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Farhad
March 3, 2010, 06:32 PM
As some of you might have noticed, yesterdays game was the first in which Hawkeye was available on Cricinfo in a BD match.

This isnt really much of an analysis thread as I'm a little busy at the moment, but what I did want to do is get a conversation going on why our pacers seem to lack venom at times...

I've been saying for quite some time that accuracy isnt the main issue our pacers need to work on. Even though this was seemingly the least accurate I've seen our new pace duo look, the Hawkeye output isnt that bad. As a matter of fact, its still pretty damn good. Looking at the Beehive placement, both of our pacers have a nice cluster right outside the offstump, which isnt something you often see in even some of the best fast or fast-medium bowlers around (Dale Steyn included). They hardly ever strayed on the leg side, which is also nice to see (and pretty rare). There were, however, a number of balls (from Shafiul especially) in which too much width was given (the reason they didnt look as accurate), but this is quite common in pace bowling (look at Steyn's chart below), and none were wide enough to be called wide.

The question then becomes - how come we dont get better results from them? I know the conditions in the last ODI werent conducive to pace bowling, but Bresnan fared pretty well. Bresnan also strayed over to the leg side four or five times that of Shafiul and Rubel combined!

So what do you guys think is the problem?

Personally, I sometimes feel our pacers get too caught up in maintaining that "Mcgrath-like" perfect line and length right outside the offstump. I'm guessing these are the instructions from Champaka Ramanayake. The only problem with this line of thinking is that it becomes pretty predictable. If you already know where the next ball is going to be, its so much easier to play it. The main advantage of quick bowling is to throw off and surprise batsman by shorter deliveries, yorkers, pretty much anything you feel the batsman isnt expecting. Like I said once before, variation is the name of the game. You have to try to outwit the batsman, not do your best bowling machine impersonation. Champaka, being a medium pacer, might be trying to give our quicker bowlers the same goals he might have had when he himself was a bowler. If this is indeed the case, he's got to realize that the goals need to be different for quicker bowlers - unless, of course, you're Glenn fricken Mcgrath!


Ban VS Eng 2nd ODI Hawkeye (http://www.cricinfo.com/bdeshveng2010/engine/match/426421.html?view=hawkeye)
India VS SA 3rd ODI Hawkeye (http://www.cricinfo.com/indvrsa2010/engine/match/441829.html) (Steyn's best recent ODI performance)

Farhad
March 3, 2010, 06:39 PM
Also, what did you guys think of Rubels bowling yesterday? It seemed very different from what we saw of him in NZ. He seemed to make a conscious effort to land the ball on the seam and not be the "Kookaburra Killer" the NZ commentators made him out to be. Perhaps because of that, his action also seemed a fair bit different, which could also explain why his pace dropped so much (by 10kph, if not more). We know for a fact that it wasnt the pitch, as Shafiuls pace actually seemed to increase (keep in mind that these are the speeds before the ball actually bounces, the pitch should make no difference whatsoever)...

al Furqaan
March 3, 2010, 06:51 PM
top class thread.

shafi did bowl a lot quicker than i've seen before. rubel was at his normal pace (was quite quick in NZ). even still rubel still clocked 87-88 mph as a max, and thats not bad.

shafi was the fastest from either side.

can't comment a whole lot, i've only watched the first 4-5 overs so far. but bresnan got some cheap wickets. aftab's wild heave certainly takes the cake.

more to follow...

beshideshi
March 3, 2010, 07:09 PM
Yea bro, I saw this hawk eye analysis, but restrained myself from opening a thread. I was quite amused to see that Shafi/Rubel were both quicker than Broad/Bresnan. Which in my opinion is a great achievement.

and about Rubel, he did sacrifise some pace to have a better hold on the ball. Though I don't think I would like to see something like this in tests, in tests he should be allowed to bowl as quick as he can and knock some batters out.

al-Sagar
March 3, 2010, 10:21 PM
both shafiul and rubel and new, have lots of potential, but i prefer them bowling with somebody experienced. like mashrafe, shahadat or nazmul.

when a pace bowler sees some other pacer doing well in a pitch it gives him confidence that he can bowl well too. but if they see there fellow pacer going for runs than it could be harmful to his confidence.

if we play three pacers i would like to see nazmul or mashrafe in odi along with the two. in tests still shahadat is the choice.

if we play two pacers then certainly i would drop one of the two. i will rotate one of shafiul and rubel and play him with mashrafe or nazmul in odi's and shahadat in tests.

also the likes of dollar, robin, talha, rabiul, rasel, kamrul needs more attention

NKVD
March 3, 2010, 10:25 PM
A very education threAD. Please continue to add.

As our very deshi bhai said...lets hope Rubel isn't this shy in the tests. Gawd, I just love that pace.

Absolute brutality as a Bangladeshi.

Zeeshan
March 3, 2010, 10:28 PM
An excellent thread Farhad bhai. I can truly see this grow. A simple, naive answer to your question would be maybe English batsman are better players of the balls even if the ball lands on line and length? I agree variation is the key. Will chime in later as thread + analysis progresses...

Tintin
March 3, 2010, 11:11 PM
>>Personally, I sometimes feel our pacers get too caught up in maintaining that "Mcgrath-like" perfect line and length right outside the offstump.

But look how at the beehive of the the seam bowlers against the left handers. There is quite an even spread of everything from very short to full tosses. Seven balls pitched on the near side of the half way mark and five of them went for boundaries (probably including the Morgan sixes). There were three full tosses, two went for boundaries. The attempt to surprise with bouncers seems to have failed pretty badly.

One World
March 3, 2010, 11:49 PM
ODI and Test will be two different stories.
If you are accurate you can get by with a lower pace in ODI.
Example: Luke Wright
Also need consideration of which part of the innings we are talking about.

Great thread and yes this hawkeye thing is really something useful for players to analyse personal limitations or any specific bowler.

Farhad
March 4, 2010, 12:10 AM
>>Personally, I sometimes feel our pacers get too caught up in maintaining that "Mcgrath-like" perfect line and length right outside the offstump.

But look how at the beehive of the the seam bowlers against the left handers. There is quite an even spread of everything from very short to full tosses. Seven balls pitched on the near side of the half way mark and five of them went for boundaries (probably including the Morgan sixes). There were three full tosses, two went for boundaries. The attempt to surprise with bouncers seems to have failed pretty badly.

Thats a good point. Although, all the full tosses were attempted yorkers from Shafiul in the final overs when Morgan was going berserk. Suffice to say, those were anything but surprises. Everybody expects yorkers in the death overs, even more so when you bowl 5 in a row :). Of the shorter balls, there really werent that many at all when compared to other bowlers. For comparison, check out the English bowlers in the very same match. But its good that you mention them actually. Of the genuinely short deliveries (chest height and above, of which there were 7 - five from Shafiul and two from Rubel), a much greater percentage than normal worried the batsmen. Two (5.4 and 32.2) strayed down the leg side and were subsequently dispatched, four were dot balls (including the only bouncer from our side, worked pretty well, stunning pietersen - 4.5 - and another that beat the edge - 0.5). The remaining ball (6.2) was the only one hit for four that didnt stray down the leg side, and thats the one that was hit to Mahmudullah on the boundary line and should have been a wicket. Those are exactly the kind of chances that come from a batsman caught off guard. Not bad results at all.

RazabQ
March 4, 2010, 02:32 AM
Great thread Farhad. I think none of our paces get late movement and vary pace effectively. Plus at the death if you are bowling to a guy who has is eye in, anyone can get tonked.

dark mage
March 4, 2010, 07:11 AM
Also, what did you guys think of Rubels bowling yesterday? It seemed very different from what we saw of him in NZ. He seemed to make a conscious effort to land the ball on the seam and not be the "Kookaburra Killer" the NZ commentators made him out to be. Perhaps because of that, his action also seemed a fair bit different, which could also explain why his pace dropped so much (by 10kph, if not more). We know for a fact that it wasnt the pitch, as Shafiuls pace actually seemed to increase (keep in mind that these are the speeds before the ball actually bounces, the pitch should make no difference whatsoever)...

Yeah I noticed that too, and I liked it, because it shows Rubel's willingness to listen to advice from the bowling coach, learn and improve himself (unlike some of our older generation). Dont worry about his pace because he is naturally quick, and the proof is, even though it dropped abit in this match it was still in the 86-88 mph range, which is still pretty high, and once he has mastered this art of landing the ball on the seam frequently, he will be able to increase his speed again but this time the difference will be Rubel bowling at 140-145kph and landing the ball on the seam, which should make Rubel a very formidable bowler as when a ball lands on its seam, it can move deviate off the pitch and use the movement provided by the moisture on the pitch properly.

Nafi
March 4, 2010, 08:25 AM
Obviously the pitches were different, the pitches for the first two ODIs had nothing for the pacers.

Ananna
March 4, 2010, 10:29 AM
The answer is simple. If someone bowls 4 good and 2 very bad balls in an over, it will be called a bad over, especially in an ODI since he might conceed 8 runs out of those 2 bad balls. IMO, in ODI, a bowler should be more concerned about this line and lenght rather than speed. In test its a different story. Luke right was so successful in last ODI only because of his accuracy. I think our bowlers look for speed. Especially Rubel conceeds too many boundaries.

Farhad
March 4, 2010, 10:54 AM
Obviously the pitches were different, the pitches for the first two ODIs had nothing for the pacers.

Even so, coming into this series, both of them had averages well beyond thirty. I dont expect much from them in these games, but we know for a fact that, if they continue to bowl the way they are now, even in good conditions, they'll always be "decent" bowlers and nothing more.

I'm hoping it'll come with experience. And it will, no doubt about it. But how high is the ceiling and how long will it take for them to get there?

Beamer
March 4, 2010, 11:54 AM
Good thread Farhad !

My observations:

1. As Zeeshan said, English batsmen ( or batsmen from any other big nations ) are used to playing deliveries that are line and length. So, its not something that they haven't seen before. Particularly in tests, they will leave and leave deliveries to test your patience.

2. Our pacers generally struggle against left handed batsmen. The angle of the deliveries coming from a RMF/RF are lot easier for a lefty to play shots on the off. You can trouble them if you pitch it correctly but with the ability to bring the ball back to them. So, a natural outswinger/leg cutter for a Right armer is crucial, and I have yet to see our pacers doing that, even with the new ball.

3. Lack of varitaion obviously. But, you have to maintain proper line and length first, over and over, to bring variation into play. We are doing the hard thing right. It will come.

4. Intl batsmen from England, Australia, NZ etc will and often stand outside the crease to smother any movement. That will throw off your length and we are simply not used to such bold tactic in domestic scene. You can counter it with effective short deliveries, but you need pace for that, and in Shafi and Rubel we have two who are atleast no chopped liver in that case. Also, a lot of English ( intl batsmen ) are good backfoot players, which is not the case with our batsmen ( domestic or intl ).



1.

Dhakablues
March 4, 2010, 04:03 PM
There is only one bowler who can vary pace, vary length, vary line and still be economical. Unfortunately, he is not playing for the last ODI. But I am pretty sure when he starts to mentor these young bowlers,,, we will be a very good bowling attack. Rubel/Shafiul are good prospects but we can't overuse them to suck their ability out... Both these players impressed me with their ability to adapt and listen to the coach's advice.

As much as they are needed right now, we also should not cut Rasel/Nazmul/Robin/Dolar as they maybe called up if there is another injury between the newbies.