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Miraz
January 18, 2010, 11:36 AM
I am quite impressed to see the average speed of Shafiul, Shahadat and Rubel trio. While Rubel is regularly clocking mid 140 KPH, Shafiul is not too far behind at high 130 to low 140 KPH. Our Shahadat after mighty grunts can reach up to 132-134 KPH with average speed around mid 120.

I think the speed is there and if they can control their line and length and add few variations, Bangladesh will have a good enough pace attack to challenge opposition in any condition. Shahadat and Shafiul actually has good variations, now it's up to Rubel to learn the trade properly.

The speed with which Indian seamers are bowling are very much comparable to our bowlers. Shafiul and Rubel are in fact tad quicker than Sreesanth and Zaheer. Ishant is at par with Shafiul, Rubel is probably the quickest among the lot.


Now if we look at other sub-continent pacers, I don't think we are too far behind in terms of speed.

Sri Lanka

Kulasekera - Average mid 120 with highest speed in the range of mid 130
Welegedera - Average low 130 and highest mid 140
Thushara - Average mid 120 and highest mid 130.

Pakistani pacers have better average speed than other sub-continent pacers, but that was always the case. However, Asif and Gul bowls in the range of high 120 to high 130, not too far ahead of our bowlers while Mohammd Aamer regularly clocked 140 Ks with intelligent variations.

_Rafi_
January 18, 2010, 11:49 AM
We have also some decent bench warmers too.
Robin can reach 135-40
Same about Tapash and Dollar
Mashrafe and Talha can bowl around 140. Yeah thats impressive

Neel Here
January 18, 2010, 11:50 AM
both ishant and sree have lost quite a few k's. ishant used to bowl in the low 140's and sree in high 130's. may be they will go back to those speeds in more conducive conditions. zaheer has slowed considerably with age. he is past 31 now. he used to bowl at mid 140's for the first 3-4 years of his career.

expect rubel and shafiul to add around 5k's when they bowl in SA or oz.

sri lanka's fastest bowler at the moment is dammika prasad who bowls at high 140's, touching 150 now and then, on sub-continent wicket no less !!

in the sub-continent, purely in terms of pace
pak>>rest
SL> other two
BD>=Ind (as long as rubel plays)

bangla-red
January 18, 2010, 11:51 AM
Aamer can bowl more than 145kph I think.

Mash and Rubel are our fastest, the only that bowl in 140kph zone.

_Rafi_
January 18, 2010, 11:51 AM
And also young Emon has decent pace as well as 16-17 years old Abul

hbk619
January 18, 2010, 11:53 AM
the ramanayeke coach made shahadat a kid bowler...and then shahadat realised that bowling intest cricket is not about on line and length...it's also about the accuracy and the pace....after couple of months, he came back to his own action which is gr8.....rubel hossain is the own, who needs to go back to domestic cricket ......i'm impressed with shafiul(brother of inswinger mashrafee..lol )

revolver
January 18, 2010, 11:59 AM
amir is a beast

al Furqaan
January 18, 2010, 12:16 PM
i don't fully agree Miraz bhai with some of the speed ranges you've posted. but i too am impressed with the speed of our pacers, and more so by the fact that shafiul did quite well with the red ball so far and rubel too didn't at least get embarassed like sharapova at Lords.

but this Test here are the speeds I saw:

Rubel - max (144), average (138-140)
Shahadat - max (137), average (128-130)
Shafiul - max (135), average (130)

the following are not from this Test, but general observations:

Ishant - max (142), average (132-135)
Zaheer - max (140), average (128-130)
Sreesanth - max (145), average (130-132)
Walegedara - max (?), average (135)
Kulasekara - max (135), average (125)
Malinga - max (142), average (135)
Fernando - max (148), average (140)
Asif - max (137), average (130)
Gul - max (145), average (135)
Aamer - max (146), average (135-138)

Neel Here
January 18, 2010, 12:21 PM
malinga- max(147) avg (138)

asif seems to be a bit low ?

dammika prasad - max(151) avg(142)

Beamer
January 18, 2010, 12:28 PM
I too am impressed with this trio. The way Shahadat had fought back to reclaim his old spot is encouraging to say the least. Shafi is going to be a good one and I am very high on Rubel. He is a bit raw, but he has the ingredients to be a good fast bowler, who bowls in short bursts. All three have good pace. You must have that if you want to be successful in intl cricket and escpecially for tests ( otherwise Rasel with his accuracy will be a fixture in our line-up ). They must carry on this momentum and keep working to improve every aspects of their game. All three have something different to offer and that is a more significant thing to observe.

AsifTheManRahman
January 18, 2010, 12:34 PM
but this Test here are the speeds I saw:

Rubel - max (144), average (138-140)
Shahadat - max (137), average (128-130)
Shafiul - max (135), average (130)

That's been my observation with Rubel and Shahadat, however, I've seen Shafiul clock 137 in the Indian inning.

_Rafi_
January 18, 2010, 01:03 PM
btw we are talking like Pakistani

manali
January 18, 2010, 01:09 PM
Shahadat Hussain was very impressive. 5 fer against Indian batsmen is very good performance. Hopefully Mortaza will be back soon for tigers.

rashed411
January 18, 2010, 01:09 PM
i don't fully agree Miraz bhai with some of the speed ranges you've posted. but i too am impressed with the speed of our pacers, and more so by the fact that shafiul did quite well with the red ball so far and rubel too didn't at least get embarassed like sharapova at Lords.

but this Test here are the speeds I saw:

Rubel - max (144), average (138-140)
Shahadat - max (137), average (128-130)
Shafiul - max (135), average (130)

the following are not from this Test, but general observations:

Ishant - max (142), average (132-135)
Zaheer - max (140), average (128-130)
Sreesanth - max (145), average (130-132)
Walegedara - max (?), average (135)
Kulasekara - max (135), average (125)
Malinga - max (142), average (135)
Fernando - max (148), average (140)
Asif - max (137), average (130)
Gul - max (145), average (135)
Aamer - max (146), average (135-138)

shafiul clocked 139kph in Tri Series.

al Furqaan
January 18, 2010, 01:09 PM
That's been my observation with Rubel and Shahadat, however, I've seen Shafiul clock 137 in the Indian inning.

he did clock 139 in the ODIs, but the quickest i saw in tests was 135 in cricinfo commentary.

Neel Here
January 18, 2010, 01:12 PM
Shahadat Hussain was very impressive. 5 fer against Indian batsmen is very good performance. Hopefully Mortaza will be back soon for tigers.

I doubt he will play in test matches for much longer.

al Furqaan
January 18, 2010, 01:15 PM
I too am impressed with this trio. The way Shahadat had fought back to reclaim his old spot is encouraging to say the least. Shafi is going to be a good one and I am very high on Rubel. He is a bit raw, but he has the ingredients to be a good fast bowler, who bowls in short bursts. All three have good pace. You must have that if you want to be successful in intl cricket and escpecially for tests ( otherwise Rasel with his accuracy will be a fixture in our line-up ). They must carry on this momentum and keep working to improve every aspects of their game. All three have something different to offer and that is a more significant thing to observe.

the only other time we've ever gone into a test with three 135 kph pacers was first test in Dunedin back in 2008. sajid, rajib, mash.

this trio is overall quicker by a fair bit. and i think the most important thing is the variation they bring.

shahadat and rubel both get reverse, with rubel's being more pronounced. shahadat has the best bouncer, rubel has the best yorkers. rubel also gets conventional swing. shahadat gets the odd ball to bounce due to his height and that accounted for the gambhir wicket and carbon copy dravid wicket in 2007. shafi, i haven't seen enough of to comment but will hopefully today. shahadat also seems to be able to jag the ball back into the right hander off the seam.

if we can get sajidul back, he will add variation as a pacy, left arm swinger.

if they all develop, mash can become an ODI specialist, and simaltaneously be our Test bowling coach/consultant!

rashed411
January 18, 2010, 01:19 PM
the only other time we've ever gone into a test with three 135 kph pacers was first test in Dunedin back in 2008. sajid, rajib, mash.

this trio is overall quicker by a fair bit. and i think the most important thing is the variation they bring.

shahadat and rubel both get reverse, with rubel's being more pronounced. shahadat has the best bouncer, rubel has the best yorkers. rubel also gets conventional swing. shahadat gets the odd ball to bounce due to his height and that accounted for the gambhir wicket and carbon copy dravid wicket in 2007. shafi, i haven't seen enough of to comment but will hopefully today. shahadat also seems to be able to jag the ball back into the right hander off the seam.

if we can get sajidul back, he will add variation as a pacy, left arm swinger.

if they all develop, mash can become an ODI specialist, and simaltaneously be our Test bowling coach/consultant!
Shafiul is able to swing away from left hander. He was troubling Ghambir with that.

_Rafi_
January 18, 2010, 01:19 PM
I doubt he will play in test matches for much longer.

i dont rate Mash a good test bowler. But he is very good in shorter version

cricman
January 18, 2010, 01:20 PM
I hope they watched the way Zaheer was bowling yesterday, that Man is Bull ... He was bowling a Marathon like Spell and didn't Tire out and Was Bowling Faster as we went along

He went from 130K Average to 137K average by his 7th over

rashed411
January 18, 2010, 01:21 PM
I hope they watched the way Zaheer was bowling yesterday, that Man is Bull ... He was bowling a Marathon like Spell and didn't Tire out and Was Bowling Faster as we went along

He went from 130K Average to 137K average by his 7th over

Marathon Spell? he only bowled 7 overs how many overs Shadat bowled in his spell? and who got 5for?

Gowza
January 18, 2010, 03:08 PM
i don't fully agree Miraz bhai with some of the speed ranges you've posted. but i too am impressed with the speed of our pacers, and more so by the fact that shafiul did quite well with the red ball so far and rubel too didn't at least get embarassed like sharapova at Lords.

but this Test here are the speeds I saw:

Rubel - max (144), average (138-140)
Shahadat - max (137), average (128-130)
Shafiul - max (135), average (130)

the following are not from this Test, but general observations:

Ishant - max (142), average (132-135)
Zaheer - max (140), average (128-130)
Sreesanth - max (145), average (130-132)
Walegedara - max (?), average (135)
Kulasekara - max (135), average (125)
Malinga - max (142), average (135)
Fernando - max (148), average (140)
Asif - max (137), average (130)
Gul - max (145), average (135)
Aamer - max (146), average (135-138)

aamer definitely hit 150kph+ a number of times in australia this summer although i don't think he hits those speeds every match. everyone knows ishant has hit over 150kph in australia but again he doesn't do it every match and has definitely lost some pace, malinga apparently use to bowl around 150kph at a time as well.

shafiul was bowling around 135kph average in the tri-series, hopefully he can do the same in test cricket. outside of the national squad sajidul and emon have good pace, i think subashis ihas a bit of pace as well.

SS
January 18, 2010, 03:20 PM
Bangladesh pace bowling is improving..but we need to improve more as we all will agree...but are we ready to standardize these pacers with the top levels yet..I guess we are not there yet...
Our pacers and pipeline pacers are not getting enough overall support to retain their skills and improve for some 'reasons'. But overall we are going at a slow moderate pace but still way behind than other sub continent pacers in overall performances.

cricman
January 18, 2010, 03:30 PM
Marathon Spell? he only bowled 7 overs how many overs Shadat bowled in his spell? and who got 5for?

No He Bowled 9 overs on trot and looked ready to bowl a few more

tkandi4
January 18, 2010, 04:19 PM
While we are discussing about pacers, could someone tell us about Nazmul's ranking? Shouldn't we add his name in the list (be it shorter or longer version of the game)?

BANFAN
January 18, 2010, 04:46 PM
Pakistan probably has the best pace attack amongst the sub-continent teams. Their bowlers have better control & variation as well.

nycpro96
January 18, 2010, 04:47 PM
Pakistan probably has the best pace attack amongst the sub-continent teams. Their bowlers have better control & variation as well.

They have one of the best pace attacks in the world.

Zeeshan
January 18, 2010, 05:15 PM
good observation.

what variables factor into speed is another interesting point. body mass, psychological emotion, proper body mechanics, height of bowler, diet, etcetera... :)

Dhakablues
January 18, 2010, 05:30 PM
Once upon a time there were two roommates in the Indian MRF academy. The two bolwers returned home after weeks of training. One was a requirement for the national team soon after his training completion, the other was somewhat optional for Mohammedan. The latter was called Shumon and the former was called Chaminda Vaas. And we know the rest....

Morale of the story? What ZeeshanM said is what Chaminda Vaas also told BD pace bolwers.. that they need to change diet and work out heavily to build muscles to be able to bowl consistently. Talent alone cant survive if the frame is non-existent. If you look into the pacers from Pakistan, Sri Lanka, South Africal, England,, they all have good height, good physique and body mechanics to support their bowling talent. Unfortunately, BD bowlers are not known for their physical fitness compared to other international grade bowlers. Hence, you see Rasel/Nazmul/Talha/Sajid/Safaque like players breaking down in injuries and never gets back to their usual rythm.

Zeeshan
January 18, 2010, 05:45 PM
Thanks db...

Well, Rubel is built. But if we go by the hierarchial command center down the line activity of the brain...dunno if there is a technical term for that....then if Rubel can work on finesse maybe he will be destructive.

I say Rubel take boxing or something like that as hobby. Things like skipping, body bag hitting, etcetera will show him line and length analogy. Or any coordination drill like kali, fencing, ping-pong may also help.

And no Orphy, ping pong is not GAy.

AsifTheManRahman
January 18, 2010, 06:03 PM
Actually, you don't need to be too ripped to bowl fast. In fact, you probably shouldn't be. Fitness and sustenance are more important and fast bowlers need to be physically flexible. There's a reason why many FB's are tall and lanky, at least when they start off. A good diet and gym work to strengthen the shoulder and the back are definitely important.

Zeeshan
January 18, 2010, 06:13 PM
Indeed and indeed, pisaach mama.

Although when I said ripped I had the benefits of a discus thrower in mind, now if we could trampoline off that to slinging, which Rubel tries to characterize as maybe extra muscle factor will play a roll in the momentum of it? :scratch head:

chol_bd123
January 18, 2010, 07:48 PM
Our bowlers just need to learn how to control line and length. Pace is nothing without that

beshideshi
January 18, 2010, 07:55 PM
If you look at Al Furqaan's analysis about speed of bowlers, you can see how unimportant pace can be. Mohd. Asif, one of the slower one in the lot causes the most trouble amongst batsmen, swinging the ball both ways and getting wickets.
I would rather have three bowlers in mid 120s with loads of swing/accuracy/venom.

PS: The above WITH pace would be devastating, but if we are to chose between pace or Swing/accuracy we should choose the latter

al Furqaan
January 18, 2010, 08:41 PM
If you look at Al Furqaan's analysis about speed of bowlers, you can see how unimportant pace can be. Mohd. Asif, one of the slower one in the lot causes the most trouble amongst batsmen, swinging the ball both ways and getting wickets.
I would rather have three bowlers in mid 120s with loads of swing/accuracy/venom.

PS: The above WITH pace would be devastating, but if we are to chose between pace or Swing/accuracy we should choose the latter

this is true, but a balance is the best thing.

Pakistan's attack when on point is easily the best pace attack from the Subcontinent and one of the best in the world. Asif gets the ball to seam off the wicket, gets good bounce due to his height, even though he normally operates at just 130 k. But he has the capability to crank it up to 135-138, which is always useful. Aamer has the pace, and is a lefty. Not sure if he can reverse swing it, but he can swing it conventionally. Then there is Gul is who is off form now, but on his day is a very good bowler. He too has some pace, tho not quite at Aamer's level. But he has the reverse swing.

What we have to do is get Shafi, Rubel, some refinement. Right now it seems that Shafi is more polished than Rubel in terms of putting the ball in the right place. But we need that tearaway bowler like Shahadat who can snap up wickets in quick time, and no pay too much attention to his economy rate. Hopefully Rubel can be a another striker, while Shafi keeps things tight.

You see a guy like Mortaza had to have a good economy rate, because he only took wickets every 65 balls, and that was when in prime condition. Now its dropped to eveyr 76 balls. But Shahadat strikes basically every 60 deliveries, and if he can keep it the late 50s, he can afford to go for some runs every now and then. Even this match, his middle 10 overs were quite miserly, with only the first and last 2 overs being expensive.

Gowza
January 18, 2010, 08:49 PM
BD pacers are bowling quick enough nowadays, it's now an issue of line and length as well as variation. how many BD bowlers bowl 130kph+ regularly now? probably: sajidul, emon, rubel, shafiul, even nazmul, dolar, robin, subashis, robiul, the u19 pacers, sumon saha, robin would hit 130kph+ fairly regularly and mash and shahadat have the capability it's just a matter of whether they want to or not. the pace is there, it's the other stuff that needs to fine tuned.

Beamer
January 18, 2010, 10:38 PM
Our pacers need to work out extensively to build bigger leg, back , shoulder and bum muscles. Strength training over years of hard work is a must. In order to avoid rigidity- stretching, yoga etc are also a must.

bujhee kom
January 18, 2010, 10:51 PM
Yeah, totally...I agree with all of you guys here! Thik bolechen!

sharifk
January 18, 2010, 11:02 PM
Once upon a time there were two roommates in the Indian MRF academy. The two bolwers returned home after weeks of training. One was a requirement for the national team soon after his training completion, the other was somewhat optional for Mohammedan. The latter was called Shumon and the former was called Chaminda Vaas. And we know the rest....

Morale of the story? What ZeeshanM said is what Chaminda Vaas also told BD pace bolwers.. that they need to change diet and work out heavily to build muscles to be able to bowl consistently. Talent alone cant survive if the frame is non-existent. If you look into the pacers from Pakistan, Sri Lanka, South Africal, England,, they all have good height, good physique and body mechanics to support their bowling talent. Unfortunately, BD bowlers are not known for their physical fitness compared to other international grade bowlers. Hence, you see Rasel/Nazmul/Talha/Sajid/Safaque like players breaking down in injuries and never gets back to their usual rythm.

of course fitness is important...but injuries are common to fast bowlers....lee, shoib akter, bond, flintoff who doesn't have injury problem, so why blame our bd bowlers with dietary and fitness related issues? it's all in our mind........accept it....

Gowza
January 18, 2010, 11:08 PM
pacers do get injured pretty regularly, look at the aussie attack over the summer. lee has been injured, hilfenhaus is also injured, siddle had a hamstring strain, bracken has been out for ages. also pacers areound the world such as malinga, fidel edwards, taylor, steyn was injured not very long ago. pacers get injured quite frequently, some struggle their whole career ala bond, mortaza and lee (especially the 2nd half of his career).

i don't know their diets or training regimes so can't really comment on whether they're doing the right things or not but it's true that pacers get injured frequently.

wiseshah
January 19, 2010, 12:13 AM
if ishant sharma is called rf bowler, what rubel will be called? is he still rfm bowler? or RF bowler? i didnt notice yet. can some one verify?