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Miraz
June 22, 2010, 04:50 AM
Three-and-a-half hours of torture

Bangladesh's decision not to go for the win against Pakistan exposed the biggest flaw in the one-day format and goes against the spirit of the competitive sport
Sidharth Monga
June 22, 2010
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<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr> <td class="stryPicCptn" id="stryPicCptn"> Bangladesh coach Jamie Siddons defended his team's decision not to go for the win against Pakistan <nobr>© PA Photos</nobr>
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</td> </tr> </tbody></table> In affectionate remembrance of ODI cricket, which was killed by Bangladesh at Rangiri Dambulla International Stadium, 21st June, 2010. Deeply lamented by a large circle of sorrowing friends and acquaintances, RIP. NB The body will be cremated and the Ashes brought back to Rangiri Dambulla International Stadium for another tri-series involving India and Sri Lanka, in August 2010.
Bangladesh not only made the longest day of the year feel excruciatingly longer than it was, they also exposed the biggest weakness of 50-over cricket vis-à-vis other formats. If a side refuses to go for a win in Tests, it is automatically fighting for a draw, and thus there is still a contest. If it doesn't want to win a Twenty20, the misery ends in 80 minutes.
Fifty-over cricket, though, has no defence against a side that throws away all shame and pride and doesn't even pretend to be trying to win. What we get then is three-and-a-half hours of meander, during which selfish batsmen bolster their averages. That's what Bangladesh did when chasing 386 against Pakistan, two and six days respectively after India and Pakistan, and Sri Lanka and Pakistan played beauties to suggest there was life in the old dog yet.
Imrul Kayes and Junaid Siddique, so impressive in being the only men to support Tamim Iqbal in England, were the villains on Monday. Kayes didn't open - nay didn't try to open - his account for 23 deliveries. That took care of Tamim, who seemed to rebel against the team plan for 27 deliveries. For the other 273 legal deliveries of the chase - Kayes and Siddique, playing just for themselves, faced 224 of those - Bangladesh sabotaged international cricket.
Between the 13th and 39th over of the innings, three boundaries were hit - two of them unintentional edges and one a consequence of a dropped catch. There was no attempt made either. It wasn't that a certain net run-rate would carry them into the next round. It wasn't as if they had lost five early wickets and the tail was batting. Pakistan actually missed out on a great photo opportunity. They could have put in nine slips and still nobody would have tried to hit.
Jamie Siddons, Bangladesh's coach, actually defended (http://www.cricinfo.com/asia2010/content/current/story/464196.html) them. "I'm not going to let anyone criticise the team for our approach," he said. "If Tamim had made 150, we could have chased 350-380. That was our plan. He went out there to be aggressive, if he had his day, like [Shahid] Afridi, anything's possible, but Imrul and Junaid had no chance of making 385 off their bat. No chance."
Siddons omitted to talk about international sportsmen's basic obligation towards their own fans and the paying public - of trying for a contest. Thankfully nobody bothers about the Asia Cup, and there is World Cup football on TV.

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</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="3" align="center"> </td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="3" class="pullquotetext" id="pullquotetext" align="center"> The ICC, which did not make sure this tournament was played under proper floodlights, is very fond of fining players who bring the game into disrepute. Will it take any action against Bangladesh, who brought the game to more disrepute than a batsman does when he looks disbelieving upon being given out wrongly? </td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="4" align="center"> </td> </tr> <tr><td>
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</td> </tr> </tbody></table> It wasn't just a one-off either: chasing 359 in their last ODI against South Africa (http://www.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/350349.html), Bangladesh shut shop as soon as Tamim got out for a 22-ball 41 in the fifth over.
Roughly speaking, to fix a match is to deliberately underperform and lose for money. This wasn't much better. For three-and-a-half hours, one team deliberately didn't make an effort to win. Just that no extra money was made. But going by Siddons' remarks, there was no underperformance here. International cricket and Bangladesh fans deserve better.
"It is ridiculous to say, 'Why didn't you go out slogging?'" Siddons said. "We couldn't have done that without getting all out for another score of 140." Maybe they need a break from international cricket, if slogging is the only way they can go for a stiff target. At any rate, if they had got bowled out for 140, at least the fans would have known their team was trying to do something, and not just batting for their averages. And it is only childish to believe that the same approach will work when Bangladesh are chasing 246 next time. As if the bowling side will then bowl part-timers and not sweat over easy singles being taken.
The ICC, which did not make sure this tournament was played under proper floodlights, is very fond of fining players who bring the game into disrepute. Will it take any action against Bangladesh, who brought the game to more disrepute than a batsman does when he looks disbelieving upon being given out wrongly?

Monday night's events were like putting to sleep a pet that has long been suffering - ODI cricket being the poor mongrel that Bangladesh didn't think worth keeping alive. For their efforts, Kayes and Siddique were rewarded with bloated ODI averages and also cash awards called "Stylish Player of the Day" and "Jodi [partnership] of the Day".
The Bangladesh fans, though, were not happy, and made their displeasure known on internet forums, calling for better doctors, who will not keep putting down pets. The fans fear that this selfish attitude could kill not just ODIs but Bangladesh cricket too

Read full (http://www.cricinfo.com/asia2010/content/current/story/464245.html)

Miraz
June 22, 2010, 04:54 AM
Jamioe Siddons from the very beginning didn't believe in our abilities, he termed our wins as flukes and now he is installing the defeatist attitude among the boyd who played fearlessly during their U-19 level and was one of the best team in the world.

This micky mouse cricket must stop. If we cannot have the courage to play competitive cricket, we better stop playing cricket altogether.

BCB must issue a show-cause notice to the team and team management for this cowardly performance.

Unfortunately the Lotus Kamal led BCB itself is a junk.

Nadim
June 22, 2010, 04:55 AM
"I'm not going to let anyone criticise the team for our approach," he said. "If Tamim had made 150, we could have chased 350-380. That was our plan. He went out there to be aggressive, if he had his day, like [Shahid] Afridi, anything's possible, but Imrul and Junaid had no chance of making 385 off their bat. No chance."

So, he think Tamim is the only one player in the whole team who is capable of winning matches? negative mentality this takku have....

Zeeshan
June 22, 2010, 04:56 AM
*Opens the door for Sid apologists....*

Green Tea
June 22, 2010, 05:14 AM
There is no denying the fact that Bangladesh cricket team lost the match very badly against Pakistan cricket team. But I am totally disagree with you on this point "In affectionate remembrance of ODI cricket, which was killed by Bangladesh at Rangiri Dambulla International Stadium".

I am really shocked that you totally blame on Bangladesh cricket team on a large scale. They lost one match in utter humiliation and you only want to blame them for the large flaw inside the ODI system and cricket administration.

Bangladesh cricket team come here from middle of the England tour and has to go back England for the rest of the tour. It is quite challenging for any subcontinent team to go England and play descent cricket because of the weather and lively pitch. Consider the temperature now in England 20C but in SriLanka the temperature is 35C. It is very difficult for any team to adjust quickly.

Now, why this is happening? Because of the busyness of the schedule. There is a fixed time slot for the 'wretched' IPL but there is no time slot available for ASIA cup. Because the top ranking Asian countries do not earn much money from ASIA cup. Cricket schedule is so full now because of the twenty20 cricket. The ICC has no guts to stop this nonsense because of the pressure from corrupted cricket administrators. Even we (audience) also forget what is good or bad. IPL match clearly has no excitement because there is not enough quality players and no nationality involved but we have to accept it as a excitement fiesta because of the thousand line written every day by the journalists. They create a virtual reality that this is best of the best which is actually below par. This fiasco creates a negative impact on the audience and they no longer want to see cricket. But unfortunately this fact is always under the veil.

The main dangerous thing is that the cricket administrators do not want to decrease the total number of matches. On the other hand they are not afraid of changing the game rules. Experiment is not bad but over experiment is not appreciable. Consider the 3rd power play rule. This rule is only created for only team strong batting line up. This rule never gives any advantage to the weak teams which is against the spirit of the game. Excitement is part of the game and we all want some excitement from the game because probably we are dissatisfied of our own life. But we must also accept that not every match will be nail biting finish. If this becomes a common routine then where is the excitement.

So, Mr. Sidharth Monga please do not be such a drama queen! Observe the picture in bigger scale.

Miraz
June 22, 2010, 05:23 AM
Nobody pushed Bangladesh to just turn up for the Asia cup if they cannot compete due to jaded physical state (break-up from England tour etc. etc.).

They should have withdrawn themselves from the Asia Cup and that would have been much better than this humiliation. If you accept the challenge you are obliged to fight in a competitive sports.

simon
June 22, 2010, 05:24 AM
really bad strategy,& from his comments it seems like he had no faith on Sakib,Mushy,Ryad?
they were not even in the equation,it was all abt TI,Sddq & Kayes.

Roni_uk
June 22, 2010, 05:53 AM
10 years down the line, we will say it was us (team Bangladesh) who killed ODI cricket :(

beshideshi
June 22, 2010, 06:25 AM
I do not agree with what Jamie said, but I clearly see what the thinking process was. I'l ask you guys one question, except Tamim who was capable of winning us yesterday's game? Imrul/Junaid chasing 385? I don't think so. Our slimmest chance of winning evaporated as Tamim got out.
i still did not like the approach one bit, as I said, I would rather see Bangladesh give the game a go and get all out for 185 in 30 overs. It was the mentality rather than the execution which was painful to watch. In my 13-14 years of following cricket, yesterday was one of the most painful, every time Imrul blocked a ball, a little part of me died.

alibangali
June 22, 2010, 06:27 AM
A big chunk of my heart as an eccentric bd fan died yesterday :(
I always thought of our cricket being brave and exciting even in defeat
since siddons took over we have been cowardly and the hope of "improving" kept me interest.
Now i have lost hope and under this coach we will not achieve any success.

beshideshi
June 22, 2010, 06:27 AM
Nobody pushed Bangladesh to just turn up for the Asia cup if they cannot compete due to jaded physical state (break-up from England tour etc. etc.).

They should have withdrawn themselves from the Asia Cup and that would have been much better than this humiliation. If you accept the challenge you are obliged to fight in a competitive sports.

Not only this asia cup, I say we should have cancelled the NZ tour as well. We just landed in NZ and started playing cricket the next day! The difference between getting used to a condition and playing in alien conditions was probably best demonstrated at Lord's. [remember we were bundled below 200 against Surrey(or Essex :\)]

Tiger444
June 22, 2010, 07:35 AM
Jamioe Siddons from the very beginning didn't believe in our abilities, he termed our wins as flukes and now he is installing the defeatist attitude among the boyd who played fearlessly during their U-19 level and was one of the best team in the world.

This micky mouse cricket must stop. If we cannot have the courage to play competitive cricket, we better stop playing cricket altogether.

BCB must issue a show-cause notice to the team and team management for this cowardly performance.

Unfortunately the Lotus Kamal led BCB itself is a junk.

Lotus Kamal is the main culprit..isn't he the 1 who hired Siddons? I haven't realized all this time but looking at it now Siddons is just not a head coach..this was his 1st job and I have to admit, its a very hard assignment to coach Bangladesh..thats why we see some bits and pieces of Siddons is good but overall he's not a great coach..our batsmen have definitely improved under Siddons but like somebody said they just do not put it together..the main problem is he's very defensive in his approach because he fears that Bangladesh will get humiliated and who knows, it's also to save his job..after all he makes pretty good money and has power so of course he's gonna want the job..the main thing is that a coach is judged by how many games he won and lost and unfortunately Siddons wins have came against the weaker teams only..

The reason I blame Lotus Kamal a lot is because the guy doesn't care about our cricket and is just gonna ruin it..why doesn't he just spend more money for a very good coach with experience? I mean what are you gonna expect when you hand the job to a guy whose never been a head coach? Also wasn't he supposed to hire a CEO? What ever happened to that plan? We like to blame Siddons but we have to be against BCB more..they just are clueless about cricket and just care about their ego..we need people up at the top who care about cricket and not play petty politics..

BANFAN
June 22, 2010, 07:35 AM
It's time to compile all JS strategies & comments concerning BD cricket & cricket in general, since he took over. Some fans need to revisit some of the threads on JS. I see some of the same old stuff... he is doing a great job....... without showing any reason & justification.

Guys, I know our players are not like the ausies; and that's why we needed a foreign/ausie coach. It's the coach who sets the approach of the team. if they were lying down and taking it, that's a coach's fault. We have seen him doing it in the name of team rules before.

alibangali
June 22, 2010, 07:44 AM
It's time to compile all JS strategies & comments concerning BD cricket & cricket in general, since he took over. Some fans need to revisit some of the threads on JS. I see some of the same old stuff... he is doing a great job....... without showing any reason & justification.

Guys, I know our players are not like the ausies; and that's why we needed a foreign/ausie coach. It's the coach who sets the approach of the team. if they were lying down and taking it, that's a coach's fault. We have seen him doing it in the name of team rules before.

No need for a compilation, someone might commit suicide.

al-Sagar
June 22, 2010, 07:53 AM
Nobody pushed Bangladesh to just turn up for the Asia cup if they cannot compete due to jaded physical state (break-up from England tour etc. etc.).

They should have withdrawn themselves from the Asia Cup and that would have been much better than this humiliation. If you accept the challenge you are obliged to fight in a competitive sports.

i agree with

and in the end they are supposed to be professional cricketers. and as professional cricketers their job is to play cricket. and not playing for fun. playing for the sake of winning.

Kabir
June 22, 2010, 08:14 AM
Regardless of whatever the BD team did, the CricInfo staff's attitude was extremely poor, and well over the top.

Given that he's an eendian, his attitude towards cricket is well understood - no wonder the idea of 'crementing' made it to the article. Coz anything beyond that, they become painfully dumb and irritating, and fail to make any sense to even an effing monkey.

thebest
June 22, 2010, 08:22 AM
Regardless of whatever the BD team did, the CricInfo staff's attitude was extremely poor, and well over the top.

Given that he's an eendian, his attitude towards cricket is well understood - no wonder the idea of 'crementing' made it to the article. Coz anything beyond that, they become painfully dumb and irritating, and fail to make any sense to even an effing monkey.
"Crapinfo" would not write those "Non-sense" if we did not give them. those "eeindians" in "Criceendia" praised us only a month ago. So don't blame the critique blame those people who gave them the opportunity. May be I am lower than an effing monkey because it make sense to me and so is to majority of the cricket world

beshideshi
June 22, 2010, 08:29 AM
"Crapinfo" would not write those "Non-sense" if we did not give them. those "eeindians" in "Criceendia" praised us only a month ago. So don't blame the critique blame those people who gave them the opportunity. May be I am lower than an effing monkey because it make sense to me and so is to majority of the cricket world

Well, it's not really CI who bashed us, it was the new guy. I have said this earlier as well, his commentary was atrocious at times. He used horrible words, messed up grammars and gave the worst comments at times. Go through any Asia cup match commentary to gauge the level of stupidity.
And if I am not mistaken, the England match bulletins were mostly written by Andrew Miller, who seems to be a great supporter of BD cricket.

Kabir
June 22, 2010, 08:29 AM
"Crapinfo" would not write those "Non-sense" if we did not give them. those "eeindians" in "Criceendia" praised us only a month ago. So don't blame the critique blame those people who gave them the opportunity. May be I am lower than an effing monkey because it make sense to me and so is to majority of the cricket world

I doubt the same writer would appreciate us in any format. If you followed the live commentary, it was painfully idiotic. I understand that someone could be upset because of the way a team is playing. Totally okay with me. But he was stupid enough to call India's 58/10 a higher achievement.

I wonder if he was ever hugged when he was a kid.

nahaz
June 22, 2010, 08:31 AM
. "I'm not going to let anyone criticise the team for our approach," he said. "If Tamim had made 150, we could have chased 350-380. That was our plan. He went out there to be aggressive, if he had his day, like [Shahid] Afridi, anything's possible, but Imrul and Junaid had no chance of making 385 off their bat. No chance."
Siddons omitted to talk about international sportsmen's basic obligation towards their own fans and the paying public - of trying for a contest.

1. What kind of f***ing coach are you if your plan for a win for the TEAM is that your star player is going to be at his absolute best and score 150? Are you kidding me? You need a coach for that? Even half the members in this forum would have a better plan than that. You never rely on one player in cricket, especially a batsman. Where's the back-up plan? Why wouldn't Sakib, Riyad, Junaid be able to score at 100+SR? I know why...because you never prepared them for a situation where they take charge of the game.
2. What kind of a f***ing coach says their players are the absolute cream of the craps in every interview? You have coached this team for three years, why couldn't you change the situation? What have YOU done? Why could YOU not do anything to fix our pacers, instead of complaining that we have no Steyn or Lee?
3.When was the last time you did not do an end of match/series interview where you do NOT point your finger at someone? When was the last time you admitted to your own failures? Are you ever going to do it?

How do you sleep at night knowing that the team has been going backwards but you are still eating away at the salary of a thousand Bangladeshis?

Kabir
June 22, 2010, 08:32 AM
And by the way, by no means am I saying that our approach was correct. The team deserves all the criticism necessary. But don't you think that was mainly due to the wrong approach by Imrul? He's the one who scored a 20-ball single run score. Not Tamim. Junaid was playing fine, although at a lower SR than what would have been ideal. When Junaid gets out on 97, the commentator says something along the lines of good that he didn't get the century...coz he didn't deserve it.

What kinda effing nonsense is that?

riad
June 22, 2010, 09:00 AM
I have to comment on this issue ...
I was supporting JS until yesterday. I was willing to give him time based on bd cricket culture but now I really think he is not a TOTAL coach and he can not be a decision maker in the team. When I was watching Imrul blocking every ball I knew something is wrong within the team [infighting??]
And some one jus mentioned we were world's best team when these same guys were U19 and I agree 100%. I am watching these same guys for quite a some time and now they don't have 1% of the same spirit left when they were part of U19 team.

Very sad day for bd cricket and I kinda agree to dat "indian writer" ..... :sick:



And by the way, by no means am I saying that our approach was correct. The team deserves all the criticism necessary. But don't you think that was mainly due to the wrong approach by Imrul? He's the one who scored a 20-ball single run score. Not Tamim. Junaid was playing fine, although at a lower SR than what would have been ideal. When Junaid gets out on 97, the commentator says something along the lines of good that he didn't get the century...coz he didn't deserve it.

What kinda effing nonsense is that?

gunda
June 22, 2010, 11:28 AM
Agree 100% With this article. ICC needs to fine all these losers. Bangladesh are making mockery of cricket they taking cricket down with them. Boosting part time players average, Giving away easy records which previous generation of players worked hard for. Playing selfish cricket. Losing match after match.
Something needs to be done.

Beamer
June 22, 2010, 12:08 PM
Yes, it was a torture for neutral eyes, but in the face of absolute certainty , it is always preferable to delay the inevitable. Pakistan was always going to win with after our bowling performance, but at least we have Zunaid etching his name as no.3 in both versions. 1, 2, 3 are set now. Middle order is going through bad patch but that wont last forever. We have quality in Sakib, Mushy and Riyad. Zunaid has effectively displaced Ash ( which was needed ). Ash's void will be filled by Jahurul or Rahim. It serves us no purpose in granting Pakistan a quick victory, though victory was all but certain.

Miraz
June 22, 2010, 12:31 PM
Beamer, that's a very loyal support to Siddons. I admire your passion for Siddons. I don't think he deserves such a passionate and staunch supporter.

BTW, I don't agree that it was only a torture for the neutrals. I don't count myself as neutral when Bangladesh plays.

al Furqaan
June 22, 2010, 12:31 PM
Regardless of whatever the BD team did, the CricInfo staff's attitude was extremely poor, and well over the top.

Given that he's an eendian, his attitude towards cricket is well understood - no wonder the idea of 'crementing' made it to the article. Coz anything beyond that, they become painfully dumb and irritating, and fail to make any sense to even an effing monkey.

spot on!

are we the only two who notice this? cricinfo and its eendian puppet masters won't spare a nanosecond to jump on bangladesh as soon as they slip up. this has been the case since time immemorial.

how is BD killing ODI cricket? it doesn't matter if we ended the match 10-0 in 50 overs chasing a Pakistani total of 10,000...the whole point harped on by BCCI (and now ECB and CA as well) is that no one watches BD cricket matches.

so how can we kill it, when no one cares about our games to begin with???

clearly, expending logical coherence can be added to "deodorant" on the list of things Eendians are too cheap to bother spending rupees on.

Its perfectly fine to blast the BD approach - it was a disgraceful display. but that is only self-directed. It is completely untrue to call this the reaison d etre of the current ODI plight. this is just a backhanded way of calling for BD to not be anywhere near the elite group - cuz as it is we aren't in the elite group, and probably justifiably so.

nevertheless, the antagonism should not be mistaken.

Kabir
June 22, 2010, 12:32 PM
Thanks Beamer - you've articulated it better than I have.

shakibrulz
June 22, 2010, 12:35 PM
Regardless of whatever the BD team did, the CricInfo staff's attitude was extremely poor, and well over the top.

Given that he's an eendian, his attitude towards cricket is well understood - no wonder the idea of 'crementing' made it to the article. Coz anything beyond that, they become painfully dumb and irritating, and fail to make any sense to even an effing monkey.

Can't agree more. I'm an Indian, but his attitude and effing bias makes me puke.

Kabir
June 22, 2010, 12:36 PM
And thanks Asaad, for seeing the message that I've tried to convey.

I'm not sure how many of you followed the live commentary on ci, but it was blood boiling. The game was over at the innings break. The WORST we could do was try to chase it down and get all out within 150. We needed good quality practice - that's what we got. That was the second best thing to do.

Zeeshan
June 22, 2010, 12:40 PM
Can't agree more. I'm an Indian, but his attitude and effing bias makes me puke.

So the mask finally comes off. I knew my intuition was trying right besides Miraz da nicely figured it out with the coup de grace from roni da.

shakibrulz
June 22, 2010, 12:40 PM
And thanks Asaad, for seeing the message that I've tried to convey.

I'm not sure how many of you followed the live commentary on ci, but it was blood boiling. The game was over at the innings break. The WORST we could do was try to chase it down and get all out within 150. We needed good quality practice - that's what we got. That was the second best thing to do.

Precisely.

shakibrulz
June 22, 2010, 12:44 PM
So the mask finally comes off. I knew my intuition was trying right besides Miraz da nicely figured it out with the coup de grace from roni da.

Mask? That I'm an Indian? :floor:
I myself have said that before, it's not my problem that you haven't noticed it. And Besides I didn't know it was a sin for an Indian who follows BD cricket to join the forum and discuss about it.

al Furqaan
June 22, 2010, 12:46 PM
Yes, it was a torture for neutral eyes, but in the face of absolute certainty , it is always preferable to delay the inevitable. Pakistan was always going to win with after our bowling performance, but at least we have Zunaid etching his name as no.3 in both versions. 1, 2, 3 are set now. Middle order is going through bad patch but that wont last forever. We have quality in Sakib, Mushy and Riyad. Zunaid has effectively displaced Ash ( which was needed ). Ash's void will be filled by Jahurul or Rahim. It serves us no purpose in granting Pakistan a quick victory, though victory was all but certain.

well said...thought i was sure you were going to class this as a "honorable defeat". but very well put. its important to realize we have somethings now we've never had before, top 3 batsman are set for all formats. to be honest, Junaid and Imrul are more equiped for test cricket, than ODIs, but we don't have the luxury of India to switch a VVS Laxman for a Yuvraj Singh.

the middle order will come back to life, right now all of them are in tatters, and this "one in a thousand" type rarity of 3-4 guys hitting the worst form of their lives (ash, riyad, naeem, rahim, sakib) is RARE.

once those guys get back into form - call it a flat pitch, poor bowling, or home conditions - the scenario will change.

we just have to fix the bowling. and get a real bowling coach. Siddons, i am willing to concede, sucks as a head coach. but as a batting coach he is golden.

and ditto to what kabir said, that comment about Junaid missing a century was the biggest BS from a compatriot of Gavaskar 36* off 190+.

yes, it wasn't a great knock (unless the target had been under 300), but a 97 at 85 strike rate, is at worst a decent knock.

Neel Here
June 22, 2010, 01:01 PM
And thanks Asaad, for seeing the message that I've tried to convey.

I'm not sure how many of you followed the live commentary on ci, but it was blood boiling. The game was over at the innings break. The WORST we could do was try to chase it down and get all out within 150. We needed good quality practice - that's what we got. That was the second best thing to do.
if you really believe that, the team doesn't deserve to play at all. they should have packed their bags and gone home.

this is cricket we are talking about, stranger things have happened than a talented if rudderless BD team chasing 385. warwick armstrong's powerful australian side that absolutely pummeled the english in ashes(winning within 2-3 days most of the time) were beaten by a mere club level team in a tour game, even though armstrong tried his best to stay undefeated in the tour.
are you telling me that was easier than BD's job yesterday ? what harm was there to try ? by this effort you are literally shouting to the world "WE ARE NOT GOOD ENOUGH TO PLAY ODI". if you think you are not good enough, DON'T PLAY. I can't believe BD cricket fans are actually supporting this decision. :hairpull:

I said this on BC after BD lost to ireland in the T20WC, I'll say it again, you won't have improvement by bltching about cricinfo on BC, you will have it when angry fans burn lotus kamal and siddon's effigies on the streets of dhaka.

Neel Here
June 22, 2010, 01:05 PM
Regardless of whatever the BD team did, the CricInfo staff's attitude was extremely poor, and well over the top.

Given that he's an eendian, his attitude towards cricket is well understood - no wonder the idea of 'crementing' made it to the article. Coz anything beyond that, they become painfully dumb and irritating, and fail to make any sense to even an effing monkey. great, now bring religion into this, so classy ! :rolleyes:

Kabir
June 22, 2010, 01:15 PM
if you really believe that, the team doesn't deserve to play at all. they should have packed their bags and gone home.

...

I said this on BC after BD lost to ireland in the T20WC, I'll say it again, you won't have improvement by bltching about cricinfo on BC, you will have it when angry fans burn lotus kamal and siddon's effigies on the streets of dhaka.

I really don't have the time to explain myself to you on every post - to put it extremely politely.

But...here's the scenario. BD came from England during the tour to play Asia cup...and they're going back after the Asia cup to complete the ODI series. The match was already a goner...385 wasn't possible for BD to chase. We're no Armstrong - and please don't come back to me and say that we have to believe in ourselves. I think we have a pretty good idea of what we are capable of. I'm not backing Siddons up when I say this.

Under that circumstance...of course, the most productive use of our time would have been to try and chase it down, and if not chase it down completely...at least play out the whole 50 overs and get as close to the total as possible. Well - that didn't happen. The next best thing? Play out the 50 overs...get some good practice - whether it helps you in the England tour or not. The worst idea of all? Go all out - and get wrapped up in 30 overs. Lose the match, lose the opportunity to play some quality cricket.

To address your last issue - I'm not surprised that the idea of burning effigies came to you. I'm not among the ones who would bitch about CricInfo. I always try to get to our fault first. And anyone on BC who has seen me enough will agree with me on this. However, I don't think that there's anything for me to justify about my anger towards a monkey who rates Gavaskar's 195ball 36* over Junaid's 97 with 85 SR. And when he lost all the qualities of a rational being when he argued by saying that the 58/10 of India could be regarded more highly than the 250/5 of BD chase. Sorry, but something in there isn't making sense to a perfectly rational person like me. Perhaps I would have to live in his self-boasting world to get the message right.

Beamer
June 22, 2010, 01:16 PM
I will touch on what Al said here. We must go back and re-visit the time after Whatmore left and whoever that caretaker coach was in between ( nam ta ki jeno? bhuley gelam..insignificant lok ). That was a period of massive transition. Some stalwarts of BD cricket were on the verge of expiry date. Siddons in essence took charge of realtively new comers and he purged some members who were in between the team going in and out. Any new coach should be afforded the liberty specially if he is handed the task to pick and mold a new team. Which he did. He identified his core and more or less all of them, bar a few, are on the correct path, which all of you must agree with. In our situation at that time, it was more important to have the coach as the COACH, and not so much a MANAGER, since his task was to build the team around our weak suit- batting. Bowling has taken a nose dive since the injuries to Mash, Rasel and retirement of Rafiq and indifferent Raj. We are missing close to 40 overs of good established bowling in ODI's. I do not think, and I have always maintained that Siddons is probably not even close to being a bowling coach. That onus is on BCB to find and assist him with a good bowling coach, and its important that we do so now, more than ever. His original mission to improve individual skill was correct. Most batsmen in the team are improving ( that doesnt mean no one will go through tough period, everybody does ). Bowling has taken a nose dive and I am afraid he is not equipped to fix that. Whatmore may have been a good motivator or manager, but in my eyes, he failed what he needed him to do the most, which was to improve individual skills for the young players, so they can serve us long after Wahtmore is gone. I would say this, though Miraz won't agree, I am not a passionate fan of Siddons. I don't think he is a very good manager, not a bowling coach, but a darn good batting coach. That was his main task fololwing the purge, the ICL exodus, retirement of older players. Too bad the established bowling core is one the verge of extinction, and the newer bowlers are directionless. If I am allowed to break down coaching in three components: Batting, Bowling, Managing. Out of TEN, I would give Siddons 9 for batting, 0 for bowling and 2 for Managerial skills. Whatmore would get, 1 for batting ( as he did not develop a SINGLE young talent ), 5 for bowling ( bowling was better and whether it was because of him or not, he will get marks from me ), and a 5 for Managerial skills. However, with this team, it was more important to enhnace the batting impetus than any other skills. He has done that. Bowlers will get better- hopefully. Batsmen will get even better, and maybe then, a Coach who is also a good Manager, can get the ultimate we are s eeking- WINS. Thats my take in a nutshell. We will appreciate Siddons long after he is gone. I think he will become a better overall coach after he leaves us.

Kabir
June 22, 2010, 01:17 PM
great, now bring religion into this, so classy ! :rolleyes:

Dude. Get off my back. The idea was thrown in there by mr. monkey...i just pointed it out.

And no, I'm not among the ignorants who don't have a clue about the Indian population.

Don't start an argument on something that's not there.

Kabir
June 22, 2010, 01:18 PM
great, now bring religion into this, so classy ! :rolleyes:

Not that I feel that I owe you an explanation - but I was relating the idea with burning effigies.

Miraz
June 22, 2010, 01:24 PM
Beamer, you are right. With Siddons, there is no present, everything will happen in the future. It was true after his first year in charge when Bangladesh lost all their international matches. It is still true after 3 years in charge, Bangladesh have lost every international match this year. With his defeatist appraoch this will always remain true and the successful future will always remain elusive and he will keep pointing fingers here and there.

Dilscoop
June 22, 2010, 01:27 PM
Since yesterday, I could remember few other matches that we can compare this with. Where target was high to our ability, but approach was heroic. Where we scored similar amount of runs, but approach was entertaining. Where we lost, but our approach was to go in there for a kill. Clearly, every one knew we would lose, but that didn't mean we punish them for it?

http://www.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/64917.html
http://www.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/64837.html
http://www.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/211579.html
http://www.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/64625.html

There are more cases, where the opposition scored lot of runs, but we never gave up, we never had such loser approach. Instead we went after it, just for the hell of it. No other team approached like this, even we didnt. And it wasn't just a Whatmore era, even during our worst days, even before Whatmore, when were the loser of the losers, we did not have this type of attitude.

Beamer
June 22, 2010, 01:32 PM
But, the present is future with the batsmen, Miraz. Hypothetically speaking, if Siddons came on board around 2015, with this core in their prime, and not able to win matches, then I would have issues. I would love us to win matches now. But, you and I both know, with the bolwers we have it is very difficult. Either we find a bowling coach who transforms them into a winning unit, or there are some unknown names yet to be found who are match winners, I am afraid we will continue to lose, irrespective of how much the batsmen have improved.

Anyway, I do think Siddons has done some good work where we needed the most. Even a Harvard MBA, as a manager, won't get anything done if the workers under him have High school education. Siddons is just getting the pupils graduated from college. Have some patience bro.

Miraz
June 22, 2010, 01:35 PM
If you play for defeat and inflate batting average, batting will always look healthy as the batsmen take almost zero risk to accelerate scoring. Siddons is giving us that wrong impression with inflated batting averages while we are losing matches by hefty margins or even before our innings has begun.

If you play for win and batsmen can still score decent runs, only then you can say batting has improved significantly.

And current bunch of players were world beaters at U-19 level. They were already much better batsmen than the previous lot. I don't see huge influence of Siddons to make them better. Now, they became sore losers with losing mentality and that's a huge influence of Siddons.

Neel Here
June 22, 2010, 01:38 PM
I'm not surprised that the idea of burning effigies came to you.
might I know what you mean by that ? since it is directly referred to me I believe I've a right to know.
Dude. Get off my back. The idea was thrown in there by mr. monkey...i just pointed it out.

And no, I'm not among the ignorants who don't have a clue about the Indian population.

Don't start an argument on something that's not there.
I know you pointed it out, I'm asking the point of making an association between him being an Indian and cremation ? I guess you will not apply the same connection to the lords crowd that burnt the stumps to create 'ashes' ? if it's 'not there' then what exactly is the point of your comment ?


But...here's the scenario. BD came from England during the tour to play Asia cup...and they're going back after the Asia cup to complete the ODI series. The match was already a goner...385 wasn't possible for BD to chase. We're no Armstrong - and please don't come back to me and say that we have to believe in ourselves. I think we have a pretty good idea of what we are capable of. I'm not backing Siddons up when I say this.
read my post again, I didn't say you were. armstrong's superpower australia team LOST to a club level team that was captained by a person who was 63 years old at the time (if memory serves right)!
now do you get my point ?


Under that circumstance...of course, the most productive use of our time would have been to try and chase it down, and if not chase it down completely...at least play out the whole 50 overs and get as close to the total as possible. Well - that didn't happen. The next best thing? Play out the 50 overs...get some good practice - whether it helps you in the England tour or not. The worst idea of all? Go all out - and get wrapped up in 30 overs. Lose the match, lose the opportunity to play some quality cricket.
it didn't happen because the team didn't try, on instruction from the coach, it wasn't something that depended on luck. people won't have said these things if they tried for 20-25 overs and gave up after losing 4-5 wickets. they didn't try from ball one !!!! :timeout: that is plain disgraceful ! even with nine wickets in hand there was no attempt to accelerate !
this is cheating, not towards anyone else but the millions of committed BD cricket fans, they deserve to see their team at least make an honest effort.

However, I don't think that there's anything for me to justify about my anger towards a monkey who rates Gavaskar's 195ball 36* over Junaid's 97 with 85 SR. I haven't seen this particular comparison but if he did it's a stupid one. that still doesn't justify your insults against his nationality in any way, anymore than yesterday's performance stamps bangladeshis as a whole as losers and escapists.

And when he lost all the qualities of a rational being when he argued by saying that the 58/10 of India could be regarded more highly than the 250/5 of BD chase. pretty please, it was an odd pi.ss poor performance but an honest effort all the same. I can agree with the comparison to gavaskar's innings (for which he was literally hauled over coals in the media) but not with this.

the point of playing competitive sports is to win. BD didn't even try that once yesterday ! that is a mockery of cricket which the 58 AO never was.

Neel Here
June 22, 2010, 01:41 PM
Since yesterday, I could remember few other matches that we can compare this with. Where target was high to our ability, but approach was heroic. Where we scored similar amount of runs, but approach was entertaining. Where we lost, but our approach was to go in there for a kill. Clearly, every one knew we would lose, but that didn't mean we punish them for it?

http://www.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/64917.html
http://www.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/64837.html
http://www.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/211579.html
http://www.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/64625.html

There are more cases, where the opposition scored lot of runs, but we never gave up, we never had such loser approach. Instead we went after it, just for the hell of it. No other team approached like this, even we didnt. And it wasn't just a Whatmore era, even during our worst days, even before Whatmore, when were the loser of the losers, we did not have this type of attitude.

thanks a lot for searching out these matches dilscoop !

these performances are worth a 1000 times than yesterday's disgraceful effort.

Murad
June 22, 2010, 01:41 PM
If the team is all dependent on Tamim, then why play the other batsmen? You have to have trust in all your batsmen, only then they can perform well.

War shuru howar aagei jodi here jai, then war e jaowar e ba ki dorkar? I wouldn't feel bad if they have tried to chase it and failed. i wouldn't feel sad if they got all out for 150 or so.

NO good coach would make such comments in public. He must resign or be fired for making these useless comments in public again and again.

This guy will take us nowhere with the negative mindset. We don't need Tendu or Sehwab or Ponting to win games.

Neel Here
June 22, 2010, 01:44 PM
miraz bhai, I don't agree that siddons is all failure, the performance in tests has definitely improved and that counts for a lot. But I agree with you on one thing, siddons has nothing more to give BD cricket. this attitude will really hurt in the long run. negative attitude is like a dangerous contagious disease, I'm really afraid for this team now.

Miraz
June 22, 2010, 01:48 PM
Neel, I do agree that our performance in Test has improved, but we are still losing every Test match due to the attitude problem. With Siddons at helm, our boys will never believe that we can even think of a win or a draw. That's the main problem in Tests.

In ODIs, we have simply walked backwards.

shakibrulz
June 22, 2010, 01:51 PM
read my post again, I didn't say you were. armstrong's superpower australia team LOST to a club level team that was captained by a person who was 63 years old at the time (if memory serves right)!
now do you get my point ?

Any links to this match scorecard/reports? And what makes you think it's not because they took the that match too lightly?

Neel Here
June 22, 2010, 01:57 PM
Neel, I do agree that our performance in Test has improved, but we are still losing every Test match due to the attitude problem. With Siddons at helm, our boys will never believe that we can even think of a win or a draw. That's the main problem in Tests.

In ODIs, we have simply walked backwards.

I can't but sadly nod my head to this. I think siddons has used up his bag of tricks and whatever he could give is given, nothing more can be expected of him. now is the lebu beshi kochlaile stage.

Any links to this match scorecard/reports? And what makes you think it's not because they took the that match too lightly? bhai I haven't saved the report. they didn't take it lightly because they were trying to have an undefeated tour of england, a first for australia back then and two, it would have been extremely embarassing for armstrong's mighty australians to lose to a lowly team like that.
also, (if memory serves right) neville cardus had covered the match.

shakibrulz
June 22, 2010, 02:05 PM
bhai I haven't saved the report. they didn't take it lightly because they were trying to have an undefeated tour of england, a first for australia back then and two, it would have been extremely embarassing for armstrong's mighty australians to lose to a lowly team like that.
also, (if memory serves right) neville cardus had covered the match.

Bro but what I'm trying to say is when they tend to take the opposition lightly, even a bunch of kids could upset them. That doesn't necessarily mean they played their hearts out. And are you sure that they were playing a full strength team? It may apparently look like a great upset, like that of Zimbabwe recently, but many factors need to be taken into account. And remember, Pak didn't even have a single victory in this year, so it's obvious that they'll play their heart out to thrash BD for a convincing win. Thought the pitch was pretty flat, under the dim lit lights of Dambullah, it's pretty hard to chase.

Beamer
June 22, 2010, 02:19 PM
Neel, I do agree that our performance in Test has improved, but we are still losing every Test match due to the attitude problem. With Siddons at helm, our boys will never believe that we can even think of a win or a draw. That's the main problem in Tests.

In ODIs, we have simply walked backwards.

Just like before, as it is now, we can't win a test match unless we can take 20 wkts. Its the bowlers. Batsmen are stretching the game to five days more or less consistently. When we don't have bowlers, captains set negative field, and negativity creeps in. No coach can change that. Its all with bowlers.

In ODIs we are facing multi problems. Shoddy bowling top to finish. Over reliance on Tamim and all of sudden loss of form among the middle order batsmen. One thing is always bad, which is running between the wkts. It was bad then. It is bad now. Siddons has to take blame for that, but batsmen must develop understanding, and over reliane on boundaries can be pointed at for part of it. Once again, its bowling that is letting us down massievly in one dayers. It used to be a strong suit at one point.

Beamer
June 22, 2010, 02:30 PM
If you play for defeat and inflate batting average, batting will always look healthy as the batsmen take almost zero risk to accelerate scoring. Siddons is giving us that wrong impression with inflated batting averages while we are losing matches by hefty margins or even before our innings has begun.

If you play for win and batsmen can still score decent runs, only then you can say batting has improved significantly.

And current bunch of players were world beaters at U-19 level. They were already much better batsmen than the previous lot. I don't see huge influence of Siddons to make them better. Now, they became sore losers with losing mentality and that's a huge influence of Siddons.

I can remember previous instances when JO, Rajin and Pilot did exactly the same things when outcome was all but certain. I guess they were playing for avgs, or worse, for a spot in the team.

Siddons has made them better. They are saying so. I will take their word for it.

Siddons has one day line -up problems. He just doesnt know which batsman to play where. That has been consistent since he has been with us. I am telling you he is not much of a Manager specially when it comes to shorter version.

I just hope you and the rest are not labelling me as a blind fan, passionate pro-Siddons guy, or apologist. I always say whats on my mind. I maybe wrong. I am sometimes right. I am a Tiger maniac first :D

Miraz
June 22, 2010, 02:32 PM
Beamer, there is another result in Test matches which is called draw and you don't have to take 20 wickets to achieve that results I believe. No?

Beamer
June 22, 2010, 02:36 PM
Once we start taking games to five days consistently, and with some luck, and favorable weather, we will draw some games. Its getting closer. I can sniff it.

Spitfire_x86
June 22, 2010, 02:39 PM
Since yesterday, I could remember few other matches that we can compare this with. Where target was high to our ability, but approach was heroic. Where we scored similar amount of runs, but approach was entertaining. Where we lost, but our approach was to go in there for a kill. Clearly, every one knew we would lose, but that didn't mean we punish them for it?

http://www.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/64917.html
http://www.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/64837.html
http://www.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/211579.html
http://www.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/64625.html
I've watched every single match in your list. In NONE of them we were playing for victory.

#1 - Rajin = Last match' s Junaid
#2 -Similar to #1, at no point we had the chasing down the target in mind.
#3 - JO = Last match's Imrul, Ash = luckiest day of his life. Collingwood got 5 wickets due to inteptness of batsmen, not because we were wiling to take few risks to chase down the target (much like how Sehwag got 4 wickets in this series against us)
#4 - Same as #1 and #2, Rokon and Pilot 50 came in the process of trying to bat out 50 overs. Pilot was particularly good at scoring this kind of useless runs.

I hated that kind of batting back in those days, and hated our yesterday's approach too.

al Furqaan
June 22, 2010, 02:40 PM
If you play for defeat and inflate batting average, batting will always look healthy as the batsmen take almost zero risk to accelerate scoring. Siddons is giving us that wrong impression with inflated batting averages while we are losing matches by hefty margins or even before our innings has begun.

If you play for win and batsmen can still score decent runs, only then you can say batting has improved significantly.


perhaps the batting improvement isn't stellar, buts its better than nothing.

when imrul and junaid are scoring 100s overseas, and then hitting 50s consistently in both formats, with their lowest strike rates being the thing of Javed Omar's dreams it means we have improved by a long way.

imrul and junaid are the JO's of this team.

tamim is a known quantity, and i don't even need to speak of his fire.

shakib, is going through a lean patch - and i detest his weak-*** field placements - but no can deny that he can turn any given match with either bat or ball. whatmore's team had no one on either side of the crease capable of similar things with the same consistency. all whatmore had was a twice a year phenom in Ashraful.

enter, mushy, riyad, and naeem. these guys are also going through lean pacthes, but they have shown that they can fight it out when the time demands. as beamer said, everyone will struggle from time to time, and even the great Sachin has had barren calendar years, rare though it might be.

bowling, i have nothing to say, except that i hope and pray it comes together in the next 6 months.

And current bunch of players were world beaters at U-19 level. They were already much better batsmen than the previous lot. I don't see huge influence of Siddons to make them better. Now, they became sore losers with losing mentality and that's a huge influence of Siddons.[/QUOTE]

U19 is a different level. and one of the main differences is our U19ers who may be superior at age 20 to the rest of the best, skip rigorous domestic and unofficial int'l grooming. thus, when you compare them to seasoned 24-35 year olds form the top sides, they end up falling well behind.

a good example is ishant sharma. he came straight off 19 level with no domestic seasoning. like a BD player, he started off promisingly, and then has totally falled apart. it remains to be seen what happens to Mohammad Aamir, but he at least played a full season of FC cricket and dominated there, averaging 15 with the cherry.

rubel played like 3 FC matches when he made his Test debut, and averaged 50. shafiul had fewer than 15 combined List A and FC caps. mashrafee, as is famously known, made his FC debut in a Test match!!!

Beamer
June 22, 2010, 02:51 PM
Spitty- Pilots later years were a torture. 50 ball 10. 65 ball 13..Same approach as last game, except him and others did it on quite a few occassions. People are putting extra sugar on everything Whatmore, and more salt to everything Siddons.

Miraz
June 22, 2010, 02:54 PM
Once we start taking games to five days consistently, and with some luck, and favorable weather, we will draw some games. Its getting closer. I can sniff it.

Again future, no present. Can we have something for the present? Can you please ask your coach ? Please!!!!

Beamer
June 22, 2010, 02:58 PM
You are the one with the interview sessions. You ask him. Naki..interview decline korlo recently Miraz? You ask. We are listening.

Miraz
June 22, 2010, 03:00 PM
You are the one with the interview sessions. You ask him. Naki..interview decline korlo recently Miraz? You ask. We are listening.

There is nothing new mate!! He keeps saying the same thing, belittling our cricketers and our ability, gives hope for the future. There is no present tense in terms of results in Siddons book.

dolcevita
June 22, 2010, 04:18 PM
Yessterday junaid bats well , if kayes has batted as junaid we would have scored 300 runs !!!
<br />Posted via BC Mobile Edition (iPhone)

Raynman
June 22, 2010, 04:51 PM
Am I the only one who finds it offensive that as a head coach he has absolutely no desire/approach to encourage the bowlers and is ready to throw them under the bus just so he can protect his precious batsmen?

Blame the bowlers all you want but there is a reason why our bowlng sucks now. They haven't gotten any respect in the team since this guy took over.

Even if you look at the batting side of things Tamim is aggressive which goes against everything Siddons stands for. The batting has improved in terms of the ability to dead block a ball into the ground but not so much in terms of strokeplay. All of Shakib's meaningful innings' (including tests) has been aggressive risky. What happened to Chokka Naeem? Why is his big hitting ability curbed to defense?

Riyad was a prospect and he was wasted at the tail and finally pushed up the order after losing his form.

Imrul and Junaed have both shown T20 skills (Junaed vs. PAK and Imrul in the domestics) but under Siddons they have been a waste in that format.

I do not believe he is best we could get for what we're paying for Siddons and taking into account the figuartive price we're paying, he is definitely worth it.

Tiger444
June 22, 2010, 05:40 PM
Spitty- Pilots later years were a torture. 50 ball 10. 65 ball 13..Same approach as last game, except him and others did it on quite a few occassions. People are putting extra sugar on everything Whatmore, and more salt to everything Siddons.

The thing is Whatmore did win games..I'll admit that I'm not a big Whatmore fan but when he came in to the team let's face it we just sucked..when he came in 2003, we did not win a game, not even against Canada, then in 2004 we beat Zimbabwe, India, and Hong Kong..then 2005 we started distancing ourselves from Zimbabwe by beating them in a test match and also winning the ODI series..then we beat Australia in that famous win..2006 we beat Sri Lanka 1st time and in Zimbabwe we lost that series but once they came back we annihilated them and Scotland..then in 2007 we beat Zimbabwe at their home..and then the famous World Cup wins against India and South Africa..of course they were once in a blue moon wins but before he came we could not even beat Zimbabwe and Kenya but then we started to distance ourselves..he also won against test teams which is a huge deal, remember also we had very inconsistent players that time and no people those were not fluke wins, those were wins that we deserved..we went from a team with no confidence in winning games to all of a sudden showing glimpses of fight..

Now let's see Siddons..he got some raw but talented players and to his credit he has made them good batsmen, for example, Tamim, Shakib, Mahmud, and Mushy all got much better under his guidance..but when you look at the wins he just beat Zimbabwe home and away and WI 2nd string team, then the NZ and SL wins..he's been here for 3 years now and I just don't see us moving up..we're just doing the same thing since the Whatmore era but not going to the next step, competing with test teams and beating teams..I know this step is harder but I don't see us closing the gap..in tests I agree our batting has gotten better and we have improved in that department although I would like to see more draws..I feel ODIs we just have not improved overall, I don't think we've gone downhill, just not improving..

That's what my opinion is, the main thing is Whatmore has brought us wins while Siddons has not and it doesn't sound fair but in the end that's how we have 2 judge coaches..

Tiger-ess
June 22, 2010, 05:50 PM
Beamer, you are right. With Siddons, there is no present, everything will happen in the future. It was true after his first year in charge when Bangladesh lost all their international matches. It is still true after 3 years in charge, Bangladesh have lost every international match this year. With his defeatist appraoch this will always remain true and the successful future will always remain elusive and he will keep pointing fingers here and there.

While I agree with what your saying, and like the large majority of BCers I also strongly disagree with Siddons' approach towards 'improving bangladesh cricket'. But how do you play down what our players have individually achieved under this man?? I mean not only the likes of Zunaid, Riyad, Mushi have flourished since Siddons' arrival, but guys like Shakib-Tamim have been an absolute revelation under Jamie Siddons. Ok, yes Shakib's all-rounder success is largely due to his bowling, and one would say that Tamim has always been consistent for bangladesh. But what has happened to these 2 in the Siddons era is that the tag labelled 'World Class' has been slapped on them(all so suddenly).
Back to the Mushi, now Im not as intellectual as all you BC members and therfore i have no idea how to retrieve ancient threads, But I clearly remember when Jamie Siddons spoke highly of Mushfiqur Rahim at a time when Mushi was scoring 0s, 1s and 2s consistently and looked finished basically. He called him the 'Golden Boy' of bangladesh cricket. Everyone was taken aback by his comments given the timing and all. It just seemed so odd and stupid and people were like the guys has lost it, he cant be the coach etc etc ! but few years down the line and look at mushi's position within the team and amonst fans.:-D

I personally think Jamie Siddons is not the right man for us and that he needs to go but surely these things must count for something??/:)

Neel Here
June 22, 2010, 05:52 PM
it doesn't have to be a binary decision you know. he can have done some good but still not enough.

1137moiz
June 22, 2010, 06:15 PM
CRAP article by crapinfo's crappiest crap-disher

Ajfar
June 22, 2010, 06:17 PM
I wish I had a time machine so I could go back to that match let the batsmans bat how ever the hell they want to all out around 150 in 35 something overs and then half the folks here myself including would be going modon gula 50 over o bat korte parlo na. We are as confusing as our team.
<br />Posted via BC Mobile Edition (iPhone)

Ajfar
June 22, 2010, 07:15 PM
There are more cases, where the opposition scored lot of runs, but we never gave up, we never had such loser approach. Instead we went after it, just for the hell of it. No other team approached like this, even we didnt. And it wasn't just a Whatmore era, even during our worst days, even before Whatmore, when were the loser of the losers, we did not have this type of attitude.

alright Mr. smart guy just looking up scorecards at cricinfo doesn't mean anything. Here is what I dug up about the links you posted.

http://www.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/64837.html

for this match we didn't start out too bad. this is what we had after the 10th over.
End of over 10 (6 runs) Bangladesh 43/1 (260 runs required from 40 overs, RR: 4.30, RRR: 6.50). Notice the RR 4.30. and RRR is 6.50. and than this happened.
This is where we were after 15th over.
End of over 15 (2 runs) Bangladesh 57/1 (246 runs required from 35 overs, RR: 3.80, RRR: 7.02) Notice the RR 3.80. RR 7.02.
This is where we were after 20th over.
End of over 20 (7 runs) Bangladesh 80/1 (223 runs required from 30 overs, RR: 4.00, RRR: 7.43)Notice the RR and RRR.
After the 25th over.
End of over 25 (8 runs) Bangladesh 105/2 (198 runs required from 25 overs, RR: 4.20, RRR: 7.92) Norice RR and RRR.
After 30th over.
End of over 30 (4 runs) Bangladesh 123/2 (180 runs required from 20 overs, RR: 4.10, RRR: 9.00). Notice RR and RRR.
I'll just skip to the 40th over now.
End of over 40 (6 runs) Bangladesh 175/2 (128 runs required from 60 balls, RR: 4.37, RRR: 12.80)

So now please explain how exactly did we go for it. or to be specific when exactly did we go for it?

http://www.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/211579.html

This is the match where Ashraful hit that 54 ball 94. What's so special about this match except that 94 from Ashraful. Did you even bothered to look at JO's strike rate for that match. Here i'll save you a trip to cricinfo. His strike rate for that match was 55.66.That must have been one hell of chase right? specially since our RR at the end of the 10th over was 3.30. and RRR was 8.97. When Ashraful got out this is where we were.
End of over 26 (10 runs) Bangladesh 155/3 (237 runs required from 24 overs, RR: 5.96, RRR: 9.87).
and about 9 overs later this is where we were.
End of over 35 (9 runs) Bangladesh 195/5 (197 runs required from 15 overs, RR: 5.57, RRR: 13.13)

http://www.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/64917.html
For this match I am not going to bother posting the RR and RRR since its a lot similar to the first one. But just to give you an idea here is where we were half way through the innings.
End of over 25 (5 runs) Bangladesh 113/4 (236 runs required from 25 overs, RR: 4.52, RRR: 9.44) Notice RR and RRR.

I couldn't find anything on the other match because there is no commentary available. so i'm eagerly looking forward to find out about these chases from you.

Hyro
June 22, 2010, 11:46 PM
I really don't have the time to explain myself to you on every post - to put it extremely politely.

But...here's the scenario. BD came from England during the tour to play Asia cup...and they're going back after the Asia cup to complete the ODI series. The match was already a goner...385 wasn't possible for BD to chase. We're no Armstrong - and please don't come back to me and say that we have to believe in ourselves. I think we have a pretty good idea of what we are capable of. I'm not backing Siddons up when I say this.

Under that circumstance...of course, the most productive use of our time would have been to try and chase it down, and if not chase it down completely...at least play out the whole 50 overs and get as close to the total as possible. Well - that didn't happen. The next best thing? Play out the 50 overs...get some good practice - whether it helps you in the England tour or not. The worst idea of all? Go all out - and get wrapped up in 30 overs. Lose the match, lose the opportunity to play some quality cricket.
.

quality cricket ? u call that quality cricket ? its the most shameful cricket we've seen for a long time...

the problem is u didnt even try to chase... that idiot who opened with Tamim took 24 balls to get his first run.... thats not even playing test cricket when the avg runs per innings in tests these days is over 3... so he was under orders just to block & waste as much deliveries as possible

so u did not even wanna try.. thats why u r the laughing stock of the cricket world after this match... I'm so pissed at u guys because i am a fan of your team... and the way u disgraced your selves is pathetic...

and i stress...r u going to adopt the same strategy form here on..any score above 320..u gonna giv up & just say "we cant win this..so lets play the 50 overs?'..cause that seems to be the atitude of your coach..your team & fans like your self..

then pls dont bother to play ODIs anymore... because u just dont deserve to play it if that is the case

One World
June 23, 2010, 01:21 AM
I can see the view point. Suddenly blame goes to Bangladesh!!
Our team is ordinary as declared by the best flashy batsman of the world and what did his team do in Zim and Asia cup as well.
India has to wait on Harbhajan to clinch a tense finish and then perish to a part-timer like Maharoof who gets in to the record book with the likes of Wasim Akram, Edo Brandes, Saqlain, Vaas and Shahdat Hussain!!

Oh, the best team of the world right there cannot even beat Zim.

alibangali
June 23, 2010, 03:35 AM
Beamer, you are right. With Siddons, there is no present, everything will happen in the future. It was true after his first year in charge when Bangladesh lost all their international matches. It is still true after 3 years in charge, Bangladesh have lost every international match this year. With his defeatist appraoch this will always remain true and the successful future will always remain elusive and he will keep pointing fingers here and there.

If this defeatist mindframe carries on longer than it will affect the current players long after JS has gone. It will be difficult for the players to change their mentality and approach. I am afraid for the future of our cricket.

This obsession with improving individuals stats at the cost of the match has to stop. I am all for players improving their stats while trying to win matches. Also our obsession with batting has to stop, bowling is a vital part of cricket as well.

Baundule
June 23, 2010, 04:22 AM
You are the one with the interview sessions. You ask him. Naki..interview decline korlo recently Miraz? You ask. We are listening.
:D

I think, Miraz bhai should ask Siddons only one Question: "As a coach what are your mistakes?"

nahaz
June 23, 2010, 06:59 AM
1. Why do we keep attacking India and its fans? Problem is with us right now.
2. Why do ppl have to compare stats from Whatmore and Siddons era?

Whatmore took us out of a 54 match losing streak I believe. It was ridiculous back then. He was one of the boys, hence he could connect with them and inspire them. He did not get boys with proper cricket training from 13 years of age. Some did not get it till after 25. Siddons did. Shakib, Mashrafee, Tamim, Mushfique, Riyad, Neem all were products of BKSP and U-19 team and its coaching staff. The guys already had a solid cirkceting mould. He did improve Tamim, Riyad, Mushfique and Imrul.

But look at how he has neglected and butchered the bowlers. Its his own fault that they cannot win us a single ODI or test. He always criticises and puts down the pacers. A coach at any level is expected to give some encouragement to his players, no matter how professional they are. These guys come in, and a month later they have to hear the coach making a suggestion as ridiculous as " we do not have any pacers in Bangladesh who can bowl at any pace...let's get any Jack or Tom from England playing any 1st division team who bowls, since the English air will make them great!" Pathetic. Shafi is good enough to be better than a Ryan Harris. A few others can be up there with the best of Asia. In case Siddons hasn't noticed, none of the Indian pacers bowl faster than our fastest two/three, but they have honed their skills and collectively can take 10 wickets in any match. This is because their coaches know how to work with their limited resources instead of whinging about it.

Our pacers do not seem to have any self-belief or discipline. There is no steady selection policy. Captain Sakib, and coach, have both dished out criticism time and again about their bowling. I have not heard such criticism of even the WIndies pacers over the last decade, when with much more talent and heritage they could not better our pace attack by much (till the last two years). I blame Siddons, and his shagred, for ruining the pacers.

Spin bowling has also gone backwards. Shakib and Riyad I suspect have done well due to devotion of spin coach Salauddin, but we do not have any other spinners performing now. Razzak the deadweight is still assumed to be the best specialist spinner by siddons, and there is no replacement plan. Naeem is clearly no bowling talent, but they still treat him as all-rounder. On the other hand, there's Saqlian sajib and a couple of others who have mesmarised the domestic teams but Siddons won't even have a look at htem. Its all a mess.

WIth World Cup now 7 months away, Siddons still is exactly at the saem spot at end of year 1.
:D

I think, Miraz bhai should ask Siddons only one Question: "As a coach what are your mistakes?"

That would be a very good question to ask.

Hyro
June 23, 2010, 07:34 AM
I can see the view point. Suddenly blame goes to Bangladesh!!
Our team is ordinary as declared by the best flashy batsman of the world and what did his team do in Zim and Asia cup as well.
India has to wait on Harbhajan to clinch a tense finish and then perish to a part-timer like Maharoof who gets in to the record book with the likes of Wasim Akram, Edo Brandes, Saqlain, Vaas and Shahdat Hussain!!

Oh, the best team of the world right there cannot even beat Zim.

me not indian :big_hug: ...and I'll take a beating by an exiting zim side who is hungry for a win..rather than a team that has a pathetic looser mentality who whines & accepts defeat before they even come to bat if a 300+ score is made by the oposition...

but wait..what am i talking about a beating ? u will surely not even come to bat the next time around if the score is more than 320 ? whats the point ne ? :) its impossible to even try to win according to your coach ne ? and u i'm sure u agree with him 100%

seriously dude....why bother even playing ODIs from now on ?.... u have accepted that u r the pussies of cricket..and u trying so hard to justify this makes it even more hilarious..

Carry on with your arguments on trying to justify your team trying to be the ultimate looses in international cricket

Tiger444
June 23, 2010, 07:45 AM
me not indian :big_hug: ...and I'll take a beating by an exiting zim side who is hungry for a win..rather than a team that has a pathetic looser mentality who whines & accepts defeat before they even come to bat if a 300+ score is made by the oposition...

but wait..what am i talking about a beating ? u will surely not even come to bat the next time around if the score is more than 320 ? whats the point ne ? :) its impossible to even try to win according to your coach ne ? and u i'm sure u agree with him 100%

seriously dude....why bother even playing ODIs from now on ?.... u have accepted that u r the pussies of cricket..and u trying so hard to justify this makes it even more hilarious..

Carry on with your arguments on trying to justify your team trying to be the ultimate looses in international cricket

Let me guess, your Sri Lankan? :umm: well that doesn't matter but ya I understand how fans of other countries are not happy with this either..there is just no justifying in going for the win..no excuse you have to always go 4 the win and once our boys see that monster target they take the safe way out and just try to get mid 250's..if we keep on following this approach its just gonna hurt us..we have 2 start fighting for wins or else what's the point of playing cricket then?

al-Sagar
June 23, 2010, 07:48 AM
Beamer, there is another result in Test matches which is called draw and you don't have to take 20 wickets to achieve that results I believe. No?

we should have drawn at least three or four tests this year. but our batsman's stupidity lack of intents let not draw any of them.

al Furqaan
June 23, 2010, 04:07 PM
I can see the view point. Suddenly blame goes to Bangladesh!!
Our team is ordinary as declared by the best flashy batsman of the world and what did his team do in Zim and Asia cup as well.
India has to wait on Harbhajan to clinch a tense finish and then perish to a part-timer like Maharoof who gets in to the record book with the likes of Wasim Akram, Edo Brandes, Saqlain, Vaas and Shahdat Hussain!!

Oh, the best team of the world right there cannot even beat Zim.

Like.

in response to the [most likely indians] who ask "should bangladesh have their Test/ODI status?"

the perfect answer is: "we'll give up playing when India forfeits all finals matches they qualify for since their finals record is nearly as pathetic as our overall ODI record"

i don't see how anyone can argue with that.

alibangali
June 23, 2010, 04:26 PM
Am I the only one who finds it offensive that as a head coach he has absolutely no desire/approach to encourage the bowlers and is ready to throw them under the bus just so he can protect his precious batsmen?

Blame the bowlers all you want but there is a reason why our bowlng sucks now. They haven't gotten any respect in the team since this guy took over.

Even if you look at the batting side of things Tamim is aggressive which goes against everything Siddons stands for. The batting has improved in terms of the ability to dead block a ball into the ground but not so much in terms of strokeplay. All of Shakib's meaningful innings' (including tests) has been aggressive risky. What happened to Chokka Naeem? Why is his big hitting ability curbed to defense?

Riyad was a prospect and he was wasted at the tail and finally pushed up the order after losing his form.

Imrul and Junaed have both shown T20 skills (Junaed vs. PAK and Imrul in the domestics) but under Siddons they have been a waste in that format.

I do not believe he is best we could get for what we're paying for Siddons and taking into account the figuartive price we're paying, he is definitely worth it.

The bowlers also have not had much support on the field with negative field settings and negative approach.

Top post bro, i like how you have put it and i agree

alibangali
June 23, 2010, 04:29 PM
The thing is Whatmore did win games..I'll admit that I'm not a big Whatmore fan but when he came in to the team let's face it we just sucked..when he came in 2003, we did not win a game, not even against Canada, then in 2004 we beat Zimbabwe, India, and Hong Kong..then 2005 we started distancing ourselves from Zimbabwe by beating them in a test match and also winning the ODI series..then we beat Australia in that famous win..2006 we beat Sri Lanka 1st time and in Zimbabwe we lost that series but once they came back we annihilated them and Scotland..then in 2007 we beat Zimbabwe at their home..and then the famous World Cup wins against India and South Africa..of course they were once in a blue moon wins but before he came we could not even beat Zimbabwe and Kenya but then we started to distance ourselves..he also won against test teams which is a huge deal, remember also we had very inconsistent players that time and no people those were not fluke wins, those were wins that we deserved..we went from a team with no confidence in winning games to all of a sudden showing glimpses of fight..

Now let's see Siddons..he got some raw but talented players and to his credit he has made them good batsmen, for example, Tamim, Shakib, Mahmud, and Mushy all got much better under his guidance..but when you look at the wins he just beat Zimbabwe home and away and WI 2nd string team, then the NZ and SL wins..he's been here for 3 years now and I just don't see us moving up..we're just doing the same thing since the Whatmore era but not going to the next step, competing with test teams and beating teams..I know this step is harder but I don't see us closing the gap..in tests I agree our batting has gotten better and we have improved in that department although I would like to see more draws..I feel ODIs we just have not improved overall, I don't think we've gone downhill, just not improving..

That's what my opinion is, the main thing is Whatmore has brought us wins while Siddons has not and it doesn't sound fair but in the end that's how we have 2 judge coaches..

Honestly to call those wins flukes is showing no respect at all to our cricket history and ex players.

I also like and agree to the rest of your post.

cricket_king
June 23, 2010, 10:10 PM
alright Mr. smart guy just looking up scorecards at cricinfo doesn't mean anything. Here is what I dug up about the links you posted.

http://www.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/64837.html

for this match we didn't start out too bad. this is what we had after the 10th over.
End of over 10 (6 runs) Bangladesh 43/1 (260 runs required from 40 overs, RR: 4.30, RRR: 6.50). Notice the RR 4.30. and RRR is 6.50. and than this happened.
This is where we were after 15th over.
End of over 15 (2 runs) Bangladesh 57/1 (246 runs required from 35 overs, RR: 3.80, RRR: 7.02) Notice the RR 3.80. RR 7.02.
This is where we were after 20th over.
End of over 20 (7 runs) Bangladesh 80/1 (223 runs required from 30 overs, RR: 4.00, RRR: 7.43)Notice the RR and RRR.
After the 25th over.
End of over 25 (8 runs) Bangladesh 105/2 (198 runs required from 25 overs, RR: 4.20, RRR: 7.92) Norice RR and RRR.
After 30th over.
End of over 30 (4 runs) Bangladesh 123/2 (180 runs required from 20 overs, RR: 4.10, RRR: 9.00). Notice RR and RRR.
I'll just skip to the 40th over now.
End of over 40 (6 runs) Bangladesh 175/2 (128 runs required from 60 balls, RR: 4.37, RRR: 12.80)

So now please explain how exactly did we go for it. or to be specific when exactly did we go for it?

http://www.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/211579.html

This is the match where Ashraful hit that 54 ball 94. What's so special about this match except that 94 from Ashraful. Did you even bothered to look at JO's strike rate for that match. Here i'll save you a trip to cricinfo. His strike rate for that match was 55.66.That must have been one hell of chase right? specially since our RR at the end of the 10th over was 3.30. and RRR was 8.97. When Ashraful got out this is where we were.
End of over 26 (10 runs) Bangladesh 155/3 (237 runs required from 24 overs, RR: 5.96, RRR: 9.87).
and about 9 overs later this is where we were.
End of over 35 (9 runs) Bangladesh 195/5 (197 runs required from 15 overs, RR: 5.57, RRR: 13.13)

http://www.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/64917.html
For this match I am not going to bother posting the RR and RRR since its a lot similar to the first one. But just to give you an idea here is where we were half way through the innings.
End of over 25 (5 runs) Bangladesh 113/4 (236 runs required from 25 overs, RR: 4.52, RRR: 9.44) Notice RR and RRR.

I couldn't find anything on the other match because there is no commentary available. so i'm eagerly looking forward to find out about these chases from you.

LOL. This is one epic ownage. :up:

bujhee kom
June 23, 2010, 10:15 PM
It's like an epic long drama movie - Like Forrest Gumpu! I thought it would never end!

shakibrulz
June 23, 2010, 10:46 PM
alright Mr. smart guy just looking up scorecards at cricinfo doesn't mean anything. Here is what I dug up about the links you posted.

http://www.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/64837.html

for this match we didn't start out too bad. this is what we had after the 10th over.
End of over 10 (6 runs) Bangladesh 43/1 (260 runs required from 40 overs, RR: 4.30, RRR: 6.50). Notice the RR 4.30. and RRR is 6.50. and than this happened.
This is where we were after 15th over.
End of over 15 (2 runs) Bangladesh 57/1 (246 runs required from 35 overs, RR: 3.80, RRR: 7.02) Notice the RR 3.80. RR 7.02.
This is where we were after 20th over.
End of over 20 (7 runs) Bangladesh 80/1 (223 runs required from 30 overs, RR: 4.00, RRR: 7.43)Notice the RR and RRR.
After the 25th over.
End of over 25 (8 runs) Bangladesh 105/2 (198 runs required from 25 overs, RR: 4.20, RRR: 7.92) Norice RR and RRR.
After 30th over.
End of over 30 (4 runs) Bangladesh 123/2 (180 runs required from 20 overs, RR: 4.10, RRR: 9.00). Notice RR and RRR.
I'll just skip to the 40th over now.
End of over 40 (6 runs) Bangladesh 175/2 (128 runs required from 60 balls, RR: 4.37, RRR: 12.80)

So now please explain how exactly did we go for it. or to be specific when exactly did we go for it?

http://www.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/211579.html

This is the match where Ashraful hit that 54 ball 94. What's so special about this match except that 94 from Ashraful. Did you even bothered to look at JO's strike rate for that match. Here i'll save you a trip to cricinfo. His strike rate for that match was 55.66.That must have been one hell of chase right? specially since our RR at the end of the 10th over was 3.30. and RRR was 8.97. When Ashraful got out this is where we were.
End of over 26 (10 runs) Bangladesh 155/3 (237 runs required from 24 overs, RR: 5.96, RRR: 9.87).
and about 9 overs later this is where we were.
End of over 35 (9 runs) Bangladesh 195/5 (197 runs required from 15 overs, RR: 5.57, RRR: 13.13)

http://www.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/64917.html
For this match I am not going to bother posting the RR and RRR since its a lot similar to the first one. But just to give you an idea here is where we were half way through the innings.
End of over 25 (5 runs) Bangladesh 113/4 (236 runs required from 25 overs, RR: 4.52, RRR: 9.44) Notice RR and RRR.

I couldn't find anything on the other match because there is no commentary available. so i'm eagerly looking forward to find out about these chases from you.


http://thereality.nl/images/upload/d23a79803f7e713fe52f74c57ecfa2e5.png

Dilscoop
June 24, 2010, 02:11 AM
@ bangladesh_sy: Can you tell me if people were this upset about those matches that I posted? No they weren't. Because, the batmen did not go into shell. They were entertaining. They did play there shots, there weren't just in there to bat out 50 overs. That wasn't not the approach. It wasn't as embarrassing. They did not make us look like joke. No body asked us to say sorry to the rest of the cricket world. NO WAS ANNOYED, ANGRY, DISHEARTEN BY THE APPROACH. I doubt people from Sri Lanka, India, Pakistan, WI came and complain like this about it. There weren't any Imrul Kayes who took 24 balls to get of the strike. There were Riyad who blocked out the last over. Cricinfo did not right horrible articles on those matches. I dont think you even watched those matches. I did. All of them. With a lot of people, (except the one vs Eng, but you dont have to watch that to know it wasnt a bad effort). And we enjoyed the 'fight'. If you watched those games, you would know. Those are meaningless RR stats. Those were bad loses, but no 1 complained about them like they are now...

cricket_king
June 24, 2010, 02:57 AM
@ bangladesh_sy: Can you tell me if people were this upset about those matches that I posted? No they weren't. Because, the batmen did not go into shell. They were entertaining. They did play there shots, there weren't just in there to bat out 50 overs. That wasn't not the approach. It wasn't as embarrassing. They did not make us look like joke. No body asked us to say sorry to the rest of the cricket world. NO WAS ANNOYED, ANGRY, DISHEARTEN BY THE APPROACH. I doubt people from Sri Lanka, India, Pakistan, WI came and complain like this about it. There weren't any Imrul Kayes who took 24 balls to get of the strike. There were Riyad who blocked out the last over. Cricinfo did not right horrible articles on those matches. I dont think you even watched those matches. I did. All of them. With a lot of people, (except the one vs Eng, but you dont have to watch that to know it wasnt a bad effort). And we enjoyed the 'fight'. If you watched those games, you would know. Those are meaningless RR stats. Those were bad loses, but no 1 complained about them like they are now...

Dude, people are angry at us now because we're a much more capable team. We actually have players who can win us games, yet we didn't try. The matches you brought up had no one barring Ashraful. Just putting up a fight was enough to get the critics to applaud us. If we had performed this way with the players we had 5 or 10 years ago, critics would actually praise us for lasting 50 overs and going at almost 5 an over. He just showed you the facts - the partnerships show that they were never on track to even come close in those matches. You just avoided the stats he brought up and declared them "meaningless", when you're the one who brought up those particular matches. If you want the truth, you need to look at all the facts.

mishu
June 24, 2010, 03:10 AM
alright Mr. smart guy just looking up scorecards at cricinfo doesn't mean anything. Here is what I dug up about the links you posted.

http://www.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/64837.html

for this match we didn't start out too bad. this is what we had after the 10th over.
End of over 10 (6 runs) Bangladesh 43/1 (260 runs required from 40 overs, RR: 4.30, RRR: 6.50). Notice the RR 4.30. and RRR is 6.50. and than this happened.
This is where we were after 15th over.
End of over 15 (2 runs) Bangladesh 57/1 (246 runs required from 35 overs, RR: 3.80, RRR: 7.02) Notice the RR 3.80. RR 7.02.
This is where we were after 20th over.
End of over 20 (7 runs) Bangladesh 80/1 (223 runs required from 30 overs, RR: 4.00, RRR: 7.43)Notice the RR and RRR.
After the 25th over.
End of over 25 (8 runs) Bangladesh 105/2 (198 runs required from 25 overs, RR: 4.20, RRR: 7.92) Norice RR and RRR.
After 30th over.
End of over 30 (4 runs) Bangladesh 123/2 (180 runs required from 20 overs, RR: 4.10, RRR: 9.00). Notice RR and RRR.
I'll just skip to the 40th over now.
End of over 40 (6 runs) Bangladesh 175/2 (128 runs required from 60 balls, RR: 4.37, RRR: 12.80)

So now please explain how exactly did we go for it. or to be specific when exactly did we go for it?

http://www.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/211579.html

This is the match where Ashraful hit that 54 ball 94. What's so special about this match except that 94 from Ashraful. Did you even bothered to look at JO's strike rate for that match. Here i'll save you a trip to cricinfo. His strike rate for that match was 55.66.That must have been one hell of chase right? specially since our RR at the end of the 10th over was 3.30. and RRR was 8.97. When Ashraful got out this is where we were.
End of over 26 (10 runs) Bangladesh 155/3 (237 runs required from 24 overs, RR: 5.96, RRR: 9.87).
and about 9 overs later this is where we were.
End of over 35 (9 runs) Bangladesh 195/5 (197 runs required from 15 overs, RR: 5.57, RRR: 13.13)

http://www.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/64917.html
For this match I am not going to bother posting the RR and RRR since its a lot similar to the first one. But just to give you an idea here is where we were half way through the innings.
End of over 25 (5 runs) Bangladesh 113/4 (236 runs required from 25 overs, RR: 4.52, RRR: 9.44) Notice RR and RRR.

I couldn't find anything on the other match because there is no commentary available. so i'm eagerly looking forward to find out about these chases from you.

:goal::goal:

Guys we have Mashrafee back from injury out of form.
Rasel out of form
Razzak BIg time out of form
Rubel Out of form
shafiul takes wicket but high economy rate
You can not win game with one bowler : shakib

you thing some cheerleading from Dav whatmor, who cant even find a job now, can win uus games??

Murad
June 24, 2010, 03:13 AM
Shob gulo team improve kortese ar amra jei lau shei kodu e roye gelam.

5 bochor aageo amra shomman jonok porajoy er jonne kheltam ar ekhono o. Even though ekhon ar onek valo valo players ache but still amra harar jonnei kheli. :sigh:

BANFAN
June 24, 2010, 03:14 AM
we should have drawn at least three or four tests this year. but our batsman's stupidity lack of intents let not draw any of them.

They were probably trying to draw this ODI ;)

And they were trying to win those tests being aggressive, so we missed the chance of draw ;)

nsd3
June 24, 2010, 03:26 AM
Jamioe Siddons from the very beginning didn't believe in our abilities, he termed our wins as flukes and now he is installing the defeatist attitude among the boyd who played fearlessly during their U-19 level and was one of the best team in the world.

I'm unhappy about Bangladesh team's recent performance. I also mentioned in another thread that if one believes he would be a scholar then he may be a scholar in course of time. The point is it's not gonna happen overnight. There needs to be a balance between a vision and the realistic expectation of the timing for that vision to come true.

If we have players like Ponting, Tendulkar, Vettori, McGrath we could do it today. Reality is we don't have them. That's why we need to produce players like today's Tamim in more numbers. I guess it wasn't defeatist attitude - winning definitely is in the mind but to make it happen we need right people in the team (let's not talk about the Board now). The process of making it was depending on Academy, right pitches, domestic cricket standard etc. It's all about winning in the long run. If he said BD's win was a fluke - I guess he meant we didn't repeat our Cardiff victory against a strong side for a long long time.

Re: U-19, well they didn't ever reach the Semi Final in WC U-19. during the Matches at home they repeatedly beat oppsitions but they failed every time on the real test. Frustrating for a team who's termed as one of the best U-19 team in the world.

I'm not sure, perhaps it's the balance that we are all missing sometime getting over hyped seeing Ashraful blasting bowlers and how U-19 fearlessly batting and bashing opponents and then.....now where is Ashraful and yes where is U-19 (after NZ frustration in WC!).

M.H.Rubel
June 24, 2010, 07:18 AM
The thing is Whatmore did win games..I'll admit that I'm not a big Whatmore fan but when he came in to the team let's face it we just sucked..when he came in 2003, we did not win a game, not even against Canada, then in 2004 we beat Zimbabwe, India, and Hong Kong..then 2005 we started distancing ourselves from Zimbabwe by beating them in a test match and also winning the ODI series..then we beat Australia in that famous win..2006 we beat Sri Lanka 1st time and in Zimbabwe we lost that series but once they came back we annihilated them and Scotland..then in 2007 we beat Zimbabwe at their home..and then the famous World Cup wins against India and South Africa..of course they were once in a blue moon wins but before he came we could not even beat Zimbabwe and Kenya but then we started to distance ourselves..he also won against test teams which is a huge deal, remember also we had very inconsistent players that time and no people those were not fluke wins, those were wins that we deserved..we went from a team with no confidence in winning games to all of a sudden showing glimpses of fight..

Now let's see Siddons..he got some raw but talented players and to his credit he has made them good batsmen, for example, Tamim, Shakib, Mahmud, and Mushy all got much better under his guidance..but when you look at the wins he just beat Zimbabwe home and away and WI 2nd string team, then the NZ and SL wins..he's been here for 3 years now and I just don't see us moving up..we're just doing the same thing since the Whatmore era but not going to the next step, competing with test teams and beating teams..I know this step is harder but I don't see us closing the gap..in tests I agree our batting has gotten better and we have improved in that department although I would like to see more draws..I feel ODIs we just have not improved overall, I don't think we've gone downhill, just not improving..

That's what my opinion is, the main thing is Whatmore has brought us wins while Siddons has not and it doesn't sound fair but in the end that's how we have 2 judge coaches..

Tiger it was a nice post.You r correct in Siddons era we are doing better in tests but not in ODI.Probably DW was a good ODI coach as he was a good strategy makes.But in tests JS era is better.Yes we are not in the downhill but our main problem is under JS our team is not stepping in the next grade.
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beshideshi
June 24, 2010, 07:58 AM
Just to clarify a point offstump bro made, you need bowlers who can take wickets to not only win a test but draw t a test as well. If you have a look at our recent test matches, our batsmen have played 200~ overs, with bad light/natural factors eating up few over, our batsmen have played half the game.
And if our bowlers aren't capable to hold the run rate down or take some wickets, the opponents will score more than what we scored in the same number of overs. Resulting in a win for the opponent.
If we bowl well, batting for 200 overs should help us draw games.

Ajfar
June 24, 2010, 07:58 AM
@ bangladesh_sy: Can you tell me if people were this upset about those matches that I posted? No they weren't. Because, the batmen did not go into shell. They were entertaining. They did play there shots, there weren't just in there to bat out 50 overs. That wasn't not the approach. It wasn't as embarrassing. They did not make us look like joke. No body asked us to say sorry to the rest of the cricket world. NO WAS ANNOYED, ANGRY, DISHEARTEN BY THE APPROACH. I doubt people from Sri Lanka, India, Pakistan, WI came and complain like this about it. There weren't any Imrul Kayes who took 24 balls to get of the strike. There were Riyad who blocked out the last over. Cricinfo did not right horrible articles on those matches. I dont think you even watched those matches. I did. All of them. With a lot of people, (except the one vs Eng, but you dont have to watch that to know it wasnt a bad effort). And we enjoyed the 'fight'. If you watched those games, you would know. Those are meaningless RR stats. Those were bad loses, but no 1 complained about them like they are now...

Man you crack me up. Did you even read what I posted? I doubt you actually watched those matches. Do you know how I know? Because you said we had no Imrul kayes back than?Does the name Javed Omar ring a bell? May be I shouldnt have saved you a trip to cricinfo . So click on the links you posted and look up how much Javed Omar scored and what was his strike rate.
Dont even start on our batsman werent in there shell. Look up Rajin Saleh on one one of the link and
see how many balls it it took him to get to that 80 something run. You call
that playing out of your shell?
C_K covered the rest.
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shakibrulz
June 24, 2010, 09:47 AM
Man you crack me up. Did you even read what I posted? I doubt you actually watched those matches. Do you know how I know? Because you said we had no Imrul kayes back than?Does the name Javed Omar ring a bell? May be I shouldnt have saved you a trip to cricinfo . So click on the links you posted and look up how much Javed Omar scored and what was his strike rate.
Dont even start on our batsman werent in there shell. Look up Rajin Saleh on one one of the link and
see how many balls it it took him to get to that 80 something run. You call
that playing out of your shell?
C_K covered the rest.
<br />Posted via BC Mobile Edition (iPhone)

Nah dude, those 100 ball 56's of Javed omar were way more entertaining..Now don't ask me how.. it's a fool that looks for logic in the chambers of the human heart.. :-D

al Furqaan
June 24, 2010, 02:29 PM
looking back now a few days after, once passions have cooled a bit, i would have really liked if we scored 300, which we could have easily done.

in hindsight though, going for broke and getting bundled for 120 in 18 overs would prove what? lets look at it rationally, point by point.

245-5 chasing 386

the good: we don't get bundled out and lose by 200+ runs like rank minnows, scored 245 without trying, which shows we could have at least scored 300, possibly more on a good day.

the bad: gave up before the game even started.

120 all out in 15 overs


the good: fearless batting

the bad: totaly ineptitude, even more massive margin of defeat, can't bowl, can't field, and now can't bat.

does anyone honestly think trying to win was going to be better or even equal to the "shameless" batting display? would cricinfo and its eendian led crew shout more quietly? i think not.

ideally we should have tried to chase and scored around 330 or more. then we could leave the field with heads held high. but if thats not going to happen i'd rather have scored 245 without trying, than scored 245 in 40 overs all out.

shakibrulz
June 24, 2010, 02:38 PM
looking back now a few days after, once passions have cooled a bit, i would have really liked if we scored 300, which we could have easily done.

in hindsight though, going for broke and getting bundled for 120 in 18 overs would prove what? lets look at it rationally, point by point.

245-5 chasing 386

the good: we don't get bundled out and lose by 200+ runs like rank minnows, scored 245 without trying, which shows we could have at least scored 300, possibly more on a good day.

the bad: gave up before the game even started.

120 all out in 15 overs


the good: fearless batting

the bad: totaly ineptitude, even more massive margin of defeat, can't bowl, can't field, and now can't bat.

does anyone honestly think trying to win was going to be better or even equal to the "shameless" batting display? would cricinfo and its eendian led crew shout more quietly? i think not.

ideally we should have tried to chase and scored around 330 or more. then we could leave the field with heads held high. but if thats not going to happen i'd rather have scored 245 without trying, than scored 245 in 40 overs all out.

Actually, these whiners conveniently forget the fact that even lasting 50 overs under the lights is a challenge in Dambullah. Especially 10-30 overs of the innings. See how lanka performed under lights chasing 260+. Scoring runs under lights are extremely difficult. Don't buy my words, see what Sanga and Malinga had to say about chasing under the lights.

alibangali
June 24, 2010, 04:56 PM
Actually, these whiners conveniently forget the fact that even lasting 50 overs under the lights is a challenge in Dambullah. Especially 10-30 overs of the innings. See how lanka performed under lights chasing 260+. Scoring runs under lights are extremely difficult. Don't buy my words, see what Sanga and Malinga had to say about chasing under the lights.

No we did not forget nor did we expect the team to get close to the total but giving up completely after losing 1 wicket and the loser mentality is what enraged us.

There is no point in playing if we are not willing to compete. Had we been 150/5 after 25 overs then playing to end the 50 overs would not have been as bad.

What made it worse was the justification for this by the coach basically saying we are so imcompetent that after Tamims wicket it was impossible for the others to even try .

shakibrulz
June 24, 2010, 10:58 PM
No we did not forget nor did we expect the team to get close to the total but giving up completely after losing 1 wicket and the loser mentality is what enraged us.

There is no point in playing if we are not willing to compete. Had we been 150/5 after 25 overs then playing to end the 50 overs would not have been as bad.

What made it worse was the justification for this by the coach basically saying we are so imcompetent that after Tamims wicket it was impossible for the others to even try .

Well, we all know that's true, don't we? If you watched yesterday's match, players like Jayawardane and Sanga even struggled to get bat on ball. And you expect this inexperienced lineup to chase 380 under those condition? Seriously? And afterall it was a dead rubber, and all they needed was get some batting practice before going to England.

And they'd never have been 150/5, more like 80/6. Sounds good enough?

shakibrulz
June 24, 2010, 11:05 PM
The only thing they did was, reach to a safe position and then start slogging. May not be the greatest thing to do, but this reaction is waaaaaaay over the top as if this was the most disgraceful moment in the history of cricket, or an ODI killer. Just be fair and do a fair analysis yourself. There's nothing to rant much on a dead rubber which went out of hands.

Tigers_eye
June 24, 2010, 11:32 PM
... It serves us no purpose in granting Pakistan a quick victory, though victory was all but certain.
Sorry, late to the party. Been busy lately.

Anywho, had we bundled out in 35/40 overs trying to chase 385, guess what would have happened!!!

Headline would have said, BD not good for any form of cricket. Can't survive 40 overs in 50 over matches. Since they can't say that now the torture line comes in.

Selectors and Ash fans would continue to sing the tune, there is no replacement for Ashraful.
+++
Dear Miraz,
People say many things. With time, some can even change opinions. Why are you holding on to what Siddons said 3 years back? Do you want to hold accountable for your incorrect statements from three years back? Let it go Bro.

Turn the page and move on. If you think Siddons is the problem of BD cricket then do something about it. Talk to him directly since you have the connections. Write to him and surely your letter will reach to him. Express your concerns in a fruitful way. Blowing fire here wouldn't do you any good.

alibangali
June 25, 2010, 04:29 AM
Well, we all know that's true, don't we? If you watched yesterday's match, players like Jayawardane and Sanga even struggled to get bat on ball. And you expect this inexperienced lineup to chase 380 under those condition? Seriously? And afterall it was a dead rubber, and all they needed was get some batting practice before going to England.

And they'd never have been 150/5, more like 80/6. Sounds good enough?

I guess you did not really read my comments carefully.

shakibrulz
June 25, 2010, 04:39 AM
I guess you did not really read my comments carefully.

Well, I did. You were saying that they didn't 'attempt' to chase down the total 385. So when such a mammoth task is impossible, when they can't even properly sight the older ball, you say they should've slogged and attempted to win? I can guarantee you don't have the slightest Idea how difficult chasing in Dambullah is. And that's evident from your posts when you say they' should've got something around 150/5 in 25 overs. It's as good as lost, and, I'd take 240/5 than 130 all out in 20 overs anyday, thank you. Atleast get some batting practice before a tough tour ahead.

nahaz
June 25, 2010, 09:39 AM
Well, I did. You were saying that they didn't 'attempt' to chase down the total 385. So when such a mammoth task is impossible, when they can't even properly sight the older ball, you say they should've slogged and attempted to win? I can guarantee you don't have the slightest Idea how difficult chasing in Dambullah is. And that's evident from your posts when you say they' should've got something around 150/5 in 25 overs. It's as good as lost, and, I'd take 240/5 than 130 all out in 20 overs anyday, thank you. Atleast get some batting practice before a tough tour ahead.

You don't get it. The approach made it look as good as 100 all out...
We were never going to win...but we should have at least pretended like we're trying.we just basically had the players sunbathing for 90 overs of the match. Lankans would think twice before hosting us again every year...We should have tried to give the match some meaning. All we had here was pure match practice...one team knew from the 11th over that they were winning..and the other accepted they were losing. Pathetic...

alibangali
June 25, 2010, 09:56 AM
Well, I did. You were saying that they didn't 'attempt' to chase down the total 385. So when such a mammoth task is impossible, when they can't even properly sight the older ball, you say they should've slogged and attempted to win? I can guarantee you don't have the slightest Idea how difficult chasing in Dambullah is. And that's evident from your posts when you say they' should've got something around 150/5 in 25 overs. It's as good as lost, and, I'd take 240/5 than 130 all out in 20 overs anyday, thank you. Atleast get some batting practice before a tough tour ahead.

this is the difference between you and me. I want my team to win and play positively and hate this so called honorable defeat approach. There is no honour in giving up when chances are there to go for win even if that chance is next to zero. If my team gives up before trying then achieving the win is impossible. If my players play for themselves then they will be selfish and short sighted. If my coach is more concerned about few individuals then the team will suffer.

Can you not see its not just about that game, the issue is much bigger and dangerous.