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cricman
June 8, 2008, 04:38 PM
One of the positives for Bangladesh - apart from their excellent ground fielding - to emerge from this comprehensive defeat was the manner in which Ashraful went about collecting his runs. The pressure was certainly off because Bangladesh had no hope of winning, and perhaps Ashraful could have played with a little more urgency than 56 off 90 balls, but Siddons had asked for consistency from his captain and Ashraful showed he could shelve his flamboyance and knuckle down.

"We've worked hard on him [Ashraful] batting the way he batted today," Siddons said. "I know everyone is probably thinking that's not the Ashraful we expect, but the Ashraful that hits the ball in the air a lot, gets out a lot too, and comes off probably once or twice a year. I'm looking at someone who makes 60-70 quite often. I think he's a very hard player to get out if he bats the way he did today. We always tend to have one player who scores and the rest fail. We need to have more consistency."
I heard Rumblings that he batted like this vs Bangladesh A in his 67*, now 56*. That Flamboyant Enigma is gonna die, I think he is only A few in the country that can hold Anchor in an Innings and Stay all the way, It may lead to a defeatist approach to some but It can also be a Huge Building Block to build around, Remember JS said results are irrelevent at this stage, It kills us (The fans) but I think when his Contract is up , Wins May come far way to long in between this year ... but his input will have a long positive take on Bangladesh Cricket.

You want a Chadrapaul/Kallis Robot, Irregardless of the score he's (Ash) gonna bat w/little risk. Chasing 300+ you might wanna see the old Ash but thats lightning in a bottle, I wanna see the Ash in Sophia Gardens (no risk), not the one who blitzed England and India.

In terms of building blocks out of 11 pieces we have about 5 set

An Opener (Tamim), A Middle Order Anchor (I truly believe Ash will/has change), A spinning All rounder (Sakib), A finisher (Aftab, management need to know that), A opening Bowler (Mashrafe) and Perhaps a WicketKeeper (Rahim).

Now try to find 6 more, the 5 that we have still have 10+ years of cricket left. And We only played with 3 from the core, Sticking 17/18 yr olds in International is 95% rate of destroying there career only a few can survive so some blame has to go to the selectors, Dolar, Raqibul may be future greats but selectors are treating them like factory pieces

bujhee kom
June 8, 2008, 05:02 PM
i like this! great stuff cricman bhai!

sharjilh
June 8, 2008, 05:10 PM
lol as long as he can do it more consistently.....and maybe next time make a 50 in 70 rather than 80-90

Gowza
June 8, 2008, 05:36 PM
hopefully he doesn't lose all his flamboynace, it's more a matter of playing to the situation and play safe when you need to and when it doesn't matter as much or it comes to the latter overs playing a few more risky shots might be called for. i still believe ashraful has the talent to play aggressively safe as opposed to slow poke safe. but at least he's playing a more responsible game so the players looking up to him will take the positives from that.

Eshen
June 8, 2008, 05:48 PM
Gowza, Ashraful is not capable of playing according to situation. If I remember correctly, Harsha Bhogle once said Ashraful can pace his inning either in the first gear or in the fourth gear, there is nothing in between. He can either block or hit for boundaries, but struggles to find gaps and sneak singles.

However, I have no complain if Siddons wants Ashraful to give up his flamboyance and be a more defensive batsman.

Ishtylish cricketer
June 8, 2008, 05:57 PM
Playing the ball in the ground is ideal...but losing a game deliberately or giving up a match to get in form is not done even at domestic level. Back to school cricket for Ashraful it seems. You're taught to play the ball on the ground and not loft when you start out as a batsman. It's sad to see Ash getting his cricket education at the national team. Should he have not learned that already? This is negativity at its worst. Imo, best way to bat is with an empty mind, devoid of everything. The JS approach seems very unprofessional and not applicable at the international level but one can argue it's needed to resurrect players like Aftab and Ashraful's career. I hope he does something so our batsmen can play spinners. We are worse at playing spinners than english and SA batsmen. Tamim can't play spinners at all. He just has a slog sweep and a cut shot to offer. Kapali got trapped in the crease and was beaten by Afridi's quicker one. Expected better than that from him. He must score because he won't get too many more opportunities. Mahmudullah at least tried to up the rate but the way got bowled, it looked very ugly. He should be a regular in the team though, he has lots to offer. I felt bad for the players because giving up a match would not be not appreciated by competitive individuals. I don't know how many players will buy into JS's "don't worry about winning" approach but it may and hopefully will lead to success few years later. Till then we can expect struggles of this nature, every now and then.

MohammedC
June 8, 2008, 06:02 PM
I am waiting till the next match to see what kind of consistency Ash shows.

Eshen
June 8, 2008, 06:09 PM
Playing the ball in the ground is ideal...but losing a game deliberately or giving up a match to get in form is not done even at domestic level. Back to school cricket for Ashraful it seems. You're taught to play the ball on the ground and not loft when you start out as a batsman. It's sad to see Ash getting his cricket education at the national team. Should have not learned that already?
You have very much hit the nail there. Unfortunately, in school cricket or in age group cricket, they teach you how to play your shots, but not how to place your shots in gaps. That's why very often we see Tamim, Ashraful, or Aftab middling and timing the ball well but struggling to place their shots in gaps. Eventually they get frustrated and start playing lofted shots (and throw their wickets in the process).

cricket_pagol
June 8, 2008, 06:09 PM
i watched the beginning of this innings, Ash started very tentatively and he did not look comfortable at all. he was also playing some unnecessary shots. I think we have to wait for a while before Ashraful is consistent... But, hat tip to JS for trying to do something with Ashraful.

al Furqaan
June 8, 2008, 07:14 PM
Gowza, Ashraful is not capable of playing according to situation. If I remember correctly, Harsha Bhogle once said Ashraful can pace his inning either in the first gear or in the fourth gear, there is nothing in between. He can either block or hit for boundaries, but struggles to find gaps and sneak singles.

However, I have no complain if Siddons wants Ashraful to give up his flamboyance and be a more defensive batsman.


actually, asides from sakib and alok, ashraful is best batsman we have in terms of milking singles in the middle overs with the field spread out. today ash was in terrible form. he was getting beaten almost every ball for the first couple dozen balls he faced.

ash along with aftab are capable of playing in every gear. thats why its such a waste. if they weren't capable, then no one would speak of ash and aftab failing to live up to potential because they average about as much as afridi does, who is a player with just one gear. remember dhoni when he came on the scene? 183* in just 40 overs and what not...he can't do that all the time. as a result dhoni settled down, often playing innings slow enough to irk the indian fans. that coupled with batting at 6-7 has helped him maintain a 40+ average in ODIs.

basically there are 4 gears: first which is to bat for a draw, 2nd which is innings building, 3rd which is free scoring and 4th, which is slogging. ash and aftab are capable of playing all 4 - maybe not equally well, but they are still learning the game. aftab generally bats in 4th gear, and when he doesn't he's usually in 1st. ash is an enigma because he can bat in any gear, yet throw his wicket away. this game was one where he almost did twice, but apart from that he kept himself in check. today's ash batted in 1st and 2nd gear. the 5th ODI against PAK he batted in 3rd, but threw his wicket away.

sakib is a guy who i thought could only play in 1st or 2nd, but he definitely hit 3rd against pakistan. JO was a 1st gear only player, HB was a 1-2, rajin a 1, tamim mainly a 1 or 4, with occaisional 3rd gear. etc. raqibul hasan seems to be a 1-2 guy, and SN a 1,2,3 guy who just always gets out for 25 runs or less.

al Furqaan
June 8, 2008, 07:18 PM
our poor domestic infrastructure means that if ash, aftab are to learn, it will have to happen in the national team level. this means a number of negative things. firstly, that the team willl suffer as it did today. second, that the learning will be tougher since its done at an unforgiving level of difficulty and the rate of learning will probably be quite slow. it might take years, and thats if ash and aftab actually learn. and i think they can. its up to them to see what and how much they can take from siddons.

Alien
June 8, 2008, 08:10 PM
Its not just Ashfraful, we need consistency where batsmen and bowler works together. Cricket is no tennis, its no one man effort. Last night the bowlers did a fantastic job restricting them to 233, which would have been much higher. But our batsmen threw it all out.

Other times when our batsmen score 250-260, our bowlers pick their first wicket at 25th over with say 5 more runs to go.

We can have endless threads on improvement, endless calls for dropping of Ashfraful, Tamim, sacking of Siddon, Whatmore and what not?

We know exactly where the problem lies. Batting and bowling coordination, one shines the other flops. Everyone in the team needs to talk. For example, if Bangladesh bats first, Mashrafe should go and ask Tamim how was it, which kind of delivery, what areas of the pitch gave him a hard time and use/modify that to work against Salman Butt.

The win against Australia and especially against India in WC is a classic example of teamwork that's as rare as finding penguins in Sahara desert.

Thats just an example. If we can get this intial phase of improvement rolling, then we can talk about individual performances. Because last night, Ashraful had his mini-Eid of 56, but that wasn't enough to give us victory. End of the day he is just one man, a small portion of the big picture.

Ajfar
June 8, 2008, 08:12 PM
the way things r goin...siddon jokhon chola jabe..tokhon kono coach bangladesh re coaching korte raji hobe naa..ar siddon kothaw kono coaching er job pabe na...

djnaved
June 8, 2008, 08:53 PM
the way things r goin...siddon jokhon chola jabe..tokhon kono coach bangladesh re coaching korte raji hobe naa..ar siddon kothaw kono coaching er job pabe na...
ami ei commenta 4/5 agea korchilam, etodin por ei comment asche...good to see:-D

Siddons Asher khela change kore ki luv hobe bole shuni? Borjor Ash tar individual performance improve korte parbe, tamim and ash are the only pinch hitter batsman. Siddonser uchit tar vul gulo shudre dewa, abong tar natural game khelte dewa. Today the way that he played, if it was a test match or if BD batted first today and got this type of situation, then i would have no problem.

Zeeshan
June 8, 2008, 10:10 PM
basically there are 4 gears: first which is to bat for a draw, 2nd which is innings building, 3rd which is free scoring and 4th, which is slogging. ash and aftab are capable of playing all 4 - maybe not equally well, but they are still learning the game. aftab generally bats in 4th gear, and when he doesn't he's usually in 1st. ash is an enigma because he can bat in any gear, yet throw his wicket away. this game was one where he almost did twice, but apart from that he kept himself in check. today's ash batted in 1st and 2nd gear. the 5th ODI against PAK he batted in 3rd, but threw his wicket away.


that's why i prefer automatic... :smug:

BANFAN
June 9, 2008, 12:38 AM
"That Flamboyant Enigma is gonna die, I think he is only A few in the country that can hold Anchor in an Innings and Stay all the way, It may lead to a defeatist approach to some but It can also be a Huge Building Block to build around"

SO, first of all I hope all the critics of Ash have got their answer, why he batted like this. So lets not shout against Ash unnecessarily, he is still one of the best cricketers we have.

Now, the approach JS has taken is too risky and could even destroy our cric future, on the other hand if that's successful, it will be a miracle and one of its kind in the history of cricket. It will change all the perceptions of Cric Gurus across the globe.

Any cric Guru will tell you that it is impossible and more damaging to change the natural way of shot making of a player. You can refine him, rectify his technical abilities and make him more practice to get perfection in what he is doing.

I don't think a true pro to ever go 100% against the conventional wisdom. Why He had to pick up Ash to make him a grafter? Let him do what he was good at? We had a lot of grafting materials, why not develop some of them? I wish he succeeds, but if he fails, he has no means or ability to fix it back. Gambling at others cost & putting too many things at stake. Can't be a pro.

nobody
June 9, 2008, 02:06 AM
For Siddons Result is not important; for us it is important. Siddons is a loser. Now I understand why he is considered as one of the greatest aussi batsmen never to play test; because for him result is not important and for Australia the first and only option is winning

nsd3
June 9, 2008, 03:53 AM
A very interesting proposition is being deployed by JS at present. Giving Ashraful the license to kill did not help Bangladesh in most (almost all) of the cases. I believe he might become a full fledged batsman if he tries grafter options. After that he could do whatever the team needs him to do - bashing or grafting.

Having a long term approach (not bothering about winning when rebuilding the team is focused) by JS is still getting lot of support as well as criticism. I'd like to believe that he's doing the right thing for BD cricket.

Baundule
June 9, 2008, 04:09 AM
A national team player must be able to play according to the situation. And at every situation, a good batsman must be able to judge the deliveries. If a player is able to do that, he will play. If not, he has to go. This is the professional world of cricket.

I don't understand what JS's point here. Playing for losing will never work for improvement. And I think, those improvement phase for bangladesh should be over by now. We should be able to play for wins; otherwise we should ask ICC to give us a rest.

BANFAN
June 9, 2008, 05:58 AM
We have seen that how some class players have struggled to score at a demanding rate. While many face it difficult to score at a test rate (2/3 rpo); like Shehwaq/Jayasurya etc. All the players are human beings and we can't expect a person to be comforable at both extremes. There may be some very rare exceptions.

Adjustment is Possible within a sensible deviation limits to one's natural instincts.

Baundule
June 9, 2008, 07:23 AM
We have seen that how some class players have struggled to score at a demanding rate. While many face it difficult to score at a test rate (2/3 rpo); like Shehwaq/Jayasurya etc. All the players are human beings and we can't expect a person to be comforable at both extremes. There may be some very rare exceptions.

Adjustment is Possible within a sensible deviation limits to one's natural instincts.

Not really. These expectations are no exception, these are norms. Every internationally successful player has the ability to play according to the situation. Taking your example, Sehwag and Jayasuriya are very much able to control their innings as per the requirements of the situation.

However, form does matter. A player in good form ususally gets good touch and can score freely. In bad periods, however, they are either dropped by the team (like Hayden), or adjust their strategies and roles (like tendulkar or Jayasuriya).

If our Ashrafool is out of form in such an extent that he plays for losing, he should be dropped immediately. If he is just facing a bad period, e.g., getting starts and then playing a bad shot and getting out (like Jayasuriya in the earlier IPL matches), then he should do the simple adjustments of being more careful about shot selection. Nothing does justify his giving Yunus a maiden over.

Gowza
June 9, 2008, 07:53 AM
since when has hayden been dropped? unless your talking years ago before he became successful at test level? he's currently injured....

i agree though, a successful international player is one who can adjust their game to the situation. they aren't necessarily comfortable playing in certain situations which goes against their natural style but if it's needed and they put their head down they can do it the right way for the team. of course they're not necessarily as equally good in all situations but the top players are still solid players no matter how they have to play. definitely something ashraful and others in the national team need to learn.

Baundule
June 9, 2008, 08:21 AM
since when has hayden been dropped? unless your talking years ago before he became successful at test level? he's currently injured....


Thanks for your comment. He was dropped from the ODI squad after the 2005 Ashes.

Russell2k7
June 9, 2008, 08:37 AM
He is. I'd take this Ash over the 12 off 4 any day and any circumstance. This is what other coaches should have done. I know it sucks for us fans, but its for the "greater" good.

Fazal
June 9, 2008, 09:03 AM
So basically we have too choice.

a) Either Ashrafool aka bolod, or
b) Ashra Omar Belim aka slow poke.

SS
June 9, 2008, 09:06 AM
Siddons is bulding towards a bigger plan...regular plan for regular people..i guess bigger plan for big/fat headed ppl. Didn't know he had comparatively bigger head than his colleagues.

crikfreak
June 9, 2008, 09:43 AM
i dont like the way ash played.. he needs to play according to the situation.. even when he got settled.. he continued playing the same way.. i just hope that siddons plans' work.. if a few defeats now can lead to consistent victories latter on.. i'm ready to accept the harsh truth and the defeats and embarrasments that are yet to come.. i hope we have a good outcome out of all this..

Haider
June 9, 2008, 09:49 AM
I heard Rumblings that he batted like this vs Bangladesh A in his 67*, now 56*. That Flamboyant Enigma is gonna die, I think he is only A few in the country that can hold Anchor in an Innings and Stay all the way, It may lead to a defeatist approach to some but It can also be a Huge Building Block to build around, Remember JS said results are irrelevent at this stage, It kills us (The fans) but I think when his Contract is up , Wins May come far way to long in between this year ... but his input will have a long positive take on Bangladesh Cricket.

You want a Chadrapaul/Kallis Robot, Irregardless of the score he's (Ash) gonna bat w/little risk. Chasing 300+ you might wanna see the old Ash but thats lightning in a bottle, I wanna see the Ash in Sophia Gardens (no risk), not the one who blitzed England and India.

In terms of building blocks out of 11 pieces we have about 5 set

An Opener (Tamim), A Middle Order Anchor (I truly believe Ash will/has change), A spinning All rounder (Sakib), A finisher (Aftab, management need to know that), A opening Bowler (Mashrafe) and Perhaps a WicketKeeper (Rahim).

Now try to find 6 more, the 5 that we have still have 10+ years of cricket left. And We only played with 3 from the core, Sticking 17/18 yr olds in International is 95% rate of destroying there career only a few can survive so some blame has to go to the selectors, Dolar, Raqibul may be future greats but selectors are treating them like factory pieces

Dude Well said. Sounds like the nail been hit right on the head. I belive what u r trying to say.. I do like the approach Ashraful took in the first game. The moment Shariar Nafees went out.. (dumb a$$) and Tamim got stumped.. Ash knew this game is over... the run rate was climbing faster than a monkey on a banana tree. So he kept it quite and built his own innings... I don't see anything selfish in that.. him getting on form and becoming a better player ..helps the team in general.
And about u clarifying bout 5 solid players that we hav and need 6 more to solve the puzzle... I like the sound of that.. Those six more is gonna take time to come but if we follow siddon .. and understand what direction he is going.. This team will do a lot better than what we are used to.
About the selectors... how they treating the young talents as factory pieces.. haha... Dude u should definetely consider writing a letter to the selctors and the BCB ... they need some sense put into their small brains

Fazal
June 9, 2008, 09:51 AM
Biiger plan or no plan I don't know....but one thing is for sure.... the whole team, the master plan is focused and Dedicated for one thing and one thing only ... i.e. fixing Ash's problem...so i say why not change the team's name then like "Motin XI" something like that and designate Siddon as Motin's personal coach.

Haider
June 9, 2008, 09:53 AM
Now after all said..,. Let see what the next game against India has to offer. Now hoping Ash keeps his temper and play sensibly.. and if he does .. no matter what the outcome of the game.. if he can survive and score few runs.. I am definetely gonna be a believer that it's siddon who is training ash to become a better batsman and play the game using brain power (tactics) and not only natural talent.

SS
June 9, 2008, 10:01 AM
Biiger plan or no plan I don't know....but one thing is for sure.... the whole team, the master plan is focused and Dedicated for one thing and one thing only ... i.e. fixing Ash's problem...so i say why not change the team's name then like "Motin XI" something like that and designate Siddon as Motin's personal coach.

Motin bhai er shathe ki Baker Bhai jogajog ase naki...Siddons (he got shaved like the darowan in chipa goli) re threat marse mone...I guess Aftab and Alok are his assistant. Kutta alee ke dorkar...

Haider
June 9, 2008, 10:02 AM
Biiger plan or no plan I don't know....but one thing is for sure.... the whole team, the master plan is focused and Dedicated for one thing and one thing only ... i.e. fixing Ash's problem...so i say why not change the team's name then like "Motin XI" something like that and designate Siddon as Motin's personal coach.

dude... u sound upset becuase Ash is getting a lot of focus and attention. Don't forget when Ash gets on the crease.. inlcuding the commentators praises his talent and says his average doesn't do him justice. Now I can safely say.. he gots to have something special that everyone seen in him that draws ppl to his game. And when he fails to perform .. everyone degrades him.. and then when time comes for the the next game.. everyone gets excited all over again . Now not a lot of athlete gets this kind of attention. He is something special... and he draws ppl into his game. offcoarse he haven't really prooved much yet in his 7 or 8 or 9 year career.. yet ppl are still waiting for him to come out of his shell one of these days. Siddon ... who is smart enuff to become a head coach of an international team recognizes Ashs Talent ... and I hope he is doing the right thing to turn our golden child into the speacial player that everyone expects him to be. I hope i am making sense here.. If not it was a waste of 3 minutes off my life.

abu2abu
June 9, 2008, 10:10 AM
If Siddons is right and this all works (only time will tell) then i think the fans will be nothing but pleased, at least then we could say "yes it hurt, yes it worked".

What BD fan doesn't want batsmen we can be proud of, that can grind out an innings when required or play with a flashing blade if appropriate?

We all want our best batsmen to be averaging 30+ in ODIs and if that means losing every match we play for the forseeable future then so be it. But there must be signs of progress (like ash's 50 yesterday). These must be clear signs, however. For example if ash plays scores another solid 50 against India, then we can argue a pattern is emerging...

Haider
June 9, 2008, 10:10 AM
And about Aftab... I also anxiously wait to see him bat .. and he also has no consistency just like Ash. But for some reason.. i feel like Aftab doesn't have the drive or will power to become a better patient cricket player in the future.... Hope I am wrong. Mashrafe.. is a fine bowler.. he knows the line and length and understand the pitch... but for some reason his wicket taking ability is deminishing, Shahadat needs a lot more experience to become consistence.. Razzak... one of our best bowler. Mushfiq.. a little bit taller and he would've been the perfect wkeeper. His hight restricts him from catching edged balls.. but nothing is impossible .. he looks athletic enuff so he can spring around and fetch the balls. Saqib to me.. is a good bowler, and times good batsman.. but for some reaosn.. his batting looks very sketchy to me.,. his form of holding the bat and swinging looks very girly.. but .. it could just be his style.. and with that I am very tired and loosing my chain of thoughts .. so will not evaluate anymore players... and frankly not sure why was i doing that in the first place. I am just bored out of my mind.. freaking heat wave is keeping me captive in my house.. can't go outside .. its like a giant microwave..

Fazal
June 9, 2008, 10:13 AM
dude... u sound upset becuase Ash is getting a lot of focus and attention. .... I hope i am making sense here.. If not it was a waste of 3 minutes off my life.

Bhaat ...I think its a waste of 3 minutes of your life . So next time don't waste any more time ... rather enjoy Ashraful Omar Belim's recorded (this) innings 20 more time. That will be better use of your time.


btw with motin.... I am seeing a spade as a spade.... as few people alreasy said Motin doen't have a 2nd gear or a third gear. either have a first gear with lot of power or neutral gear.... ops sorry he have another gear that i forget to mention ....its back gear.
Motin's this innings is no different that what Javed omar Belim gave is us in the past.... if you appreciated those innings then yes you have every right to appreciate this one also... if you didn't and now you are doing this... then I have to say that you are not consistent with your opinion.

abu2abu
June 9, 2008, 10:16 AM
Also it's worth remembering how young these guys are. we talk about Alok Kapali as if he's the Ramprakash of BD cricket, a talented individual and fine domestic player who failed to reach his potential at the highest level. But he's only 24, we shouldn't assume he's finished! Ramps is nearing his 40s, he is finished.

Similarly, ash is only 24 I think i'm right in saying he's one of the youngest test captains ever. Even the mighty Graeme smith was older when he got the South Africa captaincy.

These guys have plenty of time to learn. If they keep playing at the highest level and keep learning, who knows how good they will be in 3-5 year's time?

Baundule
June 9, 2008, 10:38 AM
dude... u sound upset becuase Ash is getting a lot of focus and attention. Don't forget when Ash gets on the crease.. inlcuding the commentators praises his talent and says his average doesn't do him justice. Now I can safely say.. he gots to have something special that everyone seen in him that draws ppl to his game. And when he fails to perform .. everyone degrades him.. and then when time comes for the the next game.. everyone gets excited all over again . Now not a lot of athlete gets this kind of attention. He is something special... and he draws ppl into his game. offcoarse he haven't really prooved much yet in his 7 or 8 or 9 year career.. yet ppl are still waiting for him to come out of his shell one of these days. Siddon ... who is smart enuff to become a head coach of an international team recognizes Ashs Talent ... and I hope he is doing the right thing to turn our golden child into the speacial player that everyone expects him to be. I hope i am making sense here.. If not it was a waste of 3 minutes off my life.

I also wasted my 1 minute 10 seconds.

mafizraju
June 9, 2008, 10:49 AM
Bhaat ...I think its a waste of 3 minutes of your life . So next time don't waste any more time ... rather enjoy Ashraful Omar Belim's recorded (this) innings 20 more time. That will be better use of your time.


btw with motin.... I am seeing a spade as a spade.... as few people alreasy said Motin doen't have a 2nd gear or a third gear. either have a first gear with lot of power or neutral gear.... ops sorry he have another gear that i forget to mention ....its back gear.
Motin's this innings is no different that what Javed omar Belim gave is us in the past.... if you appreciated those innings then yes you have every right to appreciate this one also... if you didn't and now you are doing this... then I have to say that you are not consistent with your opinion.


I dont see anything wrong in the new approach. If we can gurantee a consistent ASH at the expense of a flamboyance and Eid Ash, I would take a consistent one. who is regularly scoring a half century and giving the middle order the kind of solid backbone desperately needed.

JO was never consistent. If he was able in consistently giving us a 50, he would still be in the team and would probably be the highest run scorer in ODI for bangladesh by long way out and would in 4000 runs mark by now.

I need consistently 240 runs. and that is possible if the players are consistent with on avg of 80% strike rate

Fazal
June 9, 2008, 11:00 AM
JO was not talented but he was much consitent than Ash. And One JO type innings from Ash doesn't suddenly make Ash more consistent. We have to wait adn see how consistent Ash turn out in this new approach. Just don't forget that Ash wash shaky at the begining and got one life.

Plus when JO was giving us long innings with a SR 60, people was ripping him off. Now some of the same people are praising Ash as if he have done something completely different than what JO did some of his long innings.

Unless Ash knows how to build and pace the innings, he will be either Afridi to Javed .... not like Inzy or world class batsmans who starts slowly but when they are set they exploit the opportunity and accelerate the RR.

BANFAN
June 9, 2008, 11:14 AM
If our Ashrafool is out of form in such an extent that he plays for losing, he should be dropped immediately. If he is just facing a bad period, e.g., getting starts and then playing a bad shot and getting out (like Jayasuriya in the earlier IPL matches), then he should do the simple adjustments of being more careful about shot selection. Nothing does justify his giving Yunus a maiden over.

You seem to be ignorant of the entire situation. Ashraful has just played an uncharacterstic knock, to prove that he was out of form?

A player in form can only do that. What he did was according to the coaches decision and JS is happy with him for that. So what's your complain about the highest scorer of the team? Justify others role first before you say something about the highest scorer.

What is so special about last over? Was there a chance to win the game? So what's the point? We don't need to be emotional.

Fazal
June 9, 2008, 11:24 AM
BANFAN, I thought you don't like Siddon and wants him out. Now all in a sudden you are quoting Siddon to prove your point of view in different threads. Suddenly what changed youe mind about Siddon?

His Grand Master Plan focusing making Ash from Afridi Jr. into Jave Omar Jr. changed your mind?

:-D

Baundule
June 9, 2008, 11:29 AM
You seem to be ignorant of the entire situation. Ashraful has just played an uncharacterstic knock, to prove that he was out of form?

A player in form can only do that. What he did was according to the coaches decision and JS is happy with him for that. So what's your complain about the highest scorer of the team? Justify others role first before you say something about the highest scorer.

What is so special about last over? Was there a chance to win the game? So what's the point? We don't need to be emotional.

Ok, I am ignorant. :-D

Now tell me why an 'in form' player will score a 50 at the strike rate of 60.21%, when the requirement was 97.1%? Did the coach ask him to do that? OK, even if the coach asks him to play an ODI like a 'to draw' test, why should he play this way? Why is he the captain of the team?

Ashrafool came to bat at #3. Why did not he go for creating the chances to win the match? The situation is not like this that he came to bat at the start of 40th over requiring 71 runs!

Ah, highest scorer!!!! Others' failure does not shadow his stupidity and inability. A captain must lead from the front. If he had the minimum sense of world cricket, he'd have kicked himself out of the team. What is your opinion on these?

BANFAN
June 9, 2008, 11:32 AM
......... Taking your example, Sehwag and Jayasuriya are very much able to control their innings as per the requirements of the situation.
Yes, they can control some of their shots according to situation of course. I haven't seen them ever grafting like Dravid/laxman, They really can't do it in that way. I meant changing the way of game completely. So Ash has proven that he can even bat through without making a lot of strokes, as the situation demanded.

If he was not holding that end, we would have been all out in 25 overs, forget about winning. We never had a chance of winning chasing 233 in 40 overs. Who was there to build a partnership with Ash? Lets talk about what the rest 9 batsmen have done? Understand the reality that Ash faced and lets stop criticizing one of the most sensible innings played by him.

Murad
June 9, 2008, 11:33 AM
From DailyStar:

Captain Ashraful however was more logical than his coach, for a change, as he was subdued despite making a half-century after a seven-match gap.

"I think it was possible to chase the score but we failed to have partnerships. Actually I had a plan to make a partnership with Tamim and then go for the kill but I have to change my mind after losing few quick wickets in the middle. Afridi bowled very well to dash our hopes," said Ashraful, most of whose innings brought something special for Bangladesh.


He wanted to chase the target. And he knows that only he and Tamim can do it together. But after Tamim got out, there was no one who can do it. Mushy, Alok & Riyad can stay on the crease and waste so many balls but cannot accelerate the run rate at the same time.

If Shakib was there, I think we would have seen a different Ash. Because AFter Tamim, only Shakib can make a good partnership and can accelerate the runrate very well.

Fazal
June 9, 2008, 11:35 AM
Ashrafool came to bat at #3. Why did not he go for creating the chances to win the match? The situation is not like this that he came to bat at the start of 40th over requiring 71 runs!


... to add further fuel to fire... Razzak scored 26 runs in 25 balls in the last few overs. Why is that? He was not following Siddon's law? Bowlers were too easy on him? The super plan only apply for Ash?...

Tigers_eye
June 9, 2008, 11:38 AM
actually, asides from sakib and alok, ashraful is best batsman we have in terms of milking singles in the middle overs with the field spread out. today ash was in terrible form. he was getting beaten almost every ball for the first couple dozen balls he faced.

ash along with aftab are capable of playing in every gear. thats why its such a waste. if they weren't capable, then no one would speak of ash and aftab failing to live up to potential because they average about as much as afridi does, who is a player with just one gear. remember dhoni when he came on the scene? 183* in just 40 overs and what not...he can't do that all the time. as a result dhoni settled down, often playing innings slow enough to irk the indian fans. that coupled with batting at 6-7 has helped him maintain a 40+ average in ODIs.

basically there are 4 gears: first which is to bat for a draw, 2nd which is innings building, 3rd which is free scoring and 4th, which is slogging. ash and aftab are capable of playing all 4 - maybe not equally well, but they are still learning the game. aftab generally bats in 4th gear, and when he doesn't he's usually in 1st. ash is an enigma because he can bat in any gear, yet throw his wicket away. this game was one where he almost did twice, but apart from that he kept himself in check. today's ash batted in 1st and 2nd gear. the 5th ODI against PAK he batted in 3rd, but threw his wicket away.

sakib is a guy who i thought could only play in 1st or 2nd, but he definitely hit 3rd against pakistan. JO was a 1st gear only player, HB was a 1-2, rajin a 1, tamim mainly a 1 or 4, with occaisional 3rd gear. etc. raqibul hasan seems to be a 1-2 guy, and SN a 1,2,3 guy who just always gets out for 25 runs or less.
Salaam bro,
That is your perception. Mine is Aftab can only play the #4 type. He is trying to learn the #1. Ash can play #1 and #4. He has long way to go to learn #2 and #3 in ODIs. The one who can play all for is Mohammad Yusuf. If you want to compare then compare with the standard.

Baundule
June 9, 2008, 11:47 AM
Yes, they can control some of their shots according to situation of course. I haven't seen them ever grafting like Dravid/laxman, They really can't do it in that way. I meant changing the way of game completely. So Ash has proven that he can even bat through without making a lot of strokes, as the situation demanded.

If needed, Tendu or Jaya can very well change their way of playing. They are not boom booms. They build innings, gets settled and once settled they can pace up their innings. But they are not stupid like Ashfool that they play according to the match situation, they have nothing to prove to the world, if they can be Dravid or Laxman. Our Ashfool, however, proved that he can be Golla, though the match situation demanded the opposite. If you are amused with this ability, it's your choice. I'd just consider it as an stupid act.

If he was not holding that end, we would have been all out in 25 overs, forget about winning. We never had a chance of winning chasing 233 in 40 overs. Who was there to build a partnership with Ash? Lets talk about what the rest 9 batsmen have done? Understand the reality that Ash faced and lets stop criticizing one of the most sensible innings played by him.

See, this is the attitude, which will never let us improve. We have been playing international cricket for long enough to play for wins. Now, if you think we should not try to score at 5.9 rpo in a 40 overs match, then we have no right to play ODIs or tests. It's a tough world brother. I am not saying the other 9 did not fail. At the same time, my first discards will be those players who play for losses.

BANFAN
June 9, 2008, 11:48 AM
Ok, I am ignorant. :-D

Now tell me why an 'in form' player will score a 50 at the strike rate of 60.21%, when the requirement was 97.1%? Did the coach ask him to do that? OK, even if the coach asks him to play an ODI like a 'to draw' test, why should he play this way? Why is he the captain of the team?

Is he capable of not followin the coach? Can any player of any team do that?

Look at the following probably you will understand why he had to take no risk and hold a end:

Fall of wickets1-35 (Shahriar Nafees, 8.3 ov), 2-49 (Tamim Iqbal, 12.2 ov), 3-62 (Raqibul Hasan, 15.6 ov), 4-67 (Alok Kapali, 18.2 ov), 5-98 (Mushfiqur Rahim, 26.4 ov), 6-118 (Mahmudullah, 29.3 ov), 7-118 (Mashrafe Mortaza, 29.6 ov), 8-121 (Dolar Mahmud, 30.6 ov)

He was the most sensible player yesterday. If there was another at the early stage, possibly they could take the team to a stage from where an allout attack could get a win. There was none to play with some sense with him.

Baundule
June 9, 2008, 11:49 AM
... to add further fuel to fire... Razzak scored 26 runs in 25 balls in the last few overs. Why is that? He was not following Siddon's law? Bowlers were too easy on him? The super plan only apply for Ash?...

Siddon should sack Razzak for disobeying him. :-D

Fazal
June 9, 2008, 11:51 AM
"I think it was possible to chase the score but we failed to have partnerships. Actually I had a plan to make a partnership with Tamim and then go for the kill but I have to change my mind after losing few quick wickets in the middle. Afridi bowled very well to dash our hopes," said Ashraful, most of whose innings brought something special for Bangladesh.


Even thought its true (what he is saying), these kind of comments publickly is very demoralizing and kind of 'moral busting' for a young team when its comming from the Captain. On paper there was supposed to be 6/7 batsman in the team. Now if The captain publickly says that there is only one batsman besides himself that he have trust and the rest are no good....then I have to say that Ash is a quick learner in one sense .... learning from Siddon very quickly how to demoralize his young team with his comments.

Even Ash has no respect for the selectors. Thats what happens when selectors randomly drop players ( Farhad, Dhiman) and as new players (Dollar, Alok) without any justification.

Pundit
June 9, 2008, 11:53 AM
Remember Baundale, you need to have the data to backup why you have a swagger (or ATTITUDE, as you call it).

Your Bangladesh team cannot even score at 4 runs per over, play out 50 overs, or score 200 runs.

AND YOU WANT THEM TO EXCEED 233 in 40 overs. Who are you exactly?

Let me see you walking down the hwy with an attitude that no car is going to knock you over. Maybe that's gonna really happen then.

Bangladesh has been tests for 7 years, but from Sunday's team, who has ?

Ashraful - 6 years
Mash - 5 years
Raj - 4 years

And the rest...averaging 1 year.

GTH

Baundule
June 9, 2008, 11:55 AM
Is he capable of not followin the coach? Can any player of any team do that?

Razzak did that. He scored a 25-ball 26. Razzak should be punished, ok?

Look at the following probably you will understand why he had to take no risk and hold a end:

Fall of wickets1-35 (Shahriar Nafees, 8.3 ov), 2-49 (Tamim Iqbal, 12.2 ov), 3-62 (Raqibul Hasan, 15.6 ov), 4-67 (Alok Kapali, 18.2 ov), 5-98 (Mushfiqur Rahim, 26.4 ov), 6-118 (Mahmudullah, 29.3 ov), 7-118 (Mashrafe Mortaza, 29.6 ov), 8-121 (Dolar Mahmud, 30.6 ov)

He was the most sensible player yesterday. If there was another at the early stage, possibly they could take the team to a stage from where an allout attack could get a win. There was none to play with some sense with him.

To score at 5.9 rpo in a 40 overs match does not need an all-out blind attack. Playing sensibly and taking the singles regularly just does that. Razzak and Tamim played better innings than Ashfool. But I don't want to emphasize much on that. I care much less about winning or losing. Everything I care about is the attitude, planning and executing the plan properly. If the opponent is a better team, in terms of players' quality, planning and execution, they can win. But it does not mean that I should just give up the thought of winning. Cricket is a game of uncertainity. Once the fielding side gets that the batsmen are playing for losses they will simply grind you. You have to try to fight back. YOu win or lose, I just want to see you tried.

Baundule
June 9, 2008, 12:01 PM
Remember Baundale, you need to have the data to backup why you have a swagger (or ATTITUDE, as you call it).

Your Bangladesh team cannot even score at 4 runs per over, play out 50 overs, or score 200 runs.

AND YOU WANT THEM TO EXCEED 233 in 40 overs. Who are you exactly?

Let me see you walking down the hwy with an attitude that no car is going to knock you over. Maybe that's gonna really happen then.

Bangladesh has been tests for 7 years, but from Sunday's team, who has ?

Ashraful - 6 years
Mash - 5 years
Raj - 4 years

And the rest...averaging 1 year.

GTH

Pundit bhai,

it's because of the attitude. We have the ability for sure. We can win against Aus chasing 250. That match was not a 'jhore bock'. Ashfool, HB, Aftab everyone just kept the basic right.

Changing the team so frequently indicates the problem with the management. Everytime we get a new set of players, we get a new coach, then we say we need 2 years to develop this 'young side'. After two years, the team changes, the coach changes and again we become 'a young side'. This simply does not work in professional world.

BANFAN
June 9, 2008, 12:02 PM
At the same time, my first discards will be those players who play for losses.

I agree bro on this, you have two choices:

1. Discrad the coach: because he is the one telling the boys that they can't win. According to him you even don't understand cricket at all, how can you think of winning against #6 team?

2. Discard all fifteen and take a new fifteen and didcard them before taking. Becoz only those will be allowed by the coach to play who will not concentrate on winning.


This is his approach of coaching if you want to give him more time then just relax and don't think of winning. Hope he will bring results with some more time than we expect.

Ishtylish cricketer
June 9, 2008, 12:04 PM
Even thought its true (what he is saying), these kind of comments publickly is very demoralizing and kind of 'moral busting' for a young team when its comming from the Captain. On paper there was supposed to be 6/7 batsman in the team. Now if The captain publickly says that there is only one batsman besides himself that he have trust and the rest are no good....then I have to say that Ash is a quick learner in one sense .... learning from Siddon very quickly how to demoralize his young team with his comments.

That's one of of seeing this. I think the message should be interpreted a bit more positively. If you know that Ash is the only player capable of making those big scores against any team then he's right to send that message to Ash. When the message is clear to Ash and he starts scoring regularly, others players will follow suit because he will have left a precedence to follow. It's not to demoralize (others) young players but to further emphasize his importance in our batting line up. It's very surprising though that a player in the national team doesn't realize this on his own. I am hoping it will work out for best. Based on our record we never win games where we have to score close to 6 runs an over and even if Ash played aggressively when he was, we still wouldn't have won the game because the players who could have won the game for us were in the pavillion. We lose a lot games trying to reinvent the wheel so losing another for the sake of self-improvement may not be such a bad thing if things work out for Ashraful.

Eshen
June 9, 2008, 12:06 PM
Faruque's comments -
[বাংলা]সাবেক প্রধান নির্বাচক ফারুক আহমেদ ক্ষতি দেখছেন অনেক। পাকিস্তান ম্যাচ দেখার পর এখন তাকে বলতে হচ্ছে, "ওই ম্যাচটা দেখার পর খুব বাজে অনুভূতি হয়েছে আমার। দলের মানসিকতায় ব্যাপক সমস্যা আছে বলে মনে হয়েছে। মনে হয়েছে আমরা সাত আট বছর আগে ফিরে গেছি। যখন অল্পতে অলআউট হয়ে যেন লজ্জায় না পড়ি, সেজন্য দলের লক্ষ্যই থাকত পুরো ওভার খেলে দেওয়া। এটা মোটেও ভালো লক্ষণ নয়।"

সেই সঙ্গে ফারুক এ-ও যোগ করতে ভুললেন না, "প্রশিক্ষক মনে করছেন আমাদের বড় জয়গুলো ঝড়ে বক মরার মতো। এজন্য শূন্য থেকে শুরুর চেষ্টা চলছে। আমি শূন্য থেকে শুরুর কোনো কারণ দেখি না। গত বিশ্বকাপে আমরা দ্বিতীয় রাউন্ডে গিয়েছিলাম। দুটো বড় ম্যাচ জিতেছিলাম। এরপর সবাই এমনকি আমাদের গুণতেও শুরু করেছিল। এখন আমরা আবার আগের অবস্থায় চলে যাচ্ছি। মাঝখানে কিছুদিন খারাপ সময় যাওয়ার পর এখন আত্মবিশ্বাস বাড়ানোর জন্য নেতিবাচকভাবে চেষ্টা করছি আমরা।"

তাহলে কি এখন এই বাংলাদেশকেই দেখতে হবে (http://www.bdnews24.com/bangla/details.php?id=28537&cid=26)![/বাংলা]

Baundule
June 9, 2008, 12:11 PM
I agree bro on this, you have two choices:

1. Discrad the coach: because he is the one telling the boys that they can't win. According to him you even don't understand cricket at all, how can you think of winning against #6 team?

2. Discard all fifteen and take a new fifteen and didcard them before taking. Becoz only those will be allowed by the coach to play who will not concentrate on winning.


This is his approach of coaching if you want to give him more time then just relax and don't think of winning. Hope he will bring results with some more time than we expect.

In professsional world, they'll have to fight for their places in the team. This is the only way how you'll get quality players in a team. Everyone has got to play for wins. The end result is usually of lower priority than the approach with which the situation is faced. Thirst for success is the first thing that one needs to be successful. This thirst followed by proper planning and execution of those plans in a dynamic way is the key to success. Winning is a habit, losing is also the same. SO, it's your choice which habit you'd go for.

Murad
June 9, 2008, 12:18 PM
TO do better, we need Syed Rasel in the bowling line up. NOt Rajib the Fastest crap ODI bowler.

Rasel used to give us the break through during the first powerplay in almost all the matches. But nowadays, we don't see much of that.

We used to give around 4.5-5 an over before and now we give over 6 an over.

we used to restrict the opponents better that Pak for less than 250 in most of the matches but now we can't even restrict the Ireland for less.

That's what happens when you drop your most consistent bowler.

Selectors listened to the coach who says Rasel has no pace and cannot be in the team. Rajib has pace and he should play.

They also dropped Rafique, who was doing better than most of the bowlers.

I think Ashraful and other players are having problem with both selector and the coach. Maybe Ash wants some players but Coach rejects it.

Just like in the last match they brought in another new player in place of Reza, who was bowling quite well in the last few games.

Selectors and the coach are to be blamed for everything at the moment.

al Furqaan
June 9, 2008, 12:20 PM
Salaam bro,
That is your perception. Mine is Aftab can only play the #4 type. He is trying to learn the #1. Ash can play #1 and #4. He has long way to go to learn #2 and #3 in ODIs. The one who can play all for is Mohammad Yusuf. If you want to compare then compare with the standard.

no doubt yousuf is a class act, but perhaps tendulkar is the ultimate batting paragon. i am sure tendu has had 1,2,3,4 gear ability as well. yousuf might have, but he seems to be a guy who stays in 2-3 gear 95% of the time.

certainly ash has 4 gear capability, sohel bhai will vouch for that. but i think aftab has that too. its a matter of management and situation and desire to dominate. we put aftab in at #3, and because of one opener getting out inside 5 overs 99% if the time, it makes aftab a de facto opener. he goes in with the license to exploit the power plays, and has a hard time settling down afterwards. he will learn with some more time. we don't have the domestic setup others do, where everything can be learned at domestic or A team level. the Test/ODI arena IS our classroom. and is the unfortunate thing.

but i am completely willing to pay that price for the ultimate goal. i had no real problems watching yesterday's match. in fact i was rooting for ash to not play stupid and to remain unbeaten. that innings didn't bother me.

BANFAN
June 9, 2008, 12:21 PM
Razzak did that. He scored a 25-ball 26. Razzak should be punished, ok?

No, Because Razzaq is a bowler, so he is expected to get a little flexibility in Batting.

To score at 5.9 rpo in a 40 overs match does not need an all-out blind attack. Playing sensibly and taking the singles regularly just does that. Razzak and Tamim played better innings than Ashfool. ....

In your logic, riyad did better that all our batters yesterday, 100 strike rate. 7 in 7 balls. if that's your yardstick.

When did we last win by chasing at 5.9 rpo against a test playing nation less Zim? But still it could be possible, but why blame your highest scorer for that?

BANFAN
June 9, 2008, 12:33 PM
Faruque's comments -
[বাংলা]সাবেক প্রধান নির্বাচক ফারুক আহমেদ ক্ষতি দেখছেন অনেক। পাকিস্তান ম্যাচ দেখার পর এখন তাকে বলতে হচ্ছে, "ওই ম্যাচটা দেখার পর খুব বাজে অনুভূতি হয়েছে আমার। দলের মানসিকতায় ব্যাপক সমস্যা আছে বলে মনে হয়েছে। মনে হয়েছে আমরা সাত আট বছর আগে ফিরে গেছি। যখন অল্পতে অলআউট হয়ে যেন লজ্জায় না পড়ি, সেজন্য দলের লক্ষ্যই থাকত পুরো ওভার খেলে দেওয়া। এটা মোটেও ভালো লক্ষণ নয়।"

সেই সঙ্গে ফারুক এ-ও যোগ করতে ভুললেন না, "প্রশিক্ষক মনে করছেন আমাদের বড় জয়গুলো ঝড়ে বক মরার মতো। এজন্য শূন্য থেকে শুরুর চেষ্টা চলছে। আমি শূন্য থেকে শুরুর কোনো কারণ দেখি না। গত বিশ্বকাপে আমরা দ্বিতীয় রাউন্ডে গিয়েছিলাম। দুটো বড় ম্যাচ জিতেছিলাম। এরপর সবাই এমনকি আমাদের গুণতেও শুরু করেছিল। এখন আমরা আবার আগের অবস্থায় চলে যাচ্ছি। মাঝখানে কিছুদিন খারাপ সময় যাওয়ার পর এখন আত্মবিশ্বাস বাড়ানোর জন্য নেতিবাচকভাবে চেষ্টা করছি আমরা।"

তাহলে কি এখন এই বাংলাদেশকেই দেখতে হবে (http://www.bdnews24.com/bangla/details.php?id=28537&cid=26)![/বাংলা]

We all have the same concern on JS, I still don't know why there is no clear explanation on the logics of such an approach by the coach or BCB?

djnaved
June 9, 2008, 12:47 PM
bring rasel back, drop shahdat
bring rofique back, still he considers the best spin bowler of Bangladesh
bring Javed Omar back, i know he plays slow, but he can make good pertnership with tamim

We want the team like 2007 world cup team, seniors and juniors mix. seniors encourage junior players. Juniors players get encourage and will perform...

Mahmood
June 9, 2008, 01:11 PM
Sorry to be a party pooper, but I watched the Ash innings, and not for a single moment it felt like he knew what he was doing. It seemed he was totally uncomfortable and was lucky to not get out somehow. I dont think this has anything to do with Ash changing or Siddon teaching something.

Siddons will take any positive right now to validate himself.

al Furqaan
June 9, 2008, 01:16 PM
Sorry to be a party pooper, but I watched the Ash innings, and not for a single moment it felt like he knew what he was doing. It seemed he was totally uncomfortable and was lucky to not get out somehow. I dont think this has anything to do with Ash changing or Siddon teaching something.

Siddons will take any positive right now to validate himself.

i watched the entire innings as well...

first 10 balls he faced, ash could have gotten out 5 times (he was playing across the line like a bolod supreme). then he nearly holed out to gul when he was on 15 aprox. then misbah grassed a ross taylor catch a few balls later.

but the last 2/3 of ash's innings, he played OK in the sense that the bowlers didn't trouble him, he didn't play any rash shots, and he scored 40 runs off those 60 balls roughly, mostly by taking singles and doubles.

the only thing was that he never had the intent of upping the ante and chasing, but by the time he got settled (he was waaay out of form), we were already 4-5 wickets down and chasing would just have made things worse.

al Furqaan
June 9, 2008, 01:18 PM
ash scored 13 off his first 30 balls, which means his last 43 off his last 63.

al Furqaan
June 9, 2008, 01:23 PM
in the match at cardiff, ash had 18 off his first 33...which is quite slow. but he built the innings into a run a ball hundred.

against south africa, he was 11 off his first 21, to finish with 87 from just 83.

he can start off in 1st or 2nd gear and bring it up in 3rd or even 4th.

Tigers_eye
June 9, 2008, 01:39 PM
in the match at cardiff, ash had 18 off his first 33...which is quite slow. but he built the innings into a run a ball hundred.

against south africa, he was 11 off his first 21, to finish with 87 from just 83.

he can start off in 1st or 2nd gear and bring it up in 3rd or even 4th.
So 5% of the time, makes you think he can? How about the other 95% of the time? He can't do it. Call me when that 5% gets to 20% at least. For Aftab #2 and #3 is 1%.

BANFAN
June 9, 2008, 01:43 PM
The result of the match was loud and clear much before the 30th over. So he didn't have the motivation either to increase his SR. Last 10 overs it was clear that Ash just wanted to bat it out without losing wickets.

Pundit
June 9, 2008, 02:03 PM
Pundit bhai,

it's because of the attitude. We have the ability for sure. We can win against Aus chasing 250. That match was not a 'jhore bock'. Ashfool, HB, Aftab everyone just kept the basic right.

Changing the team so frequently indicates the problem with the management. Everytime we get a new set of players, we get a new coach, then we say we need 2 years to develop this 'young side'. After two years, the team changes, the coach changes and again we become 'a young side'. This simply does not work in professional world.

Baundel bhai,

We have lost two very important senior players..one to form, and the other to age. Also, Nafees plays as if he never played before.

Also, when did we change a coach after 2 years? Whatmore was here for a far longer time. We've one before due to the magic of Ashraful, and unless you really are a magician, you cannot expect that to happen everyday.

Cash$$$
June 9, 2008, 02:25 PM
BD will not be able to attract any foreign coach after JS. They would have to settle for local coaches with pot belly and lazy attitude. Whatmore was amazing for BD.

Fazal
June 9, 2008, 02:31 PM
BD will not be able to attract any foreign coach after JS. They would have to settle for local coaches with pot belly and lazy attitude. Whatmore was amazing for BD.

but....but.... Dave had a pot belly or rather I would say beer belly.... and as a matter of fact he was pretty proud of it.... at times in summer he would be top-less to show off his beer belly.

Cash$$$
June 9, 2008, 02:40 PM
but....but.... Dave had a pot belly or rather I would say beer belly.... and as a matter of fact he was pretty proud of it.... at times in summer he would be top-less to show off his beer belly.

yes but the only diff between him and our potbelly uncles is that he's Australian. Remember Merv Hughes?

Russell2k7
June 9, 2008, 02:40 PM
ash scored 13 off his first 30 balls, which means his last 43 off his last 63.

Minus the maiden by Younis its 43 off 57. That over was funny to watch tho.

Fazal
June 9, 2008, 02:44 PM
yes but the only diff between him and our potbelly uncles is that he's Australian.

But what so good about Australian Bhuri and whats so bad about our local Bhuri ? They drink beer to make bhuri we eat rice to make bhuri... the net result is same... a nice well shaped bhuri.
Plus Dav is a Sri Lankan origin... and therefore I am not sure if his Bhuri is made up with rice ot beer.

Tigers_eye
June 9, 2008, 02:44 PM
yes but the only diff between him and our potbelly uncles is that he's Australian. Remember Merv Hughes?
lol, merv is not icon for pot belly in the Australian team. Boon is. In other teams would be Gatting, Ranatunga. But the one takes it all is the Bermuda guy!! He is the boss of the boss!! hands down #1. The wannabe Newzealand guy has nothing on him.

al Furqaan
June 9, 2008, 02:54 PM
Minus the maiden by Younis its 43 off 57. That over was funny to watch tho.

well, if we cut and paste too much, we can say that Javed Omar had a career ODI strike rate of 600 (just take the 3 sixers he hit).

al Furqaan
June 9, 2008, 02:58 PM
So 5% of the time, makes you think he can? How about the other 95% of the time? He can't do it. Call me when that 5% gets to 20% at least. For Aftab #2 and #3 is 1%.

name one player who scores 70+ all the time.

point is that if a player doesn't throw his wicket away, he can score some runs. he won't score 400* every match, but still...

even rahul dravid throws his wicket away 90% of the time. the difference is he waits till he's scored loads of runs first. our ash and aftab wait till they've scored 20 runs or faced 10 balls, whichever comes first.

if they change their attitudes, do you doubt they can score 50s and 100s with religious regularity? i don't.

Tigers_eye
June 9, 2008, 03:03 PM
name one player who scores 70+ all the time.

point is that if a player doesn't throw his wicket away, he can score some runs. he won't score 400* every match, but still...

even rahul dravid throws his wicket away 90% of the time. the difference is he waits till he's scored loads of runs first. our ash and aftab wait till they've scored 20 runs or faced 10 balls, whichever comes first.

if they change their attitudes, do you doubt they can score 50s and 100s with religious regularity? i don't.
lol, no one is asking Ash to score 70+ all the time. I said if he can play 20%+ of the time as building innings then I would recognise him as he can build innings. Till then in my book he can't. As I started this conversation with "that is your perception", I will state that this is my perception. You can't change it. Unless Ash starts to show few more times that he truely can rebuild the innings. Even Shakib and Rakibul has better chance at this moment to be in #2 and #3 category than Ash and definitely Aftab.

cricket_dorshok
June 9, 2008, 03:30 PM
hmm, here lies the problem. A batsmen playing for 7 years, 120+ ODI, having average similar of Lee and Vas, failing to score consistently and still is compared with Tendu, Jaya, Dravid!!!!!

djnaved
June 9, 2008, 03:35 PM
Jammie Siddons tar job tikea rakhar jonno notun notun statement banachhe:

Don't think about win, we are rank #9 team
We look for scoring 200+ runs
Shahdat is an effective bowler( only for test)
I have never seen Pilot's keeping. Who is he?


now:

Today I am happy how ash batted today. He played a good inning

in future:

Today I am happy how tamim batted today. scored 102 runs out of 188 balls. :-D

sonarbangla
June 9, 2008, 03:40 PM
Tamim
Nazim / Aftab
Ashraful
Alok
Sakib
Dhiman (slip filder)
Rahim (WK)
Razzak
Rafiq (need to call him back) / Riad
Mashrafee
Russel


This should be our best team combination.

Mav
June 9, 2008, 03:49 PM
A new Ash?

Just send him to school, a good one.

SS
June 9, 2008, 04:07 PM
A new Ash?

Just send him to school, a good one.
http://meenar71.tripod.com/about_me/image/cartoon/ronobi1.jpg

So sending school will solve his problem or developing some commonse sense of being good player for the team will help the problem....Only Tokai might know.

Mav
June 9, 2008, 04:15 PM
http://meenar71.tripod.com/about_me/image/cartoon/ronobi1.jpg

So sending school will solve his problem or developing some commonse sense of being good player for the team will help the problem....Only Tokai might know.

good example. He needs both actually.
Otherwise whatever natural talent and caliber he has, will fade away.

Sovik
June 9, 2008, 05:04 PM
I am waiting till the next match to see what kind of consistency Ash shows.

ditto

al Furqaan
June 9, 2008, 05:36 PM
lol, no one is asking Ash to score 70+ all the time. I said if he can play 20%+ of the time as building innings then I would recognise him as he can build innings. Till then in my book he can't. As I started this conversation with "that is your perception", I will state that this is my perception. You can't change it. Unless Ash starts to show few more times that he truely can rebuild the innings. Even Shakib and Rakibul has better chance at this moment to be in #2 and #3 category than Ash and definitely Aftab.

true, but actually before the last pakistan series, sakib didn't have any "high calibre" innings. the fact that he scored run a all 75 and 108 changed the perception for me (beamer bhai still disagrees). what shows is that sakib has the ability to play such an innings - if he didn't then how did he score 75 from 73 and 108 from 120?

of course one might suggest that the score keeper made a mistake, and that is only logical explanation.

in a similar vein, ashraful and aftab are capable of playing in all 4 gears. aftab hit 67 off 98 against india and threw his wicket away off the bowling of some indian scrub spinner. we've seen ash score 66 off 120 against SL, and 58 of 80+ against australia. which shows the have the capability, but only rarely the mindset. perhaps thats what you are saying also.

we know that khaled mahmud chacha was not capable of playing innings like the above mentioned.

as some examples a few lesser known innings:

Ashraful in ODIs

56 runs, 82 balls (vs NZ)
58 runs, 86 balls (vs AUS)
51 runs, 71 balls (vs SL)
64 runs, 67 balls (vs SL)

and some close misses:

36 runs, 53 balls (vs SL)
44 runs, 74 balls (vs WI)


Aftab in ODIs:

51 runs, 58 balls (vs ENG)
67 runs, 98 balls (vs IND)
54 runs, 78 balls (vs NZ)

close misses:

30 runs, 49 balls (vs IND)
30 runs, 45 balls (vs AUS)
35 runs, 43 balls (vs RSA)
40 runs, 41 balls (vs IND)
47 runs, 85 balls (vs SL)
42 runs, 48 balls (vs PAK)

Ishtylish cricketer
June 9, 2008, 06:15 PM
Agree with Al-Faruqaan. Ash is capable of playing these innings. However, I think given what Alok showed with the ball he deserves to be in the team. If a batsman gets out in 3 balls doesn't mean they are incompetant. You have to judge batsmen when they are set or have played a significant numbers of balls. I hope Kapali plays the whole series.

tiger_club
June 9, 2008, 06:40 PM
BD disappointed again. I don’t understand their tactics or what Coach is trying to achieve from this. We can’t even get close to our opponents. This is becoming serious issue, we’re keep getting hammered in our home ground. Also I don’t think the team selection was right, Syed Russel has very good bowling average, he should be included in the national team no matter what. Why are we keep using these hopeless speedos which seems useless… if we can't get the run rate down below 5 there is no point chasing it. Everything seems wrong, why are we keep changing our players? Farhad Reza should be included as well.. I seriously don't understand this.. something is definately wrong, I don't blame the players, my first blame goes to selectors then BCB and the coach. We're not playing cricket, we're playing mind games here. We’ll loose again and again and again. Are we really tigers, don't think it suits us anymore.

Eshen
June 9, 2008, 06:47 PM
From my point of view, what Siddons is trying to do is to underestimate what we have achieved during Whatmore era, and overestimate every little achievement during his own era.

For the sake of Bangladesh cricket, I sincerely hope he will be able to help our cricketers to improve, but I have very much lost the trust that he will be able to do that.

Gowza
June 9, 2008, 07:24 PM
he is trying to build for the future, he's just doing a half-assed job of doing it. whether he's aware of that i'm not sure but he needs to realise his potential career opportunities as head coach of international cricket teams is on the line, if he's seen as not working hard with the BD team and not putting in the effort e.g. not doing research or constantly taking holidays then he may not get many offers when his contract is up with the BD national team.

Foozy
June 9, 2008, 08:35 PM
Agree with Al-Faruqaan. Ash is capable of playing these innings. However, I think given what Alok showed with the ball he deserves to be in the team. If a batsman gets out in 3 balls doesn't mean they are incompetant. You have to judge batsmen when they are set or have played a significant numbers of balls. I hope Kapali plays the whole series.

Totally agree with you bro.

al Furqaan
June 9, 2008, 10:00 PM
From my point of view, what Siddons is trying to do is to underestimate what we have achieved during Whatmore era, and overestimate every little achievement during his own era.

For the sake of Bangladesh cricket, I sincerely hope he will be able to help our cricketers to improve, but I have very much lost the trust that he will be able to do that.

i also feel extremely 50-50 about siddons, and if he takes vacation after vaction, BCB should start making deductions from his pay check. fine the batsmen for not doing their job, fine siddons also for not doing his. just cuz he's white shouldn't ensure a free ticket.

at the same time, if siddons can make ashraful a person who can average 30-35 with bat at a decent strike rate, that in and of itself is quite an achievement.

another 6 months with asia cup, aussie tour, SA, NZ, SL series...and we'll be able to tell if siddons should really be fired or not.

as of now, there are some good signs, and some terrible ones.

BANFAN
June 10, 2008, 01:04 AM
I hope Kapali plays the whole series.

I also hope so, because if we have to even permanently dump him, we need to give him enough chances to confirm his abilities. I wish he even plays the Asia cup matches, irrespective of his performance in these matches.

If a batsman gets out in 3 balls doesn't mean they are incompetant. You have to judge batsmen when they are set or have played a significant numbers of balls.

:lol::lol:

How do you judge/rate a batsman who never gets set or never play a significant number of balls? He is unjudgable ? means CRAP !! Right? But offcourse it has to be seen over some time. Just one match is not enough to make a judgement. So Alok should get more chances so that if he has some ability he can show it and if he is proven CRAP he is permanently out.

abu2abu
June 10, 2008, 03:37 AM
Agree with Al-Faruqaan. Ash is capable of playing these innings. However, I think given what Alok showed with the ball he deserves to be in the team. If a batsman gets out in 3 balls doesn't mean they are incompetant. You have to judge batsmen when they are set or have played a significant numbers of balls. I hope Kapali plays the whole series.

Amen to that! It's only fair to give Kapali a decent run in the side.

In the World T20 he only palyed in on or two games and ash seemed reluctant to let him bowl (prefering his own dubbious legspin to that of kapali). Playing him in the whole series should help us see how far he's come. However, as I understand it the "whole series" is only one further match for BD! That's a shame.

We shouldn't forget though that (like afridi) Kapali is 1st and foremost a bowler. he can be handy with the bat, but I think it's wrong to play him so far up the order. Mushfique should bat ahead of him....

abu2abu
June 10, 2008, 03:48 AM
hmm, here lies the problem. A batsmen playing for 7 years, 120+ ODI, having average similar of Lee and Vas, failing to score consistently and still is compared with Tendu, Jaya, Dravid!!!!!

This is sooo true...

Haider
June 10, 2008, 07:58 AM
JO was not talented but he was much consitent than Ash. And One JO type innings from Ash doesn't suddenly make Ash more consistent. We have to wait adn see how consistent Ash turn out in this new approach. Just don't forget that Ash wash shaky at the begining and got one life.

Plus when JO was giving us long innings with a SR 60, people was ripping him off. Now some of the same people are praising Ash as if he have done something completely different than what JO did some of his long innings.

Unless Ash knows how to build and pace the innings, he will be either Afridi to Javed .... not like Inzy or world class batsmans who starts slowly but when they are set they exploit the opportunity and accelerate the RR.

Dude .. JO's skill is nothing close to Ash's. I am not saying Ash is Micheal jordan of Cricket.. but at times he made it seem like he couldve been if he concentrated in his innnings... (maybe I went too far) U r right.. Ash is never consistent... Ash is a lot like Shahid Afridi .. when hot.. he lights up the stadium when not.. guy plays the dumbest arial shots and gets out. But My point was not that Ash is bak.. blah blah.. I was praising Jammie Siddon rather than kissin Ash's a$$. And I also said.. we need to wait till the next couple of games and seee.. if ash keeps playing like the way he did the first game. and then we will be 100% sure whats the real story here.

And by the way ..for all the fans that were mad cuz ash played a JO style innings... and didn't persure to win the game.. I laugh in their face cuz.. Dude weren't we just white washed by this same team just a few days back ... how u expect to win a game all of a sudden?? did we improve our skills over night??? Ash did the right thing ..by playing slow and building his innings.. he needs to get confident and hope he does the same for the next 10 games atleast. I do not care for a win .. cuz i know thats impossible at this stage... unless a miracle or the other team just throws away their game. End of story.. Good bye

Haider
June 10, 2008, 08:01 AM
By the way.. why wasn't Sri Lanka Invited in any of these 2 Asia Series>>???

Tigers_eye
June 10, 2008, 08:10 AM
By the way.. why wasn't Sri Lanka Invited in any of these 2 Asia Series>>???
SL is not good enough. They are the new minnows of Asia. With Sanath gone they having trouble in getting their line up straight. Their batsmen-bowler combination is severly dented now.

jk. ;)

Beamer
June 10, 2008, 09:59 AM
JS in my mind is doing the right thing! Listen me out before jumping on me and please put aside the sporadic victories from Whatmore era for a second. Is Ash can learn to play the game they way it should be played ( a big if ), we will better off in the long run, and specially in test matches. There has been a noticable change in the way some of our core batsmen are approaching the game, mainly Tamim, Ash, Aftab and Sakib, the four major components of our batting line up in both versions of the game. All of a sudden a bunch of young adults, or you may call them juvenile delinquents if you wish, are being shown the ropes from the vantage point of a kintergarden. Its unfortunate but thats the way it has to be. We have never learned the basics of ABCD, yet we were competing with teams decorated with a few Pulitzer winners! Once in a while our delinquents swung around wildly and managed to put together tough words in the game of scrabble they were playing. But, you can't attain consistency that way unless you have the knowledge to back you up. To our good fortune, the schooling is being done to players who shouldn't be playing top flight cricket at this age anyway. So, not all is lost. Even if it takes five years, the core won't be any older than 27, and they would have a good eight-ten years of service ahead of them. Don't worry about results right now. If it comes earlier, good for them and us. If we fail, thats the hand that has been dealt to us and we must re start the process again, but only this time we must start the schooling when it should be done, during the age groups, U-19's, Academy teams, A-teams and on towards the major team.

Baundule
June 10, 2008, 10:13 AM
from now on, we should learn how to play ODIs, while playing a 20-20
from now on, we should learn how to play tests, while playing an ODI

from now on, we should teach the cricket basic to a 120+ games experienced player, while he is captaining the team
from now on, we should allocate 5 years to each new coach to build the team, while we are playing competitive cricket

still we will maintain our prestigious status
still we will get money from the ICC

we are the luckiest cricket nation for sure.

al Furqaan
June 10, 2008, 10:24 AM
JS in my mind is doing the right thing! Listen me out before jumping on me and please put aside the sporadic victories from Whatmore era for a second. Is Ash can learn to play the game they way it should be played ( a big if ), we will better off in the long run, and specially in test matches. There has been a noticable change in the way some of our core batsmen are approaching the game, mainly Tamim, Ash, Aftab and Sakib, the four major components of our batting line up in both versions of the game. All of a sudden a bunch of young adults, or you may call them juvenile delinquents if you wish, are being shown the ropes from the vantage point of a kintergarden. Its unfortunate but thats the way it has to be. We have never learned the basics of ABCD, yet we were competing with teams decorated with a few Pulitzer winners! Once in a while our delinquents swung around wildly and managed to put together tough words in the game of scrabble they were playing. But, you can't attain consistency that way unless you have the knowledge to back you up. To our good fortune, the schooling is being done to players who shouldn't be playing top flight cricket at this age anyway. So, not all is lost. Even if it takes five years, the core won't be any older than 27, and they would have a good eight-ten years of service ahead of them. Don't worry about results right now. If it comes earlier, good for them and us. If we fail, thats the hand that has been dealt to us and we must re start the process again, but only this time we must start the schooling when it should be done, during the age groups, U-19's, Academy teams, A-teams and on towards the major team.

good thoughts.

i sincerely hope that ash can continue to check his attacking instinct except in the slog overs, that aftab finds his pre kallis form, and that sakib can continue what he started in pakistan a couple months ago. right now tamim looks most promising and i pray he continues to develop.

Beamer
June 10, 2008, 10:47 AM
Asad

Ash has to do a better job than what he offered last game. Playing sensibly doesn't mean shelving your attacking instincts. What it means that he must do away ( aftab as well ) with those foolish aerial low percentage shots less and less. If its there, he however should take it, but not manufacture it. He is coming at no.3 now, with the possibility of a bulk of PP overs in front of him. If he is patient enough, bowlers will give away boundary balls, and he should take those even if that means lofting over the in field, unless a midwkt is posted deep for his pulls, and in that case, decline the offer. The sooner we ditch the Napoleonic hero syndrome, the better we will in the long run. This approach should help us in test arena. Ash is the central focus of our batting however unfortunate it may seem. Longer he stays at the pitch, the better the outlook of the overall team score.

I think the SN saga is coming to an end. He is what he is. A big time minnow basher. I will invest in Zunaid for the future and give him an extended run. He is too good a player to misfire. SN has to score runs, specially in ODI's to remain in the team. He is a bad fielder and doesn't bowl. Too one dimensional. If the second opener is not found in time ( Zunaid is there for tests and should also play in ODI's ), I would promote Mushfiq to partner with Tamim. He won't score less than SN and has the added bonus of being a multi skilled player. We can take an extra batsman or a bowler in that case. SN should play in tests though until he takes himself out of that equation. Rokibul should only play tests for now.

al Furqaan
June 10, 2008, 10:52 AM
agreed. but the management should first try SN in the ODI middle order as many have suggested. he certainly isnt' opening material.

in the test format, he seems much more at home, though he still gets out after getting set.

anyone know if we are hosting NZ this year??? we were supposed to.

Ajfar
June 10, 2008, 11:32 AM
anyone know if we are hosting NZ this year??? we were supposed to.

nop...asia cup...australia n south africa...that's it for this year i think..

BANFAN
June 10, 2008, 12:04 PM
JS in my mind is doing the right thing! Listen me out before jumping on me and please put aside the sporadic victories from Whatmore era for a second. Is Ash can learn to play the game they way it should be played ( a big if ), we will better off in the long run, and specially in test matches. There has been a noticable change in the way some of our core batsmen are approaching the game, mainly Tamim, Ash, Aftab and Sakib, the four major components of our batting line up in both versions of the game. All of a sudden a bunch of young adults, or you may call them juvenile delinquents if you wish, are being shown the ropes from the vantage point of a kintergarden. Its unfortunate but thats the way it has to be. We have never learned the basics of ABCD, yet we were competing with teams decorated with a few Pulitzer winners! Once in a while our delinquents swung around wildly and managed to put together tough words in the game of scrabble they were playing. But, you can't attain consistency that way unless you have the knowledge to back you up. To our good fortune, the schooling is being done to players who shouldn't be playing top flight cricket at this age anyway. So, not all is lost. Even if it takes five years, the core won't be any older than 27, and they would have a good eight-ten years of service ahead of them. Don't worry about results right now. If it comes earlier, good for them and us. If we fail, thats the hand that has been dealt to us and we must re start the process again, but only this time we must start the schooling when it should be done, during the age groups, U-19's, Academy teams, A-teams and on towards the major team.

You are not the only one to think like this and there are many who share the same thoughts as of your post. There is no doubt if you give 5 years time to JS the team will change, will improve. Infact any coach will make that improvement. Point is that can we afford to leave the present alltogether?

1. Will ICC and other test playing countries accept such a development squad for 5 years?

2. can we answer for all the losses that we are going through for 5 years?

3. In the process of learning better cricket aren't we forgetting to win? It's not only cricket, something more is needed to win.

4. Can anyone gurantee that after five years improvement will be so big that we will start playing suddenly like world beaters?

There are many such questions, for which I think he could be with the U19/Academy teams to produce players for the future and meanwhile we need someone who can take the WM time successes a little ahead. We can't afford to leave the present.

Gowza
June 10, 2008, 05:18 PM
well it depends on your definition of world beaters, for me that means teams like the invincibles, the WI of the 80s the late steve waugh era/early ponting era, basically teams that are thought of as almost impossible to beat.

it will probably take along time for BD to have a team like that. in regards to goals think of it as building a career. you don't go straight from being a school kid to being CEO of a company, being CEO might be your long term goal but there are a lot of other little goals like finishing high school, going to uni etc that you need to achieve before you can achieve the goal of being CEO. little goals keep you on track for the bigger goals.

Gowza
June 10, 2008, 05:45 PM
You are not the only one to think like this and there are many who share the same thoughts as of your post. There is no doubt if you give 5 years time to JS the team will change, will improve. Infact any coach will make that improvement. Point is that can we afford to leave the present alltogether?

1. Will ICC and other test playing countries accept such a development squad for 5 years?

2. can we answer for all the losses that we are going through for 5 years?

3. In the process of learning better cricket aren't we forgetting to win? It's not only cricket, something more is needed to win.

4. Can anyone gurantee that after five years improvement will be so big that we will start playing suddenly like world beaters?

There are many such questions, for which I think he could be with the U19/Academy teams to produce players for the future and meanwhile we need someone who can take the WM time successes a little ahead. We can't afford to leave the present.

1. hopefully if the team shows improvement by the end of siddons 2 years the ICC will notice and continue to support BD.
2. in the long term yes, but those 5 years have to be used right.
3. this is up to personal opinion, i think working on individuals and the team can be done together but it's difficult, it's easier to just work on the individuals and when they're up to scratch work on the team. once these 2 things are improved then it becomes about implementing those improvements which means trying to get the wins. but i think atm there are more important things to worry about than winning e.g. you can't win if you don't have the tools, the BD players don't have all the tools yet. winning would help obviously, and they should still try and win but if they don't they shouldn't worry too much for the moment.
4. already answered in my other post.

Pundit
June 10, 2008, 07:50 PM
1. Whatmore ain't coming back. There is no guarantee that the next person will be better, knowing that 90% of the problem lies with BD itself.

2. We have been losing for 5 years, and we will continue to lose for 5 more. As long as there are perceptible improvements, which align together to bring victories, we are on the right track.

3. First we learn how to play, and then we win. I thought everything in life was like that.

4. I personally don't want improvements that are really big - being realistic.

5. Nada

6. Nada

7. Nada

8. Nada

9. Nada

10. Nada

thebest
June 11, 2008, 10:42 AM
Siddons is building towards a bigger plan. That plan is to make us champion. But we would be champion of ICC associates. The way, we are playing if somebody propose a motion to stripe Bangladesh of its test status, I would not be surprised if it was pass. because it would open up some free space for Aus- India, Aus-SA, Ind- Pak or another round of IPL. It would be supported by fans of all other countries and half of die hard BD supporter would accept it and the other half support it. BCB and players would do nothing. When you are led by a looser in field you become a looser. At the moment our cricket is run by a looser. When I am talking about looser I am not talk about those who loose (because of their lack of technical ability to win like present Zimbo, Kenya) but about those who lose before the match start (Like present BD or most of the EPL clubs against big four).

zainab
June 11, 2008, 10:49 AM
he is trying to build for the future, he's just doing a half-assed job of doing it. whether he's aware of that i'm not sure but he needs to realise his potential career opportunities as head coach of international cricket teams is on the line, if he's seen as not working hard with the BD team and not putting in the effort e.g. not doing research or constantly taking holidays then he may not get many offers when his contract is up with the BD national team.


agree with you 100%. He really has not spent much time with this team, always on holidays. IMO, He should have longer training camps with them. practice is what it is all about.
Hope he can spend at least one week with them before the Asia cup in pakistan, because at the moment, BD is completely out of this KITPLY CUP.iT IS A CONTEST BETWEEN INDIA AND PAKISTAN. BD is just going going through the motions of trying to play cricket, and making a poor job of it, thanks to JS.

abu2abu
June 11, 2008, 11:00 AM
Let's take this "bigger picture" theory. if siddons is working towards a bigger picture, that's fine, we don't expect to win every match but we do expect to see discernable improvements. So far we've seen:

• Zunaed and Tamim scorong well in tests (though the former went on to lose his ODI form).
• Shakib scoring a hundred in a hopelessly one-sided affair against Pakistan.
• Rajib almost single-handedly handing us victory against south africa.
• And now Ash curbing his attacking instincts to score a sedate 50 in a losing cause.
• A whitewash against Ireland at home.
(There may be more, I can't remember off the top of my head..)

All of these things are encouraging, but (understandably) not everyone is happy with the pace of change. After all these achievements don't take away from the pain of losing matches and being slated as minnows and under-achievers by our critics.

I wish siddons the best of luck and it's too early to say what effect he will have on BD cricket. However, if he fails everyone will say he was out of his depth and should never have been made coach in the first place.

As I've said before I feel the ODI series in Oz (August) and the South Africa series in December will be an appropriate time in which to assess how far we've come.

al Furqaan
June 11, 2008, 01:42 PM
Let's take this "bigger picture" theory. if siddons is working towards a bigger picture, that's fine, we don't expect to win every match but we do expect to see discernable improvements. So far we've seen:

• Zunaed and Tamim scorong well in tests (though the former went on to lose his ODI form).
• Shakib scoring a hundred in a hopelessly one-sided affair against Pakistan.
• Rajib almost single-handedly handing us victory against south africa.
• And now Ash curbing his attacking instincts to score a sedate 50 in a losing cause.
• A whitewash against Ireland at home.
(There may be more, I can't remember off the top of my head..)

All of these things are encouraging, but (understandably) not everyone is happy with the pace of change. After all these achievements don't take away from the pain of losing matches and being slated as minnows and under-achievers by our critics.

I wish siddons the best of luck and it's too early to say what effect he will have on BD cricket. However, if he fails everyone will say he was out of his depth and should never have been made coach in the first place.

As I've said before I feel the ODI series in Oz (August) and the South Africa series in December will be an appropriate time in which to assess how far we've come.

good post. agree to all points.

i am actually not worried by the slowness of the development. and i've always known that there will be ups and downs. i just didn't expect such a huge drop. but i am more than willing to keep the faith.

tamim's consistency, especially against the Great 8, is impressive. its most impressive because it is occuring well beyond his rookie season. guys like SN, rajin all sparkled but tamim contines to sparkle and sparkle far brighter.

Ishtylish cricketer
June 11, 2008, 05:07 PM
How do you judge/rate a batsman who never gets set or never play a significant number of balls? He is unjudgable ? means CRAP !! Right? But offcourse it has to be seen over some time. Just one match is not enough to make a judgement. So Alok should get more chances so that if he has some ability he can show it and if he is proven CRAP he is permanently out.

We have so many Tendulkars and Laras in our country that it's shameful and embarrasing to see guys like Ash, Aftab and Alok getting myriad of chances. BANFAN, I hope you have not forgotten that Alok is a leg spinner first and foremost and a batsman second, at the international level. Those who watched the Bd game will agree with the following statement: Alok actually turned the ball and created doubts in batsman's mind unlike any of our other spinners, however like ALL our bowlers he bowled one or two bad balls an over. I definitely cannot and will not evev attempt to justify his batting failure. His inability to pick up cues for the faster leg break is no way excuseable given that he's a leg spinner himself. Alok is aware of his own situation and told Arun Lal during last match's lunch interview, that he's on his last leg as far as chances are concerned. The current Bd team's philosophy seems to be winning or losing doesn't matter as much as self-improvement. This mantra may be what out of form players like Alok need. If this is applicable to all then dare I say Alok has the utmost luxuary to bat selfishly like Ashraful and accumulate a score to get himself in contention for a spot in the next series. Unfortunately, for Alok no matter what he does in the next match once Aftab recovers, he will have to compete with Riyad for a spot. Aloukik kopal? I beg to differ.

ialbd
June 11, 2008, 05:46 PM
sigh.... one more person working for a better 'Bangladesh'....

bujhee kom
June 11, 2008, 09:44 PM
i wish coach siddons and our team all the best!
off the topic, really looking forward to the a-team's tour of england! yey!!!!!

BANFAN
June 12, 2008, 01:53 AM
BANFAN, I hope you have not forgotten that Alok is a leg spinner first and foremost and a batsman second, at the international level.

He came to the team as an allrounder. Now you have given up on his batting and claim him to be a Bowler primarily. Can you tell me which is another specialist bowler in our side in the team with such bowling figures?

------Mat Inns Balls Runs Wkts BBI BBM Ave Econ SR 4w 5w 10
Tests 17 19 - 1103 -709 - 6 - 3/3- 3/33 -118.16 3.85 183.8 0 0 0
ODIs 56 39 - 1172 -988 -18 - 3/49- 3/49- 54.88 5.05 65.1 0 0 0

Show me one BD regular bowler who has a worse bowling figures than Alok. How can he even compete with Rajin/Aftab in Bowling?

Unfortunately, for Alok no matter what he does in the next match once Aftab recovers he will have to compete with Riyad for a spot. Aloukik kopal? I beg to differ.

You still differ? Hope Not.

cricman
June 12, 2008, 02:17 PM
This new Ash is scoring runs he was a bit lucky, albeit slowly it seems that no can stay in the crease for to long so this new JO .... I mean Ash is beneficial. You could see the partnership really take into fruition before he was dismissed, there was a period where they took 9 Straight Singles, I was like whoa whens the last time you saw that in BD cricket

<table bgcolor="#eeeeee" border="0" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="0" width="446"><tbody><tr valign="top"><td align="right" width="30">18.1</td> <td width="100%">IK Pathan to Mohammad Ashraful, 1 run, flicked to square leg </td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td align="right" width="30">18.2</td> <td width="100%">IK Pathan to Raqibul Hasan, 1 run, slower ball pitched on middle, Raqibul waited on it and cut it to point despite being cramped for room </td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td align="right" width="30">18.3</td> <td width="100%">IK Pathan to Mohammad Ashraful, 1 run, pitched outside off and moving awat, Raqibul drives it through extra cover with ease </td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td align="right" width="30">18.4</td> <td width="100%">IK Pathan to Raqibul Hasan, no run, pitched short but moves in to the batsman who turns it to leg side </td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td align="right" width="30">18.5</td> <td width="100%">IK Pathan to Raqibul Hasan, 1 run, slightly over-pitched now, round the wicket delivery, played behind point </td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td align="right" width="30">18.6</td> <td width="100%">IK Pathan to Mohammad Ashraful, no run, short of a length outside off, driven to cover </td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#cccccc" valign="top"> <td colspan="2"> End of over 19 (4 runs) - Bangladesh 63/2 (RR: 3.31)
<table bgcolor="#cccccc" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr> <td>Mohammad Ashraful</td> <td> </td> <td>24* (52b 2x4)</td> <td> </td> <td>IK Pathan</td> <td> </td> <td>5-0-28-0</td> </tr> <tr> <td>Raqibul Hasan</td> <td> </td> <td>22* (39b 2x4)</td> <td> </td> <td>PP Chawla</td> <td> </td> <td>1-0-2-0</td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td align="right" width="30">19.1</td> <td width="100%">Chawla to Raqibul Hasan, 3 runs, Raqibul plays it on the full to kill the turn and sweeps to fine leg where Irfan makes a fine save </td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td align="right" width="30">19.2</td> <td width="100%">Chawla to Mohammad Ashraful, no run, Ashraful tries to sweep as well and gets hit on the pad </td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td align="right" width="30">19.3</td> <td width="100%">Chawla to Mohammad Ashraful, no run, googly. pitched outside off and comes in to Ashrful who is pushed towards leg on the crease in trying to drive the ball to the off </td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td align="right" width="30">19.4</td> <td width="100%">Chawla to Mohammad Ashraful, 1 run, cut to point for single </td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td align="right" width="30">19.5</td> <td width="100%">Chawla to Raqibul Hasan, no run, defended off the front foot to leg side </td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td align="right" width="30">19.6</td> <td width="100%">Chawla to Raqibul Hasan, 1 run, driven to sweeper cover </td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td colspan="2">back to Sriram Veera</td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#cccccc" valign="top"> <td colspan="2"> End of over 20 (5 runs) - Bangladesh 68/2 (RR: 3.40)
<table bgcolor="#cccccc" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr> <td>Raqibul Hasan</td> <td> </td> <td>26* (42b 2x4)</td> <td> </td> <td>PP Chawla</td> <td> </td> <td>2-0-7-0</td> </tr> <tr> <td>Mohammad Ashraful</td> <td> </td> <td>25* (55b 2x4)</td> <td> </td> <td>IK Pathan</td> <td> </td> <td>5-0-28-0</td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td colspan="2">Thanks Nishi</td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td align="right" width="30">20.1</td> <td width="100%">Yuvraj Singh to Raqibul Hasan, 1 run, floated on the middle and leg, turned past square leg </td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td align="right" width="30">20.2</td> <td width="100%">Yuvraj Singh to Mohammad Ashraful, 1 run, fuller, on driven for a single </td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td align="right" width="30">20.3</td> <td width="100%">Yuvraj Singh to Raqibul Hasan, 1 run, leans forward to drive to long-on </td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td align="right" width="30">20.4</td> <td width="100%">Yuvraj Singh to Mohammad Ashraful, 1 run, outside off stump, punched through cover point </td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td colspan="2">Russell: "To Sajib: Bangladesh has played enough natural game over the years!!! And what have they achieved? Let Siddons do his job... I believe we will see a strong team in near future."</td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td align="right" width="30">20.5</td> <td width="100%">Yuvraj Singh to Raqibul Hasan, 1 run, turned to square leg for yet another single </td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td align="right" width="30">20.6</td> <td width="100%">Yuvraj Singh to Mohammad Ashraful, 1 run, waits for the ball to come to him before pushing it to cover point for a single. </td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#cccccc" valign="top"> <td colspan="2"> End of over 21 (6 runs) - Bangladesh 74/2 (RR: 3.52)
<table bgcolor="#cccccc" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr> <td>Mohammad Ashraful</td> <td> </td> <td>28* (58b 2x4)</td> <td> </td> <td>Yuvraj Singh</td> <td> </td> <td>1-0-6-0</td> </tr> <tr> <td>Raqibul Hasan</td> <td> </td> <td>29* (45b 2x4)</td> <td> </td> <td>PP Chawla</td> <td> </td> <td>2-0-7-0</td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td align="right" width="30">21.1</td> <td width="100%">Chawla to Mohammad Ashraful, 1 run, leans forward to drive to covers </td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td align="right" width="30">21.2</td> <td width="100%">Chawla to Raqibul Hasan, 1 run, flighted one on the off and middle, worked to midwicket region </td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td align="right" width="30">21.3</td> <td width="100%">Chawla to Mohammad Ashraful, no run, tossed up full outside off, mistimes a drive to mid-off </td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td align="right" width="30">21.4</td> <td width="100%">Chawla to Mohammad Ashraful, 1 run, leans across, pushed to cover point for a quick single </td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td align="right" width="30">21.5</td> <td width="100%">Chawla to Raqibul Hasan, no run, short delivery outside off stump, cut to covers </td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td align="right" width="30">21.6</td> <td width="100%">Chawla to Raqibul Hasan, 1 run, flighted one outside off, turns slightly, driven towards mid-off </td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#cccccc" valign="top"> <td colspan="2"> End of over 22 (4 runs) - Bangladesh 78/2 (RR: 3.54)
<table bgcolor="#cccccc" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr> <td>Raqibul Hasan</td> <td> </td> <td>31* (48b 2x4)</td> <td> </td> <td>PP Chawla</td> <td> </td> <td>3-0-11-0</td> </tr> <tr> <td>Mohammad Ashraful</td> <td> </td> <td>30* (61b 2x4)</td> <td> </td> <td>Yuvraj Singh</td> <td> </td> <td>1-0-6-0</td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td align="right" width="30">22.1</td> <td width="100%">Yuvraj Singh to Raqibul Hasan, no run, coming in with the arm on the middle stump line, jabbed off the inside edge to the on side </td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td align="right" width="30">22.2</td> <td width="100%">Yuvraj Singh to Raqibul Hasan, 2 runs, goes down on his knee to paddle a delivery on the middle and off to fine leg </td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td align="right" width="30">22.3</td> <td width="100%">Yuvraj Singh to Raqibul Hasan, 1 run, quicker, on the middle and leg, dabbed past square leg for a single </td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td align="right" width="30">22.4</td> <td width="100%">Yuvraj Singh to Mohammad Ashraful, 1 run, slower, shorter, outside off, cut to deep point </td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td align="right" width="30">22.5</td> <td width="100%">Yuvraj Singh to Raqibul Hasan, no run, fuller, bit more air, driven back to Yuvi </td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td align="right" width="30">22.6</td> <td width="100%">Yuvraj Singh to Raqibul Hasan, no run, on the middle, goes on straight, pushed to off side and there is no chance of a single </td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#cccccc" valign="top"> <td colspan="2"> End of over 23 (4 runs) - Bangladesh 82/2 (RR: 3.56)
<table bgcolor="#cccccc" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr> <td>Raqibul Hasan</td> <td> </td> <td>34* (53b 2x4)</td> <td> </td> <td>Yuvraj Singh</td> <td> </td> <td>2-0-10-0</td> </tr> <tr> <td>Mohammad Ashraful</td> <td> </td> <td>31* (62b 2x4)</td> <td> </td> <td>PP Chawla</td> <td> </td> <td>3-0-11-0</td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td align="right" width="30">23.1</td> <td width="100%">Chawla to Mohammad Ashraful, 2 runs, tossed up outside off, driven inside-out over extra cover for couple of runs. </td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td align="right" width="30">23.2</td> <td width="100%">Chawla to Mohammad Ashraful, 1 run, on the middle and off, turning in, nudged to square leg </td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td align="right" width="30">23.3</td> <td width="100%">Chawla to Raqibul Hasan, no run, flighted really full on the middle, driven to extra cover </td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td align="right" width="30">23.4</td> <td width="100%">Chawla to Raqibul Hasan, 2 runs, width offered outside off stump and crashed to right of sweeper cover where Yusuf Pathan makes a fine diving stop </td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td align="right" width="30">23.5</td> <td width="100%">Chawla to Raqibul Hasan, no run, lands on a length outside off and spins away, Raqibul is unsure, has a poke and is beaten </td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td align="right" width="30">23.6</td> <td width="100%">Chawla to Raqibul Hasan, 1 run, fuller, on the middle and leg, driven to long-on for a single </td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#cccccc" valign="top"> <td colspan="2"> End of over 24 (6 runs) - Bangladesh 88/2 (RR: 3.66)
<table bgcolor="#cccccc" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr> <td>Raqibul Hasan</td> <td> </td> <td>37* (57b 2x4)</td> <td> </td> <td>PP Chawla</td> <td> </td> <td>4-0-17-0</td> </tr> <tr> <td>Mohammad Ashraful</td> <td> </td> <td>34* (64b 2x4)</td> <td> </td> <td>Yuvraj Singh</td> <td> </td> <td>2-0-10-0</td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td colspan="2">Yusuf Pathan, the offspinner, replaces Yuvraj</td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td align="right" width="30">24.1</td> <td width="100%">YK Pathan to Raqibul Hasan, 1 run, turning in to middle and off, punched to long-on </td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td align="right" width="30">24.2</td> <td width="100%">YK Pathan to Mohammad Ashraful, 1 run, leans forward to steer to cover point </td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td align="right" width="30">24.3</td> <td width="100%">YK Pathan to Raqibul Hasan, 1 run, fuller and they will pick up a single with a drive to long on </td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td align="right" width="30">24.4</td> <td width="100%">YK Pathan to Mohammad Ashraful, 1 run, turns in ever so slightly from outside off, late cut to left of Gambhir at short third man </td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td align="right" width="30">24.5</td> <td width="100%">YK Pathan to Raqibul Hasan, 1 run, this time to right of Gambhir for yet another single</td></tr></tbody></table>

32 runs in a span of 42 Balls in boggle down overs, thats some real progress for us

If you could but a few more Tamim's, Raqibuls, Sakibs and Aftabs around this new Ash, like Spitty Said with all these Obivious Choices we will get to West Indies Level

Fazal
June 12, 2008, 02:48 PM
Siddons is building towards a bigger plan and a New Ash

There should be a name for this plan : "Ash Fash" or "Ash-er Golai Fash"