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pilot fan
May 27, 2008, 05:27 AM
Dollar the only new face
TigerCricket.com Report
27-May-2008 <table class="tablestyle" id="Table3" style="border-collapse: collapse;" bordercolordark="#000080" bordercolorlight="#006699" align="right" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="120"> <tbody><tr> <td>http://www.tigercricket.com/Image/dollar_27508.jpg
</td> </tr> </tbody></table> The Bangladesh National Squads for the Tri-Nation ODI Series 2008 & Asia Cup 2008 were announced today (Tuesday). Fast bowler Dollar Mahmud was the only uncapped player in the the sides selected for the tournaments.
Wicketkeeper Mushfiqur Rahim returned to the ODI side after being dropped for the series’ against South Africa and Ireland at home. Rahim was rewarded for topping the run-scorers list in the prestigious Dhaka Premier Division Cricket League 2008. He scored 632 in 14 matches at an average of 48.61. Also coming back was Mehrab Hossain (Jr.) who will fight for the place of leading all-rounder Shakib Al Hasan who has opted out of the Tri-Series and Asia Cup because of Higher Secondary examination
commitments.
The Bangladesh A Team for the tours of Ireland and England from June-August.
Bangladesh Squad for Tri-Nation ODI Series 2008
Mohammad Ashraful (Captain), Mashrafe Bin Mortaza (Vice Captain), Mahmudullah Riyad, Tamim Iqbal, Aftab Ahmed, Abdur Razzak,
Farhad Reza, Shahriar Nafees Ahmed, Nazim Uddin, Roqibul Hassan, Shahadat Hossain, Mushfiqur Rahim (Wicketkeeper), Mehrab
Hossain (Jr.), Dollar Mahmud
Reserves:
Zunaed Siddique, Dhiman Ghosh, Rubel Hossain, Alok Kapali, Musharraf Hossain
Bangladesh Squad for Asia Cup 2008
Mohammad Ashraful (Captain), Mashrafe Bin Mortaza (Vice Captain), Mahmudullah Riyad, Tamim Iqbal, Aftab Ahmed, Abdur Razzak,
Farhad Reza, Shahriar Nafees Ahmed, Nazim Uddin, Roqibul Hassan, Shahadat Hossain, Mushfiqur Rahim (Wicketkeeper), Mehrab
Hossain (Jr.), Dollar Mahmud, Musharraf Hossain
Reserves:
Zunaed Siddique, Dhiman Ghosh, Rubel Hossain, Alok Kapali, Naeem Islam
Bangladesh A Team for Tour of Ireland 2008
1. Zunaed Siddique LHB
2. Imrul Kayes LHB
3. Shamsur Rahman Shuvo RHB
4. Alok Kapali RHB/LB
5. Jahurul Islam Omi RHB
6. Nadif Chowdhury LHB
7. Naeem Islam RHB/OB
8. Dhiman Ghosh WK/RHB
9. Rubel Hossain RFM/RHB
10. Syed Rasel LMF/LHB
11. Sohrawardi Shuvo LHB/SLA
12. Mahbubul Alam Robin RMF/RHB
13. Arafat Sunny SLA/LHB
14. Nazmul Hossain RMF/RHB
Reserves:
1. Nazmus Sadat LHB
2. Farhad Hossain RHB/OB
3. Sahagir Hossain Pavel WK/RHB
4. Deloyar Hossain RMF/RHB
5. Sajedul Islam LFM/LHB
Players to return home after the first match in England against England U 19 at Loughborough in Leicestershire:

1. Shamsur Rahman Shuvo
2. Nadif Chowdhury
3. Dhiman Ghosh
4. Jahurul Islam Omi
5. Imrul Kayes
6. Sohrawardi Shuvo
7. Arafat Sunny
8. Mahbubul Alam Robin

Bangladesh A Team for Tour of England 2008
15. Zunaed Siddique LHB
16. Tamim Iqbal LHB
17. Nazim Uddin RHB
18. Roqibul Hassan RHB
19. Naeem Islam RHB/OB
20. Mushfiqur Rahim WK/RHB
21. Alok Kapali RHB/LB
22. Rajin Salah RHB/OB
23. Musharraf Hossain Rubel SLA/LHB
24. Sajedul Islam LFM/LHB
25. Dollar Mahmud RFM/RHB
26. Nazmul Hossain RMF/RHB
27. Rubel Hossain RFM/RHB
28. Syed Rasel LMF/LHB
29. Shakib Al Hasan LHB/SLA
Note:
· Players to join the A Team from the Asia Cup Squad - Tamim Iqbal, Nazim Uddin, Roqibul Hassan, Mushfiqur Rahim,
Musharraf Hossain and Dollar Mahmud. Shakib Al Hasan will join the A Team from Dhaka after the completion of his HSC
Examination. Rajin Salah and Sajedul Islam will also join the team from Dhaka.
· Players returning home after the Ireland Tour will be considered as reserves for the Tour of England.

BanCricFan
May 27, 2008, 05:45 AM
Thanks pilot fan... Imrul Kayes and Shamsur Rahman should have been part of the main squad! A good selection nonetheless.

BTW- No Enamul Haque Jnr?!!!

BANFAN
May 27, 2008, 05:49 AM
A team for England is Bhua. Tamim/Sakib/Mushi/Nazim shouldn't have been there. Dhiman and a few other guys should have got the chance to play.

Inclusion of Tamim has no reason.

BANFAN
May 27, 2008, 05:52 AM
National team is more or less the same as it was. Strangely, Nazim got a preference over Junaid. Both the teams are same but one change in the Asia cup reserve bench, doesn't make any sense.

BanCricFan
May 27, 2008, 05:55 AM
Banfan, maybe this might help you understand the reasons behind the inclusion of the likes of Tamims and Shakibs:

The squad should be comprised, mainly, of young national, out of favour national players and the fringe players. This is a very important tour in terms of gaining precious experience of playing against County teams- as well as South Africa- in English (British) conditions. We should send the strongest squad available barring three or four 'senior' national players. This would be my squad:

1. Tamim
2. Imrul
3. Junaid
4. Rokibul
5. Naeem
6. Rajin
7. Alok
8. Shakib
9. Mushfiq
10. Dhiman (?)
11. Aftab
12. Shahadat
13. Sajid
14. Dolar
15. Talha

16. Enam

If we are only allowed to send 15 players then Enam makes the cut and one of the bats drops out.

BANFAN
May 27, 2008, 05:56 AM
BTW- No Enamul Haque Jnr?!!!

Strange, he is not even in 'A' team. May be his club won't leave him

niroshu
May 27, 2008, 06:12 AM
Are Eta Kemon Squad
Junaed, Rasel, Dhiman Nai

Mushfiq Ektu Valo Khelai Dhuika Gelo
Ajeira
Vua
Faltu
Konodin Ekta Valo Squad Korte Parlo Na

Emon Squad Hoile
Bd Ki Jitbo Naki
Bd Harboi



:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad: :mad:

bdchamp20
May 27, 2008, 06:31 AM
All the squads are crap! Alok deserved a chance ahead of Mehrab Jr. Aftab survives, while Junaid and Dhiman are dropped! Mushfiq is brought in as the only keeper prematurely again and I guess he'll be made to bat at no. 7 where he'll be out for ducks and drop sitters as keeper, he couldve been picked as a batsman while Dhiman would keep and bat at no. 7! Nazimuddin and Roquibul Hasan remain despite regularly failing to get picked for the final XI. And on what basis has Dolar been picked? His academy performances were below par, didnt hear anything about him in the Premier League. Looks like the management and Siddons have a grudge against poor Rasel, whatever opportunity they get they avoid Rasel. And half the national team is sent to play for the 'A' team, yes they will probably win most of the matches, but is that what the 'A' team should be about? It is there for a team to develop its second tier players.

Gowza
May 27, 2008, 06:38 AM
All the squads are crap! Alok deserved a chance ahead of Mehrab Jr. Aftab survives, while Junaid and Dhiman are dropped! Mushfiq is brought in as the only keeper prematurely again and I guess he'll be made to bat at no. 7 where he'll be out for ducks and drop sitters as keeper, he couldve been picked as a batsman while Dhiman would keep and bat at no. 7! Nazimuddin and Roquibul Hasan remain despite regularly failing to get picked for the final XI. And on what basis has Dolar been picked? His academy performances were below par, didnt hear anything about him in the Premier League. Looks like the management and Siddons have a grudge against poor Rasel, whatever opportunity they get they avoid Rasel. And half the national team is sent to play for the 'A' team, yes they will probably win most of the matches, but is that what the 'A' team should be about? It is there for a team to develop its second tier players.

top post, pretty much said it all really. the teams and players are all over the place. rahim has been re-selected for the national team only to be dropped again to go on an A tour. tamim and shakib possibly the 2 best national players at the current time are also being sent on one of the A tours. they must be using the A tour in england as a chance to give some of the national players extra experience in those conditions, problem with that is it means a handful of other players won't get that chance who could have really used it to help improve BD's depth.

BD-Shardul
May 27, 2008, 06:59 AM
Syed Rasel not in National squad? Ki ar komu....selection er prothomei bhul...:hairpull:

Nafi
May 27, 2008, 08:23 AM
I like that they brought young nationals with A team, but seriously why was mehrab given the go ahead of alok kapali, and why is syed rasel out of the national squad????

nsd3
May 27, 2008, 08:32 AM
Targeting junior stars of the nat'l team to give exposure in English condition goes in line with the current vision: "building core team players looking at the future".

BanCricFan
May 27, 2008, 08:35 AM
I like that they brought young nationals with A team, but seriously why was mehrab given the go ahead of alok kapali, and why is syed rasel out of the national squad????

Very very valid question! ...and a few of the regular posters were crying for the heads of Athar, Faruq and co. Perhaps, they feel much more comfortable now that Tigermama and Co. are at the helm.:rolleyes:

AsifTheManRahman
May 27, 2008, 08:45 AM
Mushfiq should have served some more time. Dollar can't be better than Rasel.

Nafi
May 27, 2008, 09:01 AM
I wonder what our seam will comprise of, shahadat still needs a lot of improvement in One day bowling, particularly the first 10 overs, rather than at the death.

If Dolar is given a chance, I hope he has something that makes him dangerous I doubt his pace is anything above 85+mph, but I hope he has some swing, or at the least a good stock of slower balls.

Does anyone have the dates of the Ireland and England academy tours.

Kabir
May 27, 2008, 09:40 AM
The thread title is a bit confusing. It should have the tour name.

Thanks for the info btw.

bdchamp20
May 27, 2008, 09:42 AM
Oh according to CricInfo, Rasel is injured.

Nafi
May 27, 2008, 09:53 AM
Oh according to CricInfo, Rasel is injured.

To be honest this conveniant, let him rest and get back on for the academy tours, long term good for BD cricket, bad for short term.

And I hope that stupid bolod aftab raise his standards.

thebest
May 27, 2008, 09:55 AM
Other than omission of Rasel and inclusion of Mushy I have no complain. Remember I am the biggest fan of Mushy, but I think we should have continued with Dhiman and Mushy should feel the heat to regain his position.

Nafi
May 27, 2008, 10:00 AM
Rasel is injured according to cricinfo.

Miraz
May 27, 2008, 10:21 AM
Enamul Jr. is already playing in England. He will get a good understanding of the English condition at the end of the season.

I guess selectors are only considering him for Tests and that's why left him out of the squads.

tonoy
May 27, 2008, 10:37 AM
OH no Junaid is out. Oh well, I guess SN will have to play all the games now.

Nafi
May 27, 2008, 10:38 AM
Enamul Jr. is already playing in England. He will get a good understanding of the English condition at the end of the season.

I guess selectors are only considering him for Tests and that's why left him out of the squads.

is he playing first class/list A at the least

Eshen
May 27, 2008, 10:43 AM
Rasel is still struggling with his ankle injury and Nazmul got groin injury, and thus both are not considered for the national team.

Only complain I have about team selection is Nasir Hossain should have been picked for the Ireland leg of the A-team tour, ahead of Nadif Chowdhury. Nadif has done too little to justify his selection in the A-team.

Foozy
May 27, 2008, 10:56 AM
Most dissappointed in Dhiman being out of the fold. He was kicked out for no reason. Tamim should not have been in the A team by any means. He is the most consistent batsman rite now.
Inclusion of Aftab and Nadif as the respective levels is totally illogical

Nafi
May 27, 2008, 11:14 AM
Tamim should not have been in the A team by any means.

Makes sense for the promising batsman to have valuable experience in seaming conditions, and some exposure.

Eshen
May 27, 2008, 11:28 AM
Makes sense for the promising batsman to have valuable experience in seaming conditions, and some exposure.
Ditto. Tamim is still very young and inexperienced, and has plenty of rooms for improvement.

I think selectors did the right thing by picking only the players (for the A-team tour) who are really pushing for selection in the national team, and filling up rest of the positions by national team rookies.

It will be interesting to see who bats in the #3 slot for the A-team, since we are still searching for a batsman in this position for the Test team. Rokibul Hasan is technically most compact batsman in the team selected, thus he should be given a try. Other option I liked to see be tried was Shamsur Rahman, but I can't blame the selectors for not rushing him at this point.

BANFAN
May 27, 2008, 11:39 AM
Most dissappointed in Dhiman being out of the fold. He was kicked out for no reason. Tamim should not have been in the A team by any means. He is the most consistent batsman rite now.
Inclusion of Aftab and Nadif as the respective levels is totally illogical

Agree 100% on that.

Eshen
May 27, 2008, 11:52 AM
is he playing first class/list A at the least
Nope. Enamul is playing for Honley club in the Huddersfield league. From news bits that I have seen so far, it seems neither he or his club is doing well at this point.

I can't blame the selectors for excluding Enamul from the A-team, he has brought it upon himself with a prolonged patch of poor form.

Nafi
May 27, 2008, 11:53 AM
Nope. Enamul is playing for Honley club in the Huddersfield league. From news bits that I have seen so far, it seems neither he or his club is doing well at this point.

can you show these sources

Eshen
May 27, 2008, 11:57 AM
can you show these sources
Here is a whole thread on the topic - http://www.banglacricket.com/alochona/showthread.php?t=26415

Eshen
May 27, 2008, 12:01 PM
From http://www.thedailystar.net/story.php?nid=38497
"Nazmul was our first choice but he was declared unfit due to a groin injury and Rasel has yet to recover from his ankle injury. Dollar was the best available replacement for us because of his impressive showing with the Under-19s and in the domestic tournaments," explained Rafiq.

On the other hand, the axe fell on left-handed opener Zunaed, whose paltry collection of 41 runs in six one-day internationals, but Rafiq admitted that Dhiman was unfortunate not to be in the team.

"It was bad luck for Dhiman because Mushfiqur did exactly what he needed after being left out of the side. We had no choice but to pick Mushfiqur considering the team combination after Shakib left a huge vacuum in the top-order," said Rafiq while recalling Mushfiqur's run-spree in the domestic competitions.

But while Zunaed's exclusion could be justified, questions were raised regarding Aftab Ahmed's place.

"Aftab was reasonable in his performance against New Zealand, South Africa and Ireland. Most importantly, we don't want to break the unity and confidence in the team as the whole team's performance was not satisfactory," said Rafiq.

The former national player also explained the reason behind the inclusion of Mehrab, who returned home two days back from United States after cutting short his holiday. "He was brilliant with the Academy team and in domestic cricket with (Old DOHS and Dhaka)," he said.

Rafiq again reiterated his claim that they are totally against making frequent changes in the team and in that case, the players should have realised their professional duties.

"I want to be patient on the players but the first thing is that the players have to be professional and they have to do their duty in the right way," said Rafiq adding that his only expectation is that the Tigers will be competitive in the tri-series and the Asia Cup.

Selector Naimur Rahman informed the reporters that Bangladesh captain Mohammad Ashraful, who is preparing for the HSC examination along with Aftab Ahmed, is ready to sacrifice his examination if it hampered his international commitments.

"His (Ashraful) entire concentration is on cricket and he assured us that he will sacrifice his examination if it clashes with practice or matches," said Naimur.

al Furqaan
May 27, 2008, 12:12 PM
no syed rasel??!! this is an OUTRAGE!

al Furqaan
May 27, 2008, 12:13 PM
nm, he's injured.

al Furqaan
May 27, 2008, 12:15 PM
Most dissappointed in Dhiman being out of the fold. He was kicked out for no reason. Tamim should not have been in the A team by any means. He is the most consistent batsman rite now.
Inclusion of Aftab and Nadif as the respective levels is totally illogical

just because tamim is doing amazing rigth now, doesn't mean he's where he needs to be. the guy still gets out for single digit scores after scoring back to back 60s. an A team tour to england can do wonders for him, given how much he learned in just the last year.

he can play both int'l and A team tours.

AsifTheManRahman
May 27, 2008, 12:16 PM
We had no choice but to pick Mushfiqur considering the team combination after Shakib left a huge vacuum in the top-order

Hope he means Mushfiq will be promoted.

Rommel
May 27, 2008, 12:26 PM
I hope Mushfiq bats at #3

Fazal
May 27, 2008, 01:16 PM
jai lau sheyee kodu.... a mushfiq here and a non-Alok there will not make any difference.... unless we get rid of the proven deadwood of the current team.

I feel sorry for the newer kids in the block i.e. Rahim, Dollar, Mehrab Jr. They are the prime candidate for "scapegoat of the series" . After the series, one (or more) of these kids will have to take the majority of the blame for our failure and will be publicy humiliated by the captain, selectors and some of the fans. And ofcourse he/they will be dropped immediately from the team for next series.

Fazal
May 27, 2008, 03:50 PM
Dollar new blood in national cricket squad

The Bangladesh Cricket Board (BCB) Tuesday announced a 14-member squad for the ensuing tri-nation one-day international series with a new face, pacer Dollar Mahmud. - bdbews24

I think there is a typo in the heading of bdbews24. It should be:

"Dollar new bolood in national cricket squad"

al Furqaan
May 27, 2008, 05:09 PM
jai lau sheyee kodu.... a mushfiq here and a non-Alok there will not make any difference.... unless we get rid of the proven deadwood of the current team.

I feel sorry for the newer kids in the block i.e. Rahim, Dollar, Mehrab Jr. They are the prime candidate for "scapegoat of the series" . After the series, one (or more) of these kids will have to take the majority of the blame for our failure and will be publicy humiliated by the captain, selectors and some of the fans. And ofcourse he/they will be dropped immediately from the team for next series.

well thats part of the game...it happens to all sides. if each player (including ash-aftab) makes sure they aren't that "sacrificial bolod" then our team might actually win every third game or so.

al Furqaan
May 27, 2008, 05:12 PM
Hope he means Mushfiq will be promoted.

yea...dhiman is the WK-bat who can bat at 6 or 7 and score quick runs. i think mushy can also score at a 80-90 SR in the slog overs, but dhiman has the better slogging ability without taking risks.

rahim should bat at 3, with ash at 4, and aftab at 6.

Eshen
May 27, 2008, 05:15 PM
Mushfiq is a shaky starter (reason, I believe, he gets out for single digit scores so often), he should not bat anywhere in the top four positions.

djnaved
May 27, 2008, 08:08 PM
pura vua ekta team hoiche jekhane junayed off-former jonno bad jai shekhane ashraful aftab keno badh jaite pare na? ami bujtachi na.........

mushfique premier leaguea run korlo r emni national teame chance paia gelo, ajob ek jinish......academ cup e tar kemon performance chilo eta shobai jane....catch miss theke shuru kore battingeao kharap korlo.......selectoder uchit chilo takea A team e khelano....England tour e o kemon perform korto...oita dekhei tarpor decision nito.............dhiman ke keno badh dilo bujlam na.....o emon kichu catch dhorchilo, jeigula mushfique easily miss korto.......afsos for him.....habibul bashar asia cup/triangular series squade thaka uchit chilo....leagea eto valo khelar por-o chance pailo na.....ashole selectorra tader pochonder playerder ke nilo.......amar r kichu bolar nai......

Eshen
May 27, 2008, 09:19 PM
pura vua ekta team hoiche jekhane junayed off-former jonno bad jai shekhane ashraful aftab keno badh jaite pare na? ami bujtachi na.........
Ashraful and Aftab are playing poorly, but none of them has been as poorly as Zunaed yet. Here is Zunaed's stats -

http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/player/55946.html?class=2;template=results;type=batting;v iew=innings

mushfique premier leaguea run korlo r emni national teame chance paia gelo, ajob ek jinish......

.....habibul bashar asia cup/triangular series squade thaka uchit chilo....leagea eto valo khelar por-o chance pailo na.....ashole selectorra tader pochonder playerder ke nilo.......
Don't you think you are contradicting yourself here ? Bashar's league performance count but no Mushfiq's ?! Even though Mushfiq scored two hundreds more runs than Bashar did ?!
......academ cup e tar kemon performance chilo eta shobai jane....catch miss theke shuru kore battingeao kharap korlo.......
Well my friend, you made a wrong assumption - not everybody, atleast not I knew about Mushfiq's poor keeping during the academy tournaments. How do you know about this ? Have you seen those matches ?

Not that I am over the moon about this selection, but I am just failing to see the logics behind your objections against it.

Eshen
May 27, 2008, 09:37 PM
BTW, I do feel bad for Dhiman. From the national team keeper, now he does not have a regular place even in the A-team.

This decision is going to backfire badly on the face of the selectors if Mushfiq does not get rid of the inconsistency that he has shown in his short international career so far.

Gowza
May 27, 2008, 09:56 PM
i can't understand what djnaved said but i believe there was an article which emphasized rahim's keeping in one of the academy matches, he dropped some catches i think it was, it's probably been posted in the thread for the recent academy matches. from what i've heard dhiman hasn't kept particularly well for the national team, should have been given more of a chance though imo. the thing i keep hearing about dhiman is that he can take some spectacular catches but also makes some easy blunders. imo it's better to work with a player like that who has the ability to do spectacular things than a player who can't do spectacular things. rahim doesn't seem to be able to do anything spectacular keeping wise and he seems to make similar easy blunders like dhiman. so in terms of keeping ability dhiman should be a better choice, seems to have more potential and it should be easier to teach a player to do the simple things than to teach them to do spectacular things.

batting wise it's tough to tell, dhiman was known on the domestic scene as a reasonably big hitter, though he hasn't shown it for the national team rahim isn't known for being a big hitter at all. assuming they'll both be batting low down the order like they both have dhiman is probably a better choice batsman for ODIs and t20s at the current time.

also i'm one of the ones who strongly believes rahim should have to perform domestically for longer (also i'm not against him being played as a specialist batsman, keeping wise he'll always be limited due to his height) and i don't think this should only be slapped on rahim. players like raqibul and junaid also either need a few more matches to prove themselves in the national team or should go straight back to A team, academy and domestic cricket and prove they can be consistent for a year or so.

however tbh it probably doesn't matter whether dhiman or rahim is the national keeper, they're pretty much going to do the job to a similar standard at this stage.

djnaved
May 27, 2008, 10:12 PM
Ashraful and Aftab are playing poorly, but none of them has been as poorly as Zunaed yet. Here is Zunaed's stats -

http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/player/55946.html?class=2;template=results;type=batting;v iew=innings

100% I agree with you, but Junayed is a new player.. ash and aftab are senior players, they are playing in't cricket for 6-7 years, still they have lack of responsibilty......the reason I chose Habibul Bashar because he did very well in the league, where ash and aftab totally failed..ash got too many chances,still he couldn't perform well.Mohamedan lost the chance to win the championship, they picked their reserve players instead of star players in their next match and they won. the last match ash got another chance to prove, he scored ony 3...so if you kick out a junior player for off-form then you also have to kick out a senior player for off-form.. And I don't have to watch academy cup to tell whether mushfique played good or bad, score and the report says it all......just analyze the scores and the reports abt him during academy cup

Eshen
May 27, 2008, 10:31 PM
Naved, trust me bro, we should thank god that selectors have decided against bringing Bashar back in the ODI team.

djnaved
May 27, 2008, 10:39 PM
Naved, trust me bro, we should thank god that selectors have decided against bringing Bashar back in the ODI team.

yah, haba is haba.....but our two bolod are more than haba...... i personally used to like those two bolod during he year 2006-07, but now they are moha-haba

al Furqaan
May 27, 2008, 11:53 PM
gowza, rahim can also take blinders. his reaction time is extremley quick, and unlike dhiman, rahim doesn't make any mistakes when he's standing back. rahim is a poor keeper standing up to the stumps, tho his take of sachin of razzak in the world cup was quite decent.

i also feel dhiman was unfairly dropped, but the good thing is this will force good competition between rahim-dhiman.

BD-Shardul
May 28, 2008, 12:34 AM
[QUOTE=djnaved;691666]pura vua ekta team hoiche jekhane junayed off-former jonno bad jai shekhane ashraful aftab keno badh jaite pare na? ami bujtachi na.........
QUOTE]

:-D ek kotha bar bar koite kharap lagey bhai. form is temporary, class is permanent. BC banner needs to include this great saying.

Foozy
May 28, 2008, 12:51 AM
Makes sense for the promising batsman to have valuable experience in seaming conditions, and some exposure.

I think it would have done him (and possibly Sakib) more good if he simply rested during this period and others such as Aftab were sent here instead.

Foozy
May 28, 2008, 01:05 AM
just because tamim is doing amazing rigth now, doesn't mean he's where he needs to be. the guy still gets out for single digit scores after scoring back to back 60s. an A team tour to england can do wonders for him, given how much he learned in just the last year.

he can play both int'l and A team tours.

Yes, but at the same time, bangladeshi culture wise... the guy will get tired soon if he plays too much. And then people will ask for his head too. I just hope Tamim does not get to that phase anytime soon.
And when a player does well, he should be treated with a certain degree of respect regardless of his age (senior junior)... personally rite at the moment he is more respectable to me than Ash and Co. Ofcourse the situation may change again. But that is just how it is. When someone does well, he should be treated with respect. Not throw him with a team full of discards and emerging players.

Foozy
May 28, 2008, 01:11 AM
"Aftab was reasonable in his performance against New Zealand, South Africa and Ireland..."

Ofcourse why not add that he and Ash both scored centuries each during each of those series... /:)

BANFAN
May 28, 2008, 02:02 AM
What's the big fuss of knowing english condition? Playing since naked age at home, how much they have learnt to use the local conditions? Have we started beating the visitors using our conditions? To be able to use any conditions, we still need to go a long way. Lets learn to use our own conditions to our advantage first. IMO

If some one needs practice matches; that should be Ash, Aft, SN etc etc. Not Tamim/Sakib, IMHO.

Talking of Age, Ash/SN/Aft are not old hags, they are all of close age, Ash is just 24 and have we already started to think that he is beyond improvement? Who needs practice? one who is strugling to perform, commonsense must prevail at BCB.

And I am not sure though how much of practice they will have playing against the 2nd string county teams. But well for those who are strugling to perform, any sort of practice is ok for them. but not probably for the top performers.

The points raised by Foozy, is quiet valid one. A top performer deserves respect. IMO. If he hurt by such treatment and loses motivation, that will be a big loss.

Gowza
May 28, 2008, 03:07 AM
anyone thought about how tamim and shakib feel about being dropped after being the 2 best national team performers while others who haven't performed nearly as good for the national team haven't been e.g. ashraful and aftab. doesn't really make sense to send the performers to the A team and keep the non-performers away from it, if anything it's the non-performers who should be in the A team.

Gowza
May 28, 2008, 03:13 AM
What's the big fuss of knowing english condition? Playing since naked age at home, how much they have learnt to use the local conditions? Have we started beating the visitors using our conditions? To be able to use any conditions, we still need to go a long way. Lets learn to use our own conditions to our advantage first. IMO

If some one needs practice matches; that should be Ash, Aft, SN etc etc. Not Tamim/Sakib, IMHO.

Talking of Age, Ash/SN/Aft are not old hags, they are all of close age, Ash is just 24 and have we already started to think that he is beyond improvement? Who needs practice? one who is strugling to perform, commonsense must prevail at BCB.

And I am not sure though how much of practice they will have playing against the 2nd string county teams. But well for those who are strugling to perform, any sort of practice is ok for them. but not probably for the top performers.

The points raised by Foozy, is quiet valid one. A top performer deserves respect. IMO. If he hurt by such treatment and loses motivation, that will be a big loss.

well it is important to learn different conditions, but national teamers get that experience by playing in the national team which is why the A team shouldn't be filled with national teamers because now their reserves who have no outlet, other than the A team and academy which rarely tour, aren't getting a chance to practice in the english conditions.

when will be the next time the A team or academy team will tour england after this? probably awhile so the reserve players are going to have to wait all of that time to get any look at those conditions. meanwhile the national team are going all over the world many times throughout the year giving the national players all that experience in different conditions.

bdchamp20
May 28, 2008, 05:54 AM
I dont see this A tour as a necessity for our players to learn English conditions, first of all the quality of opposition that they'll be playing isnt exactly world-class. The venues where they'll be playing I havent even heard of before, its not even regular county stadiums like Old Trafford or The Oval, they are going to be playing in places like Moss Lane where anyone can literally book the pitch for a match. And I dont think there are going to be international matches held on those pitches ever. And lastly getting adjusted to English conditions? Hello they are going in July-August, its as hot here as it is in Bangladesh during this time. If they sent them in November-December that would do them some good. So I dont think this tour will benefit the likes of Shamsur Rahman or other domestic players let alone Tamim or Shakib!

Ishtylish cricketer
May 28, 2008, 06:47 AM
Too many unproven players were chosen for my liking. Kapali should have had a spot in the Main XI with Shakib taking a leave to write HSC exam. Dhiman did take a lot of catches in the Pakistan series but he can't bat at all. If he was kept Bd would officially and undoubtedly have the worst wicketkeeper batsman among all test playing nations. Brandon Taylor from Zimbawae is infinitely better than him.

Ishtylish cricketer
May 28, 2008, 06:53 AM
I dont see this A tour as a necessity for our players to learn English conditions, first of all the quality of opposition that they'll be playing isnt exactly world-class. The venues where they'll be playing I havent even heard of before, its not even regular county stadiums like Old Trafford or The Oval, they are going to be playing in places like Moss Lane where anyone can literally book the pitch for a match. And I dont think there are going to be international matches held on those pitches ever. And lastly getting adjusted to English conditions? Hello they are going in July-August, its as hot here as it is in Bangladesh during this time. If they sent them in November-December that would do them some good. So I dont think this tour will benefit the likes of Shamsur Rahman or other domestic players let alone Tamim or Shakib!

Great point bdchamp20. Players and selectors don't realize that english domestic players are just good or bad as most Bd players. Only difference is that those domestic english players are lot more disciplined and technically correct. In Bd's last tour of England they were facing a university team and for this tour they have aggreed to play against ENG U19. Give me a break, what can you learn from playing against U 19 when you're one step away from joining the bigs?

mahbubH
May 28, 2008, 07:44 AM
Hello they are going in July-August, its as hot here as it is in Bangladesh during this time. If they sent them in November-December that would do them some good.


Where in UK people play cricket in November-December?

Foozy
May 28, 2008, 10:33 AM
Too many unproven players were chosen for my liking. Kapali should have had a spot in the Main XI with Shakib taking a leave to write HSC exam. Dhiman did take a lot of catches in the Pakistan series but he can't bat at all. If he was kept Bd would officially and undoubtedly have the worst wicketkeeper batsman among all test playing nations. Brandon Taylor from Zimbawae is infinitely better than him.

umm... im not exactly sure its fair to judge him like that yet. He played only a few matches at the top level, and his average is 15.5ish. Thats not exactly a whole lot different from what most of our star players did during those last few matches. Infact the legendary Ash himself probably has a similar avg in those matches lmao.
I thought he should be given more time. Either ways taking him out of the A team circuit was simply wrong. These are the type of players who should be in the A team. Not the likes of Tamim and Sakib at the moment.

Fazal
May 28, 2008, 10:40 AM
After few opportunity we already know that Dhiman is no good to the point that "he is the worst wicketkeeper batsman among all test playing nations" ... where-as after soo many years we still think that we haven't seen the best of Ash/Aftab/Alok etc.....very interesting observation.

Thats tells me what I need to know about whats really wrong with our cricket culture.... and our future.

bdchamp20
May 28, 2008, 10:49 AM
OK, whats done is done. Now I hope Siddons and Ash dont make any more mistakes especially during selecting the final XI. ATM, I think this team should be played:
Tamim
Shahriar
Mushfiq(WK)
Ashraful(C)
Mehrab Jr.
Nazimuddin
Mahmudullah
Farhad
Mashrafe
Razzak
Shahadat

Aftab must be kept from playing at all costs, frankly I cant stand him anymore I dont want to see him wearing the Bangladesh shirt ever again.

Tigers_eye
May 28, 2008, 11:01 AM
After few opportunity we already know that Dhiman is no good to the point that "he is the worst wicketkeeper batsman among all test playing nations" ... where-as after soo many years we still think that we haven't seen the best of Ash/Aftab/Alok etc.....very interesting observation.

Thats tells me what I need to know about whats really wrong with our cricket culture.... and our future.
Post of the week. Rewarded it with my signature.

thebest
May 28, 2008, 11:33 AM
After few opportunity we already know that Dhiman is no good to the point that "he is the worst wicketkeeper batsman among all test playing nations" ... where-as after soo many years we still think that we haven't seen the best of Ash/Aftab/Alok etc.....very interesting observation.

Thats tells me what I need to know about whats really wrong with our cricket culture.... and our future.
Post of the year. No joke , no sarcasm; Hard fact; but unlike our reality check coach/manager not demoralizing comment.
I am big fan of Mushy, but I feel Dhiman was poorly treated; while Aftab was rewarded with 57 runs in five matches and claiming that he is happy with his performance. Mushy should have (ideally he should not recalled) in place of Aftab not Dhiman. What is wrong if you have 2 w/k in the team

djnaved
May 28, 2008, 12:27 PM
Post of the year. No joke , no sarcasm; Hard fact; but unlike our reality check coach/manager not demoralizing comment.
I am big fan of Mushy, but I feel Dhiman was poorly treated; while Aftab was rewarded with 57 runs in five matches and claiming that he is happy with his performance. Mushy should have (ideally he should not recalled) in place of Aftab not Dhiman. What is wrong if you w/k in the team

i agree

niroshu
May 28, 2008, 12:27 PM
pura vua ekta team hoiche jekhane junayed off-former jonno bad jai shekhane ashraful aftab keno badh jaite pare na? ami bujtachi na.........

mushfique premier leaguea run korlo r emni national teame chance paia gelo, ajob ek jinish......academ cup e tar kemon performance chilo eta shobai jane....catch miss theke shuru kore battingeao kharap korlo.......selectoder uchit chilo takea A team e khelano....England tour e o kemon perform korto...oita dekhei tarpor decision nito.............dhiman ke keno badh dilo bujlam na.....o emon kichu catch dhorchilo, jeigula mushfique easily miss korto.......afsos for him.....habibul bashar asia cup/triangular series squade thaka uchit chilo....leagea eto valo khelar por-o chance pailo na.....ashole selectorra tader pochonder playerder ke nilo.......amar r kichu bolar nai......


BH Apnar sathe ami purapuri ekmotttttttttt

2007 er bd R 2008 er bd
sobar unnoti hoi r amago hoi obonotiiiiiiiiiii
ashole eta amago rokter sommosha
(onner upor nirvor hoiya jaoya)
amago selector ra oi takklur kotha moto choltese

takklu mone kore AUS er sohokari coach silam tai ekhn or sob power thakbo
kintu amago selector go vaba uchit
je naki bd coach houyar age ekbaro bd khela dekhe nai (siddons er mukher kotha )
take ektu kom powar deyaii uchit
takklur kothai na naicha nije der kothai nachle ei valo hoi


takkklu tore ekta request tui ZERO or theke suru na koiro WHATMORE er dolll ta theke suru
plzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

djnaved
May 28, 2008, 12:47 PM
takklu mone kore AUS er sohokari coach silam tai ekhn or sob power thakbo
je naki bd coach houyar age ekbaro bd khela dekhe nai (siddons er mukher kotha )
take ektu kom powar deyaii uchi

vai, joss koichen , je coach amader khela temon dekhe nai, amader playerer shomporke kono iq nai takea keno coach banabe. when siddons first came to BD, one journalist asked him question," do you know any bangladeshi players?" Siddons replied, " yah, I know Ashraful:-D"

Sovik
May 28, 2008, 01:16 PM
does anyone have itinerary of Bangladesh A tour of Ireland?

Murad
May 28, 2008, 02:41 PM
What's Mehrab Jr doing in the National team squad? Are we going to play Tests in the tri-series??

Alok should have been there in place of Mehrab.

And Why Mehrab is not in the A-team squads? He's a good player for longer version but he's been selected for shorter version, in which he is crap.

Dhiman should have been in both A-team squads along with Mushfique. Both need FC experiences.

And what's Aftab doing in the National team squad? Pak tour e o kharap korse abar club league o kharap korse.

As for AShraful, I guess he hasn't done so bad compare to other National players. He atleast scored a 50! and Averaged over 25 in the club cricket :-D

Ishtylish cricketer
May 28, 2008, 06:40 PM
After few opportunity we already know that Dhiman is no good to the point that "he is the worst wicketkeeper batsman among all test playing nations" ... where-as after soo many years we still think that we haven't seen the best of Ash/Aftab/Alok etc.....very interesting observation.

Thats tells me what I need to know about whats really wrong with our cricket culture.... and our future.

I will explain you where you're wrong in a very unsarcastic way. You can't compare wicketkeepers's scenario with batsmen. They are not the same. Selectors, coach, captains they have to judge player's ability in few matches. That's their job. Now they can't have (don't have the luxury) statistically significant numbers under Dhiman's name to mathematically justify to you or anyone for that matter why they excluded him from the team. He had the SA series, and Pakistan series which added up to 7 games (4 test innings and 5 ODI innings) and 9 innings. 9 innings are enough for a cricket trained eye to determine whether a player struggling with form can do a better job for the team than those waiting on the fringe; at least in the near future. In cricket teams and in most sports team there's no democracy, it's dictatorship that rules. In the 9 innings he batted he looked very much like the worst keeper batsman in the test world. Dare I ask, who is worse than him? In the worst wicketkeeper batsman's list excluding Bangladesh one has to put Taylor and Ramdin. Clearly, Dhiman didn't look like even close to those guys.

Talking about Ash/Aftab/Alok have proven time and time when left out with big scores that they are among the best batsmen in Bd (Ash and Alok especially). It's too bad that they can't do it consistently at the international level. Although, they are not consistent, Bd just doesn't have anyone better to replace them so, they will keep on playing till someone better arrives. Let Dhiman get some big scores, improve his batting and take more catches. If he was that good and capitulated under pressure surely he'll find form, make huge scores and return to international cricket. On current terms, Dhiman Ghose the wicketkeeper in batting offers nothing more than a #8 bat with only sufficient keeping skills. The team has no confidence in his batting and his keeping needs polishing just like most Bd keepers. Ash and co showed that they at least have the talent to do what they were chosen for...Dhiman's batting and even keeping to a certain extent (dropped 3 catches that I can recall) didn't reveal that he's someone who is that much better than Rahim, Pilot or anyone else in contention.

His omission really didn't make me mad, sad, happy and nor did I wonder why he was dropped. Did he deserve it? Yes. Could they have given him more chances? The answer to that question is that you have to create your own chances by doing whatever you can to impress those that matter. By the mere fact that he was dropped proves that he could not do so. I'm not sure he'll get anymore looks unless he improves vastly and in Bd we've yet to see such players who are able to make strong comebacks. I hope I'm wrong about him because I have nothing personal against him. Unfortunately, I just don't see the immense (talent) upgrade this guy offers over any of the keepers we have in the domestic leagues. Even though I think keepers and batsmen are two different types of players, but if I must compare the two, Ash/Aftab/Alok undoubtedly offer a lot more in terms of talent for their positions than Dhiman does as a wicketkeeper batsman. A players stays in a team due to two things mainly 1) performances or 2) talent ie upsights and if don't have either chances are you'll be dropped. If players like Ganguly, Dravid can be left out of a team, Dhiman being dropped due to bad performances doesn't bother me at all. My two pennies worth.

Eshen
May 28, 2008, 09:43 PM
I am not a Kapali hater, but it's funny to see his fans are making so much hue and cry after Kapali mainted his batting averages in low thirties for a season, that too in our low standard domestic leagues. An experienced player like Kapali should be expected to maintain his average in high forties.

Sohel
May 28, 2008, 10:01 PM
I am not a Kapali hater, but it's funny to see his fans are making so much hue and cry after Kapali mainted his batting averages in low thirties for a season, that too in our low standard domestic leagues. An experienced player like Kapali should be expected to maintain his average in high forties.

I'm an Alok fan and you're absolutely spot on here.

That said, I think a good A Team tour can only help him sustain success whenever he comes back into the fold. He has mental issues at the highest level, and as I've posted many times before, A Team cricket will help him transition better Inshallah, and bring some of the class his best innings in Domestic FC and List A into the forefront.

I'm very happy to see Dollar getting a chance at last. Wish him the very best.

GoBoy's return alongside some of the akaimma activities from Dhiman, especially with the bat is hardly surprising. Behind the stumps, he made some GoBoy-type mistakes totally unacceptable at the highest level, especially with his superior range and athleticism.

We'll see this these two going back-and-forth behind the stumps for some time to come, at least until Shahin becomes a better batsman or Pavel improves his keeping, but I expect GoBoy to consolidate his place as a specialist batsman much sooner than that.

Very eager to see how much he has improved after the much needed benching ... :)

Fazal
May 28, 2008, 10:22 PM
I will explain you where you're wrong in a very unsarcastic way. You can't compare wicketkeepers with batsman. They are not the same. Selectors, coach, captains they have to judge players ability in few matches. That's their job. Now they can't have statistically significant numbers under Dhiman's name to mathematically justify to you or anyone for that matter why they excluded him from the team. He had the SA series, and Pakistan series. 4 test innings and 5 ODI innings. 9 innings is enough for a cricket trained eye to determine whether this struggling person can do a better job than those waiting on the fringe; at least in the near future. In cricket teams and in most sports team there's no democracy it's dictatorship. In the 9 innings based on what he showed at least batting ability wise he is indeed the worst among the test playing nations. Who is worse than him? In the worst wicketkeeper batsman's list excluding Bangladesh one has to put Taylor and Ramdin. Dhiman didn't look like he was better than even those guys.
......

You can write 10 page long to defend your point of view, but it doesn't change my opinion about your comment, and (most likely) its true for some other members also. Why? I can give you 7+ reasons (and I promise I will try my best to be to the point):

1. 118 ODI matches or even 80 ODI Matches are good sample size to judge a player's future, but 11 ODI is not enough sample size to judge one way or another.

2. In his (first) 11 ODI Dhimans' average is 15.66 where as in first 11 ODi Ash's career the average was 16.2, aftab's 11.4. Eventually after playing 118 ODI Ash's ODI average is 22.5 Afatb's ( after playing 80 ODI) is 25.32.

3. In last series that Bangladesh played against Pakistan (5 games) Dhiman's ODI average is 18.5 where as Ash's average (in last series) is 16.2 and Aftab's 11.4

4. Ash and Aftab are Batsman first and bowler 2nd where as Dhiman is wicket keeper 1st and batsman 2nd.

5. Ash and Aftab bats in the top of the order. Basically they have the opportunity to build their own innings as well as the team's; there is no conflict. Where as Dhiman bats lower end of the batting order and to accelerate rr, he may need to take risk and thereby may need sacrifice his individual stat.

6. Ash and Aftab may have match winning innings, but their success rate is in the lower end. And thats why after playing close to 100 ODI their average is still in mid 20s.

7. Dhiman may or may not have more match winning innings after playing same number of ODI games like Ash/Aftab (in future after playing 80/100 ODI). But 11 ODi in no way is a good sample size to predict one way or another.

8. Dhiman may not accomplish anything. But as he is still unproven, the upper ceiling is still very high (plus lower ceiling is also very low). Where as Ash and Aftab may have accomplished some success, But after playing so many games, its safe to say that their upper ceiling is more predictable and most likely not much than whatever we have seen so far during their 118/80 ODI games.

I think that your original comment is a perfect example what is wrong with us, and why we are not going any where with our team. Its not you, but its the selectors and some of the BCB executives who is following what you are saying. And that's why we are coming back to square zero again and again.

btw I am not a Dhiman fan. Nor do I think that Dhiman is the best prospect in our wicket keeper position. But when they bring a new player into the national team, I expect them to stick with him a little bit more unless he is a complete flop. To me, Dhiman was not the one who was a complete flop. It was Zuniad (in limited opportunity) was a complete flop in ODI among new players and Aftab, injured Rasel (limited opportunity) and in some way Ashraful was complete flop among experienced players in the last series against Pakistan. If anyone needs our patience, it's the new players... they need our support...not the players like Ash/Aftab or even Alok who got enough chances to prove their worth and failed most of the time.

Eshen
May 29, 2008, 12:25 AM
We'll see this these two going back-and-forth behind the stumps for some time to come, at least until Shahin becomes a better batsman or Pavel improves his keeping, but I expect GoBoy to consolidate his place as a specialist batsman much sooner than that.
As long as selectors keeping Mithun Ali and Nadimuddin Mintu out of the fight among the keepers (at least for next two years), it should not be a bad thing for the national team.

Foozy
May 29, 2008, 01:13 AM
But when they bring a new player into the national team, I expect them to stick with him a little bit more unless he is a complete flop. To me, Dhiman was not the one who was a complete flop. It was Zuniad (in limited opportunity) was a complete flop in ODI among new players and Aftab, injured Rasel (limited opportunity) and in some way Ashraful was complete flop among experienced players in the last series against Pakistan. If anyone needs our patience, it's the new players... they need our support...not the players like Ash/Aftab or even Alok who got enough chances to prove their worth and failed most of the time.

agreed 80% lol

I don't think Junaed and Rasel got a fair chance.

Junaed was basically "toyed around" with. A few matches here and there... not really letting him play, but using him as a back up player every 3 to 4 matches... thats just not fair...

Rasel... that was not even close to being fair.

Antora
May 29, 2008, 05:41 AM
Oh what!?! no Dhimmy? i was really starting to like his keeping. I think he is a better kepper than Mushy, and Rasel is injured :(. I'm not liking this.

Antora
May 29, 2008, 05:45 AM
OH no Junaid is out. Oh well, I guess SN will have to play all the games now.

:-D...

Fazal
May 29, 2008, 08:36 AM
agreed 80% lol

I don't think Junaed and Rasel got a fair chance.

Junaed was basically "toyed around" with. A few matches here and there... not really letting him play, but using him as a back up player every 3 to 4 matches... thats just not fair...

Rasel... that was not even close to being fair.

Well I kind of agree with you in-terms of fairness about these two players..


lets be clear about my thought about them. They were failure in the last tour there is no way to suger coat that fact. But what also need to be mentioned is : its more due to how they were used and when they were used. I don't have any doubt about their future capability. Zunaid should be used when he is in his best form (by showing good performance in local/team-a games). And when he is used, we need to stick with him longer... not one game here and one game there.

About Rasel, I am not sure he was 100% recovered. Most likely they brought him too early after his injury.

So I agree, even though they were failure in the last series (in limited activities), its not fair to term them as a failured players (as a whole) . And I hope failure in last series is a temporary.... I have no doubt about their future potential.

AsifTheManRahman
May 29, 2008, 08:50 AM
But when they bring a new player into the national team, I expect them to stick with him a little bit more unless he is a complete flop. To me, Dhiman was not the one who was a complete flop.
..and for my umpteenth time, to throw someone away as a flop, you need to bat him up the order and see how he fares. #8 is not an ideal position to judge one's batting skills (assuming his keeping is comparable to the others in the queue), especially when the team is 6 down for 60.

Hint: To make space for sane minds up the order, remember that the #7 and #8 positions suit some of the bolods that we currently have for specialist batsmen in the top/middle order.

thebest
May 29, 2008, 12:12 PM
You can write 10 page long to defend your point of view, but it doesn't change my opinion about your comment, and (most likely) its true for some other members also. Why? I can give you 7+ reasons (and I promise I will try my best to be to the point):

1. 118 ODI matches or even 80 ODI Matches are good sample size to judge a player's future, but 11 ODI is not enough sample size to judge one way or another.

2. In his (first) 11 ODI Dhimans' average is 15.66 where as in first 11 ODi Ash's career the average was 16.2, aftab's 11.4. Eventually after playing 118 ODI Ash's ODI average is 22.5 Afatb's ( after playing 80 ODI) is 25.32.

3. In last series that Bangladesh played against Pakistan (5 games) Dhiman's ODI average is 18.5 where as Ash's average (in last series) is 16.2 and Aftab's 11.4

4. Ash and Aftab are Batsman first and bowler 2nd where as Dhiman is wicket keeper 1st and batsman 2nd.

5. Ash and Aftab bats in the top of the order. Basically they have the opportunity to build their own innings as well as the team's; there is no conflict. Where as Dhiman bats lower end of the batting order and to accelerate rr, he may need to take risk and thereby may need sacrifice his individual stat.

6. Ash and Aftab may have match winning innings, but their success rate is in the lower end. And thats why after playing close to 100 ODI their average is still in mid 20s.

7. Dhiman may or may not have more match winning innings after playing same number of ODI games like Ash/Aftab (in future after playing 80/100 ODI). But 11 ODi in no way is a good sample size to predict one way or another.

8. Dhiman may not accomplish anything. But as he is still unproven, the upper ceiling is still very high (plus lower ceiling is also very low). Where as Ash and Aftab may have accomplished some success, But after playing so many games, its safe to say that their upper ceiling is more predictable and most likely not much than whatever we have seen so far during their 118/80 ODI games.

I think that your original comment is a perfect example what is wrong with us, and why we are not going any where with our team. Its not you, but its the selectors and some of the BCB executives who is following what you are saying. And that's why we are coming back to square zero again and again.

btw I am not a Dhiman fan. Nor do I think that Dhiman is the best prospect in our wicket keeper position. But when they bring a new player into the national team, I expect them to stick with him a little bit more unless he is a complete flop. To me, Dhiman was not the one who was a complete flop. It was Zuniad (in limited opportunity) was a complete flop in ODI among new players and Aftab, injured Rasel (limited opportunity) and in some way Ashraful was complete flop among experienced players in the last series against Pakistan. If anyone needs our patience, it's the new players... they need our support...not the players like Ash/Aftab or even Alok who got enough chances to prove their worth and failed most of the time.
Fazal on a roll. Another quality post:notworthy:

Tigers_eye
May 29, 2008, 03:15 PM
thebest,
ami shotti bhuddhiman. :-D

Kind of had a feeling more quality posts coming from that funny guy. That is why I gave that "post of the week" title. Since the post's worth was more than just "post of the week title" I modified and put it in my signature.
Now I can easily top that title with "post of the month" with this one. Fasten your seat belt. More quality posts are coming from Fazal bhaijan.

Amar bhai, tomar bhai, Fazal bhai, fazal bhai.
Fazal bhai agiye cholo amra asi tomar pashey.

Kick out Ash-Aftab for the tri-series, Asia cup, SA and Australia series. Let them play domestic cricket 2008-09 and justify their inclusion. Free-ride time is over.

SS
May 29, 2008, 03:27 PM
"we still think that we haven't seen the best of AAA+...." what can we do....
The bunny in Energizer adds suggests that we will keep going if we use AAA...they are really powerful they will survive till the team last (if you don't use AAA ...how team will keep going)
http://www.energizer.com/_layouts/Energizer/images/backend/common/footer_keep_going.jpg

Eshen
May 29, 2008, 05:21 PM
Mushfiq's interview in Prothom-Alo - http://www.prothom-alo.com/mcat.news.details.php?nid=MTAwODMx&mid=OA==

Good to know that he has worked on his back lift (he reduced it, I hope).

djnaved
May 29, 2008, 08:04 PM
Mushfiq's interview in Prothom-Alo - http://www.prothom-alo.com/mcat.news.details.php?nid=MTAwODMx&mid=OA==

Good to know that he has worked on his back lift (he reduced it, I hope).

hmm, no talk about his keeping? kisher interview hoilo?:-P

BANFAN
May 30, 2008, 12:49 AM
The players basically know everything. 'Only way to comeback to the team is performance' 'Want to make my place in the team with continued good performance at the international level' Hope these are not political statements !

But, Mushi was always sincere and tried his best to perform. Never felt that he was throwing his wickets casually like some others most of the times look. Hope he does well this time. Looks like, he is concentrating more on his batting than wk.

Sovik
May 30, 2008, 07:11 AM
does anyone have itinerary of Bangladesh A tour of Ireland?


help! anyone?

Mahmood
May 30, 2008, 07:27 AM
I dont think the itenary has been announced yet.

Bengaliprince176
May 30, 2008, 02:22 PM
Fazal on a roll. Another quality post:notworthy:


lol he pretty much finished that argument!

i feel bad for dhiman as well, but thats how the selection works for a team, that still hasnt found out about themselves really. these kind of selections will be happening for a long time. We can only hope for the best that the players are upto scratch. Best of luck to the entire squad

Ishtylish cricketer
May 30, 2008, 02:39 PM
thebest,
ami shotti bhuddhiman. :-D

Kind of had a feeling more quality posts coming from that funny guy. That is why I gave that "post of the week" title. Since the post's worth was more than just "post of the week title" I modified and put it in my signature.
Now I can easily top that title with "post of the month" with this one. Fasten your seat belt. More quality posts are coming from Fazal bhaijan.

Amar bhai, tomar bhai, Fazal bhai, fazal bhai.
Fazal bhai agiye cholo amra asi tomar pashey.

Kick out Ash-Aftab for the tri-series, Asia cup, SA and Australia series. Let them play domestic cricket 2008-09 and justify their inclusion. Free-ride time is over.


Please name me one wicketkeeper batsman worse than Dhiman Ghosh among test playing nation? Can you really? In a great player usually there are signs of greatness. There are none in Dhiman Ghosh. He's not the most technically correct (granted no one in Bd is), can't hit the long ball (which I should remind you that people said he was capable of), at best he's a slow accumulator of runs at #8, even par with the gloves and very quiet on the field (keepers are supposed to be live wire which he wasn't). Best way for anyone to move up the order is to strike at a quick pace and stay not out. If Dhiman stayed not out with high strike rate (in lower order) he would have at least proved that he can play more balls which may eventually forced him up the order but if you're struggling ie. failing to score quickly against the likes of Younis Khan, and other part timers...you can't earn anyone's sympathy and defintely not respect. Upul Tharanga, Dravid, Younis Khan, AB Devilliers may have been better keepers than Dhiman Ghosh if they stuck to keeping. Do you think there's any batsman better than Ashraful in Bangladesh? Better yet is Bd better without Ashraful? Ask a foreigner who's the best batsman in Bangladesh the name Ashraful may come up more times than you can possibly imagine. If a country has limited talent and skills pool, selectors haven't got too many options.

Tigers_eye
May 30, 2008, 02:49 PM
Do you think there's any batsman better than Ashraful in Bangladesh? Better yet is Bd better without Ashraful? Ask a foreigner who's the best batsman in Bangladesh the name Ashraful may come up more times than you can possibly imagine. If a country has limited talent and skills pool, selectors haven't got too many options.
1. Yes.
2. Yes.
3. What does a foreigner know? Does he know more than what we know on him?
4. Mohamadan did. Rafiq has a bigger pool to select from.

Next set of questions please.

akabir77
May 30, 2008, 03:09 PM
Fazal on a roll. Another quality post:notworthy:

I agree with mamu Fazel here. I love Mushi but i think he is back too early which will hamper him and also dhiman.

Fazal mamu is right on the money when he says we are in zero cause we never stick with the new player and bring back oldies in a hurry.

Can u think if mushi was brought in after 2 years and if he scored like now then no one could dare to say anything against him if he fails one or two series. but instead we gave him a chance after one series and then if he fails he will become another Tusher/rokon/kapali... and in the mean time also dhiman will be broke...
so congratulations selectors for your near sited selections like some fans here in BC...

tonoy
May 30, 2008, 03:18 PM
1. Yes.
2. Yes.
3. What does a foreigner know? Does he know more than what we know on him?
4. Mohamadan did. Rafiq has a bigger pool to select from.

Next set of questions please.

OH someone just got served!!! Couldn't have said it better myself Tiger's_eye. Its time we learn that maybe Bangladesh can move without Ashraful.

Murad
May 30, 2008, 03:27 PM
In the next 1 year, so many players will be out of the National team for long time.

Some of them are:

1. Ashraful (if he doesnt play some good knocks in next 2/3 series, he will be out for long long time)
2. Aftab Ahmed (if he doesn't set his mind to score big instead of 30s and 40s)
3. Shahriar Nafees (if he doesnt improve over the next 1 year)
4. Mushfiqur Rahim (If he keep playing like he used to do before getting dropped)

Murad
May 30, 2008, 03:28 PM
Btw, what happend to Enamul Jr?

Why is he not in the A-team squad??

Why are the selectors treating him like this??

Tigers_eye
May 30, 2008, 03:39 PM
OH someone just got served!!! Couldn't have said it better myself Tiger's_eye. Its time we learn that maybe Bangladesh can move without Ashraful.
We all want an Ash-Aftab with brains in our team. They need to prove that their is an improvement of their thinking process. Show us in the domestic league 2008. Make the highest runs, beat the puniee wicket keepers scores. You are batsmen for crying out loud.

Until the brain transplants are done they need to stay clear from the national team. Selectors need to wake up.

bdchamp20
May 30, 2008, 03:57 PM
I think Dhiman is better than Dinesh Ramdin

Ishtylish cricketer
May 30, 2008, 05:44 PM
1. Yes.
2. Yes.
3. What does a foreigner know? Does he know more than what we know on him?
4. Mohamadan did. Rafiq has a bigger pool to select from.

Next set of questions please.

Thank god you're not the selector. You don't need to be a rocket scientists to bat. You need common sense and sometimes you require luck to go on your way. Game of cricket is as simple as you want it to be. If you get caught too much in details you won't be able to bat well. You'll probably laugh at what I'm about to say but I believe in batting or in bowling your mind needs to be clear and empty. Ashraful and Aftab when they have been successful they've done exactly that but as soon as they go in the shell and start playing for their spots they fail. Ashraful and Aftab have undeniable talent/potential and can win more games than any of the players the selectors or even you can name. Selectors need to surround them with players who can assisst them in the team cause not exclude them from the team. Just remember, the best batsmen in the countries usually don't get unnoticed. If we had an amazing batsman or two they would be playing for Bd right now. NCL performances mean nothing. If the national teams players were playing the entire season they would be the ones making the most runs.

Most Bd supporters are amazed at the fact they are not becoming better quicker. Unfortunately, you can't manufacture batsman overnight. It takes time. If you get rid of Ashraful, Aftab, etc (throw in Mash in there as well because he's not performing well of late) what does the team have left? Bunch of inexperienced players who have yet to face good bowling. We all saw the young prospects. There's no one better than Ash and Aftab in that bunch. In fact Siddons said that himself before the Newzeland series. Whoever were left were not exactly star material and unjustly left out. We just have to accept that we will be bad for very long time untill there are proper systems in place. That's when the tide will turn in our favour. This is the harsh reality of Bangaldesh cricket my friend.

Let me remind you of what happend in the world cup in 2003. We lost against Canada with operners who looked ok as players and perhaps even technically better than Tamim Iqbal but did squat didley. Aggessive players will look foolish getting out but what they offer in terms of potential is too great to pass up. Bottom line is, in most teams expect for the top 3-4 batting teams who have surplus of talent at that departement, if you can win matches you will have a place in the team. It's just a matter of time before these "triple A" guys figure it out. Also, for ODIs who would you play against India and Pakistan? You, Fazal bhai, your friends?

Gowza
May 30, 2008, 05:47 PM
in regards to rahim and dhiman being dropped, rahim was having a string of bad scores when he got dropped, what's strange is dhiman was improving and was starting to make some decent scores when he got dropped. does anyone else think this sends a bad message to dhiman? either the selectors didn't acknolwedge dhiman's improvement or they just didn't care but either way i think it's a bit harsh and sending the wrong message. i know dhiman wasn't setting the world alight but you don't drop someone when they're doing better than they have ever done before, it just doesn't make sense.

as for rahim's recall, i hope he succeeds, the question is could he have improved enough in such a short time to make a difference to his performance internationally. my answer would be maybe a little bit but he couldn't have improved his game very significantly in such a short space of time so i'm doubtful that he will be that much better than he was just a month or two ago.

also i don't think anyone is shocked dhiman got dropped, just that they think he deserved more of ago. as for strike rates well dhiman's is much better than rahim's anyway so i don't see how anyone can use that as a negative for dhiman when his replacement is worse in that department and they were batting in the same position.

Gowza
May 30, 2008, 05:52 PM
and that's where fans have different philosophies. some people think players are the best purely on talent, others think output/performance plays much more of a role.

personally i'm in the 2nd category, i don't care how much talent a player has, if their performance is inconsistent then they're not good enough. just because they have superstar talent doesn't mean they are a superstar player.

i'd still have a problem with ashraful if everyone around him averaged 30-40 and he only averaged his 22. you can't be considered the best unless you can peform consistently well.

djnaved
May 30, 2008, 08:33 PM
Thank god you're not the selector. You don't need to be a rocket scientists to bat. You need common sense and sometimes you require luck to go on your way. Game of cricket is as simple as you want it to be. If you get caught too much in details you won't be able to bat well. You'll probably laugh at what I'm about to say but I believe in batting or in bowling your mind needs to be clear and empty. Ashraful and Aftab when they have been successful they've done exactly that but as soon as they go in the shell and start playing for their spots they fail. Ashraful and Aftab have undeniable talent/potential and can win more games than any of the players the selectors or even you can name. Selectors need to surround them with players who can assisst them in the team cause not exclude them from the team. Just remember, the best batsmen in the countries usually don't get unnoticed. If we had an amazing batsman or two they would be playing for Bd right now. NCL performances mean nothing. If the national teams players were playing the entire season they would be the ones making the most runs.

Most Bd supporters are amazed at the fact they are not becoming better quicker. Unfortunately, you can't manufacture batsman overnight. It takes time. If you get rid of Ashraful, Aftab, etc (throw in Mash in there as well because he's not performing well of late) what does the team have left? Bunch of inexperienced players who have yet to face good bowling. We all saw the young prospects. There's no one better than Ash and Aftab in that bunch. In fact Siddons said that himself before the Newzeland series. Whoever were left were not exactly star material and unjustly left out. We just have to accept that we will be bad for very long time untill there are proper systems in place. That's when the tide will turn in our favour. This is the harsh reality of Bangaldesh cricket my friend.

Let me remind you of what happend in the world cup in 2003. We lost against Canada with operners who looked ok as players and perhaps even technically better than Tamim Iqbal but did squat didley. Aggessive players will look foolish getting out but what they offer in terms of potential is too great to pass up. Bottom line is, in most teams expect for the top 3-4 batting teams who have surplus of talent at that departement, if you can win matches you will have a place in the team. It's just a matter of time before these "triple A" guys figure it out. Also, for ODIs who would you play against India and Pakistan? You, Fazal bhai, your friends?

Ishtylish cricketer? vai, your comments sounds like an ordinary cricketer expressing his point of view. Even a 10 year old kid can make a prediction of two bolod's performance....

thebest
May 31, 2008, 09:44 AM
Please name me one wicketkeeper batsman worse than Dhiman Ghosh among test playing nation? Can you really? In a great player usually there are signs of greatness. There are none in Dhiman Ghosh. He's not the most technically correct (granted no one in Bd is), can't hit the long ball (which I should remind you that people said he was capable of), at best he's a slow accumulator of runs at #8, even par with the gloves and very quiet on the field (keepers are supposed to be live wire which he wasn't). Best way for anyone to move up the order is to strike at a quick pace and stay not out. If Dhiman stayed not out with high strike rate (in lower order) he would have at least proved that he can play more balls which may eventually forced him up the order but if you're struggling ie. failing to score quickly against the likes of Younis Khan, and other part timers...you can't earn anyone's sympathy and defintely not respect. Upul Tharanga, Dravid, Younis Khan, AB Devilliers may have been better keepers than Dhiman Ghosh if they stuck to keeping. Do you think there's any batsman better than Ashraful in Bangladesh? Better yet is Bd better without Ashraful? Ask a foreigner who's the best batsman in Bangladesh the name Ashraful may come up more times than you can possibly imagine. If a country has limited talent and skills pool, selectors haven't got too many options.
Nobody is arguing Dhiman is better than any other w/k batsman of test world. when we are playing a w/k @8, we want him a wicketkeeper not a batsman and he is a better Wk than our Mushy or WI's Ramadin; I would consider him on par with Akmal and Dhoni on wk skill. Our selector/ team management did not expect him to score run; but drop him due to lack of run . this is simply farce.
There are better batsman in Bangladesh than the two bolods in Bangladesh. Mohamodon's (I salute them) already proved them. There is Shejan (Ctg div capt) is one. Some foreigners still ask me why HB is not playing for Bangladesh? The Bolod selectors has much better pool and foundation than Faruq & Co had? But they cannot utilize due to lack of leadership and vision
Let me ask you some question
1. can you tell me any of our so-called batsmen is better than any player who can bat (not batsman, but bowlers who could bat like Lee, Broad, Vass, Harris, Ramdin)
2. can you tell me sign of greatness of your beloved bolod? don't show me the two fluke innings?
3. Suppose Dhiman remain not out, then some of you would call him selfish. And how would it prove that he deserves to be play at top? because he was playing againest Yunis Khan. This is double edge sword. I remember Sakib's innings in Champions Trophy against SL was called selfish innings by some of us
4. Why we need foreigner's certificate to prove that Ash is good? Most foreigner's would watch BD's match when they were playing against us. and they were manipulated by the commentators. every time Ashfluke come to bat the remind the spectator that he scored a century against the Aussi to win us an ODI; as if HB did nothing on that match

BANFAN
May 31, 2008, 11:36 AM
I expect to see a different team with the same players, within next few series.

I don't intend to have a discussion on JS here. His approaches and experiments were not effective so far. If he just allows the players like Ash and Aftab to play feely, they will perform much better. They are not the kind of players who listens to dictations.

I expect some blistering performance from them, and clebrate their freedom from the team rules.

Ishtylish cricketer
May 31, 2008, 02:27 PM
he is a better Wk than our Mushy or WI's Ramadin; I would consider him on par with Akmal and Dhoni on wk skill.

I know we're all fans of Bd cricket but Dhiman is not as good as either of those guys in keeping nor batting. I actually remember Akmal saving a test match against India in India. Akmal misses some but in most game he's a fantastic keeper. Ramdin's footwork and keeping back to the faster men and in front against spinners saw him gain lot of praises from Ian Chappel and Dujon. Dhiman's keeping is no where near him. Batting wise Ramdin is perhaps equal to Dhiman but Ramdin has a decent strike rate than Dhiman. Necessary at #7-8.


There are better batsman in Bangladesh than the two bolods in Bangladesh. Mohamodon's (I salute them) already proved them. There is Shejan (Ctg div capt) is one. Some foreigners still ask me why HB is not playing for Bangladesh? The Bolod selectors has much better pool and foundation than Faruq & Co had? But they cannot utilize due to lack of leadership and vision

What does the coach think of them? The so called stars of domestic cricket? When Virender Shewag was dropped he said that playing in domestic after you play international is very hard. The pace of the bowlers are slower, the pitches are bad and players have hard time gettin motivated for the games. Anyway, bring Shejan and whoever performed and see how they do. The problem is you can't blow up the whole line up just because someone is making runs against poor quality bowling. Selectors have to judge how they made runs as well. If you make runs in a credible league or tournament then no one will question the efforts but NCL, premiere league still have "fat" fast bowlers who run out of gas after few overs and the bounce in our pitches are hardly frightening. If you drop Ashraful or Aftab they will make the runs and be back in quick times. I just think instead of being impatient you just have to wait and hope these guys will improve. Remember these guys are still young.


Let me ask you some question
1. can you tell me any of our so-called batsmen is better than any player who can bat (not batsman, but bowlers who could bat like Lee, Broad, Vass, Harris, Ramdin)
2. can you tell me sign of greatness of your beloved bolod? don't show me the two fluke innings?
3. Suppose Dhiman remain not out, then some of you would call him selfish. And how would it prove that he deserves to be play at top? because he was playing againest Yunis Khan. This is double edge sword. I remember Sakib's innings in Champions Trophy against SL was called selfish innings by some of us
4. Why we need foreigner's certificate to prove that Ash is good? Most foreigner's would watch BD's match when they were playing against us. and they were manipulated by the commentators. every time Ashfluke come to bat the remind the spectator that he scored a century against the Aussi to win us an ODI; as if HB did nothing on that match

Answers:
1. Yes. Lee and the other bowlers didn't score centuries (4 in tests and 1in ODI) against quality oppositions. Also you forgot the WC performances by those two. Whoever makes runs there are usually considered good.
2. The signs are there in the shots they play mate. Remember form is temporary class is permanent.
3. I said if he stayed not out playing at a HIGH strike rate. Even if you hit 4s and 6s against Younis Khan, it proves that you can hit. All you need as a player is some oppotunities and he failed to do that for himself.
4. HB was statistically our best test batsman no doubt about that. Ash's runs came more recently than HB so the commentators remember his knocks more vividly.

Last thing I will say about this issue is that you need stars to win you games not bits and pieces players. Whatever wins we've had in recent times were due to the play of the guys who are the most inconsistent. I would much rather win a few than lose respectfully. We just have to wait till these guys figure it out because as even Siddons said there aren't too many class players in Bd, according to him Ash is one of the very few. If you bring in Shejan who can say make 30 every game though even that is not a gurantee, you have to drop one of the few stars we have and who on his/their days can win you games. If there were players who make 5-6 centuries a season than I would understand your frustration but fact of the matter is that no one does that. Also teams usually don't drop their best batsman. As much as I hate the inconsitencies I know what the reality is. We just have to accept it.

Ishtylish cricketer
May 31, 2008, 02:33 PM
Ishtylish cricketer? vai, your comments sounds like an ordinary cricketer expressing his point of view. Even a 10 year old kid can make a prediction of two bolod's performance....

Much rather have ordinary comments than confusing ones.

Gowza
May 31, 2008, 08:33 PM
you keep mentioning dhiman's "poor" strike rate but you're ignoring that rahim's strike rate is even worse than dhiman's. dhiman's strike rate is over 60 which isn't electric but is at least respectable, rahim's is down around 50.

you say these players are young and giving them time to improve yet you don't want to give dhiman the time to improve. dhiman is more of a match winning batsman than rahim, anyone who can get around 150 (at a strike rate of nearly 150) in a one-day match can't be consider any less than a match winning player. rahim's highest one-day score is 58, all you have to do is compare their top scores to know who's better suited to one-day cricket. not saying rahim can't become a better one-day player than dhiman but he's going to have to keep up his domestic consistency, up his strike rate and improve his keeping to do so.

as for class, consistency is part of being classy, a player can't be condsidered a class player without putting the numbers on the board. you're basically saying it doesn't matter what average ashraful has he's still the best batsman in the team. what if he averaged 10 but still had all the shots he has now? form is temporary class is permanent, when people say that they're talking about players who usually score runs but are having a rough trot. that's not ashraful, ashraful has the potential to be a class player but to date he isn't one.

how can he be BD's best player if his average isn't even top 5 of the batsmen in the team? tamim, aftab, shakib, riyad and SN all have better averages than ashraful.

BD's bits and pieces players are doing a good job i.e. tamim, riyad, shakib, SN. it's the so called star players who aren't doing their job i.e. ashraful, aftab, mortaza and recently razzak and rasel (not that rasel's got many chances).

he's played at this level so long he could be considered a veteren and he's very inconsistent. he might score a half century every 7.9 ODI innings on average, but other batsmen in the team do it more regularly so why is ashraful considered the match winner, the star and the best batsman? shouldn't the batsmen that do what he does on a more regular basis be considered better?

tamim gets a half century ever 4.5 innings, aftab does it every 5.7 innings, shakib does it every 5.1 innings, SN does it every 4.1 innings. SN has more centuries than ashraful in about half the innings, shakib has one more century in less than half the innings, tamim has an equal number of centuries already in far less innings. i'm not sure why ashraful other than the talent factor is still considered the best batsman. just because you have the most talent doesn't automatically mean you're the best. the best should be measured by output not potential. potential just means they "might" be better in the future, but that might is no certainty.

Ishtylish cricketer
May 31, 2008, 09:17 PM
you keep mentioning dhiman's "poor" strike rate but you're ignoring that rahim's strike rate is even worse than dhiman's. dhiman's strike rate is over 60 which isn't electric but is at least respectable, rahim's is down around 50.

you say these players are young and giving them time to improve yet you don't want to give dhiman the time to improve. dhiman is more of a match winning batsman than rahim, anyone who can get around 150 (at a strike rate of nearly 150) in a one-day match can't be consider any less than a match winning player. rahim's highest one-day score is 58, all you have to do is compare their top scores to know who's better suited to one-day cricket. not saying rahim can't become a better one-day player than dhiman but he's going to have to keep up his domestic consistency, up his strike rate and improve his keeping to do so.

as for class, consistency is part of being classy, a player can't be condsidered a class player without putting the numbers on the board. you're basically saying it doesn't matter what average ashraful has he's still the best batsman in the team. what if he averaged 10 but still had all the shots he has now? form is temporary class is permanent, when people say that they're talking about players who usually score runs but are having a rough trot. that's not ashraful, ashraful has the potential to be a class player but to date he isn't one.

how can he be BD's best player if his average isn't even top 5 of the batsmen in the team? tamim, aftab, shakib, riyad and SN all have better averages than ashraful.

BD's bits and pieces players are doing a good job i.e. tamim, riyad, shakib, SN. it's the so called star players who aren't doing their job i.e. ashraful, aftab, mortaza and recently razzak and rasel (not that rasel's got many chances).

he's played at this level so long he could be considered a veteren and he's very inconsistent. he might score a half century every 7.9 ODI innings on average, but other batsmen in the team do it more regularly so why is ashraful considered the match winner, the star and the best batsman? shouldn't the batsmen that do what he does on a more regular basis be considered better?

tamim gets a half century ever 4.5 innings, aftab does it every 5.7 innings, shakib does it every 5.1 innings, SN does it every 4.1 innings. SN has more centuries than ashraful in about half the innings, shakib has one more century in less than half the innings, tamim has an equal number of centuries already in far less innings. i'm not sure why ashraful other than the talent factor is still considered the best batsman. just because you have the most talent doesn't automatically mean you're the best. the best should be measured by output not potential. potential just means they "might" be better in the future, but that might is no certainty.

Dhiman was brought in because he was a better hitter but he didn't show that. Anyway, I hope Dhiman scores and hits many boundaries and I will have no problem eating my words. The original argument was about the AAA not just about Ashraful alone. In this forum many complain about Ash and Aftab a lot because they are not that consistent. Ashraful out of 5 innings he will play one well (ie. quick 30 or 40). Aftab consistently gets 30s but nothing more than that. SN is consistent against minnows and he seems more like a chopper than a batsman. Ashraful may get out but most times he plays conventional shots but it's his intention to dominate bowlers that get him in trouble. Tamim is more consistent than all of them yet he doesn't play in tests. Ahead of him players of lesser ability get chosen and that really irritates me because we don't get anywhere with these newly brought in players. Yes, he has technical issues but who doesn't in Bd? Shewag is a convention defying batsman who makes plenty of runs in tests and in fact he makes more runs in tests than ODIs so if he can why not Tamim or Ash or Aftab. The 2 reasons I still believe in these guys are because they are still young and I haven't seen anyone better that may be able to grab their spots.

djnaved
May 31, 2008, 09:50 PM
Shewag is a convention defying batsman who makes plenty of runs in tests and in fact he makes more runs in tests than ODIs so if he can why not Tamim or Ash or Aftab. The 2 reasons I still believe in these guys are because they are still young and I haven't seen anyone better that may be able to grab their spots.

bro, u r comaparing tamim with ash/aftab? tamim already proves that what he is capable of. Tamim is still young, and he is showing his best in both odi's and tests. you can't expect more from him. Ash and aftab are young by age, not by performance. You can't tell a guy young, who has already played more than 100 odi's and 15 tests. There are many players in our club cricket, who can do much better than ash or aftab, but they are not getting chances, nor they are getting chances to be in the Academy or A team. It's because of the selectors. And one thing, you can't judge a player by looking 10 games he played. And one thing is that, batting wise, i don't see much batting strokes from dhiman. Keeping wise, no doubt that he is much better than mushy. If you don't think he is not good at keeping, then watch those games again he played.

Gowza
May 31, 2008, 11:18 PM
for the record i haven't given up on ashraful and aftab and i do think they should be in the team.

my point is there are batsmen in the team who can achieve what ashraful can at his best (centuries and half centuries) more consistently than ashraful. they're already doing it and that is what makes them better than ashraful.

is ashraful the most talented? most definitely, but that doesn't mean he's the best. the best are the players who perform the best the most consistently and nowadays ashraful is a few spaces down that list of players.

there's a whole bunch of up and coming players who have some really good talent e.g. junaid, raqibul, imrul, naeem and others. they still need more time and i do think ashraful and aftab would currently do better than them.

Razi
June 1, 2008, 04:18 AM
you keep mentioning dhiman's "poor" strike rate but you're ignoring that rahim's strike rate is even worse than dhiman's. dhiman's strike rate is over 60 which isn't electric but is at least respectable, rahim's is down around 50.

you say these players are young and giving them time to improve yet you don't want to give dhiman the time to improve. dhiman is more of a match winning batsman than rahim, anyone who can get around 150 (at a strike rate of nearly 150) in a one-day match can't be consider any less than a match winning player. rahim's highest one-day score is 58, all you have to do is compare their top scores to know who's better suited to one-day cricket. not saying rahim can't become a better one-day player than dhiman but he's going to have to keep up his domestic consistency, up his strike rate and improve his keeping to do so.

as for class, consistency is part of being classy, a player can't be condsidered a class player without putting the numbers on the board. you're basically saying it doesn't matter what average ashraful has he's still the best batsman in the team. what if he averaged 10 but still had all the shots he has now? form is temporary class is permanent, when people say that they're talking about players who usually score runs but are having a rough trot. that's not ashraful, ashraful has the potential to be a class player but to date he isn't one.

how can he be BD's best player if his average isn't even top 5 of the batsmen in the team? tamim, aftab, shakib, riyad and SN all have better averages than ashraful.

BD's bits and pieces players are doing a good job i.e. tamim, riyad, shakib, SN. it's the so called star players who aren't doing their job i.e. ashraful, aftab, mortaza and recently razzak and rasel (not that rasel's got many chances).

he's played at this level so long he could be considered a veteren and he's very inconsistent. he might score a half century every 7.9 ODI innings on average, but other batsmen in the team do it more regularly so why is ashraful considered the match winner, the star and the best batsman? shouldn't the batsmen that do what he does on a more regular basis be considered better?

tamim gets a half century ever 4.5 innings, aftab does it every 5.7 innings, shakib does it every 5.1 innings, SN does it every 4.1 innings. SN has more centuries than ashraful in about half the innings, shakib has one more century in less than half the innings, tamim has an equal number of centuries already in far less innings. i'm not sure why ashraful other than the talent factor is still considered the best batsman. just because you have the most talent doesn't automatically mean you're the best. the best should be measured by output not potential. potential just means they "might" be better in the future, but that might is no certainty.

Very very well said...this is the true story in Bangladesh Cricket...!!!

BANFAN
June 1, 2008, 04:47 AM
Well said Gawza, It's true that most of the other players you have mentioned have better average and better performance, but despite that, how many matches have we won with their contribution? Almost none (less minows)

But that doesnot mean that their performance was not important. they are definitely guarding our A$$, they saved us from a lot of probable embarassments. That's equally important.

Ash is the best proven match winner we have, not necessarily the best batsman. Unfortunately he is not scoring these days. We badly need him to perform, if we want to get some taste of victories. Untill some others come up as match winners. Tamim, Junaid, Nazim etc have the potentials. When they come out strong, we will have enough choice to dump Ash. Till then, we probably don't have a choice but to take chance with Ash, butter and polished him to keep his mood high, to present us with some victories to celebrate.

Only Ongsho-grohon is not enough today, nothing can be compared to winning.

thebest
June 1, 2008, 12:01 PM
Answers:
1. Yes. Lee and the other bowlers didn't score centuries (4 in tests and 1in ODI) against quality oppositions. Also you forgot the WC performances by those two. Whoever makes runs there are usually considered good.
For You
M R Avg
Ash 42 1922 24.46
Lee 67 2260 21.35
Vaas 104 2928 24.19
Add to that Lee's job is not making century his job is taking wicket. He is doing that. Pls Remember Lee almost won a match by his batting exploit against arguably the best bowling attack in Ashes series. and many cases he has to make quick runs. so he throws his bat which deflate is average. Same goes for Vass. Statistically no difference

2. The signs are there in the shots they play mate. Remember form is temporary class is permanent.
Using your criteria, I am the greatest batsman of the world. My shots are came from the Manuel of MCC. But most cases I connect 1 out of 1000. Joking aside a CLASS player is usually in form 70% innings of his career; unfortunately your bolods are in form in 5% of career innings. I told you before and reiterating now he is a fluke with about six good innings out of close to 200 innings. Show me another top order class batsman with similar stat.

3. I said if he stayed not out playing at a HIGH strike rate. Even if you hit 4s and 6s against Younis Khan, it proves that you can hit. All you need as a player is some oppotunities and he failed to do that for himself.
Why do not you ask the same question to the top order which leave the question to number 8 batsman to remain not out with high strike rate against part timer. He is number 8; he was not there to score run but to keep wicket. he did it admirably.

4. HB was statistically our best test batsman no doubt about that. Ash's runs came more recently than HB so the commentators remember his knocks more vividly.
I gave you specific example. According to your logic played HB the game before 2005 and Ash on that day. You must be genius to discover that two batsmen from two different time period playing together. I should ask Dr Younis to nominate you for Noble in Physics. And could you please arrange one where Don and Viv playing together againest Holding and Wasim Akram


Last thing I will say about this issue is that you need stars to win you games not bits and pieces players.
I agree with this. Unfortunately you identified as Star are actually shooting star.

Whatever wins we've had in recent times were due to the play of the guys who are the most inconsistent. I would much rather win a few than lose respectfully.
Our biggest win that is WC India is achievd by three unknowns and still we do not consider them Star (may be one). Actually your star could have cause us the place in Super 8 by their stupid go slow approach
We just have to wait till these guys figure it out because as even Siddons said there aren't too many class players in Bd, according to him Ash is one of the very few.
Don't quote me JS. He knows nothing about BD cricket and cricketers. He is just another fat Australian like Trevor Chappel. I have enough of the bull **** of JS and his buttering of Ashfluke. if anybody told me a player has Class averaging in mid 20s after playing close to 200 innings I have to seriously ask his cricket sense and JS is consistently doing that. We are not asking his cricket sense

If you bring in Shejan who can say make 30 every game though even that is not a gurantee, you have to drop one of the few stars we have and who on his/their days can win you games. If there were players who make 5-6 centuries a season than I would understand your frustration but fact of the matter is that no one does that.
So how many century in this season our best player Ashfluke scored? None. He can not score agaiesnt poor quality bowlers and you expect him to play intelligent high quality bowlers. You should check a doctor

Also teams usually don't drop their best batsman. As much as I hate the inconsitencies I know what the reality is. We just have to accept it.
There are enough example of drop of nonperforming best player (Dada, Waugh comes into mind; even our own HB). I know the reality. But I have enough of the inconsistency. I would rather accept defeat with consistent player who are willing to learn (i.e. Tamim, Sakib, Riyad, Mushy, Dhiman) than some headstrong performer who did not learn anything after playing 7 years in international circuit and claim that they are young; today another bolod (SN) claim that one of the reason for defeat is inexperience

Murad
June 1, 2008, 12:19 PM
Ashraful er average kharap hoye geche or first 50 match e.

He was doing worse in every match but still the selectors kept him playing.

His average for first 50 match was around 14-16.

But after that he has improved a lot in his average.

His overall average will allways be around 22-25.

<TABLE class=engineTable><CAPTION>Debut - June 1st 2005</CAPTION><THEAD><TR class=head><TH class=left noWrap></TH><TH class=left title="playing span" noWrap>Span</TH><TH title="matches played" noWrap>Mat</TH><TH title="innings batted" noWrap>Inns</TH><TH title="not outs" noWrap>NO</TH><TH title="runs scored" noWrap>Runs</TH><TH class=padAst title="highest innings score" noWrap>HS</TH><TH title="batting average" noWrap>Ave</TH><TH title="balls faced" noWrap>BF</TH><TH title="batting strike rate" noWrap>SR</TH><TH title="hundreds scored" noWrap>100</TH><TH title="scores between 50 and 99" noWrap>50</TH><TH title="ducks scored" noWrap>0</TH><TH title="boundary fours" noWrap>4s</TH><TH title="boundary sixes" noWrap>6s</TH><TH></TH></TR></THEAD><TBODY><TR class=data1><TD class=left>unfiltered</TD><TD class=left noWrap>2001-2008</TD><TD>118</TD><TD>111</TD><TD>10</TD><TD>2238</TD><TD class=padAst>100</TD><TD>22.15</TD><TD>3062</TD><TD>73.08</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>13</TD><TD>11</TD><TD>237</TD><TD>21</TD><TD style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 3px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 1px; PADDING-TOP: 1px; WHITE-SPACE: nowrap">Profile (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/player/55988.html)</TD></TR></TBODY><TBODY><TR class=data1><TD class=left>filtered</TD><TD class=left noWrap>2001-2005</TD><TD>48</TD><TD>47</TD><TD>2</TD><TD>759</TD><TD class=padAst>66</TD><TD>16.86</TD><TD>1180</TD><TD>64.32</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>4</TD><TD>6</TD><TD>73</TD><TD>9</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

<TABLE class=engineTable><CAPTION>June 1st 2005 - June 1st 2008</CAPTION><THEAD><TR class=head><TH class=left noWrap></TH><TH class=left title="playing span" noWrap>Span</TH><TH title="matches played" noWrap>Mat</TH><TH title="innings batted" noWrap>Inns</TH><TH title="not outs" noWrap>NO</TH><TH title="runs scored" noWrap>Runs</TH><TH class=padAst title="highest innings score" noWrap>HS</TH><TH title="batting average" noWrap>Ave</TH><TH title="balls faced" noWrap>BF</TH><TH title="batting strike rate" noWrap>SR</TH><TH title="hundreds scored" noWrap>100</TH><TH title="scores between 50 and 99" noWrap>50</TH><TH title="ducks scored" noWrap>0</TH><TH title="boundary fours" noWrap>4s</TH><TH title="boundary sixes" noWrap>6s</TH><TH></TH></TR></THEAD><TBODY><TR class=data1><TD class=left>unfiltered</TD><TD class=left noWrap>2001-2008</TD><TD>118</TD><TD>111</TD><TD>10</TD><TD>2238</TD><TD class=padAst>100</TD><TD>22.15</TD><TD>3062</TD><TD>73.08</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>13</TD><TD>11</TD><TD>237</TD><TD>21</TD><TD style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 3px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 1px; PADDING-TOP: 1px; WHITE-SPACE: nowrap">Profile (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/player/55988.html)</TD></TR></TBODY><TBODY><TR class=data1><TD class=left>filtered</TD><TD class=left noWrap>2005-2008</TD><TD>70</TD><TD>64</TD><TD>8</TD><TD>1479</TD><TD class=padAst>100</TD><TD>26.41</TD><TD>1882</TD><TD>78.58</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>9</TD><TD>5</TD><TD>164</TD><TD>12</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

For his failures, i would blame the selectors only. They kept him playing for long time despite playing so bad during first 3/4 years.

Murad
June 1, 2008, 12:21 PM
To Ishtylist cricketer,

Dhiman didn't get enough chances. He was doing well but crap selectors dropped him for no reason.

In keeping he is much better than Mushy. He's also better stroke player than Mushy in the late order.

thebest
June 1, 2008, 12:36 PM
Ashraful er average kharap hoye geche or first 50 match e.

He was doing worse in every match but still the selectors kept him playing.

His average for first 50 match was around 14-16.

But after that he has improved a lot in his average.

His overall average will allways be around 22-25.

<table class="engineTable"><caption>Debut - June 1st 2005</caption><thead><tr class="head"><th class="left" nowrap="nowrap">
</th><th class="left" title="playing span" nowrap="nowrap">Span</th><th title="matches played" nowrap="nowrap">Mat</th><th title="innings batted" nowrap="nowrap">Inns</th><th title="not outs" nowrap="nowrap">NO</th><th title="runs scored" nowrap="nowrap">Runs</th><th class="padAst" title="highest innings score" nowrap="nowrap">HS</th><th title="batting average" nowrap="nowrap">Ave</th><th title="balls faced" nowrap="nowrap">BF</th><th title="batting strike rate" nowrap="nowrap">SR</th><th title="hundreds scored" nowrap="nowrap">100</th><th title="scores between 50 and 99" nowrap="nowrap">50</th><th title="ducks scored" nowrap="nowrap">0</th><th title="boundary fours" nowrap="nowrap">4s</th><th title="boundary sixes" nowrap="nowrap">6s</th><th>
</th></tr></thead><tbody><tr class="data1"><td class="left">unfiltered</td><td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">2001-2008</td><td>118</td><td>111</td><td>10</td><td>2238</td><td class="padAst">100</td><td>22.15</td><td>3062</td><td>73.08</td><td>1</td><td>13</td><td>11</td><td>237</td><td>21</td><td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">Profile (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/player/55988.html)</td></tr></tbody><tbody><tr class="data1"><td class="left">filtered</td><td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">2001-2005</td><td>48</td><td>47</td><td>2</td><td>759</td><td class="padAst">66</td><td>16.86</td><td>1180</td><td>64.32</td><td>0</td><td>4</td><td>6</td><td>73</td><td>9</td></tr></tbody></table>

<table class="engineTable"><caption>June 1st 2005 - June 1st 2008</caption><thead><tr class="head"><th class="left" nowrap="nowrap">
</th><th class="left" title="playing span" nowrap="nowrap">Span</th><th title="matches played" nowrap="nowrap">Mat</th><th title="innings batted" nowrap="nowrap">Inns</th><th title="not outs" nowrap="nowrap">NO</th><th title="runs scored" nowrap="nowrap">Runs</th><th class="padAst" title="highest innings score" nowrap="nowrap">HS</th><th title="batting average" nowrap="nowrap">Ave</th><th title="balls faced" nowrap="nowrap">BF</th><th title="batting strike rate" nowrap="nowrap">SR</th><th title="hundreds scored" nowrap="nowrap">100</th><th title="scores between 50 and 99" nowrap="nowrap">50</th><th title="ducks scored" nowrap="nowrap">0</th><th title="boundary fours" nowrap="nowrap">4s</th><th title="boundary sixes" nowrap="nowrap">6s</th><th>
</th></tr></thead><tbody><tr class="data1"><td class="left">unfiltered</td><td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">2001-2008</td><td>118</td><td>111</td><td>10</td><td>2238</td><td class="padAst">100</td><td>22.15</td><td>3062</td><td>73.08</td><td>1</td><td>13</td><td>11</td><td>237</td><td>21</td><td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">Profile (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/player/55988.html)</td></tr></tbody><tbody><tr class="data1"><td class="left">filtered</td><td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">2005-2008</td><td>70</td><td>64</td><td>8</td><td>1479</td><td class="padAst">100</td><td>26.41</td><td>1882</td><td>78.58</td><td>1</td><td>9</td><td>5</td><td>164</td><td>12</td></tr></tbody></table>

For his failures, i would blame the selectors only. They kept him playing for long time despite playing so bad during first 3/4 years.
so is it ok for a top order batsman to score an average of 26 in 64 innings in ODI. I would also like to have the test average during the period. Too lazy to spend time on some crap player

al Furqaan
June 1, 2008, 01:17 PM
1. can you tell me any of our so-called batsmen is better than any player who can bat (not batsman, but bowlers who could bat like Lee, Broad, Vass, Harris, Ramdin)

this type of thinking is flawed for a number of reasons:

1) those guys are lower order batsmen. if ash and aftab came in routibely at 8 or 9, with all the not outs they'd score, they'd prolly have bradman-esque averages...even with all their bolod-ity.

lets remember that jason gillespie scored a Test double far before sourav ganguly, but who would say that he's a better batter than dada?

2) it doesn't take into account potential. vaas hitting a century against an attack comprising of mohammad "the king of reverse swing" sharif is far from ash owning muttiah 'my doosras are chucked' muralitharan.

3) tail enders have a lot more freedom in the range of shots they can play. aerial, edged, slogged...they can do it all with impunity.

Sovik
June 1, 2008, 01:20 PM
does anyone have itinerary of Bangladesh A tour of Ireland?

Update?

B.C.B.
June 1, 2008, 08:36 PM
Tamim is still very young and inexperienced, and has plenty of rooms for improvement.

I think selectors did the right thing by picking only the players (for the A-team tour) who are really pushing for selection in the national team, and filling up rest of the positions by national team rookies.

Govt. took a step towards Mushfiquer rahim earliarld not attend H.S.C. exam in 2003. a special exam was taken for him.
ashraful also may get the chance

nahaz
June 1, 2008, 08:56 PM
My final 11:
Tamim
S Nafees (unfortuntely)
Rakibul
Ashraful
Alok
Mushfiqur
Reza
Riyad
Mashrafee
Shahadat
Dollar
12th: Razzak ( we only need two spinners, Alok is one, Riyad the other.) Raj can sub for Riyad, though possibly costing a little bit in batting.

Gowza
June 1, 2008, 11:21 PM
i don't think riyad and alok can hold up the spin department alone and there's no way riyad should be dropped because his batting has been good. the team needs a frontline spinner and razzak is really the only one who can do it. sure he might be out of form but he's been one of the teams best performers for awhile so he deserves the chance to fight for his place.

nahaz
June 2, 2008, 01:39 AM
You might be onto sth there Gowza. So who would you drop? Is it Dollar/Shahadat? Coz otherwise I think the lineup is ok.
I'm really hopeful of Alok making a comeback...even though I don't expect him to settle down before his 2nd/3rd game. He's a top 20 cricketer in Bangladesh...both in terms of form and class.

I think this is also rakib's chance to shine...

Gowza
June 2, 2008, 01:46 AM
probably would leave out dollar. as for raqibul, i'm kind of mixed, i think he probably should go back to A team/academy/domestic cricket for a little while to work on a few things, but then you can say that for almost every national player atm. i would like to see how raqibul would do batting at #3 though, certainly suits his natural game more than batting at 5 or lower but is he good enough to bat at #3? if he's not going to be consistent i'd prefer him work on his game outside of the national team.

Ishtylish cricketer
June 2, 2008, 08:39 AM
If you don't think he is not good at keeping, then watch those games again he played.
Yeah but he still dropped catches. His footwork seems worst than Mushy. In the ODIs and in tests we need a keeper who can bat as well. Dhiman didn't show that. That was my point. If he's the best we've got than we're in big trouble. Bringing in new batsmen would mean that those guys have to get familiar with the international scene, bowlers and everything that comes along with playing in ICC events. If you bring in new players are chances of winning against proven teams worsens. I doubt that even someone with a 60 average (there is no one in Bd with that average) in NCL or premiere league will be able to feel comforatable against the attacks of top 4-5 teams. Ash, and Aftab or Alok to a certain extent have faced those guys before and may be better able to handle the situation. My biggest assumption is that selectors and coaches are telling the truth when they said that they have not left any Tendulkars behind. If you're right and they are wrong which maybe a distinct possibility, they should be booted out and the cricket board should find someone who can do the job with integrity and honesty.

Tigers_eye
June 2, 2008, 08:49 AM
Thank god you're not the selector. You don't need to be a rocket scientists to bat. You need common sense and sometimes you require luck to go on your way.
What happens when Ash-Aftab (senior players) have no common sense? If they had some, they wouldn't have said, "I scored three double figure scores" or "I played good" when he scored 57 in five tries.
Game of cricket is as simple as you want it to be. If you get caught too much in details you won't be able to bat well. You'll probably laugh at what I'm about to say but I believe in batting or in bowling your mind needs to be clear and empty. Ashraful and Aftab when they have been successful they've done exactly that but as soon as they go in the shell and start playing for their spots they fail. Ashraful and Aftab have undeniable talent/potential and can win more games than any of the players the selectors or even you can name. Selectors need to surround them with players who can assisst them in the team cause not exclude them from the team.
I see you are satisfied with Eids. 2 wins and heavy bashing rest of the way is our standard. 20 average is all you can ask for from #3 and #4 position. Well, I am not satisfied with that.
NCL performances mean nothing. If the national teams players were playing the entire season they would be the ones making the most runs.
Wake up buddy!! This is earth not Mars. Where did you get these type of false ideas? Did you follow Ash-Aftab's batting in the domestic cricket? Not only in NCL but DPL also. They have had enough experience and it is time to bat with their head not with their instinct. They couldn't play the entire super league because they were benched. And you know why someone gets benched, correct?
Most Bd supporters are amazed at the fact they are not becoming better quicker. Unfortunately, you can't manufacture batsman overnight. It takes time. If you get rid of Ashraful, Aftab, etc (throw in Mash in there as well because he's not performing well of late) what does the team have left? Bunch of inexperienced players who have yet to face good bowling. We all saw the young prospects. There's no one better than Ash and Aftab in that bunch.
There may be no better player than Ash-Aftab there are others who know their limitations and play sensibly. I am willing to try Raqibul at #3, and give Shakib at his original position #4 back. They do average much more than Ash-Aftab.
In fact Siddons said that himself before the Newzeland series. Whoever were left were not exactly star material and unjustly left out. We just have to accept that we will be bad for very long time untill there are proper systems in place. That's when the tide will turn in our favour. This is the harsh reality of Bangaldesh cricket my friend.
When did Siddon's comment had similar value of biblical verses? He has also said many other things like we can't beat #6 team in five consecutive tries. If you believe him in all respect, you are being deceived. Siddons approach makes us think that we can not beat anyone other than WI. Even that would be a far cry.

Siddons is fed with information by the selectors. What ever they say Siddons believes it. What happened to Rafique (Spinner)? He didn't even know if Rafique was as good or bad as Abdur Razzak or Enam. Wasn't he unjustly left out?
Let me remind you of what happend in the world cup in 2003. We lost against Canada with operners who looked ok as players and perhaps even technically better than Tamim Iqbal but did squat didley. Aggessive players will look foolish getting out but what they offer in terms of potential is too great to pass up. Bottom line is, in most teams expect for the top 3-4 batting teams who have surplus of talent at that departement, if you can win matches you will have a place in the team. It's just a matter of time before these "triple A" guys figure it out. Also, for ODIs who would you play against India and Pakistan? You, Fazal bhai, your friends?
Are you okay? What is your point here? You are trying to draw a parallel with all aggressive players are all equal? Tamim vs Aftab or Tamim vs Ash or Tamim vs Alok? As far as I can remember both Ash and Alok played in 2003 WC. WTF did they do? Do you know their scores even? golden ducks and single digit scores were the norms.

It's just matter of time for what? How many games did they (Ash & Aftab) play? How many games more they need to play before they figure out how to be consistant? Do you understand what I am trying to say? Let me explain clearly one last time.

The selection process should be transparent. Free rides need to stop. Domestic cricket performances should be given priority to choose the players for national team. Ash-Aftab is no different than anyone else. They have to perform in the domestic cricket before they can say "yes, that is my birth right". If they perform in the domestic cricket and still suck in the national team so be it. That is what we will accept. If they can't even perform in the domestic cricket there is no way they can keep occupying a spot in the national team. We have come a long way from playing 9 or 8 players only. If in between these three anyone has a case then it should be Alok because he did score some runs in the domestic cricket. The rest two needs to show us they have something in them. Enough free ride.

Finally, I have a question for you. Why do you think Mohamadan bench the superstars (Aftab, Junaid - Ash for one game) in the last two matches of Premier League? Are they fools? The best part is the so called less talented players gave two wins, one with a emphatic fashion to the league leaders Biman. I'd like to know your explanation on this one. Mohamadan's money is more valuable than the BCB's, is that it? Or performance should be the criteria?

Thank you.

Fazal
June 2, 2008, 09:51 AM
TE,

When some one builds hope that after playing 100+ ODIs its still matter of time a player like Ash/Aftab will click next time and at the same time thinks that 11 ODI is good enough to judge a young player like Dhiman and tag him as no-good.... what's the point of wasting your time to try to convince him otherwise?

I may not agree but I can understand if someone thinks we still have hope in Ash/Aftab... or someone thinks a player may have limited capability after watching him 10/11 ODI games. But I see pointless to argue with someone who things both at the same time.... shows extra-ordinary patience for some players like Ash/Aftab and virtually no sign of patience for other players like Dhiman.......

I think its just wasting of our time to agrue with him, becuase what he says doesn't make sense at all.... completely contradictory logic.

"past is history.... future is mystry.... present is gift of god"

djnaved
June 2, 2008, 10:25 AM
Jammie Bolod destroys our confidence

auntu
June 2, 2008, 10:51 AM
Im at shatkira, jamalpur posting 1st time through mob. Feeling great 2 share with u all

Ishtylish cricketer
June 2, 2008, 07:46 PM
What happens when Ash-Aftab (senior players) have no common sense? If they had some, they wouldn't have said, "I scored three double figure scores" or "I played good" when he scored 57 in five tries.

I see you are satisfied with Eids. 2 wins and heavy bashing rest of the way is our standard. 20 average is all you can ask for from #3 and #4 position. Well, I am not satisfied with that.

Wake up buddy!! This is earth not Mars. Where did you get these type of false ideas? Did you follow Ash-Aftab's batting in the domestic cricket? Not only in NCL but DPL also. They have had enough experience and it is time to bat with their head not with their instinct. They couldn't play the entire super league because they were benched. And you know why someone gets benched, correct?

There may be no better player than Ash-Aftab there are others who know their limitations and play sensibly. I am willing to try Raqibul at #3, and give Shakib at his original position #4 back. They do average much more than Ash-Aftab.

When did Siddon's comment had similar value of biblical verses? He has also said many other things like we can't beat #6 team in five consecutive tries. If you believe him in all respect, you are being deceived. Siddons approach makes us think that we can not beat anyone other than WI. Even that would be a far cry.

Siddons is fed with information by the selectors. What ever they say Siddons believes it. What happened to Rafique (Spinner)? He didn't even know if Rafique was as good or bad as Abdur Razzak or Enam. Wasn't he unjustly left out?

Are you okay? What is your point here? You are trying to draw a parallel with all aggressive players are all equal? Tamim vs Aftab or Tamim vs Ash or Tamim vs Alok? As far as I can remember both Ash and Alok played in 2003 WC. WTF did they do? Do you know their scores even? golden ducks and single digit scores were the norms.

It's just matter of time for what? How many games did they (Ash & Aftab) play? How many games more they need to play before they figure out how to be consistant? Do you understand what I am trying to say? Let me explain clearly one last time.

The selection process should be transparent. Free rides need to stop. Domestic cricket performances should be given priority to choose the players for national team. Ash-Aftab is no different than anyone else. They have to perform in the domestic cricket before they can say "yes, that is my birth right". If they perform in the domestic cricket and still suck in the national team so be it. That is what we will accept. If they can't even perform in the domestic cricket there is no way they can keep occupying a spot in the national team. We have come a long way from playing 9 or 8 players only. If in between these three anyone has a case then it should be Alok because he did score some runs in the domestic cricket. The rest two needs to show us they have something in them. Enough free ride.

Finally, I have a question for you. Why do you think Mohamadan bench the superstars (Aftab, Junaid - Ash for one game) in the last two matches of Premier League? Are they fools? The best part is the so called less talented players gave two wins, one with a emphatic fashion to the league leaders Biman. I'd like to know your explanation on this one. Mohamadan's money is more valuable than the BCB's, is that it? Or performance should be the criteria?

Thank you.

I understand and am aware of all the things you have mentioned. However, if you drop Ash and Aftab psychologically do we have the mental aptitude to win any games? Do we have anyone to fall back on against bigger nations to deliver? I understand your frustration but remember there's always sujectivity in team selection. These guys at least can bash the minnows but the others may not be able to even that. Even if they can, dropping Ash or sacking him of captaincy in particular would mean committing the same crime as dropping Dhiman after few matches only. Bringing another person isn't going to solve the problem because most of the players who are brought in have been just as inconsistent in my opinion minus the flash and few occaisional eids. We will need another captain and vice captain and without Ash in particular. Furthermore, we will have no one with proven track record to score centuries in tests, in ODIs his presence will be missed. A team needs some assurance going into any series. Without experience players in Ash and Aftab there aren't too many players to guide them on the field. I just feel given that we don't have too much depth you can't drop a supposedly a star batsman just to teach him a lesson and jeopardize chances of perhaps winning a game if that person bats well. That's just my humble opinion. Also, because Ash has more test matches under his belt, he's more likely to score big runs than someone just starting out. Rakibul hasn't shown that he can win us matches yet so giving him the #3 position is perhaps not ideal.

I think Bd's batting crisis is analogous to the global warming problem, there's no magic bullet, you need a wholistic approach to solve it. Bottom line is unfortunately, untill someone really plays consistently, Ash and Aftab will stick around for the better or the worse. BTW I personally don't like any of the Bd batsmen, but I think we only have one or two batsmen who can become star players. The fair selection policy should be in place if it isn't already but I can't see the management selecting a team without those players just because the risk is too great even though you may argue that taking Ash and Aftab in the team more risky.

Fazal
June 3, 2008, 12:18 PM
Hai Hai Hai....

In first warm up match, Dhiman selector-der Ijjat loot liya....:notworthy:

Ashraful 16 ( with two lives), Mushiq 20 and Dhiman 71

BANFAN
June 3, 2008, 12:34 PM
There are some players who can only play in big stages :)

Our entire team looks to be of that category.

Tigers_eye
June 3, 2008, 12:41 PM
There are some players who can only play in big stages :)

Our entire team looks to be of that category.
lol, ektu generalise hoiye galo na?

There are some players who can only play in big stages once in a blue moon. Since they are the main stay of our team (backbone) that is why we suck the rest of the time. Root cause had been identified long time back. The boro bolod (Rafiqul Alam) and some fans doesn't understand that. The fans loyalty is with the players not with the team.

Even against the A team Ashraful got a life and then got out at 16. That is as careless as it gets. He knows all eyes are on him still can't fix his problem. He is not capable of fixing his problem. Not after playing 100+ intl games.

thebest
June 3, 2008, 01:31 PM
Hai Hai Hai....

In first warm up match, Dhiman selector-der Ijjat loot liya....:notworthy:


Do they have any Ijjat?
But it is Mushy's fault that he can not stay till the end; Ash is innocent because jealous A team players did not give him a third chance to score. And obviously Dhiman's fault that he scored 73 NO out of 71 balls.
Ash is a big match player. The only match he played well which have any significance was in 2005 unfortunately. He is even better than Bradman and Tendy together. Why should we drop him? even thinking of it is blasphemous.

ehteshamul
June 4, 2008, 09:19 PM
Hai Hai Hai....

In first warm up match, Dhiman selector-der Ijjat loot liya....:notworthy:

Ashraful 16 ( with two lives), Mushiq 20 and Dhiman 71

Hello Fazal Bhaiyya,

You are spot on with regards to Dhiman.

DHIMAN SHOWS THE WAY!

I feel sorry for Dhiman to be displaced from the National to A eleven. But if he fares outstandingly in the two practice matches and outperforms Rahim – (Already Proved he is a better batter in the first practice match who knows he may storm back into the national team. After all he is still in the reserve list.

Cheers!