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al Furqaan
September 24, 2010, 03:36 AM
http://www.cricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/478473.html

2nd best test spinner in the world at the moment, the best left armer around. well behind Graeme Swann statistically.

while his ODI averages are quite poor, Sakib still has a very good economy rate, which is probably more important.

I really hope to see him bring his Test average under 30 within a few years.

simon
September 24, 2010, 04:58 AM
It feels great to recall the memories of the series between BD & Eng ,when Tamim was hitting Swann all over the ground.E-)
I think in recent times Tamim was the only batsman who kinda outplayed Swann.:)
Other than that Sakib also outplayed Vettori.:)
But Swann since 2009 has been outstanding and almost overshadowed our Sak.:(
But I'm still proud of the Bossman.:):flag:

shakibrulz
September 24, 2010, 06:28 AM
It feels great to recall the memories of the series between BD & Eng ,when Tamim was hitting Swann all over the ground.E-)
I think in recent times Tamim was the only batsman who kinda outplayed Swann.:)
Other than that Sakib also outplayed Vettori.:)
But Swann since 2009 has been outstanding and almost overshadowed our Sak.:(
But I'm still proud of the Bossman.:):flag:

About Tamim taking swannie to the cleaners - that's precisely why I think Swann is a tad overrated. Whenever Swann picks wickets, mostly batsmen try to just play through his overs without scoring at that gives him more confidence to flight the ball. But when he gets smashed, he errs a bit in flight and length. Just my views tho. The same happened when Umar Akmal attacked swann in the final test too.

About Shakib being overshadowed by Swannie, I agree, he's a little bit out of touch these days. But hadthe fielders did a bit better (eng is one of the top fielding sides) Shaks would've had better figures for sure.

Lets see how he fares vs Kiwis with the bat and more importantly with the ball.

Roni_uk
September 24, 2010, 06:45 AM
is there any stats about who scored the most runs while Swan bowling?

beshideshi
September 24, 2010, 08:34 AM
Well, English media always boasts their players, they made Monty the new Warne. Swann is a very, very good spinner, but I have to agree with Shakibrulz and say Swannie is a bit over-rated. A few days ago, I also thought he was a great spinner and is well above any other spinners in the current fold.
but then I looked at the last couple of Eng-Pak odi's very closely, and must say, Swann did not bowl good enough to get 3-26 and 4-37. I think the Pakistani batsmen played him the worst possible way, mostly they just wanted to get rid of Swann's overs and got into a shell as soon as he came on to bowl and suddenly one of them will have a brain fart and play a ridiculous shot. Swann is undoubtedly a great bowler, but he is not as far ahead as everyone else as the the stats want you to believe. Put Shakib/Bhajji/Vettori in the English line up and they will pick up wickets like muri-murki.

lamisa
September 24, 2010, 08:59 AM
i could sort of guess that...

shakibrulz
September 24, 2010, 09:25 AM
Well, English media always boasts their players, they made Monty the new Warne. Swann is a very, very good spinner, but I have to agree with Shakibrulz and say Swannie is a bit over-rated. A few days ago, I also thought he was a great spinner and is well above any other spinners in the current fold.
but then I looked at the last couple of Eng-Pak odi's very closely, and must say, Swann did not bowl good enough to get 3-26 and 4-37. I think the Pakistani batsmen played him the worst possible way, mostly they just wanted to get rid of Swann's overs and got into a shell as soon as he came on to bowl and suddenly one of them will have a brain fart and play a ridiculous shot. Swann is undoubtedly a great bowler, but he is not as far ahead as everyone else as the the stats want you to believe. Put Shakib/Bhajji/Vettori in the English line up and they will pick up wickets like muri-murki.

Was about to say this besh. English and Aussie media are No. 1 in hyping up players
LOL imagine how crappy players like steve smith is hyped by the Aussie media :lol:
But don't get me wrong, Swann is really class. But still he's overhyped a lil too much these days.

I don't have high regards for Vettori, and Bhajji is crap nowdays :( But put Shaks in England/Oz team and he'll be hyped as the next Gary Sobers.

Tigers_eye
September 24, 2010, 11:01 AM
Soon Swann would be out of the team. Too much off-field troubles plus Yardy becoming a handy spinner. Barring Vettori's maturity no one can touch Shakib.

RazabQ
September 24, 2010, 12:36 PM
@Tigers-eye : Hardly. Yardy is not replacing Swann any time soon. Yardy is more of a Bangladeshi SLA in that he skids the ball in more than relying on RPMs. Speaking of RPMs, the thing that Swann has got going for him is that, in current times, he's the biggest ripper of the ball. Can't recall the article but apparently there's a technology that measures RPMs imparted to a ball by a spinner and Swann is tops at the world right now. Yes like any spinner he can be put off his length if you have a player who is good at playing the slog-sweep. Spinners rely on pitching the ball at a point where you are not sure whether to come forward or go back; by dint of dip/loop/flight, he's trying to trick the batsman and Swann's handy overspin is very good at getting that. When you slog sweep you basically force the spinner to shorten his length and that in turn improves your chances of playing him off the pitch/later.

I agree that Swann is no Warne when it comes to reading batsmen or Kumble when it comes to toughness or Murali when it comes to wizardry, but he is the spinner most capable of bowling an unplayable delivery right now. Go back to how he bowled Ponting in the 2009 Ashes or how he bowled Yousuf in the recent ODI. His accolades are well deserved and in this current streak/form, I suspect he'll be a handful in the bouncy pitches of Australia. Other than Clarke, and maybe Punters, none of the other batsmen are "twinkle-toed" and only Hussey can execute the slog sweep with any consistency.

roman
September 24, 2010, 01:36 PM
<FIELDSET>

Shakib's figures tell the story




</FIELDSET>
http://www.thedailystar.net/photo/2010/09/25/2010-09-25__sports02.jpg (http://www.thedailystar.net/newDesign/photo_gallery.php?pid=155827)<SMALL class=fixedcap>SHAKIB AL HASAN</SMALL>Sports Reporter
While England off-spinner Graeme Swann is having the best phase of his career, Shakib Al Hasan is not far behind.
In Test match cricket, the left-arm spinner has had a splendid two years when he took 45 wickets at an average of 33.0 with a strike rate of 67.7.
He is followed by off-spinners Nathan Hauritz and Harbhajan Singh and left-arm spinner Rangana Herath.
Shakib has also taken 25 wickets from 21 one-day matches since January 2009 against the top eight teams. Australian Hauritz has taken the most wickets (50) while Swann has the best average (24.29).
But in a list of spinners bowling in the middle overs (16th to 40th) in ODIs against the top eight teams during the same period, Shakib averages 40 and has taken just 13 wickets, though he has a good economy rate.
The good showing in the last two years has meant that Shakib has maintained his position in the top of the ICC ODI all-rounders' ranking with 382 points, despite sharing the place with Pakistan captain Shahid Afridi for a while.
He's also the second-best ODI bowler and test all-rounder

MarufH
September 24, 2010, 03:24 PM
Shakib rulez!

kalpurush
September 24, 2010, 07:09 PM
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I love Ice Man I love Ice Man I love Ice Man I love Ice Man I love Ice Man<o:p></o:p>
I love Ice Man I love Ice Man I love Ice Man I love Ice Man I love Ice Man<o:p></o:p>
I love Ice Man I love Ice Man I love Ice Man I love Ice Man I love Ice Man
<o:p>I love Ice Man I love Ice Man I love Ice Man I love Ice Man I love Ice Man<o:p></o:p>
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Baundule
September 25, 2010, 05:54 AM
Monty is a better spinner that Swann; but he is the step-son of the British media. And if you want, S. Rajesh can make even Ashraful a hero. For example, take his two or three innings in 2005 and during that particular time period he may look better than Tendu.

Shakib has been the only consistent bowler in our line-up for a reasonable period of time and he is second only to Vettori.

shakibrulz
September 25, 2010, 06:15 AM
I agree that Swann is no Warne when it comes to reading batsmen or Kumble when it comes to toughness or Murali when it comes to wizardry, but he is the spinner most capable of bowling an unplayable delivery right now. Go back to how he bowled Ponting in the 2009 Ashes or how he bowled Yousuf in the recent ODI. His accolades are well deserved and in this current streak/form, I suspect he'll be a handful in the bouncy pitches of Australia. Other than Clarke, and maybe Punters, none of the other batsmen are "twinkle-toed" and only Hussey can execute the slog sweep with any consistency.

Taking nothing away from Swann. And Yardy is rubbish compared to Swannie. But:

1. Swann played most of his matches in England. English pitches are turning squares these days. Ashes and Indias tour of England will give us a clear picture.

2. Punter sucks against spin, even Bhajji can get him out with his darts on a pancake.

3. I bet if he bowls in India, SL etc his figures will look a lot worser.

Agree with the rest. Swann's the best in the business right now.

shakibrulz
September 25, 2010, 06:29 AM
Monty is a better spinner that Swann; but he is the step-son of the British media. And if you want, S. Rajesh can make even Ashraful a hero. For example, take his two or three innings in 2005 and during that particular time period he may look better than Tendu.

Shakib has been the only consistent bowler in our line-up for a reasonable period of time and he is second only to Vettori.

Monty>Swann? :o

Huda
September 25, 2010, 06:40 AM
Taking nothing away from Swann. And Yardy is rubbish compared to Swannie. But:

1. Swann played most of his matches in England. English pitches are turning squares these days. Ashes and Indias tour of England will give us a clear picture.

2. Punter sucks against spin, even Bhajji can get him out with his darts on a pancake.

3. I bet if he bowls in India, SL etc his figures will look a lot worser.

Agree with the rest. Swann's the best in the business right now.

English pitches turning sqaure? What BS is that? Show me one game this summer where the ball has regularly turned sqaure in england. I watch England as much as a i watch BD cricket, Swann relies on flight and length, pace off the ball rather than turn to get his wickets. In England apart from Old trafford the pitches are still more conducive to seam bowling as we have SEEN all this SUMMER rather than spin bowling. He often also gets his wickets in the first innings, where the ball does not aid the spinner as much. He is a very clever bowler. Spinners need to be mature and experience, Shakib will get this over time.

shakibrulz
September 25, 2010, 06:59 AM
English pitches turning sqaure? What BS is that? Show me one game this summer where the ball has regularly turned sqaure in england. I watch England as much as a i watch BD cricket, Swann relies on flight and length, pace off the ball rather than turn to get his wickets. In England apart from Old trafford the pitches are still more conducive to seam bowling as we have SEEN all this SUMMER rather than spin bowling. He often also gets his wickets in the first innings, where the ball does not aid the spinner as much. He is a very clever bowler. Spinners need to be mature and experience, Shakib will get this over time.

29.4 Swann to Shoaib Malik, no run, plays forward, big turn and it lobs off the pad to short leg 33.1

33.1 Swann to Shoaib Malik, no run, oh, big turn again! Perhaps a little inside edge onto the pad and it lobs safely forward of slip

Swann to Zulqarnain Haider, no run, A king pair? Steve Davis gives him lbw! Oh, but Haider wants a review and it's a good call. This one stayed low but to the naked eye it appeared to be turning too much, and HawkEye confirms that would have missed leg

Swann to Zulqarnain Haider, no run, turns sharply in and Haider defends


This is from the 2nd test where swann got his 6fer against pakistan. And there's a LOT LOT more.

And even Ajmal who cant turn the ball to save his life got good turn while he bowled a touch slower:

Saeed Ajmal to Pietersen, 4 leg byes, 81.7 kph, oh, Pietersen gets even more good fortune! That is a lovely delivery that beats Pietersen in flight - it's much slower at 52mph - and turns sharply through the gate only to just miss leg stump and it also beats the keeper


Now who's talking BS here?

lamisa
September 25, 2010, 07:32 AM
shakibrulz,are u going to love iceman as much when he takes down the indian lineup during the opening game in the WC?;)

Tigers_eye
September 25, 2010, 08:23 AM
Swann can't hold Shakib's right feet's keni angul.
What ever swann's #s are, switch teams. We will see who is the boss then. I mean how many paddy make how many chal?

Character wise swann needs a shrink. I am glad we have Shakib and not pati hhash.

BASSMAN
September 25, 2010, 09:02 AM
I think England introduced the reviewing system with the Pakis cuz they wanted Swann to get more wickets.

shakibrulz
September 25, 2010, 09:15 AM
shakibrulz,are u going to love iceman as much when he takes down the indian lineup during the opening game in the WC?;)

:-|

I'll support India for sure but would like Ice to get away with decent figures :-p

shakibrulz
September 25, 2010, 09:18 AM
Swann can't hold Shakib's right feet's keni angul.
What ever swann's #s are, switch teams. We will see who is the boss then. I mean how many paddy make how many chal?

Character wise swann needs a shrink. I am glad we have Shakib and not pati hhash.

Swann's tweets are great :-D

I think England introduced the reviewing system with the Pakis cuz they wanted Swann to get more wickets.
Ah.. But both teams should voluntarily agree to implement UDRS. And it's been beneficial to Pak anyways. :smug:


Lots of Worcs supporters are browsing the forum here, so watch out. :-D

Huda
September 25, 2010, 03:04 PM
This is from the 2nd test where swann got his 6fer against pakistan. And there's a LOT LOT more.

And even Ajmal who cant turn the ball to save his life got good turn while he bowled a touch slower:


Now who's talking BS here?

You are. Have you seen pitches in Kandy, they are dust bowls where the ball turns square on a regular basis. If you think English pitches do, then you are in cuckoo land. You have chosen odd instances where the ball will turn when the pitche wears on days 4, or the 2nd innings. If you ask any English fan they will tell you about English pitches and Swann's assets. He does not relie on turn to get wickets, if you watch the MAJORITY of his wickets they are not due from huge spin. I can give you many of his wickets that have come from varying flight and pace, just cricinfo it yourself

al Furqaan
September 25, 2010, 06:19 PM
You are. Have you seen pitches in Kandy, they are dust bowls where the ball turns square on a regular basis. If you think English pitches do, then you are in cuckoo land. You have chosen odd instances where the ball will turn when the pitche wears on days 4, or the 2nd innings. If you ask any English fan they will tell you about English pitches and Swann's assets. He does not relie on turn to get wickets, if you watch the MAJORITY of his wickets they are not due from huge spin. I can give you many of his wickets that have come from varying flight and pace, just cricinfo it yourself

english pitches have been turning a lot lately...a lot more that the typical subcontinent pitch where even 5th day 400 runs can be scored with ease. they are making good sporting pitches. seam and swing available to pacers and turn and bounce available to spinners.

bounce is very under-estimated IMO for spinners. a nice bouncy track can make spinners that much more deadly.

simon
September 25, 2010, 06:26 PM
:-|

I'll support India for sure but would like Ice to get away with decent figures :-p

I think u want Ice man to get the tail enders,right.:p

FagunerAgun
September 25, 2010, 07:08 PM
Still the Ice Man has lot of opportunities for growth, hope that will be persistent and sustainable in the long run in managing our expectation in all forms of cricket.

Neel Here
September 25, 2010, 07:56 PM
shakibrulz, swann has already played 2 tests in India and averaged 39.50
it wasn't a particularly high-scoring series either.

Monty is a better spinner that Swann; but he is the step-son of the British media. And if you want, S. Rajesh can make even Ashraful a hero. For example, take his two or three innings in 2005 and during that particular time period he may look better than Tendu.
actually monty was supported a lot by brit media but just didn't deliver the goods.
he had the talent but never matured. kind of like an ashraful if you ask me.

beshideshi
September 25, 2010, 09:43 PM
You are. Have you seen pitches in Kandy, they are dust bowls where the ball turns square on a regular basis. If you think English pitches do, then you are in cuckoo land. You have chosen odd instances where the ball will turn when the pitche wears on days 4, or the 2nd innings. If you ask any English fan they will tell you about English pitches and Swann's assets. He does not relie on turn to get wickets, if you watch the MAJORITY of his wickets they are not due from huge spin. I can give you many of his wickets that have come from varying flight and pace, just cricinfo it yourself

The thing with English pitches are, they have sharp turn. Compare that to a slow, low turning pitch of Kandy, where the batsman has plenty of time to see the turn and play with it.
Sharp turn, though it might be lesser than the slow turn, is more dangerous. I think you should have a look at the Lord's test, or basically any other test this summer[4th, 5th day] and you will see what I am talking about.

kalpurush
September 25, 2010, 10:12 PM
Swann can't hold Shakib's right feet's keni angul.
What ever swann's #s are, switch teams. We will see who is the boss then. I mean how many paddy make how many chal?

Character wise swann needs a shrink. I am glad we have Shakib and not pati hhash.
Hok kotha koichhen Mijan Bhai :)

shakibrulz
September 25, 2010, 10:57 PM
You are. Have you seen pitches in Kandy, they are dust bowls where the ball turns square on a regular basis. If you think English pitches do, then you are in cuckoo land.
[- edited -] So anything that turns less than kandy aint turning squares in your dictionary right? [ - edited - ]

You have chosen odd instances where the ball will turn when the pitche wears on days 4, or the 2nd innings.Oh yeah? This was day 2:

<object width="480" height="385">


<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/YaGWOvWMDDc?fs=1&hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></object>

Notice the MASSIVE turn and rough marks. If you still believe English pitches don't turn, I'm not gonna entertain you from here on.

If you ask any English fan they will tell you about English pitches and Swann's assets. He does not relie on turn to get wickets, if you watch the MAJORITY of his wickets they are not due from huge spin. I can give you many of his wickets that have come from varying flight and pace, just cricinfo it yourself[- edited -] This pace variations and flight are what every good spinner does. That doesn't mean he doesn't get assistance from the surface does it? He mostly played against relatively weaker players of spin/weaker teams themselves at home, where the pitch turns sharply. [- edited -]

shakibrulz
September 25, 2010, 11:02 PM
shakibrulz, swann has already played 2 tests in India and averaged 39.50
it wasn't a particularly high-scoring series either.
.
LOL sure Neel, what's the need to state the obvious here. But to be fair to him, that was his debut series. It'd be interesting though how he bowls against us when we tour England. Anyways lets see how he performs in Oz at home, (who are weaker players of spin though sans clarke) :-p

The thing with English pitches are, they have sharp turn. Compare that to a slow, low turning pitch of Kandy, where the batsman has plenty of time to see the turn and play with it.
Sharp turn, though it might be lesser than the slow turn, is more dangerous. I think you should have a look at the Lord's test, or basically any other test this summer[4th, 5th day] and you will see what I am talking about.

4th & 5th day bd? Heck the ball turns sharp in the 2nd freaking day! And still some are not convinced that there's sharp turn in English wickets. :doh:

shakibrulz
September 25, 2010, 11:06 PM
I think u want Ice man to get the tail enders,right.:p

That means top order falls to Mash and co? Hell NO! We're gonna score 300+ but Ice will get away with economy <5 rpo and maybe a couple of wickets :-D

al-Sagar
September 26, 2010, 03:05 AM
Shakib's figures tell the story

Sports Reporter
While England off-spinner Graeme Swann is having the best phase of his career, Shakib Al Hasan is not far behind.
In Test match cricket, the left-arm spinner has had a splendid two years when he took 45 wickets at an average of 33.0 with a strike rate of 67.7.
He is followed by off-spinners Nathan Hauritz and Harbhajan Singh and left-arm spinner Rangana Herath.
Shakib has also taken 25 wickets from 21 one-day matches since January 2009 against the top eight teams. Australian Hauritz has taken the most wickets (50) while Swann has the best average (24.29).
But in a list of spinners bowling in the middle overs (16th to 40th) in ODIs against the top eight teams during the same period, Shakib averages 40 and has taken just 13 wickets, though he has a good economy rate.
The good showing in the last two years has meant that Shakib has maintained his position in the top of the ICC ODI all-rounders' ranking with 382 points, despite sharing the place with Pakistan captain Shahid Afridi for a while.
He's also the second-best ODI bowler and test all-rounder

no vettori ???

anyway if any body can prove SWANN is as good as WARNE MURALI or KUMBLE then i can prove Suhrawardi Shuvo is as good as Shakib or Rafiq.

anyway Swann is still not anything close to what Harbhajan is capable of.

n

shakibrulz
September 26, 2010, 03:34 AM
no vettori ???

anyway if any body can prove SWANN is as good as WARNE MURALI or KUMBLE then i can prove Suhrawardi Shuvo is as good as Shakib or Rafiq.

anyway Swann is still not anything close to what Harbhajan is capable of.


Swann at the moment is the best spinner, that's mainly because of lack of competition. Not that he's in the league of the big 3. Bhajji sucks these days but Swann didn't do anything close to what Bhajji did during his prime for us.

Vettori is a good allrounder, but a vastly overrated here as a spinner.
Average against teams:
Australia 36.45
Bangladesh 16.06
England 36.62
India 54.81
Pakistan 54.64
South Africa 69.44
Sri Lanka 23.63
West Indies 25.85
Zimbabwe 30.65

Vettori's Average in Aus = 39.97, India = 51.53, NZ 36.11, Pak = 178.11, SA = 63.83.

Nothing remotely impressive there.

lamisa
September 26, 2010, 04:27 AM
basically england always produces good wickets which supports pacers but lately they have started producing wickets which help spinners too.

shakibrulz
September 26, 2010, 04:39 AM
basically england always produces good wickets which supports pacers but lately they have started producing wickets which help spinners too.

Seems like everyone but one guy is convinced about this :doh:

al-Sagar
September 26, 2010, 08:36 PM
Seems like everyone but one guy is convinced about this :doh:

there are some pitches in england which turns even more than the typical SubContinent Dust Bowls. adding to that the Bounce and pace is more in those pitches.