</TD><TD>62.50</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>3</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>52</TD><TD>8</TD><TD style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 3px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 1px; PADDING-TOP: 1px; WHITE-SPACE: nowrap">http://stats.cricinfo.com/navigation/engine-nav/drilldown.gif (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/player/56194.html?class=2;template=results;type=batting;v iew=innings;year=2007)</TD></TR><TR class=data1><TD class=left noWrap>year 2008</TD><TD>11</TD><TD>11</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>425</TD><TD class=padAst>129</TD><TD>38.63</TD><TD>548</TD><TD>77.55</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>3</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>52</TD><TD>3</TD><TD style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 3px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 1px; PADDING-TOP: 1px; WHITE-SPACE: nowrap">http://stats.cricinfo.com/navigation/engine-nav/drilldown.gif (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/player/56194.html?class=2;template=results;type=batting;v iew=innings;year=2008)</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Shakib:
<TABLE class=engineTable><TBODY><TR class=data1><TD class=left noWrap>year 2006</TD><TD>14</TD><TD>13</TD><TD>5</TD><TD>361</TD><TD>67*</TD><TD>45.12</TD><TD>534</TD><TD>67.60</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>37</TD><TD>0</TD><TD style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 3px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 1px; PADDING-TOP: 1px; WHITE-SPACE: nowrap">http://stats.cricinfo.com/navigation/engine-nav/drilldown.gif (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/player/56143.html?class=2;template=results;type=batting;v iew=innings;year=2006)</TD></TR><TR class=data1><TD class=left noWrap>year 2007</TD><TD>23</TD><TD>23</TD><TD>4</TD><TD>607</TD><TD>134*</TD><TD>31.94</TD><TD>924</TD><TD>65.69</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>4</TD><TD>2</TD><TD>53</TD><TD>3</TD><TD style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 3px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 1px; PADDING-TOP: 1px; WHITE-SPACE: nowrap">http://stats.cricinfo.com/navigation/engine-nav/drilldown.gif (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/player/56143.html?class=2;template=results;type=batting;v iew=innings;year=2007)</TD></TR><TR class=data1><TD class=left noWrap>year 2008</TD><TD>11</TD><TD>10</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>271</TD><TD class=padAst>108</TD><TD>27.10</TD><TD>351</TD><TD>77.20</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>2</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>21</TD><TD>0</TD><TD style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 3px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 1px; PADDING-TOP: 1px; WHITE-SPACE: nowrap">http://stats.cricinfo.com/navigation/engine-nav/drilldown.gif (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/player/56143.html?class=2;template=results;type=batting;v iew=innings;year=2008)</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Note: 2008 bowling figures are better than the 2007 bowling figures. Both Average and runrate.

Mahmudullah:
Played only one game in 2007. averaged 36. Now his averaged is 45 after nine games.

Dhiman:
Averaged 15.66 in 2008.

Mushi:
<TABLE class=engineTable><TBODY><TR class=data1><TD class=left noWrap>year 2006</TD><TD>5</TD><TD>24</TD><TD>18*</TD><TD>24.00</TD><TD>0</TD><TD noWrap>-</TD><TD noWrap>-</TD><TD class=padDp2 noWrap>-</TD><TD noWrap>-</TD><TD>2</TD><TD>2</TD><TD style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 3px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 1px; PADDING-TOP: 1px; WHITE-SPACE: nowrap">http://stats.cricinfo.com/navigation/engine-nav/drilldown.gif (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/player/56029.html?class=2;template=results;type=allround; view=innings;year=2006)</TD></TR><TR class=data1><TD class=left noWrap>year 2007</TD><TD>23</TD><TD>326</TD><TD class=padAst>57</TD><TD>21.73</TD><TD>0</TD><TD noWrap>-</TD><TD noWrap>-</TD><TD class=padDp2 noWrap>-</TD><TD noWrap>-</TD><TD>17</TD><TD>4</TD><TD style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 3px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 1px; PADDING-TOP: 1px; WHITE-SPACE: nowrap">http://stats.cricinfo.com/navigation/engine-nav/drilldown.gif (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/player/56029.html?class=2;template=results;type=allround; view=innings;year=2007)</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
no Stats for 2008.

Fazal
May 19, 2008, 01:04 PM
How about SN?

BANFAN
May 19, 2008, 01:06 PM
If you think that way that that sidon has made a positive impact then thats fine lets talk about that aspect. But don;t tell me he is not goo enough coach because he hurting our players feeling.

For teams like us we need to see individual player's improvement also (along with team's over all performance),. Now an individual player can do better or worse and it may have nothing to do with the coach. Lets recognize that also. Plus unlike what Miraz said, lest not lalk about improveing players technique. beacuse even its very important that the coach help the players (in technical aspect) it may take us nio where when we agrue two opposite ends. Any improvment ( technical or non-technical) will show in players scoreboard.

Can you please tell me based on your opinion which players performed better or worse based on last one year?

I think that will help us to agree or not with the statement that

" If sidon havemade any positive impact on the team".

That's an important area (Moral and self belief) that he is hurting severely

Apart from that: The team performance in all three department (Bat/Ball/Field) is on the decline. Playing the right combination, Reading the match conditions etc are proven deficiencies.

Individual performance: well a very few might do well (Tamim/Sakib-May be), but definitely majority graphs are, same / downwards, as the team performances are downwards.

I am not getting a single area which is positive. Except some people say that he will give good result in the long term. Which could just be an unfulfiled expectation. How long are we ready to tolerate or how long the cric world is ready to see the national team getting hammered? While we needed to hold our current state and then make gradual improvement.

The coaches who are effective in long term, they are more suitable for the lower age group teams, IMO. So even if I agree with those who suggest that he will be effective over a long period of time, I have to say that he is unsuitable for the national team.

Fazal
May 19, 2008, 01:20 PM
That's an important area (Moral and self belief) that he is hurting severely

Thats your opinion based on what you see (first hand in game) and what you read in the newspaper, right? Personally I tend to disagree. I think we are pampered too much, Its time to face the real world and the reality check what it takes to be a national player in the highest level.





Apart from that: The team performance in all three department (Bat/Ball/Field) is on the decline. Playing the right combination, Reading the match conditions etc are proven deficiencies.

Overall fielding, yes.

batting & bowling? I would rather analyse individually.



Individual performance: well a very few might do well (Tamim/Sakib-May be), but definitely majority graphs are, same / downwards, as the team performances are downwards.

I would add mahmuduallh did pretty good. SN kind of regained a bit of form. Zunaid in ODI definitely failing, but then aagain he never get it going in ODI yet. may be people can agrue that Zunaid is not ready yet for natinial and Siddon single handedly choose Zunaid.


Bowling wise Sahadat and Farhad performed very well. mashrafee was spotty.
Razzak was ineffective. Afater injury Rasel struggled and didn;t enough games to judge. mahmudullah may turn out to be a good all rounder.

Ash was kind of failed. Aftab definetiley failed.




Except some people say that he will give good result in the long term. Which could just be an unfulfiled expectation. How long are we ready to tolerate or how long the cric world is ready to see the national team getting hammered? While we needed to hold our current state and then make gradual improvement.


May be you are right, may be he will fail. But historically we have given too much time to our players so why not give hime one more year? I agree with you that Siddon disapointed me a bit, but I will wait one more year before I will ask change.

Eshen
May 19, 2008, 01:27 PM
It's ok with me that Siddons lacks motivational skills. Not every international coach in the world are good motivational speakers, yet many of them are highly successful. But it just pisses me off to see him trying to convince people scoring 200+ runs on some of the flattest cricket pitches (where opposition scored 300+ in every opportunity they got) is an improvement. Apparently he is successful convincing Ashraful and Aftab. BCB needs to tell him to stop making this kind of loserish statements.

RazabQ
May 19, 2008, 01:55 PM
Umm someone go and read Shakib's comment that JS has helped him fix his technique to play pace better. There you go, at lease one player who has benefited. I'd argue Tamim's technique is tighter as well these days.

Foozy
May 19, 2008, 02:50 PM
The way I look at it, there is actually a lot of improvement in batting and technique. Some may be more apparent than others. Bowling, fielding and team spirit is going down, down, and deeper down.

That brings me to the conclusion that no he is not head coach material, and no he should not be influencing the team batting and bowling line up. But he is a perfect batting coach. And yes in that regime he does have all the rights to blame players for their worthless ways.

In my understanding, we need a simple head coach, not even a very fancy one. Maybe someone like Nannu would be good enough. But Siddons should be retained as batting coach, which he is doing a splendid job of.

On a different note, Siddons has enlightened us with some of the players' capabilities. We now know that we can trust Farhad with the ball when we need to. When rassel makes a come-back, we will go back to more economy and wickets. (Which btw does not require 140+ speed L-)). Mahmudullah and Sakib also make a good contribution. With Razzak and MaMu back to form, we will pretty much be set for good ODI bowling. [Thats correct we are pretty much playing without our 3 best bowlers at this moment]

The batting department definitely needs to give Ash and Aftab some ultimatums. The rest are actually showing gradual improvements - barring BigZ. With these 2 performing regularly, or any replacements making even 20 odd runs regularly, you can go from a 210 to a 250 or more which can make a huge difference.

At this point however, I feel that Siddons should not be completely removed because it will seriously hamper the steady learning curve that Tamim, Mahmudullah, Farhad, and a few other "coachable" players are presenting to us.

Zobair
May 19, 2008, 03:24 PM
I would wait about 18 months before passing judgment on Siddons.

nasimul
May 19, 2008, 03:34 PM
I believe a Siddon's style coaching will benefit us for the long run.

Some symptom: Some cricketers are getting dropped from the club cricket because of their batting performance!!!

Isnaad
May 19, 2008, 03:41 PM
I am losing faith on him. Someone should boost the players' confidence.

reyme
May 19, 2008, 03:44 PM
I would wait about 18 months before passing judgment on Siddons.

(Excluding IRE)
7 months, 3 Series, 3 series defeat, 3 whitewash, 5 test loss, 11 ODI loss and most with very much one sided affair. No morale, no self belief, poor batting, bowling, fielding.

On top of that, poor team selection, clueless gameplans, no clue about opposition.

Now let multiply that with 3: you get the same. No need to wait 18 months. By then everyhtung will be gone: Test staus, ODI status, Takku Siddons, maybe even Banglacricket (hope not) and the many of the loyal fans

Only beneficiary is Mr Siddons himself: he gets to make additional $300K for lecturing us how pathetic we the loser fans are, for expecting a win or two here and there!

Have fun!

akabir77
May 19, 2008, 03:47 PM
Tell me why the hell the selectors r thinking about bring in another young guy for Sakib?
What bringing in a young guy will change the batting? I mean what do they smoke?

reyme
May 19, 2008, 03:50 PM
Haire bangali!!
Without knowing properly how to play cricket, self belief or whatever you say can't make a good cricket team. To become a consistently performing team knowing how to play cricket is much more important than all the postive lectures or believe. .

If not knowing proper cricket can take us at the second round of world cricket and beat mighty IND, SA and NZ in a warm up match, then we are better off not knowing proper cricket. I dont want to learn that kind of cricket where we get whitewashed every series, and become a laughing stock.

Inject the morale destrying lecture i.e. the virus to the world champions mighty Aussies in their brain for a few months, they will soon become an associate team in no time.

reyme
May 19, 2008, 03:55 PM
But now comes the real hard question. What we do? Who we bring in? No body wants the job.

Who wants the job? Ope n it for all, you will get 140 Million aplicatnd from BD alone? I mean $200K per year! Are you kidding me :lol:

I sincerely beg to differer. Given the right salary and benefits, we can defintely attract a world class coach. John Wright comes to my mind. Tim Moody woyuld be better and the list is much longer than we think. Its all about money Fazal bhai.

mafizraju
May 19, 2008, 04:19 PM
I see Fazal Bhai fighting a lone battle. But why the rest of the the members are so pissed off at siddons?

Is it just the pakistan tour? Before pakistan tour we said he has not had enough time to settle down. and now we are saying that he is demoralising our team!!!!

He reminds me of Gordon G as well, who talked about overall improvement. our BCB offficials didnot like approach. But had we listened to him back in 97-98 would not have gone through this all over again. "Burlow did a good job in development but the poor fellow fell in sick and couldnot finish his job."

I mean true coaching australian team is not the same as coaching BD team. But both siddons and BCB thought he should be good enough. Maybe as assistant coach JS didnot have to deal with media much, so he may not be very apt with handling media. But even Bucanan spoke very highly of him and said that Cricket australia should have done more to keep him in australia.

Let face it. No married coach would like to stay in BD without taking lot of vacation. JS has a young family. I mean if the condition of Dhaka was like condition of Mumbai, you could have probably ask the whole family to be there once in a while and take less of vacation. That is one of the reason why coaches will coast more in Bangladesh, because they have to leave all of their families abroad, obviously unless you are getting another Mohsin Kamal (Mr Sidha Khelo").

Mcinnes was a good coach for u19 team and he has done good work with those kids. I think every coach should be given at least a year before judging any thing at all regarding his ability. Within the one year time frame the evolution should be done only to see whether is he missing any apparatus or not to reach the goal of his improvement.

He must get his time with the team. And btw why the hell we are not yelling to the club cricket officials or BCB to immediately change the playing and training gorund. Clubs still do practice in cement pitch.

I mean the amount of thread we have spent of Ashraful and now with JS, if we have had spent half the threads regarding the Club crickets inability to probide better trainning facilities and BCB's inability to improve the condition of Domestic League. after 10 years we still dont have a professional structure or professional cricket training places apart from national team members training ground and training for BKSP students.

Should we not be dedicating all our energy and threads asking for those changes to be made if we all wanted to see improvement of the team and the cricket of bangladesh as a whole? (and dont talk about wasim akram or ranatunga playing in our domestic league. Wasim hardly took any wicket if he was even bowling seriously and was flown in for 2/3 matches. ranatunga was a disappointment too in domestic leage. Only Faribrother was successfull and other low key international recruit was successful)

name me another test playing nation where there premier leage clubs train on concrete pitches and matches are being played on underprepared and low quality pitches. and gets paid 120TK to play a 4 day match, a first class match (even if it is 1200TK whats the difference 10 first class matches yeilds only 12000 if you are selected for the first 11 that is) .


but noooooo!!!! we all want instant mix. as if Coaches comes with "Jadur Gola". "Drink one and get three generated in your stomach for free."

Fazal
May 19, 2008, 04:46 PM
I sincerely beg to differer. Given the right salary and benefits, we can defintely attract a world class coach. John Wright comes to my mind. Tim Moody woyuld be better and the list is much longer than we think. Its all about money Fazal bhai.

John Wright rejected us once. Right? No wellknown coach will come here and risk his hard earned reputation even if you throw more money than establsihed teams. Its a No-Win situation for them after Dav did occational "miracle" out of nothing. You have to dazzle them with lots of money. And if you do that, you may end up with wrong kind of griddy caoch who will take more vacation and milk more money than Siddon is supposedly milking.

To get more, we all need to go through the pain of realizing our current player's limitations. Now ai am not saying Siddon is the right choice to take us to our long term goal... what I am saying is even the best will have to go through a long term rebuilding process....and at the end Ash/Afatb and may be mashrafee most likely will not be part of the final team (in long run) that will bring us competative games.

mafizraju
May 19, 2008, 04:54 PM
Tell me why the hell the selectors r thinking about bring in another young guy for Sakib?
What bringing in a young guy will change the batting? I mean what do they smoke?


I would say include kapali and Rahim. Rahim can come instead of Big Z(if coach wants to drop him that is) and also look at Nafis Iqbal. We have spent awful lot of resource on that kid. I dont remember after he lost his place from national team he has not been given enough tranning to get back. This is another fundamental problem of BCB.

BD-Shardul
May 19, 2008, 05:20 PM
Originally Posted by Fazal
Siddon keno... Siddon-er Baba combined with Dav-er Baba-o amader talented experienced player-der change kortey parbey na.

As I said once, "coach jobai koira khaiye dileo amader moronder kono unnoti hobe kina Allah malum".

Originally Posted by Fazal
Ashraful is no Bashar. Nor is he Rafiq, Gullu or Pilot. They may have limited skills, but they gave 100% and was eager to learn. They saved the team from total disaster. Now non of them are there anymore to save our as*.


[বাংলা]মামু, দাঁত তাকতে কী মানুষ দাঁতের মর্যাদা বোঝে?[/বাংলা]

Originally Posted by Miraz
Self-esteem and winning mentality are more precious than techniques to win matches.


Absolutely. The way our players speak, ie, being satisfied after scoring 57 in 5 matches (aftab) or reaching double figures (ash) cleary puts a question mark on their self esteem.


Originally Posted by Fazal
So far we did pampering. So what Pampering gave us so far?
We had one Ashraful to deal before, now we have two fools. You do more pampering? Pretty soon you will have a team with 11 fools.

We made Ashraful the highest scorer a "bir sreshtho" after WC 2007.


Originally Posted by Miraz
"You are a bunch of losers, how dare you dream to win!!", that's the message Siddon's is giving out. This is not tough love or anything similar.

True. Siddon's primary job:

01. Constantly reminding us that we are 9th ranked team.
02. Our facility is insifficient.
03. Most of our player average 20.
04. Taking vacation on regular basis.
05. Making fans and media realistic.

His secondary job: Coaching BD players.

Originally Posted by Fazal
Just face it..... nobody wants to be our coach.

Dav ran away the first chance he got....even taking a job to coach Inidan u-19 team.

Love it or hate it, this is the biggest truth. Time for us to apoint a deshi coach, work hard, improve and show that world what we are capable of :( :lol:

Originally Posted by Miraz
That's your speculation and devoid of any truth.

We made significant leaps in the last few years of his tenure.

It is not the money actually. Dav did understand what was going to happen. He infact knew that our cricket was in a breaking point. In fact I was also feeling that. Bashar and SN suddenly stopped performing, Pilot was out of the scene, Rafiq was aging, Ash was the same Ash. Then Dav left, Ash was made the new captain. Entered new coach and selectors. Biased selectors removed Rafiq forcibly. JS destroyed the career of Rasel. Rajin and JO is nowhere near the scene. Pilot, despite his grit, determination, and performance in the national league was not considered. And the outcome: the current situation.

Originally Posted by Foozy
The way I look at it, there is actually a lot of improvement in batting and technique. Some may be more apparent than others. Bowling, fielding and team spirit is going down, down, and deeper down.

Bowling and Fielding went down the hill. I am still not convinvced of batting improvemnt. Except for Tamim, it is the usual story: Some flashy performance of Shakib, Riyad, Ash. Team performance remained same. How many times we crossed 200 in ODIs that we played under JS? Only 7 out of 15 times including the matches against IRE. Taking those matches out, it is 4 out 12 times. And crossing 200, how this could be a standard of improvement for a Test playing country?

cricket_dorshok
May 19, 2008, 08:15 PM
If not knowing proper cricket can take us at the second round of world cricket and beat mighty IND, SA and NZ in a warm up match, then we are better off not knowing proper cricket. I dont want to learn that kind of cricket where we get whitewashed every series, and become a laughing stock.

Inject the morale destrying lecture i.e. the virus to the world champions mighty Aussies in their brain for a few months, they will soon become an associate team in no time.

Thats what (and your pampered Ash/Aftab) are doing. Yes, one win and 2nd round! Why don't you mention that we also lost to Ireland. What heroics made us surrender to Irish. With an average of 20 for a cricketers who has been playing for over 7 years and 115 ODI, you are worshipping him. And if this is your standard, you will always be a laughing stock. We had a numerous praising article, thread, reports in every shorts of media after Ash's innings against SA. How many times did we discuss, scrutinise his innings against Irish and other stupid innings? We always do "jabor kata" on once in a blue moon innings ignoring the numerous failing innings. Unless we stop this pampering, we are no where to go. Bye the way, what morale destroying lecture make them non-performing for Mohamedan!

If national captaincy is not enough to perform for your country, then you are simply incompetent to represent your country.

Pundit
May 19, 2008, 08:24 PM
For a country that cannot even keep a President or PM for a full term, all this is hardly surprising.

What's more disgusting is that many of you now want Whatmore - the person you were getting ready to lynch a year back. Whatmore did not want to stay with us - understand that clearly. He had fully understood that we had reached our limits. And that's what most of you were mouthing while loading your guns to chase him out. Also, he simply wanted the bigger price - India and the $$$.

I recall in college how an assistant coach stormed into the corridor to break down down a football player's door one fine Sunday morning. He grabbed the snoozing ball player's head and pushed him out into the sunny morning, hurtling foul mouthed abuse - all for skipping practice. And you all want to give your tender love smooches to our 20 year old sweeties.

What Whatmore did was the easy part - now when we need to take ourselves to the next level, and the going get's tough, we break into tears - especially for the fans who do nothing mmore than watch - this is pathetic.

I am dissapointed - especially with people like Miraz..whose lack of restraint betrays his other more respectful "credentials."

Zobair
May 19, 2008, 08:45 PM
Thank you.

I will stick to my position. You are of course welcome to stick to yours. I have followed Bangladesh cricket long enough to know that rarely is the "present" at any point in time perceived to be better than any point in the "past" by our fans. The reality is that our expectations just about outpace the actual performance of our boys almost all the time. All the dramatic arguements being made in this forum may seem accurate to many of us hurt and disappointed fans but they really don't to justice to what Siddons is trying to achieve with his boys here.

Just as with the CEO of a "growth" firm, I am inclined to give a fairly long rope to Siddons. After all we invested considerable resources and effort into his recruitment process. I just don't feel we have given him a fair "go".

Having said that I am all for constructive advice being dispensed in his direction, without quite hanging a noose in front of him yet since that kind of "pressure" does no good to anyone really.

(Excluding IRE)
7 months, 3 Series, 3 series defeat, 3 whitewash, 5 test loss, 11 ODI loss and most with very much one sided affair. No morale, no self belief, poor batting, bowling, fielding.

On top of that, poor team selection, clueless gameplans, no clue about opposition.

Now let multiply that with 3: you get the same. No need to wait 18 months. By then everyhtung will be gone: Test staus, ODI status, Takku Siddons, maybe even Banglacricket (hope not) and the many of the loyal fans

Only beneficiary is Mr Siddons himself: he gets to make additional $300K for lecturing us how pathetic we the loser fans are, for expecting a win or two here and there!

Have fun!

Gowza
May 19, 2008, 09:36 PM
tbh on the most important thing for the BD national team imo is just getting someone who will stay with the team, siddons can be as good or better than any other coach in the world but the fact that he's barely with the team pretty much makes it irrelevant. it would be better to get someone who's not quite as good of a coach but spends a lot more time with the team than a coach who's say one of the top 10 coaches in the world but only spends a couple of weeks getting ready for each series then leaves again.

improvement comes from the work done between each series, siddons actions don't agree with that. one issue is how is siddons really preparing these players for each series?

i mean siddons is never with them between each series so it's hard to believe that the players are working on their game in that time (at least not contsructively). preparation isn't the time to add things to a players game. preparation should be the time used to fine tune those changes, the players should have been working on those changes for weeks before the preparation camp. even if siddons has given them assignments while he's away, it's not nearly as good as if he's there with them.

i think the main issue with siddons is he doesn't spend enough time with the team, he might very well be a good coach but he doesn't coach them enough to find out whether his techniques are effective. i'm still giving him to the end of the year to whip the team into better shape, if we don't see improvements by then i think it's fair to say he's not the right man to be head coach of the BD national team.

nsd3
May 19, 2008, 09:44 PM
To get more, we all need to go through the pain of realizing our current player's limitations.... what I am saying is even the best will have to go through a long term rebuilding process....and at the end Ash/Afatb and may be mashrafee most likely will not be part of the final team (in long run) that will bring us competative games.
100% khati kotha! Many don't understand that but then again it's all part of the process of rebuilding. I feel refreshed that not all are acting as cry babies.

al Furqaan
May 19, 2008, 09:52 PM
wow, 52 replies off just 53 views on this thread. with this single from me its now, 53 off 54. impressive strike rate.

300 is on the cards...keep it up fellows.

bujhee kom
May 19, 2008, 09:57 PM
i am with fazal mama, cricket_dorshok, zobair and razab bhai.
my point is no matter how hard the going gets, rewards will be there. it's still too early to judge siddons. i still believe that his method of training is very good and we will see the benifit soon.
achcha fazal mama, ei hashita ki amader mami-er naki?

Sohel
May 19, 2008, 10:19 PM
FGS guys !

It's not about the "past" versus the "present" or canning somebody at all IMHO.

It's about Coach Siddons 1) paying a bit more attention to statistical details as they relate to some of the "cultural sensitivity" issues, 2) not taking too many vacations too soon when he is needed, 3) being aware of the real fine line that exists between the absolutely necessary "tough love" and the"abuse" due to appraisal and affirmations without BALANCE, and subsequently 4) becoming a MORE EFFECTIVE coach for for a very young and immature Bangladeshi team.

Peace ... :)

RazabQ
May 19, 2008, 10:33 PM
Really, I was under the impression that Dav was not popular when he left. This all reminds me about the communists victory in the elections after Glasnost did not yield a big bang payoff in the first few years of Perestroika. Now look at Russia ...

Whatmore took us as far as you could with a bunch of talented but weak-kneed and weak-minded bunch who needed psycho-mumbo jumbo to pull off the occasional big win. We need to move to the next stage and I'm willing to give Mr. vacation a little bit of rope on that.

AsifTheManRahman
May 19, 2008, 11:20 PM
A wise man once said, "Beat your kids". Russell Peters was right. All this criticism - constructive or not - will keep the receivers on their toes. Whether they deserve it is immaterial. Beat them even if they haven't done anything wrong. If tough love's what you want, no one shall be spared.

BD-Shardul
May 20, 2008, 12:23 AM
A wise man once said, "Beat your kids". Russell Peters was right. All this criticism - constructive or not - will keep the receivers on their toes. Whether they deserve it is immaterial. Beat them even if they haven't done anything wrong. If tough love's what you want, no one shall be spared.

Spare the rod, spoils the child.

sunny747
May 20, 2008, 01:14 AM
Really, I was under the impression that Dav was not popular when he left. This all reminds me about the communists victory in the elections after Glasnost did not yield a big bang payoff in the first few years of Perestroika. Now look at Russia ...

Whatmore took us as far as you could with a bunch of talented but weak-kneed and weak-minded bunch who needed psycho-mumbo jumbo to pull off the occasional big win. We need to move to the next stage and I'm willing to give Mr. vacation a little bit of rope on that.

very good one.

Foozy
May 20, 2008, 03:54 AM
FGS guys !

It's not about the "past" versus the "present" or canning somebody at all IMHO.

It's about Coach Siddons 1) paying a bit more attention to statistical details as they relate to some of the "cultural sensitivity" issues, 2) not taking too many vacations too soon when he is needed, 3) being aware of the real fine line that exists between the absolutely necessary "tough love" and the"abuse" due to appraisal and affirmations without BALANCE, and subsequently 4) becoming a MORE EFFECTIVE coach for for a very young and immature Bangladeshi team.

Peace ... :)

Haha, I was thinking of the exact same thing when I read the last couple of posts. The story is gradually changing, and along with it... the gist of the story.

Its like the game of "chineese whisper" where people sit in a long line, and the first person whispers something to the second. The second whispers the same thing to the third, and so on till the end of the row. At the end of the game u compare what the first person said to what the last person heard, and usually the whole sentence is changed. Funny stuff.

Nevertheless, very interesting thread, and a lovely debate going on. Fazal mamu was the lone warrior at that end, but it seems like he has gathered a few comrades along the way ;) lmao

BD-Shardul
May 20, 2008, 04:16 AM
Nevertheless, very interesting thread, and a lovely debate going on. Fazal mamu was the lone warrior at that end, but it seems like he has gathered a few comrades along the way ;) lmao

Nope, I am behind Mamu :D

BANFAN
May 20, 2008, 04:51 AM
.............................
but noooooo!!!! we all want instant mix. as if Coaches comes with "Jadur Gola". "Drink one and get three generated in your stomach for free."

A coach for the national team, should have the ability to keep the current status of the team atleast, isn't it. Allegation is not that he should have made some vissible improvement, rathar, "He is damaging the team's Moral, self belief, desire to win" some of which are pretty time consuming to reinstall.

He is forcing us all to believe that we can't and shouldn't think to win, while the players have done it in the past and have started believing that they can win. He is trying to take us back to the days of looser mentality, we all know how painfully we have moved passed that phase.

So far JS presents: "A bunch of young boys playing cricket like old hags with hanging faces and lathergic movements, waiting for a Shommanjonok porajoy, by scoring 200 runs." atleast this situation could be avoided. Hope that's not expecting a 'Jadur Gola' ?

BANFAN
May 20, 2008, 05:26 AM
For a country that cannot even keep a President or PM for a full term, all this is hardly surprising.

Very wrongly quoted, Many of BD prime, ministers and persidents have completed their terms. infact from 1990 all governments have completed their terms. Unfortunately Pak being 2ice our age, havn't yet completed any term of president, parliament or PM. Mosha will be the first one if he does, but he is also threatened. That didnot stop pak to win world cup. So I don't even get any relation between these two other than self demeaning attitude.

What's more disgusting is that many of you now want Whatmore - the person you were getting ready to lynch a year back. Whatmore did not want to stay with us - understand that clearly. He had fully understood that we had reached our limits. And that's what most of you were mouthing while loading your guns to chase him out. Also, he simply wanted the bigger price - India and the $$$.

Everyone appreciated whatmore's contribution in BC atleast. I haven't seen any public humiliation of whatmore though. That may be his personal decision and may be the board wanted to try a new coach or didn't accept his new conditions, whatever. But lynching him a year back? I don't think that was the situation.

I recall in college how an assistant coach stormed into the corridor to break down down a football player's door one fine Sunday morning. He grabbed the snoozing ball player's head and pushed him out into the sunny morning, hurtling foul mouthed abuse - all for skipping practice. And you all want to give your tender love smooches to our 20 year old sweeties.

Your example is irrelevant here. I havn't heard of siddons getting tough with the players for not performing, Calling for extra practices, Long and tougher practice sessions... anything of that sort. I only hear him saying, to believe that we are not capable of winning against anyone and if we could make 200 runs that's an achievement. The performance graph of the team is showing the output. Aren't you comparing apple to orange?

What Whatmore did was the easy part - now when we need to take ourselves to the next level, and the going get's tough, we break into tears - especially for the fans who do nothing mmore than watch - this is pathetic.

Here you go. We Bangalis always forget the past.

We even didn't have players to hold bat properly and shommanjonok porajoy was celebrated in public, he has tought us to win and be competitive. Now we expect the new coach to hold the current situation and make it more consistent. I don't say that it is easy, but it is not by any definition tougher than whatmore's time. What is the next level that he is taking us by deterioration of performance? Do you expect that suddenly one fine morning we will see players hitting centuries out of the wreckage? or should we forget the definition of performance/improvement? or May be It's all magic that JS will show us!! WOW

[/QUOTE]

Pundit
May 20, 2008, 07:32 AM
Very wrongly quoted, Many of BD prime, ministers and persidents have completed their terms. infact from 1990 all governments have completed their terms. Unfortunately Pak being 2ice our age, havn't yet completed any term of president, parliament or PM. Mosha will be the first one if he does, but he is also threatened. That didnot stop pak to win world cup. So I don't even get any relation between these two other than self demeaning attitude.
[/quote]

Thanks for the lesson in history. Did not know there was a country called Pakistan - and let alone win a world cup. But let us see what indicators we have of our own that explain our long lack of successes ?

Pundit
May 20, 2008, 07:38 AM
Here you go. We Bangalis always forget the past.

We even didn't have players to hold bat properly and shommanjonok porajoy was celebrated in public, he has tought us to win and be competitive. Now we expect the new coach to hold the current situation and make it more consistent. I don't say that it is easy, but it is not by any definition tougher than whatmore's time. What is the next level that he is taking us by deterioration of performance? Do you expect that suddenly one fine morning we will see players hitting centuries out of the wreckage? or should we forget the definition of performance/improvement? or May be It's all magic that JS will show us!! WOW

[/quote]

I grew up in a mofosshaal cheetee - seldom gettin bhat over two consecutive belas. I do want to forget the past. That's what makes me a Bengali. But now I will head out and practice cricket, better, so that I play well next time.

"I don't say that it is easy, but it is not by any definition tougher than whatmore's time."

You just answered why you ought to have a little more patience. How long was Whatmore's time BTW - sorry, I was still in my mofoshaal cheeti back when it all started.

BANFAN
May 20, 2008, 08:23 AM
Thats your opinion based on what you see (first hand in game) and what you read in the newspaper, right? Personally I tend to disagree.

The body language of the players in the field and the nature of fielding should inciate a deficiency in moral. IMO

I think we are pampered too much, Its time to face the real world and the reality check what it takes to be a national player in the highest level.

Agree 100% on pampering issue. But I don't consider JS actions as being tough. Seeing improvement in 200 runs and trying to make them believe that they can't win. I don't think that is being tough or preparing for the highest level. He should be tough and make the players work harder to achieve the highest standard, how can he be tough by lowering the standards.

Overall fielding, yes.

batting & bowling? I would rather analyse individually.

I would add mahmuduallh did pretty good. SN kind of regained a bit of form. Zunaid in ODI definitely failing, but then aagain he never get it going in ODI yet. may be people can agrue that Zunaid is not ready yet for natinial and Siddon single handedly choose Zunaid.

Bowling wise Sahadat and Farhad performed very well. mashrafee was spotty.
Razzak was ineffective. Afater injury Rasel struggled and didn;t enough games to judge. mahmudullah may turn out to be a good all rounder. Ash was kind of failed. Aftab definetiley failed.

We can look at both infact. Team to me is more important an indicator as some individual heroics may not give us the right picture. Performance of the team has gone down, only TI has a improved record as per the stats provided by T_E. Bowling wise also the team performance has deteriorated. Farhad performed well in one match. Shahadat is the only improvement possibly.

May be you are right, may be he will fail. But historically we have given too much time to our players so why not give hime one more year? I agree with you that Siddon disapointed me a bit, but I will wait one more year before I will ask change.

I guess we don't have any choice now, but I think BCB should intervene and atleast siddons should know that he needs to show improvement from where he took over, not use the stats of last 10 years to his advantage. We all know how bad we were at the begining and what it was when he took over, after the world cup. And stop all these holidays, Demoralizing statements and excuses for poor performances. I don't mind of course if BCB removes him, as I am not at all hopeful that he can bring any big improvement with such attitude and low expectations.

BANFAN
May 20, 2008, 08:47 AM
Quote: Pundit
I grew up in a mofosshaal cheetee - How long was Whatmore's time BTW [/QUOTE]

Ami tokhon Gerame chilam bhai,

How many times did Whatmore say that we can't win and if we try to win means we don't understand cricket?

Must be every day.

Sorry i missed it, oi shomoy amader GERAME NY Times ashto na.

If you know please calculate, how many times we have to hear these words from JS, in as many years as Whatmore spent here.

Amgo Gerame, Bhanur Doirjer Koutuk ta khub cholto; "Dekhi na ki kore"

reyme
May 20, 2008, 10:04 AM
[quote=Fazal;690175]No wellknown coach will come here and risk his hard earned reputation even if you throw more money than establsihed teams. Its a No-Win situation for them after Dav did occational "miracle" out of nothing. You have to dazzle them with lots of money. And if you do that, you may end up with wrong kind of griddy caoch who will take more vacation and milk more money than Siddon is supposedly milking. quote]

Wrong observation. Its all about the money, system, rules and regulations. Thats why you see the laziest of a subcontinent fella pulling 18 hours a day in NYC driving cab, who would otherwise might just as well be thief since thats easy money in Kolkata.
Given the right salary and opportunity (IPL), we can definitely attract quality coaches. And you need to be a prefessional recruiter too, make it a point that they will gain a lot coaching BD. Trust me money talks. Who would thought all the players wil run to India to play IPL just 5 years ago? There are only 10 teams in the world for crying out loud.
About the milking part, the more your salaries are the harder the rules should get. NBA/NFL players counts fines in few hundred thousand dollars. Have the contract written out by professional sports lawyers.

reyme
May 20, 2008, 10:20 AM
[quote=Pundit;690204]What's more disgusting is that many of you now want Whatmore - the person you were getting ready to lynch a year back. Whatmore did not want to stay with us - understand that clearly.
What Whatmore did was the easy part - now when we need to take ourselves to the next level, and the going get's tough, we break into tears - especially for the fans who do nothing mmore than watch - this is pathetic.
quote]

Dont make an orange out of an apple. Nobody here saying they wanted Whatmore. He was a professional and moved on. Lot of people did not like his attitute towards the end. But you are missing the point completely. Have you even read the article by Utpol or jumped on the wagon to start an argument?

What whatmore did everybody knows. A totally fragile team toured Australia under his leadership and showed tremendous courage when people thought they could beat BD in test within a day! Forgot? And then during the last 2.5 year before Jamie, BD showed several performance worth talking about. And now the way team is performing as if we wnet 10 years back, worskt of all the body language of the player shos they are not there to even compete.

Wahtmore was a great motivator, he was not taking vacation every 4 weeks, he was focusing on building a team, making the team believe that they can also win and coaching them accordingly, and thats why he is being discussed here.

If whatever whatmore did was an easy part how come Siddons can do that easy part even? All I see he takes vacation and complains. I know these type of people, they talk a lot, complain all the time and towards the end, the result is zero. After 1.5 yeras this guy will leave BD team saying all the players, fans, BCB are bunch of losers hence he could not succeed. You will see.

Beamer
May 20, 2008, 12:04 PM
ato lafa lafi chilla chilli for what? Whatmore? oh that guy? You mean the guy who dangled his carrot with a rod every time the neighbors door cracked open a bit, only to be slammed shut, thus refusing entry. However, the repeated attempts finally managed to land the carrot inside , but not in the mansion, but inside the doors of the outhouse, where workers quarter are located. That guy?

kalpurush
May 20, 2008, 02:44 PM
That's not true. Dav had some initial proposal of pay rise and we declined his offer.

After the initial proposal got rejected, Dav decided to move on. India job prospect was certainly a reason and that simply ruined Dav's reputation.

Ironically, we are paying Siddons more than Dav's demand.
Thats what we do best as a Bangladeshi. Samone diye mosha gele khop kore dhore feli, kintu pechone diye hati geleo dekhi na! :hairpull::notworthy:

nsd3
May 20, 2008, 08:57 PM
Comparing Whatmore era with Siddons period (less than a year even!!!) is not gonna give a reasonable platform for analysis. If anyone missing this point should realize that all should wait and see. 'Wait n See' is hard when there is no int'l criket for BD - that's understandable. Let's hope for the best and suggest ways how to help our team (in a way the coach as well) to prepare better.

Gowza
May 20, 2008, 11:43 PM
i can guarantee you that if a player really wants to be playing cricket and achieve their potential they won't need someone else to motivate them. you can find motivation out of anything if you look for it, the thing is though for the motivation to last it has to come from within not externally from say a coach. siddons can put something on the table which helps motivate a player but unless they take it and use it to drive themsevles then what siddons does won't help them.

anyway, from what siddons has said in the media, the national players should have got as much motivation as they needed. if siddons is telling the world how bad these players are then they should use that to motivate themselves so they can prove him wrong. if a player can't motivate themselves then they're in the wrong profession.

kalpurush
May 21, 2008, 12:02 AM
A wise man once said, "Beat your kids". Russell Peters was right. All this criticism - constructive or not - will keep the receivers on their toes. Whether they deserve it is immaterial. Beat them even if they haven't done anything wrong. If tough love's what you want, no one shall be spared.
A Ten Grand post.:up:

Foozy
May 21, 2008, 01:32 AM
Comparing Whatmore era with Siddons period (less than a year even!!!) is not gonna give a reasonable platform for analysis. If anyone missing this point should realize that all should wait and see. 'Wait n See' is hard when there is no int'l criket for BD - that's understandable. Let's hope for the best and suggest ways how to help our team (in a way the coach as well) to prepare better.

The problem here is that during this waiting period, we are not even getting any news of the players practicing with the coach. Instead the coach is taking his luxurious vacations - thats not understandable. Thats just professionalism on JS's part. He doesn't even care about how the team performs. All he cares is to spend the least amount of time required and get his salary.

As a coach, or as a Bangladeshi coach rather, he needs to 'care more'! He needs to know the players... even those that are not in the playing eleven, so that if the time comes to replace someone he should know who to take in. Or if someone is doing exceptionally well he should take that person into account.
He should even know what kind of matches are played in the premiere league. Maybe that is the reason that the players 'lose the touch'... well he should find out about these things and make the necessary suggestions.

Basically his job is to improve the team, and thats why he is being paid, not to whine and make random excuses every time.

After a very long run on the run-way... we were finally getting the feeling of 'taking off'. Lets hope we don't crash-land from such a small height with Siddons being our pilot :)

Gowza
May 21, 2008, 02:57 AM
exactly, his job is to improve the team, the biggest problem with him is the vacations. when you get right down to it all he does is coach preparation camps and the actual series. improvement comes from hard work in between these times so siddons really isn't putting a good enough time effort into the team imo. you can't add/change things to a players game during preparation and expect them to do them well during the series, they need to be added and practiced before preparation camps and then fine tuned during preparation for a series.

Abd_Bakri
May 21, 2008, 03:01 AM
well... first i have to say that was a great atricle on prothom alo... secondly... i see there are quite a few ardent supporters of siddons... well obviously everyone is entitled to their own opinion... so im sure they have their reason... but being a bangladeshi cricket freak over the years i believe this has been the worst season for us since 2003... this is almost like the pre-dave era... when dav came on... i was soo happy as i saw what he did with the lankans... he said he couldnt do anything magical with the team... he would need some time... he showed us the result in short span of time... the pakistan series in 2003 or 04... what a great series... we almost defeated them in test and challenged them in odisl... in WI series... we almost defeated them in a test and pushed them in Odis... we defeated Zimbabwe every other time... We pushed any team we played be it Australia, or South Africa or even England (the wc 07 game)... now i dont know which players except rafiq bashar and pilot have been dropped from in this team.. its been the same team for quite a bit of time... obviously dhiman has come in... but others have been the same... and why are they are performing so low... the answer is they are being given the harsh treatment of saying O YOU GUYS ARE LOSERS YOU WILL LOSE... but they arent being given the treatment which whatmore gave them... in the article it said... when whatmore lost a match he broke all hell lose on the players... and he made it clear that we are in the international arena to win... what that did... we won games and pushed teams in odis on regular basis... i just finished a course this semester on leadership... one of the important task of a leader is having a clear vision in his mind about his team and making everyone in the team believe in that vision... do we know what siddon's vision is? TO LOSE? are we paying all that much money to bully us... i dont know why our stupid board did accept the pay-rise which whatmore wanted... i was in bd when he left... and i remember how badly he was seen of.... the greatest coach we had and we so badly showed him the door. anyhow... he didnt stop... he is coaching the u-19 team in india... and wow already we are seeing the results... india doing brilliant... i wish he comes back to coach sometime soon... i remember in 2007 one of the harshet critics of bd... ian chappel said in sony max after we defeated south africa... look out for these guys... they are a dangerous team... come 2011 theyll be a strong team and by 2015 they will be running for title contention... but sigh... today if he saw us he would say pathetic stuff... i say please let go of this siddons guy... try bringing whatmore... as he is unlikely to come back.. please bring mccinnes... another brilliant coach..!

abdulmukit
May 21, 2008, 04:24 AM
deleted

reyme
May 21, 2008, 04:49 AM
ato lafa lafi chilla chilli for what? Whatmore? oh that guy?

Whatmore was coaching (coaching+motivating+givingtough lessons+helping players learn mistakes+gameplans+work on strategy). Often we saw after a bad day in the field Tigers were coming back strong the following day during Whatmore's time.

Siddons is Complaining+Vacationing+Lecturing+Giving Excuses. Thats the problem. After 7 months he still could not figure out a playing 11 or 15 for that matter. How can he? He does not even know Rafiq, Mashud and anybody else outside of that top 15 players in the country! And he is national coach!

How many days Siddons spent on the field with the boys since he joined? More importantly how can you so easily forget playing 3 spinners and one pacer in PAK 1st ODI. I have never seen any coach who cares so less.

reyme
May 21, 2008, 04:57 AM
Since day 1 Siddons started to give excuses. His CD with all the national team players video footage got deleted! So he could not mentally prepare well before NZ series, he did not know any BD players, although pretty much the entire eam played agaist AUS, but he could not recall anything according to Prothom Alo interview.

Right then I knew Siddons will turn out to be all about excuses and blame games.

Tigers_eye
May 21, 2008, 09:23 AM
A wise man once said, "Beat your kids". Russell Peters was right. All this criticism - constructive or not - will keep the receivers on their toes. Whether they deserve it is immaterial. Beat them even if they haven't done anything wrong. If tough love's what you want, no one shall be spared.
mair'er upor oshud nai. Jali beth lagbey.

Beamer
May 21, 2008, 10:46 AM
Whatmore was coaching (coaching+motivating+givingtough lessons+helping players learn mistakes+gameplans+work on strategy). Often we saw after a bad day in the field Tigers were coming back strong the following day during Whatmore's time.

Siddons is Complaining+Vacationing+Lecturing+Giving Excuses. Thats the problem. After 7 months he still could not figure out a playing 11 or 15 for that matter. How can he? He does not even know Rafiq, Mashud and anybody else outside of that top 15 players in the country! And he is national coach!

How many days Siddons spent on the field with the boys since he joined? More importantly how can you so easily forget playing 3 spinners and one pacer in PAK 1st ODI. I have never seen any coach who cares so less.

From the very onset after taking over, JS let it be known that he wants a smaller squad of core players to work with, numbering 15-18 at most. Its up to the selectors to provide him that squad which they did soon as the NZ trip began. He had a look at JO , Tushar and immediately sent them packing. Other players took that vacancy. Anybody complaining about that? Its really up to the selectors who should have the internal knowledge of every player that are within the reach of national team, not Siddons, who is a new comer and who has professed from the very beginning for his desire to work with a small bench as part of his philosophy, which I agree. Pilot has not been around since WC. Its not Siddons's fault. Bashar got his run with Siddons, not because he deserved it but because he had the past reputation of run scoring. I agree, he should have known about Rafiq when he took over ( something I still don't get ) , but Rafiq's feud is with the current selectors, not him.

I think despite the results, his influence has made a positive imprint on our test fortunes. Slowly but surely one can sense a change in approach among the test players. Bar Ash, who can't be helped even by God, even Aftab is trying to play a sensible game. We do need to give the core of Tamim-Z-SN-Ash-Sakib-Aftab etc an extended run. There are no two ways about it.

His one day tactics leaves a lot to be desired and has been discussed extensively in the forum. I don't think it will work. But, five months is barely enough to make a concrete judgment, though the trend is not good.

skhondoker
May 21, 2008, 02:17 PM
From the very onset after taking over, JS let it be known that he wants a smaller squad of core players to work with, numbering 15-18 at most. Its up to the selectors to provide him that squad which they did soon as the NZ trip began. He had a look at JO , Tushar and immediately sent them packing. Other players took that vacancy. Anybody complaining about that? Its really up to the selectors who should have the internal knowledge of every player that are within the reach of national team, not Siddons, who is a new comer and who has professed from the very beginning for his desire to work with a small bench as part of his philosophy, which I agree. Pilot has not been around since WC. Its not Siddons's fault. Bashar got his run with Siddons, not because he deserved it but because he had the past reputation of run scoring. I agree, he should have known about Rafiq when he took over ( something I still don't get ) , but Rafiq's feud is with the current selectors, not him.

I think despite the results, his influence has made a positive imprint on our test fortunes. Slowly but surely one can sense a change in approach among the test players. Bar Ash, who can't be helped even by God, even Aftab is trying to play a sensible game. We do need to give the core of Tamim-Z-SN-Ash-Sakib-Aftab etc an extended run. There are no two ways about it.

His one day tactics leaves a lot to be desired and has been discussed extensively in the forum. I don't think it will work. But, five months is barely enough to make a concrete judgment, though the trend is not good.


100% AGREE.....THIS IS REALLY TRUE...TAKE THE HIT FROM SIDDONS NOW AND ACKNOWLEDGE OUR SHORTCOMINGS AND SEE THE PROGRESS....ONLY TO HOPE THAT HE KNOWS WHAT HE IS DOING AND SOMETHING WILL COME GOOD FROM THIS. I REALLY SEE OUR TEAM GETTING IN THAT LEVEL OF TEST PLAYING MENTALITY VERY SOON.

nsd3
May 22, 2008, 01:47 AM
Come All Cry Babies ... bring it on!! Where r u guys now? Just know that we're not alone! Muhhwaaaaaaa!!!!

nsd3
May 25, 2008, 07:33 PM
http://www.prothom-alo.com/archive/news_details_mcat.php?dt=2008-05-25&issue_id=933&cat_id=8&nid=MTAwMTI4&mid=OA==

Lawson took long holidays, had issues with Mudassar Nazar etc. - all of these may lead Lawson not to return to Pakistan again from his hoilday!!! If this is true - who knows what may happen to Siddons. He took frequent holidays, Team lost heavy defeats consecutively, cry babies making impatient (not thoughtful) noise....lets' see!

BANFAN
May 26, 2008, 01:24 AM
If JS quits at his own, will be a blessing for BD. b :) babies !

Pundit
May 26, 2008, 10:38 AM
I think one of Banfan's relative got turned down in his application for the coach's position, or more likely, got the boot from Siddons' coaching staff. That's why this very determined smear campaign.

DotBall
May 27, 2008, 12:32 AM
Mr. Utpal has only one good point; the self believe of our players under Siddon. Apart from that it is full of rubbish. Our players need to learn how to win games. There are many ways to win games and happy go lucky approach is definately not one of them. Siddon is not Whatmore; they have their own approachs to coaching and none of them are wrong. I think Whatmore gave us as much as he could. Without proper technique and experience our team won some matches and it was a matter of time that lack of it would have caught up with us.
Since number of wins are a lonely handful let's just look at how many losses we had with a good fight. That should give us a clue of how much we have improved and what chances we have winning the world cup in 2011. Let Siddon do his work at least for another year before criticising him for what he has done with the team. Off-course we are not a world beating team and neither do we have lots of cricket pundits and coaches with credible track record. Until we get to a respectable position nobody will take us seriously no matter who is coaching us. I think with Siddon we will see improvement in a year or 2, until then he and players should be left alone to do their job.

BANFAN
May 27, 2008, 12:55 AM
Mr. Utpal has only one good point; the self believe of our players under Siddon. Apart from that it is full of rubbish. Our players need to learn how to win games.

Don't you think that self belief is important? One can ultimately learn to win by winning. I have no clue, by repeated defeats and destroying the self belief, what 'learning to win' is happening.

I think with Siddon we will see improvement in a year or 2, until then he and players should be left alone to do their job.

Left alone to go down and down and finally to have a miraculous resurection !! If that's the theory !

BANFAN
May 27, 2008, 01:14 AM
I think one of Banfan's relative got turned down in his application for the coach's position, or more likely, got the boot from Siddons' coaching staff. That's why this very determined smear campaign.

:) Jar mone ja .......

Now I understand your logic of supporting & opposing some one.

I can relate through your corrupted thoughts, who were booted by whatmore and who got the piece of pie from JS.

'Failure is the pillar of success' 'repeated failure is stronger pillars of success (infact Earthquake protected)' etc etc kind of support must be offered to make the pies halal. That's what all BD pundits had been doing for years. Why should u be different?

Pundit
May 27, 2008, 10:16 AM
:) Jar mone ja .......

Now I understand your logic of supporting & opposing some one.

I can relate through your corrupted thoughts, who were booted by whatmore and who got the piece of pie from JS.

'Failure is the pillar of success' 'repeated failure is stronger pillars of success (infact Earthquake protected)' etc etc kind of support must be offered to make the pies halal. That's what all BD pundits had been doing for years. Why should u be different?

We are greatful that you even understand. That indeed is a good start. Channel that effort into understanding what a difficult job our coach (or any other coach, for that matter, past, present and future) has in reaping results for our team.

The fact is that JS is the coach now - he is not here to forward Mr. Whatmore's legacy vis-a-vis who plays or not. Otherwise, Bashar would still be in the team. But I do not intend to expand on that - and thus provide you with pickings for further mutiliation of what the coach and team are trying.

BD pundits or not - why are you so adamant on your thoughts here? Really, please stand back and read through your writings - will make you capture the fact that it is a literary version of our political parties' highway burning politics. That slogan of "Manbo Na, Manbo na" is quite crude everywhere...as it is in your wranglings and constant undermining of everybody else's thoughts and support presented here.

I doubt you can be encouraged to give other people the space to write and talk, but most of us here apparently will keep on doing so with our team and coach. Perhaps we need to remove that veil that so often darkens the path ahead when we are firmly rooted into the culture of the Kingdom, and let you see light and have hope.

BANFAN
May 27, 2008, 10:50 AM
I doubt you can be encouraged to give other people the space to write and talk, but most of us here apparently will keep on doing so with our team and coach. Perhaps we need to remove that veil that so often darkens the path ahead when we are firmly rooted into the culture of the Kingdom, and let you see light and have hope.

Follow your words and get out of sarcasm kingdom. So we all can have the freedom to have our opinions.

Would appreciate.

Pundit
May 27, 2008, 11:10 AM
Follow your words and get out of sarcasm kingdom. So we all can have the freedom to have our opinions.

Would appreciate.

Given what we have seen so far, are you sure you are capable of that ? Just wondering.

BANFAN
May 27, 2008, 12:13 PM
Given what we have seen so far, are you sure you are capable of that ? Just wondering.

Change, works better and lasts longer, if you are selfmotivated to bring the change for your benefit. World around you, is always what you think of it. specially when it is virtual, it is much more on you. I'm with you. A person is much more than a few words in a forum. So I believe you can also abstain from sarcasm, just if you try.

But why not, if my appreciation works, i'll always be there for you. You can count on me confidently. My heartiest advance congratulation to you. It will be a happy moment for me, that my appreciation worked for a positive change.

I wish I could send you a packet of sweets. :)

Pundit
May 27, 2008, 12:27 PM
Change, works better and lasts longer, if you are selfmotivated to bring the change for your benefit. World around you, is always what you think of it. specially when it is virtual, it is much more on you. I'm with you. A person is much more than a few words in a forum. So I believe you can also abstain from sarcasm, just if you try.

But why not, if my appreciation works, i'll always be there for you. You can count on me confidently. My heartiest advance congratulation to you. It will be a happy moment for me, that my appreciation worked for a positive change.

I wish I could send you a packet of sweets. :) Cheers man

Oh -ho : Did I need your appreciation ? I hardly know you, and even still...

Save the appreciation for Siddons. He is working for you or your country, assuming you are from Bangladesh.

reyme
May 28, 2008, 07:28 PM
Let Siddon do his work at least for another year before criticising him for what he has done with the team. I think with Siddon we will see improvement in a year or 2, until then he and players should be left alone to do their job.

Yes lets Siddons do his job:
1. 6 month vacation, one after each whitewashed series
2. Crticize players, media, fan, system, structure (expecting too much out of a team with no future), instead of actually spending time on and off the field on coaching, gameplans, and strategy.

reyme
May 28, 2008, 07:32 PM
Save the appreciation for Siddons. He is working for you or your country, assuming you are from Bangladesh.

He is not working for anybody, and definitely not for bangladesh. He is doing his job, and gets paid handsomely for it. Just becasue he is a foreigner does not mean kissing a** is a necessity.

reyme
May 28, 2008, 07:38 PM
Mr. Utpal has only one good point; the self believe of our players under Siddon. Apart from that it is full of rubbish. Our players need to learn how to win games.
Players need to learn from whom? From their wives? Or from a coach who has no self belief in himself or on his players? I thought they were winning a few, and now suddenly they have learn from the beginning?

How easily we forget clueless team selection and no brain gameplans. Have you seen their body language lately on the field in the last series? Looks a lot different than a year ago, wasn't it? Thats the point, if you have not figured out already.

Gowza
May 28, 2008, 09:19 PM
Yes lets Siddons do his job:
1. 6 month vacation, one after each whitewashed series
2. Crticize players, media, fan, system, structure (expecting too much out of a team with no future), instead of actually spending time on and off the field on coaching, gameplans, and strategy.

have to agree with this one, the vacations are ridiculous, teams doing badly so it's just silly to take a vacation when they clearly need more work. as for point #2 i know it's not his job but he'd be better off conversing with the powers that be to help improve domestic structure and things like this than commenting to the media. however i feel i have to bring up the point that some of the national players were dropped for not having enough commitment for a club team let alone a national team, so really is it any wonder they're not improving? just doesn't seem like the players are putting in the effort they should be which makes siddons job much tougher. if they don't want to put in the commitment then they shouldn't be there (the same can be said of siddons). i guess what BD needs is a passionate coach and a captian who's an absolute workhorse that way the players have good role models and influences.

Sohel
May 28, 2008, 10:11 PM
The Triangular and the Asia Cup will be the major part of the acid test for Coach Siddons.

Pundit
May 29, 2008, 10:52 AM
He is not working for anybody, and definitely not for bangladesh. He is doing his job, and gets paid handsomely for it. Just becasue he is a foreigner does not mean kissing a** is a necessity.

I'm a guy, the last time I checked ! That may appeal to you though. And if you have a color preference, the better it is for you, I suppose.

Pundit
May 29, 2008, 10:55 AM
The Triangular and the Asia Cup will be the major part of the acid test for Coach Siddons.

I agree.