PDA

View Full Version : Siddons confident in home condition


Murad
February 26, 2010, 10:24 AM
"At the start of this year, we knew we had to play the better teams in the world, and I think we've fared pretty well," said Siddons. "In our conditions we play really well, we're a developing team and growing in confidence. England need to be at their best to beat us, but they've left a couple of key players behind. I'm thinking that could be the difference, but we'll have to wait and see."

Shakib Al Hasan, Bangladesh's captain, offered a respectful "no comment" when quizzed on the thorny issue of Strauss's absence from this tour, but his coach was unapologetically forthright. "People have their own choices to make, and organisations have their choices to make, about whether they come here or not," he said. "But my thoughts are that I hope it bites them on the bum at the end of the series. And that we can say 'don't come here next time as well'."

"I hope that the opener that they've brought in isn't good enough, and that they fail at that part of the game," added Siddons. It wasn't entirely clear whether he was referring to Cook or his probable batting partner Craig Kieswetter, who warmed up for his debut with a hard-hitting 143 on Tuesday, but the sentiment could easily have been applied to both.

"We know very little about Kieswetter, apart from what we've seen this week," said Siddons. "We don't know a lot, but we're hoping the conditions out here will bring him undone. Our strength is our strength, so we're not worried about the opposition. We'll bowl and bat as well as we can, and see what the outcome can be."

Whatever transpires, Siddons is certain that his team is on an upward trajectory after far too many years of languishing near the foot of the world rankings. In July 2009, they won their first Test series against a senior Test nation, albeit an unrecognisable West Indies side in the throes of an industrial dispute, while more recently they competed hard in a tri-series against India and Sri Lanka before suffering a set-back on their tour of New Zealand. But even that trip had its notable moments, as Bangladesh posted 408 in their first innings thanks to a maiden century from Mahmudullah, before Shakib's second-innings 100 took them improbably close in their run-chase.

"In every game, I don't look for wins, I look for performances and achievements from our players and I'm getting that more and more with every series," said Siddons. "Most of the guys will say we had a bad series in New Zealand. But I look at the three hundreds we scored and the two five-fors we took, and the way we played out the fifth day of the Test. With one good session, we'd have won the game, and if we'd taken our chances, we might even have won one or maybe two ODIs.

"The achievements every day are what I look for, and that's why I love this job," he added. "Turning up every day, I'm waiting for someone to perform and do something we've been working on. Our boys are 22-23 years old, and you look around the world, most good players at that age are in and out of a team and not performing. I've got a team full of those types of player, and I can see England coming here when they are 26, and people saying you haven't got a chance. Unless they improve a lot."

Before succeeding Dav Whatmore in the summer of 2007, Siddons spent three years in the Australian set-up including a spell as assistant coach to John Buchanan, but the challenge of fine-tuning a team of world-beaters offered nothing like the same job satisfaction as his current role.

"It's a lot tougher in that you go to the games and you're not sure how you'll perform, but it's what makes me turn up to work every day," he said. "I love that part of the game, and that part of coaching, developing players. And [a developing team] is what this team still is. I wouldn't say we are improving every series - we're still a team of 22-23 years old so we're still quite capable of a little slip in a session, or a 5-10 over block where teams exploit us - but we're getting better at not having those bad patches."

With Tamim Iqbal emerging as a fully fledged talent, alongside the maturing Mahmudullah and Shakib, whom Siddons referred to as the "second-best spinner in the world, and the best allrounder", Bangladesh have a side with the raw materials to cause an upset. But one man who won't be taking part is Mohammad Ashraful, who mustered 62 runs in six innings in New Zealand, and has requested - and been granted - a break from the front line. "I spoke to Ash at the end of the New Zealand series," said Siddons. "He said he wanted a rest and I thought I'd talked him out of it, so I'm not sure what's happened in last three or four days. But he's made his decision and I respect it, but I'd love to have him at 3 and 4 in our Test and ODI teams. He's the little diamond in the rough we are looking for, that we need to step up along with Tamim, Mushfiq [Rahim] and Shakib. Those guys have really stepped up, so if Ash can fill the gap, we're a formidable batting team."

Sunday's first ODI could also see a return to the fray for Bangladesh's leading fast bowler, Mashrafe Mortaza, who has been out of action since July following knee surgery. He got through eight overs in England's second warm-up in Fatullah, and Siddons is ready to put his faith in the medical bulletins, and his own observations from Friday's nets session.

"I saw him running, I wouldn't say he's 100% fit but he's pretty close," he said. "He was bowling beautifully, and saw a little footage of him from the other day and he looked quite good with the new ball. My only concern is how he comes back in the middle overs, but he's a key part of our side when he's fit. So we'll probably roll the dice a bit and give him a game, and hope he comes up trumps with the new ball."

http://www.cricinfo.com/bdeshveng2010/content/current/story/450148.html

deshifan
February 26, 2010, 10:30 AM
First do it, then say it.

~ Russian proverb

One World
February 26, 2010, 10:30 AM
"In every game, I don't look for wins, I look for performances and achievements from our players and I'm getting that more and more with every series," said Siddons. "Most of the guys will say we had a bad series in New Zealand. But I look at the three hundreds we scored and the two five-fors we took, and the way we played out the fifth day of the Test. With one good session, we'd have won the game, and if we'd taken our chances, we might even have won one or maybe two ODIs.


I think this is where Whatmore differed from SIddons as DW looked for winning with whatever resources he is provided. He never quarreled with his tool. Siddons on the other hand is a very good coach who likes to use the B word in an excess :).

Tiger Manc
February 26, 2010, 10:33 AM
Looks like Mash might start then. I like the way Siddons stays positive, but I am surprised at the fact he wanted Ash to remain in the lineup.

rahat90
February 26, 2010, 10:39 AM
why does siddons always talk positve of the bd team?
i mean dont get me wrong, being positive and having confidence is a good thing.
but i always sense a hint of arrogance in siddons speach.
'formidable batting line up'.
if only he is able to review a series in this sense will be much more satisfying then previewing a series in this sense

al-Sagar
February 26, 2010, 10:40 AM
Looks like Mash might start then. I like the way Siddons stays positive, but I am surprised at the fact he wanted Ash to remain in the lineup.

any coach would like to have sachin tendulkar in his team even if he is out of form or in a bad patch. ash is the sachin tendulkar of bangladesh.

Farhad
February 26, 2010, 10:52 AM
I like his confidence, but sometimes I hope he would stay quiet until after the series. If youre really eager to say something, say it during the series, kinda like Shakib. I have a feeling the only bum thats going to be bit (sounds a lil dirty when said this way, doesnt it?) is ours...

Aritro
February 26, 2010, 10:53 AM
any coach would like to have sachin tendulkar in his team even if he is out of form or in a bad patch. ash is the sachin tendulkar of bangladesh.

I'm not sure the comparision holds up on any level any more.

His horrendous test record is well documented, but there was a time when he could lay claim to being 'our Tendulkar' due to his talismanic role in the team. However, we've now got four batsmen who are FAR more likely to make runs for us, and to do it through their consistent quality as batsmen rather than their capacity to be mercurial on one day a year.

In fact, I would say that during recent series Shakib, Mushfiq, Tamim and Mahmudullah have all been better than Ashraful has ever been during any stretch of matches at any stage in his career.

Aritro
February 26, 2010, 10:55 AM
First do it, then say it.

~ Russian proverb

I agree with this post. There's some nice quotes in there to chew over but he'd have done well to keep shtum about England sending a weakened team until after we've put a win or two past them.

B_IKHAN_71
February 26, 2010, 10:58 AM
^^^ Same ere y wud u keep ash when his performing bad every game ., looks like ash himself wanted to get dropped and if i may add could be the smartest decision his made his whole life., Hopefully This is the start of a new beginning for ashraful where changes his career around ., n comes back a different and a better player mentally n physically . inshallah x
All in all this series i hope other then riyad tamim mushfiq n shakib other players step up too
and take the fight to the english.. :flag::flag::flag::flag:

al-Sagar
February 26, 2010, 11:00 AM
I'm not sure the comparision holds up on any level any more.

His horrendous test record is well documented, but there was a time when he could lay claim to being 'our Tendulkar' due to his talismanic role in the team. However, we've now got four batsmen who are FAR more likely to make runs for us, and to do it through their consistent quality as batsmen rather than their capacity to be mercurial on one day a year.

In fact, I would say that during recent series Shakib, Mushfiq, Tamim and Mahmudullah have all been better than Ashraful has ever been during any stretch of matches at any stage in his career.

talent wise ashraful could have been our sachin. but performance wise he is not.

Eshen
February 26, 2010, 11:08 AM
Has he seen how pathetic NZ team looked this morning?! This is the worst ever NZ team I have ever seen. But Siddons wants to brag about being whitewashed by them!

Aritro
February 26, 2010, 11:10 AM
talent wise ashraful could have been our sachin. but performance wise he is not.

He made a superb ton when he was 17 years and 5 days but I wouldn't neccessarily take that as a sign that he's got the sort of talent that rivals the greats. When assessing how much natural talent he has, it's important to keep in perspective what a horrendously poor batting average 23 is after 55 matches, especially when you consider that he's actually averaged a mere 15 over a stretch of two whole years.

The thing is that his performances are so completely incongruous with his natural physical gifts in terms of reflexes and hand-eye co-ordination that it's difficult to know how much talent he actually has, but I think it's fair to say someone who really had that much talent, no matter what their mental shortcomings, would find a way to average more than 23 after 55 tests, and 15 in the last two years.

Aritro
February 26, 2010, 11:12 AM
Has he seen how pathetic NZ team looked this morning?! This is the worst ever NZ team I have ever seen. But Siddons wants to brag about being whitewashed by them!

I'm not sure he's really done that at all?

I'm also finding it increasingly difficult to understand the perspective that we haven't been mproving appreciably under Siddons.

dolcevita
February 26, 2010, 11:21 AM
Need field performance
Come on Shak , it is a great opportunity to show to the world your talent
<br />Posted via BC Mobile Edition (iPhone)

dash
February 26, 2010, 11:28 AM
i like siddong.......having a good verbal go at the pommies........one thing the aussies are good at

ahms
February 26, 2010, 11:41 AM
why does siddons always talk positve of the bd team?
i mean dont get me wrong, being positive and having confidence is a good thing.
but i always sense a hint of arrogance in siddons speach.
'formidable batting line up'.
if only he is able to review a series in this sense will be much more satisfying then previewing a series in this sense

If coach is not positive frame of mind how else our players can stay positive. His attitude (if u say arrogance) is reflecting in our players. It has been good thing so far. Classy players do need some level of arrogance in sports. Fortune favors the brave.

Ajfar
February 26, 2010, 11:44 AM
the bum thing was a bit too much, he should have waited till the end of the series. if at the end england murder us than that just proves their point and we look bad.

Farhad
February 26, 2010, 11:57 AM
Has he seen how pathetic NZ team looked this morning?! This is the worst ever NZ team I have ever seen. But Siddons wants to brag about being whitewashed by them!

Really? Then I guess youre less than one year old. Theyve had three scores less than that in Twenty20's within the past year. They've never been much of a Twenty20 side tbh...

I wouldnt knock on them for one Twenty20 match. Are you forgetting the Australians themselves scored 127 all out not even a month ago? How pathetic did they look then?

Eshen
February 26, 2010, 11:58 AM
I wouldnt knock on them for one Twenty20 match. Are you forgetting the Australians themselves scored 127 all out not even a month ago? How pathetic did they look then?
Nope, not writing them off based on a just a T20I, Blackcaps looked pathetic against us too. But we still could not beat them in a single match!

bura
February 26, 2010, 12:00 PM
its funny that people find positivism from Aftab's 15-20 some runs of 10 ball with 3 lives but not from couple of centuries and 5 fors in NZ's home condition. When was the last time someone from BD scored a century or took 5 fors or the team scored 400 runs in NZ? Had it in Whatmore's era we would have lost the test by an innings and 300 some runs. Even against mighty India we took 18 wickets!

I guess the coach should talk like Shewag. We don't have the capability to take 10 English wickets in ODIs...

Farhad
February 26, 2010, 12:01 PM
Nope, not writing them off based on a just a T20I, Blackcaps looked pathetic against us too. But we still could not beat them in a single match!

I watched the same games, mate. I think "pathetic" may be too strong a word...

Eshen
February 26, 2010, 12:03 PM
I watched the same games, mate. I think "pathetic" may be too strong a word...
Well, take it however you want to. But I think it's pretty safe to say this is the worst ever NZ team I have seen in a decade, especially with their weak batting side.

Eshen
February 26, 2010, 12:08 PM
Farhad, now this argument is becoming silly (calling me an infant :lol:).

It's ok, we don't have to agree with each other :)

Farhad
February 26, 2010, 12:11 PM
Farhad, now this argument is becoming silly (calling me an infant :lol:).

It's ok, we don't have to agree with each other :)

You call this an argument? I spend a lot of time on NFL boards. What we're doing is practically hugging :big_hug:

bura
February 26, 2010, 12:12 PM
Nope, not writing them off based on a just a T20I, Blackcaps looked pathetic against us too. But we still could not beat them in a single match!

that means we are playing better. Even India looked pathetic in couple sessions against us too... Certainly they are not the worst ever Indian team :)

But I agree this Nz side is pretty bad!

Beamer
February 26, 2010, 12:17 PM
I love his confidence in his young players. As a coach and developer of young players, this is exactly what you want your coach to do. He is loyal to his players as well. I am glad he fired the opening salvo. It also pokes a little bit at the Brits for their team selection. The pressure is on the English to perform to justify their selection. There is already a big debate about resting Strauss, and someone like Siddons is keenly aware of that. I am glad he stirred it up a bit. I would rather him do it than Sakib. I love the positiveness.

Beamer
February 26, 2010, 12:20 PM
the bum thing was a bit too much, he should have waited till the end of the series. if at the end england murder us than that just proves their point and we look bad.

Waiting till the end makes no sense. You always fire it up at the start. And, if England murders us, its him who looks bad, not the team. He has taken that burden on his shoulder. Its up to the team now to follow and back him up.

Farhad
February 26, 2010, 12:27 PM
But I agree this Nz side is pretty bad!

Not to keep harping on this, but I find it pretty odd that people consider NZ to be so weak. They went to the champions trophy final not even 4 months ago! :confused: And then they beat Pak in both the ODI and Test Series' right after that. Is this only because BD gave them a good fight?

Consider this the last post i give on the subject. Just find it odd, thats all...

Raynman
February 26, 2010, 12:36 PM
Not to keep harping on this, but I find it pretty odd that people consider NZ to be so weak. They went to the champions trophy final not even 4 months ago! :confused: And then they beat Pak in both the ODI and Test Series' right after that. Is this only because BD gave them a good fight?

Consider this the last post i give on the subject. Just find it odd, thats all...

I anticipate a tight ODI series between AUS and NZ. NZ just came off of a test match into T20 and the Aussies two straight T20I vs. WI.

However, NZ does have a pretty ordinary batting attack on paper. Franklin at #5?

Tigers_eye
February 26, 2010, 12:47 PM
Waiting till the end makes no sense. You always fire it up at the start. And, if England murders us, its him who looks bad, not the team. He has taken that burden on his shoulder. Its up to the team now to follow and back him up.
100% agree.

Our players are 20-25 year olds. They haven't rubbed the shoulders (challenged verbally) against the like of Pontings, Sanggakara, Collingwoods. What I mean is jabbed and counter jabbed. So the Coach took it upon himself to jabb around a little bit. If you guys follow ashes, you would know how to ruffle some feathers. That is what he is doing. This is a mental warfare. Someone has to fire from our end. Shakib will not cause then you and the entire world will consider him as bashful, arrogant, naive unfit captain.

As for those who don't like Siddons positive comments; did you like his negative comments when he came on board? You don't like his negative comments, don't like his positive comments, do you know what type of comments you like?

Tigers_eye
February 26, 2010, 12:49 PM
its funny that people find positivism from Aftab's 15-20 some runs of 10 ball with 3 lives but not from couple of centuries and 5 fors in NZ's home condition. When was the last time someone from BD scored a century or took 5 fors or the team scored 400 runs in NZ? Had it in Whatmore's era we would have lost the test by an innings and 300 some runs. Even against mighty India we took 18 wickets!

I guess the coach should talk like Shewag. We don't have the capability to take 10 English wickets in ODIs...
Can I nominate this as post of the week?

Pura fatai felsen bura mia.

Eshen
February 26, 2010, 12:55 PM
Alright Mijan bhai, you win, Siddons is entitled to talk all kind of trash. That means he can go overseas and then talk trash about our players, and he can come back home and talk trash about opponents :)

Trash talks should not matter as long the team show some improvement under him (I mean the team as a whole, not an individual there and an individual here).

bd fan
February 26, 2010, 12:55 PM
I think the reason why siddons wanted ashraful to remain in the team is because he is good friends with him and knows him the most out of all the players
i always see them both talkin

Tigers_eye
February 26, 2010, 01:00 PM
Alright Mijan bhai, you win, ...
"I feel like I win when I lose"

When you have a chance listen to the classic song. Waterloo by ABBA.

bura
February 26, 2010, 01:01 PM
100% agree.

Our players are 20-25 year olds. They haven't rubbed the shoulders (challenged verbally) against the like of Pontings, Sanggakara, Collingwoods. What I mean is jabbed and counter jabbed. So the Coach took it upon himself to jabb around a little bit. If you guys follow ashes, you would know how to ruffle some feathers. That is what he is doing. This is a mental warfare. Someone has to fire from our end. Shakib will not cause then you and the entire world will consider him as bashful, arrogant, naive unfit captain.

As for those who don't like Siddons positive comments; did you like his negative comments when he came on board? You don't like his negative comments, don't like his positive comments, do you know what type of comments you like?

hey I wanted to say that in next post. You stole my words! :lol:

revolver
February 26, 2010, 01:07 PM
i hope ash comes bak very good

bura
February 26, 2010, 01:09 PM
Alright Mijan bhai, you win, Siddons is entitled to talk all kind of trash. That means he can go overseas and then talk trash about our players, and he can come back home and talk trash about opponents :)

Trash talks should not matter as long the team show some improvement under him (I mean the team as a whole, not an individual there and an individual here).

and that is mutually exclusive? :o

we have shown plenty of improvements for the last couple of months. We creating more winning chances than before. But we are still losing cause couple of holes are still there. Like the num 3 pos in batting? Does any body has a solid solution for than? I would like to hear, cause the whole BD team is searching for it.

Fazal
February 26, 2010, 01:16 PM
Is bura Mashtuto Bhai of TE?

AsifTheManRahman
February 26, 2010, 01:16 PM
Can I nominate this as post of the week?

Pura fatai felsen bura mia.
Tiger bhai, bura is my childhood hero. Yes, mostly for the portion in bold.

Rabz
February 26, 2010, 01:18 PM
Mijan bhai, top post regarding Siddons choice of words. I also think thats the right way to go.

I guess the coach should talk like Shewag. We don't have the capability to take 10 English wickets in ODIs...

May be he should rather tell the batsmen that they cannot outscore the English.

Eshen
February 26, 2010, 01:19 PM
and that is mutually exclusive? :o
In case of Bangladesh team, seems so. Despite some individual achievements, the team don't seem to be working well as an unit. I think this was the main difference between our team and Black Caps in the last series.

we have shown plenty of improvements for the last couple of months. We creating more winning chances than before. But we are still losing cause couple of holes are still there. Like the num 3 pos in batting? Does any body has a solid solution for than? I would like to hear, cause the whole BD team is searching for it.
We have quite a few options to be trialed at #3 (ie Zunaed, Mushfiq, Naeem). But at same time, understand that there got to be a time limit for a trial. If you go on with an failed experiment for too long, you will end up hurting both the team and the player that is in trial.

AsifTheManRahman
February 26, 2010, 01:19 PM
Siddons talked about winning the ODI series and the Test before the NZ tour. We better win a couple of matches this time, or else...

Or else kisui na. I'll go back to peeling my own skin with a knife.

Beamer
February 26, 2010, 01:21 PM
I think we will appreciate Siddons and his work long after he is gone. When the core of this team come in to their prime, we will all look back and see what he has done with them. To a man, they all attribute to their individual improvement to him. Those are not my words, but our players. I will take our players word .Unless and until the individuals come of age, team won't come of age either. Its the players who make the team and he is the only coach we have ever had that is in process of making players. He is serving as coach/mentor/developer.

Fazal
February 26, 2010, 01:21 PM
Taklu beta ekhono Ashrful-ke niye shopno dekhe....

Ami Jantam Nera ekbaree bell tola jai.
Kintu ei nera to Baar bbar Bell tola jaite chaye.

deshifan
February 26, 2010, 01:23 PM
another mamu classic :floor:

AsifTheManRahman
February 26, 2010, 01:25 PM
I think we will appreciate Siddons and his work long after he is gone. When the core of this team come in to their prime, we will all look back and see what he has done with them. To a man, they all attribute to their individual improvement to him. Those are not my words, but our players. I will take our players word .Unless and until the individuals come of age, team won't come of age either. Its the players who make the team and he is the only coach we have ever had that is in process of making players. He is serving as coach/mentor/developer.
Yeah he certainly seems to be the right man for the job. Some of his decisions are questionable, but it's the overall result after a sizable period of time that matters.

Tigers_eye
February 26, 2010, 01:34 PM
Shakib wants to win one ODI.
http://www.bangladesherkhela.info/index.php?newsID=16368&pageTitle=details&editionID=947

He believes if everyone plays up to their potential they can win one game.

The pitch will be different than the Tri-nation series. The ball will not come to the bat that easily. :)

AsifTheManRahman
February 26, 2010, 01:39 PM
^ That's exactly what we need. Unleash the slow bowlers.

SS
February 26, 2010, 01:42 PM
Taklu beta ekhono Ashrful-ke niye shopno dekhe....

Ami Jantam Nera ekbaree bell tola jai.
Kintu ei nera to Baar bbar Bell tola jaite chaye.

Mamu aeita onno rokhom nera....nature Nera ra sheita biswas kore...kintu stylish Nera re to bare bare bell tola jai....

SS
February 26, 2010, 01:44 PM
Shakib wants to win one ODI.
http://www.bangladesherkhela.info/index.php?newsID=16368&pageTitle=details&editionID=947

He believes if everyone plays up to their potential they can win one game.

The pitch will be different than the Tri-nation series. The ball will not come to the bat that easily. :)

Shakib needs to perform before even thinking about something....

dolcevita
February 26, 2010, 01:52 PM
and that is mutually exclusive? :o

we have shown plenty of improvements for the last couple of months. We creating more winning chances than before. But we are still losing cause couple of holes are still there. Like the num 3 pos in batting? Does any body has a solid solution for than? I would like to hear, cause the whole BD team is searching for it.

We must give their chance batsmen from Domestic league
<br />Posted via BC Mobile Edition (iPhone)

bura
February 26, 2010, 01:55 PM
In case of Bangladesh team, seems so. Despite some individual achievements, the team don't seem to be working well as an unit. I think this was the main difference between our team and Black Caps in the last series.


As far as I see. we had only two individual performer b4. Ash and Mash. Ash had once a yr performance; Mash was a bit consistent though. And some occasional performer Rajjak.

Now we have more or less consistent -

1. Tameem
2. Shakib
3. Mahmudullah
4. Nayeem
5. Rubel
6. Shafiul

and some occasional performer Imrul. Ash still is once a yr performer. Mash is injured. And Rajjak had to go through action change and is not as effective as b4.

in my math 6 > 2. So, I would say that's a big big improvement. On top of that I see Tameem and Mahmudullah playing shots with a lot of easiness that they could not play b4. Back then very often Tameem would play dancing down wicket go crazy shot. He still plays that shot but a lot less. Cause now he has a lot of other shots in his book.

I guess all the above happening just by fluke and we have no reason to play cricket whatsoever.


We have quite a few options to be trialed at #3 (ie Zunaed, Mushfiq, Naeem). But at same time, understand that there got to be a time limit for a trial. If you go on with an failed experiment for too long, you will end up hurting both the team and the player that is in trial.

we talk about musical chairs when enough chance is not given then i guess we also see a reverse comment.

Zunaed has been given some chance. Failed to prove he is effective there.
Mushfiq has been played at no 3 b4. I don't remember him doing good at that pos.
Naeem a pinch hitter at no 3? Do we need another transition to Aftab?

And tell me the truth how many opinions/debates have you seen at BC about the best no 3 pos?

bura
February 26, 2010, 01:57 PM
I think we will appreciate Siddons and his work long after he is gone. When the core of this team come in to their prime, we will all look back and see what he has done with them. To a man, they all attribute to their individual improvement to him. Those are not my words, but our players. I will take our players word .Unless and until the individuals come of age, team won't come of age either. Its the players who make the team and he is the only coach we have ever had that is in process of making players. He is serving as coach/mentor/developer.

i totally agree!

cricket_dorshok
February 26, 2010, 02:01 PM
I guess its futile to argue with someone who believes Shakib rides only on his luck and Ash is the Bradman.

Beamer
February 26, 2010, 02:18 PM
Eshen

I always wanted to ask you, but never did, though its quite easy to see that you do not approve Siddons as a coach. What are his shortcomings, if any, that you see? Where do you think he is failing? I think you already know what I think of him. I think he is a terrific batting coach and developer of player ( mental side included ). My negatives towards him are shrinking with each day.

I am not sure if he is a great tactician. That part is not clear, simply because its hard to get a clear picture of in game strategies from outside. That said, we will be better off and for the future, if the captain on the field has a larger role in implementing and defining strategies, since he is the one who is on the field at all times. As to what level of communication, if any at all, comes from the coach during a game is murky. It is after all Sakib who will lead the team for years to come, and it is him who will have to learn through tough times. He may be hands off during games ( speculating since we don;t know ), which could be a good learning curb for a captain, since it is better to find your own feet than getting spoon fed into adulthood. Also, constant message sending and directions will undercut the captain and his authority over his mates. It is a delicate balance and I think he is taking the correct approach by being hands off ( if he is at all )during games to let establish a young captain, which is a good thing in the long run.

Other thing that I don't agree with him is his stubborness with batting slots for some individuals. Few examples : Persisting with Ashraful at no.3 in ODI's. I never agreed with it and it looks like Ash is lost for a while, though most of it is his fault. Theoritically, the best batsman should be confortable either at 3 or 4. It is too much for Ash to overcome because he is Ash, the poster boy of mental frality. Another example : Trying to make Zunaid a test no.3. Maybe, he will come good one day, but I don't see him as a classic no.3 in tests. A no.3 should know where his off stumos are at all times. I am not sure Zunaid does that. Riyad batting that low for that long was an issue, but it seems he was right about leaving him there. It molded his character, and indications are that Riyad will be moving up eventually.

What I like about him is his backing of his players. When your head coach has your back, even during tough times, a player can feel less pressure as opposed to publicly riling an out of form player. He may give him a toungue lashing for a rash shot , but he is quick to erase that from his memory, and will support him to come good another day. This is what separates him from other coaches. Its easy to lash out. Any one can criticize, but not everyone can criticize and be constructive. His core : Tamim, Imrul/Zunaid, Ash ( still supporting him ), Riyad, Rahim, Rakib ( another one who has his confidence ), Sakib - are our core, and he has more or less identified it and working to make them individually better so they can perform as an unit, more often.

Raynman
February 26, 2010, 02:25 PM
I will give Siddons his due as a batting coach.

But as a Head coach, I don't think he has much to brag about in terms of TEAM accomplishments.

We are already 0-11 for 2010 after high expectations. These matches were important for us to show that the WI wins and ZIM wins were more than just taking advantage of teams not at full strentgh.

Had you asked me on Jan 1, 2010, what would make me rank Siddon's term as acceptable, I would have said:

1. A win in the Tri series
2. At least one win in NZ ODI and
3 At least one draw (not weather related) in the 3 tests between IND and NZ

There were positive moments but all upper hand moments seemed to be ruined by a lack of strategy. The players seemed at a loss how to bowl to specific batsmen, how to bowl to specific bowlers. It wasn't like Oram had a once in a lifetime innings...we bowled to his strengths. Our top order collapsed in pretty much all 14 instances barring one partnership here or there yet the same failed formula was continued on. The team had no clue about how to use the batting powerplays. They didn't understand the value of review (see Shakib wasting two appeals early in the bowling and then of course the McCatch incident).

All this the aboee is where the head coach is responsible.

Like Eshen pointed out, everything seems to be at an individual level. Where is the head coaching that works with the team as a team? The players don't know their roles.

We see this in NBA all the time. A very qualified coach (see Larry Brown's career) at times does not get the best out of a group that doesn't fit his style. Maybe Siddons can be a good/great coach. I just don't think this is the right team/time for Bangladesh team to have Siddons as the coach.

I really believe that someone more familiar with the sub continent (Wright) or someone from the subcontinent (Akram) could have a much more positive TEAM impact on our national squad.

AsifTheManRahman
February 26, 2010, 02:28 PM
Eshen

I always wanted to ask you, but never did, though its quite easy to see that you do not approve Siddons as a coach. What are his shortcomings, if any, that you see? Where do you think he is failing? I think you already know what I think of him. I think he is a terrific batting coach and developer of player ( mental side included ). My negatives towards him are shrinking with each day.

I am not sure if he is a great tactician. That part is not clear, simply because its hard to get a clear picture of in game strategies from outside. That said, we will be better off and for the future, if the captain on the field has a larger role in implementing and defining strategies, since he is the one who is on the field at all times. As to what level of communication, if any at all, comes from the coach during a game is murky. It is after all Sakib who will lead the team for years to come, and it is him who will have to learn through tough times. He may be hands off during games ( speculating since we don;t know ), which could be a good learning curb for a captain, since it is better to find your own feet than getting spoon fed into adulthood. Also, constant message sending and directions will undercut the captain and his authority over his mates. It is a delicate balance and I think he is taking the correct approach by being hands off ( if he is at all )during games to let establish a young captain, which is a good thing in the long run.

Other thing that I don't agree with him is his stubborness with batting slots for some individuals. Few examples : Persisting with Ashraful at no.3 in ODI's. I never agreed with it and it looks like Ash is lost for a while, though most of it is his fault. Theoritically, the best batsman should be confortable either at 3 or 4. It is too much for Ash to overcome because he is Ash, the poster boy of mental frality. Another example : Trying to make Zunaid a test no.3. Maybe, he will come good one day, but I don't see him as a classic no.3 in tests. A no.3 should know where his off stumos are at all times. I am not sure Zunaid does that. Riyad batting that low for that long was an issue, but it seems he was right about leaving him there. It molded his character, and indications are that Riyad will be moving up eventually.

What I like about him is his backing of his players. When your head coach has your back, even during tough times, a player can feel less pressure as opposed to publicly riling an out of form player. He may give him a toungue lashing for a rash shot , but he is quick to erase that from his memory, and will support him to come good another day. This is what separates him from other coaches. Its easy to lash out. Any one can criticize, but not everyone can criticize and be constructive. His core : Tamim, Imrul/Zunaid, Ash ( still supporting him ), Riyad, Rahim, Rakib ( another one who has his confidence ), Sakib - are our core, and he has more or less identified it and working to make them individually better so they can perform as an unit, more often.
All of that coincides with how I feel about him as a coach. Ekdom khaapey khaapey fit koreche Beamer bhai.

_Rafi_
February 26, 2010, 02:34 PM
You don't like his negative comments, don't like his positive comments, do you know what type of comments you like?
No comments:-)
<br />Posted via BC Mobile Edition

AsifTheManRahman
February 26, 2010, 02:45 PM
I will give Siddons his due as a batting coach.

But as a Head coach, I don't think he has much to brag about in terms of TEAM accomplishments.

We are already 0-11 for 2010 after high expectations. These matches were important for us to show that the WI wins and ZIM wins were more than just taking advantage of teams not at full strentgh.

Had you asked me on Jan 1, 2010, what would make me rank Siddon's term as acceptable, I would have said:

1. A win in the Tri series
2. At least one win in NZ ODI and
3 At least one draw (not weather related) in the 3 tests between IND and NZ

There were positive moments but all upper hand moments seemed to be ruined by a lack of strategy. The players seemed at a loss how to bowl to specific batsmen, how to bowl to specific bowlers. It wasn't like Oram had a once in a lifetime innings...we bowled to his strengths. Our top order collapsed in pretty much all 14 instances barring one partnership here or there yet the same failed formula was continued on. The team had no clue about how to use the batting powerplays. They didn't understand the value of review (see Shakib wasting two appeals early in the bowling and then of course the McCatch incident).

All this the aboee is where the head coach is responsible.

Like Eshen pointed out, everything seems to be at an individual level. Where is the head coaching that works with the team as a team? The players don't know their roles.

We see this in NBA all the time. A very qualified coach (see Larry Brown's career) at times does not get the best out of a group that doesn't fit his style. Maybe Siddons can be a good/great coach. I just don't think this is the right team/time for Bangladesh team to have Siddons as the coach.

I really believe that someone more familiar with the sub continent (Wright) or someone from the subcontinent (Akram) could have a much more positive TEAM impact on our national squad.
Those are very interesting points Raynman bhai and I do agree that so far this year he hasn't had much to brag about in terms of team achievements. Having said that, can we not attribute our failures as a team at least partly to the incompetence of individual players? So for example, if he can fix the guys at #'s 3 and 4, shouldn't we start getting better results as a team? Just a thought.

NKVD
February 26, 2010, 03:07 PM
I think we will appreciate Siddons and his work long after he is gone. When the core of this team come in to their prime, we will all look back and see what he has done with them. To a man, they all attribute to their individual improvement to him. Those are not my words, but our players. I will take our players word .Unless and until the individuals come of age, team won't come of age either. Its the players who make the team and he is the only coach we have ever had that is in process of making players. He is serving as coach/mentor/developer.

So very well said.

You are an intelligent man to understand our goals with full insight.

NKVD
February 26, 2010, 03:14 PM
I do not remember the BCB having too many choices when they were hiring our new coach, last time.

Some of you just fail to remember this. At the end, considering that time, we have surely ended up with a good deal here, w/ Siddons.

Also, some of you doubt his ability as a tactician.

I am not sure if anyone in the Government is ready to spike our national debt to go and hire a coach who we know from before is a great trainer, brilliant tactician, and ready to daal bhaat with our players everyday before taking a rickshaw ride back home from practice.

For a team like Bangladesh where building a competitive and knowledge based cricketing culture is more important (meaning, learn how to play cricket first), I will take a coach who is better at training our youth vs. one who can figure out a tactic that is never executed as players are our first ball.

Taking the self described high end of this argument by emphasizing on the asthetics of the mind of a brilliant tactician may soothe some of your egos, but I will like Bangladesh to instead firmly set a long term foundation here. A good set of trainers in the long term is also a national investment as knowledge handed down to our players, and them learning how to applt that per own strength, will only increase our coach count for future teams.

NKVD
February 26, 2010, 03:17 PM
Those fans who are dissapointed with results from this year - one suggestion - come back and follow BD cricket in 2015.

:)

hbk619
February 26, 2010, 03:33 PM
If Siddons is not thinking about wining, why players like Shakib/Tamim are thinking about wining? "Amra NZ/England ke haranor asha kori" Everytime those players talk about wining matches, and at the end, the result came out as a whitewash. In oneday, we have chance to win matches. It's a limited over cricket, so anything can happen. However, in test we should look for draw matches, rather than thinkin about wining.

NKVD
February 26, 2010, 03:36 PM
Taklu beta ekhono Ashrful-ke niye shopno dekhe....

Ami Jantam Nera ekbaree bell tola jai.
Kintu ei nera to Baar bbar Bell tola jaite chaye.

If BC can give us some many chances to write crap, what's the problem with a coach who is unwilling to give up ?

hbk619
February 26, 2010, 03:37 PM
Those fans who are dissapointed with results from this year - one suggestion - come back and follow BD cricket in 2015.

:)

Raynman bhai says it all!

Raynman
February 26, 2010, 03:51 PM
Those fans who are dissapointed with results from this year - one suggestion - come back and follow BD cricket in 2015.

:)

If our (speculated) success in 2015 will belong to Siddons, can we then at least attribut all the positives we are seeing today to Whatmore instead of Siddons?

Raynman
February 26, 2010, 03:54 PM
Those are very interesting points Raynman bhai and I do agree that so far this year he hasn't had much to brag about in terms of team achievements. Having said that, can we not attribute our failures as a team at least partly to the incompetence of individual players? So for example, if he can fix the guys at #'s 3 and 4, shouldn't we start getting better results as a team? Just a thought.

Siddons has still the WC 2011 to finish out his term and I still support him as our country's coach. Like I said, I'm not disputing the positives. I'm eager to see what he does with the new 3/4 (assuming its Aftab/Riyad). But don't forget that he still wants Ash as the 3 guy.

But you have to admit there are genuine concerns such as the approach to T20 and pre-planning for opponents that do need to be addressed.

NKVD
February 26, 2010, 04:02 PM
Raynman bhai indeed says it all - he says that we have players who do not know what their role is? There role is to simply go out and execute what they were trained to do well. Experience and proper domestic cricketing culture that embraces modernism of the game will make them improve on decision making items.

What do you think players are, robots or players ? Do they need to be hand guided at every segment of play when the game has begun ? In cricket, the role of the Captain trumps that of those who lead their teams in Soccer or Davis cup Tennis e.t.c.

Many of your NFl examples are totally out of context. Cricket does not have a layout that requires a plathora of coaches amalgamating the outcome of the game at every twist and turns during the flow.

Lets begin the journey by admitting to our own deficiencies before we jump from coach to coach. I am sure our fallback coach, another Mohsin Kamal and co. are waiting to take our players in their wings and take you to the land of LaLa results.

NKVD
February 26, 2010, 04:05 PM
If our (speculated) success in 2015 will belong to Siddons, can we then at least attribut all the positives we are seeing today to Whatmore instead of Siddons?

Our success is already here. You just don't know how to measure it. Its good that you never went to a school where you were merely graded by PASS/FAIL...or else....good for your parents.

Coming back in 2015 will merely save you from enduring more pain and griviences that you have now.

Jesus87
February 26, 2010, 04:07 PM
I like Jamie Siddon, the man is never short of confidence. He was so confident and got us bd supporters pumped up ahead of the NZ series and later we faced reality, here we are again. Keep it up Jamie, doing an awesome job.

Beamer
February 26, 2010, 04:08 PM
If our (speculated) success in 2015 will belong to Siddons, can we then at least attribut all the positives we are seeing today to Whatmore instead of Siddons?

Except, none of Whatmore's core players are here at the present. He basically rode the generation of Bashar, JO, pilot and Rafiq. So, Whatmore enjoyed Mohsin Kamal's work by that logic? . When it came to developing young players, Whatmore was an utter failure of revolving door and most are gone from the picture. He had Ash and Aftab, the two premier talents at his disposal, and couldn't ( though not all his fault, a player must have own responsibility ) develop them. Nafis Iqbal, Rajin Saleh, Sahriar Nafees to name a few, are all Whatmore products. None are in the reckoning.

Tamim, Sakib, Mushy, Riyad, Naeem, Zunaid, Imrul - players being developed by Siddons, though some cracked through during Whatmore, but the real work is being done by Siddons.

NKVD
February 26, 2010, 04:08 PM
Siddons has still the WC 2011 to finish out his term and I still support him as our country's coach. Like I said, I'm not disputing the positives. I'm eager to see what he does with the new 3/4 (assuming its Aftab/Riyad). But don't forget that he still wants Ash as the 3 guy.

But you have to admit there are genuine concerns such as the approach to T20 and pre-planning for opponents that do need to be addressed.

Good to see that you are sobering up. Just enjoy each game that BD plays and don't take so much pain in pointing out things that you have no control over.

Let fans be fans.

I hope I did not speak too soon.

Eshen
February 26, 2010, 04:15 PM
Zunaed has been given some chance. Failed to prove he is effective there.
Mushfiq has been played at no 3 b4. I don't remember him doing good at that pos.
Naeem a pinch hitter at no 3? Do we need another transition to Aftab?

And tell me the truth how many opinions/debates have you seen at BC about the best no 3 pos?
I guess your and my definition of enough chances are very different. Mushfiq and Zunaed have been given only sporadic chances at #3 slot, far from enough trials to pass judgment on them either way. Naeem on the other hand is not even given a proper batting slot. He is a specialist batsman who batted from #5 for most part of his career, but now he is being treated as a bowling allrounder to guide the tail.

Aftab on the other hand is a proven failure from #3 slot (stat (http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/56266.html?batting_positionmax1=3;batting_position min1=3;batting_positionval1=batting_position;class =2;filter=advanced;opposition=1;opposition=2;oppos ition=3;opposition=4;opposition=5;opposition=6;opp osition=7;opposition=8;template=results;type=batti ng)), yet the management keep insisting on him!

Don't see anything wrong with BC debates, many good suggestions came from there. I I wish our management followed some of the innovative ideas from here instead of being stuck in same ruts for years.

bura
February 26, 2010, 04:16 PM
The problem with us the BD fans are we see others to run and think we can do the same without any knowledge on whether we can even stand on feet.

I don't see how tactics can work without the basic knowledge of what we can do.

How can you devise a good strategy for win without installing the basic cricketing sense and self believes on players?

Under Siddons we (both fans and players) have learned that -

1. One of your openers can bang 150 or a century.

2. Even after a batting collapse you can score around 250+ on consistent basis.

3. Your no 6-7 can score centuries.

4. You can score 400 runs in NZ conditions.

5. We have more than one player who is capable of taking 5 fors.

5. Our team is not dependent on Eid-ul-Ashrafool any more. At least there are couple of more players to stand.

6. We are capable of bowling good line and length like Shafiul and unlike Tapash Baisha. Yes Mr. Shahadat as long as you would argue with your coaches you should be a side-bencher because others would catch up.

7. Player roles. Yes I disagree who says Siddons does not teach that. With this idea of roles in mind he was so consistent with Ash and Rok. And given them plenty of time to adjust. They didn't adjust like others is their faults.

We were once happy with Haba's fluky 50s with 3 chances at least(when the opposition found out his weakness and learned to spread the field he stopped scoring any 50s :lol:). Now we are not happy with Shakib 100. The bar has just been raised. Guess what? Who helped to raise that bar of expectations? Siddons!


I am expecting many of us wants go back to Whatmore (no offense to him.. he did his job considering the need at that time) era with players like Shujon and Mushfiq, Tapash Baisha, Belim, Aftab.... and would like to find strategies for win with them. Good luck with that!

Beamer
February 26, 2010, 04:20 PM
bura

You should write more often. You are magnifico..

AsifTheManRahman
February 26, 2010, 04:23 PM
I want to be bura when I grow up.

Eshen
February 26, 2010, 04:24 PM
Except, none of Whatmore's core players are here at the present. He basically rode the generation of Bashar, JO, pilot and Rafiq. So, Whatmore enjoyed Mohsin Kamal's work by that logic? . When it came to developing young players, Whatmore was an utter failure of revolving door and most are gone from the picture. He had Ash and Aftab, the two premier talents at his disposal, and couldn't ( though not all his fault, a player must have own responsibility ) develop them. Nafis Iqbal, Rajin Saleh, Sahriar Nafees to name a few, are all Whatmore products. None are in the reckoning.

Tamim, Sakib, Mushy, Riyad, Naeem, Zunaid, Imrul - players being developed by Siddons, though some cracked through during Whatmore, but the real work is being done by Siddons.
I don't think any single coach should take credit for developing a particular player. For example, JO, Bashar, Sujon's etc roots go back all the way to Nirman school cricket - they were selected from that league and were groomed later through whatever development program we had.

Whatmore could only work with whatever talents our system offered him, and he still transformed the team from a laughing stock to a giant killer.

Siddons on the other hand is given a much better set of players than what Whatmore had, yet team's performances don't reflect any improvement in last two years.

Beamer
February 26, 2010, 04:25 PM
I don't want Mushfiq at no.3 as long as he wkt keeps. It is too much of a strain on the body if he has to come bat that early after keeping all day. He either gives up keeping and dedicates himself as a specialist batsman or he bats where he bats, as a wktkeeper batsman. I am not going to fault management on that.

Naeem will work up the simmilar route Riyad has taken. Start low, work up and maybe he will move up. That route has worked.

dolcevita
February 26, 2010, 04:26 PM
Shakib needs to perform before even thinking about something....
He will perform , i am moor worried about aftab and kayes and junaid if he plays
<br />Posted via BC Mobile Edition (iPhone)

bura
February 26, 2010, 04:26 PM
I guess your and my definition of enough chances are very different. Mushfiq and Zunaed have been given only sporadic chances at #3 slot, far from enough trials to pass judgment on them either way. Naeem on the other hand is not even given a proper batting slot. He is a specialist batsman who batted from #5 for most part of his career, but now he is being treated as a bowling allrounder to guide the tail.

Aftab on the other hand is a proven failure from #3 slot (stat (http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/56266.html?batting_positionmax1=3;batting_position min1=3;batting_positionval1=batting_position;class =2;filter=advanced;opposition=1;opposition=2;oppos ition=3;opposition=4;opposition=5;opposition=6;opp osition=7;opposition=8;template=results;type=batti ng)), yet the management keep insisting on him!

Don't see anything wrong with BC debates, many good suggestions came from there. I I wish our management followed some of the innovative ideas from here instead of being stuck in same ruts for years.

I was pointing that the issue is still debatable and we haven't found any good solution. Had he not given chances to rok and Ash that much half the people here would cry once again 'musical chairs'

I am just saying many good opinions can come out through debates. Choice of Mushi could be one of them. I personally agree he was not given a fair bit of chance of at no 3. And I favor him at no 3 over any body and certainly over Aftab. Now that we have tested Ash and Rok, we should also start testing others. These are the things needs to be sorted out right? That's why Rok and Ash were tested for so long. Not every expectations results in fruition!

NKVD
February 26, 2010, 04:27 PM
I wish BD will continue to be fortunate and keep on getting coaches like Whatmore and Siddons.

Let us learn how to play cricket one person at a time and not get confused with some pre-determined destiny that is only defined through our ego and seen only in our dreams.

Hardship, realizable on an individual level, is the true path to greatness.

We just miss these points as a nation as well. We should see how we are improving as individuals before clamoring over some unrealizable collective goal just at that moment.

Beamer
February 26, 2010, 04:29 PM
I don't think any single coach should take credit for developing a particular player. For example, JO, Bashar, Sujon's etc roots go back all the way to Nirman school cricket - they were selected from that league and were groomed later through whatever development program we had.

Whatmore could only work with whatever talents our system offered him, and he still transformed the team from a laughing stock to a giant killer.

Siddons on the other hand is given a much better set of players than what Whatmore had, yet team's performances don't reflect any improvement in last two years.

Whatmore could not develop any young players. The players that played under him, the names that I mentioned, including Mash, were already in their prime and playing well. Whatmore rode on their tails for good showings here and there. He never developed one single young player.

Siddons is working magic with the younger players.

NKVD
February 26, 2010, 04:30 PM
I don't want Mushfiq at no.3 as long as he wkt keeps. It is too much of a strain on the body if he has to come bat that early after keeping all day. He either gives up keeping and dedicates himself as a specialist batsman or he bats where he bats, as a wktkeeper batsman. I am not going to fault management on that.

Naeem will work up the simmilar route Riyad has taken. Start low, work up and maybe he will move up. That route has worked.

That is it. Patience and one step at a time.

bura
February 26, 2010, 04:32 PM
Whatmore could not develop any young players. The players that played under him, the names that I mentioned, including Mash, were already in their prime and playing well. Whatmore rode on their tails for good showings here and there. He never developed one single young player.

Siddons is working magic with the younger players.

Good observation! But don't deprive Whatmore the credit he deserves. Believing to win was important on that era. He helpd on that.

Beamer
February 26, 2010, 04:40 PM
bura

I am not depriving Whatmore of anything. At that particular time, considering our showing at the WC in SA, Whatmore was the perfect man to take over. We have had some huge moments when he was the coach. But, we needed the next generation to flourish under him, not the Bashar-Rafiq generation, and that is where he failed big time. What he couldn't do, Siddons has to do, with a new set of young players. In the process, in those four years, we lost the Nafis Iqbal- Rajin generation and Whatmore is directly responsible for that failure. Siddons is starting from a scratch so to speak. Bashar gen. came before Whatmore, but left during Siddons, with a void of players that Whatmore couldnt develop. Simple as that.

Tigers_eye
February 26, 2010, 04:40 PM
(Patience) From 0 to 10 scale if Amla has 9, Hussey have 8, our players have 3. Bd fans have -3. :)

Kick so and so out. Move so and so up (me included at times). All are better than the coaches we got. Stability, team chemsetry means nothing to us.

Eshen
February 26, 2010, 04:41 PM
Eshen

I always wanted to ask you, but never did, though its quite easy to see that you do not approve Siddons as a coach. What are his shortcomings, if any, that you see? Where do you think he is failing? I think you already know what I think of him. I think he is a terrific batting coach and developer of player ( mental side included ). My negatives towards him are shrinking with each day.

The short answer is - I don't think he fits in as the head coach.

Sure, he seems to be a well capable batting coach, but again the team does not seem to work well under him as a unit. Our fielding is in decline; spin department also seems to be in decline after Salahuddin left; still not sure if the pace department has stabilized or not. Even for batting, there don't seem to be any strategy, batsmen just go out there and bat whichever manner they like. His weird batting order has not helped the team's cause either.

bura
February 26, 2010, 04:43 PM
bura

I am not depriving Whatmore of anything. At that particular time, considering our showing at the WC in SA, Whatmore was the perfect man to take over. We have had some huge moments when he was the coach. But, we needed the next generation to flourish under him, not the Bashar-Rafiq generation, and that is where he failed big time. What he couldn't do, Siddons has to do, with a new set of young players. In the process, in those four years, we lost the Nafis Iqbal- Rajin generation and Whatmore is directly responsible for that failure. Siddons is starting from a scratch so to speak. Bashar gen. came before Whatmore, but left during Siddons, with a void of players that Whatmore couldnt develop. Simple as that.

agreed! not every coach is capable of everything! We had the best U19 team at that time. But faults should go to Board and selectors as well.

Beamer
February 26, 2010, 04:45 PM
The short answer is - I don't think he fits in as the head coach.

Sure, he seems to be a well capable batting coach, but again the team does not seem to work well under him as a unit. Our fielding is in decline; spin department also seems to be in decline after Salahuddin left; still not sure if the pace department has stabilized or not. Even for batting, there don't seem to be any strategy, batsmen just go out there and bat whichever manner they like. His weird batting order has not helped the team's cause either.

He is a more than capable batting coach. You are assuming that the team doesn't work well as a unit. Our fielding was always spotty. Good one day, bad the other. Spin is hurting simply because we lost Rafiq and Raj lost his mojo. Waiting on Shuvo. Pace dept is improving. Shafi and Rubel are huge finds. I don't like his batting orders that much. But, willing to see out since he knows better than me.

I think he is a great batting coach but on his way to becoming a very good head coach. This is his first assignment as well. Once again, I have a feeling, once he is gone, we will appreciate him down the road..

bura
February 26, 2010, 04:45 PM
(Patience) From 0 to 10 scale if Amla has 9, Hussey have 8, our players have 3. Bd fans have -3. :)

Kick so and so out. Move so and so up (me included at times). All are better than the coaches we got. Stability, team chemsetry means nothing to us.

lol!

Beamer
February 26, 2010, 04:47 PM
Anyway..great points all around today. Everybody enjoy the weekend. I am going home..

Raynman
February 26, 2010, 04:50 PM
To me the 'hardcore' Siddons fans are like the Bush era Republicans. They are in control, getting what they want yet they are soooooo angry at anyone who fails to agree with them.

I guess it boils down to who has what expection for the team.

bura
February 26, 2010, 04:53 PM
He is a more than capable batting coach. You are assuming that the team doesn't work well as a unit. Our fielding was always spotty. Good one day, bad the other. Spin is hurting simply because we lost Rafiq and Raj lost his mojo. Waiting on Shuvo. Pace dept is improving. Shafi and Rubel are huge finds. I don't like his batting orders that much. But, willing to see out since he knows better than me.

I think he is a great batting coach but on his way to becoming a very good head coach. This is his first assignment as well. Once again, I have a feeling, once he is gone, we will appreciate him down the road..

Agree about spin dep. Loss of Rafiq and Raj is the key.

Siddon's wanted Salauddin... board declined. What else head coach should do? He can not give 100% of the time to fielding.

And batting strategy is fine. Just need good num 3/4.

What I see is whole team respects the coach and captain. Just that we are not wining. Is that why some of us think team is not working as a unit?

Eshen
February 26, 2010, 04:53 PM
Whatmore could not develop any young players. The players that played under him, the names that I mentioned, including Mash, were already in their prime and playing well. Whatmore rode on their tails for good showings here and there. He never developed one single young player.

Siddons is working magic with the younger players.
I think you are not giving him proper credit for how Rana, Razzak, Rasel, Shahadat etc developed under him. He also turned Bashar into a somewhat more responsible batsman. You can bash JO for his techniques, but he did serve his role under Whatmore (better than how Imrul or Zunaed serving the team now).

Mashrafe's career might have been also over long before if he was not given proper support by Whatmore.

I agree with you that he could not help them much to rectify their techniques, but he sure had busted their mental strength. The team used to play for wins under him!

Raynman
February 26, 2010, 04:54 PM
Our success is already here. You just don't know how to measure it. Its good that you never went to a school where you were merely graded by PASS/FAIL...or else....good for your parents.

Coming back in 2015 will merely save you from enduring more pain and griviences that you have now.

I have no intention of taking this to a personal level with you. Just so you know, I completed college on a full merit scholarship so I've got nothing to explain to you.

Let me enjoy my sport(s) the way I want and when I want.

If you have anything constructive to debate, lets talk. Otherwise, please don't bother to engage in a conversation with me.

bura
February 26, 2010, 04:54 PM
To me the 'hardcore' Siddons fans are like the Bush era Republicans. They are in control, getting what they want yet they are soooooo angry at anyone who fails to agree with them.

I guess it boils down to who has what expection for the team.

I would say thats a republican's comment ;). Point out your logic and debate please.

Murad
February 26, 2010, 04:54 PM
Only 2 wins against G8 teams in last 2 and half year. This says all about Siddons. NOt counting the wins against WI-Z team.

And after the WC2007, I thought we will be winning more than 1 game per year. Oh man my dream never come true!!

Siddons is a good batting coach. I think no one can doubt it. But as a headcoach he is a BIG NO NO!

Beamer
February 26, 2010, 04:55 PM
To me the 'hardcore' Siddons fans are like the Bush era Republicans. They are in control, getting what they want yet they are soooooo angry at anyone who fails to agree with them.

I guess it boils down to who has what expection for the team.

Pathetic response to a good debate. What are you? Dennis Kucinich?

Murad
February 26, 2010, 04:56 PM
To me the 'hardcore' Siddons fans are like the Bush era Republicans. They are in control, getting what they want yet they are soooooo angry at anyone who fails to agree with them.

I guess it boils down to who has what expection for the team.

Spot on! :up:

bura
February 26, 2010, 04:58 PM
Spot on! :up:

whole day didn't see you debate. Now a pathetic response and you jump. That's more like republicans, isn't it? ;)

Beamer
February 26, 2010, 04:59 PM
I think you are not giving him proper credit for how Rana, Razzak, Rasel, Shahadat etc developed under him. He also turned Bashar into a somewhat more responsible batsman. You can bash JO for his techniques, but he did serve his role under Whatmore (better than how Imrul or Zunaed serving the team now).

Mashrafe's career might have been also over long before if he was not given proper support by Whatmore.

I agree with you that he could not help them much to rectify their techniques, but he sure had busted their mental strength. The team used to play for wins under him!

Lol..all four bowlers you cite! Rana-Rasel-Raj-Shahadat.. batsman please? Dude, Shahdat was faltu then, he is faltu now. Poor Rana. Raj was chucking bro.

He didn't turn Bashar in any way. Bashar played the same way in 1999 as in 2004. He got runs with his style and he got out the same way, every game, with same consistency. Lost me on JO..

Raynman
February 26, 2010, 05:00 PM
Pathetic response to a good debate. What are you? Dennis Kucinich?

First note the use of the word 'hardcore'. This is in reference to those who are blindly supporting Siddons and not acknowledging any shortcomings.

Those that are fully happy with Siddons are making the case that BD is exactly where it should be in cricket today. Hence they are in control and have what they want.

And if you read through this thread, you will see that the pro Siddons posts have a lot more aggression in them then do the anti Siddons posts.

wiseshah
February 26, 2010, 05:01 PM
i also think siddons is better than whatmore. he doesnt talk rubbish or unnecessary. i can count on his word. yes some times he is harsh but he is right. its a great combo of siddons- sakib

wiseshah
February 26, 2010, 05:01 PM
bura-- u have a great avatar. so cool

Raynman
February 26, 2010, 05:02 PM
I would say thats a republican's comment ;). Point out your logic and debate please.

See #103

Miraz
February 26, 2010, 05:02 PM
Whatmore could not develop any young players. The players that played under him, the names that I mentioned, including Mash, were already in their prime and playing well. Whatmore rode on their tails for good showings here and there. He never developed one single young player.

Siddons is working magic with the younger players.

There is no need to discredit Whatmore's achievement to highlight "apparent success" of Siddons.

Bangladesh cricket is still standing on Whatmore's success, he managed to turn the table with a set of mediocre players (Tapash Baisya, Mushfiq Babu, Javed Omar, Rajin Saleh et al) with the exception of Bashar, Rafique and Ashraful. Have we continued Siddons's vision of individual performance after our 2003 world cup debacle (and we were in the middle of 3 years continuous losing streak even against kenya, Zimbabwe), our Test status would have long gone!!

Whatmore's success (consistent against Zim/Ken and associates, sporadic against G8) kept the hope of Bangladesh cricket alive in the eye of cricket world, we are seen as an emerging force. Siddons took over with the "emerging force" tag which gave him enough time to work on individual players (in the mean time McInnes generation took the centre stage who are much better than the previous generation) and still he is searching for elusive wins. I agree, Siddons's approach is a better approach considering we already had some wins under our belt (which acted as the lifeline of Bangladesh cricket), but he needs to deliver results (in terms of wins) before his tenure ends in 2011. Otherwise, his contribution in Bangladesh cricket will always be a disputed one.


Whatmore was the best thing happened to Bangladesh cricket when there was almost no hope. He instilled the self belief in a team which was much less capable than what they did.

If we had sufficient money, I would have appointed Dav Whatmore as the head coach with Jamie Siddons as the batting coach.

Murad
February 26, 2010, 05:03 PM
whole day didn't see you debate. Now a pathetic response and you jump. That's more like republicans, isn't it? ;)

Lol. Whole day I was busy following the debates ;)

Btw this is not a pathetic response from Raynman. If you go over the threads about Siddons, you will see why he said that.

Beamer
February 26, 2010, 05:06 PM
Miraz

I don't want to relive the past with you on Whatmore. I never discredit him. I also like to point out where he failed.

Eshen
February 26, 2010, 05:09 PM
I am just saying many good opinions can come out through debates. Choice of Mushi could be one of them. I personally agree he was not given a fair bit of chance of at no 3. And I favor him at no 3 over any body and certainly over Aftab. Now that we have tested Ash and Rok, we should also start testing others. These are the things needs to be sorted out right? That's why Rok and Ash were tested for so long. Not every expectations results in fruition!
Yes, sometimes you just have to find the solution through trials and errors. But you will get nowhere by keep repeating the same failed experiment.

Again, look at Aftab's past failure as the #3. Has he changed a bit after returning from ICL? It seems to me that he has gone worse. Yet we are back to him.

Have to say though at this point it seems very confusing who is calling the shots.

Beamer
February 26, 2010, 05:10 PM
First note the use of the word 'hardcore'. This is in reference to those who are blindly supporting Siddons and not acknowledging any shortcomings.

Those that are fully happy with Siddons are making the case that BD is exactly where it should be in cricket today. Hence they are in control and have what they want.

And if you read through this thread, you will see that the pro Siddons posts have a lot more aggression in them then do the anti Siddons posts.

Give me a break. Siddons hatred is rampant here. People who likes his work are on the mellow side to the contrary.

bura
February 26, 2010, 05:14 PM
Yes, sometimes you just have to find the solution through trials and errors. But you will get nowhere by keep repeating the same failed experiment.

Again, look at Aftab's past failure as the #3. Has he changed a bit after returning from ICL? It seems to me that he has gone worse. Yet we are back to him.

Have to say though at this point it seems very confusing who is calling the shots.

Ash was the GOD of BD cricket then. You have to give him chances otherwise half the BD would go crazy.

please, look at my other posts in other threads and also on this thread. I am dead against Aftab. He is the worst thing in BD cricket now.

May be, last line of your post should be considered here. ;)

Raynman
February 26, 2010, 05:15 PM
Give me a break. Siddons hatred is rampant here. People who likes his work are on the mellow side to the contrary.

I beg to differ.

Miraz
February 26, 2010, 05:24 PM
Beamer, I am not living in the past. We should give credit where it's due. Whatmore defnitely had failures, but he had some very good success. We needed those successes badly in our difficult times.

There is no doubt that he could have done lot better. However, he picked players like Tamim, Mushfiq, Shakib against odds and they delivered in the world cup. Whatmore left soon after the WC 2007. We would never know what he could have done with the current bunch of players who are definitely better than the previous lot with the exception of probably Bashar and Rafique.

Siddons's vision of success is exceptional. If he succeeds in transforming these small personal gains in collective gains, we will be a force in world cricket in near future. He has publicly announced a 2 year time frame (in his latest interview) which is a very reasonable time. I will judge Siddons after another 2 years.

Eshen
February 26, 2010, 05:26 PM
Lol..all four bowlers you cite! Rana-Rasel-Raj-Shahadat.. batsman please? Dude, Shahdat was faltu then, he is faltu now. Poor Rana. Raj was chucking bro.
Well, what to say when you trash some of the best products of Bangladesh cricket like that?! Not sure what's going on with Razzak, but Shahadat is still the best Test pacer Bangladesh ever produced.

He didn't turn Bashar in any way. Bashar played the same way in 1999 as in 2004.He got runs with his style and he got out the same way, every game, with same consistency.Check his Test stats from 2003 to 2006 (excluding Zim matches), you will see the difference.

http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/55906.html?class=1;filter=advanced;opposition=1;op position=2;opposition=3;opposition=4;opposition=5; opposition=6;opposition=7;opposition=8;spanmax1=31 +Dec+2006;spanmin1=01+Jan+2003;spanval1=span;templ ate=results;type=batting. Lost me on JO..Let me try to explain it to you again - JO was the best opener Whatmore had (before Tamim came along shortly before WC'07). Despite his horrible techniques, JO still yielded better performances than what technically more capable openers like Imrul and Zunaed have yielded under Siddons so far.

Other top order batsmen Whatmore had to work with such as N Iqbal, Rajin, Hannan etc are nobody even in our domestic leagues now. Those guys simply did not have what it takes to survive in international arena.

I think Whatmore's biggest mistake was promoting SN to open, instead of sticking to his initial decision to keep him as the #4 in the Test team. But I guess that was partly because of desperation, and partly because of reputation SN gained as an opener against Australia in two Tests and then against minnows later.

BD-Shardul
February 26, 2010, 05:28 PM
"Kaijja" is the life of BC. So do it brothers ;)

bura
February 26, 2010, 05:30 PM
Beamer, I am not living in the past. We should give credit where it's due. Whatmore defnitely had failures, but he had some very good success. We needed those successes badly in our difficult times.

There is no doubt that he could have done lot better. However, he picked players like Tamim, Mushfiq, Shakib against odds and they delivered in the world cup. Whatmore left soon after the WC 2007. We would never know what he could have done with the current bunch of players who are definitely better than the previous lot with the exception of probably Bashar and Rafique.

Siddons's vision of success is exceptional. If he succeeds in transforming these small personal gains in collective gains, we will be a force in world cricket in near future. He has publicly announced a 2 year time frame (in his latest interview) which is a very reasonable time. I will judge Siddons after another 2 years.

good logical post! :up: Liked the bold parts. :)

bura
February 26, 2010, 05:32 PM
Well, what to say when you trash some of the best products of Bangladesh cricket like that?! Not sure what's going on with Razzak, but Shahadat is still the best Test pacer Bangladesh ever produced.

Check his Test stats from 2003 to 2006 (excluding Zim matches), you will see the difference.

http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/55906.html?class=1;filter=advanced;opposition=1;op position=2;opposition=3;opposition=4;opposition=5; opposition=6;opposition=7;opposition=8;spanmax1=31 +Dec+2006;spanmin1=01+Jan+2003;spanval1=span;templ ate=results;type=batting.Let me try to explain it to you again - JO was the best opener Whatmore had (before Tamim came along shortly before WC'07). Despite his horrible techniques, JO still yielded better performances than what technically more capable openers like Imrul and Zunaed have yielded under Siddons so far.

Other top order batsmen Whatmore had to work with such as N Iqbal, Rajin, Hannan etc are nobody even in our domestic leagues now. Those guys simply did not have what it takes to survive in international arena.

I think Whatmore's biggest mistake was promoting SN to open, instead of sticking to his initial decision to keep him as the #4 in the Test team. But I guess that was partly because of desperation, and partly because of reputation SN gained as an opener against Australia in two Tests and then against minnows later.

That's my friend is hard to judge! (not commenting on other aspects of your post just the bold part)

Eshen
February 26, 2010, 05:46 PM
Ash was the GOD of BD cricket then. You have to give him chances otherwise half the BD would go crazy.
Ashraful earned that status, the guy alone won us more ODIs than others combined have (not considering wins against minnows). If anyone in the team deserved the right to play his natural aggressive stroke play from his preferred position, it should have been Ash.

But Siddons had not allowed that, he forced Ashraful to bat from #3, with a defensive approach. Ashraful had pulled out couple of decent innings from the position, but I don't think it was hard to see it was not going to work out for him in the long run. Yet Siddons continued with the experiment till selectors had no option but to leave him out.

please, look at my other posts in other threads and also on this thread. I am dead against Aftab. He is the worst thing in BD cricket now.
Way too many posts here to keep track who stands where on whom. My criticism for continuing with Aftab was directed towards the management, not at you (yes, I know you are just another powerless cricket fan like I ;))

beshideshi
February 26, 2010, 05:51 PM
Siddons speaks like a true Aussie. An Aussie will never ever accept that England is a strong team. I like the confidence, but I'd prefer if Siddons said these words after we won the games.

Eshen
February 26, 2010, 06:09 PM
To add to my previous post, Siddons is actually jerking with almost every batsman in the team. Mahmudullah batted almost all the time at #5 or #6, he was stuck at #7 or #8 all this time in the national team, and suddenly he is now promoted to #4 - a position he has almost no experience with! On the other hand, Naeem and Mushfiq - two batsmen that have better previous experience batting at 1-4 positions are being ignored for the slot!

LateCut
February 26, 2010, 06:16 PM
I think most of us missed some subtle points Siddon made.
1) Our batting is not firing in unison.
2) Like it or not Ash has to figure in our future
3)Our fielding stinked and it cost us 1 or 2 ODI victories.

For those who likes negatives, you will find some if you dig hard.

Eshen
February 26, 2010, 06:31 PM
LateCut, just want to comment on your point one - Our batting is not firing in unison.

Well, it's rare to see any batting order in the world firing in unison. But what other teams do is to put their key batsmen in best possible positions so that when one or two of them fire, he or they give the team a good chance to win. This is how we won matches in past, though sporadically as only sporadically our key batsmen fired. Now we have couple more batsmen firing more frequently, but they are not put in a proper place to make a difference for the team.

tkandi4
February 26, 2010, 06:38 PM
I think Siddons did the right thing. By making some confident statments, he is trying to divert heat from players to himself. This is pretty common in NCAA and professional sports in the U.S. where coachs intentionally make bold statements to take the focus away from players. If his team lose, which is very likely, we will blame him. Wouldn't you support/love a coach who tries to protect his players?

nahaz
February 26, 2010, 07:15 PM
Wow, Siddons really is powerful with words. I hope Strauss and Cook are feeling just a bit more uneasy after those comments. Like some mentioned, its better Siddons does this trash talk as opposed to Sakib. He has gone a bit overboard, but that's trashtalk. I prefer this to saying " that South African batsman looks amazing, and I only pray and hope we'll get him out before 100".

Siddons definitely has improved our batsmen as individuals. Eshen, surely you've noticed the development of Tamim, Sakib and Riyad under him. Ashraful has been going on for too long in the same style and it'd have been hard to change his approach till he stepped out of the team.

One thing I don't like about him is that he's too stubborn...himm keeping Riyad at No.8 is just stubbornness. He should bat at No.5. I realise Mushfiq's case is complicated due t the fact that he keeps wicket as well. He should ideally be considered as a batsman only, but lack of performing batsmen in most slots means we can't afford a specialist keeper. His keeping is bad, and I wonder if its because he's not a natural keeper. ( He should talk less when keeping.) I do understand the team chemistry../.it however doesn't hurt to have performing players in the team, and it wouldn't hurt to move one of our best two batsmen to No.5.

Whatmore was needed in that era, since we needed a great motivator. Those few wins were really important for us to not lose test status..he did exactly what he was supposed to do as head coach...work and motivate the players he had, and get the best out of them. Siddons is working more like a batting coach and concentrating on individual performances. This is giving us a really good buildup for the future. We definitely look like we get to the scores we have due to a particular plan, rather than fluke it..Siddons is a bIt of a hit-and-miss with bowlers. But I'm glad he values Shafi and even rubel..

Beamer
February 26, 2010, 07:43 PM
Well, what to say when you trash some of the best products of Bangladesh cricket like that?! Not sure what's going on with Razzak, but Shahadat is still the best Test pacer Bangladesh ever produced.

Check his Test stats from 2003 to 2006 (excluding Zim matches), you will see the difference.

http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/55906.html?class=1;filter=advanced;opposition=1;op position=2;opposition=3;opposition=4;opposition=5; opposition=6;opposition=7;opposition=8;spanmax1=31 +Dec+2006;spanmin1=01+Jan+2003;spanval1=span;templ ate=results;type=batting.Let me try to explain it to you again - JO was the best opener Whatmore had (before Tamim came along shortly before WC'07). Despite his horrible techniques, JO still yielded better performances than what technically more capable openers like Imrul and Zunaed have yielded under Siddons so far.

Other top order batsmen Whatmore had to work with such as N Iqbal, Rajin, Hannan etc are nobody even in our domestic leagues now. Those guys simply did not have what it takes to survive in international arena.

I think Whatmore's biggest mistake was promoting SN to open, instead of sticking to his initial decision to keep him as the #4 in the Test team. But I guess that was partly because of desperation, and partly because of reputation SN gained as an opener against Australia in two Tests and then against minnows later.

Laughable assertion that JO was the best opener available. You admit his technical shortcomings, but Whatmore could not correct it, or not willing to work extra hard to correct it. That was his thing. He never developed or improved anybody. Siddons is actually working to correct and improve Imrul and Zunaid. Whether they pan out or not is pre-mature for you to attest, but Zunaid already has five test half-centuries and Imrul just hit a one day ton! The book is open on them. What they yield, will be decided in future.

And..about the trashing part of the best products!You should carefully listen to yourself before engaging with me. You trash the best product of Bangladesh that is Sakib at every opportunity. In fact, I wasn't trashing them, but you gleefully trash Sakib.

dark mage
February 26, 2010, 07:45 PM
I think we will appreciate Siddons and his work long after he is gone. When the core of this team come in to their prime, we will all look back and see what he has done with them. To a man, they all attribute to their individual improvement to him. Those are not my words, but our players. I will take our players word .Unless and until the individuals come of age, team won't come of age either. Its the players who make the team and he is the only coach we have ever had that is in process of making players. He is serving as coach/mentor/developer.

Well summed up and I agree with you 100%, its a fact that we have improved under him. And what Siddons said, is supposed to be said before the series and not after, so far we have always had cannons firing at us but never from our end, its the rule of the battle to confuse your opponents, even if you dont have enough soldiers to man the fort, put helmets on the battlements, and fire your cannons, it will keep your enemies guessing

BD-Shardul
February 26, 2010, 07:50 PM
How come no one crediting Chacha for our recent performance improvements?

dark mage
February 26, 2010, 07:56 PM
except, none of whatmore's core players are here at the present. He basically rode the generation of bashar, jo, pilot and rafiq. So, whatmore enjoyed mohsin kamal's work by that logic? . When it came to developing young players, whatmore was an utter failure of revolving door and most are gone from the picture. He had ash and aftab, the two premier talents at his disposal, and couldn't ( though not all his fault, a player must have own responsibility ) develop them. Nafis iqbal, rajin saleh, sahriar nafees to name a few, are all whatmore products. None are in the reckoning.

Tamim, sakib, mushy, riyad, naeem, zunaid, imrul - players being developed by siddons, though some cracked through during whatmore, but the real work is being done by siddons.

qft:)

Abid_Khan
February 26, 2010, 08:20 PM
How come no one crediting Chacha for our recent performance improvements?

What did he do exactly? :confused:

Beamer
February 26, 2010, 08:31 PM
To add to my previous post, Siddons is actually jerking with almost every batsman in the team. Mahmudullah batted almost all the time at #5 or #6, he was stuck at #7 or #8 all this time in the national team, and suddenly he is now promoted to #4 - a position he has almost no experience with! On the other hand, Naeem and Mushfiq - two batsmen that have better previous experience batting at 1-4 positions are being ignored for the slot!

You are complaining about Siddons ruining Ash because he moved him from no.4 to no.3 ( something I was against ), yet if your selective memory allows, you will see Whatmore playing him at 4,5, opening him for a stretch, and even at no.8 in WC ( Yuvraj and co. were laughing at him when he came to bat ). I guess that won't be jerking, but dangling him with a rope upside down from a bridge.

NKVD
February 26, 2010, 08:32 PM
I think the detractors of Siddons, those who have chosen not to rectify their view points, not to moderate there cricism by constantly picking on him, and for whatever the reason, are truly outnumbered in this forum.

I really see no value in engaging the likes of Ehsen. We are all better off reserving our hope, joy, and cricketing knowledge on the game played and actions that stand out during this series.

In my humble opinion, on this topic he just wants to pick tit-for-tat fights.

Sorry Ehsen, for being so blunt. You can surely reciprocate, and I am confident you will, and with considerable zest.

Or you can continue doing the great other things that many here recognize you for.

Dhakablues
February 26, 2010, 10:48 PM
Had there been no Watmore,there wouldnt have been no Siddons.Period. Give credit where it is due.

ahms
February 27, 2010, 06:59 PM
its funny that people find positivism from Aftab's 15-20 some runs of 10 ball with 3 lives but not from couple of centuries and 5 fors in NZ's home condition. When was the last time someone from BD scored a century or took 5 fors or the team scored 400 runs in NZ? Had it in Whatmore's era we would have lost the test by an innings and 300 some runs. Even against mighty India we took 18 wickets!

I guess the coach should talk like Shewag. We don't have the capability to take 10 English wickets in ODIs...

We Bangladeshi have inferiority complex. We always been dead before we start. Being positive mean, we are capable of scoring century and taking five-for, hence taking on any team. What Sehwag did, was bullying us. That's not what Siddon or Sakib did.