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Spitfire_x86
July 20, 2010, 01:19 PM
The definitive Pro Siddons/Anti Siddons poll.

The rules are the same. If you don't have any opinion on this matter, not voting is your vote. What defines "Pro Siddons" or "Anti Siddons" is upto you.

Ajfar
July 20, 2010, 01:20 PM
bhaijan where is the poll??

aie election e siddon ektaw vote paibo na ajke.

Murad
July 20, 2010, 01:20 PM
Hell No.
Destroyer of BD cricket!

Btw..ajke onek pro-siddons anti hoye gese.. eta dekhe amar je ki moja lagtese :-p

rahat90
July 20, 2010, 01:20 PM
4 months ago...YES
2 months ago...MAYBE
now...NO
4 months in the future...death penalty 4 siddons

shakibrulz
July 20, 2010, 01:22 PM
NO.

yaseer
July 20, 2010, 01:23 PM
What a timing. Siddons er vote pawar kono chacne e nai.

magic boy
July 20, 2010, 01:26 PM
not just only Jamie Siddons...big NO to BCB+Siddons+Selectors+a few players

exactly a temporary no to this cricket team for a while!!

Spitfire_x86
July 20, 2010, 01:26 PM
What a timing. Siddons er vote pawar kono chacne e nai.
From now, there will be one poll after every tour/series :)

Murad
July 20, 2010, 01:28 PM
Spitty our new poll master :-p

Spitfire_x86
July 20, 2010, 01:30 PM
Spitty our new poll master :-p
Only the Siddons polls :-p

yaseer
July 20, 2010, 01:30 PM
Amader ki eibar ICC trophy kheila WC e asha uchit chilo?
Allah bachaise Test status ase, naile to nijer dese WC miss hoito.

Ajfar
July 20, 2010, 01:33 PM
Spitty our new poll master :-p

aieta ki koilen bhai. tahole amader shams the poll master bhai er ki hobe

view360
July 20, 2010, 01:34 PM
amader ki eibar icc trophy kheila wc e asha uchit chilo?
Allah bachaise test status ase, naile to nijer dese wc miss hoito.

কিছুই বলা যায় না ।

Nadim
July 20, 2010, 01:34 PM
whoever voted for pro siddon should be slaped on their a**
<br />Posted via BC Mobile Edition (1)

bujhee kom
July 20, 2010, 01:36 PM
whoever voted for pro siddon should be slaped on their a**
<br />Posted via BC Mobile Edition (1)

Ei boodmais, doon't touch ma ess!

aniksh1
July 20, 2010, 01:37 PM
coach is 5% at most and players are rest....we are good at blame game...why blame the coach...cos he is not bdeshi....this attitude needs to be crushed to the bone...

Ajfar
July 20, 2010, 01:37 PM
Ei boodmais, doon't touch ma ess!

:floor::floor::floor:

Baundule
July 20, 2010, 01:38 PM
You'll find a rise in Siddons' popularity after the next series. The condition of our country tells for it. Our majority is dumb; but only a few beats everything in that matter.

Baundule
July 20, 2010, 01:39 PM
coach is 5% at most and players are rest....we are good at blame game...why blame the coach...cos he is not bdeshi....this attitude needs to be crushed to the bone...
So far, I was told that the coach is building the players. Now it's all the players fault. :D

cricket_pagol
July 20, 2010, 01:44 PM
I am for rational thinking, not scapegoating the coach for every other loss.

ialbd
July 20, 2010, 01:45 PM
BCB just needs to come up with a plan before going all anti-Siddons. Esp after the Ireland/Netherland game its just so easy to jump on the anti-Siddon bandwagon. We can certainly get a more effective coach for our team.... but thats not the biggest problem at the moment. So I really think there should be an option C... which is 'Anti-Siddons if there is a bigger plan'

view360
July 20, 2010, 01:47 PM
I am for rational thinking, not scapegoating the coach for every other loss.

Cricket is not for 'rational thinkers' to begin with. 'Rational thinkers' have their own place in the academy. Now , please stop this political correctness in defending these serial looser.

Spitfire_x86
July 20, 2010, 01:49 PM
I am for rational thinking, not scapegoating the coach for every other loss.
You know, it's easier to vote than typing all those words ;)

Nadim
July 20, 2010, 01:57 PM
Ei boodmais, doon't touch ma ess!

amar slap kora lagbona...public lagaiya dimu
<br />Posted via BC Mobile Edition

wasi90lkv1
July 20, 2010, 02:04 PM
i am still pro-siddons.

if you fire siddons, i do not think new coach is going to change bangladesh cricket.

under siddons, we beat new zealand, england, sri lanka, and west indies. we also beat zimbabwe in every single series we played against them.

i think players need a break.

Raynman
July 20, 2010, 02:19 PM
i am still pro-siddons.

if you fire siddons, i do not think new coach is going to change bangladesh cricket.

under siddons, we beat new zealand, england, sri lanka, and west indies. we also beat zimbabwe in every single series we played against them.

i think players need a break.

With Whatmore we beat IND, SL, AUS (!), SA and had a 5-0 whitewash of ZIM. This includes WC wins. We even beat NZ in WC warm up and after Whatmore and before Siddons we beat WI in a WC T20 match. On that platform we should've accomplished more under our next coach. Whether its his fault or not, BD cricket needs a change in its coaching direction, PERIOD.

Dilscoop
July 20, 2010, 02:33 PM
Lol. Finally, some off you woke up from the major braining washing of JS.

Welcome home guys!

wasi90lkv1
July 20, 2010, 02:37 PM
maybe siddons should be replaced. but i think he should be the coach until 2011 world cup.

Equinox
July 20, 2010, 02:38 PM
Well firstly his contract won't and should not be terminated this close to a World Cup. However the BCB must take some action. Someone who has actually played proper cricket in the BCB...Gazi Ashraf or whoever needs to schedule a meeting with Siddons ASAP and let him know that he must stop and amend some of his methods immediately. For example his reluctance to look at players outside of the national team. I remember when Rokibul walked out and selectors announced Jahirul as his replacement he said he would've preferred Ash. Not only was that an ignorant comment before a Test match, it must have hurt Jahirul on some level before making his debut. In general he seems to have this reluctance to bring in new players and tends to stick with the same guys even if they are failing to carry out their role in the team eg Riyad. This is mainly true with batsmen. He doesn't mind chopping and changing the bowlers which shows his negligence towards them.

Strategies must not be scripted and instead should be spontaneous and open to improvisation according to the situation. It is pathetic to see Riyad walk out ahead of Mash with a few overs to go given Riyad's current form. It is equally pathetic to see the same batting order match after match, after continuous failure.

A group of five batsmen (Tamim, Zunaed, Shakib, Mushy and Mash) should be given authority over PP. If any of those guys are in the middle they decide when they should take the PP. It must not be decided before the match. Plus the target also must not be decided before the match.

And this is perhaps the most important information that needs to be relayed to him. Always always play to win!Even if the opposition has posted 400 runs on the board you must try to chase it down and you must not give up after Tamim is gone. Always play to win! If any individual in the team isn't doing that for personal reasons he must be dropped immediately.

I am technically still pro-Siddons however a helluva lot less than I was yesterday. If I don't see results soon I may convert.

FagunerAgun
July 20, 2010, 02:39 PM
A bad timing for this type of thread.

Dilscoop
July 20, 2010, 02:43 PM
A bad timing for this type of thread.
Oh so it wasn;t bad timing when it was opened after Eng victory?

Raynman
July 20, 2010, 02:44 PM
Well firstly his contract won't and should not be terminated this close to a World Cup. However the BCB must take some action. Someone who has actually played proper cricket in the BCB...Gazi Ashraf or whoever needs to schedule a meeting with Siddons ASAP and let him know that he must stop and amend some of his methods immediately. For example his reluctance to look at players outside of the national team. I remember when Rokibul walked out and selectors announced Jahirul as his replacement he said he would've preferred Ash. Not only was that an ignorant comment before a Test match, it must have hurt Jahirul on some level before making his debut. In general he seems to have this reluctance to bring in new players and he prefers to stick with the same guys even if they are failing to carry out their role in the team eg Riyad.

Strategies must not be scripted and instead should be spontaneous and open to improvisation according to the situation. It is pathetic to see Riyad walk out ahead of Mash with a few overs to go given Riyad's current form. It is equally pathetic to see the same batting order match after match after continuous failure.

A group of five batsmen (Tamim, Zunaed, Shakib, Mushy and Mash) should be given authority over PP. If any of those guys are in the middle they decide when they should take the PP. It must not be decided before the match.

And this is perhaps the most important information that needs to be relayed to him. Always always play to win!Even if the opposition has posted 400 runs on the board you must try to chase it down and you must not give up after Tamim is gone. Always play to win! If any individual in the team isn't doing that for personal reasons he must be dropped immediately.

I am technically still pro-Siddons however a helluva lot less than I was yesterday. If I don't see results soon I may convert.

These changes are precisely why some of us have been asking to replace Siddons for. If he adhered to your suggestions, I don't think there would a debate of him coaching in the first place.

FagunerAgun
July 20, 2010, 02:53 PM
Oh so it wasn;t bad timing when it was opened after Eng victory?
You missed my point.

Losing to Dutch in this pathetic way is more emotional than winning against England.

Plus in this tour we lost 4 ODIs - two against minows and won only two - one against minows.

So this emotional period is more detrimental to a sound judgement regarding a coach.

Dilscoop
July 20, 2010, 02:56 PM
So we can come to conclusion that our fans don't have their own opinion. They like to follow in bunch of groups to where ever it favors them? They are simply clueless about this, just as much the players?

Raynman
July 20, 2010, 03:10 PM
Dilscoop, let me explain:

Win : credit Siddons, Lose : blame players
Lose ODIs : Point out Test Batting stats
When bowling sux : Point out Siddons is a Batting coach
When centuries are scored : Credit Siddons
When the centurion fails next match : Blame the player
When pro Siddons opinion is high : Acknowledge the majority as the voice of reason
When anti Siddons opinion is high : Blame emotional outburst

At the end of the day : Agree that Siddons is bad for the team and a failure but give him a bonus and a contract extension.

MatinSux
July 20, 2010, 03:10 PM
if you third option of in between and poll highlighted it as white, then it would almost look like the dutch flag lol.

roman
July 20, 2010, 03:12 PM
I have posted this on the other thread but i think i should post it here aswell. I think we should not bring in any foreign coach as most of our players are not educated enough to understand what the foreign coach has to offer. I think this is one of the reasons why Siddons/Whatmore is a failure. With a Bangladeshi Coach the result cant be worse than this and we can save some money. This is Just an opinion.
<!-- / message -->

Dilscoop
July 20, 2010, 03:12 PM
Dilscoop, let me explain:

Win : credit Siddons, Lose : blame players
Lose ODIs : Point out Test Batting stats
When bowling sux : Point out Siddons is a Batting coach
When centuries are scored : Credit Siddons
When the centurion fails next match : Blame the player
When pro Siddons opinion is high : Acknowledge the majority as the voice of reason
When anti Siddons opinion is high : Blame emotional outburst

At the end of the day : Agree that Siddons is bad for the team and a failure but give him a bonus and a contract extension.
I haven;t been here for a year. But to me, that's the post of the year.

Dilscoop
July 20, 2010, 03:23 PM
Also, there is a huge confusion about this Pro-Anti JS. I just wanna point out what I am seeing here.

Pros think we are comparing JS with Whatmore era, and to prove their point they bring out what was WRONG with that era. Why? Why are we bringing up Whatmore era? Anti's are NOT comparing this era to that. We are Anti-JS, not Anti-JS slash Whatmore fan. So that can not be a valid argument. Please stop bringing those up.

2ndly. Stop brining out those Batting improvements. That seems to me is the ONLY thing you can do these days. We are NOT talking about JS-the batting coach. We are talking about JS-the head coach. Some of us or at least I agree, that JS has done a decent job creating these batsman. No one is disagreeing with that. So WHY? Why keep brining that up? We are talking about how JS has totally killed the spirit of these players. How down they are, and the negative mentality in the team that you can see on their faces through the screen of your TV/COmp. It's that transparent. We are talking about JS's team set up, the game plan that he creates. The way he is handling the team or misleading the team. So it doesn't matter if the batting as improved if we can't win matches against unranked teams. Then I would rather have the teams from the old days, with no technique but still able to win games, because they want to and they believe they can. As a fan I wanna see wins more than personal achievement.

Even some of the Pro JS agree that, he is doing bad as a head coach. So both group is agreeing to the same thing one way or the other, but still arguing about our agreement? Looks like we just wanna argue just because we want to, and it's not even about our cricket anymore.

wasi90lkv1
July 20, 2010, 03:28 PM
Also, there is a huge confusion about this Pro-Anti JS. I just wanna point out what I am seeing here.

Pros think we are comparing JS with Whatmore era, and to prove their point they bring out what was WRONG with that era. Why? Why are we bringing up Whatmore era? Anti's are NOT comparing this era to that. We are Anti-JS, not Anti-JS slash Whatmore fan. So that can not be a valid argument. Please stop bringing those up.

2ndly. Stop brining out those Batting improvements. That seems to me is the ONLY thing you can do these days. We are NOT talking about JS-the batting coach. We are talking about JS-the head coach. Some of us or at least I agree, that JS has done a decent job creating these batsman. No one is disagreeing with that. So WHY? Why keep brining that up? We are talking about how JS has totally killed the spirit of these players. How down they are, and the negative mentality in the team that you can see on their faces through the screen of your TV/COmp. It's that transparent. We are talking about JS's team set up, the game plan that he creates. The way he is handling the team or misleading the team. So it doesn't matter if the batting as improved if we can't win matches against unranked teams. Then I would rather have the teams from the old days, with no technique but still able to win games, because they want to and they believe they can. As a fan I wanna see wins more than personal achievement.

Even some of the Pro JS agree that, he is doing bad as a head coach. So both group is agreeing to the same thing one way or the other, but still arguing about our agreement? Looks like we just wanna argue just because we want to, and it's not even about our cricket anymore.

without our batting, we do not exist in world cricket. because of batting, we can at least upset a few teams every now and then.

spirit was there just a few days ago. i remember bangladesh gave a good fight to england in bangladeshi soil, we should have won the 2nd ODI game and perhaps the 2nd test had it not for the umpires. but after that series they became demoralized and started to perform bad.

they need a break.

zman
July 20, 2010, 03:30 PM
No to Siddons for ODI/T20I. Reason: when something is broken it needs to be fixed
Yes to Siddons for Test matches. Reason: why try to fix something that ain't broken

Here's my optimal solution to our problem
(http://www.banglacricket.com/alochona/showpost.php?p=1191245&postcount=9)

Raynman
July 20, 2010, 03:31 PM
without our batting, we do not exist in world cricket. because of batting, we can at least upset a few teams every now and then.

spirit was there just a few days ago. i remember bangladesh gave a good fight to england in bangladeshi soil, we should have won the 2nd ODI game and perhaps the 2nd test had it not for the umpires. but after that series they became demoralized and started to perform bad.

they need a break.

Go look at our wins and see how many of them came with the batsmen running away with the game.

Its our bowlers that have won most of our matches. We have not beaten a Test team by chasing 270+, nor have we won with our batsmen setting up a 270+ platform.

bujhee kom
July 20, 2010, 03:32 PM
Siddons: "Yes, no, very good!"

bujhee kom
July 20, 2010, 03:32 PM
From today I shall call Jamie Siddons "Chiddon"!

Dilscoop
July 20, 2010, 03:35 PM
No to Siddons for ODI/T20I. Reason: when something is broken it needs to be fixed
Yes to Siddons for Test matches. Reason: why try to fix something that ain't broken

Here's my optimal solution to our problem
(http://www.banglacricket.com/alochona/showpost.php?p=1191245&postcount=9)
Dude! Js is not a player! He is a coach. And last time I heard, that rule only applies to players (unless you are Imrul Kayes). If a player is slow, and takes time to get going, he should just play test. If a player can't play long and slow innings, likes to play shots and very attacking, he should play ODI/T20. But they don't pick different coaches for different version of the game! It's ONE coach. Taka gasay dhoray apnar? :D

zman
July 20, 2010, 03:41 PM
Fool! Js is not a player! He is a coach. And last time I heard, that rule only applies to players (unless you are Imrul Kayes). If a player is slow, and takes time to get going, he should just play test. If a player can't play long and slow innings, likes to play shots and very attacking, he should play ODI/T20. But they don't pick different coaches for different version of the game! It's ONE coach. Taka gasay dhoray apnar?
Watch your language here and be respectful of others...others may hold different views and you still can't insult them...cuz this is not your typical R rated forum...even if comments such as the above make you sound retarded to many we refrain from using abusive language...one day when you grow up you'll learn nothing is constant...everything changes

Murad
July 20, 2010, 03:44 PM
without our batting, we do not exist in world cricket. because of batting, we can at least upset a few teams every now and then.
.

are you sure about that my friend?

Bowlers won us against India and South Africa in WC2007.
Bowlers won us against England and Ireland this month.

How many games the batsmen won for us?

Our win against India in 2007 was also because of good bowling.

bujhee kom
July 20, 2010, 03:45 PM
Dilu mia apa 1000th post marte gia dhora khaiche zman bhaier haate....hahahaah!

wasi90lkv1
July 20, 2010, 03:46 PM
are you sure about that my friend?

Bowlers won us against India and South Africa in WC2007.
Bowlers won us against England and Ireland this this month.

So when was the last time batsmen won us a game? Except the Cardiff game.

batting always plays a part in every single bangladeshi success.

our bowlers are club level. batsmen are decent.

pocha
July 20, 2010, 03:47 PM
I was anti even before this defeat (and will remain till I see his exit or our exit from WC) as I dont see any future with Siddons. If we cant beat the associates (I mean on 2 out of 3 occasions), then there must be something seriously wrong with our ODI squad. Prepare for the worst, I hope neither Netherland nor Ireland is in our world cup group.

What did Siddons do after our unparalleled success as an ODI outfit in WC 07, remember we had most of these boys who were kids then

Dilscoop
July 20, 2010, 03:52 PM
^^ IRL and Neth both are in our group. LOL

reyme
July 20, 2010, 09:19 PM
JS is gone, just matter of time now. I wonder which team would pick him up next...

One World
July 20, 2010, 09:21 PM
Those seven are like se7en, waiting for the inevitable. I have to admire your patience. True fans.
:up:

Murad
July 20, 2010, 09:25 PM
batting always plays a part in every single bangladeshi success.

our bowlers are club level. batsmen are decent.

But you said because of batsmen we made these upsets!

Its the bowlers who helped us win many games. Batsmen most of the time failed to give the bowlers any good total to defend.

Our bowling gone worse under Jamie Siddons.

reyme
July 20, 2010, 09:26 PM
If JS has any dignity left, he would resign right now. But he wont. He would try to stick around as long as posible. When fired or let go, he would blame everything and everybody.

He will show how Riyad, Imrul, Raqib improved their batting avg under his "magical batting guidance"...hopefully by now all can see why Riyad goes out there and tries to stay not out.

JS is killing this team for his so called "personal achievement" and milestone propaganda, which he wants to use to justify his contract ext and bonus.

reyme
July 20, 2010, 09:37 PM
without our batting, we do not exist in world cricket. because of batting, we can at least upset a few teams every now and then.


Batting has gone downhill and continues to decline. What happened to Middle order? Where is the tail? At least 4 -5 years ago we had some resilient lower middle to tail. Now as soon as the first 3/4 players get out the game is already over for us. JS himself says openly if Tamim is out, the game is over. What a shame! What a coach! What kind of a batting genius this guy is, when we cant have a strong partnership lower middle order or with tail, cant bat during slog overs, dont have any clue how to play during batting power play and worst of all dont even know when to take batting PP!

Every team faces problems with off form and injuries, but a good coach can come up with solutions! Thats why every team has a coach! Coach is not there as "5%", to talk to the media and watch the game a like spectator, he actually has a full time job to do and he gets paid handsomely for that.

And what about creating a bench starength for batting? Did he spend any time what so ever to create or build some backup for batting lineup? You can do it all, if you really care, if you really have passion.

Do you actually believe some test/associate team will actually ever pick him up as their batting or head coach in future?

One World
July 20, 2010, 09:45 PM
We never had a resilient middle order, a thirtyish Aftab or a 50 ball 10 rajin or habibul.

One World
July 20, 2010, 09:49 PM
These are the last of the Mohicans, the last passengers of Noah' ark - waiting for that big A-Ha moment. All fans pro- or anti-, should salute them.

Pro Siddons
bujhee kom, Equinox, laki, MohammedC, Peace, Spitfire_x86, wasi90lkv1

reyme
July 20, 2010, 09:53 PM
Rajin and Habilbul are not middle order, they were top order. I mentioned "lower middle order". We had Rafiq, Pilot, Mashrafe. During Dav, Mashrafe was considered one of the best alrounders in subcontinent.

One World
July 20, 2010, 10:02 PM
Rajin and Habilbul are not middle order, they were top order. I mentioned "lower middle order". We had Rafiq, Pilot, Mashrafe. During Dav, Mashrafe was considered one of the best alrounders in subcontinent.

Ok I got it, your direct question about middle order what baffled me.

beshideshi
July 20, 2010, 10:10 PM
I used to be very pro siddons, but after the loss to Neth, I really have to think twice. Not that I am saying Siddons is a poor coach or the players are idiotic, sometimes you can get all the best people for your team and it might still fail[Real Madrid].
I could see the technical improvement that has happened over the past 2 years and if BCB are wise enough to stick to players like Junaid, jahurul, Mushy, Riyad[yeah, RIYAD :O] then we will see the fruit in the future. But if we keep changing the team we will always be in the same position forever.
But as many argued, "brikher porichoy tar fol-e"[judge a tree by it's fruits] and we are fruitless at the moment. So most of us would want JS's head served in a platter and served for dinner.
another thing, pro or anti siddons, he is staying till the WC, no more or no less. That much is guaranteed, he is not going to be fired now. Firing him now would just push into a whirlpool. We have to stick with him until the WC and just hope that the BD players look at their jerseys once in a while and realize that when they go out there to play, they are representing 150million people, they are carrying 150 million dreams on their shoulders, some kid in a distant village has a huge poster of Shakib/Mash/Tamim in his room and he looks upto it everyday and just hopes that BD wins. And if that is not good enough to motivate them, nothing would be.

max410
July 20, 2010, 10:45 PM
Coach der dosh diya labh ki bhai amader cricket khela uchit nah players ra ki shikhseh

ahnaf
July 21, 2010, 12:57 AM
Ki je bolbo bujhtecina.. Tobe amar kache mone hocche kichu akta problem ache team e.. May b.. Ai duto porajoy er jonno jodi keo coach k dayi kore tahole mone hoy na thik hobe... Coach ki boleche match here ashte?? Ami sure je ontoto ai 3ta match e js bolche je oder k harate boro differece ei.. But amra pari nai... Riyad k bad deya dorkar.. O pura selfish.. Even netharland r against eo o r marar kono intention chilo na!! O last over e giyeo nijer form khuje pete moriya even holland r against e!!! R bowling ta pura foul.. Akdin bhalo hyto.. Arekdin pura kharap jeno mone hoy parar kono bowler ra bowl korche...

Naimul_Hd
July 21, 2010, 01:47 AM
ar pari na...ar pari na....amar vishon klanti lage...

Imteaz
July 21, 2010, 01:50 AM
Thinking........

Miraz
July 21, 2010, 06:07 AM
Nothing will change. Siddons will be in chrage until 2011 WC and will leave after a complete disaster on home soil.

We have lost our 3 years of international cricket due to lack of player commitment and incompetence of the coach. We will lose another 8 months.

It was so frustrating to see the level of satisfaction in the team despite losing against the associates. The whole team managment needs to be changed to alter the mindset. The satisfaction bar has to be raised, the chorus of playing good cricket has to be stopped. You only play good cricket when you win matches.

MohammedC
July 21, 2010, 06:14 AM
If nothing will change till wc 2011. I say let's just support the boys till then. We don't have to support chindon.


Just like your signature Miraz bhai

al-Sagar
July 21, 2010, 06:28 AM
we will never know what is the real success of SIDDONS unless a new coach shows what he is able to do with these group of people.

BANFAN
July 21, 2010, 07:09 AM
Equinox bhai your this sentence was hilarious:
I am technically still pro-Siddons however a helluva lot less than I was yesterday. If I don't see results soon I may convert.

I was looking over JS threads since 2007, I saw so many comments of this nature. And you say this after almost 3 years? Can you please tell me, What/how much does it take to overcome love for a person for the interest of the National team? Can you measure the damage done to the team & individual players over last three years?

Baundule
July 21, 2010, 08:25 AM
Can you please tell me, What/how much does it take to overcome love for a person for the interest of the ...

Love is blind. So, you never overcome it if you are a true lover.

magic boy
July 21, 2010, 08:54 AM
This poll will close on August 20, 2010 at 12:20 AM

why?

Peace
July 21, 2010, 09:01 AM
Love is blind. So, you never overcome it if you are a true lover.

Love is blind but variable and temporary.
It changes over time.
Blind love is true love.
True love is temporary.

Just my thought.

Raynman
July 21, 2010, 09:06 AM
Love is blind but variable and temporary.
It changes over time.
Blind love is true love.
True love is temporary.

Just my thought.

Sigh, if only Siddons had the same love for improving our cricket as you do for him :(

Peace
July 21, 2010, 09:31 AM
Sigh, if only Siddons had the same love for improving our cricket as you do for him :(

Don’t assume that people who are Pro-Siddons do not love Bangladesh cricket. It is just different perspective of love. Evidently, they think that JS is helping Bangladesh cricket but he has been made scapegoat for the recent failures. On the other hand, Ant-Siddons people think that JS is damaging Bangladesh cricket. Just a different thought process, but both Anti and Pro-Siddons love Bangladesh cricket. There is no question about it.

Tolerance of different view point is more important than challenging one’s integrity.

Raynman
July 21, 2010, 09:45 AM
Don’t assume that people who are Pro-Siddons do not love Bangladesh cricket. It is just different perspective of love. Evidently, they think that JS is helping Bangladesh cricket but he has been made scapegoat for the recent failures. On the other hand, Ant-Siddons people think that JS is damaging Bangladesh cricket. Just a different thought process, but both Anti and Pro-Siddons love Bangladesh cricket. There is no question about it.

Tolerance of different view point is more important than challenging one’s integrity.

I didn't assume pro-Siddons don't love BD cricket. I assumed that Siddons' doesn't love BD cricket. Please re-read my sentence.

I am not looking down on your love affair with Siddons and not judging you for it. I am judging Siddons for his approach and where it has brought BD cricket today. He only cares about Test style Batting from the 80s and nothing more in terms of other aspects of cricket or current formats.

Peace
July 21, 2010, 09:58 AM
I didn't assume pro-Siddons don't love BD cricket. I assumed that Siddons' doesn't love BD cricket. Please re-read my sentence.

I am not looking down on your love affair with Siddons and not judging you for it. I am judging Siddons for his approach and where it has brought BD cricket today. He only cares about Test style Batting from the 80s and nothing more in terms of other aspects of cricket or current formats.

Please re-read my last sentence (kept apart from first paragraph).

You are assuming that Siddons does not love Bangladesh cricket, hence, you are challenging his integrity.

Baundule
July 21, 2010, 10:19 AM
He only cares about Test style Batting from the 80s and nothing more in terms of other aspects of cricket or current formats.

I beg to differ on this aspect. He does not have any clue even about the test style of batting. [Not the reason for it, but he himself was never a test player]

He is just an opportunist who tries to find the 'positives' to save his job. In doing that, he always takes the safe route. In tests, he allows Shakib or Tamim playing a T20 innings (and not a test innings) without taking any responsibility of the team, because these inform guys have been successful in scoring a few 50s or 100s to their names. If they lose forms, like Shakib in recent times, JS can not help them. In tests our main motto is to occupy the crease as long as possible; but our batsmen throw their wickets away in crucial time. JS is not doing his job in the test style as well.

BANFAN
July 21, 2010, 10:34 AM
Please re-read my last sentence (kept apart from first paragraph).

You are assuming that Siddons does not love Bangladesh cricket, hence, you are challenging his integrity.

I would say he is incompetent so he isn't delivering, but the pro-siddons say he is the most competent coach we had, so the question is why he isn't delivering? Then he must be not delivering intentionally? What do you call such a man? I say lack of integrity.

Peace
July 21, 2010, 11:00 AM
I would say he is incompetent so he isn't delivering, but the pro-siddons say he is the most competent coach we had, so the question is why he isn't delivering? Then he must be not delivering intentionally? What do you call such a man? I say lack of integrity.

JS is not directly responsible for delivering the results since he relies on players to perform. You can not be sure who is not actually delivering since he relies on the players to apply his teaching and perform accordingly. Because of such dependency, it can not be established beyond reasonable doubt whether the players are under performing or the coach is not delivering. In such doubtful situation, it is not appropriate to challenge one’s integrity. You may be liable if he decides to file a damage claim against you!

Sohel
July 21, 2010, 11:46 AM
F-u-d-g-e NO!

Tiger444
July 21, 2010, 12:09 PM
I have to admit that I was wrong about Siddons and he just isn't a good coach..I actually realize now that the guy is just not head coach material and its time he gives up the job..it's time we look elsewhere..there's no excuse as to why we should lose to Netherlands..

I think it's time we compare Whatmore and Siddons and I'm sorry to say but Whatmore did better for us then Siddons did..remember when Whatmore got the team? We lost to Canada in the World Cup and we were consistently losing to sides such as Kenya and Zimbabwe..so we were pretty much at the associate level and could not even compete with Zimbabwe and Kenya forget about the other test teams..then all of a sudden he took a team that had some decent talent and not only started beating Zimbabwe and Kenya comfortably but he also beat 5 test teams during his tenure..he took an associate team to a team that distanced themselves from the associate level and also could compete with test teams..he coached the team to some big time wins like Australia, Sri Lanka, India(twice), and South Africa..now its not only the wins but the attitude of the team completely changed..the boys used to expect to lose but they started becoming fearless when he coached the team and the boys gave it their all..they came out swinging their bats at the best pace bowlers and they tried their best..its safe to say that we were on our way to becoming a team that could compete with big time teams on a regular basis..I can't forget the passion he had when he sat in the coaching box..he would get so animated whenever our boys did well and the boys really seemed so happy our there and the best thing was they were enjoying playing the game..what I liked about him is that he knew our players were not the most technically sound but he did not try to change that..he let them maintain that style of play and he accepted the fact that this is the way we play our cricket..

Now let's see Siddons..when you look at the team, we are still at the same level, a team that is still way behind the test teams and now the other associated are catching up to us..sorry but Ireland is going to surpass us soon as they are improving at a faster rate then us..we have won 3 games against the top 8 teams with him and with the talent we have we should have won a lot more then that..you guys remember the U19 team we had with Shakib, Mushy, Tamim, Mehrab and Roqibul? We were favorites for winning that world cup and not only that..they were powerhouses even though they lost in the quarterfinals..These players are all very very good players that we have but still we have managed to just win 3 games..thats just not good enough..he brought this thing that I'm gonna make a team of world class players and we're not just about Ash anymore but what has he done? Now he has made the team reliant on Tamim..so its the same exact thing..it just seems that batting improved because we have better players now..on top of that he really is misusing these players..

Raynman
July 21, 2010, 01:30 PM
JS is not directly responsible for delivering the results since he relies on players to perform. You can not be sure who is not actually delivering since he relies on the players to apply his teaching and perform accordingly. Because of such dependency, it can not be established beyond reasonable doubt whether the players are under performing or the coach is not delivering. In such doubtful situation, it is not appropriate to challenge one’s integrity. You may be liable if he decides to file a damage claim against you!

No one is asking you to take his poster down from your ceiling above your bed. But people are asking he be removed from the head coach position of our beloved BD cricket team.

Why is it that you can give a Head Coach credit for the big scores but blame the players for the losses and bad scores.

Putting the W-L record aside, do you see any planning or strategy on his part in his approach to playing our opponents other than to play safe. How do you justify his stance after the PAK loss? How can you not hold him accountable for losing to an unranked ODI team? Where did his batting lessons win us a game recently? For all the blame of the players, why don't you say the centuries were Junaid/Imrul/Shakib/Mushy/Riad's credit since it turned out to be one time event?

RazabQ
July 21, 2010, 02:24 PM
Siddons is clearly miscast. He's a batting coach and that's what should be. Perhaps the reason he did not make it into the Aussie side was precisely because he lacks that undefinable something that marks a "winner". I give him kudos for our improvements in Test batting. But he's the Head Coach and currently the team is in epic-fail mode. He has to go and along with that his enabler, the administration of Mr. Lota Kamal.

Tiger444
July 21, 2010, 02:39 PM
Siddons is clearly miscast. He's a batting coach and that's what should be. Perhaps the reason he did not make it into the Aussie side was precisely because he lacks that undefinable something that marks a "winner". I give him kudos for our improvements in Test batting. But he's the Head Coach and currently the team is in epic-fail mode. He has to go and along with that his enabler, the administration of Mr. Lota Kamal.

Whoever hired Siddons has to be faulted big time..Siddons had no prior head coaching experience..that kind of guy coaching Bangladesh spells for disaster..as you know in America assistant coaches sometimes don't pan out 1st time as coach since they don't have prior experience..we have to hire somebody with head coaching experience..especially for our boys..

Peace
July 21, 2010, 02:43 PM
No one is asking you to take his poster down from your ceiling above your bed. But people are asking he be removed from the head coach position of our beloved BD cricket team.

Why is it that you can give a Head Coach credit for the big scores but blame the players for the losses and bad scores.

Putting the W-L record aside, do you see any planning or strategy on his part in his approach to playing our opponents other than to play safe. How do you justify his stance after the PAK loss? How can you not hold him accountable for losing to an unranked ODI team? Where did his batting lessons win us a game recently? For all the blame of the players, why don't you say the centuries were Junaid/Imrul/Shakib/Mushy/Riad's credit since it turned out to be one time event?

the whole team should be given unpaid leave for six months. we will regroup after six months.I have changed my mind and siddons should go. strip off mashrafee's captaincy and tamim should take over. something is not right in the team.
...
Even though I am a Pro-Siddons in philosophical terms, I changed my mind yesterday after losing to Holland. A major failure of a team always results in cost. Regardless of whoever’s fault for the major failures, the head of the team has to go for new direction.

The team needs a new direction, the sooner, the better. ..

Raynman
July 21, 2010, 03:01 PM
Welcome Home ;)

reyme
July 21, 2010, 04:08 PM
Good to see people are finally realizing why JS is not the right person for this team. Good post Tiger444.

mij
July 21, 2010, 04:29 PM
I want Siddons to go but I don't want some worse then Siddons!

Sohel
July 21, 2010, 11:10 PM
Siddons is clearly miscast. He's a batting coach and that's what should be. Perhaps the reason he did not make it into the Aussie side was precisely because he lacks that undefinable something that marks a "winner". I give him kudos for our improvements in Test batting. But he's the Head Coach and currently the team is in epic-fail mode. He has to go and along with that his enabler, the administration of Mr. Lota Kamal.

Spot on. I think some of the improved individual performances in test batting have more to do with natural progression of individual players than anything extraordinarily positive from Sid. Doing the minimum to aid in that progression isn't something I'm willing to give him too much credit for. Many others in the team haven't improved at all and his moronic, negativist, "containment" approach has done more harm than good to the team. It is all about the numbers in the "W" column in the end, period. Charitable behavior towards bad hires, especially of the "right" nationality, is something we can ill afford in light of all the other ugly realities stagnating the reasonable development of our cricket.

al Furqaan
July 21, 2010, 11:47 PM
Spot on. I think some of the improved individual performances in test batting have more to do with natural progression of individual players than anything extraordinarily positive from Sid. Doing the minimum to aid in that progression isn't something I'm willing to give him too much credit for. Many others in the team haven't improved at all and his moronic, negativist, "containment" approach has done more harm than good to the team. It is all about the numbers in the "W" column in the end, period. Charitable behavior towards bad hires, especially of the "right" nationality, is something we can ill afford in light of all the other ugly realities stagnating the reasonable development of our cricket.

i'm going ot differ a bit here...

Tamim - slight improvement (due to Siddons), overall HUGE improvement.
Shakib - in bad touch right now, but had developed quite well under JS
Mushfiq - improved a lot, how much is due to siddons and how much natural is unknown
Riyad - had improved quite a bit up till NZ tour
Junaid - huge improvement, completely due to Siddons
Imrul - hugely improved, likely also due completely to siddons
Naeem - too early to tell
Raqibul - been away for too long to tell
Jahirul - to new to say...but if he improves in the next year, likely will be due to Siddons

Aftab and Ash - zero improvement, actually both got worse, unknown if it was the Siddons effect

view360
July 21, 2010, 11:51 PM
i'm going ot differ a bit here...

Tamim - slight improvement (due to Siddons), overall HUGE improvement.
Shakib - in bad touch right now, but had developed quite well under JS
Mushfiq - improved a lot, how much is due to siddons and how much natural is unknown
Riyad - had improved quite a bit up till NZ tour
Junaid - huge improvement, completely due to Siddons
Imrul - hugely improved, likely also due completely to siddons
Naeem - too early to tell
Raqibul - been away for too long to tell
Jahirul - to new to say...but if he improves in the next year, likely will be due to Siddons

Aftab and Ash - zero improvement, actually both got worse, unknown if it was the Siddons effect

Verdict :
1. He has carried out each and every one of his duties to his entire satisfaction. - He would be out of his depth in a car park puddle.
2.He has the wisdom of youth, and the energy of old age.
3.Works well when under constant supervision and cornered like a rat in a trap
4.His men would follow him anywhere, but only out of curiosity.

One World
July 21, 2010, 11:53 PM
It is all about the numbers in the "W" column in the end, period.


Surely now it reads for a match preview as LWLWL
which looks much better than playing England home and away and then horrible Asia cup. Personal achievement my foot.

ahnaf
July 22, 2010, 02:44 AM
Tomra shobai jevabe coach er pichone lagcho jeno coach soralei solution hobe.. Ai porajoye coach er day 20% r BCB r 80%.. But tomra kew otar care korcho na.. Ata niye tomader kono matha batha nei???

BANFAN
July 22, 2010, 03:36 AM
i'm going ot differ a bit here...

Tamim - slight improvement (due to Siddons), overall HUGE improvement. - He was left alone So No JS input
Shakib - in bad touch right now, but had developed quite well under JS - Shakib had an wonderful debu befor JS and he went on to peak before JS could intervene, Now we can only expect he gets over this prolonged bad touch alone. If JS could help, it woul dhave been over
Mushfiq - improved a lot, how much is due to siddons and how much natural is unknown - He was better when he started and IMO he hasn't improved from there
Riyad - had improved quite a bit up till NZ tour - Back to what he was
Junaid - huge improvement, completely due to Siddons - I can't say it is due to JS, he was out of the team and JS doesn't have time for outside Natl Team
Imrul - hugely improved, likely also due completely to siddons - If you see his style of playing, nothing has changed in skills, due to continued chances he has learnt to watch the ball a bit more, so he is getting success, but his batting is still as crappy as it was
Naeem - too early to tell ??
Raqibul - been away for too long to tell - Rok is whatever he was
Jahirul - to new to say...but if he improves in the next year, likely will be due to Siddons - He already has shown promise, hit a couple of good scores in this series, even natural progression from this point should make him a essential batsman for the team

Aftab and Ash - zero improvement, actually both got worse, unknown if it was the Siddons effect -Aftab I can't say, but Ash has been ruined by Siddons and there is a thread on this while He was experimenting with Ash. Although some were paisingJS for trying to force Ash bat against his natural abilities. But it was predicted by some including me that it will ruin him and Ash is going to forget his way of batting the the JS way both and it did come true, You may revisit the thread of 2007

I agree with Sohel NR, there is development of any player at this level, through natural process. f we add their expected progress in last 3 years to what they were at debut, you hardly find JS in that equation of development, infact you might find negative growth to a number of players. JS can be held responsible for negative development of these guys as well. There are quiet a few examples of these as well.

Tigers_eye
July 22, 2010, 06:48 AM
With the poor domestic set up natural progression does not occur in BD players. batting and bowling. Starting with oldies to SN, NI, AAA to the newbies on batting side. bowling side we should not even discuss. SH, Rasel and so many others should have progressed by this time.

Equinox
July 22, 2010, 11:51 AM
Tamim - He was left alone So No JS input

"He said if I took a wide stance, like Graeme Smith for instance, I would be halfway to the ball already and I'd save myself time when getting on the front foot. If you see him at practice, he's a fantastic batting coach and a brilliant fielding coach as well, the best I've ever seen." - Tamim Iqbal Khan

I agree with Sohel NR, there is development of any player at this level, through natural process. f we add their expected progress in last 3 years to what they were at debut, you hardly find JS in that equation of development, infact you might find negative growth to a number of players. JS can be held responsible for negative development of these guys as well. There are quiet a few examples of these as well.
Natural progression theory is pure BS. Is it just a co-incidence that Siddons' core group of batsmen, the less talented ones Zunaed, Imrul, Rokibul have improved leaps and bounds whereas the development of SN, Aftab and Nafees Iqbal (who haven't worked with JS as much) remain stationary or has deteriorated? They are equally if not more talented than them.

Siddons as a head coach is a bit iffy but his batting credentials can not be questioned.

Murad
July 22, 2010, 12:04 PM
Imrul used to bat like this before coming to national team. js might have helped him how to leave/play short balls. same thing for junaed. i don't think he improved anything else for these two batsmen.

crediting js for everything these players improved is just not fair to them.

Ajfar
July 22, 2010, 01:00 PM
Murad bhai you cant honestly tell me Big Z just randomly started looking this good. He was completely out of touch after that 85 against NZ and he was out of the ODI team for a while. But he was still part of the test team therefore Im sure JS spend some time with him going over his batting flaws. Im not saying JS taught Big Z how to bat but whatever major or minor issues he went over with him did wonders for him down the road. I wanna see JS gone just like everybody else but we should give at least the credit he deserves. It makes me wonder if players like Big Z recieved this sort of coaching 5 years or so ago where would we be as a team right now.
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BanCricFan
July 22, 2010, 01:09 PM
With the poor domestic set up natural progression does not occur in BD players. batting and bowling. Starting with oldies to SN, NI, AAA to the newbies on batting side. bowling side we should not even discuss. SH, Rasel and so many others should have progressed by this time.

The "hike" in batting performance in Test is, primarily, due to the trio of Tamim, shakib and Mushfique. You will find they were world beaters at the U19 level. They simply have graduated successfully and have brought their winning/confident mentality to the senior level. Now, if I'm not mistaking these three, along with others such as Raqibul, were fashioned and moulded by Richard McInnes. Credit should go where its due. Lets not forget, the exceptional talent of Shakib, Tamim and Mushfiq (as a bat) injected in the world and BD cricket will bound to have a positve correlation in result and performance. Sure, Siddons have done some fine tuning and he is expected to do so. Interestingly, the performance of Ashraful under Siddons is dire or nothing short of a calamity, yet ashraful is, probably, even better talent than the trio.

Hopefully, you will choose to see the theory of "natural/gradual progression" from this perspective. :)

Murad
July 22, 2010, 01:11 PM
Ajfar, I like giving credits where its due. Junaed had only one problem. That is playing against the short pitched balls. Siddons helped him overcome this problem, so credits goes to him. Now tell me what else he changed? Do you see any other changes in Junaed's batting?

Dilscoop
July 22, 2010, 01:16 PM
Siddons as a head coach is a bit iffy but his batting credentials can not be questioned.
And no one is questioning that. "Anti-JS" wants him to leave for his clueless head-coaching.

I already said (last post / pagee 1) there is a huge confusion and agreement with Anti-Pro. Most from the both sides agrees that he is a decent batting coach, but he is not a good head coach. And that's why anti wants him to leave. And pros keep bringing up how he has improved the batting. Why? No 1 says he hasn't. We are not talking about batting.

Tiger444
July 22, 2010, 01:19 PM
Murad bhai you cant honestly tell me Big Z just randomly started looking this good. He was completely out of touch after that 85 against NZ and he was out of the ODI team for a while. But he was still part of the test team therefore Im sure JS spend some time with him going over his batting flaws. Im not saying JS taught Big Z how to bat but whatever major or minor issues he went over with him did wonders for him down the road. I wanna see JS gone just like everybody else but we should give at least the credit he deserves. It makes me wonder if players like Big Z recieved this sort of coaching 5 years or so ago where would we be as a team right now.
<br />Posted via BC Mobile Edition (iPhone)

Ya JS has to get credit for turning some of these very raw players in to decent international batsmen..Zunaed looked so lost at 1st in international cricket especially in ODIs..he was really confused with simple aspects of the game..of course JS has been a bad coach but he has to receive some credit for these batsmen's improvement..a big problem is that our system is doing enough for these talented players..they really needed to learn these simple aspects of the game before they came in to international cricket..why do we need the national team coach to teach them the basics? Ya we need a good coach but we have to improve our setup.. If we don't improve our setup then we'll see the same BD..

MohammedC
July 22, 2010, 01:34 PM
Ajfar, I like giving credits where its due. Junaed had only one problem. That is playing against the short pitched balls. Siddons helped him overcome this problem, so credits goes to him. Now tell me what else he changed? Do you see any other changes in Junaed's batting?

I can see Junedge's cover drive getting better.

Ajfar
July 22, 2010, 02:07 PM
Ajfar, I like giving credits where its due. Junaed had only one problem. That is playing against the short pitched balls. Siddons helped him overcome this problem, so credits goes to him. Now tell me what else he changed? Do you see any other changes in Junaed's batting?

Murad bhai his improvement when playing the short ball is very visible because thats how he used get out most of the time. Im sure there are minor changes. Unfortunately my batting knowledge are very limited so i cant really point out major details. I commented on what I saw and to me it seemed like whatever he has been working on in the nets seems to be worki g out for him.
<br />Posted via BC Mobile Edition (iPhone)

metallian
July 22, 2010, 02:16 PM
who is pro siddons and WHY? should this even be a poll? siddons sucks

Equinox
July 22, 2010, 02:54 PM
And no one is questioning that.

Well BANFAN clearly is. When the player himself is prepared to give credit to the coach we are sitting here being matabbors and working out "theories."

Where did I credit JS for everything? The main credit should always go to the player. Coach is there to work with the player and find solutions to improve his performance. It is up to the player to actually go and perform. And full credit to Zunaed and Imrul for doing that. I talked about Siddons role because last time I checked this thread was about Siddons.

As for improvement in Zunaed's batting as has already been mentioned: Leaves the ball confidently, drives the ball much better and is much more comfortable on the back foot these days.

shuziburo
July 22, 2010, 03:18 PM
JS might be a good batting coach for a team, but he is not a good team coach. It took JS a while to convince me, but he finally did. By his diligent efforts.

One World
July 23, 2010, 01:16 AM
I am convinced that JS does not understand ODI let alone T20's.

Awla
July 23, 2010, 01:47 AM
JS is not a head-coach material....He doesn't know how to motivate players,,Whatmore was very good at that aspect...
Improvement of Tamim and rise of Shakib as a test bowler,,these are the only good things that happened during JS period...
Negative points:
*not an motivational coach
*often delivers rubbish comments in press-briefing which is uninspiring 4 players
*didn't build a formidable strategy for ODI/T20
*during his period..team spirit has gone down
*Losing to associate nations..at least Whatmore ensured that we don't lose against associate countries

reyme
July 23, 2010, 04:47 AM
Siddons has given the sole authority to select the final 11. His reaction says it all, the team is losing to an unranked associate team, he was unmoved during and after the game.

The man simply does not care. Exactly, he is just robbing the huge salary from a poor country and in the process taking down our cricket to a point from which we may never be able to recover. Everybody can question our test status after losing to 2 associate teams in days, while giving ODI status to Netherlands in the process.

I wonder what will Siddons will say after we are officially lose our test status! We never deserved test staus but give another contrcat extension to Siddon with a Billion $ bonus! Shame on Siddons for his continous shameful comedy and BCB to continue to persue with this idiot.
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