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View Full Version : Siddons targets 240 as team total


BANFAN
June 22, 2008, 05:14 AM
Siddons was also pleased that the team was scoring more than 200 and batting out 50 overs more often than they used to. "We used to score over 200 runs only about 25% of the time, but since I have been here it has gone up to 50%. That is a start. Things are not going to turn around overnight with this team. We have changed the team a fair bit; lots of younger players have come into the side. At the moment, we have the young guys learning the game at the international level and I see some really good performances."

Full Story (http://content-pak.cricinfo.com/asiacup/content/story/355703.html)

nsd3
June 22, 2008, 05:46 AM
I don't see anything wrong in his comments. Was a bit surprised to see no salt added on your post on him BANFAN!! Let's see what happens next in Asia Cup.

Baundule
June 22, 2008, 05:48 AM
Who will tell this guy that the score is a relative matter? In some matches, 180 is a good score, while in some others 280 is not. BD team think tank terribly misses out the dynamicity in their thinking based on the match condition. With that type of pre-planned target, they will even be more and more static.

Bangladesh certainly can not score 240+ in each match - they do not need to - but not achieveing such target will put more pressure on the players and they will be more and more void of confidence.

Siddons said it was a reality that other teams were better than Bangladesh and his players knew that. "Out there it is a tough game for them with the skill level they have got. Our batsmen average 20; batsmen in other teams average 35. So it's 350 for them versus 200 for us. That is the reality of the situation."

I do not understand what this guy is up to. And what the good comments like this will bring to the team. IMO, it needs to be a great stupid to make comments like that.

nsd3
June 22, 2008, 07:35 AM
Avoiding facts would not do any good either. What he said are based on facts. To make a dream come reality all need to work based on reality.

BD-Shardul
June 22, 2008, 07:44 AM
Siddons defended the 'Team Rules' that he drew up for each player and denied they were having an adverse effect on the players' natural game. "When I first came here, everyone was saying to me - you have got to stop Ashraful from playing rash shots all the time. Now that he has stopped playing rash shots, you are telling me to let him play them. So I am not sure what everyone wants. But with Ash batting at three, I think it's perfect. He can play his natural game until we lose two wickets. After that, he has to play a little bit more sensibly."


La jowab.

Miraz
June 22, 2008, 08:03 AM
Siddons is lying.

Between 1 July 2005 to 18 Jun 2007 (last 2 years under Dav Whatmore).

Out of 48 matches played we scored 200+ in 24 innings and that's exactly 50%, add 9 matches to the list in which we scored less than 200, but won the matches as the opponents scored well below 200.

So, ideally 33 out of 48 innings (68.75%) we either scored 200+ or won the match.

I don't know from where he is getting that 25% info!!! He is probably taking the data of last 10 years into account to make his stats look good. That's simply stupid.

From Statsguru --

<table class="engineTable" style="margin: 6px 9px;"><tbody><tr><td colspan="2" valign="top" align="left">View: innings by innings list [change view (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:void%280%29)]
Start of match date: between 1 Jul 2005 and 18 Jun 2007http://stats.cricinfo.com/navigation/engine-nav/remove.gif (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/team/25.html?class=2;template=results;type=team;view=in nings)
Totals in terms of: batting teamhttp://stats.cricinfo.com/navigation/engine-nav/remove.gif (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/team/25.html?class=2;spanmax1=18+Jun+2007;spanmin1=01+J ul+2005;spanval1=span;team_view=bowl;template=resu lts;type=team;view=innings)
Ordered by: start date (ascending)
</td> </tr> <tr> <td style="text-align: left; padding-top: 3px;">
</td> <td style="text-align: right; padding-top: 3px;"> http://stats.cricinfo.com/navigation/engine-nav/previous-double-arrow.gifReturn to query menu (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/team/25.html?class=2;spanmax1=18+Jun+2007;spanmin1=01+J ul+2005;spanval1=span;type=team;view=innings)|http ://stats.cricinfo.com/navigation/engine-nav/previous-double-clear-arrow.gifCleared query menu (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/team/25.html?class=2;type=team) </td> </tr> </tbody></table> <table class="engineTable"> <caption>Overall figures</caption> <thead> <tr class="head"> <th class="left" nowrap="nowrap">
</th> <th title="playing span" class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Span</th> <th title="matches played" nowrap="nowrap">Mat</th> <th title="matches won" nowrap="nowrap">Won</th> <th title="matches lost" nowrap="nowrap">Lost</th> <th title="matches tied" nowrap="nowrap">Tied</th> <th title="matches with no result" nowrap="nowrap">NR</th> <th title="win/loss ratio" nowrap="nowrap">W/L</th> <th title="average runs per wicket" nowrap="nowrap">Ave</th> <th title="average runs per six balls" nowrap="nowrap">RPO</th> <th title="highest team score" nowrap="nowrap">HS</th> <th title="lowest completed score" nowrap="nowrap">LS</th> <th>
</th> </tr> </thead> <tbody> <tr class="data1"> <td class="left">unfiltered</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">1986-2008</td> <td>179</td> <td>39</td> <td>138</td> <td>0</td> <td>2</td> <td>0.28</td> <td>21.60</td> <td>4.08</td> <td>301</td> <td>76</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">Profile (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/25.html)</td> </tr> </tbody> <tbody> <tr class="data1"> <td class="left">filtered</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">2005-2007</td> <td>48</td> <td>26</td> <td>22</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>1.18</td> <td>27.30</td> <td>4.50</td> <td>301</td> <td>108</td> <td>
</td> </tr> </tbody> </table>
<table class="engineTable"><caption>Innings by innings list</caption> <thead> <tr class="headlinks"> <th class="padTS" nowrap="nowrap">Score (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/team/25.html?class=2;orderby=team_score;spanmax1=18+Jun +2007;spanmin1=01+Jul+2005;spanval1=span;template= results;type=team;view=innings)</th> <th nowrap="nowrap">Overs (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/team/25.html?class=2;orderby=team_overs;spanmax1=18+Jun +2007;spanmin1=01+Jul+2005;spanval1=span;template= results;type=team;view=innings)</th> <th nowrap="nowrap">RPO (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/team/25.html?class=2;orderby=runs_per_over;spanmax1=18+ Jun+2007;spanmin1=01+Jul+2005;spanval1=span;templa te=results;type=team;view=innings)</th> <th nowrap="nowrap">Target (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/team/25.html?class=2;orderby=target;spanmax1=18+Jun+200 7;spanmin1=01+Jul+2005;spanval1=span;template=resu lts;type=team;view=innings)</th> <th nowrap="nowrap">Inns (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/team/25.html?class=2;orderby=innings_number;spanmax1=18 +Jun+2007;spanmin1=01+Jul+2005;spanval1=span;templ ate=results;type=team;view=innings)</th> <th class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Result (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/team/25.html?class=2;orderby=result;spanmax1=18+Jun+200 7;spanmin1=01+Jul+2005;spanval1=span;template=resu lts;type=team;view=innings)</th> <th nowrap="nowrap">
</th> <th title="opposition team name" class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Opposition</th> <th title="ground played on" class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Ground</th> <th nowrap="nowrap">Start Datehttp://stats.cricinfo.com/navigation/engine-nav/up.gif (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/team/25.html?class=2;orderby=start;orderbyad=reverse;sp anmax1=18+Jun+2007;spanmin1=01+Jul+2005;spanval1=s pan;template=results;type=team;view=innings)</th> <th>
</th> </tr> </thead> <tbody> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSw">181/9</td> <td>50.0</td> <td>3.62</td> <td>270</td> <td>2</td> <td class="left">lost</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v Sri Lanka (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/8.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Colombo (SSC) (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/59308.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">31 Aug 2005</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2275 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/217647.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSw">220/6</td> <td>50.0</td> <td>4.40</td> <td>296</td> <td>2</td> <td class="left">lost</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v Sri Lanka (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/8.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Colombo (RPS) (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/59306.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">2 Sep 2005</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2277 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/217810.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSao">108</td> <td>38.2</td> <td>2.81</td> <td>
</td> <td>1</td> <td class="left">lost</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v Sri Lanka (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/8.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Colombo (RPS) (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/59306.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">4 Sep 2005</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2279 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/217978.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSao">118</td> <td>35.5</td> <td>3.29</td> <td>
</td> <td>1</td> <td class="left">lost</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v Sri Lanka (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/8.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Bogra (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/56670.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">20 Feb 2006</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2334 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/237574.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSw">213/6</td> <td>47.0</td> <td>4.53</td> <td>213</td> <td>2</td> <td class="left">won</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v Sri Lanka (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/8.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Bogra (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/56670.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">22 Feb 2006</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2336 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/238169.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSw">231/9</td> <td>50.0</td> <td>4.62</td> <td>310</td> <td>2</td> <td class="left">lost</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v Sri Lanka (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/8.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Chittagong (CDS) (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/56658.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">25 Feb 2006</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2338 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/238170.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSw">301/7</td> <td>50.0</td> <td>6.02</td> <td>
</td> <td>1</td> <td class="left">won</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v Kenya (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/26.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Bogra (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/56670.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">17 Mar 2006</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2350 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/239902.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSw">162/1</td> <td>23.5</td> <td>6.79</td> <td>162</td> <td>2</td> <td class="left">won</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v Kenya (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/26.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Khulna (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/56691.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">20 Mar 2006</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2353 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/239903.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSao">231</td> <td>45.5</td> <td>5.04</td> <td>
</td> <td>1</td> <td class="left">won</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v Kenya (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/26.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Fatullah (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/56667.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">23 Mar 2006</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2355 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/239904.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSw">237/3</td> <td>41.3</td> <td>5.71</td> <td>233</td> <td>2</td> <td class="left">won</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v Kenya (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/26.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Fatullah (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/56667.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">25 Mar 2006</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2356 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/239905.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSao">195</td> <td>47.0</td> <td>4.14</td> <td>
</td> <td>1</td> <td class="left">lost</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v Australia (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/2.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Chittagong (CDS) (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/56658.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">23 Apr 2006</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2365 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/238173.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSao">183</td> <td>48.0</td> <td>3.81</td> <td>251</td> <td>2</td> <td class="left">lost</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v Australia (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/2.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Fatullah (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/56667.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">26 Apr 2006</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2366 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/238174.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSao">124</td> <td>42.3</td> <td>2.91</td> <td>
</td> <td>1</td> <td class="left">lost</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v Australia (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/2.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Fatullah (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/56667.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">28 Apr 2006</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2367 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/238175.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSw">246/7</td> <td>50.0</td> <td>4.92</td> <td>
</td> <td>1</td> <td class="left">lost</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v Zimbabwe (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/9.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Harare (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/59545.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">29 Jul 2006</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2392 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/249203.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSw">238/8</td> <td>50.0</td> <td>4.76</td> <td>
</td> <td>1</td> <td class="left">won</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v Zimbabwe (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/9.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Harare (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/59545.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">30 Jul 2006</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2393 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/249204.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSao">236</td> <td>49.0</td> <td>4.81</td> <td>
</td> <td>1</td> <td class="left">lost</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v Zimbabwe (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/9.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Harare (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/59545.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">2 Aug 2006</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2394 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/249205.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSw">206/9</td> <td>50.0</td> <td>4.12</td> <td>
</td> <td>1</td> <td class="left">lost</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v Zimbabwe (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/9.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Harare (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/59545.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">4 Aug 2006</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2395 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/249206.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSw">201/2</td> <td>44.4</td> <td>4.50</td> <td>198</td> <td>2</td> <td class="left">won</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v Zimbabwe (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/9.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Harare (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/59545.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">6 Aug 2006</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2398 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/249207.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSw">170/4</td> <td>30.1</td> <td>5.63</td> <td>169</td> <td>2</td> <td class="left">won</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v Kenya (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/26.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Nairobi (Gym) (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/58661.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">12 Aug 2006</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2402 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/249378.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSw">185/8</td> <td>46.0</td> <td>4.02</td> <td>185</td> <td>2</td> <td class="left">won</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v Kenya (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/26.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Nairobi (Gym) (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/58661.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">13 Aug 2006</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2403 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/249379.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSw">120/4</td> <td>27.0</td> <td>4.44</td> <td>119</td> <td>2</td> <td class="left">won</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v Kenya (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/26.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Nairobi (Gym) (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/58661.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">15 Aug 2006</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2404 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/249380.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSw">265/9</td> <td>50.0</td> <td>5.30</td> <td>303</td> <td>2</td> <td class="left">lost</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v Sri Lanka (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/8.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Mohali (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/57991.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">7 Oct 2006</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2423 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/249739.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSao">161</td> <td>46.3</td> <td>3.46</td> <td>
</td> <td>1</td> <td class="left">lost</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v West Indies (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/4.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Jaipur (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/58162.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">11 Oct 2006</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2426 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/249742.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSw">231/6</td> <td>50.0</td> <td>4.62</td> <td>
</td> <td>1</td> <td class="left">won</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v Zimbabwe (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/9.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Jaipur (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/58162.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">13 Oct 2006</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2427 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/249743.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSw">186/1</td> <td>45.3</td> <td>4.08</td> <td>185</td> <td>2</td> <td class="left">won</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v Zimbabwe (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/9.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Khulna (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/56691.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">30 Nov 2006</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2453 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/264066.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSw">218/4</td> <td>42.4</td> <td>5.10</td> <td>218</td> <td>2</td> <td class="left">won</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v Zimbabwe (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/9.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Bogra (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/56670.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">3 Dec 2006</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2457 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/264068.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSao">220</td> <td>49.2</td> <td>4.45</td> <td>
</td> <td>1</td> <td class="left">won</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v Zimbabwe (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/9.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Bogra (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/56670.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">5 Dec 2006</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2459 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/264069.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSw">147/2</td> <td>32.2</td> <td>4.54</td> <td>147</td> <td>2</td> <td class="left">won</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v Zimbabwe (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/9.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Dhaka (SBNS) (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/236761.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">8 Dec 2006</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2461 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/264070.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSw">197/7</td> <td>49.0</td> <td>4.02</td> <td>194</td> <td>2</td> <td class="left">won</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v Zimbabwe (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/9.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Dhaka (SBNS) (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/236761.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">9 Dec 2006</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2462 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/264071.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSw">154/4</td> <td>29.1</td> <td>5.28</td> <td>154</td> <td>2</td> <td class="left">won</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v Scotland (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/30.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Chittagong (CDS) (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/56658.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">15 Dec 2006</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2465 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/264075.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSw">278/6</td> <td>50.0</td> <td>5.56</td> <td>
</td> <td>1</td> <td class="left">won</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v Scotland (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/30.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Dhaka (SBNS) (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/236761.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">17 Dec 2006</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2467 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/264076.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSw">260/9</td> <td>50.0</td> <td>5.20</td> <td>
</td> <td>1</td> <td class="left">won</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v Zimbabwe (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/9.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Harare (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/59545.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">4 Feb 2007</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2505 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/275754.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSao">153</td> <td>46.0</td> <td>3.32</td> <td>
</td> <td>1</td> <td class="left">lost</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v Zimbabwe (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/9.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Harare (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/59545.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">6 Feb 2007</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2511 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/275755.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSw">228/9</td> <td>50.0</td> <td>4.56</td> <td>
</td> <td>1</td> <td class="left">won</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v Zimbabwe (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/9.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Harare (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/59545.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">9 Feb 2007</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2516 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/275756.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSw">246/9</td> <td>47.2</td> <td>5.19</td> <td>245</td> <td>2</td> <td class="left">won</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v Zimbabwe (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/9.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Harare (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/59545.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">10 Feb 2007</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2518 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/275757.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSw">206/2</td> <td>37.3</td> <td>5.49</td> <td>206</td> <td>2</td> <td class="left">won</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v Bermuda (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/12.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">St John's (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/59495.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">25 Feb 2007</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2528 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/274777.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSw">278/5</td> <td>50.0</td> <td>5.56</td> <td>
</td> <td>1</td> <td class="left">won</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v Canada (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/17.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">St John's (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/59495.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">28 Feb 2007</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2530 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/274779.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSw">192/5</td> <td>48.3</td> <td>3.95</td> <td>192</td> <td>2</td> <td class="left">won</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v India (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/6.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Port of Spain (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/59475.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">17 Mar 2007</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2538 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/247464.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSao">112</td> <td>37.0</td> <td>3.02</td> <td>311</td> <td>2</td> <td class="left">lost</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v Sri Lanka (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/8.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Port of Spain (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/59475.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">21 Mar 2007</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2546 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/247472.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSw">96/3</td> <td>17.3</td> <td>5.48</td> <td>96</td> <td>2</td> <td class="left">won</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v Bermuda (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/12.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Port of Spain (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/59475.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">25 Mar 2007</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2554 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/247480.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSw">104/6</td> <td>22.0</td> <td>4.72</td> <td>
</td> <td>1</td> <td class="left">lost</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v Australia (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/2.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">North Sound (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/208543.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">31 Mar 2007</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2559 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/247485.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSao">174</td> <td>48.3</td> <td>3.58</td> <td>
</td> <td>1</td> <td class="left">lost</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v New Zealand (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/5.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">North Sound (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/208543.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">2 Apr 2007</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2561 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/247487.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSw">251/8</td> <td>50.0</td> <td>5.02</td> <td>
</td> <td>1</td> <td class="left">won</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v South Africa (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/3.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Providence (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/208544.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">7 Apr 2007</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2564 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/247490.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSao">143</td> <td>37.2</td> <td>3.83</td> <td>
</td> <td>1</td> <td class="left">lost</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v England (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/1.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Bridgetown (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/59429.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">11 Apr 2007</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2568 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/247494.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSao">169</td> <td>41.2</td> <td>4.08</td> <td>244</td> <td>2</td> <td class="left">lost</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v Ireland (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/29.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Bridgetown (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/59429.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">15 Apr 2007</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2572 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/247498.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSao">131</td> <td>43.5</td> <td>2.98</td> <td>231</td> <td>2</td> <td class="left">lost</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v West Indies (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/4.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Bridgetown (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/59429.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">19 Apr 2007</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2576 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/247502.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSw">250/7</td> <td>47.0</td> <td>5.31</td> <td>
</td> <td>1</td> <td class="left">lost</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v India (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/6.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Dhaka (SBNS) (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/236761.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">10 May 2007</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2582 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/282688.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSw">238/9</td> <td>49.0</td> <td>4.85</td> <td>285</td> <td>2</td> <td class="left">lost</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v India (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/6.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Dhaka (SBNS) (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/236761.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">12 May 2007</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2583 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/282689.html)</td></tr></tbody></table>

crikfreak
June 22, 2008, 08:14 AM
Siddons is lying.

Between 1 July 2005 to 18 Jun 2007 (last 2 years under Dav Whatmore).

Out of 48 matches played we scored 200+ in 24 innings and that's exactly 50%, add 9 matches to the list in which we scored less than 200, but won the matches as the opponents scored well below 200.

So, ideally 33 out of 48 innings (68.75%) we either scored 200+ or won the match.

I don't know from where he is getting that 25% info!!! He is probably taking the data of last 10 years into account to make his stats look good. That's simply stupid.

From Statsguru --

<table class="engineTable" style="margin: 6px 9px;"><tbody><tr><td colspan="2" valign="top" align="left">View: innings by innings list [change view (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:void%280%29)]
Start of match date: between 1 Jul 2005 and 18 Jun 2007http://stats.cricinfo.com/navigation/engine-nav/remove.gif (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/team/25.html?class=2;template=results;type=team;view=in nings)
Totals in terms of: batting teamhttp://stats.cricinfo.com/navigation/engine-nav/remove.gif (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/team/25.html?class=2;spanmax1=18+Jun+2007;spanmin1=01+J ul+2005;spanval1=span;team_view=bowl;template=resu lts;type=team;view=innings)
Ordered by: start date (ascending)
</td> </tr> <tr> <td style="text-align: left; padding-top: 3px;">
</td> <td style="text-align: right; padding-top: 3px;"> http://stats.cricinfo.com/navigation/engine-nav/previous-double-arrow.gifReturn to query menu (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/team/25.html?class=2;spanmax1=18+Jun+2007;spanmin1=01+J ul+2005;spanval1=span;type=team;view=innings)|http ://stats.cricinfo.com/navigation/engine-nav/previous-double-clear-arrow.gifCleared query menu (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/team/25.html?class=2;type=team) </td> </tr> </tbody></table> <table class="engineTable"> <caption>Overall figures</caption> <thead> <tr class="head"> <th class="left" nowrap="nowrap">
</th> <th title="playing span" class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Span</th> <th title="matches played" nowrap="nowrap">Mat</th> <th title="matches won" nowrap="nowrap">Won</th> <th title="matches lost" nowrap="nowrap">Lost</th> <th title="matches tied" nowrap="nowrap">Tied</th> <th title="matches with no result" nowrap="nowrap">NR</th> <th title="win/loss ratio" nowrap="nowrap">W/L</th> <th title="average runs per wicket" nowrap="nowrap">Ave</th> <th title="average runs per six balls" nowrap="nowrap">RPO</th> <th title="highest team score" nowrap="nowrap">HS</th> <th title="lowest completed score" nowrap="nowrap">LS</th> <th>
</th> </tr> </thead> <tbody> <tr class="data1"> <td class="left">unfiltered</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">1986-2008</td> <td>179</td> <td>39</td> <td>138</td> <td>0</td> <td>2</td> <td>0.28</td> <td>21.60</td> <td>4.08</td> <td>301</td> <td>76</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">Profile (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/25.html)</td> </tr> </tbody> <tbody> <tr class="data1"> <td class="left">filtered</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">2005-2007</td> <td>48</td> <td>26</td> <td>22</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>1.18</td> <td>27.30</td> <td>4.50</td> <td>301</td> <td>108</td> <td>
</td> </tr> </tbody> </table>
<table class="engineTable"><caption>Innings by innings list</caption> <thead> <tr class="headlinks"> <th class="padTS" nowrap="nowrap">Score (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/team/25.html?class=2;orderby=team_score;spanmax1=18+Jun +2007;spanmin1=01+Jul+2005;spanval1=span;template= results;type=team;view=innings)</th> <th nowrap="nowrap">Overs (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/team/25.html?class=2;orderby=team_overs;spanmax1=18+Jun +2007;spanmin1=01+Jul+2005;spanval1=span;template= results;type=team;view=innings)</th> <th nowrap="nowrap">RPO (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/team/25.html?class=2;orderby=runs_per_over;spanmax1=18+ Jun+2007;spanmin1=01+Jul+2005;spanval1=span;templa te=results;type=team;view=innings)</th> <th nowrap="nowrap">Target (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/team/25.html?class=2;orderby=target;spanmax1=18+Jun+200 7;spanmin1=01+Jul+2005;spanval1=span;template=resu lts;type=team;view=innings)</th> <th nowrap="nowrap">Inns (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/team/25.html?class=2;orderby=innings_number;spanmax1=18 +Jun+2007;spanmin1=01+Jul+2005;spanval1=span;templ ate=results;type=team;view=innings)</th> <th class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Result (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/team/25.html?class=2;orderby=result;spanmax1=18+Jun+200 7;spanmin1=01+Jul+2005;spanval1=span;template=resu lts;type=team;view=innings)</th> <th nowrap="nowrap">
</th> <th title="opposition team name" class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Opposition</th> <th title="ground played on" class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Ground</th> <th nowrap="nowrap">Start Datehttp://stats.cricinfo.com/navigation/engine-nav/up.gif (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/team/25.html?class=2;orderby=start;orderbyad=reverse;sp anmax1=18+Jun+2007;spanmin1=01+Jul+2005;spanval1=s pan;template=results;type=team;view=innings)</th> <th>
</th> </tr> </thead> <tbody> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSw">181/9</td> <td>50.0</td> <td>3.62</td> <td>270</td> <td>2</td> <td class="left">lost</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v Sri Lanka (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/8.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Colombo (SSC) (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/59308.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">31 Aug 2005</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2275 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/217647.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSw">220/6</td> <td>50.0</td> <td>4.40</td> <td>296</td> <td>2</td> <td class="left">lost</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v Sri Lanka (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/8.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Colombo (RPS) (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/59306.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">2 Sep 2005</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2277 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/217810.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSao">108</td> <td>38.2</td> <td>2.81</td> <td>
</td> <td>1</td> <td class="left">lost</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v Sri Lanka (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/8.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Colombo (RPS) (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/59306.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">4 Sep 2005</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2279 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/217978.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSao">118</td> <td>35.5</td> <td>3.29</td> <td>
</td> <td>1</td> <td class="left">lost</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v Sri Lanka (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/8.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Bogra (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/56670.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">20 Feb 2006</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2334 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/237574.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSw">213/6</td> <td>47.0</td> <td>4.53</td> <td>213</td> <td>2</td> <td class="left">won</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v Sri Lanka (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/8.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Bogra (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/56670.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">22 Feb 2006</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2336 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/238169.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSw">231/9</td> <td>50.0</td> <td>4.62</td> <td>310</td> <td>2</td> <td class="left">lost</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v Sri Lanka (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/8.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Chittagong (CDS) (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/56658.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">25 Feb 2006</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2338 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/238170.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSw">301/7</td> <td>50.0</td> <td>6.02</td> <td>
</td> <td>1</td> <td class="left">won</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v Kenya (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/26.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Bogra (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/56670.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">17 Mar 2006</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2350 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/239902.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSw">162/1</td> <td>23.5</td> <td>6.79</td> <td>162</td> <td>2</td> <td class="left">won</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v Kenya (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/26.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Khulna (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/56691.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">20 Mar 2006</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2353 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/239903.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSao">231</td> <td>45.5</td> <td>5.04</td> <td>
</td> <td>1</td> <td class="left">won</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v Kenya (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/26.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Fatullah (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/56667.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">23 Mar 2006</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2355 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/239904.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSw">237/3</td> <td>41.3</td> <td>5.71</td> <td>233</td> <td>2</td> <td class="left">won</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v Kenya (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/26.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Fatullah (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/56667.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">25 Mar 2006</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2356 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/239905.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSao">195</td> <td>47.0</td> <td>4.14</td> <td>
</td> <td>1</td> <td class="left">lost</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v Australia (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/2.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Chittagong (CDS) (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/56658.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">23 Apr 2006</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2365 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/238173.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSao">183</td> <td>48.0</td> <td>3.81</td> <td>251</td> <td>2</td> <td class="left">lost</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v Australia (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/2.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Fatullah (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/56667.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">26 Apr 2006</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2366 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/238174.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSao">124</td> <td>42.3</td> <td>2.91</td> <td>
</td> <td>1</td> <td class="left">lost</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v Australia (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/2.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Fatullah (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/56667.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">28 Apr 2006</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2367 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/238175.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSw">246/7</td> <td>50.0</td> <td>4.92</td> <td>
</td> <td>1</td> <td class="left">lost</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v Zimbabwe (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/9.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Harare (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/59545.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">29 Jul 2006</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2392 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/249203.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSw">238/8</td> <td>50.0</td> <td>4.76</td> <td>
</td> <td>1</td> <td class="left">won</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v Zimbabwe (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/9.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Harare (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/59545.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">30 Jul 2006</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2393 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/249204.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSao">236</td> <td>49.0</td> <td>4.81</td> <td>
</td> <td>1</td> <td class="left">lost</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v Zimbabwe (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/9.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Harare (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/59545.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">2 Aug 2006</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2394 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/249205.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSw">206/9</td> <td>50.0</td> <td>4.12</td> <td>
</td> <td>1</td> <td class="left">lost</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v Zimbabwe (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/9.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Harare (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/59545.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">4 Aug 2006</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2395 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/249206.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSw">201/2</td> <td>44.4</td> <td>4.50</td> <td>198</td> <td>2</td> <td class="left">won</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v Zimbabwe (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/9.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Harare (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/59545.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">6 Aug 2006</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2398 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/249207.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSw">170/4</td> <td>30.1</td> <td>5.63</td> <td>169</td> <td>2</td> <td class="left">won</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v Kenya (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/26.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Nairobi (Gym) (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/58661.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">12 Aug 2006</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2402 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/249378.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSw">185/8</td> <td>46.0</td> <td>4.02</td> <td>185</td> <td>2</td> <td class="left">won</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v Kenya (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/26.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Nairobi (Gym) (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/58661.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">13 Aug 2006</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2403 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/249379.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSw">120/4</td> <td>27.0</td> <td>4.44</td> <td>119</td> <td>2</td> <td class="left">won</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v Kenya (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/26.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Nairobi (Gym) (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/58661.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">15 Aug 2006</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2404 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/249380.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSw">265/9</td> <td>50.0</td> <td>5.30</td> <td>303</td> <td>2</td> <td class="left">lost</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v Sri Lanka (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/8.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Mohali (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/57991.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">7 Oct 2006</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2423 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/249739.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSao">161</td> <td>46.3</td> <td>3.46</td> <td>
</td> <td>1</td> <td class="left">lost</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v West Indies (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/4.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Jaipur (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/58162.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">11 Oct 2006</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2426 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/249742.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSw">231/6</td> <td>50.0</td> <td>4.62</td> <td>
</td> <td>1</td> <td class="left">won</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v Zimbabwe (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/9.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Jaipur (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/58162.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">13 Oct 2006</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2427 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/249743.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSw">186/1</td> <td>45.3</td> <td>4.08</td> <td>185</td> <td>2</td> <td class="left">won</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v Zimbabwe (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/9.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Khulna (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/56691.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">30 Nov 2006</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2453 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/264066.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSw">218/4</td> <td>42.4</td> <td>5.10</td> <td>218</td> <td>2</td> <td class="left">won</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v Zimbabwe (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/9.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Bogra (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/56670.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">3 Dec 2006</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2457 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/264068.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSao">220</td> <td>49.2</td> <td>4.45</td> <td>
</td> <td>1</td> <td class="left">won</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v Zimbabwe (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/9.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Bogra (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/56670.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">5 Dec 2006</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2459 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/264069.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSw">147/2</td> <td>32.2</td> <td>4.54</td> <td>147</td> <td>2</td> <td class="left">won</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v Zimbabwe (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/9.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Dhaka (SBNS) (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/236761.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">8 Dec 2006</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2461 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/264070.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSw">197/7</td> <td>49.0</td> <td>4.02</td> <td>194</td> <td>2</td> <td class="left">won</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v Zimbabwe (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/9.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Dhaka (SBNS) (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/236761.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">9 Dec 2006</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2462 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/264071.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSw">154/4</td> <td>29.1</td> <td>5.28</td> <td>154</td> <td>2</td> <td class="left">won</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v Scotland (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/30.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Chittagong (CDS) (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/56658.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">15 Dec 2006</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2465 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/264075.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSw">278/6</td> <td>50.0</td> <td>5.56</td> <td>
</td> <td>1</td> <td class="left">won</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v Scotland (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/30.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Dhaka (SBNS) (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/236761.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">17 Dec 2006</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2467 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/264076.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSw">260/9</td> <td>50.0</td> <td>5.20</td> <td>
</td> <td>1</td> <td class="left">won</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v Zimbabwe (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/9.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Harare (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/59545.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">4 Feb 2007</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2505 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/275754.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSao">153</td> <td>46.0</td> <td>3.32</td> <td>
</td> <td>1</td> <td class="left">lost</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v Zimbabwe (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/9.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Harare (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/59545.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">6 Feb 2007</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2511 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/275755.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSw">228/9</td> <td>50.0</td> <td>4.56</td> <td>
</td> <td>1</td> <td class="left">won</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v Zimbabwe (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/9.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Harare (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/59545.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">9 Feb 2007</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2516 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/275756.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSw">246/9</td> <td>47.2</td> <td>5.19</td> <td>245</td> <td>2</td> <td class="left">won</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v Zimbabwe (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/9.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Harare (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/59545.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">10 Feb 2007</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2518 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/275757.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSw">206/2</td> <td>37.3</td> <td>5.49</td> <td>206</td> <td>2</td> <td class="left">won</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v Bermuda (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/12.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">St John's (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/59495.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">25 Feb 2007</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2528 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/274777.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSw">278/5</td> <td>50.0</td> <td>5.56</td> <td>
</td> <td>1</td> <td class="left">won</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v Canada (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/17.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">St John's (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/59495.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">28 Feb 2007</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2530 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/274779.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSw">192/5</td> <td>48.3</td> <td>3.95</td> <td>192</td> <td>2</td> <td class="left">won</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v India (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/6.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Port of Spain (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/59475.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">17 Mar 2007</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2538 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/247464.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSao">112</td> <td>37.0</td> <td>3.02</td> <td>311</td> <td>2</td> <td class="left">lost</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v Sri Lanka (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/8.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Port of Spain (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/59475.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">21 Mar 2007</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2546 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/247472.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSw">96/3</td> <td>17.3</td> <td>5.48</td> <td>96</td> <td>2</td> <td class="left">won</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v Bermuda (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/12.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Port of Spain (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/59475.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">25 Mar 2007</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2554 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/247480.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSw">104/6</td> <td>22.0</td> <td>4.72</td> <td>
</td> <td>1</td> <td class="left">lost</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v Australia (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/2.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">North Sound (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/208543.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">31 Mar 2007</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2559 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/247485.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSao">174</td> <td>48.3</td> <td>3.58</td> <td>
</td> <td>1</td> <td class="left">lost</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v New Zealand (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/5.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">North Sound (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/208543.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">2 Apr 2007</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2561 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/247487.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSw">251/8</td> <td>50.0</td> <td>5.02</td> <td>
</td> <td>1</td> <td class="left">won</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v South Africa (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/3.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Providence (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/208544.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">7 Apr 2007</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2564 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/247490.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSao">143</td> <td>37.2</td> <td>3.83</td> <td>
</td> <td>1</td> <td class="left">lost</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v England (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/1.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Bridgetown (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/59429.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">11 Apr 2007</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2568 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/247494.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSao">169</td> <td>41.2</td> <td>4.08</td> <td>244</td> <td>2</td> <td class="left">lost</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v Ireland (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/29.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Bridgetown (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/59429.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">15 Apr 2007</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2572 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/247498.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSao">131</td> <td>43.5</td> <td>2.98</td> <td>231</td> <td>2</td> <td class="left">lost</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v West Indies (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/4.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Bridgetown (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/59429.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">19 Apr 2007</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2576 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/247502.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSw">250/7</td> <td>47.0</td> <td>5.31</td> <td>
</td> <td>1</td> <td class="left">lost</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v India (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/6.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Dhaka (SBNS) (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/236761.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">10 May 2007</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2582 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/282688.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="padTSw">238/9</td> <td>49.0</td> <td>4.85</td> <td>285</td> <td>2</td> <td class="left">lost</td> <td>
</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">v India (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/team/6.html)</td> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Dhaka (SBNS) (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/ground/236761.html)</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">12 May 2007</td> <td style="padding: 1px 0px 1px 3px; white-space: nowrap;">ODI # 2583 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/282689.html)</td></tr></tbody></table>

just goes to show how wrong that man is.. in most of his interviews.. he's said stuff about our past thats not true.. i wonder why:-/

rattlehead
June 22, 2008, 08:22 AM
with a few exceptions, most of those 200+ scores arent against the top 8 teams. Siddons is implying scoring 240 against the top 8 teams. He has a pretty good method, at first he talked about scoring 200+, once the team did that..with a lot of effort, he made 220 our target, i think we did that against india in the kitply cup..and now the target is 240. once the team does that, im sure he'll make the targets bigger gradually..and hopefully one day we'll see this team scoring 250+ consistently

mijanur
June 22, 2008, 08:33 AM
sidons is thinking positive. and crating positive comment. the problem wiv bd players they do not belive in them self. classic example is when new zealand players belived in them self and won the match yesterday. at 1 point there wer 70 for 6 wikets they belived in them self and went up 2 181. and they belived that they wer gonna win and won

Miraz
June 22, 2008, 08:41 AM
with a few exceptions, most of those 200+ scores arent against the top 8 teams. Siddons is implying scoring 240 against the top 8 teams. He has a pretty good method, at first he talked about scoring 200+, once the team did that..with a lot of effort, he made 220 our target, i think we did that against india in the kitply cup..and now the target is 240. once the team does that, im sure he'll make the targets bigger gradually..and hopefully one day we'll see this team scoring 250+ consistently

Siddons is taking matches against Ireland into account to claim of achieving 50% mark, so you cannot take matches against Zimbabwe or Kenya out of the equation.

In Siddon's short era, on 38% occasions we managed to get past 200, during Whatmores last 2 years it was 39%, hardly any change in scenario, but the ways we are achieving those 200 marks are hugely different.

Now we are losing matches even before it is started and concentrating on getting 200+ score.

rattlehead
June 22, 2008, 08:59 AM
yeah we arent playing matches against zim and kenya now are we, if we were, that percentage with shoot up right up to the 80% mark. during whatmore era, it took him four years to change us from loosers to an inconsistent bunch, who won once in a while. Instead of blindly hating, why dont we give siddons one more year and see what he does.
"Now we are losing matches even before it is started and concentrating on getting 200+ score." if concentrating on getting 200+ scores at this level makes the players wet their pants with pressure..then we simply arent good enough to play.
Consistensy is what everyone is looking for, once we get consistent, we'll win matches for sure, and it cannot be done overnight.

nsd3
June 22, 2008, 09:19 AM
Man, you just saved my time from writing some points to the Cry Babies. Thanks a lot.
yeah we arent playing matches against zim and kenya now are we, if we were, that percentage with shoot up right up to the 80% mark. during whatmore era, it took him four years to change us from loosers to an inconsistent bunch, who won once in a while. Instead of blindly hating, why dont we give siddons one more year and see what he does.
"Now we are losing matches even before it is started and concentrating on getting 200+ score." if concentrating on getting 200+ scores at this level makes the players wet their pants with pressure..then we simply arent good enough to play.
Consistensy is what everyone is looking for, once we get consistent, we'll win matches for sure, and it cannot be done overnight.

Miraz
June 22, 2008, 09:21 AM
No one is blindly hating Siddons here.

We won 26 out of 48 matches played in the last two years of Whatmore, that's not inconsistent, fairly consistent performance. It didn't take four years to convert us from loosers to winners, it took just over a year.

During the same period we bagged 5 wins against top eight teams, that's inconsistent, but still big wins.

I want to target consistency and match win within the same period of time. Whatmore managed wins, but failed in consistent performance against top teams. Siddons is failing on both grounds.

Whatmore got a bunch of losers, but Siddons received a bunch of inconsistent winners. Siddons's job should have been easier compared to Whatmore's, but he is making the opposite conversion. He has now converted us again into losers and now he have to re-convert us into winners and only then you can be consistent winners.

I don't see a place of consistent losers in world cricket.

Scoring 200 runs cannot be considered as consistent performance when the opponents are scoring 300+.

Rabz
June 22, 2008, 09:22 AM
Let him speak.
He suddenly realised his new found love with the microphones.

rattlehead
June 22, 2008, 09:46 AM
"We won 26 out of 48 matches played in the last two years of Whatmore, that's not inconsistent, fairly consistent performance. It didn't take four years to convert us from loosers to winners, it took just over a year." and most of the matches were against who in the last two years? few wins here and there in two years against the top 8 wont take us anywhere. and we are well past the winning days against zim and kenya.

I do agree our bowling department is failing quite a lot, it used to be our main strength. and thats only because we had m. rafique, rasel and the good ol' mortaza back then. now what do we have, a whole new bunch, rasel will be back after injury, no rafique and mortaza has a potential beer belly, infact he does.

Siddons is a mainly a batting oriented coach, and he is doing his job in his department and also as a head coach. is it his fault he's not getting proper support. whos that fast bowling coach bcb hired again? where the hell is he?

but look on the bright side, if u see any, our batting has improved so much. we no longer have to rely on ashraful all the time. at this level he is having the players to teach basic techniques..come on, what other head coach of the national team of a cricket nation has to do that?

Baundule
June 22, 2008, 10:04 AM
Miraz bhai, great dig and agree 100% with with your analysis that followed.

He is just putting all our achievement in to garbage and telling the media that we are a piece of **** and every positive thing is his achievement. I am not sure, if JS is targetting the Jatio Sangsad election in December. Everything he says sounds like the voice of of a traditional BD politician. (every failure is up to the past govt, every achievement is a credit of the ruling party.)

Ishtylish cricketer
June 22, 2008, 11:14 AM
Miraz bhai, great dig and agree 100% with with your analysis that followed.

He is just putting all our achievement in to garbage and telling the media that we are a piece of **** and every positive thing is his achievement. I am not sure, if JS is targetting the Jatio Sangsad election in December. Everything he says sounds like the voice of of a traditional BD politician. (every failure is up to the past govt, every achievement is a credit of the ruling party.)

I think and sincerely hope that he's more worried about the shambolic state of Bd cricket and less about his self promotion. He is not paid to earn to sugar coat things with honey on top. Facts are facts! We don't have the quality to compete consistently against the top 8 because our players are skills-less. JS's trying to put together a game plan that can maximize each players growth as a cricketer which by extension will help the team cause as well. Let's face it, Bd is a laughing stock of world cricket because our players fail to do even the most basic things correctly. Call it mental mistakes, youthful exuberance or lack of applications, our players simply do not bat with a purpose and seem to be preoccupied with entertaining the crowd with fancy shots rather than trying to master the basics. If our players LEARN to play the high percentage/constructive ways, then our rare wins may not be deemed as "flukes", "anomalies" or "miracles" by the cricketing world. Remember the best way to achieve anything is by earning it with labour and intelligence. JS is trying to teach these guys that there is a method to even madness. Scoops and pedals entertain audience but the true recognition of a batsman comes from his conventional cricket shots. I just don't understand the skepticism lot of people have with his method. Winning is a process and our players have to work hard towards it to achieve it. Our neighbouring countries like India and Srilanka used to lose a lot of games in the past however, they've turned it around by developing a good cricketing culture that promoted the propre cricketing skills. I'm hoping BD can one day reach that state through good leadership.

Miraz
June 22, 2008, 11:26 AM
Bd is a laughing stock of world cricket because our players fail to do even the most basic things.

May be now, although I disagree that we have already hit that low, but defnitely wasn't a laughing stock even one year ago.

Everyone used to praise BD for their exciting cricket, the only criticizing point was the inconsistency, but everyone was very much optimistic about the future.

Things have changed significantly over the last 6-7 months, unfortunately in wrong direction.

The point you are raising about the winning process is defnitely a valid one, but national team is not the place to do the experiment. He should be appointed as the head coach of academy or age group teams.

National team head coach should be someone who can inspire cricketers and bring out the best to overcome their obvious limitations in skills and temperament.

Pundit
June 22, 2008, 11:31 AM
Being able to score 225 - 250, 70% of the times will indeed be a big positive, against the big teams.

I don't care what our past was, and what he thinks our past was, and what he says our past was.

If we tighten our totals in between that range, and he immdiately gets our bowlers to be worked upon, I think that is the perspective I want to base our success upon.

Some of you may aim higher, and some lower.

Pundit
June 22, 2008, 11:37 AM
National team head coach should be someone who can inspire cricketers and bring out the best to overcome their obvious limitations in skills and temperament.

So MIraz, how did you figure that out ? How many more coaches do you want to bring in and experiment with, before you truly know what our problems are?

I am reminded of the day after...in 1989 after Ershad was detained..some people were heart broken...were we not doing a bit too much to that poor old man?

Ok, let's bring back Whatmore, and after a year, and after 1 victory, we might want to reconsider the next choice.

But perhaps we have come to a cross-road...we as a team need to finally decide how we want to progress in world cricket....


....oh, before that, we have that other small thing to figure out...what we really mean and consistantly want to define as "progress." Pull out the reserach books, Miraz.

al Furqaan
June 22, 2008, 11:43 AM
siddons era:

200+ against NZ (once, but had we finished all games it would be 2x)
200+ against PAK 3x
200+ against IND

so out of 13 matches against top 8 sides, we have 6 200+ scores which is 46%. siddons is not using ireland to make his stats look better.

Miraz
June 22, 2008, 11:53 AM
It's not that JS is the first man who understood our problems, he is the first man who is highlighting the problems to cover-up his failures.

We have our problems and every coach has tried to sort that out in their own ways.

Whatmore succeeded to keep the team morale and self esteem high and that resulted in consistent win against associates, Kenya and Zimbabwe. We used to lose against them regularly before Whatmore took charge.

His inspirational coaching resulted in some big wins, but he failed to bring consistency against top teams. He failed, but he never highlighted the problems to save his back, instead he tried to keep the fighting spirit on to overcome the limitations.

Our main problem is the standard of domestic cricket. We are not supplying enough quality players to the national pipeline. We need someone like Siddons, who is a pure batting coach, in between national team and domestic cricket to help batsmen overcome their skill and technical limitations.

al Furqaan
June 22, 2008, 11:54 AM
lets give siddons another 6 months with this current tactic...it might work, it might not. at this point, we're lost either way.

much as the whatmore era was good, we won on pure chance (i.e everyone pulling it together to play responsibly once every 6 months or 15 games). we have to start winning more and it can only come with real improvements in mindset, and technique. i was quite upset with JS until a couple of weeks ago. but it seems he has changed at least one thing: big individual innings.

during whatmore era, our biggest individual ODI innings against top 8 sides were:

ash 100 against AUS
ash 94 against ENG
ash 87 against SA
Rajin 82 against IND
Rajin 71 against PAK
SN 75 against AUS
pilot 71 vs AUS
JO 81 vs AUS (or ENG)

in other words we had 6 innings of 70+ runs in aprox 50 games during whatmore era, with half of the innings being eid al ashrafs. the pilot and JO innings were far to slow to warrant any match winning potential, whereas even rajin's 71 was rapid enough to have possibly won a match. thats too much dependence on one player, and that can't be good.

in siddons era, we have 13 matches against top 8 sides:

ash 70 vs NZ
tamim 82 vs SA
sakib 75 vs PAK
sakib 108 vs PAK
Raqib 89 vs IND

we already have 5 70+ inninngs in just 13 matches...JS seems to be working the individual, and thats the only way we can have a decent team. plus ash has only one of those 5 significant innings.

Rabz
June 22, 2008, 12:07 PM
lets give siddons another 6 months with this current tactic...it might work, it might not. at this point, we're lost either way..

You might have said that in the beginning, but for me, thats the bottom line.

After all being said and done, i guess we should give him 6 more months.
His initial contract is for 2 years.

If we break it down, i guess he is taking the first year to re-develope the team the way he wants, taking results out of the equation.

If that is the case, i guess the second year should start to produce results at a desired level.

Dav had 4 years with the team. It would be unfortunate to compare JS with Dav at this point.

At least 6 more months i say.

Miraz
June 22, 2008, 12:10 PM
Al, . why 70? why not 100 or 50?

Let's take how many 50's our top 3 batsmen scored against top 8 teams during Whatmore era ---

Aftab
51 against England
67 against India
59 against West Indies

Ash
66 against Sri Lanka
100 against Australia
94 against England
58 against Australia
51 against Sri Lanka
61 against Sri Lanka
87 against South Africa

Sakib
67 against Sri Lanka
53 against India
50 against India
57 against England

Just three players and we have 14 50+ innings against top teams, if we include all batsmen it would be about 30 to 40 50+ innings.

Murad
June 22, 2008, 12:13 PM
JS doing OKAY with the batsmen but he's doing worse with the bowlers.

He should bring in Rasel as soon as possible to the ODI squad and send play Rajib only in the Test cricket.

Before when Rasel and Mash opened the bowling, we didn't allow the elite teams to score over 250 consistently against us.

But since JS came in, Rasel became his enemy. He doesn't have pace so he doesnt have a place in the team.

Selectors says Rasel is injured but my question is how is he going to play for the A-team if he's still injured?? Why did they select him for the A-team which is to begin in few days? If he can't play for the Asia cup then how's he supposed to play for the A-team which begins earlier than the Asia cup? Aren't they just making fun of themselves??

Siddons don't want Rasel, Selectors do what Siddons says, Rasel lost his place, Rafique lost his place and retired.

Just scoring over 200 is nothing if you let the opponents score over 300 everytime they bat against us.

We need to have a strong bowling line up if we score 240 and want to depend that total.

Mash, Rasel, Razzak, And Shakib should be our 4 main bowlers in all the matches. Others should be allrounders whoever get the chance.

abdulmukit
June 22, 2008, 12:19 PM
.



during whatmore era, our biggest individual ODI innings against top 8 sides were:

ash 100 against AUS
ash 94 against ENG
ash 87 against SA
Rajin 82 against IND
Rajin 71 against PAK
SN 75 against AUS
pilot 71 vs AUS
JO 81 vs AUS (or ENG)

in other words we had 6 innings of 70+ runs in aprox 50 games during whatmore era, with half of the innings being eid al ashrafs. the pilot and JO innings were far to slow to warrant any match winning potential, whereas even rajin's 71 was rapid enough to have possibly won a match. thats too much dependence on one player, and that can't be good.

in siddons era, we have 13 matches against top 8 sides:

ash 70 vs NZ
tamim 82 vs SA
sakib 75 vs PAK
sakib 108 vs PAK
Raqib 89 vs IND

we already have 5 70+ inninngs in just 13 matches...JS seems to be working the individual, and thats the only way we can have a decent team. plus ash has only one of those 5 significant innings.

+
raqibul 70+ against south africa
ash 56 vs pakistan (alltough it was a very slow inings) but a 50 is a 50

BANFAN
June 22, 2008, 01:01 PM
I have read and written many times on JS. Every time he makes a new statement it only confirms my point of view. Question is not how many months/years, question is; is his approach right? If his approach is right, I’m ready to give him any amount of time.

1. What do you achieve by making the players believe that, they are not capable of competing against the top teams? Isn’t it damaging their confidence and desire to win? Is he not using it as a reason for not performing?

2. Our bowlers are not tall. Though this isn’t all true and in sub-continental standard this issue is there in all countries. What do you achieve by telling it? How can you change the height of the Bangladeshi people? Genetic Engineering? Isn’t he using it as a reason not performing?

3. Our domestic infrastructure is not good. If he has some advice, that should be told to BCB in close doors. Isn’t he publicly using it as a reason for not performing?

4. About 200+ scores, if we analyze each match, we will see that the 200+ scores were never made under pressure of winning or losing. The matches were lost much before. What’s the value of these 200 scores? Isn’t he trying to highlight his achievement unjustly?

5. Individual high scores made before by BD batsmen mostly lead to victory. The scores made by our batters during his time were mostly under no pressure for losing causes. Doesn’t he understand that? Then why he is using it to highlight his achievement?

6. The way he is throwing away our previous victories against test teams, while he is not having a single one, on the other hand highlighting insignificant (To the outcome of match)individual and 200+ team scores on the other hand, is bound to raise questions on his honesty of purpose.

7. He never gives a definite time frame for improvement, may be 6 months +/- would be acceptable. His time line is very tentative and ranges even up to 4/5 years. If he has taken up a contract of two years, he should have had some objective to be achieved in two years, but we have never heard anything like that.
Every BD fan wants our team to do better, win some matches. Be it under JS or any one, we care less. But his words and actions so far, definitely has not given any hope or sign of improvement. Rather lots of his policies and actions were proven to be highly damaging.

How can one say that he is doing it right? Gambling blindly might be rewarding at times, but it can be fatal as well. If giving more time means more damage, why should we give him more time? Just because, it might look bad to remove a coach in 8 months time? I don’t agree to such ‘Pache loke ki bole’ type decisions at the cost of the future of our cricket.

I am yet to see a day, when JS is positive of our cricket. There are many problems but definitely we have a lot of strengths too. A good coach will work on the weaknesses and capitalize on strength. As WM has done. JS is only publicizing our weaknesses and we are losing a lot of positives like bowling, fielding, desire to win, Aggressive attitude etc.

I am yet to see a ray of hope under JS? His interview reminds me of both Khaleda’s ‘Unnoyoner Joar’ type boktreta and hasina’s ‘Gorib Marar budget’. His comments sound like routine and cheap way of criticizing everything of BD cricket’s past/present and highlighting nothings of his own as great achievements.

Unfortunately, today we are even doubtful about winning against UAE.

abdulmukit
June 22, 2008, 01:15 PM
Al, . why 70? why not 100 or 50?

Let's take how many 50's our top 3 batsmen scored against top 8 teams during Whatmore era ---

Aftab
51 against England
67 against India
59 against West Indies

Ash
66 against Sri Lanka
100 against Australia
94 against England
58 against Australia
51 against Sri Lanka
61 against Sri Lanka
87 against South Africa

Sakib
67 against Sri Lanka
53 against India
50 against India
57 against England

Just three players and we have 14 50+ innings against top teams, if we include all batsmen it would be about 30 to 40 50+ innings.

miraz bhai JS only took over the job in november last year (which is only 7 months) and we allready have 7 fifty+ innings against top 8 teams in just 13 match.

its true, our batsman had 30 to 40 50+ innigs during watmore era but dont forget watmore were in charge with the team for a long 4 years.
most of thoes 50+ innings were EID al ashraf as al furqan bhai allready mentioned.
batsman used to think the job is done when they scored a fifty n soon after they used to trhow/gift their wicket away but now we see batsman are eager to stay at the wicket for long time.
the biggest example of that is, sakibul century against pakistan, raqibul 89 agains india in kitply cup (he couldve turn that into a hundred) and tamims 80+ innings against south africa.

Pundit
June 22, 2008, 01:18 PM
New Coach
New Selectors
New Players (some)

= lack of belief in players
= lack in trust in fans
= lack of consistancy among selectors
= lack of direction from coach

I think Rafiq highlighted this on day 1: they liked Siddons because of his feedback.

Fans may know the truth already, but Siddons will do the talk to identify how to overcome issues.

Whatmore came in after the Mashud debacle - so initial expectations were very low.
Siddons came in after the WC, so its a little different.

Miraz
June 22, 2008, 01:28 PM
BANFAN, that's a top post.

Couldn't agree more.

BANFAN
June 22, 2008, 01:28 PM
miraz bhai JS only took over the job in november last year (which is only 7 months) and we allready have 7 fifty+ innings against top 8 teams in just 13 match.


Where, most of the matches were lost much before the matches were over. Specially 5 in pak and 2 in tri series. I won't count it at all. Had they been trying to win, many of these couldn't have been 50s. 50 at the cost of losing is never appreciated anywhere is the world. Even in Aus. Why should it be in BD?

cricket_dorshok
June 22, 2008, 01:35 PM
I am happy the way JS is working.
We used to play 'jodi laigga jai' type cricket. Now, JS is trying us to play the cricket the way it should be. With all due respect Whatmore couldn't change the mode of jodi laigga jai. Thats why we were very inconsistent. Almost everyone got to reach the conclusion that Ash is not coachable. Whatmore sometimes even stopped talking to him. But JS has proved that that he can really teach cricket (yes even to Ash).

abdulmukit
June 22, 2008, 01:51 PM
Where, most of the matches were lost much before the matches were over. Specially 5 in pak and 2 in tri series. I won't count it at all. Had they been trying to win, many of these couldn't have been 50s. 50 at the cost of losing is never appreciated anywhere is the world. Even in Aus. Why should it be in BD?

i thought we were highlighting individual performance not team performance?

Dhurr
June 22, 2008, 02:01 PM
Bhaijan ra, ekta golpo boli.

Let's say you are an assistant manager for the best firm in the industry, with a really really low chance of becoming the manager. You make ok money, you have to work hard, you get hardly any vacation.

Then the worst firm in the industry comes to you with an offer to become their manager. They offer you 3 times the salary you were making in your job, they offer you vacation time (2 months after every month of work), and since they offer you the manager position, you have absolute power.

What will you do? Stay as the assistant manager or choose the manager position? Many people will choose the second option, to become a manager.


Now that you have become manager and you are taking your long vacations and saving all that extra cash the new firm is paying you, you also realize that you are the face of the firm. People are blaming you for their status; they are at the bottom of the pile. You know you don't have the necessary business acumen to turn them around. Now I ask you: what do you do in this situation?

If you had the business acumen, you would turn things around, but you don't.
If you can't turn things around, then what is the easiest way to get out of this GERAKOL? You do what BD politicians do. You blame the last administration. You make up statistics and say how bad it was under the previous management. You say you are dealt a bad hand. You lower ALL expectations about the firm's performance. Initially, the stock price will take a hit. It will go lower and lower and lower until it can't get any lower. You blame the previous management for this low stock price.

Then you show your "magic". You say you have targets, you have goals. You tell everyone you have no magic wand to turn things around in one day, and you need more time to reach your goals and targets. Despite your horrible management skills, the firm will slowly but surely get back to 80% of its production level under the previous management. The stock price will climb too to 80% of where it used to be. By this time, your contract is over, and you tell everyone how this HUGE climb is because of you and your goal-setting and your amazing management skills. This when the reality is that you made the firm go to their absolute lowest and all you did was let it pull itself back up to 80% under previous management. The smart people will know that you are a bad manager. The not-so-smart people will be fooled. Then one of these not-so-smart people who is looking for a manager in his not-so-good firm (better than your current firm, but not the best) will hire you as a manager.


This is what happens in the business world. This is what happens in politics. In my opinion, this is what is happening with Siddons bhaiya. Onar jokhon contract shesh hoye jabe, tokhon amar ei post ta abar poiren. Tarpore dekhben bhul bolsi na thik bolsi.

Eshen
June 22, 2008, 02:54 PM
I consider the golden period under Whatmore is the 2004 home series against India to the 2007 home series against the same opponent. In this period, we had played 29 ODIs against elite 8 teams. We did not have to cross 200 in our last win against India as we had chased 192. In other 28 matches, 14 times we had crossed 200, exactly the 50% of matches. More importantly, we had won 5 of those 29 matches.

http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/team/25.html?class=2;opposition=1;opposition=2;oppositi on=3;opposition=4;opposition=5;opposition=6;opposi tion=7;opposition=8;spanmax1=31+May+2007;spanmin1= 01+Dec+2004;spanval1=span;template=results;type=te am;view=innings

Under Siddons, so far we have played 13 ODIs against elite 8, and scored 200+ in 5 matches (had not won any of those matches), that's 38.46%. It's not 50% even if you include the Ireland series.

http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/team/25.html?class=2;opposition=1;opposition=2;oppositi on=3;opposition=4;opposition=5;opposition=6;opposi tion=7;opposition=8;spanmin2=01+Nov+2007;spanval2= span;template=results;type=team;view=innings

Siddons obviously had not checked facts before making that '50%' claim, and needless to say he is making himself looking ridiculous.

al Furqaan
June 22, 2008, 04:16 PM
I consider the golden period under Whatmore is the 2004 home series against India to the 2007 home series against the same opponent. In this period, we had played 29 ODIs against elite 8 teams. We did not have to cross 200 in our last win against India as we had chased 192. In other 28 matches, 14 times we had crossed 200, exactly the 50% of matches. More importantly, we had won 5 of those 29 matches.

http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/team/25.html?class=2;opposition=1;opposition=2;oppositi on=3;opposition=4;opposition=5;opposition=6;opposi tion=7;opposition=8;spanmax1=31+May+2007;spanmin1= 01+Dec+2004;spanval1=span;template=results;type=te am;view=innings

Under Siddons, so far we have played 13 ODIs against elite 8, and scored 200+ in 5 matches (had not won any of those matches), that's 38.46%. It's not 50% even if you include the Ireland series.

http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/team/25.html?class=2;opposition=1;opposition=2;oppositi on=3;opposition=4;opposition=5;opposition=6;opposi tion=7;opposition=8;spanmin2=01+Nov+2007;spanval2= span;template=results;type=team;view=innings

Siddons obviously had not checked facts before making that '50%' claim, and needless to say he is making himself looking ridiculous.

it would have been 6 200+ innings since JS took over (we had 180 in 45 overs or so against NZ before rain interuppted). and should we cross 200 against SL, that makes 7/14 which is exactly 50%.

if you include ireland series, we have 8 200+ scores out of 16 matches which is again 50%.

lets wait 6 months with JS current strategy and see where it takes us. the retirement of rafiq, the absence of rasel, and the out of form razzak has killed our bowling thereby magnifying the gap between us and the great 8 teams. lets see what happens in 6 months. if by the new year we are were are now, i am all for kicking JS out on the first thing smoking to sydney.

Miraz
June 22, 2008, 04:31 PM
it would have been 6 200+ innings since JS took over (we had 180 in 45 overs or so against NZ before rain interuppted). and should we cross 200 against SL, that makes 7/14 which is exactly 50%.
.

al, had we scored 150 more runs in each of the matches, we would have won all the matches. That makes 13 win out of 13 matches and that's 100% success rate. WTG Siddons. :)

On a more serious note, have we created any winning chances on those matches?

The answer is a BIG NO and that you can't ignore.

Russell2k7
June 22, 2008, 04:33 PM
What JS means is that our past stats were all fluke. Now, is the real deal. Under other coaches none of our batsman knew how to bat properly. They just got lucky hitting the ball blindly. TI was completely blind hitter before. Now, a class player so far.

Eshen
June 22, 2008, 04:37 PM
Siddons was not shy to point out all the weaknesses of Bangladesh cricket in his interview, but the worrying factor is that there is no mention of how indisciplined our bowlers have become since he took over. Has he even noticed the problem ???

Batting is never our forte, it's our bowlers who kept us competitive in ODI cricket all those years. If they stay as indisciplined as they are now, it won't matter whether we are scoring 200+ or 250+.

Foozy
June 22, 2008, 05:37 PM
A lot of people are complaining about why he is giving too many excuses. think about it and ull see that its us who wait for him to get interviewed, and us who want answers and reasons. So there u hav the reason for his excuses!

About his ways, although I have a lot of doubts in his ways many a times, his gradual improvement thing is quite a good idea and its not about "random wins" as with DW.
If we consistently score higher and higher, and our averages go higher and higher, and our players learn to play good innings, we will hopefully get where we want to sooner rather than later. "Random wins" will do us no good.

Some people are talking about how he should be teaching lower age groups, but hey... in that case we would have to deal with more "random wins" for a longer period of time... and taht would only mean waiting for eidul ashraf. basically it would be a waste of the talents of Ash and company (who still have their whole lives ahead of them)... and we would be relying on the next generation of players.

Basically if he can translate these into wins within the near future, he is a really successful coach :).... if not... we are gonna be in big trouble.... its a gamble really

Our bowling needs to take an about turn and go back to how it was before. ... atleast for odis.... only then we can think about wins.

PS. 250 was always a cap limit for us, and anything above 250 and our team would take it as a "lost match"... thats how it always was...
so with a regular score of around 240... (which will be pulled higher up eventually... hopefully...) we are bound to get some wins our way (assuming the bowling can go back to how it was).... i hope it comes around soon...:)

g'luck bd and g'luck jamie siddons

Blah
June 22, 2008, 05:45 PM
Everyone is pulling statistics from their arses. :) (including siddons)
While the stats itself are accurate, they are as good as nothing. Stats are only relevant when the error margin is low, and error margin can be low only when the stats are taking from a vast pool of numbers.

You can't average from 10 games and say, "look soddons is crap" compare to 50+ games under whatmore over the course of 4 years. That doesn't make any sense, whatsoever. Because the players are not the same, the conditions are not the same. Resulting in a huge error margin, with garbage stats and numbers.

The only way to compare siddons performance with Whatmore performance, would be to take the first 7 months of games under siddons and whatmore minus the games against non-test playing nation. And than compare it to make any sense.

Not that it would make any sense, because the game numbers are too low; but you guys are too stubborn to understand that.

Whatmore won 5 games against test playing nations over the course of 4 fracking years (I hope you are not counting wins over zimbabwe). That's his only shinning moment of his career with bangladesh. So remember that before start critisizing siddons on the teams performace in the last 7 months.

I have always said whatmore was a failure with bangladesh (I know you guys will disagree), but when srilanka will not renew it's contract with the same coach who made them world champions. Or when no one else wants to take whatmore as a coach when he left bangladesh, and there were four spots open in the international team coaching market. Because everyone sees the failure of whatmore with bangladesh team, except for us. I dont want siddons to follow whatmores footstep, thats why I am glad that he is taking differant approach in coaching the team.

al Furqaan
June 22, 2008, 06:17 PM
Al, . why 70? why not 100 or 50?

Let's take how many 50's our top 3 batsmen scored against top 8 teams during Whatmore era ---

Aftab
51 against England
67 against India
59 against West Indies

Ash
66 against Sri Lanka
100 against Australia
94 against England
58 against Australia
51 against Sri Lanka
61 against Sri Lanka
87 against South Africa

Sakib
67 against Sri Lanka
53 against India
50 against India
57 against England

Just three players and we have 14 50+ innings against top teams, if we include all batsmen it would be about 30 to 40 50+ innings.

...proving that 50s are a dime a dozen even to bangladeshi batsmen. are we that impressed when one of our batsmen hits a 50 against a top 8 side? not at all. and 100s are too rare. hence we go somewhere in between. 70, 75 its an arbitrary pick, and i even mentioned its arbitrariness. if i chose 50, some one would just come along and ask why i didn't pick 53 or something...

the problem with many of your 50s is that, they were merely 50ish scores which are again a dime a dozen. its not that glamorous either in the context of cricket or of bangladesh cricket. bigger scores are. and our batsmen have a notorious inability to push 70 runs and beyond. hence that arbitrary cutoff.

all i am saying is that we've hired siddons, and that might turn out to be the worst personnel move in our history. but lets give him some time to sort things through, he is after all inheriting the worst team to play Test cricket ever. and his charges aren't the smartest bunch around. if after another 6 months, we see ashraful averaging 23 and 25 and no improvement in the bowling front, we can conclude that siddons has psychologically wrecked the team and needs to be eliminated. the situation can't get any worse than it is already, so lets see if the current method works before axing JS.

Baundule
June 22, 2008, 06:18 PM
Bhaijan ra, ekta golpo boli.

Let's say you are an assistant manager for the best firm in the industry, with a really really low chance of becoming the manager. You make ok money, you have to work hard, you get hardly any vacation.

Then the worst firm in the industry comes to you with an offer to become their manager. They offer you 3 times the salary you were making in your job, they offer you vacation time (2 months after every month of work), and since they offer you the manager position, you have absolute power.

What will you do? Stay as the assistant manager or choose the manager position? Many people will choose the second option, to become a manager.


Now that you have become manager and you are taking your long vacations and saving all that extra cash the new firm is paying you, you also realize that you are the face of the firm. People are blaming you for their status; they are at the bottom of the pile. You know you don't have the necessary business acumen to turn them around. Now I ask you: what do you do in this situation?

If you had the business acumen, you would turn things around, but you don't.
If you can't turn things around, then what is the easiest way to get out of this GERAKOL? You do what BD politicians do. You blame the last administration. You make up statistics and say how bad it was under the previous management. You say you are dealt a bad hand. You lower ALL expectations about the firm's performance. Initially, the stock price will take a hit. It will go lower and lower and lower until it can't get any lower. You blame the previous management for this low stock price.

Then you show your "magic". You say you have targets, you have goals. You tell everyone you have no magic wand to turn things around in one day, and you need more time to reach your goals and targets. Despite your horrible management skills, the firm will slowly but surely get back to 80% of its production level under the previous management. The stock price will climb too to 80% of where it used to be. By this time, your contract is over, and you tell everyone how this HUGE climb is because of you and your goal-setting and your amazing management skills. This when the reality is that you made the firm go to their absolute lowest and all you did was let it pull itself back up to 80% under previous management. The smart people will know that you are a bad manager. The not-so-smart people will be fooled. Then one of these not-so-smart people who is looking for a manager in his not-so-good firm (better than your current firm, but not the best) will hire you as a manager.


This is what happens in the business world. This is what happens in politics. In my opinion, this is what is happening with Siddons bhaiya. Onar jokhon contract shesh hoye jabe, tokhon amar ei post ta abar poiren. Tarpore dekhben bhul bolsi na thik bolsi.

I mentioned it in my previous post and you have described it perfectly with the appropriate example. These guys know how to fool us. And I have no doubt that we are heading towards the low.

I am not a big fan of DW. He failed to build a good captain, though a captain usually has to be a by-born entity having the leadership quality with the ability to think dynamically. But he was successful in developing some confidence in the players. That means, we were no longer afraid of the big names. When he took change, we were in a state of losing regularly against Zim or Kenya.

The people who are trying to say all our wins against big teams are 'jhore bok', they have not seen the win against Australia for sure. It was a professional run chage from HaBa, Ashfool and then Aftab. HaBa was playing very sensibly keeping the asking rate within the reach. JS can behave politically. But I am surprised to see that even some BC members are on the whim to call all such achievements as flukes.

al Furqaan
June 22, 2008, 06:21 PM
I mentioned it in my previous post and you have described it perfectly with the appropriate example. These guys know how to fool us. And I have no doubt that we are heading towards the low.

I am not a big fan of DW. He failed to build a good captain, though a captain usually has to be a by-born entity having the leadership quality with the ability to think dynamically. But he was successful in developing some confidence in the players. That means, we were no longer afraid of the big names. When he took change, we were in a state of losing regularly against Zim or Kenya.

The people who are trying to say all our wins against big teams are 'jhore bok', they have not seen the win against Australia for sure. It was a professional run chage from HaBa, Ashfool and then Aftab. HaBa was playing very sensibly keeping the asking rate within the reach. JS can behave politically. But I am surprised to see that even some BC members are on the whim to call all such achievements as flukes.

obviously chance won't win games against great 8 teams. but those wins were flukes in the sense that we can only pull them off once every 15 matches or so.

blah made a good point, at this point in his tenure, DW had yet to win a match. in fact, our ODI team was routinley scoring sub 180 scores. of course that team had much less talent than our current bunch. but we will have been without aftab and sakib for 7 matches on the trot come end of asia cup.

bottom line is DW won just 1 game (against a strong zimbabwe side) in his first 18+ months. JS needs at least 12 months to accurately gauge his contribution.

Miraz
June 22, 2008, 06:31 PM
Everyone is pulling statistics from their arses. :) (including siddons)
While the stats itself are accurate, they are as good as nothing. Stats are only relevant when the error margin is low, and error margin can be low only when the stats are taking from a vast pool of numbers.

You can't average from 10 games and say, "look soddons is crap" compare to 50+ games under whatmore over the course of 4 years. That doesn't make any sense, whatsoever. Because the players are not the same, the conditions are not the same. Resulting in a huge error margin, with garbage stats and numbers.

The only way to compare siddons performance with Whatmore performance, would be to take the first 7 months of games under siddons and whatmore minus the games against non-test playing nation. And than compare it to make any sense.

Not that it would make any sense, because the game numbers are too low; but you guys are too stubborn to understand that.

Whatmore won 5 games against test playing nations over the course of 4 fracking years (I hope you are not counting wins over zimbabwe). That's his only shinning moment of his career with bangladesh. So remember that before start critisizing siddons on the teams performace in the last 7 months.

I have always said whatmore was a failure with bangladesh (I know you guys will disagree), but when srilanka will not renew it's contract with the same coach who made them world champions. Or when no one else wants to take whatmore as a coach when he left bangladesh, and there were four spots open in the international team coaching market. Because everyone sees the failure of whatmore with bangladesh team, except for us. I dont want siddons to follow whatmores footstep, thats why I am glad that he is taking differant approach in coaching the team.



And Blah, you think Bangladesh team in June 2003 and August 2007 are essentially the same team??

Oh Yeah!! there is hardly any difference between Bangladesh's performance in world cup 2003 and world cup 2007.

Very well said. huh!

Eshen
June 22, 2008, 06:36 PM
obviously chance won't win games against great 8 teams. but those wins were flukes in the sense that we can only pull them off once every 15 matches or so.
You probably missed my previous post, we had 5 ODI wins against elite 8 teams in space of 29 ODIs, that's roughly 1 win in every 6 matches.

http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/team/25.html?class=2;opposition=1;opposition=2;oppositi on=3;opposition=4;opposition=5;opposition=6;opposi tion=7;opposition=8;spanmax1=31+May+2007;spanmin1= 01+Dec+2004;spanval1=span;template=results;type=te am;view=innings

You may ask why I am disregarding the first year and half of Whatmore period, the answer is simple - although we had two-three decent players in the team back then, we had not found a good core of players until the end of 2004. In case of Siddons, he is handed a good core of players from the very beginning.

Blah
June 22, 2008, 06:42 PM
And Blah, you think Bangladesh team in June 2003 and August 2007 are essentially the same team??

Oh Yeah!! there is hardly any difference between Bangladesh's performance in world cup 2003 and world cup 2007.

Very well said. huh!


See, the funny thing about qoutes is that you can't have selective qoutes and take them out of context to make a point. To understand the point, you have to read the whole qoute + read what was written before the qoute + read what was written after the qoute.

To better understand what I said read before and after that qoute :


You can't average from 10 games and say, "look soddons is crap" compare to 50+ games under whatmore over the course of 4 years. That doesn't make any sense, whatsoever. Because the players are not the same, the conditions are not the same. Resulting in a huge error margin, with garbage stats and numbers.

The only way to compare siddons performance with Whatmore performance, would be to take the first 7 months of games under siddons and whatmore minus the games against non-test playing nation. And than compare it to make any sense.

Not that it would make any sense, because the game numbers are too low; but you guys are too stubborn to understand that.




Taking qoutes out of context only proves your lack of understanding and being open to others arguments; NOT my ability to make a point.

nsd3
June 22, 2008, 06:43 PM
Scoring 200 runs cannot be considered as consistent performance when the opponents are scoring 300+.
I understood scoring 200+ was meant consistent from Bangladesh's point of view. Sudden rush of blood while taking shots, getting out unnecessarily when the team is in trouble - all these made our score end before 200 before. If we see that we are more often scoring 200+ that's a plus for now. Next target should be to take this 200 to 240 - 250 and so on. Then we should be able to compete hard against stronger opponents.

First thing first and scoring 200+ consistently is rightly considered consistent performance, I believe.

Miraz
June 22, 2008, 06:44 PM
Alright Blah, I have edited my post and quoted your whole post. It's hardly making any difference.

Baundule
June 22, 2008, 06:49 PM
obviously chance won't win games against great 8 teams. but those wins were flukes in the sense that we can only pull them off once every 15 matches or so.

I never know that inconsistency = fluke. So, it is like "you have lost today, implies the other day your win was fluke, no matter how professionaly you played the other day.":-D

blah made a good point, at this point in his tenure, DW had yet to win a match. in fact, our ODI team was routinley scoring sub 180 scores. of course that team had much less talent than our current bunch. but we will have been without aftab and sakib for 7 matches on the trot come end of asia cup.

bottom line is DW won just 1 game (against a strong zimbabwe side) in his first 18+ months. JS needs at least 12 months to accurately gauge his contribution.

See, development is a continuous process. A new coach does not mean that he has to start from the scratch. Rather, he has to re-use the existing development as much as possible.

Blindly giving him 1 year to do this and that and then judge - this is a problem with our way of thinking. Give the CTG 2 years unconditionally, give the JS 1 year unconditionally. Untill then, we can not talk about his procedures, even those are going towards the wrong direction!

I do not like to compare DW much with JS. There is no comparison at all. Whatmore got a team that were losing routinely against the likes of Kenya, Zimbabwe etc. When he left, that team had the confidence of beating the likes of India, Aus, SA. We had a very competitive series in WI. We were no longer overawed of the big names.

JS had to take that confidence of the team and then work on the inconsistency thing. It does not mean that he had to first destroy that positive.

And one more important thing, the overall players' quality does get gradually better in a developing cricket nation. The input of new players with better quality has nothing to do with the national team coach. Our U-19 team was fighting head-to-head against any other team and the likes of Nirala, Sakib, Tamim, Dollar are just a product of that process. JS has nothing to do with that. Well, I will give him all the credit if he can make Ashraful a consistent match winner. In his two matches that he played in the Kitply, JS made him consistent; but a match-loser.

Blah
June 22, 2008, 06:52 PM
You probably missed my previous post, we had 5 ODI wins against elite 8 teams in space of 29 ODIs, that's roughly 1 win in every 6 matches.

http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/team/25.html?class=2;opposition=1;opposition=2;oppositi on=3;opposition=4;opposition=5;opposition=6;opposi tion=7;opposition=8;spanmax1=31+May+2007;spanmin1= 01+Dec+2004;spanval1=span;template=results;type=te am;view=innings

You may ask why I am disregarding the first year and half of Whatmore period, the answer is simple - although we had two-three decent players in the team back then, we had not found a good core of players until the end of 2004. In case of Siddons, he is handed a good core of players from the very beginning.

That's your assesment of a good player. But if they don't perform in games, where it matters, can you actually call them good players? Calling them "good players" is a relative term, it's only a fact if they actually perform.

Who are you calling a core of good players?
These people suck at playing cricket, that why we are loose games. Whats wrong with you?

They are not "good players" in any extend of imagination. More than 90% avg less than 30, Only one player gets called up for IPL; thats what they think about our good players. None of the players in the current corp will even get chance to play for any other team inthe world, if they begged their life for it. They don't even get a callup to play for english country premier league.

What good players?

Miraz
June 22, 2008, 07:05 PM
That's your assesment of a good player. But if they don't perform in games, where it matters, can you actually call them good players? Calling them "good players" is a relative term, it's only a fact if they actually perform.

Who are you calling a core of good players?
These people suck at playing cricket, that why we are loose games. Whats wrong with you?

They are not "good players" in any extend of imagination. More than 90% avg less than 30, Only one player gets called up for IPL; thats what they think about our good players. None of the players in the current corp will even get chance to play for any other team inthe world, if they begged their life for it. They don't even get a callup to play for english country premier league.

What good players?

What these core players could have done in another team settings is a completely different proposition. It's not even the point of discussion here.

As Eshen pointed out, these core players in Bangladesh's setting have won 1 matches out of every 6 matches against top 8 teams and have won every other matches against Associates and Zimbabwe.

Siddons started with these bunch of players, and he is failing to get any results. Period.

Blah
June 22, 2008, 07:09 PM
Alright Blah, I have edited my post and quoted your whole post. It's hardly making any difference.

Before the qoute I said:

Because the players are not the same, the conditions are not the same. Resulting in a huge error margin, with garbage stats and numbers.


Which is essentially the same thing as you said:

And Blah, you think Bangladesh team in June 2003 and August 2007 are essentially the same team??


After that I said, which effectively negeting the point of the argument:


Not that it would make any sense, because the game numbers are too low; but you guys are too stubborn to understand that.


In simple words what I am trying to say is that, you can't take first seven months of siddons term and last two years (the best time) of whatmores term and say that siddons screwed up whatever gain whatmores did. Becauese thats bullsh-it.

When you try to compare results you have to have similar numbers and environment, you cant pull numbers from the air, and say siddons did better than whatmore, when the circumstances are differant. Not even counting the FACT that the game numbers are too low to make any judgement.

I can understand that if you don't like how siddons does his coaching, but please dont pull numbers out of air and try to make a point and justify your arguments.

Siddons pull numbers to show gradual increase in overall batting performance. He didn't claim to have won more match.

Eshen
June 22, 2008, 07:21 PM
In simple words what I am trying to say is that, you can't take first seven months of siddons term and last two years (the best time) of whatmores term and say that siddons screwed up whatever gain whatmores did. Becauese thats bullsh-it.

When you try to compare results you have to have similar numbers and environment, you cant pull numbers from the air, and say siddons did better than whatmore, when the circumstances are differant. Not even counting the FACT that the game numbers are too low to make any judgement.

Fair argument, but it's Siddons who is pulling numbers out of air and claiming the team is showing progress comparing to previous periods. According to your logic, it's Siddons himself making him looking ridiculous.

al Furqaan
June 22, 2008, 07:21 PM
You probably missed my previous post, we had 5 ODI wins against elite 8 teams in space of 29 ODIs, that's roughly 1 win in every 6 matches.

http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/team/25.html?class=2;opposition=1;opposition=2;oppositi on=3;opposition=4;opposition=5;opposition=6;opposi tion=7;opposition=8;spanmax1=31+May+2007;spanmin1= 01+Dec+2004;spanval1=span;template=results;type=te am;view=innings

You may ask why I am disregarding the first year and half of Whatmore period, the answer is simple - although we had two-three decent players in the team back then, we had not found a good core of players until the end of 2004. In case of Siddons, he is handed a good core of players from the very beginning.

touche. i didn't realize the ratio was that good. at any rate, i'd ideally like to see that become a 1 win in every 2 games ultimately. for now, we need to get it back to 1 in 6, and then hopefully 1 in 3 or 4.

Blah
June 22, 2008, 07:35 PM
What these core players could have done in another team settings is a completely different proposition. It's not even the point of discussion here.

As Eshen pointed out, these core players in Bangladesh's setting have won 1 matches out of every 6 matches against top 8 teams and have won every other matches against Associates and Zimbabwe.

Siddons started with these bunch of players, and he is failing to get any results. Period.

Okay, let me get along with you for a moment here. Since, you mention this core players so much. The stats that ehsan pointed out was from the last two years of whatmore term. To get along with your argument, I will try to predict the core players that you are reffering to who was with whatmore for the majority of the last two years of his tersm.

Let's see this will be interesting. We have:

Core players:

Rafique
Haba (you know mr. bashar)
Javed Omar
tapash bashiya (he played the games BD won against Aussie and India)
Nazmul hossain ( he was in the games BD won against aussie, india twice)
Rajin Saleh (he was inthe games against, india and srilanka)

I don't know if I should include rasel, since he didnt play most of the games under siddons terms.

So here you go. There are 11 possible players in a cricket team. And 7 of the wordl beating core players that you so brag about is largely absent in siddons team.

So I would like to know, what kind of reasoning that you will to justify the hole in your "core players" argument?

Blah
June 22, 2008, 07:39 PM
Fair argument, but it's Siddons who is pulling numbers out of air and claiming the team is showing progress comparing to previous periods. According to your logic, it's Siddons himself making him looking ridiculous.

Which I already said that his numbers are wrong/unreasonable. But that doesn't justify us claiming that his methods are not working, and it's too early to make the call.

DotBall
June 22, 2008, 08:37 PM
There lies, big lies and then there is statistics. One can spin things differently with statistics. As Siddon mentioned about 25% scores over 200 one fan had shown it was actually more than 39%; but that was over 2 years under Dev. Are we really at 25% over the life of Bangladesh cricket in ODIs? I don't have the stats but I do know that we are very inconsistent and repeat our mistakes over and over.
It takes are a very positive mindset to achieve a greater result but ignoring the building blocks would be very foolish. The way I read Siddon's approach is that he is trying to lay down the blocks. Playing out 50 overs in any given match should be one of our main goal in future matches. This will ensure that we will be competitve. This by no means implies that we will score 240 and will stop scoring any further. According to JS 240 should be our average capability and nothing stops us from scoring higher and winning any match. I am very excited about JS's approach and we will get better and will be able to sustain that. It's time to get of the roller coaster and travel on a steady incline track for some time.

Foozy
June 22, 2008, 08:47 PM
I want to talk just a little bit about the "fluke factor" here....

When siddons came in, yes we would produce 240+ scores "sometimes".... but it would often be the lower end including "the old mash" playing shots. The top order would almost ALWAYS crumble with ducks and below 10 scores. We would often be hoping for the rear end to save our rear.

But after siddons... a lot of the top order are becoming consistent, or atleast starting to...

Ok now some of you will jump on me saying that we still often hope for the rear to save our rear... but this is what siddons was saying that we need to put together our performances, which hasnt really happened yet.

Hey once the top order starts to stay in (regularly), they can start hitting blind strokes like before once they reach a suitable position. As it stands, they never even get to that position...

I hope he can get his mission under way soon...

Foozy
June 22, 2008, 08:49 PM
There lies, big lies and then there is statistics. One can spin things differently with statistics. As Siddon mentioned about 25% scores over 200 one fan had shown it was actually more than 39%; but that was over 2 years under Dev. Are we really at 25% over the life of Bangladesh cricket in ODIs? I don't have the stats but I do know that we are very inconsistent and repeat our mistakes over and over.
It takes are a very positive mindset to achieve a greater result but ignoring the building blocks would be very foolish. The way I read Siddon's approach is that he is trying to lay down the blocks. Playing out 50 overs in any given match should be one of our main goal in future matches. This will ensure that we will be competitve. This by no means implies that we will score 240 and will stop scoring any further. According to JS 240 should be our average capability and nothing stops us from scoring higher and winning any match. I am very excited about JS's approach and we will get better and will be able to sustain that. It's time to get of the roller coaster and travel on a steady incline track for some time.
I am feeling similarly...

Gowza
June 22, 2008, 09:45 PM
- The reason in the whatmore era BD beat minnows has a lot to do with the talent becaming better in BD, it wasn’t all whatmore's doing. and this better quality of talent is what is allowing siddons to implement the method he's currently implementing. siddons knows the players can play big shots, but he needs them to learn another side of the game to be a competitive team, the big shots are useful but at times you need to graft, grind and build. BD players need to learn to analyse/asses the game as it's played and react appropriately (sometimes this will mean hitting out and others it will mean hold down an end or it might mean play an aggressive innings but in a safe manner). not to say being proactive isn't a good thing either but that too needs to be calculated and implemented well, don't be proactive if your not going to back it 100% and don't do things that you don't think you can pull off.

- As i've said from the beginning real results from Siddons changes likely won’t show for about a year from when he started coaching the team. things should be starting to work from about now, but the full effect likely won't be seen for another few months.

- In ODIs under Siddons we already have 19 50+ scores in ODIs. 13 against top 8 teams, whatmore got what, 30-40 in 4 years against top 8 teams? siddons has 13 in 7 months, now that will probably be higher after the next 5 months (which will be a full year for siddons), if you just take the 50+ scores under siddons for the 7 months and x by 4 (whatmores no. of years coaching the BD team) it comes out to 52 which is already more than the 30-40 said BD got under whatmores 4 years. so if we wait 5 months, then multiply all the 50+ scores from ODIs it will be even higher than that 52, so siddons is on track to beat whatmores no. of 50+ scores against top 8 teams (he might even do it by the end of his 2 years as opposed to whatmores 4 years) if things keep going like they are). obviously there is no guarantee it will happen but so far the 50+ scores against top 8 teams are rolling in pretty nicely (by BD standards) under siddons.

- Siddons isn’t saying the players don’t have the talent, by saying they’re not good enough to compete atm he’s possibly trying to motivate them to improve and prove him wrong. at this point they have the talent but not the skills.

- Maybe siddons is talking to the bcb behind closed doors about the domestic infrastructure, someone earlier mentioned he should be doing this, fact is we don't know what he's saying to the bcb behind clsoed doors.

- It’s impossible to give a time frame for improvement as at least half of the effort if not more is up to the players, it depends on how quickly they catch on. i disagree that there have been no signs of improvement as the team has scored 2 of the top 3 highest ever ODI scores by BD and one of them is the highest ever against a top 8 side which is 280+, certainly an improvment on the previous record of 265. individual improvement (which has been occurring with the batsmen) will eventually lead to team improvement. If you get individual players consistent then eventually players will start performing on the same day. If they perform inconsistently like they were before siddons came along then it’s just a fluke that they perform on the same day, whereas the more consistent they are (siddons goal) the more likely more than one player will fire on the same day which is what you need to win matches consistently at this level.

- JS has been positive with this article, he was previously saying just aim for 200+, now he’s saying 240+. why would he say that unless he thinks the players are improving? the fact that he's now upping the target is something positive.

- The goal of Siddons is to change cricket mentality in the BD national team (which will hopefully lead to a change in the lower levels), even if the team doesn’t get back up to it’s previous level in Siddons 2 years it will be a good base to build on. Whereas what Siddons started with was a poor base to build on, if BD had a good base these sort of changes wouldn't be needed because they'd already be there.

- there's all this talk about the 50+ scores under siddons not really counting because the team isn't trying to win, that's completely bogus, has siddons specifically said that he's told the players not to try and win the matches they've played? as far as i'm aware he's just said wins don't matter atm, my interpretation of that is that he's just saying don't worry about winning or losing, i don't believe he means it in a way which is saying don't try to win. if the the latter is the case then i would be completely against that philosphy. the reason the 50+ scores under siddons haven't been match winning scores is because the players are learning to play a different way and it's going to take time for them to get use to it and get good at it. siddons is trying to teach them to play a better way, a way which will result in more consistency and more skills, the previous method worked on occassion but it was so risky (and narrow in the skills department) that high consistency was unlikely to ever come. siddons method has a much greater chance of bringing consistency and skills and consistency plus skills equals wins.

- whoever mentioned siddons lack of mentioning the bowling brings up a good point, JS is always talking about the batting and rarely the bowling which for me is a bit of a worry. but in regards to the bowling getting worse isn't there supposed to be a fast bowling coach? what are they doing to rectify the situation?

- personally i think the current lack of results are worthwhile if this works in the long run and i think this has a good chance of working in the long run. i guess if you think the method won't work in the long run then yeah you'd be upset, but the old method wasn't working either so continuing with that method is also pointless.

at the end of the day i think siddons is a better batting coach than head coach, i think having someone like whatmore as head coach with siddons as a batting coach would have brought improvement quicker than the way it's currently going.

Foozy
June 22, 2008, 10:22 PM
-
at the end of the day i think siddons is a better batting coach than head coach, i think having someone like whatmore as head coach with siddons as a batting coach would have brought improvement quicker than the way it's currently going.

now that my friend is somethin that i strongly agree with!:)

Eshen
June 22, 2008, 10:32 PM
- whoever mentioned siddons lack of mentioning the bowling brings up a good point, JS is always talking about the batting and rarely the bowling which for me is a bit of a worry. but in regards to the bowling getting worse isn't there supposed to be a fast bowling coach? what are they doing to rectify the situation?
Sarwar Imran has been appointed as the bowling coach for the Asia Cup. I would be happier if Ramanayake, who is currently working with academy pacers, has been given this job.
at the end of the day i think siddons is a better batting coach than head coach, i think having someone like whatmore as head coach with siddons as a batting coach would have brought improvement quicker than the way it's currently going.
That would be an excellent solution for our team. I think it won't be bad either to appoint Aminul Islam or Khaled Mahmud as the team manager (who will be the head of the team management, not just a manager who will take care logistical issues) and have Siddons and Ramanayake work under him as specialist coaches.

Foozy
June 22, 2008, 11:06 PM
Sarwar Imran has been appointed as the bowling coach for the Asia Cup. I would be happier if Ramanayake, who is currently working with academy pacers, has been given this job.

That would be an excellent solution for our team. I think it won't be bad either to appoint Aminul Islam or Khaled Mahmud as the team manager (who will be the head of the team management, not just a manager who will take care logistical issues) and have Siddons and Ramanayake work under him as specialist coaches.

Aminul Islam in my opinion would be a good choice, but the problem with such people is that its easy to bring them into the scene, but once they are in... wheather they are good or bad, it will be next to impossible to get them out....

yaseer
June 22, 2008, 11:15 PM
I am happy the way JS is working.
We used to play 'jodi laigga jai' type cricket. Now, JS is trying us to play the cricket the way it should be. With all due respect Whatmore couldn't change the mode of jodi laigga jai. Thats why we were very inconsistent. Almost everyone got to reach the conclusion that Ash is not coachable. Whatmore sometimes even stopped talking to him. But JS has proved that that he can really teach cricket (yes even to Ash).

Agreed...

The facts JS is presenting is true....we have to accept it.....and try to play proper cricket......develop the proper cricekting culture....proper way of approaching cricket......i dont mind loosing for 1 more year....if i find players of current side and more importantly whole of BD cricekters learns how to play proper/basic cricket and develops a culture of it all over BD. This will create a base of cricekting culture what every other top side have in them.

yaseer
June 22, 2008, 11:29 PM
It's not that JS is the first man who understood our problems, he is the first man who is highlighting the problems to cover-up his failures.


That is very impotant....closing your eyes after knowing the problem will not solve it...1st you have to accept that there lies a problem....identify it, accept it and work for it.

Beacuse of lack of cricekting knowledhe we are a very vulnarable side....If JS achieves to create a basic among the cricketers that will make a foundation for years to come. When our batsmen will approach correctly.....our side will look like scoring 200/2220+ all the time...like others top teams always look like....

When we look to other top teams....we have the percertion that - "if they can't score 200+, it's an accident".....do others have same perception on us?? JS is trying to create it......and it can only be created if we learn to play proper cricket.....so I dont put off JS as he is targetting 200+.....i will accept it if i find we have developed and learn to play proper cricket....in the long run only this can make us consistent and establish ourselves in cricket world.

yaseer
June 22, 2008, 11:40 PM
1. What do you achieve by making the players believe that, they are not capable of competing against the top teams? Isn’t it damaging their confidence and desire to win? Is he not using it as a reason for not performing?


Reallity check is important.....like Ash needs to accept the fact that Aussie tail averages 20....so, if he wants to be called a suucessfull international batsman how hard he needs to work....how consistently he needs to bat. Guts is important here...if you are gutsy enough....true facts doesnt harm your confidence....if you are not gutsy....then international cricket is not for u.

This message goes to every other domestic cricekters as well who wants to play for BD....what to aim for...how hard needs to work in the nets....also message goes to officials.....how hard they need to work to produce/develop players to score avg. of 40+.....

This was necessary and this reallity check can only take us forward and what we need do is to accept it and work on it for better established future. otherwise we will be in same level for years to come.

abdulmukit
June 23, 2008, 12:08 AM
watch this match BD vs IND (1st ODI, MSBNS) if anyone is intrested in http://www.amadervideo.com/loadvideo.php?id=398

Pundit
June 23, 2008, 12:23 AM
I hardly think that Siddons goes to each player and brutally assaults there self-belief using Guantanamo tactics by hurling abuses like you no good piece of sheit!

I think we have a rabble rouser in this board who harbors a lot of personal hatred towards BD cricket and its beneficiaries, and uses old fashioned political type approaches to whip up a debate that is in general unprofessional.

I don't think even if we could afford it, we'd be having elections every 6 months to drive the government out of power. Sounds like a college student wanting to emulate mid-term like exams in real life.

yaseer
June 23, 2008, 01:12 AM
I hardly think that Siddons goes to each player and brutally assaults there self-belief using Guantanamo tactics by hurling abuses like you no good piece of sheit!


Thats the point....
What JS is trying is to play them proper cricekt....by establishing rules of not playing arrial shots in middle overs, preserving wickets for final overs, and more n more consistent...whats wrong in that??

Whats hurting everyone that he is speaking some true facts that we all keep inside our mind that...other top teams are still far away from us in terms of stats and playing the game in right way....How big a journey we need to make to level it up....JS is aiming high and trying to go for that with some targets in mind in every tour.....I find this the way to go....why dont we support and lets see how it goes.....if it works out.....we will have e huge step forward and this step forward will be permanent......Lets see and hope for the best.

nsd3
June 23, 2008, 01:19 AM
Even if you try to compare apple with apple (statistically speaking) you'll see there hasn't been anything horribly wrong (as some cry babies are suggesting). BD has played 13 ODIs with stronger teams under JS so far. If you consider the last 13 ODIs under DW (as the team must have been matured after 4 years with DW before JS joined) against stronger teams (that excludes Ireland, Kenya, Zim etc.) you'll see the following:

<TABLE style="WIDTH: 198pt; BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=264 border=0 x:str><COLGROUP><COL style="WIDTH: 48pt" span=3 width=64><COL style="WIDTH: 54pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 2633" width=72><TBODY><TR style="HEIGHT: 11.25pt" height=15><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; HEIGHT: 11.25pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=64 height=15></TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=64></TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #cc99ff" width=64>Avg Score</TD><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; WIDTH: 54pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #cc99ff" width=72>Runs per Over</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 11.25pt" height=15><TD class=xl27 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; HEIGHT: 11.25pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: silver; mso-ignore: colspan" colSpan=2 height=15>Last 13 matches with DW</TD><TD class=xl28 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: silver" x:num>179








</TD><TD class=xl28 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: silver" x:num>4.06</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 11.25pt" height=15><TD class=xl27 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; HEIGHT: 11.25pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: silver; mso-ignore: colspan" colSpan=2 height=15>ALL 13 matches with JS</TD><TD class=xl28 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: silver" x:num>183








</TD><TD class=xl28 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: silver" x:num>4.11</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Does it show any deterioration in performance? Runs per Over is also suggesting that curbing shots gave us higher run rate under JS!! So "Fatch Fatch" bon koren. Have patience. :-p

Source:
13 ODIs with DW: <TABLE style="WIDTH: 338pt; BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=450 border=0 x:str><COLGROUP><COL style="WIDTH: 50pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 2413" width=66><COL style="WIDTH: 48pt" span=6 width=64><TBODY><TR style="HEIGHT: 11.25pt" height=15><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; WIDTH: 50pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; HEIGHT: 11.25pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=66 height=15>ODI # 2366 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/238174.html)</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=64>ODI # 2367 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/238175.html)</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=64>ODI # 2423 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/249739.html)</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=64>ODI # 2426 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/249742.html)</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=64>ODI # 2538 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/247464.html)</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=64>ODI # 2546 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/247472.html)</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=64>ODI # 2559 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/247485.html)</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE style="WIDTH: 288pt; BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=384 border=0 x:str><COLGROUP><COL style="WIDTH: 48pt" span=6 width=64><TBODY><TR style="HEIGHT: 11.25pt" height=15><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; HEIGHT: 11.25pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=64 height=15>ODI # 2561 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/247487.html)</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=64>ODI # 2564 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/247490.html)</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=64>ODI # 2568 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/247494.html)</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=64>ODI # 2576 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/247502.html)</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=64>ODI # 2582 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/282688.html)</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=64>ODI # 2583 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/282689.html)</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

13 ODIs with JS:
<TABLE style="WIDTH: 338pt; BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=450 border=0 x:str><COLGROUP><COL style="WIDTH: 50pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 2413" width=66><COL style="WIDTH: 48pt" span=6 width=64><TBODY><TR style="HEIGHT: 11.25pt" height=15><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; WIDTH: 50pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; HEIGHT: 11.25pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=66 height=15>ODI # 2658 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/300426.html)</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=64>ODI # 2659 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/300427.html)</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=64>ODI # 2660 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/300428.html)</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=64>ODI # 2690 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/323949.html)</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=64>ODI # 2691 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/323950.html)</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=64>ODI # 2692 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/323951.html)</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=64>ODI # 2696 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/343759.html)</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE style="WIDTH: 288pt; BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=384 border=0 x:str><COLGROUP><COL style="WIDTH: 48pt" span=6 width=64><TBODY><TR style="HEIGHT: 11.25pt" height=15><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; HEIGHT: 11.25pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=64 height=15>ODI # 2698 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/343760.html)</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=64>ODI # 2700 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/343761.html)</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=64>ODI # 2702 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/343762.html)</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=64>ODI # 2703 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/343763.html)</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=64>ODI # 2704 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/345468.html)</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=64>ODI # 2706 (http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/345470.html)</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

BANFAN
June 23, 2008, 01:27 AM
BANFAN, that's a top post.

Couldn't agree more.

Thanks Miraz also for the Data you posted for team & individuals, Amazing to see, how can a pro coach start manipulating data to his favour just after 6 months & arr 15 odd matches !

We all I'm sure would love to be in a situation, where we would be proudly praising the coach & our player, even merely for sincere efforts. But unfortunately the situation looks grim at the moment. It is of course possible to turn things around from any situation. One good win could wash away all the damage done so far. Hope they can do it in Asia cup.

Thanks Eshen for the stats, the WM stats really looks good; 1 win in every 6 matches against the big 8s ! That's impressive. Anything like 1 in 4/5 would be a very good progress. But unfortunately team does not look to have the confidence to play for winning yet. Some extracts of the interview of the coach and captain are here:

Ash:
"Definitely we want to win against UAE and better our Asia Cup records," Ashraful said. "If we don't go for the win, we won't be in the second round but I am sure we will make it."

Ashraful said he will play aggressive cricket if there was a need to do that. "I have played to the situation in the tri-series [Kitply Cup] too and I will do the same in Pakistan from where I bat.

JS:
Siddons said he expected his team to play really well in the second round. "I have seen some great signs in the batsmen on individual basis. But as far as putting all of that together, the players haven't done it yet. The bowlers must deliver better performances because that is one problem

"Whether we will win after the first round I am not sure, But I am looking forward to putting our best game together as far as batting is concerned and a much better show in bowling."

JS infact seems to know about the problem of bowling, but looks like doesn't have a fix for it.

Cricinfo (http://content-pak.cricinfo.com/asiacup/content/story/355410.html)

BANFAN
June 23, 2008, 01:48 AM
Even if you try to compare apple with apple (statistically speaking) you'll see there hasn't been anything horribly wrong (as some cry babies are suggesting). BD has played 13 ODIs with stronger teams under JS so far. If you consider the last 13 ODIs under DW (as the team must have been matured after 4 years with DW before JS joined) against stronger teams (that excludes Ireland, Kenya, Zim etc.) you'll see the following:

<TABLE style="WIDTH: 198pt; BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=264 border=0 x:str><COLGROUP><COL style="WIDTH: 48pt" span=3 width=64><COL style="WIDTH: 54pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 2633" width=72><TBODY><TR style="HEIGHT: 11.25pt" height=15><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; HEIGHT: 11.25pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=64 height=15></TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=64></TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #cc99ff" width=64>Avg Score</TD><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; WIDTH: 54pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #cc99ff" width=72>Runs per Over</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 11.25pt" height=15><TD class=xl27 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; HEIGHT: 11.25pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: silver; mso-ignore: colspan" colSpan=2 height=15>Last 13 matches with DW</TD><TD class=xl28 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: silver" x:num>179




</TD><TD class=xl28 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: silver" x:num>4.06</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 11.25pt" height=15><TD class=xl27 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; HEIGHT: 11.25pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: silver; mso-ignore: colspan" colSpan=2 height=15>ALL 13 matches with JS</TD><TD class=xl28 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: silver" x:num>183




</TD><TD class=xl28 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: silver" x:num>4.11</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Does it show any deterioration in performance? Runs per Over is also suggesting that curbing shots gave us higher run rate under JS!! So "Fatch Fatch" bon koren. Have patience. :-p

What is the win-loss equation in those 13?
Equation of surrender & look for stats- Fight and loose? 5-0 or 13-0?

And there are many things yet that can't be seen in the score cards. The deterioration of bowling and fielding and all those hanging faces. :)

But it's a good addition, JS needs many such supports to speak for him. But the loosing streak is only increasing. Results speak for itself. Hope he can bring us the desired results and becomes our national hero some day. :)

BANFAN
June 23, 2008, 01:59 AM
Reallity check is important.....like Ash needs to accept the fact that Aussie tail averages 20....so, if he wants to be called a suucessfull international batsman how hard he needs to work....how consistently he needs to bat. Guts is important here...if you are gutsy enough....true facts doesnt harm your confidence....if you are not gutsy....then international cricket is not for u.

This message goes to every other domestic cricekters as well who wants to play for BD....what to aim for...how hard needs to work in the nets....also message goes to officials.....how hard they need to work to produce/develop players to score avg. of 40+.....

This was necessary and this reallity check can only take us forward and what we need do is to accept it and work on it for better established future. otherwise we will be in same level for years to come.

Reality check is important, but beating that drum to defend his role as a coach is Obnoxious. Every person has weaknesses and strengths.

Would you (Any One) like your family members just telling arround that you are an as'ole, always drinking and womenizing and etc etc? That needs to be solved as silently as possible. Publicity of your short commings are not the solution. IMO

yaseer
June 23, 2008, 02:01 AM
We can't reach to a colclusion by comapring stats......DW n JS performing in two different time and situation....also different agenda.

nsd3
June 23, 2008, 02:01 AM
Hope he can bring us the desired results and becomes our national hero some day. :)
Agreed whole heartedly. When mangoes are being compared with Jackfruit - there's no scope of going into much deep to figure out how much fibre we've consumed compared to each other. The only comment is to say that ekta 'aam' r akta 'kathal'. Therefore, giving JS more time would give us opportunities to go into details like were those hard fought games or meek surrenders etc etc. I'll be happy to jump on that analysis then inshAllah. Cheers!

yaseer
June 23, 2008, 02:13 AM
Reality check is important, but beating that drum to defend his role as a coach is Obnoxious. Every person has weaknesses and strengths.

Would you (Any One) like your family members just telling arround that you are an as'ole, always drinking and womenizing and etc etc? That needs to be solved as silently as possible. Publicity of your short commings are not the solution. IMO

Is JS is doing reallity check in this scale?? ask yourself.....
he is not attacking players......... telling some facts as a whole...with a perception of recovering it....everyone knows whats the average of our players and team...nothing is hiidden/silent.......

what do think? you/we are closing our eyes...and no-one is seeing the real fact?

BANFAN
June 23, 2008, 02:13 AM
In simple words what I am trying to say is that, you can't take first seven months of siddons term and last two years (the best time) of whatmores term and say that siddons screwed up whatever gain whatmores did. Becauese thats bullsh-it.



Why ? If it is your KHAYESH ? then I don't have a problem.
But what is logical? The way he got it, if he has to show progress, he has to show it from there on.

Do you like to say that, every new coach will come and we will go back to our standard in 2000 to compare his performance?

First support then find out reason? or Should have a reason to support? That's your choice.

Anyway, some people havn't been able to find out a reason yet, but supporting. :)

BD-Shardul
June 23, 2008, 02:31 AM
I hardly think that Siddons goes to each player and brutally assaults there self-belief using Guantanamo tactics by hurling abuses like you no good piece of sheit!

I think we have a rabble rouser in this board who harbors a lot of personal hatred towards BD cricket and its beneficiaries, and uses old fashioned political type approaches to whip up a debate that is in general unprofessional.

I don't think even if we could afford it, we'd be having elections every 6 months to drive the government out of power. Sounds like a college student wanting to emulate mid-term like exams in real life.

This post summarises everything. Post of the thread. :up:

BANFAN
June 23, 2008, 02:38 AM
Is JS is doing reallity check in this scale?? ask yourself.....
he is not attacking players......... telling some facts as a whole...with a perception of recovering it....everyone knows whats the average of our players and team...nothing is hiidden/silent.......



What is the point of telling that our bowlers are too short.

How would one (short boy) feel that his family calling him Natu? :) I mean these things have no solution, just demeaning and gets the players make feel inferior. What is so much fuss about height of a bowler? Waker didn't need to be that tall to bowl fast? We have a good 4/5 bowlers in and around the national team, who are 6 ft and are playing in the domestic league. Teach them, coach them to be better? What's these complaining?

Once the coach makes such statement, you know the bowler who is not that tall, he will never believe that he can be one of the best ballers because of his height. These gets written in hearts, coz they keep looking up at the coach. They trust the coach.

These damages aren't tangible, but might last pretty long, that you may not even imagine.

He is giving total disgusting picture of our human resource quality, organizing ability and scarcity of resources and as if he is trying to build a palace at ground 0, inside the wreckage. That's uncalled for and un professional.

But surely, lets hope that he is successful and then we will be happier than him that's sure. I only couldn't yet findout the reasons why should we give him more time? What he is going to give us in that time, if not victories? What's his objective during his two years of assignment? Do we really need a coach like him to just get us 200+ consistently, throwing away the matches? Even it can be achieved without any coach now, if winning is not an objective anymore. :)

BANFAN
June 23, 2008, 02:44 AM
This post summarises everything. Post of the thread. :up:


I Hardly Think ......................
I Think ......................................
I Don't Think .............................

I would award you the post of the thread, for being so thoughtful :):)

yaseer
June 23, 2008, 03:08 AM
But surely, lets hope that he is successful and then we will be happier than him that's sure. I only couldn't yet findout the reasons why should we give him more time? What he is going to give us in that time, if not victories? What's his objective during his two years of assignment? Do we really need a coach like him to just get us 200+ consistently, throwing away the matches? Even it can be achieved without any coach now, if winning is not an objective anymore. :)

So, what should we do now? Terminate him and look for another coach or what?

And When Siddons said that he dont want to win? He is just saying the present side is still not good enough or not playing in a way to say that they will win....so, he wants to go strength to strenght...and he would rather take consistent performance than win once in a while.....whats wrong in that i dont understand.

It seems you guys will be happier if Siddins speaks "faka buli" that BD is good enough to beat any side. enough of these "faka bulis"....we want to see a proper direction to really take our side in a possition that we can really mean that when we say...."we will win tomorrow's match and we have been playing like winners".

Blah
June 23, 2008, 03:42 AM
Why ? If it is your KHAYESH ? then I don't have a problem.
But what is logical? The way he got it, if he has to show progress, he has to show it from there on.

Do you like to say that, every new coach will come and we will go back to our standard in 2000 to compare his performance?

First support then find out reason? or Should have a reason to support? That's your choice.

Anyway, some people havn't been able to find out a reason yet, but supporting. :)

How about this, 7 of the regular players under whatmore team (last two years), are not inthe current team.

New Captain.

New Coach

And before you start talking about stats, do know how stats work. You can't pull numbers out of your arse and start comparing things and pretend that you actually know what you are talking about.

In stats you have to take viariables and error margins into consideration; to give them any meaning. That's how they work.

And for fracking sake, read the whole post and thread before you qoute and reply someone.

Blah
June 23, 2008, 04:20 AM
To the ones who critisizes JS for his comments, and critisizing for his pessimistic and negative vibe towards the national teams players. Here are some food for thought:

Dav Whatmore (May, 15. 2007) After World Cup:
http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/294139.html

"Yes, sometimes I wonder about basic cricket knowledge. We know that when a right-hand batsman is facing a left-arm fast bowler trying to bowl quick across your body, trying to pull is harder, and that is the natural thing that you expect to be taught when you are younger but it is unheard of. The lack of basic knowledge is a bit staggering really. When these young cricketers were growing up in youth cricket, they weren't told about the basics of cricket. "
----------------------------------------

But coaching Bangladesh is perhaps very different from coaching any other international side.
"Not so very different but the boys need more guidance, a bit more technical assistance. "
----------------------------------------

"A lot of them have the hardware, but the software they need to improve on. We have all seen Aftab Ahmed play unbelievable shots but he get to the 20s and gets out. His intensity is high because he has always had this desire to do well. He has learnt fairly quickly and we all can see it. It's a big contrast from what it began as. He is a brilliant fielder too. But he needs to be more disciplined. It needs a bit of discipline to ensure you get to that timing in the middle just flows."

----------------------------------------


Dav Whatmore (April, 11. 2007):
http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/australia/content/story/289956.html

We can't just sit back and say: 'That's it, we have answered our critics and that's the end of the story'," Whatmore said. "Far from it. We have still got a long way to go yet and the reality is that Bangladesh are still the No. 9 side in the world and, as sometimes happens, we put in a shocking performance and we get beaten heavily.
"When that happens, it leads to more comments [from the critics]. We know that within ourselves we have improved and that we are capable of causing upset wins and we would like that to continue."


Dav Whatmore, March 18, 2007:
http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/285936.html
This is after winning the game against india, and beating newzealand in the practice match.

What has Bangladesh being doing right all these years you feel?

What have they being doing right! We've got a lot of things wrong, that's why we were ranked 10 and now we are nine. We are slowly emerging as a good side. Let's put this in perspective: you can't jump on the bandwagon and say, "listen, Bangladesh has turned the corner," like most in the media are trying to do. Okay, congratulate us, we've done well, yes. But it is just one match, we've got to keep going. We've done a lot of things wrong, lot and lot and lot of things wrong. We are now beginning to do a few things right, so let's give us more time.



What!! Whatmore asks for some time after coaching BD for FOUR fracking years? Surely there is somethign wrong with that picture? No wait, siddons is just coaching for 7 months, and he is asking for more time..... What is wrong with this picture?


These are comments made by whatmore, when bangladesh team was having the most success of it's cricket history.

How is this differant from what Siddon is saying. This is not negative, this is beign practical. Whats wrong with most of us is that that we forgot what happened is recent history. We only have memories of the good wins, which itself was very rare.

You want more blunt comments by whatmore about bangladesh cricket?
Here, have your pick:
http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/australia/content/player/8210.html?index=story

Baundule
June 23, 2008, 04:21 AM
So, what should we do now? Terminate him and look for another coach or what?

yaseer bhai, I understand your emotion. But we should really have the courage to terminate the contract with a coach, if we identify that he is going to the wrong direction.

Anyway, here we are discussing, if the direction is right or wrong. If wrong, it's better for BD cricket to say good bye to Sid as soon as possible.

He is no CTG anyway and so he does not deserve a free-ride. :-D

BD-Shardul
June 23, 2008, 04:27 AM
I would award you the post of the thread, for being so thoughtful :):)

Not sure if I am a thoughtful person when it comes to cricket, but this is what I feel:

During the Whatmore dynasty our captain, managemant, coach used to say "On our day we can beat any team in the world."

I have nothing to take away from Dav. He turned BD team into a team which by miles are better than any asscociate team on any given day. But when it comes against the elite teams, we had to wait for day. No matter how do we want to justify the '5' great days that we had against IND, Oz, SRI, and SA, we will have to admit that luck helped us (little bit at least) to achieve what we had on those great days.

Since no one can deny the help of luck to have had "our day" during the Dav dynasty, I always felt that someday it will breakdown. And it did broke down. And the process of breaking down started from the Dav era too. Take out the WC matches against IND and SA, and look at the scorecard of other matches. The picture will be clear.

What JS at the moment is trying to do is to produce 'our days' quite often. That's why he started from the basics. First learn how to put runs on the board. First 200. Then the target become 240. If our batters can consistently able to score 240, our day will come. The bowling has weakened, true, but if batsmen can do their job, I am pretty sure "our days" will come more consistently given with our current bowling attack.

There is no guarantee that JS will succeed. But his logic and approach make sense to me since I am tired of "On our day". Do the Ind-Pak-Sri now before the match say that "On our day.....". No they don't. Do you want your team to say every time they come to the field with the mind set "On our day...". ? I don't.

I find the statistics irrelevant to judge Siddons, becasue this is not the proper time to bring those up.

Miraz
June 23, 2008, 04:31 AM
Okay, let me get along with you for a moment here. Since, you mention this core players so much. The stats that ehsan pointed out was from the last two years of whatmore term. To get along with your argument, I will try to predict the core players that you are reffering to who was with whatmore for the majority of the last two years of his tersm.

Let's see this will be interesting. We have:

Core players:

Rafique
Haba (you know mr. bashar)
Javed Omar
tapash bashiya (he played the games BD won against Aussie and India)
Nazmul hossain ( he was in the games BD won against aussie, india twice)
Rajin Saleh (he was inthe games against, india and srilanka)

I don't know if I should include rasel, since he didnt play most of the games under siddons terms.

So here you go. There are 11 possible players in a cricket team. And 7 of the wordl beating core players that you so brag about is largely absent in siddons team.

So I would like to know, what kind of reasoning that you will to justify the hole in your "core players" argument?

This post simply highlights your lack of understanding. You think these are the core players we are talking about?

The core players we are talking about are -

Shahriar Nafees
Ashraful
Aftab
Sakib
Mashrafe
Razzak
Rasel
Shahadat

You can add Tamim and Mushfiq to the list as Dav introduced them in the later phase of his tenure. That makes 9 out of 11 of the playing team and yet Siddons is failing miserably.

It was Siddons choice to leave out Rasel and prefer Shahadat instead in the ODI team. If you take a strategic decision and fail, you must be held accountable for that.

The players we are missing are

Bashar - who was never a major ODI contributor &
Rafique - who was not in Siddons plan and he let Rafique retire from international cricket.

So, the core players remain the same, but one coach managed wins with them and the other coach thinks they are simply incapable and useless.

Now, if you think Tapash, Nazmul and Rajin were our core players, I should stop the discussion with you. There is simply no point to continue.

Thanks.

yaseer
June 23, 2008, 04:40 AM
yaseer bhai, I understand your emotion. But we should really have the courage to terminate the contract with a coach, if we identify that he is going to the wrong direction.

Anyway, here we are discussing, if the direction is right or wrong. If wrong, it's better for BD cricket to say good bye to Sid as soon as possible.

He is no CTG anyway and so he does not deserve a free-ride. :-D

Agreeed

...discussion here is on his approach.....It's too early to decide whether the appraoch is right or wrong....that's why my point is, we should patiently wait n see for some time...at least JS has some direction in mind and working on it.

As soon as we find or come to the conclusion that the appraoch is backfiring.....he should be terminated right away. I beleive BCB has the courage to do so.

Blah
June 23, 2008, 04:43 AM
This post simply highlights your lack of understanding. You think these are the core players we are talking about?

The core players we are talking about are -

Shahriar Nafees
Ashraful
Aftab
Sakib
Mashrafe
Razzak
Rasel
Shahadat

You can add Tamim and Mushfiq to the list as Dav introduced them in the later phase of his tenure. That makes 9 out of 11 of the playing team and yet Siddons is failing miserably.

It was Siddons choice to leave out Rasel and prefer Shahadat instead in the ODI team. If you take a strategic decision and fail, you must be held accountable for that.

The players we are missing are

Bashar - who was never a major ODI contributor &
Rafique - who was not in Siddons plan and he let Rafique retire from international cricket.

So, the core players remain the same, but one coach managed wins with them and the other coach thinks they are simply incapable and useless.

Now, if you think Tapash, Nazmul and Rajin were our core players, I sould stop the discussion with you. There is simply no point to continue.

Thanks.

Defination of core players: "What I think is core players are the core. Not necessarily what you think are the core. Thus I am write and you are wrong."

Earth Calling Miraz....

The players I mentioned, were all participant "on a regular basis" in all the five games that BD has won agaianst test playing nations, in the four years under whatmore. Thus they are part of the "core players" (whatever defination you want to put them into).

You my friend is blind within your own inclusive reasoning. There were some 20 players rotated on a daily basis. I named the players who were participant in all the wins against test playing nations under what more.

You will not take in to account their contribution in the rare ODI success against test playing nations, yet brag about Whatmore's success? How are you making any sense?

I checked. Did you?

Miraz
June 23, 2008, 04:54 AM
Blah,
The problem is you don't understand the meaning of "core".

I will refer you again to the post which started the discussion about the "core" players.

You may ask why I am disregarding the first year and half of Whatmore period, the answer is simple - although we had two-three decent players in the team back then, we had not found a good core of players until the end of 2004. In case of Siddons, he is handed a good core of players from the very beginning.

BANFAN
June 23, 2008, 04:56 AM
To the ones who critisizes JS for his comments, and critisizing for his pessimistic and negative vibe towards the national teams players. Here are some food for thought:


He has also identified our problems as JS and those are no secrets.

1. Show me a negative or demeaning remarks.
2. He never Told that we cannot win against anyone.
3. He didn't tell that genetically we have some disadvantage, we lack resources etc etc in public. Once someone says these in public, means he is preparing his defence for failure.
4. He didn't ever try to justify improvement under him, through exploitation of stats like 200+ and how many fifties.
5. He never compromised the competitive attitude in the field to gain those stats to use them deliberately as signs of huge improvement.

I can go on and on. So you also can I'm sure, because we all are discussing bcoz we love our team. So if you just have a close look at all JS comments from the begining and our on field performances, most of the things will be clear I believe.

I even don't want to get into WM discussion. If you think that JS is on the right track, instead of defending allegations on him, why can't you show a clear vision of JS, the plan, and the outcomes.

How and when are we going towards the road to victory ? Even one in 5/6 matches as it was when JS took over the responsibility. What's the plan? Do you see anything other than blaming everything and everyone?

JS made mistakes, is making mistakes and deserves criticism/discussion, so don't get emotional on it, he is no saint nor a magician. So lets try to find out if he really has any plan at hand. or just passing time and making money. Lets understand that.

I Will be very happy if he succeeds and every mision, vision, objection etc are time bound isn't it?

yaseer
June 23, 2008, 05:07 AM
I would like to add on this "core players" debate:

I agree with Miraz bhai's list of core players as from my definition those are the core players and they are both avaible to DW and JS era.

But do you think right after JS arrived these "core players" started under performing? "NO"....

Our graph started went down right after we return to test cricket after WC and after a long break from this version. Before WC, we have been playing only ODIs...and our players going more confident on this version, resulting WC success. But after WC, test series against India,..it all started to go wrong....followed to Srilanka....then it hampered in ODIs as well.....Then Siddons came and he is now still trying to get the level up....

So, Break to test cricket......having high success in WC....returning to TESTs...finding ourselves in the same level where we were 2 years ago....confidence breakdown in both forms.......thats it.....So, i dont blame JS when i think of WC Bangladesh team and Asia cup 2008 Bangladesh team.

Miraz
June 23, 2008, 05:24 AM
If Siddons had said..

"I am working to build a consistent Bangladesh team and it will take --- months. Please disregard the results within the time frame and you will get a better Bangladesh team who will compete consistently".

I would have been the first person to support him from the word go, but instead he is branding us as a hopeless bunch and claiming our past was a fluke. We have no abilities to win matches against top teams and people who think that we can win matches against top teams do not understand cricket at all!!

Here lies the problem. He is not trying to build a better Bangladesh cricket team, at least that's not the message he is giving out, he is trying to justify his failures and using these excuses to save his back.

BANFAN
June 23, 2008, 05:27 AM
Blah, we had about 100 players who got bd cap so far; many of them played under WM and many of them were the core at different time. We cannot look at all of them, makes no sense. That's past.

We should look at the team JS inherited and what changes he has made. In that way if you see, infact 11 out of 15 are of WM's time. Basically Only HB is out and Raquibul is in playing 11.

BANFAN
June 23, 2008, 05:48 AM
There is no guarantee that JS will succeed. But his logic and approach make sense to me since I am tired of "On our day". Do the Ind-Pak-Sri now before the match say that "On our day.....". No they don't. Do you want your team to say every time they come to the field with the mind set "On our day...". ? I don't.


Every thing develops in stages. Once we got the test status every one said that we need 5 years time to start winning. That means first five years in 'Don't Think of Winning' the Phase 1. Soon after that expextations started rising and so the tone was "On Our day we could beat anyone" phase 2, But expectations are still rising and like you said you are tired of it, mens you like to hear "Every day could be our day" Phase 3.

You were tired (impatient) to hear the phase 2 objective. You needed to be in phase 3 but JS is taking you to phase 1. You like it becoz you just got temporarily releived due to the change, as you were fedup with the phase 2 for long time. But soon you will realize that you have infact moved backward and it is not possible to jump from phase 1 to 3, he has just delayed you by almost similar period that you allready spent in phase 2.

We needed to hold on to phase 2 and move forward in natural process, with time and experience.

BD-Shardul
June 23, 2008, 07:14 AM
Every thing develops in stages. Once we got the test status every one said that we need 5 years time to start winning. That means first five years in 'Don't Think of Winning' the Phase 1. Soon after that expextations started rising and so the tone was "On Our day we could beat anyone" phase 2, But expectations are still rising and like you said you are tired of it, mens you like to hear "Every day could be our day" Phase 3.

You were tired (impatient) to hear the phase 2 objective. You needed to be in phase 3 but JS is taking you to phase 1. You like it becoz you just got temporarily releived due to the change, as you were fedup with the phase 2 for long time. But soon you will realize that you have infact moved backward and it is not possible to jump from phase 1 to 3, he has just delayed you by almost similar period that you allready spent in phase 2.

We needed to hold on to phase 2 and move forward in natural process, with time and experience.


I think that we were not in a position to start from phase 3, to be honest. No matter how much we brag about our Golden era of cricket of the Dav era.

BD-Shardul
June 23, 2008, 07:16 AM
Defination of core players: "What I think is core players are the core. Not necessarily what you think are the core. Thus I am write and you are wrong."

Earth Calling Miraz....

The players I mentioned, were all participant "on a regular basis" in all the five games that BD has won agaianst test playing nations, in the four years under whatmore. Thus they are part of the "core players" (whatever defination you want to put them into).

You my friend is blind within your own inclusive reasoning. There were some 20 players rotated on a daily basis. I named the players who were participant in all the wins against test playing nations under what more.

You will not take in to account their contribution in the rare ODI success against test playing nations, yet brag about Whatmore's success? How are you making any sense?

I checked. Did you?

I am with you all the way, Blah bhai. Very well said in all your posts. Kudos for you.

Ishtylish cricketer
June 23, 2008, 07:59 AM
If Siddons had said..

"I am working to build a consistent Bangladesh team and it will take --- months. Please disregard the results within the time frame and you will get a better Bangladesh team who will compete consistently".

I would have been the first person to support him from the word go, but instead he is branding us as a hopeless bunch and claiming our past was a fluke. We have no abilities to win matches against top teams and people who think that we can win matches against top teams do not understand cricket at all!!

Here lies the problem. He is not trying to build a better Bangladesh cricket team, at least that's not the message he is giving out, he is trying to justify his failures and using these excuses to save his back.

I don't think he's trying to do that at all. If we win about one match out of 25 against a top 8 team, then our achievments have to be regarded as flukes. Granted that Bd beat some of the top teams in ODIs in DW's era, namely Australia, India, SA, and SL but have failed to beat those same teams in a series. This fact justifies our standing and the perception outsiders have our players and team. Our players are crap statisticallly compared to top nations. That's a fact we have to learn to accept. Untill our players start playing consistently no one will give them credit. JS in his short tenure has seen it all. From games being finished in 5-6 overs to Bd almost successfully chasing a score of 320. The "Jekyll and Hyde" phenomenon will nevrr earn any praise from a cricket savy observer. Think about it this way, if you know you're crap (the statistical reality) and won't get a future contract unless you score some runs, you will be working your tail off to prepare yourself to score runs. Sugar coding things never produced champions. Australians are famous for their "tough-love" approach to players and some may be adversely affect by it, but I didn't expect the fans to be affect by this display of affection.

abu2abu
June 23, 2008, 08:18 AM
There are some very insightful posts here. miraz bhai, BANFAN and BD Shardul have all made some astute observations. I think it's important to bear in mind that we are all entitled to our opinions.

I see it like this. It's too early to judge (as many others are saying) and we should probably give him a full 12 months in the job before assessing him. However, it's difficult not to make comparisons when he chooses to make ridiculous comments like that 50% line. If Siddons is comparing his own performance (over a mere 12 months) to that of his predecessors, then why shouldn't we as fans do the same?
Also, some people have stated that Siddons is a "batting orientated coach" rather than a bowling one and therefore we shouldn't blame him for our bowling problems. I'm sorry but that excuse just doesn't stand up to scrutiny. What exactly was dav in his playing career? I'm pretty sure he was a batsman. If whatmore (a former Australian international unlike Siddons who never played for his country) could get our bowlers to perform why can't siddons?

The truth is the buck ha to stop somewhere and siddons is under immense pressure. Siddons is head coach, not a development coach or a bowling coach, so results do matter. Nobody would be making such a fuss if BD were winning matches. t is as a result of this pressure that Siddons is forced to go on the defensive by inventing statistics to back up his position!

Isn't there a famous line that goes "comment is free, but facts are sacred"? Siddons is not a politician, if Miraz bhai is right about thoe stats he should rightly be questioned on why he got such absurd figures.

If we continue to fail to win matches by the end of 2008, then the BCB would be quite right to look at why they are paying Siddons so much for delivering so little....

Miraz
June 23, 2008, 08:25 AM
I don't think he's trying to do that at all. If we win about one match out of 25 against a top 8 team, then our achievments have to be regarded as flukes. Granted that Bd beat some of the top teams in ODIs in DW's era, namely Australia, India, SA, and SL but have failed to beat those same teams in a series. This fact justifies our standing and the perception outsiders have our players and team. Our players are crap statisticallly compared to top nations. That's a fact we have to learn to accept. Untill our players start playing consistently no one will give them credit. JS in his short tenure has seen it all. From games being finished in 5-6 overs to Bd almost successfully chasing a score of 320. The "Jekyll and Hyde" phenomenon will nevrr earn any praise from a cricket savy observer. Think about it this way, if you know you're crap (the statistical reality) and won't get a future contract unless you score some runs, you will be working your tail off to prepare yourself to score runs. Sugar coding things never produced champions. Australians are famous for their "tough-love" approach to players and some may be adversely affect by it, but I didn't expect the fans to be affect by this display of affection.

Get your facts right mate!!

It's about one win in every 6 matches played.

Please don't do a Siddons here, don't bring all the past matches into account to inflate the ratio.

In the last two years under DW, we had 29 matches against top 8 teams and we have won 5 of them, that's 1 win in every 6 matches.

Miraz
June 23, 2008, 08:29 AM
I don't think he's trying to do that at all. If we win about one match out of 25 against a top 8 team, then our achievments have to be regarded as flukes. Granted that Bd beat some of the top teams in ODIs in DW's era, namely Australia, India, SA, and SL but have failed to beat those same teams in a series. This fact justifies our standing and the perception outsiders have our players and team. Our players are crap statisticallly compared to top nations. That's a fact we have to learn to accept.

Get your facts right mate!!

It's about one win in every 6 matches played.

Please don't do a Siddons here and don't bring matches played even in 1987 to inflate the ratio.

In the last two years under DW, we had 29 matches against top 8 teams and we have won 5 of them, that's 1 win in every 6 matches.

Where from are you getting 1 win in every 25 odd matches?

abu2abu
June 23, 2008, 09:13 AM
I don't think he's trying to do that at all. If we win about one match out of 25 against a top 8 team, then our achievments have to be .... Sugar coding things never produced champions. Australians are famous for their "tough-love" approach to players and some may be adversely affect by it, but I didn't expect the fans to be affect by this display of affection.


Dude, it's "sugar coating". "Sugar coding" sounds like something out of a weird spy novel...

thebest
June 23, 2008, 12:40 PM
Why Miraz vai has to defend Siddons. Yes I hate Siddons more than I hate JO. At least JO tried his best. JS is pathetic liar as Miraz Vai already proved.DW got a dead cart. Remember we were just beaten by Canada when DW took over and then he has fiery debut againest the full strength Aussi at their backyard. In his second series he almost pulled out an away test win but Inzi's innings of life. Comapare that JS. JS joined after our succesful two WC and has a relative easy outing (yes NZ is tough but no way Aussi tough).With the exception of Rafiq, HB and KM each and every other member of the present bunch is much better both in talent and technique. Siddons job is much easier. DW has to convert a bunch of loosers into winners. He did it while Siddons job is to sustain these win. He failed and succesfully made us looser. During last cycle of DW era top eights started to fear us as potential dream shatterer; opposition fans started to respect us. Now we are just in Chappel era. He is simply reinventing wheel. If he wants to improve batting by totally forgetting bowling than let him be the batting coach; not the head coach. We need someone who can see the big picture like DW, Woolmer or Dyson. Not this Trevor Chapel 2.0. Remember during TC's time we were one of the best fielding side.We may score 240 but opposition would score 420 with Farhad as opening bowler.

Blah
June 23, 2008, 09:52 PM
http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/duty_calls.png

BD-Shardul
June 24, 2008, 12:28 AM
It seems that on the eve of UAE match, the whole BC is divided into two groups: Anti-Siddons and Pro-Siddons.

To all anti-Siddons:

I respect your view. But out of anger and frustration towards Siddons, please don't pray BD to lose against UAE today to solidify your stance against Siddons. "Allah je kokhon mansuher doa kobul kore keu bolte pare na.". Still if you do so, that would be the most disgusting.

:-D

Baundule
June 24, 2008, 01:35 AM
It seems that on the eve of UAE match, the whole BC is divided into two groups: Anti-Siddons and Pro-Siddons.

To all anti-Siddons:

I respect your view. But out of anger and frustration towards Siddons, please don't pray BD to lose against UAE today to solidify your stance against Siddons. "Allah je kokhon mansuher doa kobul kore keu bolte pare na.". Still if you do so, that would be the most disgusting.

:-D

You never know what is good in the long run. ;)

BANFAN
June 24, 2008, 01:54 AM
I rather pray that I am proven wrong by JS and he really makes BD a very stable and winning team. Insha-Allah.

What we are talking about is the words, actions, attitude and results of JS that we have seen so far, does look to be very discouraging. Our performance is deteriorating. There is no question of hating or loving JS.

Hope he can make a miracle and turnaround from the current situation. He can't take eternity to continue his test and trial. Tangible Positives are needed to be produced sooner rather than later. We need to win.

If he can do that :) Or we can just look for miracles !!

sbsash
June 29, 2008, 03:44 PM
Bangladesh made more than 240 in all the games for the Asia cup so far.

qwert
June 29, 2008, 04:01 PM
Bangladesh made more than 240 in all the games for the Asia cup so far.


yep:-D hope it continues

Haider
June 29, 2008, 08:07 PM
Who will tell this guy that the score is a relative matter? In some matches, 180 is a good score, while in some others 280 is not. BD team think tank terribly misses out the dynamicity in their thinking based on the match condition. With that type of pre-planned target, they will even be more and more static.

Bangladesh certainly can not score 240+ in each match - they do not need to - but not achieveing such target will put more pressure on the players and they will be more and more void of confidence.

Siddons said it was a reality that other teams were better than Bangladesh and his players knew that. "Out there it is a tough game for them with the skill level they have got. Our batsmen average 20; batsmen in other teams average 35. So it's 350 for them versus 200 for us. That is the reality of the situation."

I do not understand what this guy is up to. And what the good comments like this will bring to the team. IMO, it needs to be a great stupid to make comments like that.

Dude ..u seriously need to relax. I don't think Siddon is trying to demoralize the very same team he is coaching. I think he is doing a fine job.. and I have no doubt that he is taking his job seriously and he is in it not for the money but for the better of Bangladesh Cricket future.

BANFAN
July 6, 2008, 01:45 AM
This is the difference between playing for winning and taking winning out of all equation. Human beings are not machines and as such it doesn't work at its best when there is no incentive or motivation. BD players infact needs more motivation and incentives in comparison to the Ausies. That's due to cultural differences.

JS should have known that from Greg's experience in India. They performed much better without a coach rathar than a coach who is demoralizing/demotivating the team. I'm sure sure we will do a much better job even without JS. But If we can afford to have specialist coaches for Bowling/Batting/fielding that's enough, even if we fail to manage a motivator/inspirational coach like DW.