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Miraz
July 4, 2010, 08:14 AM
There is no excuse. If we lose against the associates in this leg of our tour, Jamie Siddons must get the chop. Forget about the world cup. No coach can do worse than what he is doing, it is not possible to do worse even without a coach.

If we lose against the associates this time, it clearly shows he lacks direction and ability to coach an international team.

Siddons must go, we are not ready to accept any more meek surrender.

There has to be changes in cricket struture no doubt, but blaming cricket structure for failure against the associates will be too much. I hope the pro-Siddons camp will at least accept this.

Tiger444
July 4, 2010, 08:49 AM
Miraz bhai..I know your really frustrated but since you've written some pieces on cricinfo then why can't you write up something to show to the public? If you get something written up saying why Siddons has been a poor coach and you have said a lot of reasons, I think that can open up the public view of Siddons..I really have not seen any media pressure on Siddons and if you write something, I think that could really do something..if people are so desperate to get rid of Siddons then why doesn't some people hold up signs saying "Fire Siddons"? Your in England and if some of the BCites here in England hold up signs then that could really do something..hey it's better then nothing

deshprem
July 4, 2010, 08:57 AM
^^ what he said. n plus..we wont lose.

M.H.Rubel
July 4, 2010, 09:12 AM
Miraz Vai i agree with you if we lose againt associates no excuse just kick Siddons from his duty.He have just ruined the winning mentality of our players.
<br />Posted via BC Mobile Edition

bdtiger
July 4, 2010, 10:18 AM
who should be the next coach? I propose Ashraful.

al-Sagar
July 4, 2010, 10:36 AM
There is no excuse. If we lose against the associates in this leg of our tour, Jamie Siddons must get the chop. Forget about the world cup. No coach can do worse than what he is doing, it is not possible to do worse even without a coach.

If we lose against the associates this time, it clearly shows he lacks direction and ability to coach an international team.

Siddons must go, we are not ready to accept any more meek surrender.

There has to be changes in cricket struture no doubt, but blaming cricket structure for failure against the associates will be too much. I hope the pro-Siddons camp will at least accept this.

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i think if we lose against associates... its time to press the REFRESH button. we need change in management. i think there is enough time before the world cup for new coach to steady our ship

Rifat
July 4, 2010, 01:24 PM
I am 100% with Miraz bhai on this one, We Should not even tolerate a single loss at any cost.

Promise was there, but where are the results?:timeout:

Dilscoop
July 4, 2010, 03:08 PM
Miraz bhai..I know your really frustrated but since you've written some pieces on cricinfo then why can't you write up something to show to the public? If you get something written up saying why Siddons has been a poor coach and you have said a lot of reasons, I think that can open up the public view of Siddons..I really have not seen any media pressure on Siddons and if you write something, I think that could really do something..if people are so desperate to get rid of Siddons then why doesn't some people hold up signs saying "Fire Siddons"? Your in England and if some of the BCites here in England hold up signs then that could really do something..hey it's better then nothing
You are a cricinfo writer? Then why aren't you writing these stuff in there!! Please please PLEASEEEEEE I beg you, write a good article and open up some public eyes. Critic around the world just blaming our players! They don't know anything about the man behind this mess. He has been getting away from this by pointing figures at everyone else. So please please please Mr Miraz write something to CI!

al Furqaan
July 4, 2010, 04:20 PM
suppose we lose 0-3 to england, but 2 of the matches are close. close enough to where all and sundry of the UK media is surprised and praising BD.

then we happen to lose one match to the associates...should we fire him then?

this is a fairly likely scenario.

less likely, but quite improbable is a world cup 2007 like situation where we win against a major side but lose to minnows. so suppose we lose 1-2 to england, but then lose a match against Netherlands. should siddons go then too?

i think right now, the team is going through a "funk"...admittedly one of the worst funks we've been through relative to total team skill/talent, but a funk nonetheless. i think the BCB needs to do a better job of getting a support for Siddons' obvious weaknesses. essentially then need to make him a batting coach, and hire another bowling coach. lets see how this Italian fellow does.

rahat90
July 4, 2010, 05:41 PM
il sign to that!

Dilscoop
July 4, 2010, 05:42 PM
@ al F. What the..? YES we should! There is no exception for losing to associate teams as a TEST playing nation. No matter how good you played against Eng, or any other big team for that matter. This isn't soccer.

Purbasha T
July 4, 2010, 05:47 PM
What!! Are we playing 5 match series!!!

Miraz
July 4, 2010, 05:51 PM
@ al, at this rate we will either lose England ODIs by 8-10 wickets with 10-15 overs to spare or by 75-150 runs. Are these results close enough to save Siddons?

Purbasha T
July 4, 2010, 05:52 PM
Oh okay!! 0-3 and 2 close matches among two those...gotcha!

Roni_uk
July 4, 2010, 06:13 PM
So its ok to lose against other countries and small english counties and still keep Siddons?

nsd3
July 4, 2010, 06:52 PM
An alternative solution would make this demand strong.

zainab
July 4, 2010, 08:03 PM
Miraz bhai, do you have any clout with the BCB management? then make them see how Siddons is destroying the team. Everyone is clueless, I have never seen BD play so badly.

bujhee kom
July 4, 2010, 09:55 PM
I agree Miraz bhai, Coach Siddons would have no point of keeping a job of coaching the Bangladesh team if we were to lose to Associates team home or abroad, period. As it is everybody else's fault including the players and the BCB administrations, a big part of the failure responsibility Siddons will have to take, must, as he is the coach and it would simply show that he is failing to make this team win, period or motivate the team. We do not see the slightest of beam of light in our sight that there is anything, anyhting positive left in our cricket. I believe we are passing through the darkest moments of BD cricket history!

nsd3
July 4, 2010, 10:34 PM
No Media link attached to the team - so no idea on what's actually happening inside.

bujhee kom
July 4, 2010, 10:41 PM
WHat's happenning inside that shiny head, I want to see some hair on it, can't trust it no more!!

nobody
July 4, 2010, 11:01 PM
Why you would think we would lose to associate? Siddons or not we should be good enough to win against the associates

BANFAN
July 4, 2010, 11:41 PM
Is that how we measure sid's performance? Is he a Dood-Bhat Coach?? ;)

nsd3
July 4, 2010, 11:43 PM
Given the current results it's not impossible to lose to the Associates.

But the point is Siddons did start to show scoring 200-250 consistently via this team. But what has happened now? If someone can make it once it means he's doing it right. I just don't know what's the current scenario inside as there was no news from the media or anyone who had tips from inside.

shakibrulz
July 5, 2010, 03:26 AM
@ al F. What the..? YES we should! There is no exception for losing to associate teams as a TEST playing nation. No matter how good you played against Eng, or any other big team for that matter. This isn't soccer.

LOL Ireland nearly won a match against Aus, so you can;t underestimate the associates like that.

Though yes, I agree, should win all the matches to atleast for pride's sake.

lamisa
July 5, 2010, 04:51 AM
Miraz bhai,i agree with u partly that we should fire JS if we lose against the minnows but that shouldn't befor the WC,right after the WC should be the best time for him to depart IF the case is as what u mentioned.however,i still won't say that he is a bad coach,i would just say that our players are just not upto him

zainab
July 5, 2010, 06:17 AM
If BD can lose to a second string county side, why cant they lose to an Associate, especially Ireland, they might rack up a couple of wins against Scotland and Netherlands.
I have never seen a team as inconsistent as BD. Batsmen dont value their wickets, lose concentration faster than a 6 yr old, bowlers bowl with no threat, and the whole team has a dont care attitude.

Baundule
July 5, 2010, 07:36 AM
There is no 'if'; Siddons has already done enough damage. We need to get rid of him, even if we whitewash England.

Raynman
July 5, 2010, 07:51 AM
There is no 'if'; Siddons has already done enough damage. We need to get rid of him, even if we whitewash England.

agreed.

nahaz
July 5, 2010, 07:54 AM
@ Al, it doesn't matter if they lose all three games by even 1 run or 1 wicket against England, these boys have forgotten how to win against a side of respect. So if they lose against Ireland or the minnows in either game, Siddons should go regardless. The game against Ireland in Ireland/Britain won't be easy with the Irish playing to familiar conditions and bowling well. We should win both matches regardless, as our players have always been of higher quality from 2006...a loss would only highlight the failure of Siddons.

The fact that we're about to score 300 in 2nd game doens't matter too much, because our problem is inconsistency..one good game will not change it. By same logic also, winning a game against the British and getting thrashed in the other two and/or losing to the Irish isn't good either, but I'm sur ethe general public/fans will overlook that. With the same logic, one bad loss isn't the end of the world, but my argument is that losing is the only constant siddons' team possesses right now, so how is he doing his job right? He's also constantly been puttingdown his players, esp pacers, in order to justify the crap performance. I have never heard of another coach doing that. Even Mohsin Kamal did not do that!!!

max410
July 6, 2010, 04:36 AM
There is no excuse. If we lose against the associates in this leg of our tour, Jamie Siddons must get the chop. Forget about the world cup. No coach can do worse than what he is doing, it is not possible to do worse even without a coach.

If we lose against the associates this time, it clearly shows he lacks direction and ability to coach an international team.

Siddons must go, we are not ready to accept any more meek surrender.

There has to be changes in cricket struture no doubt, but blaming cricket structure for failure against the associates will be too much. I hope the pro-Siddons camp will at least accept this.

hey stop blaming the coach its the players who are performing upto the marks ,
and we wont loose against associates so easily so be realistic.

WarWolf
July 6, 2010, 04:57 AM
hey stop blaming the coach its the players who are performing upto the marks ,
and we wont loose against associates so easily so be realistic.
Then what's the use of having a coach? Why do we pay him so much money each month? Better...fire him and don't hire anyone in future.

auntu
July 6, 2010, 05:34 AM
This is our pathetic system that when a player is playing for the national side still needs to learn the basics. National team should be the place only for fine tuning the players techniques. But our present situation is not like that

Now a days a player has plenty of opportunity to learn while playing age groups at U13, U15, U17, U19. Even after that there is academy and A team.

What is the academy coaching stuffs are doing? What is BCB's planning regarding the academy and A side?

Antora
July 6, 2010, 09:06 PM
I am sick of this Siddons guy. I don't even think he should be kept if we lose to teams like Sussex, yes I understand they could be a good team, but seriously!

sir john
July 6, 2010, 09:46 PM
Bangladesh need a allrounder as a coach.
<br />Posted via BC Mobile Edition (Opera Mobile)

yaseer
July 6, 2010, 10:52 PM
Miraz bhai, the argument you presented shows some desperation. Forget about Siddons, we used to beat associates in 80's and 90's. Now, after that many years of international cricket, if we struggle against them, then I blame the whole cricket fraternity - BCB, Players, Team Management, whoever involved. If we blame coach for losing to associates, then we should stop playing with G8.

Now on Siddons, in one sentence, He is very poor in his performance as head coach.
Problem is that he is missing the broader picture. His style gives me a feel that he is coaching a academy team not a national team. Time for BCB to have their thinking caps on and decide about Siddons and prepare for the WC, otherwise disaster like 2003 is surely waiting.

Why BCB as well as media is not putting enough pressure on Siddons? Does BCB themselves think that most of these players are actually good enough to play for academy teams and BCB has no choice but to keep pushing them in national team? Hence, Siddons is doing the best he could do with these players? I do not know. I am surprised why BCB is not pointing fingers to Siddons.

Instead of coach, there are some other reasons for our poor show.
Another reason of our poor performance is the lack of quality in the team. I do not think players like Nayeem, Riyad, Imrul and even Mushfiq is good enough to win us a match. We failed to develop players like SN, Aftab, Kapali and they are now rightly out of the team. We failed to produce another Rafique and Mashrafee.

We also lack presence of senior players in the team or as a leader. In cricket, captain always has a big role to play off the field. Its is always a combination of Captain-Coach. Do Andy Flower or Gary Kirsten runs their team alone? No, Strauss and Dhoni always has a big contribution if not equal. For us, it was Habibul-Whatmore combination before. Now, we have no one like Habibul, Pailot or Shujon, who can take part in decision making, argue with coach on strategies. Siddons is having a free ride here.

All these are the result of lack of long term planning in the past ten years.

chotpoti
July 6, 2010, 11:26 PM
could not agree more !!

BANFAN
July 7, 2010, 06:27 AM
There is no 'if'; Siddons has already done enough damage. We need to get rid of him, even if we whitewash England.

Loud and clear.

BANFAN
July 7, 2010, 06:38 AM
This is our pathetic system that when a player is playing for the national side still needs to learn the basics. National team should be the place only for fine tuning the players techniques. But our present situation is not like that

Now a days a player has plenty of opportunity to learn while playing age groups at U13, U15, U17, U19. Even after that there is academy and A team.

What is the academy coaching stuffs are doing? What is BCB's planning regarding the academy and A side?

I don't think that's true. We have started teaching the basics of cricket only in 2000, after getting the test status. If someone Like Aminul had the basics, it is due to his personal efforts. If you look at all the other players of the ICC trophy team, who took us to the test arena, all had vissible deficiency of basics.

The progress we made since then in this area, is remarkable. Now a days you can see these young kids, they are much better, vissibly better. Off course you cannot rectify such defficiency 100% in such a short time. Minor adjustments will be needed at the national level. if some one is saying that they know nothing, that's a lie. Even in the finest cricketing cultures, players have problems of techniques at the national levels and that's why they have coaches to work on them.

It's not frustrating in our case. Due to failure of some people responsible to correct the players, they try to cover their failures by such reasons. Even a new player in his debut don't look technically that much defficient, Like Jahurul. But off course for justified reasons, our players will have more problems than a player coming out of Ausie system. That's a known fact and understandable to all, that cannot be a vallid complain.

yaseer
July 7, 2010, 07:10 AM
Other than cricketing techniques, there are some basics required related more to mental side like -
Learning from mistakes and not to repeat the same mistake, Read the match situation and act accordingly, be tough to fight out the difficult times, Hate to loose and more. Our players lack these basic mental approaches as well. When a player throws his wicket away, I blame the player. Our system is not producing enough players who are mentally tough.

al Furqaan
July 8, 2010, 01:45 PM
i may be joining the anti-siddons crew soon...

pathetic PP and slog over batting again. our final RR was actually lower than than what it was at several points in the match. its one thing if we lost 4-5 quick wickets at the top, but with wickets in hand this is criminal.

maybe keep siddons around as a batting advisor, but we might need to be looking for a new coach very very soon.

Raynman
July 8, 2010, 02:50 PM
i may be joining the anti-siddons crew soon...

pathetic PP and slog over batting again. our final RR was actually lower than than what it was at several points in the match. its one thing if we lost 4-5 quick wickets at the top, but with wickets in hand this is criminal.

maybe keep siddons around as a batting advisor, but we might need to be looking for a new coach very very soon.

my issue with Siddons from the get go has been his ultra-defensive mindset and making strategy of 'least amount of embarassment' based on his pre-conception that we are not capbale of winning. His lack of understanding of T20 and the modern way the game is played has stunted our potential. The only reason we are hanging around where we are today is the self inflicted demise of ZIM and WI. Even Pakistan's self implosion resulted in a team head and shoulder's above us.

There is never any updates to the batting order based on match situation and the power play is never taken in the fear of losing wickets. The PP is supposed to be the advantage tool for the batting side.

Hopefully the powers that be will come around to realizing the negative impact JS is having on our team.

Dilscoop
July 8, 2010, 04:59 PM
^^ Couldn't agree more with your 1st line! That's pretty much why I dislike JS. I do not care how good or bad he has done to our batsmen. But his bs strategy from day one til today has been very shocking.

bujhee kom
July 8, 2010, 05:14 PM
my issue with Siddons from the get go has been his ultra-defensive mindset and making strategy of 'least amount of embarassment' based on his pre-conception that we are not capbale of winning. His lack of understanding of T20 and the modern way the game is played has stunted our potential. The only reason we are hanging around where we are today is the self inflicted demise of ZIM and WI. Even Pakistan's self implosion resulted in a team head and shoulder's above us.

There is never any updates to the batting order based on match situation and the power play is never taken in the fear of losing wickets. The PP is supposed to be the advantage tool for the batting side.

Hopefully the powers that be will come around to realizing the negative impact JS is having on our team.

Raynman bhai,
You are absolutely on the money! I am so sorry that in the past I misunderstood your posts and point about Siddons and I probably argued and passed my idiotic comments, I ask for your forgiveness for that. I was wrong and you were right and you explained things very clearly in this post. Please forgive me, you are a great mind and I send you my salaam and deep respect.:-*:notworthy: :big_hug:

Alchemist
July 8, 2010, 08:08 PM
Miraz bhai, the argument you presented shows some desperation. Forget about Siddons, we used to beat associates in 80's and 90's. Now, after that many years of international cricket, if we struggle against them, then I blame the whole cricket fraternity - BCB, Players, Team Management, whoever involved. If we blame coach for losing to associates, then we should stop playing with G8.

Now on Siddons, in one sentence, He is very poor in his performance as head coach.
Problem is that he is missing the broader picture. His style gives me a feel that he is coaching a academy team not a national team. Time for BCB to have their thinking caps on and decide about Siddons and prepare for the WC, otherwise disaster like 2003 is surely waiting.

Why BCB as well as media is not putting enough pressure on Siddons? Does BCB themselves think that most of these players are actually good enough to play for academy teams and BCB has no choice but to keep pushing them in national team? Hence, Siddons is doing the best he could do with these players? I do not know. I am surprised why BCB is not pointing fingers to Siddons.

Instead of coach, there are some other reasons for our poor show.
Another reason of our poor performance is the lack of quality in the team. I do not think players like Nayeem, Riyad, Imrul and even Mushfiq is good enough to win us a match. We failed to develop players like SN, Aftab, Kapali and they are now rightly out of the team. We failed to produce another Rafique and Mashrafee.

We also lack presence of senior players in the team or as a leader. In cricket, captain always has a big role to play off the field. Its is always a combination of Captain-Coach. Do Andy Flower or Gary Kirsten runs their team alone? No, Strauss and Dhoni always has a big contribution if not equal. For us, it was Habibul-Whatmore combination before. Now, we have no one like Habibul, Pailot or Shujon, who can take part in decision making, argue with coach on strategies. Siddons is having a free ride here.

All these are the result of lack of long term planning in the past ten years.

Very well said. Completely agree with you.

It’s a sad reality that as a nation we are so bad at developing talents, not only cricket but also other areas as well. Look at chess for example, we’ve got a few Grandmasters (in fact the first one in South Asia was Niaz Morshed. What happened after that?) but no world class players.

There is a huge difference between national level and international level in every discipline, let it be cricket, chess, programming contest or Math Olympiad. I like what Vladimir Kramnik (former World Chess champion) said about how to become a world champion:

“You must have good health, a strong nervous system, and you must hate losing a game. Only then you may have a chance to become world champion.”

Just replace the word ‘world champion’ with ‘world class cricketer’ and the same philosophy is applicable to cricket. I believe our current coach and BCB administration are destroying the self-believe mechanism in our cricketers and turning the under-19 world class players into adults full of self doubts.

Siddons must go.

Tigers_eye
July 10, 2010, 01:42 PM
:) this was a team victory!! individual performance of Imrul was necessary. Had he not worked on his individual achievements in previous games this innings wouldn't happen.

We need to give credit to the coach (even partial) where it is due.

bujhee kom
July 10, 2010, 01:47 PM
I give Siddons credit for his teaching to this team! Thank you dearest coach, but you have got to work harder!

Raynman
July 10, 2010, 01:50 PM
I give the whole team and Siddons their due for this match but lets keep in mind that the pro Siddons camp had exonerated Siddons from any wrong doings of our horrendous bowling. Today the bowlers won the match defending a mere 236 so lets not get carried away in crediting Siddons for this win.

Ajfar
July 10, 2010, 01:53 PM
I give the whole team and Siddons their due for this match but lets keep in mind that the pro Siddons camp had exonerated Siddons from any wrong doings of our horrendous bowling. Today the bowlers won the match defending a mere 236 so lets not get carried away in crediting Siddons for this win.

As the coach obviously Siddon deserves his fair share of credit. But IMO This win belongs to Mashrafe. He was absolutely brilliant in the field today. His field placement was excellent. I'm glad I was wrong about him.

FagunerAgun
July 10, 2010, 01:57 PM
hey stop blaming the coach its the players who are performing upto the marks ,
and we wont loose against associates so easily so be realistic.

well stated. Our players must perform.

Baundule
July 10, 2010, 02:09 PM
"I tried to be more calm today and just trust the boys to do the job out there today," says Jamie Siddons. "We try and get better all the time and trust our own individual performances, but it's hard when you keep getting beat. It's unbelievable [to beat England]. They're probably the best team in the world at the moment. I think our fast bowlers bowled much better today, also with a bit of luck on their side. We put the screws on and kept getting wickets, that's the secret. We're going to sing a song [in the dressing room], it's going to be great mate."

The above tells why we won the match. Mashrafe's captaincy was quite impressive to say the least. If Siddons' were to interfere I am sure we were going to lose. After scoring 236, Siddons were not going for a win against the best team in the world.

Dilscoop
July 10, 2010, 02:26 PM
^^ Ya, one can NOT credit JS for this win. It was all Mr Mashrafe bin Mortaza Kousik, who won us the game. Lead from the front, in all 4 department, batting, bowling, fielding, and most importantly captaincy. Like some of us were hoping that he would pull a Afridi here, and fix his form with the captaincy. And he did. He batted well, bowled well, accept that one over. And along with him our bowlers won us the game, a department that has been JS's excuse, the 1st place to point finger at. What happened to his batting?? Why such a low total? Why were we 40 runs short? Even after getting good solid base start? Why?

Well done Mashrafe, you shut the SOB up big time.

JS must go!

Raynman
July 10, 2010, 03:35 PM
Raynman bhai,
You are absolutely on the money! I am so sorry that in the past I misunderstood your posts and point about Siddons and I probably argued and passed my idiotic comments, I ask for your forgiveness for that. I was wrong and you were right and you explained things very clearly in this post. Please forgive me, you are a great mind and I send you my salaam and deep respect.:-*:notworthy: :big_hug:

no need for asking for forgiveness. Forums are about opinions and sometimes emotions get the best of all of us. As long as nothing gets personal and out of line, I'm good.

al Furqaan
July 10, 2010, 05:12 PM
:) this was a team victory!! individual performance of Imrul was necessary. Had he not worked on his individual achievements in previous games this innings wouldn't happen.

We need to give credit to the coach (even partial) where it is due.

as big of siddons fan as i am, i think this win was more a product of mash's motivational ability and his captaincy (not to mention his bowling and batting).

i am as surprised as anyone, since i never thought mash was going to be any leader of any substance.

Miraz
July 12, 2010, 01:44 PM
Now we move into the most important part of the tour.

I am repeating again "Siddons must go if we lose against the associates".

reyme
July 12, 2010, 01:50 PM
One thing I know he will be on sabbatical leave after the series.

Beamer
July 12, 2010, 02:02 PM
So, playing the associates is more important part of the tour for us than playing England? I see. I guess I would have to assume that Miraz and co. doesn't believe that we can beat England in a game, so much so, that games involving England ( other big teams ) has to be automatically relegated to unimportant since we should not be able to beat them. A minnow mindset.

Miraz
July 12, 2010, 02:08 PM
So, playing the associates is more important part of the tour for us than playing England? I see. I guess I would have to assume that Miraz and co. doesn't believe that we can beat England in a game, so much so, that games involving England ( other big teams ) has to be automatically relegated to unimportant since we should not be able to beat them. A minnow mindset.

Nope Beamer, you got it wrong.

We consistently got beaten by the G8 teams in the last 12 months, yet we have consistently heard the chorus of improvement by Siddons and pro-Siddons fans like you. In the mind of Siddons, losing matches consistently against bigger nations still counts as improvemnt if there is some individual performances.

he can't claim the same after defeeats (god forbid) against the Associates. Despite our failures, we consistently defeated Associates (and Zim) in the pre-Siddons era. Matches against the associates will really show our current state in international cricket. And this is why it is the most impotant part of our tour.

Beamer
July 12, 2010, 02:17 PM
Aha ..Test matches don't count I assume as signs of improvement. Going five days routinely, scoring centuries frequently against test playing nations now , as opposed to getting demolished within two days during previous regimes must be overlooked, I assume. Our detractors for test status used to cite our impotence in test matches by fingering those ugly scenes. They never really went after us for our one day performances, after all, many nations have one day status now. We have muzzled them a bit in the last few years due to some stronger test performances. Sadly, what they have noticed, has gone unnoticed willfully by the card carrying members of the BC hateclub. Its self damaging.

Miraz
July 12, 2010, 02:21 PM
Glad to see the apologists are making the excuses ready for their beloved coach.

I can tell you (with the help of some inside info), your beloved coach will be in trouble if we lose against the associates. A number of coaching staff might resign and heads will roll.

_Rafi_
July 12, 2010, 02:27 PM
Miraz vai, What do you mean by lose, series or just one match?

samjad
July 12, 2010, 02:27 PM
If our boys can make minimum 250 in each and every innings they play, we should win all the matches. And that's what JS has been trying to do for last couple of years.

Now if we loose a game after making 250, which can be due to indeciplined bowling or just due to fatigue(2 games in two days!!), I can't blame JS entirely for that.

Beamer
July 12, 2010, 02:28 PM
Oh..with the help of your big inside info, you come here and start threads like this ( Fire him, he must go etc etc ), so when that happens you look good ! Good job.

If I am an apologist, which I am clearly not, you just have personal hatred or vendetta against JS for reasons only known to you.

Miraz
July 12, 2010, 02:32 PM
If our boys can make minimum 250 in each and every innings they play, we should win all the matches. And that's what JS has been trying to do for last couple of years.


You, like Siddons, are living in the past. Teams are making 300 runs regularly and we are playing for 250 runs and getting satisfied with "honorable defeats". ODI cricket has moved on mate!

By the time Siddons will realise that we have to score 300 to win matches, other teams will start making 350 as a norm.

These types of targets are silly. We should play according to match situations and try to win. In some cases even 200 might be enough, in other cases we may need to score 300. Situation should define our approach towards the game, not a theoratical mindset and definitely not according to the script regardless of match situation.

Beamer
July 12, 2010, 02:32 PM
I think BC deserves a second or third individual to carry on interviews with coaches and staff for BC. This one sided jaundiced view is damaging and clearly not serving the unbiased readers well.

Miraz
July 12, 2010, 02:34 PM
Oh..with the help of your big inside info, you come here and start threads like this ( Fire him, he must go etc etc ), so when that happens you look good ! Good job.

If I am an apologist, which I am clearly not, you just have personal hatred or vendetta against JS for reasons only known to you.

I still enjoy a very good working relation with Siddons. We trade blows when we talk, but both of us know our stance very well. I am against his approach, no personal issue with him.

samjad
July 12, 2010, 02:36 PM
You, like Siddons, are living in the past. Teams are making 300 runs regularly and we are playing for 250 runs and getting satisfied with "honorable defeats". ODI cricket has moved on mate!

Miraj bhai, hand on heart, can you tell , if our boys has mastered to make 250 yet ? Forget about what other teams doing, we have to focus on our ability. Knowing your limit is not a bad thing after all.

Miraz
July 12, 2010, 02:39 PM
I think BC deserves a second or third individual to carry on interviews with coaches and staff for BC. This one sided jaundiced view is damaging and clearly not serving the unbiased readers well.

Please go through the interviews. None of them are biased. Point out a single sentence which seemed bias. Otherwise, please don't make up baseless allegations.

I make posts in the forum as a member, not as the editor. I take interviews or write articles, bulletins as editor. I never mix one with the other.

Beamer
July 12, 2010, 02:40 PM
In that case, I must say that he is a professional. Lets be frank, if somebody was after my head ( like you are after his ), I would go after his first, let alone talk to him. He must be aware of your campaign, polling , to fire him, though as an Editor and interviewer you shouldn't be leading that campaign.

alibangali
July 12, 2010, 02:41 PM
I think BC deserves a second or third individual to carry on interviews with coaches and staff for BC. This one sided jaundiced view is damaging and clearly not serving the unbiased readers well.

A little harsh against Miraz bhai who is putting his points across in a constructive way.

This thead is a discussion between pro and anti siddon fans so i am sure the readers are intellectual enough to make their own minds up and gather their own opinions.

bujhee kom
July 12, 2010, 02:41 PM
Na na comon dear boro bhais, please comon, it's just us in here, we are family, no more fight please bhais!
Love one another! That's what BD needs at the moment! True love, real love!! Not war! Not confusion, no hatred! You guys are friends, ei comon! You guys are cousins, brothers! Same blood, no more fight dear bhais!

Miraz
July 12, 2010, 02:43 PM
Miraj bhai, hand on heart, can you tell , if our boys has mastered to make 250 yet ? Forget about what other teams doing, we have to focus on our ability. Knowing your limit is not a bad thing after all.

Off course, our boys have the ability to score 250 runs. With current flawed approach we are trying to undermine our ability and making them satisfied with defeats. A big percentage of International sports is played in minds. This is not the right approach for any international team.

You play for win. If you think, you are not good enough to win, you never gonna win matches.

Peace
July 12, 2010, 02:44 PM
No coach sucking please!
Our boys have thick skin as of Gondar. Before we suck JS, we need to slice the boy’s skin thin.
To Miraz bhai, inside info should remain inside; this creates unnecessary unrest within the team.

Beamer
July 12, 2010, 02:46 PM
Do whatever you have to do Miraz. But, seriously, you are better than that. You seriously don't think we have gotten better in test matches individually and collectively? If we regressed in tests, I would ask for his head too. I think its more important in world standing that we at least compete in test matches. One day victories are great and we should have more, but its the test improvement that gives me hope, and that is the reason why I do like Jamie Siddons. It's not a biased view, or an apologist on his behalf, but I think he has done well with our batsmen.

Beamer
July 12, 2010, 02:49 PM
Na na comon dear boro bhais, please comon, it's just us in here, we are family, no more fight please bhais!
Love one another! That's what BD needs at the moment! True love, real love!! Not war! Not confusion, no hatred! You guys are friends, ei comon! You guys are cousins, brothers! Same blood, no more fight dear bhais!

You are right. I like Miraz's work, but dont agree with him generally. He is yet to ban me! Maybe, I should count my lucky stars..

alibangali
July 12, 2010, 02:50 PM
Do whatever you have to do Miraz. But, seriously, you are better than that. You seriously don't think we have gotten better in test matches individually and collectively? If we regressed in tests, I would ask for his head too. I think its more important in world standing that we at least compete in test matches. One day victories are great and we should have more, but its the test improvement that gives me hope, and that is the reason why I do like Jamie Siddons. It's not a biased view, or an apologist on his behalf, but I think he has done well with our batsmen.

In terms of test improvements all I see is improvement in batting on flat pitches, we still suck at playing in moving conditions and our bowling is still below par. Also do we have to sacrifice our ODi performances to facilate a slight improvement in test batting?

Neel Here
July 12, 2010, 02:51 PM
please people, we are getting afraid seeing two heavyweights battle it out. :-|

Miraz bhai, are there any prospective names in consideration in case the unthinkable does happen ?

Beamer bhai, I agree that JS has contributed to improving test performance but the question is can he give anything more ? I think under him the team is not able to take the jump from respectable loser to fighter.

Miraz
July 12, 2010, 02:53 PM
In that case, I must say that he is a professional. Lets be frank, if somebody was after my head ( like you are after his ), I would go after his first, let alone talk to him. He must be aware of your campaign, polling , to fire him, though as an Editor and interviewer you shouldn't be leading that campaign.

He is definitely a very good professional. He is a passionate cricketer and I honestly like him as a person. Unfortunately, he is a misfit as the head coach of an international team like Bangladesh. His approach is flawed from the outset and did more harm than good to our boys. I have no problem to keep him as the batting coach of our boys or give him the charge of our academy team, but he is not a head coach material.

I think for Bangladesh cricket, my personal liking or disliking doesn't interfere in my thought process or expression in any forum.

Miraz
July 12, 2010, 02:57 PM
You are right. I like Miraz's work, but dont agree with him generally. He is yet to ban me! Maybe, I should count my lucky stars..

Hahaha Beamer. I have no authority to ban or unban anyone. :)

If I had the authority to ban or unban anyone, I would have never banned you and unbanned you as soon as you got banned by someone else as I really enjoy these little banters (or, should I say fight?) with you.

:)

Neel Here
July 12, 2010, 02:58 PM
any chance of a reply to my question ? :-|

samjad
July 12, 2010, 02:58 PM
Our player might have ability to make 250 every now and then , but they did not do it regularly enough. That's my opinion, some BC members might come up with the stats though..

Spitfire_x86
July 12, 2010, 02:59 PM
he can't claim the same after defeeats (god forbid) against the Associates. Despite our failures, we consistently defeated Associates (and Zim) in the pre-Siddons era. Matches against the associates will really show our current state in international cricket. And this is why it is the most impotant part of our tour.
Why don't you mention that our minnow bashing record remained just as good (maybe even got a bit better) in Siddons era?

Miraz
July 12, 2010, 03:03 PM
any chance of a reply to my question ? :-|

I have names in mind like other people, but I sincerely hope the unthinkable won't happen.

It's a challenge to make people interested in Bangladesh coaching job. The preferred names are not going to commit with only 6-7 months left before the world cup.

Neel Here
July 12, 2010, 03:07 PM
agreed, changing coach this near to the WC would be a disaster. what BCB can do is take steps to mitigate the damage from the negative attitude siddons brings to the team. perhaps get a sports psychologist for the team ?

Miraz
July 12, 2010, 03:11 PM
agreed, changing coach this near to the WC would be a disaster. what BCB can do is take steps to mitigate the damage from the negative attitude siddons brings to the team. perhaps get a sports psychologist for the team ?

They are already trying to do similar things. Appointing Sourav ganguly as batting advisor until the world cup and appointing Rhodes as fielding advisor are on the cards.

Neel Here
July 12, 2010, 03:12 PM
is ganguly with the team right now ? how is he and JS getting along ?

Dilscoop
July 12, 2010, 03:30 PM
^^ Ya good question. I did not see Ganguly or Jonty Rhodes. I think all those are BS

wasi90lkv1
July 12, 2010, 04:44 PM
i am expecting bangladesh to win all 4 games without a lot of difficulties.

BANFAN
July 13, 2010, 03:24 AM
Miraj bhai, hand on heart, can you tell , if our boys has mastered to make 250 yet ? Forget about what other teams doing, we have to focus on our ability. Knowing your limit is not a bad thing after all.

You mean we don't have the ability to score 300 and we shouldnt try to do that? Who measures the ability for you? Should we start mastering from 100? or even less? Can any team claim that they have mastered the art of scoring any run every match? Heavens sake, is there any other logic left to defend incompetence?

We started hearing this 250 since 2007, 2 years and 8 months, aren't we supposed to make progress on that? More over, we didnt have to make 250 to beat england. and England couldnt make 250 against us. What should we conclude in that?

We need to play to win with bat, ball & fielding performance. Lift one to compensate another, we can't get stuck into achieving 250 forever. problem of vision, mission, objectives of our coach, nothing else.

auntu
July 13, 2010, 04:00 AM
They are already trying to do similar things. Appointing Sourav ganguly as batting advisor until the world cup and appointing Rhodes as fielding advisor are on the cards.
So, both SG and JR would be with the team till WC?

Miraz
July 13, 2010, 04:08 AM
So, both SG and JR would be with the team till WC?

Nothing finalized yet!!

Sohel
July 13, 2010, 04:29 AM
I've said it once and I'll say it again, JS is a bad hire enjoying his exuberant salary, drinks at the IC and AC, and the ride that comes with all that. He smugly takes credit for everything good, the result of NATURAL PROGRESSION IMHO, and avoids responsibility when things go wrong as they usually do. His PR skills are dismal, something unacceptable for a Head Coach/motivator (not a specialized batting coach he isn't in BD), and his attitude moronically passive and defensive. The loser should be canned for his pathetic record alone.

Having said that, no coach can dramatically improve our side as long as the following conditions continue to prevail and stagnate our growth as a test playing nation.

1) Shite pitches: no good pitches, no quality bowling and subsequently no quality batting required to sustain success at the highest level. Endemic corruption must be mitigated and managed to do all this.

2) Arbitrary, lobbying based selection by imbeciles.

3) Inadequate A team cricket to prepare our guy for the highest level while we really develop the NCL with better coaching (read foreign) and scouting (read foreign) for each one of teams and their aged-based sides.

Peace and GOD bless~

Baundule
July 13, 2010, 05:00 AM
Sohel bhai, that's a perfect post. I like specially the natural progression part. Most of the people ignore that fact.

BanCricFan
July 13, 2010, 05:17 AM
I don't think Siddons is suitable for a head coach. All his interviews right from the begining of his tenure points to the fact that he isn't a very thoughtful and balanced individual. We all know the infamous gaffes he has made such as not knowing who Rafique was and that Whatmore only worked for short term successes sacrficing the longterm ones...I'm para-phrasing, off course. There are a few others, like the public criticism of Mash and putting of Tamim on a high pedestal at the expense of others.

Look, the ever so slight improvement in the Tests is a natural and gradual one. Whatmore didn't have the service of Shakib or a Tamim arguably two best cricketers we have ever had. Most of the other cricketers are also generaly more sound than the last ones. I wont hesitate to say that Whatmore would have made a much better feast with the ingredients Siddons has at his disposal. I say this not as a lover of Whatmore nor the hater of Siddons.

Siddons approach is detremental for our young and supposedly "up-comimg" cricketers. The likes of Riyad and others and Bangladesh cricket will not benefit in the longer run from this. The culture of Negativity isn't the way forward. It can be dangerously pervasive of the body and mind. And, sometime the process can become irreversible. Individual performances are very important in any game- we all know this- but not at the expense of the team cohesion or performance.

Siddons is getting BIG salary. He needs to deliver...so far, he has not.

Miraz
July 13, 2010, 05:45 AM
One of the recent blunders of Siddons

Just after Mashrafe was awarded captaincy, Siddons went public with Cricinfo saying "Shakib is the ideal captain". It undermines his current captain right from the word go and makes his job lot difficult to lift the spirit of the team and unify them under his leadership.

reyme
July 13, 2010, 06:25 AM
^ Exactly. He has really lost his mind. I wish he was given some other duty away from the national team. All he does, talks rubbish. Only if he would spend that time coaching. Its like he was hired to be the spokesperson of the team!

reyme
July 13, 2010, 06:30 AM
Awesome posts BanCricFan and Sohel NR. Could not said any better.

Tigers_eye
July 13, 2010, 09:14 AM
The distance between England and BD (at England), and between BD and Ireland (at Ireland) are same? Yes or No.

England had a clean sheet with us before this ODI series. We do not have a clean sheet against Ireland. Agreed?
+++
How come English fans, commentators, pundits and board members are not going after Andy Flower since they lost (at home) to BD?

How come some BD fans want Siddon's head if we lose a game against Ireland?

Can someone logically answer the above questions?

Raynman
July 13, 2010, 09:25 AM
The distance between England and BD (at England), and between BD and Ireland (at Ireland) are same? Yes or No.

England had a clean sheet with us before this ODI series. We do not have a clean sheet against Ireland. Agreed?
+++
How come English fans, commentators, pundits and board members are not going after Andy Flower since they lost (at home) to BD?

How come some BD fans want Siddon's head if we lose a game against Ireland?

Can someone logically answer the above questions?


Because ENG went from an after thought in limited overs matches to winning a T20 world cup and closing out a 5 game series with ODI within the first 3 games. They bounced back immediately with a 144 run win after losing to BD which registers in their world as a small bump and nothing to be concerned about.

For us where winning has been sacrificed for the sake of stats padding it is a different scenario. Losing to the associates shows that we have come from the days of threatening to dive with the big boys to having gone back to the kiddy pool and drowning.

Tigers_eye
July 13, 2010, 09:34 AM
Because ENG went from an after thought in limited overs matches to winning a T20 world cup and closing out a 5 game series with ODI within the first 3 games. They bounced back immediately with a 144 run win after losing to BD which registers in their world as a small bump and nothing to be concerned about.

For us where winning has been sacrificed for the sake of stats padding it is a different scenario. Losing to the associates shows that we have come from the days of threatening to dive with the big boys to having gone back to the kiddy pool and drowning.
This is an emotional response not a logical one. It doesn't matter what they did to Australia at home, losing to minnows at home with 12 players playing is acceptable? Andy must go. Big boys should never lose to BD at least at home conditions.

When others (big boys) lose to us it is a fluke or a bump. Why can't our loss to the Minnows (if we have one) be like that? Why do we have to go for the head coach? Is our hatred coming out of the bag?

Or we think we are the big boys!!

deshprem
July 13, 2010, 09:37 AM
This is an emotional response not a logical one. It doesn't matter what they did to Australia at home, losing to minnows at home with 12 players playing is acceptable? Andy must go. Big boys should never lose to BD at least at home conditions.

When others (big boys) lose to us it is a fluke or a bump. Why can't our loss to the Minnows (if we have one) be like that? Why do we have to go for the head coach? Is our hatred coming out of the bag?

hmm yeh i agree

Raynman
July 13, 2010, 09:40 AM
This is an emotional response not a logical one. It doesn't matter what they did to Australia at home, losing to minnows at home with 12 players playing is acceptable? Andy must go. Big boys should never lose to BD at least at home conditions.

When others (big boys) lose to us it is a fluke or a bump. Why can't our loss to the Minnows (if we have one) be like that? Why do we have to go for the head coach? Is our hatred coming out of the bag?

So Andy losing to BD after winning A WORLD CUP and defeating AUS in an ODI series and building ENG as a limited overs threat after a long run of ODI mediocrity by ENG

=

Siddons losing to IRE after a long string of defeats ?


And I think a 144 run thrashing in the follow up game gives ENG a right to claim the BD win to be a fluke.

Miraz
July 13, 2010, 09:41 AM
Because ENG went from an after thought in limited overs matches to winning a T20 world cup and closing out a 5 game series with ODI within the first 3 games. They bounced back immediately with a 144 run win after losing to BD which registers in their world as a small bump and nothing to be concerned about.

For us where winning has been sacrificed for the sake of stats padding it is a different scenario. Losing to the associates shows that we have come from the days of threatening to dive with the big boys to having gone back to the kiddy pool and drowning.

Very well said. If this is not a logical answer, I have no idea what a logical answer is!!

May be praising Siddons for whatever he does is the only logical thing in the eye of some fans.

pocha
July 13, 2010, 09:45 AM
This is an emotional response not a logical one. It doesn't matter what they did to Australia at home, losing to minnows at home with 12 players playing is acceptable? Andy must go. Big boys should never lose to BD at least at home conditions.

When others (big boys) lose to us it is a fluke or a bump. Why can't our loss to the Minnows (if we have one) be like that? Why do we have to go for the head coach? Is our hatred coming out of the bag?

Whao what a logic, winning a match after 25 straight losses followed by a win and another heavy loss is worthy of keeping the coach for next 25 years.On the contrary winning T20 world cup and beating Oz 3-0 (followed by couple of consolation win of course) and losing an one off match is unacceptable according to you. :lol: If we win 3 out of the next 10 matches against Big 8, only then it makes any sense or shall we wait for another 25 losses followed by a win..Bravo Siddons and his followers.

_Rafi_
July 13, 2010, 10:44 AM
So Andy losing to BD after winning A WORLD CUP and defeating AUS in an ODI series and building ENG as a limited overs threat after a long run of ODI mediocrity by ENG

=

Siddons losing to IRE after a long string of defeats ?


And I think a 144 run thrashing in the follow up game gives ENG a right to claim the BD win to be a fluke.

some things to be noted- England achieving all these things by playing with sides which are not far more strong than them. Bangladesh played all those matches with the sides which are far more superior than us. Bangladesh played some good cricket too but our effort undermined by Dew factor, Umpiring and injuries.
In near future we didnt play so much match against big boys. We are predictably losing against them and its looking bad because there are no win against minnows in between.

BANFAN
July 15, 2010, 12:24 AM
One of the recent blunders of Siddons

Just after Mashrafe was awarded captaincy, Siddons went public with Cricinfo saying "Shakib is the ideal captain". It undermines his current captain right from the word go and makes his job lot difficult to lift the spirit of the team and unify them under his leadership.

Right. And that gives Shakib enough encouragement for developing wrong attitudes/notions and ruin him as well.

Ajfar
July 15, 2010, 12:38 AM
This is what he said.
"Shakib was the main person behind the decision, he decided it was a bit much for him," Siddons told Cricinfo. "His form was down with the bat and he needed a rest. Mashrafe was always going to come into the one-day side so it was a perfect chance for him to take the reins.

"We'll see how it goes after this tour, I think Shakib is ideally suited to the captaincy particularly leading into the World Cup but if Mash performs with the ball - and that's his big challenge - he may be a good choice as well. If Shakib gets into form we may stick with it."

What so wrong with saying that? He didn't say that Shakib should have stayed the captain or Mash shouldn't be the captain. He is talking about the long run leading up to the world cup. He also points out that its a big challenge for Mash with the ball. and everyone knew that considering his recent form.

and why would shakib get a wrong attitude? Who's idea was it to let go off the captaincy? his. He was smart enough to realize that its too much for him to handle that he needs to focus on his game. shakib knows he is off form so does the coach.

al-Sagar
July 15, 2010, 01:15 AM
One of the recent blunders of Siddons

Just after Mashrafe was awarded captaincy, Siddons went public with Cricinfo saying "Shakib is the ideal captain". It undermines his current captain right from the word go and makes his job lot difficult to lift the spirit of the team and unify them under his leadership.

looks like Siddons is trying hard to get a sack.

perhaps his contract says he will get a huge compensation if sacked but no compensation if he resigns.

he is trying to make blunders but looks like either BCB is stupid to notice that or they are clever in escaping the compensation

deshprem
July 15, 2010, 02:04 AM
looks like Siddons is trying hard to get a sack.

perhaps his contract says he will get a huge compensation if sacked but no compensation if he resigns.

he is trying to make blunders but looks like either BCB is stupid to notice that or they are clever in escaping the compensation

refer to post number 106

bujhee kom
July 15, 2010, 02:15 AM
Hmmm...the man should not have said that....He made a very big silly mistake and now sucking on his pinkie!

lamisa
July 15, 2010, 02:33 AM
i don't agree with siddons for a change.i don't know why but i don't like shakib at all,i feel that he is too proud and selfish.but i don't know him personally,maybe he's not how i think he is,so siddons thinks he's a suitable captain for bd.maybe he's saying that because mash is injury prone and there aren't suitable atlernatives

Nafi
July 15, 2010, 11:00 AM
Get rid of Siddons, I say right now.

Odhora
July 15, 2010, 11:03 AM
Wake up f BCB. It's a do or die time. Sack Siddons please.

shabbir
July 15, 2010, 11:09 AM
after today's humiliation against Ireland He should resign or BCB should force him to go.

Miraz
July 15, 2010, 11:11 AM
He won't give up. BCB must sack him. Even a local coach will do better than him.

Dilscoop
July 15, 2010, 11:14 AM
No no!! why?? Siddique scored a 100, Shakib scored a 50. Why should you guys sack him? Those are so personal achievement! JS is taking the team to the right direction.

wasi90lkv1
July 15, 2010, 11:15 AM
He won't give up. BCB must sack him. Even a local coach will do better than him.

coach does not play in the field. players do.

bujhee kom
July 15, 2010, 11:15 AM
Situation is very bad...weather forecast is looking bad!

dolcevita
July 15, 2010, 11:16 AM
yes siddons is to blame but I blame more Tamim Iqbal ...after his back to back hundreds he has become to much ARROGANT and he paid the price

Dilscoop
July 15, 2010, 11:17 AM
And now we will hear these kinds of "back-up" from JS fans.
coach does not play in the field. players do.

wasi90lkv1
July 15, 2010, 11:18 AM
And now we will hear these kinds of "back-up" from JS fans.


i do not think any coach can help bangladesh cricket team.

SS
July 15, 2010, 11:19 AM
now I know why Doc shaheb mentioned this...we are indeed in trouble...

Rifat
July 15, 2010, 11:24 AM
now I know why Doc shaheb mentioned this...we are indeed in trouble...

yeah, it is not wise to argue against Experienced people like Miraz bhai.

People like me take posts here and there and just log into cricinfo and take stats for granted and watch cricket rarely and then just chat away..... what do i know about cricket?


not extending Whatmore's contract was indeed the worse decision ever made by BCB,even more worse than giving Ashraful the captaincy.(but then later he improved a little bit on it..and then sacking him again, of course, a non performing captain is a burden on the team!)

we do indeed miss those prosperous days with Bashar and Whatmore, don't we??

wasi90lkv1
July 15, 2010, 11:26 AM
yeah, it is not wise to argue against Experienced people like Miraz bhai.

People like me take posts here and there and just log into cricinfo and take stats for granted and watch cricket rarely and then just chat away..... what do i know about cricket?


not extending Whatmore's contract was indeed the worse decision ever made by BCB,even more worse than giving Ashraful the captaincy.(but then later he improved a little bit on it..and then sacking him again, of course, a non performing captain is a burden on the team!)

we do indeed miss those prosperous days with Bashar and Whatmore, don't we??

during whatmore era, wins used to look fluke (to me).

now, whenever bangladesh wins it is somewhat convincing. for example, bangladesh dominated england in bristol, bangladesh dominated new zealand in dhaka (when they won).

pocha
July 15, 2010, 11:30 AM
during whatmore era, wins used to look fluke (to me).

now, whenever bangladesh wins it is somewhat convincing. for example, bangladesh dominated england in bristol, bangladesh dominated new zealand in dhaka (when they won).

what rubbish piece of crap. BD dominated both SA and Ind in WC 07, try more excuses now

shabbir
July 15, 2010, 11:52 AM
Bhai wasi90lkv1 I think you don't understand anything about cricket,if coach is not important.Why teams
around the world spending so much money for good coach.Still Srilankan people give credit and proudly name Sir Gary Sobers to change their cricket culture.

ayonb
July 15, 2010, 12:00 PM
The player diet has to be changed. Too much fish & rice (Maach & Bhaat)..

Norom haaga theke shokto haaga banate hoibe..

wasi90lkv1
July 15, 2010, 12:03 PM
Bhai wasi90lkv1 I think you don't understand anything about cricket,if coach is not important.Why teams
around the world spending so much money for good coach.Still Srilankan people give credit and proudly name Sir Gary Sobers to change their cricket culture.


it is not like bangladesh used to win before siddons came. our team used to get hammered too; we could not score 200 runs on a regular basis before, now we are doing it almost in every match. we need a few match winning bowlers, things should be back to normal.

shafiul and rubel are not good bowlers in my opinion. if they are the best we have, then it is sad. we need a good bowling coach who can teach these so called pacers how to bowl in the right line and length on a regular basis.

what i am trying to say is, if bangladesh wants to change coach that is fine. but the result may not be different with the new coach until players start to play as a unit. siddons is not there to change their dipers, siddons is there to solve any technical problem players may have (which siddons is doing i believe). winning mentalities should come from the grassroot level.

Miraz
July 15, 2010, 01:37 PM
Bangladesh is aiming for the wrong target. Instead of taregting to win matches, we are targeting to score 240 runs. Today we have scored 234 (almost 240 runs) and lost badly against a side that targeted to win.

Unless we get our mindset right, we never gonaa suceed at this level. We were inconsistent during Whatmore, but now we are consistent losers.

Siddons has finally turned us consistent, but not the consistency we needed.

Neel Here
July 15, 2010, 01:55 PM
coach does not play in the field. players do.

then you don't need a coach at all do you ? good, sack siddons and use his salary to support young players from poor families.

bujhee kom
July 15, 2010, 01:57 PM
The player diet has to be changed. Too much fish & rice (Maach & Bhaat)..

Norom haaga theke shokto haaga banate hoibe..

Hahahahah...correcto bhaiyo, absolumo!

Ajfar
July 15, 2010, 02:04 PM
wasi bangladesh dominated england in bristol?? you sure you watched the same as game as we did? 8 runs needing in the last over doesnt seem domination to me.
<br />Posted via BC Mobile Edition (iPhone)

auntu
July 15, 2010, 02:15 PM
I agree JS is a terrible tactician but a good batting coach.

But I think, sacking him now would be a devastating decision. We won't be able to find out better replacement from the international arena. Unless BCB finds a coach who is doing good with the Aussie state teams or English county teams, BCB should not sack JS now. Find a replacement first.

I don't think there is any better local replacement at the moment. Shujon, with all his hypes about his cricketing brain don't think he would be a better replacement. At present as we are all talking about JS's problem with planning why can't he point out any of them? We haven't heard anything promising from him so far. He is probably just following the day to day schedule done by JS.

As we are raging our anger on the coach we should not forget about the incompetence of the board. The present board is run by from top corrupt and ill minded persons. Until they have been replaced, I don't see any real chance of betterment of Bangladesh cricket.

It has been a regular practice that the decisions by the selectors have been altered by board high officials. Foisal was not chosen by the selectors rather he was pushed in by top morons of BCB.

The fishy and unnecessary guys roaming around with the team is another point to be taken care. It harms the team mentality. The director who went to observe BD's ENG test tour (who actually spent some days in UK and went to Canada) gave a report that he is suspicious whereas the team is involved with match fixing! Because he found no other reason of their loosing to ENG in English soil! So, this is their level of cricketing knowledge!

BCB is yet to appoint a CEO and a CFO. They are taking this decision for the last two years or so. Just ask any first class cricketer what is the procedure to have his National league remuneration. You would be amazed to know the answer.

It's a total darkness there.

Neel Here
July 15, 2010, 02:22 PM
are ei good batting coach kotodin shunbo, associate der against eo 250 korte pare na.

Beamer
July 15, 2010, 02:35 PM
are ei good batting coach kotodin shunbo, associate der against eo 250 korte pare na.

Team has become too dependent on Tamim and his fast starts. He fails, our RR drops, and we turtle pace to an average total. We have no power below middle order. Only people capable of quick innings are Sakib, Ash and Aftab, and we know all about the later two with Sakib a bit out of sorts. What can you do if you do not have the right player for the right spots. Mushy or Riyad can't do it. You will be asking the wrong people to up the tempo at no.6-8. Not sure what the remedy is.

Miraz
July 15, 2010, 02:38 PM
So, it's all Tamim's fault. I have heard someone publicly put pressure on Tamim saying that BD has only chance of winning when Tamim scores 150 and bla bla..

What a wonderful way by a so called genius coach to put pressure on your best batsman and undermine the rest. Bravado.

shaad
July 15, 2010, 02:42 PM
Miraz and others, I am by no means the biggest fan of Siddons. But given that we lost three top order batsmen (particularly Tamim, and Jahurul) in the space of ours first 28 runs, batsmen that we seem to depend upon to set up the platform for any decent score, Imrul was never expected to accelerate, Riyad has been channeling Javed Omar of late, and our bowling has been largely toothless, what do you suppose a different coach would have done?

I think we are presently in a condition where if our top order doesn't click, unless (i) our bowlers play out of their skins and (ii) the opposing team has a horrid day, we are destined to lose. Now, you can blame this on Siddons -- that he has led/managed/"developed" the BD team into a position where a strong initial platform is a prerequisite for a win, but this is not too different from the situation with other teams. The major difference is that the other test nations generally have, on average, players of a better calibre and more experience, and thus enough resilience to sometimes bounce back from dire situations, whereas we don't, and thus can't.

Now, I certainly have no problems with critiques and criticism of Siddons, but I would appreciate them more if constructive suggestions were presented -- as in providing examples of how some other coach would have handled matters more effectively (e.g. taking the batting PP earlier). And by that I mean concrete examples of strategy and tactics, not necessarily amorphous comments about developing winning mentalities. For instance, one could argue that Shakib's arrogant confidence when he comes into bat is an example of a "winning mentality" or "targeting a win." But if that results in his trying dumbass cheeky shots without getting his eye in, and getting out before reaching double figures, that's not particularly effective, is it?

Zeeshan
July 15, 2010, 02:46 PM
amorphous comments about developing winning mentalities

What's so 'amorphous' about that?

Miraz
July 15, 2010, 02:54 PM
Shaad bhai, regardless of our match position, we take our powerplay from 45 overs. This is scripted in stone. Regardless of opposition strength, we aim to score 240. Regardless of oppositon strength, we never try to chase 300 plus score. Reagrdless of the results, our players are happy to tell electronic/print media that we are playing good cricket . No desire to win, no fighting mentaility. Too easily satisfied despite countless losses. These are only few permanent changes that Siddons has brought to the Bangladesh team.

I have tried in many ways, he doesn't even believe that we should play for win against G8 nations. What can you do?

Neel Here
July 15, 2010, 03:29 PM
both whatmore and siddons have come at the wrong time, siddons would have been good in the earlier era and a motivator like whatmore would have been invaluable now.

Neel Here
July 15, 2010, 03:33 PM
Team has become too dependent on Tamim and his fast starts. He fails, our RR drops, and we turtle pace to an average total. We have no power below middle order. Only people capable of quick innings are Sakib, Ash and Aftab, and we know all about the later two with Sakib a bit out of sorts. What can you do if you do not have the right player for the right spots. Mushy or Riyad can't do it. You will be asking the wrong people to up the tempo at no.6-8. Not sure what the remedy is.

can you call it improved batting if after so many years the team still depends on one individual. how is that different from whatmore era, just replace tamin with ashraful.
I won't deny that batting especially in tests have improved but we need to realize that we have reached the area of law of diminishing returns with siddons. it's time to move on, his overall attitude is now harming the benefits that BD got in batting.

Zeeshan
July 15, 2010, 03:50 PM
both whatmore and siddons have come at the wrong time, siddons would have been good in the earlier era and a motivator like whatmore would have been invaluable now.

Sheitai. All the emo posters here in the forum trying to lampoon saying coach's job is not to be 'cheerleaders' don't realize the fact that other than haater upor gaaal fulaye boshe thakar cheye if a coach doesn't instill the so called vibe or the energy or the je ne sais quoi joi de vivre we will continue to lose like this. I think he is more of an analytical, logical left brain type while Dav was more of right brained inspirational father figure. You need both. Nitpickety nose picking analysis will take you this far. You need to have that oomph to give you that hyperdrive.

shaad
July 15, 2010, 03:56 PM
Miraz,

Yes, the batting PP was an instance of what I meant by concrete suggestions. I also haven't seen particularly aggressive field settings, barring a few instances like the second ODI against England -- too much deference to the perceived ability of a G8 team, I think. And our bowling, particularly our spin bowling, does seem to have gone downhill.

That said, how do you get the team to change? Practically? Understand, for instance, that I don't have a problem with say, Shakib targeting the bowlers of the opposing team when he comes in to bat. I just want him to get his eye in, such that when he does, he is able to accelerate the RR and still stay around, not disappear after just a flurry of fours. I don't deny that Siddons has improved the batting of some of our players, but I don't think he has instilled in them the ability to read the state of a match, realize what is required and successfully change gears appropriately.

At present, our strategy seems to be, hope the first 4 batsmen Tamim, Imrul, Junaid, Jaharul can post a large total, and hope one of the middle Shakib, Mushy, Roqibul, or Riyad, can consolidate from that. Now, I agree, that that's a very one-dimensional strategy. But, given the tools at hand (our not very consistent batsmen and largely toothless bowlers), how else do you utilize them?

Obviously, I certainly don't agree with Siddon's views about attempts for "honourable defeats" against G8 nations. But do the players believe that -- that we can't beat G8 teams? Do they seem satisfied when you talk to them? I understand that they spout the "playing good cricket" line when talking to the media, but do they really believe that, or are they still hungry for wins?

I think part of the issue here is also that my personal biases expect competent people to be self-motivated (as you probably know well, Miraz, you can sometimes motivate a student to complete a beautiful set of experiments, but if he doesn't have that inherent drive himself, he is unlike to become a competent independent investigator in his own right). I think Rafique was a perfect illustration of this; and I suspect there may well be members of the current team who are nowhere near as motivated.

But my question remains: on a strategic and tactical level, with say, even another coach in place of Siddons, how do you change the manner in which we play towards a direction that might gain us some more victories?

Zeeshan
July 15, 2010, 03:58 PM
Heck if I was batsman my motivation for my life would be fueled by getting up each morning and trying to beat Tendulkar's record. Tamim has that arrogant -live the moment- personae. Living for mediocrity never did anyone anything good. We lose to teams like Ireland and Sussex because we have nothing to gain from the win. So a coach's duty is to instill that factor that it doesn't matter who your opponent is if you pile on runs like dropping a jack hammer on opponent will give you an aura of invincibilty. But minmina mentality like 'eita aregga khela ari....kono rokome jitlei hoibo' will only give shite results. That's why when teams like India, England, SL beats us, they respect us more than they should producing thumping wins.

alibangali
July 15, 2010, 03:58 PM
Sheitai. All the emo posters here in the forum trying to lampoon coach saying their job is not to be 'cheerleaders' don't realize the fact that other than haater upor gaaal fulaye boshe thakar cheye if a coach doesn't instill the so called vibe or the energy or the je ne sais quoi joi de vivre we will continue to lose like this. I agree with NH that Siddons and I think he is more of an analytical, logical left brain type while Dav was more of right brained inspirational father figure. You need both. Nitpickety nose picking analysis will take you this far. You need to have that oomph to give you that hyperdrive.

Even having an overdrive would suffice rather than crusing to an average meager result.

imtiaz82
July 15, 2010, 04:04 PM
Greenidge, Whatmore, Siddons will come and go... but condition of Bangladesh cricket will never improve. We are exactly in the same standard as we were in 1999 Worldcup.

I think the fans writing analysis and counter analysis are simply wasting their time. We should just accept that we have a mediocare team that shocks everyone once in a blue moon, we just need to celebrate that day like a WorldCup win and move on..

alibangali
July 15, 2010, 04:09 PM
Greenidge, Whatmore, Siddons will come and go... but condition of Bangladesh cricket will never improve. We are exactly in the same standard as we were in 1999 Worldcup.

I think the fans writing analysis and counter analysis are simply wasting their time. We should just accept that we have a mediocare team that shocks everyone once in a blue moon, we just need to celebrate that day like a WorldCup win and move on..

WOW

Are you sure you are not the demon king JS in disguise?

shaad
July 15, 2010, 04:10 PM
Heck if I was batsman my motivation for my life would be fueled by getting up each morning and trying to beat Tendulkar's record. Tamim has that arrogant -live the moment- personae. Living for mediocrity never did anyone anything good. We lose to teams like Ireland and Sussex because we have nothing to gain from the win. So a coach's duty is to instill that factor that it doesn't matter who your opponent is if you pile on runs like dropping a jack hammer on opponent will give you an aura of invincibilty. But minmina mentality like 'eita aregga khela ari....kono rokome jitlei hoibo' will only give shite results. That's why when teams like India, England, SL beats us, they respect us more than they should producing thumping wins.

Zeeshan, that's fine. But tell us what the remaining batsmen should have done in today's match, when both Tamim and Imrul were out for 5 each, and Jaharul for 3, leaving us largely bereft of our top order at 28/3.

Miraz
July 15, 2010, 04:14 PM
Shaad bhai, when the students are down in confidence, the teacher (read coach) can inspire them to do wonders. If they keep doing wonders, self belief and regualr success is the logical progression. In our case the opposite is happening and our boys have lost the self-belief and satisfied with too less, often insignificant achievment.

nahaz
July 15, 2010, 04:19 PM
Greenidge, Whatmore, Siddons will come and go... but condition of Bangladesh cricket will never improve. We are exactly in the same standard as we were in 1999 Worldcup.

I think the fans writing analysis and counter analysis are simply wasting their time. We should just accept that we have a mediocare team that shocks everyone once in a blue moon, we just need to celebrate that day like a WorldCup win and move on..

If we are that mediocre, fire siddons right now. Dont ever bother with foreign coach. with 1 crore/10 million taka, we can double the salary of every player in the NCL. Just hire the Rajshahi coach. He'll do much betterthan siddons.

Coach's job is not to be a cheerleader..but its also not to be the best theoretical tactician. His job is to win. And if your top 3 gets out for 28 in such a critical game (for Siddons), whose fault is it? How can he be considered even a GREAT batting coach? A GOOD batting coach is not good enough to stay as head coach after so many losses.

MohammedC
July 15, 2010, 04:23 PM
Siddons must take a plane from Belfast to Australia. (Put him on lower economy class)

Zeeshan
July 15, 2010, 04:31 PM
Zeeshan, that's fine. But tell us what the remaining batsmen should have done in today's match, when both Tamim and Imrul were out for 5 each, and Jaharul for 3, leaving us largely bereft of our top order at 28/3.

Lol I didn't watch today's match.

But, having seen glimpses of some outstanding match revivals say from ...Australia or South Africa where they were 76/6 and 3 down in the first overs vs. Gul et Paksitan respectively convinces me that these guys have this UNREALISTIC EXPECTATION/'NEVER GIVE UP' ATTITUDE that is devoid in our mentality. I am not saying coach should go all full fledged Any Given Sunday on them but where our players differ from the G8 players is STATE OF MIND. Those players create the game. Once I saw Michael Bevan revive a game from ruins by taking six or seven singles in an over, but if our players were in that place they would view it as chore.

This is where coach comes in. Siddons: getting plastered in international club (okay...it's heresay). Phil Jackson: Taking interest in personal lives of players even relationship issues. Former: Just doing his job best. Latter: Nurturing the team like a mother hen.

Genius of coach resides in choreographing a game like a bank robbery. In plain language: Siddons lacks imagination and firepower. Fixing technicalities is not the end of everything. eg. Sehwag has crappy techniques but he plays on a different level.

FagunerAgun
July 15, 2010, 04:41 PM
If we are that mediocre, fire siddons right now. Dont ever bother with foreign coach. with 1 crore/10 million taka, we can double the salary of every player in the NCL. Just hire the Rajshahi coach. He'll do much betterthan siddons.

Coach's job is not to be a cheerleader..but its also not to be the best theoretical tactician. His job is to win. And if your top 3 gets out for 28 in such a critical game (for Siddons), whose fault is it? How can he be considered even a GREAT batting coach? A GOOD batting coach is not good enough to stay as head coach after so many losses.
Well stated, nahaz. The problem is BCB is greatly divided on firing JS and JS simply preys on this disunity. He does not care for our win any more, nor do our some key players because their stats for year have already been enhanced, hence, their jobs in the team are secured.

nycpro96
July 15, 2010, 05:20 PM
We need a coach who is literally going to go into the dressing room and tell the boys, you need to win. I don't know how, but you are going to come back to me with a win. And if you don't win, next practice session, you're gonna work extra hard. And if you lose another game, same will happen. I know you guys have the ability, skill and minds to win a game of cricket, regardless of opposition, but if you walk into a field with your mindset fixed that you're gonna reach a certain total and do it nevertheless the position of where you're at in the game, then don't go and play. You're just gonna humiliate yourselves. I know that it isn't fair to compare our boys with the Australian XI but you ARE playing international cricket at the highest level. You NEED to bring positive results and with some more experience, you will start to win more and more games.
- Good Coach

One World
July 15, 2010, 05:32 PM
both whatmore and siddons have come at the wrong time, siddons would have been good in the earlier era and a motivator like whatmore would have been invaluable now.


Reasons, like it :up:

One World
July 15, 2010, 05:35 PM
We need a coach who is literally going to go into the dressing room and tell the boys, you need to win. I don't know how, but you are going to come back to me with a win. And if you don't win, next practice session, you're gonna work extra hard. And if you lose another game, same will happen. I know you guys have the ability, skill and minds to win a game of cricket, regardless of opposition, but if you walk into a field with your mindset fixed that you're gonna reach a certain total and do it nevertheless the position of where you're at in the game, then don't go and play. You're just gonna humiliate yourselves. I know that it isn't fair to compare our boys with the Australian XI but you ARE playing international cricket at the highest level. You NEED to bring positive results and with some more experience, you will start to win more and more games.
- Good Coach


Let me add to that, Dressing room singing is temporarily suspended till the end of the tour when our total win-loss ratio can only bring melody in thy vocals.

Miraz
July 15, 2010, 05:41 PM
We need a coach who is literally going to go into the dressing room and tell the boys, you need to win. I don't know how, but you are going to come back to me with a win. And if you don't win, next practice session, you're gonna work extra hard. And if you lose another game, same will happen. I know you guys have the ability, skill and minds to win a game of cricket, regardless of opposition, but if you walk into a field with your mindset fixed that you're gonna reach a certain total and do it nevertheless the position of where you're at in the game, then don't go and play. You're just gonna humiliate yourselves. I know that it isn't fair to compare our boys with the Australian XI but you ARE playing international cricket at the highest level. You NEED to bring positive results and with some more experience, you will start to win more and more games.
- Good Coach

Could not agree more!!

Tiger-ess
July 15, 2010, 05:50 PM
I am torn.....TORN I tell you!!

On one hand this guy is killing our one day game......but on the other.....he's fixing up our 'test' act....big time!!!

rubel_18
July 15, 2010, 06:00 PM
The problem is we are seeing some improvements in their batting and nothing really in bowling, to top that off we arent even trying to win these days its just personal achievements

dash
July 15, 2010, 06:33 PM
this guy doesnt have what it takes to become a head coah....but i still think he could be good batting coach

Naimul_Hd
July 15, 2010, 10:41 PM
We need a coach who is literally going to go into the dressing room and tell the boys, you need to win. I don't know how, but you are going to come back to me with a win. And if you don't win, next practice session, you're gonna work extra hard. And if you lose another game, same will happen. I know you guys have the ability, skill and minds to win a game of cricket, regardless of opposition, but if you walk into a field with your mindset fixed that you're gonna reach a certain total and do it nevertheless the position of where you're at in the game, then don't go and play. You're just gonna humiliate yourselves. I know that it isn't fair to compare our boys with the Australian XI but you ARE playing international cricket at the highest level. You NEED to bring positive results and with some more experience, you will start to win more and more games.
- Good Coach

i wish it could happen ! but did u forget what happen in our Football and Hockey lately ? All the players went to strike...the only reason was Coach was pressurizing them to work harder and in the process, all the players were losing strength before matches and also getting injuries. Rajoni, Biplob even boycotted few training sessions. what a lame excuse was that !! and mind you, our cricketers have more power than our footballers/hockey players.

Imteaz
July 15, 2010, 10:53 PM
Why our players got over confident so early?

al Furqaan
July 16, 2010, 12:32 AM
i'm still going to say that we're in a funk right now.

just 6 months ago, riyad and naeem were carting all and sundry out the park as bangladesh took modest starts of say 170-4 in 40 overs into 260-7 at innings end. good starts of 200-3 would become 280 or 290 or even threaten 300.

these were not good performances, but were par performances.

naeem is not in teh squad, riyad is totally out of form...hence good starts, which given our close-outs above would have yielded 280-320 totals, are bringing us 230-250.

tamim hasn't fired except for in one innings in our last 7 ODIs, dating back to the asia cup. shakib totally out of form, till the last game...and no one else to real step on it, although we've seen solid innings from Junaid and Rock.

bowlers very inconsisten, with mash being the only proven guy u can count on.

we just have to suck it up and hope we can win today...otherwise, this will be a very disastrous tour, despite the england win - which was no fluke btw, we "won" and "lost" that game many times, before finally closing it out. played out of our skins? hell yeah, but a fluke win it was NOT.

al-Sagar
July 16, 2010, 12:45 AM
so yesterday was a big prove that to win games a team performance is needed.

junaid got a major PERSONAL achievement ..... 100, thanks SIDDONS
shakib got a minor PERSONAL Achievemnet ..... 50, small thanks Siddons

but BD only scored 235 what seems to be a 280-300 pitch, sorry siddons, more than those SHAKIB and JUNAID achievements we needed a good team achievement

TAMIM with all that talent and all that agression could not get a achievement playing his natural game. but the likes of Stirling, Portefield ...... with 50% talent of tamim played match winning knocks by virtue of professionalism, plan and perfect execution. SORRY SIDDONS.

thanks for developping players like tamim junaid imrul shakib who can score centuries

and the bowlers...... sorry siddons, though u are a batting coach u are first of all a cricketer....... u must have at least this knowledge to ask bowlers what line and length to bowl. and some strategies about field placing and others

sorry siddons sorry

thanks for developping players like tamim junaid imrul shakib who can score centuries

but sorry as u havent created a team who can score match winning scores or scores that can be competitive more frequently

Rifat
July 16, 2010, 04:03 AM
there is one more thing i must say:

kudos to BC member "theBest" bhai.. :bravo: i believe 2 YEARS AGO. he said:

"siddons is a charlatan...bhua coach, just takes a vacation every month, he doesn't really work with the team that much"

at that moment, I couldn't fathom the meaning behind the statements of this brother, today i do...:)

I believe he is the First BC member to see through Siddon's real face!!! the first official member of "Anti-Siddons" Campaign!

Beamer
July 16, 2010, 10:00 AM
So, it's all Tamim's fault. I have heard someone publicly put pressure on Tamim saying that BD has only chance of winning when Tamim scores 150 and bla bla..

What a wonderful way by a so called genius coach to put pressure on your best batsman and undermine the rest. Bravado.om

Wrong understanding again. The dependency I mentioned, which has become a fact in ODI's for us, is complementary towards Tamim and far far away from laying blame on his foot as you understand it. Tamim's fast start, if applied to BD context, is no different than the platform set by the likes of Gilchrist, Jayasuriya, Gayle, Anwar, Ganguly-Tendulkar for their respective teams of the past. With one important caveat though- those teams had players who consistently took advantage of the platform provided, but for us, our middle- lower middle order is not able to consistently take advantage of simmilar situation.

You are fond of saying, 'read before you post'. I can say the same thing, though reading is easy, undertsanding it, may not be.

nahaz
July 16, 2010, 10:22 AM
om

Wrong understanding again. The dependency I mentioned, which has become a fact in ODI's for us, is complementary towards Tamim and far far away from laying blame on his foot as you understand it. Tamim's fast start, if applied to BD context, is no different than the platform set by the likes of Gilchrist, Jayasuriya, Gayle, Anwar, Ganguly-Tendulkar for their respective teams of the past. With one important caveat though- those teams had players who consistently took advantage of the platform provided, but for us, our middle- lower middle order is not able to consistently take advantage of simmilar situation.



It reflects really poorly on Siddons for him to even suggest the team should depend on one batsman to win, otherwise we should just give up. It was ashraful in 2003-06. Back then we did not haveany other world class batsman (admit it!!), yet Whatmore did not say anything like onceAshraful gets out, there's no point in us chasing a score. Siddons does, and that reflects really poorly on him. Batting coach my foot...if he was, we'd have scored 250 plus with same consistency now and England and South Africa, and we'd have learned to chase scores at least upto 300 against any team. With a lot less talent and resources, Whatmore's tiny achievements still seem increasingly unsurmountable by Jamie Siddons and his squad.

auntu
July 16, 2010, 02:37 PM
http://tigercricket.com/pdf/tn_291009.pdf

Looks like no one dropped any CV whats so ever. The deadline passed and heard no updates on this so far. Except a appointing a temporary bowling coach in the ENG ODI series and Lota's claim of Jounty as a fielding coach for two weeks.

reyme
July 16, 2010, 05:22 PM
I believe he is the First BC member to see through Siddon's real face!!! the first official member of "Anti-Siddons" Campaign!

I believe it was me.

reyme
July 16, 2010, 05:23 PM
Good response Nahaz.

reyme
July 16, 2010, 05:33 PM
Shaad bhai, regardless of our match position, we take our powerplay from 45 overs. This is scripted in stone. Regardless of opposition strength, we aim to score 240. Regardless of oppositon strength, we never try to chase 300 plus score. Reagrdless of the results, our players are happy to tell electronic/print media that we are playing good cricket . No desire to win, no fighting mentaility. Too easily satisfied despite countless losses. These are only few permanent changes that Siddons has brought to the Bangladesh team.

I have tried in many ways, he doesn't even believe that we should play for win against G8 nations. What can you do?

Top post!

reyme
July 16, 2010, 05:36 PM
Greenidge, Whatmore, Siddons will come and go... but condition of Bangladesh cricket will never improve. We are exactly in the same standard as we were in 1999 Worldcup.

I think the fans writing analysis and counter analysis are simply wasting their time. We should just accept that we have a mediocare team that shocks everyone once in a blue moon, we just need to celebrate that day like a WorldCup win and move on..

Sounds like Jamie Siddons.

reyme
July 16, 2010, 05:58 PM
Zeeshan, that's fine. But tell us what the remaining batsmen should have done in today's match, when both Tamim and Imrul were out for 5 each, and Jaharul for 3, leaving us largely bereft of our top order at 28/3.

You are not dead, until you really are.

So you (coach) give up after losing 1 (Tamim) or 3 wickets! And you want to be a coach! Just get the *ell out of my sight. Give this team to Maradonna! Yes Maradonna as a cricket coach who probabaly never saw a game of cricket. He will do better after 3 months. You know why? He works like a dog. He wakes up 7 am and starts watching the videos of opponents, analyzes them, finds the strengths and weakneeses both for his team and the oppositions, prepares gameplans, strategy. He picks up his playing 11 (or top 24) out of best 100.

Being a test team coach is not easy. It takes hard work, dedication, talent and experinence. An ideal coach would instill the fire cracking confidence among each and every player, so much so that forget 1,3, or 5, even after losing 9 wickets, the last 2 bowlers would continue to think, we can still win. Remember Rafiq in 20/20 or Ziaur Rahman, they won matches after losing like 8 or 9 wickets with run rate of 10+.

Can Jamie's team do that? No they cant. As soon as he took over the team, he termed our previous wins as fluke and thought at that time (post Dav) we had team that cant compete at the top level. After 3 years, he is still thinks the same way and continue to give excuses as our lack of capability to compete at the top level as an excuse. This is what happens when your coach is JS. He has no talent and capability to be a head coach. This is what happens when all you care is to make money and take advantage of the situation. This is what happens when you go for an extended vacation before and after of each series. This is what happens when you dont care or simply incapable of coaching to build a team.

shaad
July 16, 2010, 10:07 PM
You are not dead, until you really are.

So you (coach) give up after losing 1 (Tamim) or 3 wickets! And you want to be a coach! Just get the *ell out of my sight. Give this team to Maradonna! Yes Maradonna as a cricket coach who probabaly never saw a game of cricket. He will do better after 3 months. You know why? He works like a dog. He wakes up 7 am and starts watching the videos of opponents, analyzes them, finds the strengths and weakneeses both for his team and the oppositions, prepares gameplans, strategy. He picks up his playing 11 (or top 24) out of best 100.

Being a test team coach is not easy. It takes hard work, dedication, talent and experinence. An ideal coach would instill the fire cracking confidence among each and every player, so much so that forget 1,3, or 5, even after losing 9 wickets, the last 2 bowlers would continue to think, we can still win. Remember Rafiq in 20/20 or Ziaur Rahman, they won matches after losing like 8 or 9 wickets with run rate of 10+.

Can Jamie's team do that? No they cant. As soon as he took over the team, he termed our previous wins as fluke and thought at that time (post Dav) we had team that cant compete at the top level. After 3 years, he is still thinks the same way and continue to give excuses as our lack of capability to compete at the top level as an excuse. This is what happens when your coach is JS. He has no talent and capability to be a head coach. This is what happens when all you care is to make money and take advantage of the situation. This is what happens when you go for an extended vacation before and after of each series. This is what happens when you dont care or simply incapable of coaching to build a team.

reyme,

If you are going to respond to a question that I had asked Zeeshan, perhaps you wouldn't mind actually answering that specific question instead of indulging in a lengthy harangue about the perceived shortcomings of Siddons. My question was quite simple: given the position we were in in the first ODI against Ireland, i.e. Tamim, Imrul, and Jaharul gone (the players rightly or wrongly we depend on to set up our initial platform), how would you, as a coach, have made the other players bat? Would you, for instance, have made Junaid try to accelerate? What about Shakib, Riyad, Goboy, again keeping in mind that our middle order has been a tad off-form of late? I am not discounting the value of confidence; but I also prefer to see confidence anchored in reality, as opposed to the type of blind arrogance which results in say, three fours in succession, followed by a simple catch.

I think you and several other members are posting rather emotional-laden pieces about why Siddons either is or isn't a terrible choice as coach. And that is your prerogative. I, however, am interested in constructive and non-nebulous critiques and suggestions about what should be done on the pitch, in specific situations, not essays comparing Siddons to Maradona.

BANFAN
July 17, 2010, 02:35 AM
He won't give up. BCB must sack him. Even a local coach will do better than him.

Even He knows that he won't get a job if he leaves BD. :)

BANFAN
July 17, 2010, 02:45 AM
and the bowlers...... sorry siddons, though u are a batting coach u are first of all a cricketer....... u must have at least this knowledge to ask bowlers what line and length to bowl. and some strategies about field placing and others

sorry siddons sorry

...................

What was that ? isn't that absolute nonsense? Who told you that he is a batting coach? Or did you ammend his appointment? He is the 'Head Coach' for your information.

Bhaijan, Toilo mordon koren / shohag koren, that's your private matter, but without changing his official responsibility please.

mafizraju
July 17, 2010, 04:30 AM
He won't give up. BCB must sack him. Even a local coach will do better than him.


that is very far fetched. i thought you had clear idea of BD cricket. to claim a local coach is better than siddons is bit ignorant. unless, obviously, you are trying to give the head coach job to Sujon...

Miraz
July 17, 2010, 10:03 AM
that is very far fetched. i thought you had clear idea of BD cricket. to claim a local coach is better than siddons is bit ignorant. unless, obviously, you are trying to give the head coach job to Sujon...

I have a very clear idea about Bangladesh cricket and I really do believe that either Sujon or Bulbul will do better than what Siddons is doing right at the moment. At least they won't accept defeat so easily and can't do worse than Siddons record with Bangladesh team.

It will be terribly difficult for any coach to do worse than Siddons with the current bunch of players. 1-25 against top international teams is very difficult to beat.

auntu
July 17, 2010, 10:49 AM
^^^ Sorry but can't agree Shujon or Bulbul would be a better coach than JS. But I would be happy to be proven wrong by them. :)

Miraz
July 17, 2010, 11:35 AM
It is the desire to win that has kept him going through the toughest of times. He loves to win matches, he loves to perform well. He doesn't want to take five or 10 wickets and lose a match. He wants to win that match and every match. He is a winner.

That should be the mentaility in international sports and this is why they became champion.

Our boys get content with even 2--3 wickets, 30-40 runs and the chorus starts "we are playing well". Unfortunate.

I hope our boys have a session or two with Murali to get the mindset right.

mafizraju
July 17, 2010, 01:40 PM
I have a very clear idea about Bangladesh cricket and I really do believe that either Sujon or Bulbul will do better than what Siddons is doing right at the moment. At least they won't accept defeat so easily and can't do worse than Siddons record with Bangladesh team.

It will be terribly difficult for any coach to do worse than Siddons with the current bunch of players. 1-25 against top international teams is very difficult to beat.

approach does not make a team champion, neither does severe hunger for win makes one team better than the other. Attitude, hunger, spirit do have their places in sports, for surely. These qualities can make up up to so much of deficiencies, ultimately it is the ability that determines the winner. surely between two equal teams in ability, one with better spirit or hunger will win.

And I believe you will agree that for Bangladesh Team the real problem is in the ability. (Surely, I am repeating siddons a bit, but that remains the truth). Our team might have huge potential, and as a team we lack in skill. This is not very hard to see. For a moment I have ever doubted that cricketers play to loose. Our bowlers simply lack the ability to pitch the ball in right places consistently. Mash does not have great out swinger, enthusiasm or hunger wont cover the deficiency, will it? So goes for the batsmen..

This is precisely where a coach who can improve the skill comes in. Bulbul was a good, well great batsman in bangldesh context. In world stage he was nobody. Nannu was more technically sound than Bulbul. Sujon was nobody even in Bangladesh context in terms ability. But he has overcome those deficiency with passion in Bangladesh standard. Sujon was nobody in world game, absolutely nobody. Both are my all time favourite. They simply do not have the skill set to give it to others. Your teacher has to be good enough for you to be better.

And Siddons is leaps and bounds better both from sujon and bulbul in terms of the cricketing knowledge and technical details that he is able to help out Bangladesh.

My whole argument is based upon the assuption, and a fact according to me, that the key area we lack is the skill, not the enthusiasm or passion. I am not sure how you can disagree about this!!

Miraz
July 17, 2010, 01:47 PM
.....................They simply do not have the skill set to give it to others. Your teacher has to be good enough for you to be better.

...
That's a very poor logic. There are thousands of coaches in international sports (in every game, cricket, football, tennis.. you can name the next) where the coaches have much less ability than the players. Coaching is a technique and you don't have to have the ability to teach a skill to a player.

John Buchanan, Jose Morinho... sounds familiar? They can only dream to have the skills or ability of the players they guided to glory.

_Rafi_
July 17, 2010, 01:54 PM
Why all the blames on Siddons? The selectors making blunder after blunder but they are still not questioned. BCB is not appointing must needed bowling and fielding coaches and still getting away from all those blames. How many test coach have to deal with a test team without having an analyst, bowling/fielding coaches atm? Even Zimbabwe have more coaching staffs than us i think.
And is it Siddons wrong that Mash got injured and missed our toughest schedule in years, Rajjak adopting an ineffective bowling action, Playing with a so called super talented player who is not competent to play in any under-10 side and many more. I want equality in blaming.

mafizraju
July 17, 2010, 01:56 PM
That's a very poor logic. There are thousands of coaches in international sports (in every game, cricket, football, tennis.. you can name the next) where the coaches have much less ability than the players. Coaching is a technique and you don't have to have the ability to teach a skill to a player.

John Buchanan, Jose Morinho... sounds familiar? They can only dream to have the skills or ability of the players they guided to glory.

If you re-read my post,I have never said that the coaches have to be better, but they do need to have certain standard. In any way, John Buchanan, or Jose Morinho had a group of players to coach who did not have many things to learn but rather to fine tune and build team spirit and tactical details and so on. Certainly you are not thinking Bangladesh team has abilities like the Aussies and the team is under performing due to lack of spirit !!

Miraz
July 17, 2010, 02:01 PM
Rafi, we do have bowling coach and fielding coach. There was never a period when did not have an analyst, bowling coach or fielding coach. In some cases we had to resort to temporary coaches due to contract expiry of coaches for eg. bowling coach after Ramanayeke.

Equinox
July 17, 2010, 02:04 PM
If you re-read my post,I have never said that the coaches have to be better, but they do need to have certain standard. In any way, John Buchanan, or Jose Morinho had a group of players to coach who did not have many things to learn but rather to fine tune and build team spirit and tactical details and so on. Certainly you are not thinking Bangladesh team has abilities like the Aussies and the team is under performing due to lack of spirit !!
That is a very important issue you have raised
http://www.cricinfo.com/db/PICTURES/CMS/119200/119235.jpg
^Here is a guy who has played FC cricket for 10 years. And yet he is having to fix technical issues which should have been addressed during his school days. This is why we need Siddons. Some of these guys lack proper coaching. A motivator would be great for 2-3 ODI wins a year but it would not save us from being battered in Test cricket.

_Rafi_
July 17, 2010, 02:08 PM
Rafi, we do have bowling coach and fielding coach. There was never a period when did not have an analyst, bowling coach or fielding coach. In some cases we had to resort to temporary coaches due to contract expiry of coaches for eg. bowling coach after Ramanayeke.

Ramanayeke actually made our bowling worse...he ruined our most promising pacer's career. Salahuddin was never a good fielding coach.

Miraz
July 17, 2010, 02:25 PM
Ramanayeke actually made our bowling worse...he ruined our most promising pacer's career. Salahuddin was never a good fielding coach.

On the contrary, I personally believe Salahuddin is an excellent coach and most of the national team memebr will agree with me.

Ramanayeke had a glorius CV, he simply failed with us for some inexplicable reason.

mafizraju
July 17, 2010, 03:45 PM
On the contrary, I personally believe Salahuddin is an excellent coach and most of the national team memebr will agree with me.

Ramanayeke had a glorius CV, he simply failed with us for some inexplicable reason.

I will agree with you on Salahuddin. he is in deed an excellent choice as an assistant coach. I am not so sure about Ramanayeke.

The appointment I am most unsure about is the appointment of Sujon. If we need to change a staff, I think it should be Sujon. I am unable to see his value in the team.

We surely need a fulltime bowling coach, (and btw, Champaka was the only full time bowling coach we had in last three years, he was there only for some odd year at max). And we need one assistant batting coach as well. I have no problem if this assistant is Nannu. But we never the less need one. I would prefer another aussie or english or south african in this role as well.

mafizraju
July 17, 2010, 03:53 PM
That is a very important issue you have raised
http://www.cricinfo.com/db/PICTURES/CMS/119200/119235.jpg
^Here is a guy who has played FC cricket for 10 years. And yet he is having to fix technical issues which should have been addressed during his school days. This is why we need Siddons. Some of these guys lack proper coaching. A motivator would be great for 2-3 ODI wins a year but it would not save us from being battered in Test cricket.

Precisely that is the point. If these players had the coaching they deserved or needed to compete in world level day in and day out (I acknowledge the great work McInnes did), then we would have needed a good manager and tactically brilliant coach. Even John Bucanan had a huge support team including special batting coach. And that was for mighty Australia!

International cricket is tough. And our structure is bad. Siddons, even if he is the greatest batting coach of all time, may help us get result in 4 years time for next 5 years on. But when the lot he has coached are gone we will have no body to turn to unless "the next group of players are better than shakib, mashrafee and tamim". We need upcoming players who are better than Shakib, Mash and tamim are at this stage, if we want to be the number one team of the world in 15-20 years. Are we doing enough to have that? --- that should be the question we need to ask..

Miraz
July 17, 2010, 03:58 PM
What we really need is a head coach. Siddons can be a very good batting coach if relieved off his head coach duty. He is simply clueless as head coach.

Siddons - batting coach
Salahuddin - fielding coach
Venkatesh Prasad/Some one else - Bowling coach

and someone like Tom Moody/Steve Waugh/Kepler Wessels who are known for inpiration and fighting spirt as head coach.

This would be a near perfect coaching staff scenario for Bangladesh.

Tiger444
July 17, 2010, 04:37 PM
What we really need is a head coach. Siddons can be a very good batting coach if relieved off his head coach duty. He is simply clueless as head coach.

Siddons - batting coach
Salahuddin - fielding coach
Venkatesh Prasad/Some one else - Bowling coach

and someone like Tom Moody/Steve Waugh/Kepler Wessels who are known for inpiration and fighting spirt as head coach.

This would be a near perfect coaching staff scenario for Bangladesh.

I would really love that combo that you listed there but the big question is would Siddons accept being a batting coach? That means he would have to take a pay cut which I doubt he will do..I doubt he wants to be demoted to being a batting coach..either he stays on as head coach or take him out completely in my opinion..if we ask him to be a batting coach then don't you think he would rather work with Australia or some other strong test playing country?

Tiger444
July 17, 2010, 04:47 PM
I have a very clear idea about Bangladesh cricket and I really do believe that either Sujon or Bulbul will do better than what Siddons is doing right at the moment. At least they won't accept defeat so easily and can't do worse than Siddons record with Bangladesh team.

It will be terribly difficult for any coach to do worse than Siddons with the current bunch of players. 1-25 against top international teams is very difficult to beat.

Miraz bahi, I actually totally forgot but there was an article of Sujon with Andrew Miller and he says that Siddons may be here for another year or 2 and then he wants to take over as the coach..any news of that? It may seem a bad idea but Pakistan did something similar when they got rid of Geoff Lawson and hired a local guy..I thought Pakistan didn't do so bad after that..they actually won the T20 WC after that..Sujon could be a good motivator with the boys and could be a good strategist since he was a captain of our team at 1 time..I'm not saying I want this but as ridiculous as it may sound it might not be a bad idea..here's the article by the way..

http://www.cricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/451215.html

Beamer
July 17, 2010, 05:08 PM
Siddons won't take the pay cut. Either he stays as a head coach, or he will leave. In an ideal world, I would like him to be my batting coach for national and academy team, and my head coach will be Shane Warne! Problem is with Warne, if you think Siddons is bad with media and too blunt about certain truth which is better to be left alone, then Warne is going to be ten times worse. If left up to me ( I am the CEO )and we had a ton of cash to spare :
Head coach : Shane Warne
Batting : Siddons
Fielding : Gus logie, Jonty Rhodes, Roger Harper
Bowling : Troy Cooley , Alan Donald.

Murad
July 17, 2010, 10:15 PM
On the contrary, I personally believe Salahuddin is an excellent coach and most of the national team memebr will agree with me.

Ramanayeke had a glorius CV, he simply failed with us for some inexplicable reason.

Salauddin might be a good mentoring coach as almost all the players said so. Our fielding didn't improve under his coaching.

BCB did the right thing to get rid of him as fielding coach.

SS
July 17, 2010, 10:46 PM
What we really need is a head coach. Siddons can be a very good batting coach if relieved off his head coach duty. He is simply clueless as head coach.

Siddons - batting coach
Salahuddin - fielding coach
Venkatesh Prasad/Some one else - Bowling coach

and someone like Tom Moody/Steve Waugh/Kepler Wessels who are known for inpiration and fighting spirt as head coach.

This would be a near perfect coaching staff scenario for Bangladesh.

Good point but can BCB afford them as they are using most of the money for some unknown purpose

bujhee kom
July 17, 2010, 11:30 PM
Hello bhais! Kemon cholche? Thik ache chalie jaan! Salaam!

magic boy
July 17, 2010, 11:59 PM
Head Coach:Shane Warne/Shourov Ganguly/Steve Waugh
Batting Coach:Jamie Siddons
Bowling Coach:Troy Cooley
Fielding Coach:Jonty Rhodes
Asst Coach: Aminul Islam Bulbul
Physio: Alex Kountouris
Head Selector: David Boon
sub Selector : Minhajul Abedin Nannu/Khaled Masud
money money money money money money
Lotus Kamal ICC President
money money money money money money
Tamim Iqbal
Imrul Kayes
Zunaed Siddique
Raqibul Hasan
Shakib al Hasan
Mushfiqur Rahim
Jahurul/Riyadh/Naeem
Alrounder(medium pace+hard hitting batting)
Mashrafee bin Murtaza(c)
Shafiul Islam
Abdur Razzak Raz
extra:Mohammad Ashraful

3....2....1....Camera!.........Action!!


News: Bangladesh lost by 6 wicket against Ireland 2011!

BANFAN
July 18, 2010, 12:28 AM
............
The appointment I am most unsure about is the appointment of Sujon. If we need to change a staff, I think it should be Sujon. I am unable to see his value in the team.

..................

If you revisit the time, when Sujon joined the team. We were at all times low in moral and defeatist attitude was vissible in the team. We saw remarkable changes immediately after he joined. There is a BC thread appreciating Sujon as well. Since then he had been working quiet silently. Haven't heard anything bad about him, neither he ever talked negative about any team memebr. So I guess he is helping to buffer and eliminate a lot of negative vibes being created by JS noises. Otherwise, it could have been worse. He is playing an important role but off course his effectiveness is subjected to the window offered by the head coach.

auntu
July 18, 2010, 01:47 AM
That is a very important issue you have raised
http://www.cricinfo.com/db/PICTURES/CMS/119200/119235.jpg
^Here is a guy who has played FC cricket for 10 years. And yet he is having to fix technical issues which should have been addressed during his school days. This is why we need Siddons. Some of these guys lack proper coaching. A motivator would be great for 2-3 ODI wins a year but it would not save us from being battered in Test cricket.
Couldn't agree more. This is the actual scenario.

Imteaz
July 18, 2010, 02:02 AM
Siddons er kichu ashe jai na. Beta thik e tar quota puron kore bari jabe. Amra ar ekta notun kauke khuje niobo. 2 din pore pochondo hobe na than or against e thread khulte shuru korbo. :)

al-Sagar
July 18, 2010, 02:07 AM
What was that ? isn't that absolute nonsense? Who told you that he is a batting coach? Or did you ammend his appointment? He is the 'Head Coach' for your information.

Bhaijan, Toilo mordon koren / shohag koren, that's your private matter, but without changing his official responsibility please.

in meant to say batting specialist ....

yes, he is head coach, but he mainly takes care of batting as we have other ppl to take care of other things. thats why some ppl say we cant blame siddons for our erratic bowling.

but as he is our head coach, although batting specialist, still he has to put some thing for the bowlers. and as a cricketer every player must have this knowledge to bowl what line or length. so he certainly has that knowledge and ask the bowlers to so. may be he wont be able to fix the runup, actions and grips of bowlers but he can tell them to bowl what sort of line and lenght.

al-Sagar
July 18, 2010, 02:20 AM
That is a very important issue you have raised
http://www.cricinfo.com/db/PICTURES/CMS/119200/119235.jpg
^Here is a guy who has played FC cricket for 10 years. And yet he is having to fix technical issues which should have been addressed during his school days. This is why we need Siddons. Some of these guys lack proper coaching. A motivator would be great for 2-3 ODI wins a year but it would not save us from being battered in Test cricket.

really nice to see siddons doing this to faisal. he does it to all batsman for sure.

BUT i would have loved to see him doing this to the likes of... Shuvagoto, Shabbir, Asif, Tasamul, mominul ...... etc

BANFAN
July 18, 2010, 03:41 AM
in meant to say batting specialist ....

yes, he is head coach, but he mainly takes care of batting as we have other ppl to take care of other things. thats why some ppl say we cant blame siddons for our erratic bowling.

but as he is our head coach, although batting specialist, still he has to put some thing for the bowlers. and as a cricketer every player must have this knowledge to bowl what line or length. so he certainly has that knowledge and ask the bowlers to so. may be he wont be able to fix the runup, actions and grips of bowlers but he can tell them to bowl what sort of line and lenght.

Thanks, got your point. Infact it is quiet annoying at this point to see anyone trying to save him of his responsibility by just calling him a batting coach. My point is. if one has to call him only a batting coach, he must agree to fire him from th ehead coach position. Thanks anyway.

MohammedC
July 18, 2010, 03:57 AM
http://sport.scotsman.com/cricket/Interview-Jamie-Siddons-Bangladesh-cricket.6425945.jp?

Interview published in Scotsman.
<br />Posted via BC Mobile Edition (iPhone)

shakibrulz
July 18, 2010, 04:53 AM
That is a very important issue you have raised
http://www.cricinfo.com/db/PICTURES/CMS/119200/119235.jpg
^Here is a guy who has played FC cricket for 10 years. And yet he is having to fix technical issues which should have been addressed during his school days. This is why we need Siddons. Some of these guys lack proper coaching. A motivator would be great for 2-3 ODI wins a year but it would not save us from being battered in Test cricket.

You took words outta my mouth Equinox. Class is permanent, form is temporary. This he what he does, he improves their technical skills, brings some class into the team. Obviously he ain't flawless, he has his share of flaws, but still the Siddons bashing that goes on here is way too much. Heck, even I am not a fan of Siddons, but still I feel the whining's gone way OTT as if he's just robbing BCB for doing nothing. :doh:

BANFAN
July 18, 2010, 04:54 AM
A year back, he was showing his improvement pointing at Shakib and now he points at Tamim.

He has almost established to many that winning is not the sign of improvement for us, so relentless defeats are not signs of deterioration. He again says that he doesn't want one off victories.. :) I don;t know why the hell he was so happy for that victory against England? Was it a part of consistant result?

"Onahare Nahi Khed, Beshi Khele Bare Med" ????

BANFAN
July 18, 2010, 05:47 AM
You took words outta my mouth Equinox. Class is permanent, form is temporary. This he what he does, he improves their technical skills, brings some class into the team. Obviously he ain't flawless, he has his share of flaws, but still the Siddons bashing that goes on here is way too much. Heck, even I am not a fan of Siddons, but still I feel the whining's gone way OTT as if he's just robbing BCB for doing nothing. :doh:

We haven't seen a picture of a coach posted here in this manner in the past, but we have seen the technical development of our players from pre 2000 era and the post era. It is so much vissible.

Unfortunately we have to post a stunt to make people believe that some one is working. While net result is 0.

Brikho tomar nam ki? Fole porichoy. ;) F

shakibrulz
July 18, 2010, 05:57 AM
We haven't seen a picture of a coach posted here in this manner in the past, but we have seen the technical development of our players from pre 2000 era and the post era. It is so much vissible.

Unfortunately we have to post a stunt to make people believe that some one is working. While net result is 0.
Technical development pre and post 2000 era? EXCUSE ME? I think I was watchin some other team, obviously not BD. From Tamim to Shakib, now everyone is fairly technically sound, not just sloggers like Ash. If you think Siddon's was just eating Samosas and Rasagollas, while players developed these skills themselves, let's better stop it here. :doh:

Brikho tomar nam ki? Fole porichoy. ;)

English please. :-D

al-Sagar
July 18, 2010, 06:17 AM
Brikho tomar nam ki? Fole porichoy. ;)

English please. :-D

its a poem.

poet asks to a tree: whats ur name ???
the tree answers: i dont have any name or identification. i am named or identified by my FRUIT

summary: u figure out ..... .....

Ajfar
July 18, 2010, 08:09 AM
BanFan bhai you dont like siddon as a head coach good I agree. But you dont want to give him any credit for even a little bit of credit for developing some of the batsmans?? Im pretty sure alot of people in your we hate siddon crew wont agree with you on this.

Please list a few batsmans name whos technical problems was fixed by our coaches in the past. And that player stuck around for a long time to serve our team?
<br />Posted via BC Mobile Edition (iPhone)

shakibrulz
July 18, 2010, 08:21 AM
its a poem.

poet asks to a tree: whats ur name ???
the tree answers: i dont have any name or identification. i am named or identified by my FRUIT

summary: u figure out ..... .....

:D Fine.. Gotcha /:)

Eshen
July 18, 2010, 10:51 AM
That is a very important issue you have raised
http://www.cricinfo.com/db/PICTURES/CMS/119200/119235.jpg
^Here is a guy who has played FC cricket for 10 years. And yet he is having to fix technical issues which should have been addressed during his school days. This is why we need Siddons. Some of these guys lack proper coaching.
Yes, Faisal grew up without proper coaching, last thing you should expect to see is him playing his shots according to copybook. But it's nothing but moronic trying to fix his batting at this late stage of his career.

One of the key reasons why Whatmore was so successful with Lanka team was that he did not try to change unorthodox styles of different players, but he figured out strategies to make best use of them. Unfortunately, when it comes to Siddons, the guy has no clue whatsoever how to figure out an effective strategy based on players that he has.

shakibrulz
July 18, 2010, 11:11 AM
Yes, Faisal grew up with proper coaching, last thing you should expect to see is him playing his shots according to copybook. But it's nothing but moronic trying to fix his batting at this late stage of his career.

One of the key reasons why Whatmore was so successful with Lanka team was that he did not try to change unorthodox styles of different players, but he figured out strategies to make best use of them. Unfortunately, when it comes to Siddons, the guy has no clue whatsoever how to figure out an effective strategy based on players that he has.

Dude, unorthodox batting techniques is one thing, but we're talking about flawed technique here. It's bizzare to claim that Siddons is forcing them to change their unorthodox technique, if they were effective.

And if Whatmore was so magical, why didn't Mr. Messiah Whatmore lead the team to more victories effectively utilizing their unorthodox techniques?

Now the batsmen are way more consistent, when did we have any consistency in the batting lineup? And these are still young, they're just getting better with time, not one day wonder sloggers like Ash.

M.H.Rubel
July 18, 2010, 12:01 PM
Yes, Faisal grew up with proper coaching, last thing you should expect to see is him playing his shots according to copybook. But it's nothing but moronic trying to fix his batting at this late stage of his career.

One of the key reasons why Whatmore was so successful with Lanka team was that he did not try to change unorthodox styles of different players, but he figured out strategies to make best use of them. Unfortunately, when it comes to Siddons, the guy has no clue whatsoever how to figure out an effective strategy based on players that he has.

Yes this is a very important issue.You dont have too time to learn too many technique in the national team just minor adjustments can be done specially if you are above 25.
When Dave was the coach of SRI they have their domestic structure and local coaches who showed them the technique in school or academy level.So few players can come to scene with indecent technique.
But it is our failure we have failed to produce adequate coaches who can produce technically sound cricketers in school or academy level.So Shamsur Rahman or Faisal Dickens or Uttam Sarkar type players come to national team.
So my impression is unless we can produce quality local coaches it will be tough for up to compete in highest level.
If national coaches are busy with showing technique then result will be zero.
<br />Posted via BC Mobile Edition

Miraz
July 18, 2010, 12:16 PM
The importance of technique is overstated in international cricket. There are many successful players who does not have a decent technique but are very successful at top level. Collingwood and Dhoni can be two prime examples. Their shot sometimes look ugly but they are real fighters and became top players despite having technical deficiencies.

What Siddons is trying is no way right for a national team because he is compromising with the team gol and keeping win loss out of the equation. He should be an ideal academy coach. If Siddons is such a good mentor of batsmen then why Shakib has such a gaping hole in technique? Why Riyad still looks clueless against swinging off-stump deliveries? Siddons cited Shakib as success of his approach, why Shakib can't recently buy even a 20 against a decent bowling attack?

People criticise Ramanayeke for destroying Shahadat as he tried to make basic changes to his technique, but Siddons seems to be immune from such criticism despite unsuccessfully trying too many changes in technique of players like Aftab and Ashraful.

At top level the players have do the adjustment to succeed and they have to take the initiative, not the other way round. A head coach should try to make a winning outfit out of the available players. Siddons is not doing justice to the head coach position and his approach is comepletely flawed.

People blame Whatmore for not developing Ash into a consistent performer, Siddons has managed to destroy him by trying to make too many changes to his game. Even Siddons does not know what he wants from Ashraful. Now he is putting all the pressure on Tamim, while others are deteriorating (Riyad, Shakib, Mushy, Naeem) after a brief period of success, Siddons hasn't done anything yet to prevent the rot.

yaseer
July 18, 2010, 10:14 PM
.......
while others are deteriorating (Riyad, Shakib, Mushy, Naeem) after a brief period of success, Siddons hasn't done anything yet to prevent the rot.....

Agreed on your points about Siddons ++

deteriorating after a brief period of success is a common phenomenon in our cricket.

Nafis Iqbal, Hannan Sarkar, Shahriar Nafees, Alok Kapali, Aftab, Tapash Baisya and many more.......all had a brief period of success. Now they are almost gone even though they should have been our cream players now.

This is one of the biggest concerns for us as we are loosing generations of players early without proper utilization. This is not a problem of coaches, this is a problem for our whole system. We are just not able to develop a promising young player. BCB just does not have a vision or just have no clue how to develop a young player who has shown some promise in international level.

Just see how Australia is developing Steven Smith as a leg spinner from out of nothing.

We are loosing generation of young players for the last 10 years. If BCB does not wake up, learn from the last 10 years and take actions, it will repeat for another decade.

Next in line is Ashraful, Nayeem, Riyad, Junaid, Imrul, Zahurul, Rubel
Next Nasir, Mithun, Shuvogoto, Shamsur, Shohrawardy, Shafiul and so on........

Dhruvo
July 18, 2010, 10:53 PM
Said this before but I'll say it again, despite making our team a bit better at batting, Jamie Siddons has failed to teach our players how to put each of their abilities together to create a winning situation for the team. The primary objective for every game we play is to improve the individual statistics of our players, not to win. That hurts a team that is so young. If a team is built with a negative vibe around it, it never does well. What we need is someone that can keep our players motivated. I appreciate the help he provided to our batsmen, but I think its time for BCB to let him go and appoint a real head coach.

MatinSux
July 18, 2010, 11:39 PM
I have a very clear idea about Bangladesh cricket and I really do believe that either Sujon or Bulbul will do better than what Siddons is doing right at the moment. At least they won't accept defeat so easily and can't do worse than Siddons record with Bangladesh team.

It will be terribly difficult for any coach to do worse than Siddons with the current bunch of players. 1-25 against top international teams is very difficult to beat.
Up till this point I did not mind your criticism of Siddions at all, and in fact I thought it was justified to certain extent. However, let me now say this loud and clear: you must be out of your mind to suggest something like that. Seriously Sujon?

Do you want a motivator or a coach? Suppose Bangladesh football takes on Brazil. How much do you think your motivation type of speech will take them against a team like Brazil? A 10-0 defeat at best maybe? Do you now understand what I am trying to say? Bangladesh does not need motivation speeches at this point they need to be coached basic cricketing techniques which they lack. I can explain more later, but I think you got the idea.

I would wholeheartedly accept your campaign to criticize JS, but I won't accept is your heinous campaign to replace Siddions with a local like Sujon.

MatinSux
July 18, 2010, 11:45 PM
...Certainly you are not thinking Bangladesh team has abilities like the Aussies and the team is under performing due to lack of spirit !!
Great catch. Thats more or less his point.

Zeeshan
July 19, 2010, 12:00 AM
Bangladesh does not need motivation speeches at this point they need to be coached basic cricketing techniques which they lack.

No one is prescribing a pep talk here. So stop belittling the inculcation of winning mentality as "motivation speech." Btw your leering reminds me of that nvkd dude. One can mindlessly drill in technique under the sun but lack of energy and firepower makes the difference between a win and a loss. And since when did technique and inspiration became mutually exclusive? It's really not that hard to multitask or juggle two things at once in your brain. Try it you may be surprised.

shakibrulz
July 19, 2010, 12:33 AM
The importance of technique is overstated in international cricket. There are many successful players who does not have a decent technique but are very successful at top level. Collingwood and Dhoni can be two prime examples. Their shot sometimes look ugly but they are real fighters and became top players despite having technical deficiencies.


Miraz Bhai, I think you're again confusing with an unorthodox technique and flawed technique. A batsman could succeed with unorthodox technique, but not with a flawed one. Again I think Chanderpaul is better example than Colly, his technique is the most unorthodox IMO.

But it's a delight to watch orthodox players playing sweetly timed drives than these guys with unorthodox technique. That's just a personal opinion. ;)

MatinSux
July 19, 2010, 12:34 AM
No one is prescribing a pep talk here. So stop belittling the inculcation of winning mentality as "motivation speech." Btw your leering reminds me of that nvkd dude. One can mindlessly drill in technique under the sun but lack of energy and firepower makes the difference between a win and a loss. And since when did technique and inspiration became mutually exclusive? It's really not that hard to multitask or juggle two things at once in your brain. Try it you may be surprised.
Sure Im not gonna disagree much of what you've said. But answer the question how much of your pep talk "Jago Bangladesh" will do against a Brazillian football team? However, a great pep talk would certainly help oh say the English team against the Brazillians.

BANFAN
July 19, 2010, 12:44 AM
Up till this point I did not mind your criticism of Siddions at all, and in fact I thought it was justified to certain extent. However, let me now say this loud and clear: you must be out of your mind to suggest something like that. Seriously Sujon?

Do you want a motivator or a coach? Suppose Bangladesh football takes on Brazil. How much do you think your motivation type of speech will take them against a team like Brazil? A 10-0 defeat at best maybe? Do you now understand what I am trying to say? Bangladesh does not need motivation speeches at this point they need to be coached basic cricketing techniques which they lack. I can explain more later, but I think you got the idea.

I would wholeheartedly accept your campaign to criticize JS, but I won't accept is your heinous campaign to replace Siddions with a local like Sujon.

Matin really sux, dude, do you have any idea about motivation? How can you even teach/coach people if he is not motivated for the purpose? And if the purpose of all the hard work is to score 200 and lose the match, where does the motivation to put in your best work comes from?

Talk about war or pursuing knowledge or skill building, you can't be successful in anyone, without a proper motivation. I don't like to lecture on motivation, just do some thinking and study on the subject before you pass such comment. The difference between a mediocre and and outstanding performer is the x factor. That comes through motivation. And motivation is a part & parcel of any activity, something you can't do without.

Hey man, how suggesting a local coach is heinous act? You must be out of your rmind. The amount of technical and strategic errors JS has done in last 2.8 years, I'm sure a local coach/layperson wouldn't have done 25% of it. Forget about what sujon would have done, I'm more bothered about damage control, I'm sure he wouldn't have done the damages JS has already done. And Sujon is an example, it could be any local coach instead of JS. If we have a foreign coach at that expense, we must get someone who will stand out with his performance in comparison to locals. He clearly is compareable to our local coaches in his abilities and bellow them in causing damage due to ill motivation, wrong policies etc

BANFAN
July 19, 2010, 12:55 AM
Sure Im not gonna disagree much of what you've said. But answer the question how much of your pep talk "Jago Bangladesh" will do against a Brazillian football team? However, a great pep talk would certainly help oh say the English team against the Brazillians.

You knowledge of motivation is only limited to Jago bangladesh. So now I understand your reasons for undermining the effects of motivation. It may get too complicated for you to take a lesson on motivation.

MatinSux
July 19, 2010, 01:40 AM
Matin really sux, dude, do you have any idea about motivation? How can you even teach/coach people if he is not motivated for the purpose? And if the purpose of all the hard work is to score 200 and lose the match, where does the motivation to put in your best work comes from?
You are not understanding me. I am not saying that a coach shouldn't motivate his group of players; of course he should. Cricket is not an easy sport to master, which is why it usually takes countries quite a time to win test matches. However, what I was saying is that you just can't take an English student and motivate him into becoming a nuclear physicist just like that or vice versa. It will lead to utter failures.

Talk about war or pursuing knowledge or skill building, you can't be successful in anyone, without a proper motivation. I don't like to lecture on motivation, just do some thinking and study on the subject before you pass such comment. The difference between a mediocre and and outstanding performer is the x factor. That comes through motivation. And motivation is a part & parcel of any activity, something you can't do without.
Of course one can never be successful without proper motivation and desire for success and thats why I've said that Miraz's criticism of JS was justified to some extent. But pep talk's such as fight with churi/lathi against warplane and gunship will only lead to utter failure/fluke win or in the case of war death of millions. And thats where I am differing with you, not the idea of motivation.

Hey man, how suggesting a local coach is heinous act? You must be out of your rmind. The amount of technical and strategic errors JS has done in last 2.8 years, I'm sure a local coach/layperson wouldn't have done 25% of it. Forget about what sujon would have done, I'm more bothered about damage control, I'm sure he wouldn't have done the damages JS has already done. And Sujon is an example, it could be any local coach instead of JS. If we have a foreign coach at that expense, we must get someone who will stand out with his performance in comparison to locals. He clearly is compareable to our local coaches in his abilities and bellow them in causing damage due to ill motivation, wrong policies etc
you come on dude. What damage control? Prior to JS, Bangladesh managed only fluke wins in ODIs despite utter failures in many attempts, would hardly last full three days in test matches and went on to embarrass themselves with nightwatman scoring what a double or a triple, I forgot. So what damage control are you exactly talking about man? You mean you're really mad that JS wasn't able to compete with Whatmore's flukes?
Just take a look at your local commentator such as Zafarullah Sarafat. I've actually never seen him(only heard about him) till a week ago with his ever so wonderful take on Holland vs Spain. The dude is clueless about any sporting arena and yet goes on national TV and blabbers his way through.

deshprem
July 19, 2010, 01:57 AM
u can only teach instill so much motivation. in the end it must come from urself. ur own desires.

n u can be as motivated as u want to be....but in the end if u dnt have the knowledge n skills to succeed n bak up that motivation....ur only going to get so far.

cricket is 99% perspiration, 1% inspiration. ...or maybe its the other way round ;)

beshideshi
July 19, 2010, 02:14 AM
The importance of technique is overstated in international cricket. There are many successful players who does not have a decent technique but are very successful at top level. Collingwood and Dhoni can be two prime examples. Their shot sometimes look ugly but they are real fighters and became top players despite having technical deficiencies.

.

I apologize for poking my nose, but successful international batsmen with proper technique outweighs successful batsmen with unorthodox technique by some number, even in this era of T20 revolution. Dhoni is a prime example of a batsman with improper technique prospering in international cricket, C'Paul, Gayle, Trescothic could be other example. But if you have a look at most of the technically weak batsmen, their weakness are often exploited by the opponent hence shortening their stay at the top level.
Of course there are exceptions of technically weak batsmen enjoying success throughout their career, but in the long run a batsman with proper technique is expected to outclass a batsman with improper technique 9 out of 10 times.

BANFAN
July 19, 2010, 02:17 AM
..............
you come on dude. What damage control? Prior to JS, Bangladesh managed only fluke wins in ODIs despite utter failures in many attempts.............

And this year we had only one fluke win in 25 attempts ... despite the previous players maturing more, despite receiving more technically sound players, despite bowlers with genuine pace etc etc ...

with 0 coaching, a motivated group of the same 11 has the ability to register more wins (Fluke or not) ...

In cricket, even Aus can be beaten by a lesser team with 100 runs margin. India can get out suddenly in 150. That can happen when you always play for wins, even in impossible situations. Our way of playing for 200+ to lose the match and trying to interpret it positively, is insane. When you start playing for win after JS era, you will keep seeing more bad losses, because they haven't learnt to play for win in difficult situation. Just because, as you said, it will be like appearing a histiry exam afetr studying literature for three years.

Playing to make 200+ like a loser and making 170 while chasing to win, makes a lots of difference in the lesson, learning, mindset, ability and purpose etc etc..

Miraz
July 19, 2010, 04:52 AM
Up till this point I did not mind your criticism of Siddions at all, and in fact I thought it was justified to certain extent. However, let me now say this loud and clear: you must be out of your mind to suggest something like that. Seriously Sujon?

Do you want a motivator or a coach? Suppose Bangladesh football takes on Brazil. How much do you think your motivation type of speech will take them against a team like Brazil? A 10-0 defeat at best maybe? Do you now understand what I am trying to say? Bangladesh does not need motivation speeches at this point they need to be coached basic cricketing techniques which they lack. I can explain more later, but I think you got the idea.

I would wholeheartedly accept your campaign to criticize JS, but I won't accept is your heinous campaign to replace Siddions with a local like Sujon.

You failed to understand my post my friend. I am not trying to replace Siddons by any local coach, i was just highlighting the level of failure of Siddons. No coach with decent experience can do worse than what Siddons has done, this was the core message. 1-25 is a record that is vefry difficult to beat. :)

Alchemist
July 19, 2010, 09:04 AM
Siddons is a loser. You should never let a loser to lead (read demoralize) your best guys. Some people are just not getting it.

shakibrulz
July 19, 2010, 09:15 AM
You failed to understand my post my friend. I am not trying to replace Siddons by any local coach, i was just highlighting the level of failure of Siddons. No coach with decent experience can do worse than what Siddons has done, this was the core message. 1-25 is a record that is vefry difficult to beat. :)

How many of those 25 were against non G8 nations? Do you honestly think any 'decent' coach would've done better than that? :doh:

Miraz
July 19, 2010, 09:31 AM
How many of those 25 were against non G8 nations? Do you honestly think any 'decent' coach would've done better than that? :doh:

Yap, I know the boys and I honestly think any decent coach would have done better.

Raynman
July 19, 2010, 09:32 AM
How many of those 25 were against non G8 nations? Do you honestly think any 'decent' coach would've done better than that? :doh:

Rewind back to Jan 1, 2010.

BD had taken the 1st of an ODI series against NZ and had good start in the 2nd. They beat SL by bonus points and took SL to the limits in a final. There were sparks in tests vs. both NZ and SL. WI (albeit a 2nd string) was whitewashed and ZIM had been defeated twice 4-1 with BD showing fight and comebacks not expected and never before seen in our cricketing history (Tamim's century to offset Coventry's record, losing 1st match at home and coming back, Naeem's heroics, Shakib's 60 ball century).

So the expectation was coming from results I give Siddons credit for.

At this point (you can review the posts) EVERYBODY expected quite a few wins for BD in 2010. There has been moments this year but the obvious thing missing is the killer instinct and the desire/belief to win (things that were evident in the 2007 WC wins and the Cadriff win and the T20 WC win vs. WI as well as 2009.)

So now to go 2-25 which includes losses to IRE, whitewash to an ENG team in BD with key players missing, a whitewash to NZ (whom we should be chasing along with WI and PAK), failure to capitalize on key situations, YES it is disappointing.

Even the two wins came from bowling strengths which prior to the wins the pro-Siddons camp has been quick to distance themselves from and blame for all the other losses. We went from a firm #9 who WI, PAK and NZ need to to look out for to becoming a REALISTIC target for ZIM and IRE. If ZIM can secure important unexpected wins as can IRE (vs. us) why is it unreasonable to expect and demand the same from Bangladesh.

The biggest problem I have is that this guy and everyone supporting him doesn't mind losing. Its one thing to say we need to tweak things to get the wins that could/should be coming our ways but to flat out defend the the losses as acceptable and expected and defend a coach that holds that as his mission statement is just Greek to me.

Beamer
July 19, 2010, 10:35 AM
Not true Raynman! Winning is the ultimate goal. I am not content with losing. Nobody here is. Do I wish we won a lot more ODI games and some tests? Yes. Players want that, coaches want that, and all fans want that. There would be no point in coming here and talk about ways to improve matters in our own ways if we want losses.

Raynman
July 19, 2010, 10:51 AM
Not true Raynman! Winning is the ultimate goal. I am not content with losing. Nobody here is. Do I wish we won a lot more ODI games and some tests? Yes. Players want that, coaches want that, and all fans want that. There would be no point in coming here and talk about ways to improve matters in our own ways if we want losses.

So how do you go on defending JS when he himself has taken Winning off of the board?

Don't you believe that building a group of winners is more than just improving individual techniques? Do you see that quality in Siddons as a head coach?

I'm not calling for us to re-pursue Whatmore but I do miss his approach to winning even with the resources he had available at that time. I still got upset with the loss at the WC to Ireland and his public petition to leave us for India.

But why is Siddons so untouchable when it comes to criticism. You can defend his test batting improvement all you want, but cricket consists of batting (both individually and in partnerships), bowling, Keeping, Fielding and its not just limited to one format alone.

Here is somebody who doesn't respect T20 at all (which is the format of the future and one area where we had to start off on a equal footing with but now are already years behind), he doesn't understand PP and the modern aspect of the ODI games and even his test approach (rather only approach) is to save tests by blocking and dot balls.

al Furqaan
July 19, 2010, 10:56 AM
Rewind back to Jan 1, 2010.

BD had taken the 1st of an ODI series against NZ and had good start in the 2nd. They beat SL by bonus points and took SL to the limits in a final. There were sparks in tests vs. both NZ and SL. WI (albeit a 2nd string) was whitewashed and ZIM had been defeated twice 4-1 with BD showing fight and comebacks not expected and never before seen in our cricketing history (Tamim's century to offset Coventry's record, losing 1st match at home and coming back, Naeem's heroics, Shakib's 60 ball century).

So the expectation was coming from results I give Siddons credit for.


agreed


At this point (you can review the posts) EVERYBODY expected quite a few wins for BD in 2010. There has been moments this year but the obvious thing missing is the killer instinct and the desire/belief to win (things that were evident in the 2007 WC wins and the Cadriff win and the T20 WC win vs. WI as well as 2009.)

well, the bristol win was a watershed moment for us. even if its a long while before it happens again. that was the first win not only overseas, but also where we made "comebacks". and numerous ones. it was our first "anti-choke" job, after pulling nothing but chokes for all of our history.

cardiff was a game we won due to an Eid al Ashraf, plus the usual tight bowling from mash. yes the desire/belief to win was there, because if it wasn't we couldn't have chased with the RRR reaching 7 and even 8 an over. but this was not the same situation as bristol, a match where we gained and lost control of proceedings several times, before finally get the big scalp.

2007 world cup wins were again, rather one-sided affairs if not for the entire match (SA game) for large parts of it. bristol was a game that was just much closer. a true nail-biter.



If ZIM can secure important unexpected wins as can IRE (vs. us) why is it unreasonable to expect and demand the same from Bangladesh.

its not unreasonable...we do expect to do well. but right now, for some reason the bowling is not clicking consistently...hence with better batting we are still not winning often.

The biggest problem I have is that this guy and everyone supporting him doesn't mind losing. Its one thing to say we need to tweak things to get the wins that could/should be coming our ways but to flat out defend the the losses as acceptable and expected and defend a coach that holds that as his mission statement is just Greek to me.

i used to think siddons was the perfect coach. i too don't like the fact that he sometimes undermines the importance of players not named tamim, and comes down harshly on the pace bowlers. but at the same time, he's at least partially right. junaid has come a long way, but he and imrul are probably not going to lead us in a chase of 400. i don't think any other coach would have differed here.

but at the same time, siddons' effect on our test team, where we are looking like becoming something decent in the not so distant future is important. and as others have said, his effect will continue long after he's been gone. his ODI record hasn't been too good, but his Test improvements are unquestionable.

Beamer
July 19, 2010, 11:06 AM
So how do you go on defending JS when he himself has taken Winning off of the board?

Don't you believe that building a group of winners is more than just improving individual techniques? Do you see that quality in Siddons as a head coach?

I'm not calling for us to re-pursue Whatmore but I do miss his approach to winning even with the resources he had available at that time. I still got upset with the loss at the WC to Ireland and his public petition to leave us for India.

But why is Siddons so untouchable when it comes to criticism. You can defend his test batting improvement all you want, but cricket consists of batting (both individually and in partnerships), bowling, Keeping, Fielding and its not just limited to one format alone.

Here is somebody who doesn't respect T20 at all (which is the format of the future and one area where we had to start off on a equal footing with but now are already years behind), he doesn't understand PP and the modern aspect of the ODI games and even his test approach (rather only approach) is to save tests by blocking and dot balls.

Nobody is untouchable. I give plenty of criticism towards Siddons ( you have dig through ) with his lack of ODI and T20 acumen. He is not flexible with his order and selection of players in wrong spots is bothersome to me. I consistently say it.

Winning off the board ! Thats assumption and speculation. I seriously doubt he goes in the dressing room the morning of a match and says, " Boys, lets lose today "! If you can quote any player, manager, asst coach etc to come out on record and back up those words, then he has to go, right now.

Lets not focus on shorter version only.

Raynman
July 19, 2010, 11:09 AM
but at the same time, siddons' effect on our test team, where we are looking like becoming something decent in the not so distant future is important. and as others have said, his effect will continue long after he's been gone. his ODI record hasn't been too good, but his Test improvements are unquestionable.

I would use the term 'debatable'.

But as I pointed in the thread prior to my response to Beamer, BD cricket is just more than test batting. ODI and T20 are the lion share of our work load.

As a head coach, when you attribute the batting successes to him in tests, you must also attribute the limited overs batting failures and the bowling failures (even if the smallest part) to him. The bowlers enter the field with a maximum of 80% solid overs even before a ball is bowled. Add in a bad day by a bowler or two and its curtains for the team to begin with. Look at how much drops/misses Mushy has had but his 'batting' has secured his spot and hurt the bowlers. I can only imagine Shakib's avg. and wickets if he had a good keeper backing him up.

Why do the bowlers (Nazmul, rasel, Robin, Rubel, Shafiul, Razzak, Shuvo etc.) have to follow the revolving door policy when Ash, Junaed, Imrul, Mushy, Riyad are allowed to take as long is needed to score that good innings. Why isn't Shafiul a permanent fixture when he is the only bowler to have 2 4-fors in ODIs. Why isn't Shahadat a permanent fixture in Tests with his 5-for? Its the inconsistancy and favoritism to the batsmen that infuriates me to the way Siddons is running the team.

Raynman
July 19, 2010, 11:11 AM
Nobody is untouchable. I give plenty of criticism towards Siddons ( you have dig through ) with his lack of ODI and T20 acumen. He is not flexible with his order and selection of players in wrong spots is bothersome to me. I consistently say it.

Winning off the board ! Thats assumption and speculation. I seriously doubt he goes in the dressing room the morning of a match and says, " Boys, lets lose today "! If you can quote any player, manager, asst coach etc to come out on record and back up those words, then he has to go, right now.

Lets not focus on shorter version only.

You say lets not focus on the shorter version only yet you want us to focus on the longer version only and Batting only not bowling either :-/

His press conferences aren't enough where he defends HIS strategy for Junaed/Imrul for the mockery against Pakistan? He himself publicly has said that his measure should not be in winning. What more do you need, a tweet saying 'I, Jamie Siddons am here to make a losing nation out of Bangladesh.' ?

Beamer
July 19, 2010, 11:15 AM
In a nutshell my take :

Post WC 2003- Whatmore was the best hire, but he couldn't develop any single young player who would carry us through in both versions of the game. His last years or so it became very apparent.

Post Whatmore- Siddons was the best hire. Because, relatively younger generation under Whatmore couldn't deliver, older experienced players were gone, and ICL exodus took away even more. He got a brand new core, that he almost picked, and they are delivering ( would we like more? yes ) upon being taught foundation and improved technique. This core is the future and since he has molded them, I would like to see them getting better under his tutelage for another two years. I think in two years we will see the finished product since he started with scratch.

That is my opinion. I am sticking to it. I seriously don't want to look back at Whatmore era anymore.

Beamer
July 19, 2010, 11:18 AM
Not in a mood to fight today or for months Raynman. You have your thoughts and I have mine. Lets just keep it that way..

Miraz
July 19, 2010, 11:19 AM
Even in his latest interview with Scotsman he publicly stated that he does not consider win/loss as measures of success. He has said it numerous times in different print/electronic media including the interviews taken by me and published on cricinfo.

His personal improvment theory and 240ish batting target setting approaches are flawed and will never take us over the rope.

At first Siddons must recognise win/loss is what matters in international cricket and try to build a winning outfit (or least a squad that has the hunger and approach to win games) out of the available players. I am afraid we won't see that change of heart from him and real success (in terms of win) at international level will remain elusive for our boys.

Beamer
July 19, 2010, 11:22 AM
Miraz, How are you doing? You can answer me directly using my quotes !

Miraz
July 19, 2010, 11:25 AM
What should be considered as delivering? What exactly Siddons and his boys are delivering at the moment? I really cannot understand how people can be so much content with the countless losses expecting one day they will eventually win when the entire mindset is negative? It just does not add up.

lamisa
July 19, 2010, 11:29 AM
miraz bhai since u are so cosely in touch with our playrs,did u ever ask them what they think of our coach?

Miraz
July 19, 2010, 11:34 AM
miraz bhai since u are so cosely in touch with our playrs,did u ever ask them what they think of our coach?

I know their views but can't share it here. It's a mixed bag.

Raynman
July 19, 2010, 11:36 AM
Not in a mood to fight today or for months Raynman. You have your thoughts and I have mine. Lets just keep it that way..

Thats cool. I'll talk you in a few months I suppose :)

Beamer
July 19, 2010, 01:03 PM
Sounds good : )

WarWolf
July 19, 2010, 01:30 PM
So what is the conclusion?

Raynman
July 19, 2010, 01:38 PM
So what is the conclusion?

Both Beamer and I agree that under his term there have been notable improvements in Test Batting but his understanding and coaching of limited overs Suck. His term has also seen anything not batting related to decline.

Based on the above, I believe he should be replaced and Beamer believes he deserves to carry on.