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Eshen
July 27, 2009, 07:14 PM
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gqU4HDboiLM6lgFnqZinBg6c7mKw

SYDNEY — Australia's leading spin bowlers say they are firmly against coaching the controversial 'doosra', with one Test great saying it is an illegal delivery.

The 'doosra', an Urdu term for a ball that turns away from a right-hander, as opposed to a conventional off-spinner which turns towards him, has engendered debate over its legitimacy in world cricket.

Pakistan spinner Saqlain Mushtaq has been credited with introducing the unorthodox finger-spinning delivery and it has been used by, among others, Test cricket's all-time leading wicket-taker Muttiah Muralitharan and India's Harbhajan Singh.

But a gathering of Australia's prominent spin bowlers at a 'spin summit' last month in Brisbane, details of which emerged on Monday, concluded that the doosra cannot be bowled legally and there was no place for it to be taught in Australia.

The verdict had the unanimous agreement of the group including Shane Warne, Stuart MacGill, Jim Higgs, Gavin Robertson, Terry Jenner, Peter Philpott and Ashley Mallett.

Mallett, a former Test off-spinner and now an author, said he believed the doosra could not be delivered by a finger-spinner without it being 'chucked' and was thus against cricket's rules.

"There was unanimous agreement that the off-spinner?s ?other one?, the doosra, should not be coached in Australia," Mallett wrote in the Adelaide Review published Monday.

"I have never seen anyone actually bowl the doosra. It has to be a chuck.

"Until such time as the ICC (world governing body) declares that all manner of chucking is legal in the game of cricket I refuse to coach the doosra. All at the 'Spin Summit' agreed."

In May this year, Pakistani off-spinner Saeed Ajmal's bowling action was cleared by a biomechanic expert after he was reported by the umpires while bowling a doosra during the second one-day international against Australia in Dubai April.

South African off-spinner Johan Botha was also reported for bowling a doosra last May, but his delivery was ruled illegal by the ICC and he was warned against bowling that particular delivery in international cricket.

Muralitharan, Harbhajan and Pakistan's Shoaib Malik have all had their actions cleared by the ICC human movement specialist panel after the legitimacy of their doosras was called into question.

Zeeshan
July 27, 2009, 07:40 PM
For those who cant read english, translation:

?

B-l-a-t-a-n-t R-a-c-i-s-m!

Eshen
July 27, 2009, 07:44 PM
It's not only Aussies who think Doosra is illegal though,

Spin great Bedi blasts ICC over doosra row

http://www.dawn.com/2005/03/28/spt6.htm

BANGALORE, March 27, 2005: India’s spin great Bishen Singh Bedi says that the International Cricket Council (ICC) has not handled the chucking controversy well and has pointed out that the ‘doosra’ from an off-spinner was simply a case of throwing.

“The ‘doosra’ is like an illicit child who has been allowed to grow into a monster,” the former skipper said in television programme. “It is a bigger blow to cricket than match-fixing.”

Stressing that there was a need to hate the crime and not the criminals, he termed Pakistan off-spinner Shoaib Malik, against whom accusations of suspect bowling surfaced recently, “a small mosquito” and called Sri Lankan Muttiah Muralitharan “a monster who has taken 500-plus wickets. Even Shoaib Akhtar is a bigger criminal.”

Mincing no words, he took a swipe at the ICC. “They are the biggest criminals and have not handled the issue in a proper manner. Why are the players not allowed to have a say in anything that they do,” he questioned.

“You cannot catch the culprits who fix matches but the incidents of chucking are happening in front of everyone. It is a disease that will keep resurfacing,” he said referring to Indian off-spinner Harbhajan Singh who was reported for a second time in the Kolkata Test for bowling the wrong one, after being cleared by the ICC just weeks ago.

“Who is to blame for the extra psychological pressure on Harbhajan — the bowler himself. Why is it that no one is pointing fingers at Anil Kumble or for that matter Shane Warne, only because they are okay,” he said. “The whole Indian team is behind him, but they are all backing the wrong horse.”

“Throwing is a creation of the subcontinent. We must own it and shouldn’t try to look for excuses. It is the job of the subcontinent to ensure this habit is arrested, the sooner the better.”

Nafi
July 27, 2009, 07:46 PM
I can bowl a doosra without chucking it, but it nevers lands where I want it to go.

You have almost no control over the ball. I dont practice it anyway, since I bowl seam usually.

Zeeshan
July 27, 2009, 07:50 PM
@ Eshen II

They racist too.

Zeeshan
July 27, 2009, 07:54 PM
Truth is if Murali was a pretty-boy good lookin white fella he wouldn't have to face all these freakin hataz'.

Same can be said of Shoaib "Chad" Malik

Zunaid
July 27, 2009, 08:04 PM
I flick my boogers at Bedi.

One World
July 27, 2009, 08:07 PM
I think Bishan Bedi also mentioned something in relationship terms about the other one.
As it was invented by Saqlain, they would not mind to send even Warne to condition camp. Jokes!!:down:

al Furqaan
July 27, 2009, 08:38 PM
i dunno maybe murali has ehlos-danlos syndrome with hypermobile joints and ****, but his doosra looks like the biggest chuck ever.

same will bhajji, but that might be his stock offies as well.

i can bowl a doosra, fairly cleanly, but it might not even be a real doosra. i turn it the other way around, and its different from my leg break...but apparently my friend can read it really well.

Zeeshan
July 27, 2009, 08:48 PM
Soon the cricket purists will probably ban carom ball too.... Murali and Mendis they are pure artists. The whole beauty of cricket lies in the fact that someone brings something unique to the table with their own creativity tpo enhance the art giving variety. KP gets smacked for his two edged attack to both sides; our Razzak had to go through rehabilitation. This is a pure farce.

Why can't they allow players who intuitively looks legit instead of trying to measure their bowling in angles and radians? smh

One World
July 27, 2009, 09:03 PM
^Not always, when Paul Adams revived Chinaman it was not really pretty sight watch him play.

But yes this debate on Doosra is just kept alive by those rejects patronized highly by the Aussies as somehow Srilanka one of the newbies after Pakistan became the best fit to this technique.

IanW
July 27, 2009, 10:11 PM
One World,

Paul Adams had a weird technique, but he wasnt a chucker.

Zeeshan,

I strongly advise you to get off your high horse and look at the cases of chucking in Australia. I'd start with Ian Meckiff, and then have a look at Aaron Bird.

Generally,

The advantage of offspin over legspin is that it is more accurate. The disadvantage is that a legspinner can move the ball both ways.

If offspinners are allowed to legally chuck the ball by 15 degrees, and thereby get the ball to turn both ways with a doosra, then why ever use a legspinner ?

One World
July 28, 2009, 05:42 AM
One World,

Paul Adams had a weird technique, but he wasnt a chucker.
.......
Generally,

The advantage of offspin over legspin is that it is more accurate. The disadvantage is that a legspinner can move the ball both ways.

If offspinners are allowed to legally chuck the ball by 15 degrees, and thereby get the ball to turn both ways with a doosra, then why ever use a legspinner ?


When did I call Paul a chucker. I was pointing to the revival scenario which not always brings in expected result adding salt to injury the misery of watching weirdness.

If Doosra::Chucking to you then I cannot really debate here as we are on the two opposite points on this topic.

But if you are branding someone as an offy or leggy and then saying offy should not be offered to do Doosra then we need to go back and start re-write cricketing archive taking away all the counts of wickets the offies possess.

In other words "Keep It Simple Stupid", if Doosra was accepted when it was first bowled why brand it today? If a leggie has legal deliveries both ways, offie having it causing trouble now. Only cricket in AUS is so academic that they cannot really accept others' innovative perception of the game specially if it is coming from sub-continent except India who never really contributed for anything except IPL.

IanW
July 28, 2009, 06:01 AM
In other words "Keep It Simple Stupid", if Doosra was accepted when it was first bowled why brand it today? If a leggie has legal deliveries both ways, offie having it causing trouble now. Only cricket in AUS is so academic that they cannot really accept others' innovative perception of the game specially if it is coming from sub-continent except India who never really contributed for anything except IPL.

Ahhh, thats the point isnt it ... the doosra never was accepted in many circles. And when certain umpires saw it, they called No Ball. The googly - that was never illegal, only immoral, as it involves the wrist being bent, not the elbow.

The ICC has now amnended the rulebook to allow chucking, as long as the bend does not exceed 15 degrees.

Frankly, I am surprised you would class Bishin Bedi as an Australian. Personally, I think he'd be a fine Aussie (after all, Harold Larwood ended up as one), but me, I'd call him an Indian. Oh, and as far as your racism in saying India never really contributed anything ... even without the obduracy of Gavaskar or the fluidity of Tendulkar, we have Ranji, and for his leg glance, Ranji alone would have been enough.

Cricket is based on several things ; one of these is we bowl the ball, we don't chuck it. If you want to change that, then what we have is no longer cricket.

alibangali
July 28, 2009, 06:04 AM
It will be a farce to make the doosra illegal now just because the aussies and a few crtics think its illegal. if the ICC declared it to be legal then its legal. the real issue is that the aussies dont have any spin talents anymore and really sulking like a kid. Since the time of warne i have not really heard of any other spin superstar from australia.

One World
July 28, 2009, 06:06 AM
Ahhh, thats the point isnt it ... the doosra never was accepted in many circles. And when certain umpires saw it, they called No Ball. The googly - that was never illegal, only immoral, as it involves the wrist being bent, not the elbow.

The ICC has now amnended the rulebook to allow chucking, as long as the bend does not exceed 15 degrees.

Frankly, I am surprised you would class Bishin Bedi as an Australian. Personally, I think he'd be a fine Aussie (after all, Harold Larwood ended up as one), but me, I'd call him an Indian. Oh, and as far as your racism in saying India never really contributed anything ... even without the obduracy of Gavaskar or the fluidity of Tendulkar, we have Ranji, and for his leg glance, Ranji alone would have been enough.

Cricket is based on several things ; one of these is we bowl the ball, we don't chuck it. If you want to change that, then what we have is no longer cricket.

And then there will come Bradman, who would be the future of all kinds of cricket.

IanW
July 28, 2009, 06:18 AM
It will be a farce to make the doosra illegal now just because the aussies and a few crtics think its illegal. if the ICC declared it to be legal then its legal. the real issue is that the aussies dont have any spin talents anymore and really sulking like a kid. Since the time of warne i have not really heard of any other spin superstar from australia.

Well, in order.

It's already a farce, and has been for a while.

A few critics includes Bishin Bedi, one of the best offspinners there ever was.

ICC has declared chucking to be legal, as long as you keep it to fifteen degrees.

Yep, that's true. Australia have as many slow left arm and orthodox spin talents as usual (viz : none. Lol Hauritz) and no decent leggies (true about most of the time ... erm, Benaud, Warne and Macgill covers it for decent leggies since O'Reilly. Lol Jim Higgs. Lol Peter Sleep).

And my personal view ... same as Richard Loe. I think Murali is too good a player to lower himself by cheating.

OZGOD
July 28, 2009, 10:51 AM
It's kind of a moot point to be honest. Our spinners can't even bowl an offbreak properly, let alone a doosra, and nobody to teach it.

IanW
July 28, 2009, 11:18 AM
Ozgod,

Head to Newcastle. Murray Bennett was a good part of knocking over the Windies in their pomp.

Akib
July 28, 2009, 12:31 PM
Who cares. As OZGOD said, their spinners can't even bowl basic deliveries properly... They shouldn't come near doorsa anyways.

Surfer
July 29, 2009, 01:17 AM
Classic example of 'sour grapes'. Typical Aussie. And as far as Bedi is concerned, he will say anything to get some media coverage. Just about anything. And for some unexplained reason, he hates Murali. He would readily call everything associated with Muralu illegal.

Eshen
July 29, 2009, 03:30 AM
Ian, Aussies were super pissed when Bosanquet invented googly and took tons of wickets using it. Don't you think the history is repeating itself?

Imteaz
July 29, 2009, 05:16 AM
Nice & Interesting.

Rabz
July 29, 2009, 10:42 AM
My question:

How many beers did the boys had before they decided to flick the doosra?
Or was it just pub talk that got out in the media?

IanW
July 29, 2009, 04:39 PM
Ian, Aussies were super pissed when Bosanquet invented googly and took tons of wickets using it. Don't you think the history is repeating itself?

Eshen,

No, they werent, and I'd like to see some period evidence to suggest they were upset over the delivery that was not illegal, but merely immoral.

But the key is you use your wrist to do a googly, and your elbow to do a doosra.

Surfer,

So, if they are white and disagree with you, it's racism. If they arent white and disagree with you, it's a personal feud. It's pretty good to have such an all-purpose way to dismiss anyone holding a different opinion.

Bluntly, Bedi doesnt dislike Murali for any reason other than he think's he's a chucker, who cheated his way to the wickets that other bowlers got honestly.

The ICC also agrees he's a chucker, but they amended the rules to make limited chucking, up to 15 degrees, legal.

Rabz,

It's a deeply held opinion by the Australian spin brains trust, and part of the Australian cricketing tradition. Bill Woodfull refused to have Bobyline bowled, and Terry Jenner refuses to teach the offies how to chuck the ball so it spins the other way.

RazabQ
July 29, 2009, 05:01 PM
Ian mate, I think you are being highly convenient here. Think back to what brought about this 15 degree tolerance in the first place. If you recall, the ICC installed super slo-mo cameras at some tournaments and found that _every_one_ chucks to some degree. Even the great Glenn McGrath. What they found was that as far as visual evidence goes and average deviation, anything withing 15 degrees should be fine. It is therefore highly revisionist to think that this law was rewritten for Murali. Also, there was a Sky documentary where Murali had his entire arm in a brace which prevented him from any form of elbow straightening and he was still able to turn his offie and doosra at good pace and with great deviation.

I understand that this is one of those issues where many with an Aussie upbringing (note I don't say this is racism - cricket_king who holds the same views is of Bangladeshi ancestry) somehow gets all hot and bothered. It could very well be because Australia has never had a reputation for cricketing innovation. Of domination, excellence, professionalism and competitiveness - yes, but not of newness: The didn't invent leg-spin, just had some of the best practitioners. They didn't invent the leg glance or hook or pull - just that their batters are so good at it. They didn't invent the reverse sweep or switch hit. They didn't invent reverse swing but now happen to have the best coach for teaching it. Arguably the only thing "new" that they've taught the world is "mental disintegration" aka calling someone dirty names while on the field and then acting like nothing's happened because you are buying that "mate" a beer afterwords. Hence, "new" stuff in Australia is treated with suspicion perhaps?

Anyway, I never recall the Aussies griping about Saqlain's action and he invented the doosra. Could it be because they were able to figure him out easily but not Murali? To assert, in a blanket fashion, that all doosras must involve chucking is ignorant at best and a sad case of sour-grapes at worst.

I look forward to the day when an Australian player, sayes F-you to coaching and comes up with some new form of bowling or batting, sends the establishment into a tizzy and burying this mistrust of all things new once and for all from the southern shores.

OZGOD
July 29, 2009, 11:38 PM
Innovation is not just about creating new deliveries, new shots or the like. Innovation is about thinking of new ways to do things, new models to follow. I thought scoring at 4rpo in a Test match and finishing it in 3 or 4 days was pretty innovative myself. Nobody had done it before. And I thought World Series Cricket, which was set up by Kerry Packer, was a bit of an innovation, but maybe others don't see it that way. Same goes for the six-ball over, which was also an Australian innovation way back in the late 1800s. The concept of centrally contracted players - another innovation.

And John Buchanan was talking about switch hitting well before Kevinder started doing it. Buchanan also brought in a US baseball throwing coach to teach the OZ how to throw low, flat trajectories which saved time and improved accuracy. Buck was actually a pretty innovative coach. 90% of his ideas were rubbish, but the 10% made a difference.

RazabQ
July 30, 2009, 12:08 AM
OZGod, fair enough. You explain then this hot-n-bothered reaction to bowling innovations then.

OZGOD
July 30, 2009, 12:19 AM
OZGod, fair enough. You explain then this hot-n-bothered reaction to bowling innovations then.

I think it's more of a principle thing for them to be honest. Like Ian said, they just fundamentally think that a doosra cannot be bowled legally as it involves straightening the elbow. Clearly it is now a legal delivery, but chucking has a big stigma in OZ.

That said, if Cullen or Horroritz ever managed to figure out how to bowl one, I don't think anyone will be complaining. E-)

Surfer
July 30, 2009, 01:08 AM
Innovation is not just about creating new deliveries, new shots or the like. Innovation is about thinking of new ways to do things, new models to follow. I thought scoring at 4rpo in a Test match and finishing it in 3 or 4 days was pretty innovative myself. Nobody had done it before. And I thought World Series Cricket, which was set up by Kerry Packer, was a bit of an innovation, but maybe others don't see it that way. Same goes for the six-ball over, which was also an Australian innovation way back in the late 1800s. The concept of centrally contracted players - another innovation.

And John Buchanan was talking about switch hitting well before Kevinder started doing it. Buchanan also brought in a US baseball throwing coach to teach the OZ how to throw low, flat trajectories which saved time and improved accuracy. Buck was actually a pretty innovative coach. 90% of his ideas were rubbish, but the 10% made a difference.

Yup. What you do is innovation. What others do (and you can not) is illegal. For example, a squash ball in the gloves is innovation. The doosra is illegal.

OZGOD
July 30, 2009, 01:30 AM
Yup. What you do is innovation. What others do (and you can not) is illegal. For example, a squash ball in the gloves is innovation. The doosra is illegal.


Show me where in the Laws of Cricket it says that having a squash ball in the gloves is illegal and I will agree with you. Does having a squash ball in the gloves involve straightening the elbow?

What about being deliberately late for the toss? Surely that can't be an innovation and neither can it be illegal, as a million captains from a million teams in a million sports have done the same to wind their opposing captain up. It's all good when you get away with it eh.

Mind you, my personal opinion is that if the ICC have legalised straightening the elbow by 15 degrees, then it's all good. But other Ozzies will have their own opinions, and fair enough.

RazabQ
July 30, 2009, 03:42 AM
I'd like to again reiterate, that elbow straightening was done by many an OZ bowler as well under the ICC analysis. This matter of principle still seems a tad convenient if you ask me.

Tintin
July 30, 2009, 03:50 AM
I'd like to again reiterate, that elbow straightening was done by many an OZ bowler as well under the ICC analysis. This matter of principle still seems a tad convenient if you ask me.

The ICC analysis was done in the 2004 Champions Trophy where Murali did not play. I would be glad to be proved wrong but I don't think Murali has ever been tested in match conditions, though ICC claims to have the figures for many others. Those for Murali are all taken during "tests". One would have thought that ICC would want to measure Murali before anyone else.

RazabQ
July 30, 2009, 03:54 AM
And I'm yet to hear the rebuttal of Murali brace issue:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDxRhcpBZio

Again, given that he was a trump to Warny's wicket total, I find this "principle" business unconvincing.

RazabQ
July 30, 2009, 03:55 AM
Note I'm not talking about match conditions per se but the blanket statement that a doosra cannot be bowled without chucking. That to me is total crock! The match condition argument will never end unless you record every delivery every bowler has ever bowled.

OZGOD
July 30, 2009, 05:29 PM
It's perception though RazabQ. Most offies cannot bowl a doosra AND control the ball without noticeably straightening their elbow. E.g. Shoaib Malik, Johan Botha, etc. It's an incredibly difficult delivery to bowl. There are a select few who obviously can keep it below 15 degrees, like Saqi, Saint Harby and Murali. Their anatomy or level of control is such that it allows them to do it. Now I'm not Ashley Mallett and I can neither speak for him, nor do I necessarily share his opinion, but I would guess that they think that it's pretty much impossible for someone to bowl a doosra without bending and straightening the arm.

Like I said, I'm sure tunes will change once someone actually manages to bowl a doosra in OZ.

Surfer
July 31, 2009, 12:04 AM
Show me where in the Laws of Cricket it says that having a squash ball in the gloves is illegal and I will agree with you. Does having a squash ball in the gloves involve straightening the elbow?

What about being deliberately late for the toss? Surely that can't be an innovation and neither can it be illegal, as a million captains from a million teams in a million sports have done the same to wind their opposing captain up. It's all good when you get away with it eh.

Mind you, my personal opinion is that if the ICC have legalised straightening the elbow by 15 degrees, then it's all good. But other Ozzies will have their own opinions, and fair enough.

That's the point. Both are new, both are within the law. One the Australians can do, the other they can not. What they can not do, they declare illegal. That's hypocritical. The doosra has been around for more than a decade and the ICC has allowed it to stay. But the Australians, who have no idea how to bowl it suddenly conclude that its illegal. That is hypocrisy at its best.

Surfer
July 31, 2009, 12:10 AM
It's perception though RazabQ. Most offies cannot bowl a doosra AND control the ball without noticeably straightening their elbow. E.g. Shoaib Malik, Johan Botha, etc. It's an incredibly difficult delivery to bowl. There are a select few who obviously can keep it below 15 degrees, like Saqi, Saint Harby and Murali. Their anatomy or level of control is such that it allows them to do it. Now I'm not Ashley Mallett and I can neither speak for him, nor do I necessarily share his opinion, but I would guess that they think that it's pretty much impossible for someone to bowl a doosra without bending and straightening the arm.

Like I said, I'm sure tunes will change once someone actually manages to bowl a doosra in OZ.

There, you said it. There are some things in each sport that only the experts can do. A lot of spinners can not spin the ball as much as Warne could. Should the rest of the world declare Warne's deliveries as illegal? As long as the deliveries are bowled within the rules prescribed by the ICC, they are legal. And the expert Aussie coaches, who could not produce a half decent spinner since Warne, should try and develop their own skills than point fingers at others.

chol_bd123
August 4, 2009, 10:41 AM
the aussies are a little too narrow minded. just because they cant do it doesnt mean other's can't

By that what exactly is a doosra. Can anyone provide me a youtube video.
ANd is there a doosra for a legspinner.

Purbasha T
August 4, 2009, 04:23 PM
these aussies are just losers!! and wimps

Don't generalise. :)

uss01
August 6, 2009, 09:03 PM
No it's not. Just some ideas being exchanged at some conference. I think you'e being racist by saying these Aussies are racist. WTF, so white people can't have opinions on anything without being racist? I understand if you disagree with these people but why bring racism to it without having substantial evidence. They didnt' say anything like like since the doosra was invented by a player from Pakistan we should ban it.





For those who cant read english, translation:

?

B-l-a-t-a-n-t R-a-c-i-s-m!

MysoreHuli
August 7, 2009, 05:30 AM
With no sucessor for Shane Warne, this is a lam eexcuse by the Aussies.

OZGOD
August 7, 2009, 02:15 PM
There, you said it. There are some things in each sport that only the experts can do. A lot of spinners can not spin the ball as much as Warne could. Should the rest of the world declare Warne's deliveries as illegal? As long as the deliveries are bowled within the rules prescribed by the ICC, they are legal. And the expert Aussie coaches, who could not produce a half decent spinner since Warne, should try and develop their own skills than point fingers at others.

Amazing how a decision by Ozzie coaches to make a determination as to what type of deliveries to teach to their players has somehow been construed as a "pointing the finger at others". I'm pretty sure we're entitled to deciding what to or not to teach our bowlers. Also, you seem to be treating me as Ashley Mallett when I had already mentioned that I don't care if people chuck the ball, scratch it with a can opener or whatever as long as the ICC reckons its all good. I think there's a bit of Aussie hate clouding your judgment mate. :)

Eshen
November 30, 2009, 04:56 PM
Jason Krejza produces one that goes the other way. And gets away scot-free

http://www.cricinfo.com/page2/content/story/437267.html

Veteran Australian radio commentator Jim Maxwell said it hit a crack, Ed Cowan, who was playing in the game, said it hit the footmarks; and the news quickly spread: an Australian bowled an unplayable doosra. Nathan Hauritz then said he had one, but people ignored him.

Tim Coyle, Krejza's coach at Tasmania, stood up and made everyone feel better: "It is not a doosra, it is as simple as that".

Problem solved.

Coyle went on to say, "Jason Krejza has a special delivery that can't be compared with a bent-elbow doosra. People need to go and have a look at what he bowls. He bowls this ball that goes the other way exactly the same way as his offbreak, so to me it is not a doosra."

Thank you, Tim Coyle. Of course it isn't a doosra. How silly. It is an as-yet-unnamed mystery ball. Australian fans all let out a sigh of relief.

Eshen
November 30, 2009, 05:13 PM
And here is video evidence - Krejza bowling doosra!

Jason Krejza bowls Khawaja with a doosra
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/miY4CnYXIaI&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/miY4CnYXIaI&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Neel Here
November 30, 2009, 08:18 PM
It's not only Aussies who think Doosra is illegal though,

Spin great Bedi blasts ICC over doosra row

bishen bedi has or had an aussie wife and he thinks of himself as an australian.

he can be generally trusted to give the oz viewpoint only.

Eshen
December 3, 2009, 03:00 PM
Now Pointing wants Hauritz to bowl doosra! No respect for Terry Jenner and Co! :D

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/sport/ponting-wants-nathan-hauritz-to-unveil-the-the-doosra/story-e6frg7rx-1225805135796

Tigers_eye
December 3, 2009, 04:00 PM
After pontings comment Ashley Mallet heads to the pub with his buddies. For some reason Bedi was not sited there. I wonder ....

Neel Here
December 5, 2009, 05:47 AM
http://www.cricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/435363.html

Three cheers for the crackdown on chucking

India seem to have made a start to combat illegal actions by allowing umpires to call bowlers on the field

Harsha Bhogle

November 20, 2009
Comments: 56 | Text size: A | A
Rajesh Pawar bowls, West Zone v East Zone, Duleep Trophy semi-final, Mumbai, 1st day, January 30, 2009
Rajesh Pawar is one of a bunch of players to have been no-balled for suspect actions this season © Cricinfo Ltd
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News : After Veragi, Pawar called for suspect action

So umpires in India have started calling bowlers for chucking, and it is nice to see a forgotten law being implemented. Some bowlers, especially those who have played first-class cricket for eight or 10 years, might choose to disagree with the current practice. They are entitled to be a bit confused, but really, in our part of the world we have no alternative. In law, in spirit and in fairness, bowling has to be a straight-arm exercise, and that definition has been mutilated over the years. I suspect the reason umpires have started calling bowlers is not because, during an off-season revision, they discovered a law that seemed abandoned, or because they feel very strongly about it, but simply because there is now a list of offenders and umpires have been given the freedom to call them. It is a welcome change.

Bowlers might complain that they were fine all this time and that it is a bit unfair to call them now. But the law hasn't changed, merely the tools for its implementation. With fixed cameras at every first-class game, there is no place to hide anymore, and in any case the argument against unfairness suffers when confronted with the number of wickets that have been obtained with illegal actions over the years. In truth it had become an epidemic and had reached a stage where if we saw a finger spinner, rather than look at how good he was, we were overjoyed that he actually bowled with a straight arm. That is exactly the feeling I had when I first saw Shakib Al Hasan, the talented Bangladeshi cricketer. That he was a good bowler was almost secondary; that he didn't bend his arm was a surprise.

The idea of calling a bowler on the field is sound for at least a couple of reasons. The current procedure at the ICC is cumbersome and has an in-built failure mechanism. Umpires can only report bowlers, and if they report them frequently enough (and they can keep bowling till then), the bowlers have to, after undergoing remedial action, demonstrate the legality of their action before cameras, in an artificial situation. That is easily done. Now umpires are looking at what a bowler does in tense, sometimes desperate, situations, and that is the best indicator of how clean his action is at that moment. A bowler might bowl five clean deliveries and let one slip through. Only the on-field umpires can catch the moment.



Now umpires are looking at what a bowler does in tense, sometimes desperate, situations, and that is the best indicator of how clean his action is at that moment. A bowler might bowl five clean deliveries and let one slip through. Only the on-field umpires can catch the moment



India has actually done a commendable job by shortlisting bowlers with suspect actions, based on video footage, inviting them to the National Cricket Academy for remedial action and warning them that future transgressions will invite a no-ball call from an umpire. Bowlers therefore are aware that they are under the scanner, and that, in effect, takes much of the sting out of their argument. Now if everybody took care of this at domestic level, we would have few problems at the international level, where currently bowlers seem to enjoy greater latitude.

What this tells me is that intent is often the starting point, and therefore the stumbling block, for change. Intent has led to this action against one of the two epidemics in our cricket. Now we must look at the second - the problem with cricketers' ages. When I see the age against a player's name on some of the graphics, I cringe. It is embarrassing. In all fairness, once players are playing international cricket it shouldn't matter what number goes against their name in the age column, since it is one player's ability versus another. And irrespective of what a certificate says, the body knows its real age and so it knows when to send out the right signals. The problem is at the Under-19 level and lower, where you see players of every vintage on the field.

So either we crack down on players very early - difficult because local administrators and doctors are pretty strong and willing accomplices, or we reduce the importance given to Under-19 cricket. Today, because of the attention, and the resulting monetary benefit, there is a temptation to stay 19 for just a little while longer! It is unfair on genuine 17-year-olds because a two- or three-year age gap can be very large at that level.

I'm waiting to see a news report that says an Under-19 cricketer was banned for three years for being found over-age.

_Rafi_
December 5, 2009, 07:29 AM
I am not against doosra but i dont support the way it is bowled by Murali, Ajmal, Harbhajan and Botha. They all hv suspected action. Proper off-spin action should be like Hauritz, Riad's action.
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Neel Here
December 5, 2009, 09:58 AM
that could be the reason why harbhajan has stopped bowling doosras for about 5-6 years now.

auntu
December 5, 2009, 12:17 PM
@ Eshen II

They racist too.
I second that.

Neel Here
December 5, 2009, 12:31 PM
@ Eshen II

They racist too.

if you mean indians, you are doing a disservice to both bedi and india.
bedi just lives in india, in everything else he is as indian as andrew symonds. :-p

he will have something to say if he finds out that you think he is an indian !