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View Full Version : Should this loss act as an eye opener for BCB and pro-Siddons camp?


Miraz
July 15, 2010, 11:07 AM
Today Ireland has shown the difference between a winning mentality and a losing mentality.

We are getting comprehensively beaten by a side that believes they can win and played positive cricket. On the other hand Siddons has turned Bangladesh into a side that doesn't have the right attitude and approach towards a game.

I do not believe Ireland cricketers are better than our lot, you can compare player by player and I am sure our lot will be head and shoulder above them, but Phil Simmons successfully instilled the belief and temperament and turned them into a winning outfit. This is where Siddons miserably failed. He failed to create a team and instill belief in them. He trashed out some illogical approach like team rules, 240 target, personal achievement and this is the result. He does not even believe in win/loss as a parameter to judge the progress of a team. He will be satisfied with the 100 of Junaid and 50 of Shakib, Phil Simmons will be satisfied with the win.

Siddons must go otherwise more embarassing defeats are on the way.

Dilscoop
July 15, 2010, 11:10 AM
I doubt these people will ever understand. They are just happy that the players are getting 100s day in day out. And that is their main argument. "JS DONE MANY THINGS TO OUR BATSMEN!" They dont even realize what he has done to the team..and how negative and loser mentality he set up for the team.

@ Miraz, you had to write an article on CI for rest of the world. Because they don't about this JS. I think it's little too late to do that.

wasi90lkv1
July 15, 2010, 11:17 AM
i am still a pro-siddons.

coach does not play in the field, players do.

if we keep playing players like imrul kayes and mahmudullah riad, we are bound to score less than 250 runs (which is simply not enough in international cricket, maybe enough in club cricket).

our bowlers are simply bad.

SS
July 15, 2010, 11:20 AM
Coach matters a lot...if you look at all professional games a successful team needs a very good coach...there are teams which will never win they have coaches too..but that's the main difference they can not win...we really need to find a suitable guide for our pathetic players

Raynman
July 15, 2010, 11:22 AM
Miraz bhai,

Even after this match you will have better luck of having Siddons admit he is a failure as a coach than you will of convincing his followers.

wasi90lkv1
July 15, 2010, 11:24 AM
Coach matters a lot...if you look at all professional games a successful team needs a very good coach...there are teams which will never win they have coaches too..but that's the main difference they can not win...we really need to find a suitable guide for our pathetic players

i think siddons did his job. he turned nobodies like junaid siddique, tamim iqbal and a few others into somewhat good batsmen.

we just need to get rid of batsmen that waste balls and replace them with better batsmen.

i do not think we should play 3 seamers at any point. 2 seamers and 3 spinners should always play.

Tiger444
July 15, 2010, 11:24 AM
Today Ireland has shown the difference between a winning mentality and a losing mentality.

We are getting comprehensively beaten by a side that believes they can win and played positive cricket. On the other hand Siddons has turned Bangladesh into a side that doesn't have the right attitude and approach towards a game.

I do not believe Ireland cricketers are better than our lot, you can compare player by player and I am sure our lot will be head and shoulder above them, but Phil Simmons successfully instilled the belief and temperament and turned them into a winning outfit. This is where Siddons miserably failed. He failed to create a team and instill belief in them. He trashed out some illogical approach like team rules, 240 target, personal achievement and this is the result. He does not even believe in win/loss as a parameter to judge the progress of a team. He will be satisfied with the 100 of Junaid and 50 of Shakib, Phil Simmons will be satisfied with the win.

Siddons must go otherwise more embarassing defeats are on the way.

I don't think Ireland is as talented but they are way way more organized..the way they play their cricket the last time I saw them I was impressed..not only that but they consistently win against teams that are lower then them..now could we do that? I'm actually doubting it now..on top of that you see how many of their cricketers play their cricket in England? Probably half their team and how many of our cricketers play in England? We recently just got 1..I know Ireland is close to England but surely we could send our players to England..after all these years why couldn't BCB hire agents for these players? They don't realize how bad our domestic setup is? Also I don't see our domestic cricket improving..if they really want the players to stay in BD then improve the setup..their not doing either..of course Siddons should not be cut slack here..look at the way Simmons built this outfit..their confident and play their style of cricket and what do we do? We are afraid to hit the damn ball now..

Dilscoop
July 15, 2010, 11:25 AM
Funny now the pros are using Imrul in a bad way to back JS up. Even 2 days ago, Imrul was their main argument to show how good JS is. How JS transfered him into a *STAR*

Ok please stop with this Pros-Anti. Why are we grouping? We are fighting against each other just because we can. It's not about you guys, it's about BD cricket. And it's in danger. We all should realize that and drop this Mofo. I feel Pros are just arguing because they just want to argue. Just for the sake of it, even though they knows, JS is not the right guy.

Dilscoop
July 15, 2010, 11:29 AM
i think siddons did his job. he turned nobodies like junaid siddique, tamim iqbal and a few others into somewhat good batsmen.

AGAIN! You guys! please STOP using that as a counter argument. "Personal achievement" "Made players" "Turned players around". These dont ****ing matter when a team is losing to an ASSOS. TEAM! Their players got 100's too. And they also won the game. What are you suppose to do with JS's 100? When we can't play as a team and win? None of the guys performed together, you know why? Because Jamie Siddons failed to build a team! Bits and piece wont help!

MohammedC
July 15, 2010, 11:30 AM
I as pro-Siddons today became anti-Siddons. But I strongly believe our players mentality will never change even if we hire the best coach in the world.

From today I am just well wisher of Bangladesh Cricket like always.
<br />Posted via BC Mobile Edition (iPhone)

MatinSux
July 15, 2010, 11:31 AM
Here is a question for you: what will be your excuse/reaction if we hire another coach and still loose to Ireland?

Dilscoop
July 15, 2010, 11:31 AM
Miraz bhai,

Even after this match you will have better luck of having Siddons admit he is a failure as a coach than you will of convincing his followers.

i know. They will still argue blindfold. Still, STILL use "personal improvements" as a counter argument. What else you got?

Like I said, stop arguing. You guys realize JS is not good. You guys arguing because you guys don't want to admit that we were right and you were wrong. Guess what? It aint about you. It's about our cricket. Is JS good for our cricket? NO. He gots to go!!

wiseshah
July 15, 2010, 11:32 AM
i changed my mind: siddons must go.

we need win, personal achievement is not more valuable than winning

wasi90lkv1
July 15, 2010, 11:34 AM
no coach can change bangladesh team.

players need to play for their country.

wiseshah
July 15, 2010, 11:35 AM
Here is a question for you: what will be your excuse/reaction if we hire another coach and still loose to Ireland?


that time will say.

some people dont believe in change, thats why two moron are in power of bangladesh.

if u fail to succeed, change whatever u need to change.

Dilscoop
July 15, 2010, 11:36 AM
I am 99% sure we wont play like this, if we have NO coach.

NO coach >>>>>>>>>> JS coach

bdtiger
July 15, 2010, 11:36 AM
We have changed so many coaches Mahinder Amarnath to J Siddons. But not getting any positive. Why? Because the problem is with us. We have to change BCB first. It needs to be reformed and good managers should be there. So why not we focus on main problem rather than changing coaches.

wiseshah
July 15, 2010, 11:37 AM
now i believe siddon has negative influence on bangladesh, nothing else.

sure-- he changed some players and they are ruined again. so whats the point.

we need some one who can inspire us to win. may be ganguly will be an ideal coach.

wasi90lkv1
July 15, 2010, 11:38 AM
We have changed so many coaches Mahinder Amarnath to J Siddons. But not getting any positive. Why? Because the problem is with us. We have to change BCB first. It needs to be reformed and good managers should be there. So why not we focus on main problem rather than changing coaches.

Imrul kayes is good player but not fit for ODI he is fit for test cricket , he is a defensive player but nowadays the odi playing style has changed , you need to keep you wicket as well as attack the bowlers, he just doesn't have the attacking mentality he will be very useful for test cricket.
but to replace him we need a consistent guy who is getting runs because imrul kayes is getting runs at least no matter what , if we replace him with another guy who gets out cheaply one match and 50 in one match and 10-13,14 etc.. it wont work out .
About Mahmudullah, he needs to get more runs .
ASHRA FOOOOOOOOLL should be dropped and kicked out, i really don't want him to play for BD Anymore he is hopeless , i don't want BCB to rely on him anymore.
RAkibul is a good replacement for him


two of my favorite posts.

al-Sagar
July 15, 2010, 11:41 AM
Today Ireland has shown the difference between a winning mentality and a losing mentality.

We are getting comprehensively beaten by a side that believes they can win and played positive cricket. On the other hand Siddons has turned Bangladesh into a side that doesn't have the right attitude and approach towards a game.

I do not believe Ireland cricketers are better than our lot, you can compare player by player and I am sure our lot will be head and shoulder above them, but Phil Simmons successfully instilled the belief and temperament and turned them into a winning outfit. This is where Siddons miserably failed. He failed to create a team and instill belief in them. He trashed out some illogical approach like team rules, 240 target, personal achievement and this is the result. He does not even believe in win/loss as a parameter to judge the progress of a team. He will be satisfied with the 100 of Junaid and 50 of Shakib, Phil Simmons will be satisfied with the win.

Siddons must go otherwise more embarassing defeats are on the way.

they should have opened their eyes earlier.

and now even after this if eyes dont open .... then i have doubt whether they have eyes or not

Baundule
July 15, 2010, 11:43 AM
I would have been happy to be wrong about Siddons, if we were winning regularly. But he has been continuing his successful streak of proving me right and the sooner he goes, the better for BD cricket.

al-Sagar
July 15, 2010, 11:43 AM
now i believe siddon has negative influence on bangladesh, nothing else.

sure-- he changed some players and they are ruined again. so whats the point.

we need some one who can inspire us to win. may be ganguly will be an ideal coach.

player wise there are upgrades and downgrades ......

but overall teamwise there are mainly downgrades in most aspect

Baundule
July 15, 2010, 11:45 AM
I as pro-Siddons today became anti-Siddons. But I strongly believe our players mentality will never change even if we hire the best coach in the world.

From today I am just well wisher of Bangladesh Cricket like always.

Posted via BC Mobile Edition (iPhone)

Should we have a 'convert' poll now? :D

Spitfire_x86
July 15, 2010, 12:17 PM
As flukey wins are all you guys care about, what's so bad about losing a single match against Ireland? We had our flukey win only few days ago. Is it the World Cup you are so worried about? There's nothing to worry. We managed not one, but two flukey wins in the last WC, only months after losing a 5 match away series against Zimbabwe (a team which was no better than this Ireland team).

shakibrulz
July 15, 2010, 12:21 PM
This was not a fluke, Irish tore our bowling apart, plus the ordinary batting sans Shakib and Siddique.

Yeah, I think it's time for a change.

Spitfire_x86
July 15, 2010, 12:25 PM
This was not a fluke, Irish tore our bowling apart, plus the ordinary batting sans Shakib and Siddique.
Nothing we haven't seen before (http://www.cricinfo.com/zimvbdesh/engine/current/match/249206.html)

Naimul_Hd
July 15, 2010, 12:33 PM
Siddons himself knows that his contract wont be renewed after the World Cup and BCB wont either sack him before the World Cup...so in the mean time, siddons got free ride and he is doing brainless things which ultimately hampering Bangladesh Cricket and World Cup campaign.

Keeping Siddons now cant help any more...whatever has done, has done. We really need to move on now...need to hire short term (6 mnths) basis Batting, Bowling and Fielding coaches for coming World Cup. otherwise, i cant see any change in strategy and performance within 6-8 months !

bujhee kom
July 15, 2010, 12:43 PM
I am shattered like William Shattner! I feel like I have been shat upon!
I am mute, speechless.....amar mookher bhasha aaj ora kere nieche!!

Beamer
July 15, 2010, 12:46 PM
No doubt a demoralizing, passionless, unworthy effort by the boys today. The manner and ease the Irish chased down the average total may go beyond the skills with bat and ball between two teams. This type of effort will surely get a coach fired. I am not suggesting that our players have actively done this with an eye toward reaching that goal. I would like to believe that as professionals with pride, and above all, representing our colors would outweigh heavily against entertaining such thoughts. However, as Miraz indicated a few days go from his bevy of inside info that he is privy to, a few assistants to the coach were contemplating resignation unless a change is brought forth at the top of the coaching tree. There is no doubt they don't have the players ears in their attempt to achieve that goal because players play for the country and not for any coach or assistant coaches. Unless of course some have done the unthinkable which I doubt very much. I have no reason to dispute Miraz's sources and info, but I am hoping he is wrong in this instance.

FagunerAgun
July 15, 2010, 12:49 PM
I doubt these people will ever understand. They are just happy that the players are getting 100s day in day out. And that is their main argument. "JS DONE MANY THINGS TO OUR BATSMEN!" They dont even realize what he has done to the team..and how negative and loser mentality he set up for the team.

@ Miraz, you had to write an article on CI for rest of the world. Because they don't about this JS. I think it's little too late to do that.
Well stated, Dilscoop. BCB is now one of the corrupted and incompetent organizations.

max410
July 15, 2010, 12:54 PM
STOP BLAMING SIDDONS don't you gusy feel ashamed of yourselves , when Gordon greenidge said we are not prepared for test cricket yet he gave an honest opinion his opinion counts because he is a knowledgeable cricketer , Look what is our outcome now winning against easy sides wont make u a good team specially after so many years , IT DOESN'T TAKE 10-13 YEARS TO LEARN CRICKET BASICS,LOOK AT AFGHANISTAN AND IRELAND THEY HAVE DEVELOPED QUICKLY SO FAST AND NOW WE ARE LAGGING BEHIND .
blaming the coaches wont help the players its not a logical solution .
Ireland played well they have beaten us they have very good chance of getting test status ,if they get it they deserve it

BCBLFC
July 15, 2010, 01:00 PM
Whilst Jamie Siddons has to take part of the blame - at the end of the day it comes down to the players. When they cross the boundary ropes there is nothing anyone else can do. The batsman choose which balls to play and which ones to leave. The bowlers on the pitch decide where to bowl. Whilst the coach is accountable, the players must take the blame. It is the inconcsistency of the players when they get onto the pitch. I am certain that JS is trying to prepare the team in the irght manner, and individually they are much improved however they must improve their concentration ni order to compete consistently in ODI's and in Test matches.

BCBLFC
July 15, 2010, 01:02 PM
The fundamental problem comes from the infrastructure in Bangladesh - unfortunately there aren't good enough bowlers coming through - yes we have Shakib and have had Rafique but we still have no Murali, Anil Kumble or Saqlain Mustaq. In terms of batting the talent is there but concentration and application is required and those are mental attributes.

Beamer
July 15, 2010, 01:08 PM
Whilst Jamie Siddons has to take part of the blame - at the end of the day it comes down to the players. When they cross the boundary ropes there is nothing anyone else can do. The batsman choose which balls to play and which ones to leave. The bowlers on the pitch decide where to bowl. Whilst the coach is accountable, the players must take the blame. It is the inconcsistency of the players when they get onto the pitch. I am certain that JS is trying to prepare the team in the irght manner, and individually they are much improved however they must improve their concentration ni order to compete consistently in ODI's and in Test matches.e

Well said and thanks for saying it. However, you must tread carefully if you want to mention anything regrading the much dreaded " individual improvement" as it will get you maligned, even though there is a sticky thread about Performance Monitor that keeps track of every 100's, 50's, 5 fers, milestones etc. Go Figure !

Miraz
July 15, 2010, 01:23 PM
People who think it's the players who perform and the coach has no role has never played a team sports at competitive level and doesn't have a clue about the role of coach in a team game.

Murad
July 15, 2010, 01:30 PM
Kisu shunte chai na. Kisu bujhte chai na

Just want to see this loser sacked!!

reyme
July 15, 2010, 01:33 PM
1. coach does not play in the field, players do.

2. if we keep playing players like imrul kayes and mahmudullah riad, we are bound to score less than 250 runs
3. our bowlers are simply bad.

1. Players dont grow on trees. Coache makes players, devlopes, trains. Coaches recuits, select and build a team. When all these are done properly a team is bound to perform.

2. It is the coach who selected the final 11. It is JS, that selected Imrul and Riyad. When these players performed, people jumped and said how JS had such a positive impact on these batsmen. As soon as they fail, it is batsmen failures.

If they are so unwanted, Why in 3 long years coach could not come up with better replacement or simply made them a better players? These players performed very well in domestics, they even delivered (Mushfiq, Riyad, Tamim, Shakib...) during Whatmore era, why all of a sudden they are all failing?

3. Again what has the coach done to make a better bowling unit? Not his area of expertise, then what is his specialty? Batting? Thats sucks now. Bowling, you said it. Fielding? There is a fielding coach. Head coaching? Lets not even go there.

Beamer
July 15, 2010, 01:38 PM
I certainly have never said that the coach has NO role ! It all depends how far in the progression/performance/professionalism chart that a team occupies, and based on that, a coach has a varied degree of task in his hand. For a well oiled machine like the Australia of last decade, or a Spain in football, coaching changes matter little. The Coach becomes a manager of people rather than a coach. The task for Siddons was to teach and develop ( coach ) a new breed of players following the retirement of the past generation and the ICl exodus of the others. Why is that critical aspect so ignored? You can argue that some may have not reached their potential, as is the case with players from every sport from every country, but on average, more of our newer players have or being developed rather than failing. Loss of form is a matter of truth for every cricketer, but the overall development over that time span of his tenure is clearly visible, unless of course blinders are kept in on purpose.

Miraz
July 15, 2010, 01:40 PM
What BS developement you are talking about mate? Development of losing mentality? Development of consistent losers? Yes, your coach is very successful in this. His success is unparallel and can never be matched at international level.

I don't see any constructive development during his time. Occasional brilliance with bat should not be considered as development. And most cases these batting successes are coming for losing causes.

reyme
July 15, 2010, 01:45 PM
The fundamental problem comes from the infrastructure in Bangladesh - Murali, Anil Kumble or Saqlain Mustaq. In terms of batting the talent is there but concentration and application is required and those are mental attributes.

How many team now has a Murali like player? What about Ireland? What do they have that we dont?

bujhee kom
July 15, 2010, 01:55 PM
What will happen to us now? What are we going to do guys?

Beamer
July 15, 2010, 01:57 PM
So, not partcipating in your mindless cause to fire the coach, or differing on your opinion is considered BS? Ok, then, please just say that you, Beamer or others just go away. I don't like your MO these days and as long I am allowed to stay here I will voice my opinion, even if its met by BS from your end. Your never ending threads on the same matter where you recyle and refurbish bascially two liners are in fact BS. Leaking dressing room rumors without substanciating any of it is called BS, or to take a step farther, a bit of treachery can be sniffed if one is willing to sniff it.

Zeeshan
July 15, 2010, 01:58 PM
I like the fact that people are avoiding quoting each other and speaking indirectly. Kinda like notun jamai-bou bepar shepar ar ki. :-D

bujhee kom
July 15, 2010, 02:00 PM
^^Hey Gpal da, where you been? Khoob hawa kheye dhawath kheye ghurey beraccho naki? What's going downna...huuhhh!!

Miraz
July 15, 2010, 02:03 PM
Beamer, I think you are taking it too far, resorting to ad hominem attack due to lack of logic.

I addressed you "mate" and termed the development made by Siddons as "BS". I didn't term your post as BS. I gues in blind love to Siddons, you didn't even read the post properly. Suits you.

Zeeshan
July 15, 2010, 02:07 PM
^^Hey Gpal da, where you been? Khoob hawa kheye dhawath kheye ghurey beraccho naki? What's going downna...huuhhh!!

Doing Irish drinking song and a 'hoedown'...

Beamer
July 15, 2010, 02:10 PM
Thats no attack on you, just disagreement with your 'view's and clear opposition to your 'method' of intention regarding the role you are playing to replace Siddons, supported and championed by you with claims of dissent coming from the locker room- Mate.

I have only blind love for one thing, and its not Siddons, I tell you that much! He will be gone one day, sooner than we think, but I see him doing some work that will pay off in the long run. I will remind you that in the future, but you will probably say that they are doing better since he has left.

Raynman
July 15, 2010, 02:13 PM
e

Well said and thanks for saying it. However, you must tread carefully if you want to mention anything regrading the much dreaded " individual improvement" as it will get you maligned, even though there is a sticky thread about Performance Monitor that keeps track of every 100's, 50's, 5 fers, milestones etc. Go Figure !

Not sure what you're getting at but I'll respond to this since that thread has me as the opener and I've been maintaining the first post since.

Whereas, you hold the individual performance as the diamond ring to your love affair with Jamie it is not so for the rest of us. It is important but NOT as important as other factors such as Win Loss and performance as a team (wickets taken, run rates for/against, follow ons etc.) and therefore, are listed after the team accomplishments.

Its funny how the majority (per the poll thread) say pro Siddons and you cry oppression by the anti Siddons crew. Your posts seem to have a familiar trend : Come out aggressive, take your swings then quickly cry victim and accuse others of being aggressive with you.

meazz1
July 15, 2010, 02:15 PM
The main culprit is the BCB for not picking the right coach. If this coach is clueless when comes to BD, why are we sticking with him for so long?
Losing to a team like Ireland, I blame the players. This should have been a easy win if it's true that we have test status for last 10 years. If we can't master it by now, no coach can help us.
Look at Zim or Afgan. they have the winning mentality when our players don not posses.
Players have to bear the same responsibility as the coach.
These knuckle heads don not use 20% of their mental capacity when they are in field.

pocha
July 15, 2010, 02:15 PM
Its wonderful to see the love and affection of some Pro-Siddons folks, hope they don't catch a flight and propose him (yea its legal nowadays!), anyway its a waste of time and space arguing with them - I think we will perform better even without a coach who is hell bound on taking us down the drain

Miraz
July 15, 2010, 02:15 PM
If your post #42 is not a personal attack, I do not know what constitutes a personal attack in an internet forum. :shrug:

I am sure the boys will play much better after the departure of Siddons. You are right on the money here.

Beamer
July 15, 2010, 02:17 PM
Diamond ring? Love affair? Cry victim? run away?..boy..I shouldn't dignify this with a response, but you need to stop watching soap operas.

Beamer
July 15, 2010, 02:20 PM
If your post #42 is not a personal attack, I do not know what constitutes a personal attack in an internet forum. :shrug:

I am sure the boys will play much better after the departure of Siddons. You are right on the money here.

Well..shrug back. Its pointless anyway. You go ahead and lead your campaign. I see you have got a few passengers on board. Good luck..

Zeeshan
July 15, 2010, 02:23 PM
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_7q9Qs_V7gaY/StWQxps8tVI/AAAAAAAAAIY/twF5LT78FSc/s400/pravs-j-hold-on-to-friendship.jpg

MatinSux
July 15, 2010, 02:38 PM
I believe fans should also take some blame. I mean some people actually thought that players were too tired from air travel which led to bad performance in Asia cup. Go figure!



He will be gone one day, sooner than we think, but I see him doing some work that will pay off in the long run. I will remind you that in the future, but you will probably say that they are doing better since he has left.
I agree completely!

GothamCity
July 15, 2010, 02:48 PM
Dada as coach ! I like the idea, at least he will speak in Bangla and everyone will be able to communicate.. but then when BD loses everyone will say Dada is India's Dalaal etc..
Ideally I'd like Wasim Akram as bowling coach..

Sub-continental cricket is dominated by politics. India was doing so well in the fast bowling department with Venkatesh Prasad as bowling coach, even Robin Singh improved the fielding, one bad series and they have were both sacked..

I don't know what to expect of BD anymore, they give me enough hope to keep hoping...


now i believe siddon has negative influence on bangladesh, nothing else.

sure-- he changed some players and they are ruined again. so whats the point.

we need some one who can inspire us to win. may be ganguly will be an ideal coach.

Tiger444
July 15, 2010, 03:06 PM
Guys seriously this is going waaaay 2 far..whats the point of all these personal attacks? We're all brothers here guys and I understand that losing these many games is never fun..trust me I know how losing is..it really is not easy..I actually was a member of my school team in basketball and we ended up 4-13..after that I didn't want 2 play and it seemed the right thing as the team ended up being 0-18..in my 4 years at my high school we went through 3 coaches in 4 years..the coaches made us work so hard that we would feel like collapsing after every practice..the coach prepared us the best he could but come game time we struggled with most teams due to a lack of talent..and because of that we ended getting so low in confidence and so did the coaches..I realized actually that it wasn;t the coaches really it was just that we had a lack of talent and also the coaches at age level teams were just dads that didn't really know how to coach..so when time came to play high school basketball we got pounded by teams that were way more disciplined and talented..this reminds me of BD cricket in my opinion..thought that I would share this with you guys..

Murad
July 15, 2010, 03:18 PM
We lost 3 ranking points today :(

Ireland gained 9 points somehow and now on 10th position.

alibangali
July 15, 2010, 03:36 PM
I did not follow this game today as i am too depressed to watch bd play with such cowardly mentality.
I had a bad feeling we were going to lose today but was horified by the margin. What was more horrorfying was the illogical (in my eyes) defense of JS.
Anyways i dont want to get to involved in this since its getting really heated but we should all remember that ultimately we are all well wishers of bd cricket but above all we are brothers/sisters.

Zeeshan
July 15, 2010, 04:03 PM
I did not follow this game today as i am too depressed to watch bd play with such cowardly mentality.
I had a bad feeling we were going to lose today but was horified by the margin. What was more horrorfying was the illogical (in my eyes) defense of JS.
Anyways i dont want to get to involved in this since its getting really heated but we should all remember that ultimately we are all well wishers of bd cricket but above all we are brothers/sisters.

Not blah and Nafi.

mafizraju
July 15, 2010, 04:57 PM
To Miraz Bhai:

I am not sure what are the source of your locker room leaks. Sure some of the coaching staffs may want to quit. But I do not see anybody but Khaled mahmud shujon doing that. the only other stuff would be the salahuddin who is in ad hoc basis at the moment and that is after siddons wanted him back. The only appointment siddons had problem with was shujon, and that appointment was, surely you will agree, was a bit of odd decision from BCB since it was taken without any consultation or clarification from the head coach.

Captaicy and Mashrafee issue was really a non issue, as HB said pretty much the same thing the other day as Siddons.

It is a sad loss, but I really do not see any clear reason for siddons to get fired. Yes I like siddons. this result is bad, but I really do not see why he should go?

Moreover what I do not understand is why are you so adamant about him leaving the job.

Certainly, you will agree, JS is a better teacher than Khaled mahmud Shujon.

cricket_pagol
July 15, 2010, 05:07 PM
Blame the inconsistency of the players on the coach!!!

zainab
July 15, 2010, 05:14 PM
If Bangladesh is not careful, Ireland and Zim will overtake them in the ODI rankings, and this will be shameful. I wonder what siddons will say then. IMO, he is ruining this team. they are better off without him, too much negativity.

deshprem
July 16, 2010, 12:03 AM
How many team now has a Murali like player? What about Ireland? What do they have that we dont?

they are organised
they learn from their english neighbours
they act as a collective unit for the better of their cricket. this includes board, players, staff.

in bd..its just the coaches..n players. 11 ppl that play full time cricket.

and also, how do u know that sidds piks final 11? wudnt captain have a say?

sacking the coach isnt going to do anything. like they say....charity begins at home. n in bd..no one cares for our cricket. theres no action to better it. but we all want results.

bujhee kom
July 16, 2010, 12:14 AM
I feel it's one of the darkest days in our history!

Baundule
July 16, 2010, 01:09 AM
We lost 3 ranking points today :(

Ireland gained 9 points somehow and now on 10th position.
The change is not significant enough to catch Bangladeshi eyes. You must have forgot that Juaned scored a century.

al-Sagar
July 16, 2010, 01:09 AM
People who think it's the players who perform and the coach has no role has never played a team sports at competitive level and doesn't have a clue about the role of coach in a team game.

exactly.

11 players have 11 minds tuned at 11 notes.

the coach has to combine all those minds as complete package so the team plays as one MIND and have the same GOAL

shakibrulz
July 16, 2010, 01:12 AM
Kick Siddons out ASAP. Though I think Anti siddons gang here sometimes go a bit OTT, that's no excuse to support him, no more of him for gods sake.

al-Sagar
July 16, 2010, 01:27 AM
I feel it's one of the darkest days in our history!

for me it was the DARKEST cricketing day in my mind in last 6-7 months.

all those losses againt india, SL, NZ, ENG, WC T20, again ENG, ASIA CUP, again ENG never made me this UPSET.

in all those games we had lots of good INDIVIDUAL performances. very good COMPETITIVE scores, excellent fielding and bowling displays amidst of some big collapses, STUPID cluster of throwing wickets, very awful bowling, nonsense captaincy, and blunders at tosses. and also some UMPIRING howlers to be mentioned.

But in those performances i saw some small improvements here and there though we rarely got them together.

we were competitive sometimes, got very close to wins and some times we got humiliated big time.

but thought that we still are far away from the BIG boys and thats why we are not been able to win.

BUT i expected when we play these associates or county sides we will show that we have actually made improvement and we can string together all our small small developments together and show we have improved a level or two from the associates

but sorry actually that did not happen. thats why i was so sad and upset yesterday.

siddons may have improved the batting skills of some of iur batsman. they are getting more big knocks, getting higher average. BUT these players can play as a team. they can only execute a personal achievement but not a team performance .......

look at zim or ireland ...... do they have as much talent as us..... perhaps no ..... but all their players play to execute a team plan..... and thus they get success personally and teamwise. ours players only get success personally not team wise.

siddons have done a great job in improving some batting skills and temperaments but teamwise looks like he is a failure. he has done all he can do. if stays up to world cup may be he can present us one-two more batsman, but team wise i think he cannot offer us anything more.

we need some other coach in future to take this team to the next step.

deshprem
July 16, 2010, 02:02 AM
People who think it's the players who perform and the coach has no role has never played a team sports at competitive level and doesn't have a clue about the role of coach in a team game.



I beg to differ. from my own experience in cricket, and also :

http://www.cricinfo.com/ci/content/video_audio/387286.html?genre=21

maybe ur coach dos everything for u. but for me, he is a mentor and advisor. all the strategy n stuff..the capt n team dos. like wenever we go off track, he taps us in the right direction. thats how u build an independant team that can prosper on its own and learn to handle adverse situations...

yaseer
July 16, 2010, 02:30 AM
The logic from pro-siddons are more or less like - "Players play in the field, so don't blame the coach."

Even if I take this logic, then why we need a coach anyway? Lets play without coach and save the money to invest in other areas. Its all about players, isn't it?

Coach has a big role to play in a cricket team. It does not only include cricket training. It is much more than that. Clearly Siddons lacks ideas in developing a fighting "TEAM". Remember, he is the coach of the "TEAM", only working with individual is not enough.

deshprem
July 16, 2010, 02:57 AM
a coach can teach the players all he wants. but if the players themselves lack in qualities such as learning kwikly, good memory, and knowledge (which i think the BDs lack)...then there is very little that will result.

M.H.Rubel
July 16, 2010, 03:16 AM
Definately this shameless defeat should be taken seriously.7 wicket defeat against IRE with bonus point?Oh. Shame.Definately our performance curve is down sloping.My suggestion if Bangladesh loose against ireland today sack JS and Lotas immediately.
<br />Posted via BC Mobile Edition

Rifat
July 16, 2010, 03:24 AM
the only thing the pro-siddons camp can argue:

under Siddons, the batting abilities of many Bangladesh current batsmen have improved. this is true, when you look at from the individualistic point of view! but then again, SohelNR bro on another thread said, this is due to "natural progression", which makes sense because the boys have been consistently exposed to International cricket...so they had to learn somehow.

anyways, IMHO, this is probably the only thing Pro Siddons camp can argue for.

the anti-siddons camp on the other hand has many arguments on their side,

for example:

* lack of insight for the game
* big mouth remarks on the press
* defensive mindset
* lack of emphasis on bowling

if you examine our current team situation,all of the above is true...

my question, Rifat, Questioning:

What have we really achieved as a TEAM under Siddons since December 2007??

how much credit can siddons take for that narrow win against England last week?

BangladeshFan
July 16, 2010, 06:28 AM
if the coach has no effect and we should blame the players for continuous losses, why do we need a coach with this high pay anyway? get rid of him. i dont think nannu or bulbul would be worse.

nsd3
July 16, 2010, 07:08 AM
BCB did good in appointing bowling coach, Batting advisor, pursuading Jonty - if u think this defeat will act as eye opener, I guess you are on the wrong boat. Firing JS is not a good solution, in fact it's not an option even because we'll be in bigger trouble just b4 World Cup. So what BCB is rightly doing is they are providing help to JS to do his job. Let's see how Bangladesh can turn the table around!

Baundule
July 16, 2010, 07:29 AM
BCB did good in appointing bowling coach, Batting advisor, pursuading Jonty - if u think this defeat will act as eye opener, I guess you are on the wrong boat. Firing JS is not a good solution, in fact it's not an option even because we'll be in bigger trouble just b4 World Cup. So what BCB is rightly doing is they are providing help to JS to do his job. Let's see how Bangladesh can turn the table around!
At first I was also thinking like that; the usual notion is, we do not want any big change on the eve of an important event. Then I tried to go a bit deeper into what the World cup 2011 will give us. IMO, we do not have something big to achieve in the world cup. We are in a group with the following teams: India, South Africa, England, West Indies, Ireland and Netherlands. Only 4 out of these 7 teams will proceed to the next stage.

We should be able to win against Ireland and Netherlands with or without having a coach. The coach's role is very important to win against any of the remaining 4. So far, we have not seen anything done by Siddons to WIN against them. He is still focusing on personal improvement (which is also a bit tricky with performers like Shakib and Riyadh having a dip in their forms) and setting some total targets of arond 230-250 without bothering about the win or loss.

So, if we think, the world cup is the stage to achieve a few fifties for Tamim or Shakib or Junaed or Kayes, then Siddons is the perfect man. But win or loss is the main equation in the world cup - we can not proceed further without any win against those 4 G8 teams - and Siddons is not helping anyway in doing this.

If Siddons respectfully leave the team now, we will still have some months to work on building a team from individuals and working on a team-goal. After a bad world cup, which is likely, we will be much more devastated and it will be even more difficult to set the team-morale high. I do not think, it is good for us to let Siddons destroy the team completely, we should be happy at this 80% damage level. That will at least save some money.

yaseer
July 16, 2010, 07:48 AM
We need 8 batsmen against Ireland as well. It tells how reliable our batsmen are. This also speaks about the batting improvement in Siddons era!!

Tigers_eye
July 16, 2010, 08:09 AM
Personal attack and cheap shot: (To slowdown the crusade)
Before we knew Siddons in this forum who introduced him to us? Who was the first one to want him as a BD national coach? We were all going after Steve Waugh and Observer at that time. Obviously he doesn't like him now. Opinion can change over time but 180 degrees?

Later seeing his work I became a fan of Siddons. Can't agree with everything Siddons does or says but definitely can see he is/was a blessing for BD batting (which was the weakest before that).

Progress: What he received and when he leaves if the progression is a positive one then he did a positive job. As I have said it before and will say it again Siddons affect on batsmen will remain with the boys well past his time. Bangladesh has come a long way!! See the ranking points in Test and ODIs.

WarWolf
July 16, 2010, 08:40 AM
Personal attack and cheap shot: (To slowdown the crusade)
Before we knew Siddons in this forum who introduced him to us? Who was the first one to want him as a BD national coach? We were all going after Steve Waugh and Observer at that time. Obviously he doesn't like him now. Opinion can change over time but 180 degrees?

Later seeing his work I became a fan of Siddons. Can't agree with everything Siddons does or says but definitely can see he is/was a blessing for BD batting (which was the weakest before that).

Progress: What he received and when he leaves if the progression is a positive one then he did a positive job. As I have said it before and will say it again Siddons affect on batsmen will remain with the boys well past his time. Bangladesh has come a long way!! See the ranking points in Test and ODIs.

Mijan bhai
Good post. I also want you to look at the points table. We really have a long way to go. We need some persons with visions who can take us there.

I do agree that Siddons have done some good job with the batsmen. Done some very bad jobs as well. I believe Tamim, Junaid, Imrul these players are directly benefited from JS's guidance. While I am sure that you didn't forget that he is biased and likes name calling. He destroyed Ash successfully with publicly criticizing him regularly in bad ways. (Please don't take it as a Ash fan post. It's not)

JS is not a strategician. He doen't know what to say and when to say. He doesn't know what is a team goal. He is confused about his job as a head coach. But he knows what he has to to do as a batting coach.

I do respect all the great works he has done for the team. BD team is now more or less stable with the current batting line up. Now we need some good strategician who can take the team to some new level. If JS wants to stay as a batting coach then I don't have any problem. But for me he is not suitable for head of the coaching team any more.

al Furqaan
July 16, 2010, 08:50 AM
We lost 3 ranking points today :(

Ireland gained 9 points somehow and now on 10th position.

lower ranked team will get more points than the higher ranked team that loses...

Raynman
July 16, 2010, 09:04 AM
Mijan bhai
Good post. I also want you to look at the points table. We really have a long way to go. We need some persons with visions who can take us there.

I do agree that Siddons have done some good job with the batsmen. Done some very bad jobs as well. I believe Tamim, Junaid, Imrul these players are directly benefited from JS's guidance. While I am sure that you didn't forget that he is biased and likes name calling. He destroyed Ash successfully with publicly criticizing him regularly in bad ways. (Please don't take it as a Ash fan post. It's not)

JS is not a strategician. He doen't know what to say and when to say. He doesn't know what is a team goal. He is confused about his job as a head coach. But he knows what he has to to do as a batting coach.

I do respect all the great works he has done for the team. BD team is now more or less stable with the current batting line up. Now we need some good strategician who can take the team to some new level. If JS wants to stay as a batting coach then I don't have any problem. But for me he is not suitable for head of the coaching team any more.

well said.

I don't think anyone is refusing to give him the credit he deserves for certain improvements in batting. But its highly concerning when his fans refuse to acknowledge that his over emphasis on batting has brought us down a few notches in bowling, fielding and keeping. I was excited with the early wins vs. NZ and SL and expected wins vs. ZIM an WI and thought we were on a right path. But instead of building on wins, Siddons by his own acknowledgement has chose to focus on individual batting. Thats where I call for his head as a HEAD COACH.

For all the debates I have yet to see a post that has built a somewhat reasonable case for Siddons to remain as the HEAD COACH.

Beamer
July 16, 2010, 09:45 AM
the only thing the pro-siddons camp can argue:

under Siddons, the batting abilities of many Bangladesh current batsmen have improved. this is true, when you look at from the individualistic point of view! but then again, SohelNR bro on another thread said, this is due to "natural progression", which makes sense because the boys have been consistently exposed to International cricket...so they had to learn somehow.

anyways, IMHO, this is probably the only thing Pro Siddons camp can argue for.

the anti-siddons camp on the other hand has many arguments on their side,

for example:

* lack of insight for the game
* big mouth remarks on the press
* defensive mindset
* lack of emphasis on bowling

if you examine our current team situation,all of the above is true...

my question, Rifat, Questioning:

What have we really achieved as a TEAM under Siddons since December 2007??

how much credit can siddons take for that narrow win against England last week?

Completely disagree with the 'natural progression' theory. If that logic was to be applied, then lets look back and see how that theory worked with young players who came up and played under Whatmore for three-four years. I will leave behind the likes of JO, Bashar, Pilot, Rafiq, Ashraful ( to some extent ) and other senior members who were playing way before Whatmore came to us. I will exonerate Whatmore on the assumption that those names above were too many years into their careers to implement changes in their style. But, what about the young players that came up during his era and played for an extended period of time under him? Nafis Iqbal, Rajin Saleh, Ashraful ( had four young years with DW ), Aftab Ahmed, Enam Jr, Mehrab, Alok Kapali ( simmilar to Ash situation ), SN. to name a few. They were young upcoming names and look where they are now. They should have been here and established if this crock 'natural progression' theory has to be applied. They are not, because, Whatmore failed to improve and mold one single young player that came up during his era. That was his biggest failure. He left us with nobody ready to take over the mantle from the senior members on verge of retirement. Instead, JS from the get go, had to work with and develop another complete new set of young players who are being established as the core now. Had Whatmore developed the missing generation, we would have a good mixture of experienced but younger core now, and JS wouldn't have to start from scratch with TI, Junaid, Imrul, Jahurul, Rock, Rahim, Sakib etc.

Baundule
July 16, 2010, 09:52 AM
I thought natural progression means natural inflow of capable players, which is the case when huge number of kids turn towards cricket leaving football because of our winning the ICC trophy, getting test status etc. etc.

And Dave Whatmore was the worst coach that Bangladesh ever had. He ruined all our batters. :D

Raynman
July 16, 2010, 09:54 AM
Completely disagree with the 'natural progression' theory. If that logic was to be applied, then lets look back and see how that theory worked with young players who came up and played under Whatmore for three-four years. I will leave behind the likes of JO, Bashar, Pilot, Rafiq, Ashraful ( to some extent ) and other senior members who were playing way before Whatmore came to us. I will exonerate Whatmore on the assumption that those names above were too many years into their careers to implement changes in their style. But, what about the young players that came up during his era and played for an extended period of time under him? Nafis Iqbal, Rajin Saleh, Ashraful ( had four young years with DW ), Aftab Ahmed, Enam Jr, Mehrab, Alok Kapali ( simmilar to Ash situation ), SN. to name a few. They were young upcoming names and look where they are now. They should have been here and established if this crock 'natural progression' theory has to be applied. They are not, because, Whatmore failed to improve and mold one single young player that came up during his era. That was his biggest failure. He left us with nobody ready to take over the mantle from the senior members on verge of retirement. Instead, JS from the get go, had to work with and develop another complete new set of young players who are being established as the core now. Had Whatmore developed the missing generation, we would have a good mixture of experienced but younger core now, and JS wouldn't have to start from scratch with TI, Junaid, Imrul, Jahurul, Rock, Rahim, Sakib etc.


So what exactly is your conclusion? Give Siddons a contract extension and possibly a significant raise or are you lobbying for a Bonus for him?

Or are you saying we should send Whatmore a bill for this bonus and blame him for our horrendous 2010 record?

Ajfar
July 16, 2010, 10:00 AM
So what exactly is your conclusion? Give Siddons a contract extension and possibly a significant raise or are you lobbying for a Bonus for him?

Or are you saying we should send Whatmore a bill for this bonus and blame him for our horrendous 2010 record?

bhai please just read the first line of his post.

Everyone please stop with the personal attack and what not. We are much better than this. At the end if the day we are all well wisher of Bangladesh Cricket. At best this thread is just a disagreement between opinions thats all please dont make it anything more than that.
<br />Posted via BC Mobile Edition (iPhone)

Beamer
July 16, 2010, 10:06 AM
I thought natural progression means natural inflow of capable players, which is the case when huge number of kids turn towards cricket leaving football because of our winning the ICC trophy, getting test status etc. etc.

And Dave Whatmore was the worst coach that Bangladesh ever had. He ruined all our batters. :D

DW was the best possible hire after our disaster in SA World cup. A guy like him was very much needed to bring us out of the rut, which he did, and I actually thank him for righting the ship. But, his failure to COACH, DEVELOP, young generation left us with a void that is being filled now.

Beamer
July 16, 2010, 10:15 AM
So what exactly is your conclusion? Give Siddons a contract extension and possibly a significant raise or are you lobbying for a Bonus for him?

Or are you saying we should send Whatmore a bill for this bonus and blame him for our horrendous 2010 record?

My conclusion if I had my way, and please don't jump on me, or I might start crying :

1. Yes. I would give him another two years to continue the process of Coaching the same core.
2. I will add a superb bowling coach full time.
3. A fielding coach
4. Also, as part of the new deal, I would ask him to better communicate with the players and media. His man management skills are lacking and he can be better.
5. I will give him and his complete staff the additional job as advisers to the Academy team, or at least conduct coaching sessions once every month, or twice when the national team is dormant.

MatinSux
July 16, 2010, 10:25 AM
but then again, SohelNR bro on another thread said, this is due to "natural progression", which makes sense because the boys have been consistently exposed to International cricket...so they had to learn somehow.

And I thought Zafarullah Sarafat's excellent take on Holland vs Spain was worse. What load of BS.

Raynman
July 16, 2010, 10:43 AM
My conclusion if I had my way, and please don't jump on me, or I might start crying :

1. Yes. I would give him another two years to continue the process of Coaching the same core.
2. I will add a superb bowling coach full time.
3. A fielding coach
4. Also, as part of the new deal, I would ask him to better communicate with the players and media. His man management skills are lacking and he can be better.
5. I will give him and his complete staff the additional job as advisers to the Academy team, or at least conduct coaching sessions once every month, or twice when the national team is dormant.


Fair enough. Obviously I disagree with your take on Siddons. I guess I fail to see where his value is as a HEAD coach.

To me it should be the Head Coach coming the board and stating what is needed and not the other way around.

Beamer
July 16, 2010, 10:56 AM
That's fair enough as well. I see him differently than you. I seriously have no issues with differing opinions, because I can rationally argue or counter argue with varied opinions, or be silent completely by choice, or worse, if my workload doesn't allow me to do so. But, the runaway train that is " Fire Siddons " campaign with ultimatums, has to be at least contested, and it may not be the liking of some. So be it.

Sorry about the subtle dig at your improvement monitor thread. It was directed at you. Good catch!

Raynman
July 16, 2010, 12:19 PM
That's fair enough as well. I see him differently than you. I seriously have no issues with differing opinions, because I can rationally argue or counter argue with varied opinions, or be silent completely by choice, or worse, if my workload doesn't allow me to do so. But, the runaway train that is " Fire Siddons " campaign with ultimatums, has to be at least contested, and it may not be the liking of some. So be it.

Sorry about the subtle dig at your improvement monitor thread. It was directed at you. Good catch!

For the record, I believe in accountability. I don't believe our records do justice to where we are as a team and what we are capable of. If Shakib or Tamim go through a lean patch for long enough they are not immune to the axe either. Siddons is no exception.

As a head coach, I am thorougly against his vision, approach (no focus on bowling, fielding, keeping as well as batting items such as running between the wickets and how to score urgently as is required in ODIs and T20s these days), media approach and negativity.

Beamer
July 16, 2010, 01:22 PM
Not much room for disagreement there. Accountability is something that I believe as well. However, I agree with his vision overall, but I do have issues with him regarding the shorter format of the game: i.e the examples that you have mentioned. If he stays with us, I sure hope he improves with all those aspects that you have touched on. However, among all these, a very big argument in his favor is almost always overlooked or suppressed, and that's his work with making the same individuals worthy test players. Almost all players under his tutelage are better test players now than even before ( batsman )and I see no reason why they wont continue to improve. Loss of forms or lean patches are part of the game. But, solid technical teaching as the foundation is something that he has worked on as his vision, and to me it is visible. I think we will be better served if we at least break down his work as 50%-50% for both tests and Odis. I get a feeling that all the attention is focused towards the shorter version of the game, or 100% focus being given to shorter version. Test batting is almost an afterthought! Or, maybe, the nostalgia of Whatmore prevents the anti group to highlight and compare test stats of players under the two coaches. In One dayers, DW vs JS can be debated, but for tests, there are no debate as to who has been a better influnece on batsmen. Its hands down JS. Therefore, its not mentioned or ignored.

nsd3
July 16, 2010, 04:59 PM
If Siddons respectfully leave the team now, we will still have some months to work on building a team from individuals and working on a team-goal. After a bad world cup, which is likely, we will be much more devastated and it will be even more difficult to set the team-morale high. I do not think, it is good for us to let Siddons destroy the team completely, we should be happy at this 80% damage level. That will at least save some money.
I beg to differ with respect. Wishing best of luck to Bangladesh Cricket. Hope the board takes the right decision and continue. We wouldn't be any better as we don't have the calibre of players right at this moment to think otherwise. Long term - we should have players of better calibre and we'll be realistically able to hope for a quick turnaround from similar situations.

al Furqaan
July 16, 2010, 05:08 PM
Not much room for disagreement there. Accountability is something that I believe as well. However, I agree with his vision overall, but I do have issues with him regarding the shorter format of the game: i.e the examples that you have mentioned. If he stays with us, I sure hope he improves with all those aspects that you have touched on. However, among all these, a very big argument in his favor is almost always overlooked or suppressed, and that's his work with making the same individuals worthy test players. Almost all players under his tutelage are better test players now than even before ( batsman )and I see no reason why they wont continue to improve. Loss of forms or lean patches are part of the game. But, solid technical teaching as the foundation is something that he has worked on as his vision, and to me it is visible. I think we will be better served if we at least break down his work as 50%-50% for both tests and Odis. I get a feeling that all the attention is focused towards the shorter version of the game, or 100% focus being given to shorter version. Test batting is almost an afterthought! Or, maybe, the nostalgia of Whatmore prevents the anti group to highlight and compare test stats of players under the two coaches. In One dayers, DW vs JS can be debated, but for tests, there are no debate as to who has been a better influnece on batsmen. Its hands down JS. Therefore, its not mentioned or ignored.

i've tended to do that as well...forget his test improvements in light of the ODI troubles.

its true, in ODIs, Siddons vs Whatmore can be debated, result wise...but in terms of actual polished product, our team is still better under siddons. right now we're just not bowling well.

in tests there are no questions...and perhaps that alone should be enough to keep siddons around.

but we STILL need a bowling coach.

Baundule
July 16, 2010, 05:12 PM
I beg to differ with respect. Wishing best of luck to Bangladesh Cricket. Hope the board takes the right decision and continue. We wouldn't be any better as we don't have the calibre of players right at this moment to think otherwise. Long term - we should have players of better calibre and we'll be realistically able to hope for a quick turnaround from similar situations.
If you guys believe in Siddons so much as a player (batsman?) builder, why don't we appoint him at the age level as a batting coach? National team is not the right place to waste the head coach's quite expensive hours in building some batsmen that will play after 5 years.

National team should be the place for already competent and in-form players. What happens if the claimed Siddons-built players do lose their forms? We keep selecting them? Or, we just start from the scratch with another set of batsmen? And that takes another few years to get that bunch ready for playing?

Simple mathes, isn't it?

Peace
July 17, 2010, 05:45 AM
I do not believe all these so called theories that a team can be destroyed by a head coach or under his leadership. How long will it take to realise that our players do not perform consistently and/ or lack intensity and ruthlessness in their performance. A coach can only teach you, instruct you, guide you, but he can not perform for you. A coach can not stop you by his order or guidance if you have the ability to win matches on your own initiative. We have had three high profile coaches to date. If we are still deprived of success despite having these high calibre coaches, that means we have problems in other areas. The problems with us are that we set our target too high without being realistic. At present, we do not have resources to beat world beaters consistently. However, we can certainly beat our closet comparator like Zimbabwe consistently. 15 years ago, we used to get beaten by Zimbabwe regularly. Since then, we have at least achieved some success by overtaking their ranking. The next target should be West Indies. The recent form of BD does not tell the whole story of our ability. We hardly played any match against Zimbabwe or West Indies recently. Otherwise our win/loss stats would have been much better.
Some of the fan’s opinion of BD cricket apparent crisis is overly magnified. The truth is that the team is going to the right direction. However, fan’s expectation is too high. I will be happy as long as we can beat Zimbabwe and West Indies consistently and get a few inconsistent wins from the top teams over the next few years. We are just 2 or 3 players short (genuine wicket taking bowlers) of becoming a major force in world cricket. Time will only provide them.

dark mage
July 17, 2010, 07:08 AM
If you guys believe in Siddons so much as a player (batsman?) builder, why don't we appoint him at the age level as a batting coach? National team is not the right place to waste the head coach's quite expensive hours in building some batsmen that will play after 5 years.

National team should be the place for already competent and in-form players. What happens if the claimed Siddons-built players do lose their forms? We keep selecting them? Or, we just start from the scratch with another set of batsmen? And that takes another few years to get that bunch ready for playing?

Simple mathes, isn't it?

Well I am upset with Siddons' negative approach. However, I disagree with you. Because the team in question here is Bangladesh and the players that do make it to national side have gaping flaws in their techniques as our local league isnt competent enough to produce reliable players. So the Bangladesh National coach has to teach players even when they make it to the national team.

A good example is Sharier Nafees. He has always played as an opener from the moment he learnt to hold a bat in his hand apparently, so why then, does a "true-blooded, thoroughbred opener" like him have trouble playing the faster bowlers while he is more comfortable against spin? So what does that tell you? I dunno about you, but it tells me, that the standard of our local coaches, local leagues are really low if an opener like Nafees can come into the national team as an opner. So you see the coach of the Bangladesh National team has to literally teach them the basics

About Siddons, I m now neither a pro nor an anti Siddons, and am a neutral. This is because, I acknowledge that Siddons has indeed "created" some batsmen, who should serve the country for years to come but at the same time I also admit, that Siddons has failed to instill a positive, agressive, winning mentality within players. So under him, we have more skilled, techniqally correct batsmen, but our fighting spirit has been toned down alot. So I can't say I m a fan of his and neither can I say I dislike him. But I do feel he shouldnt be the head-coach, as his strategies are questionable

Tiger444
July 18, 2010, 11:51 AM
Well I am upset with Siddons' negative approach. However, I disagree with you. Because the team in question here is Bangladesh and the players that do make it to national side have gaping flaws in their techniques as our local league isnt competent enough to produce reliable players. So the Bangladesh National coach has to teach players even when they make it to the national team.

A good example is Sharier Nafees. He has always played as an opener from the moment he learnt to hold a bat in his hand apparently, so why then, does a "true-blooded, thoroughbred opener" like him have trouble playing the faster bowlers while he is more comfortable against spin? So what does that tell you? I dunno about you, but it tells me, that the standard of our local coaches, local leagues are really low if an opener like Nafees can come into the national team as an opner. So you see the coach of the Bangladesh National team has to literally teach them the basics

About Siddons, I m now neither a pro nor an anti Siddons, and am a neutral. This is because, I acknowledge that Siddons has indeed "created" some batsmen, who should serve the country for years to come but at the same time I also admit, that Siddons has failed to instill a positive, agressive, winning mentality within players. So under him, we have more skilled, techniqally correct batsmen, but our fighting spirit has been toned down alot. So I can say I m a fan of his and neither can I say I dislike him. But I do feel he shouldnt be the head-coach, as his strategies are questionable

Top post dark mage..I'm actually neutral just like you with those reasons you listed..I'm a big believer in give credit when credit is due..Siddons has made our batsmen more technically correct..for example with Tamim, he said that he changed up his stance so it was a bit wider and he could score more easily which obviously made a difference for him..I believe he did the same thing with Shakib as well..Riyad credited him big time as well so theres no secret that he has made it easier for the batsmen to score runs but as a head coach thats only half of the job..his strategies seem defensive with always going with 8 batsmen..he also doesn't seem a great motivator so that part SIddons failed..

BANFAN
July 19, 2010, 09:26 AM
Top post dark mage..I'm actually neutral just like you with those reasons you listed..I'm a big believer in give credit when credit is due..Siddons has made our batsmen more technically correct..for example with Tamim, he said that he changed up his stance so it was a bit wider and he could score more easily which obviously made a difference for him..I believe he did the same thing with Shakib as well..Riyad credited him big time as well so theres no secret that he has made it easier for the batsmen to score runs but as a head coach thats only half of the job..his strategies seem defensive with always going with 8 batsmen..he also doesn't seem a great motivator so that part SIddons failed..

These are not major / basic technical errors. This types of corrections are needed for th ebest batsmen of the world. Tendul, Dravid, Ponting, Hussey, C Paul, ... many many batsmen have gone through times, when they had to make adjustment in different things. This is the basic job of the coach. Question is how effectively he has done it ? If that was so effectively done you would have seen more consistant performance from these players. I'm sorry to say that he even is not doing this part correctly. And these are not deficiency in basic skills that some of you seem to suggest, that he has done a huge improvement in our skills. That's Myth

Tiger444
July 19, 2010, 05:26 PM
These are not major / basic technical errors. This types of corrections are needed for th ebest batsmen of the world. Tendul, Dravid, Ponting, Hussey, C Paul, ... many many batsmen have gone through times, when they had to make adjustment in different things. This is the basic job of the coach. Question is how effectively he has done it ? If that was so effectively done you would have seen more consistant performance from these players. I'm sorry to say that he even is not doing this part correctly. And these are not deficiency in basic skills that some of you seem to suggest, that he has done a huge improvement in our skills. That's Myth

The batsmen nowadays are much more consistent then before..we were always known for having the most inconsistent batsmen..back in the day we had batsmen averaging lower to mid 20's but now we have batsmen that average high 20's to low 30's..also I see that players are delivering better performances at a consistent rate..of course they are still inconsistent but not like before..all these batsmen we have now were pretty raw batsmen but now they have become more complete in my opinion..Tamim for instance seemed like a slogger at 1st like Aftab and Ash but he has transformed his game very nicely now..Zunaed was a raw batsman who could not play against the short ball for his life and now has become 1 of our premier batsmen..even though Riyad has been in a slump he has come a long way as a player that can accelerate..Shakib also was raw player who has transformed his game very nicely..Mushy was a player that took time to settle in but now he has become a handy player when it comes down to big hitting down the order..now of course these players are naturally improving with more experience and the players have to be credited but the coach has to be credited as well..the big problem with Siddons though is the players don't come out with the fire..the boys come out with very little confidence when they come out..that definitely the coach has to be blamed for..a good attitude, and an attacking game plan can really make a big difference and thats where Siddons is doing a really bad job..this group we have is very good and we should have won more games this year..being 2-25 is definitely not good enough..if he was 8-19 or 9-18 then that would be a step in the right direction..of course he can make our players better but at the end of the day what matters is wins/losses and the coach is 1st to be blamed when the team is not doing as well as they should..we have to find a coach who can improve our boys games AND be a good motivator..not 1 or the other..

bujhee kom
July 19, 2010, 05:41 PM
Oh Hello, how are things? Khela jombe naki?

al-Sagar
July 19, 2010, 08:29 PM
Oh Hello, how are things? Khela jombe naki?

khela brishti ar thanday jome jacche

WarWolf
July 20, 2010, 10:59 AM
I am also joining the group to remove JS. Bravo JS for developing a backbonelss team. You are the only coach in the test playing world who doesn't have any planning and vision.

SS
July 20, 2010, 11:47 AM
Signed...

Ajfar
July 20, 2010, 11:55 AM
ok thats it screw the baldy
<br />Posted via BC Mobile Edition (iPhone)

Murad
July 20, 2010, 12:18 PM
ok thats it screw the baldy
<br />Posted via BC Mobile Edition (iPhone)

Huh? E ami ki dekhtesi?? Ban_Sy eta ki koilo?? :o

tonoy
July 20, 2010, 01:15 PM
Get this baldy out of the team ASAP. One loss I can bear with. But two? Hell No!

bujhee kom
July 20, 2010, 01:23 PM
Jammie Siddons should resign now!

SS
July 20, 2010, 01:25 PM
Aei beta should have looked for another job...if you can do the job..either you try your best or leave...he should leave even our BCB management doesn't let him go...

zainab
July 20, 2010, 01:50 PM
Blame BCB for sticking with JS, should have never renewed his contract, they are back to 2007 /2008
when they had no coach. maybe, they should just have a local coach who the players can understand.

SS
July 20, 2010, 01:54 PM
severance package nai in BCB...JS is lucky getting all the money and free vac..amare fire korar shomoi to kisui deinai...

bujhee kom
July 20, 2010, 01:56 PM
severance package nai in BCB...JS is lucky getting all the money and free vac..amare fire korar shomoi to kisui deinai...

SS bhai, did you use to work with BCB before? I didn't know that!!

reyme
July 20, 2010, 01:58 PM
Jammie Siddons should resign now!


Jamai Siddons. :floor:

SS
July 20, 2010, 01:58 PM
SS bhai, did you use to work with BCB before? I didn't know that!!

Nare bhai...taile to bhaloi hoito...I would treated you with biriyani lunch times everyday...

SS
July 20, 2010, 01:59 PM
Jamai Siddons. :floor:

Aei betare ke biya korlo abar...

reyme
July 20, 2010, 02:04 PM
^Keu biya kore nai. Tobe ekta Girl Friend Ache.

real123
July 20, 2010, 02:28 PM
^Keu biya kore nai. Tobe ekta Girl Friend Ache.

If JS is removed, then I am afraid BCB will make Sujan to become coach and you can imagine what will happen. Even they can bring Arefin Tutul (Soccer player) to become the head coach!
I read one article yesterday, BCB appointed some Manjur guy from Brunei as CEO, I have no clues how these choices are made.....

SMHasan
July 21, 2010, 06:41 AM
Dead Men Don't Bite........

We should stop playing cricket, it's as simple as it is.

BANFAN
July 21, 2010, 07:38 AM
The batsmen nowadays are much more consistent then before..we were always known for having the most inconsistent batsmen..back in the day we had batsmen averaging lower to mid 20's but now we have batsmen that average high 20's to low 30's..also I see that players are delivering better performances at a consistent rate..of course they are still inconsistent but not like before..all these batsmen we have now were pretty raw batsmen but now they have become more complete in my opinion..Tamim for instance seemed like a slogger at 1st like Aftab and Ash but he has transformed his game very nicely now..Zunaed was a raw batsman who could not play against the short ball for his life and now has become 1 of our premier batsmen..even though Riyad has been in a slump he has come a long way as a player that can accelerate..Shakib also was raw player who has transformed his game very nicely..Mushy was a player that took time to settle in but now he has become a handy player when it comes down to big hitting down the order..now of course these players are naturally improving with more experience and the players have to be credited but the coach has to be credited as well..the big problem with Siddons though is the players don't come out with the fire..the boys come out with very little confidence when they come out..that definitely the coach has to be blamed for..a good attitude, and an attacking game plan can really make a big difference and thats where Siddons is doing a really bad job..this group we have is very good and we should have won more games this year..being 2-25 is definitely not good enough..if he was 8-19 or 9-18 then that would be a step in the right direction..of course he can make our players better but at the end of the day what matters is wins/losses and the coach is 1st to be blamed when the team is not doing as well as they should..we have to find a coach who can improve our boys games AND be a good motivator..not 1 or the other..

Now a days batsmen have better averages, beacuse they are coming to national team with better skills. Give credit to our domestic coachings for that, they aren't Not made by JS. Boyz like Shakib, Tamim, Junaid, Jahurul was at their pick in their early days. As they start getting JS coaching they become useless day by day. Even Ash is ruined by him. if someone is a math graduate and you start teaching him to be a physics professor, very soon he will be useless in both. So JS doing a great job there is nonsense. Principle is "Don't fidle with basic batting styles, just correct flaws in that style" that would make all the above players more consistant.

JS only knows one particular type of batting and he tries to make everyone that. That's why we are ruined. Please get over the JS batting genius myth as early as possible. He is garbage of a coach, plaease call municpality, he is affecting our cricketing environment negatively.

BANFAN
July 21, 2010, 07:44 AM
Not only eyes, it should open up many other things I guess.

al-Sagar
July 21, 2010, 10:06 PM
Not only eyes, it should open up many other things I guess.

eyes,mouth, nose, ears, brain, heart, mind, .....

view360
July 21, 2010, 11:30 PM
It is unwise to expect a blind to open it's eyes at the first place and we are even trying to sell mirrors to the blinds hoping that they can see how 'beautiful' they are . Too much of wishful thinking.

One World
July 21, 2010, 11:37 PM
JS only knows one particular type of batting and he tries to make everyone that. That's why we are ruined. Please get over the JS batting genius myth as early as possible. He is garbage of a coach, plaease call municpality, he is affecting our cricketing environment negatively.


Good post, wish someone like Miraz could really feed us on this. Your post makes me curious to know each players' take on Siddons - be it in disguise for job security.