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shakibrulz
October 20, 2010, 10:59 PM
No cricket for about a month so back to off topic discussions.

Which of this domestic tournaments will you prefer your players to be in?

County cricket supposedly helps improve one's quality as a cricketer.

IPL gives the players more attention and in effect to BD cricket itself. Also improves slogging abilities.

So which one would you prefer? Why? (Please leave your hate out and make an unbiased choice please)

Habib
October 20, 2010, 11:05 PM
Easy question. Obviously county cricket is better. Just look at Shakib. I'm so glad he got chance to play in county before IPL. It helped him to reach a certain level of maturity.
And the only thing Ashraful learned from IPL is that Tendulkar doesn't practice before a game. What a joke.

max410
October 21, 2010, 12:57 AM
Ipl is t20 county cricket has better facilities i hope for skill development

BANFAN
October 21, 2010, 02:12 AM
No to IPL

Naimul_Hd
October 21, 2010, 02:20 AM
IPL is a picnic game. just for fun and glamour whereas County is the real office deal.

lamisa
October 21, 2010, 02:40 AM
obviously county!county is more respectable than ipl.players actually learn a lot about the game in general in county...

MohammedC
October 21, 2010, 02:49 AM
County no doubt.

And the things are going in IPL. Major investors will be running away from that game because BCCI making thing bit more difficult.

shakibrulz
October 21, 2010, 03:40 AM
There is no question that county is 'classier' than IPL.

But IPL means more exposure and fame - which is good for BD cricket ultimately.

Neel Here
October 21, 2010, 04:17 AM
the answer should be both and not either/or.

ammark
October 21, 2010, 04:23 AM
There is no question that county is 'classier' than IPL.

But IPL means more exposure and fame - which is good for BD cricket ultimately.

Its not about class. India has the Ranji Trophy and Aus has the Sheffield Shield which along with county cricket are the settings for the highest calibre domestic cricket in the world. Which Indian IPL player has left his mark coming fresh without having played the Ranji and Duleep trophies?

The degree of professionalism, stamina, training, competitiveness, temperament and learning is what defines first class cricket. County cricket is the ultimate venue before test cricket that cricketers can prove their worth and skill. The Ranji trophy and the Sheffield Shield would be too, only if greater numbers of foreign players were allowed there. A first class competition is what exposes players to the changing dynamics of four day games that is divided into sessions, each requiring certain strategies, skills and temperament.

Twenty20 IPL is a joke, its just fanfare and glitz that has the masters of world cricket giving orgasmic delight through hard hitting, and fast paced gameplay. But the spirit of cricket lives in first class and Test cricket.

Bangladesh's domestic first class structure is so weak, that we should not aim for IPL to raise our profile. We dont have a Ranji or Duleep like competitive structure that will sustain high quality professional cricket. Which is why access to county cricket is an ultimate dream our players should aspire for.

All great players of the past have played county cricket, or at least the highest calibre first class cricket that their home country offers. Its because those great players have achieved all in their lives that they are in demand for IPL. The crowds go to see Tendulkar for the Mumbai Indians, not some no-name player in KKR. And Tendulkar after all played Duleep, Ranji & then India to become such an item in IPL. It wouldnt work if all players started going for IPL, discarding Duleep, Ranji and Test cricket first.

hoax
October 21, 2010, 04:32 AM
Is there a comparison???...county

we dont need our players 2 carry drinks in the Indian Paysa League

shakibrulz
October 21, 2010, 04:58 AM
Its not about class. India has the Ranji Trophy and Aus has the Sheffield Shield which along with county cricket are the settings for the highest calibre domestic cricket in the world. Which Indian IPL player has left his mark coming fresh without having played the Ranji and Duleep trophies?

The degree of professionalism, stamina, training, competitiveness, temperament and learning is what defines first class cricket. County cricket is the ultimate venue before test cricket that cricketers can prove their worth and skill. The Ranji trophy and the Sheffield Shield would be too, only if greater numbers of foreign players were allowed there. A first class competition is what exposes players to the changing dynamics of four day games that is divided into sessions, each requiring certain strategies, skills and temperament.

Twenty20 IPL is a joke, its just fanfare and glitz that has the masters of world cricket giving orgasmic delight through hard hitting, and fast paced gameplay. But the spirit of cricket lives in first class and Test cricket.

Bangladesh's domestic first class structure is so weak, that we should not aim for IPL to raise our profile. We dont have a Ranji or Duleep like competitive structure that will sustain high quality professional cricket. Which is why access to county cricket is an ultimate dream our players should aspire for.

All great players of the past have played county cricket, or at least the highest calibre first class cricket that their home country offers. Its because those great players have achieved all in their lives that they are in demand for IPL. The crowds go to see Tendulkar for the Mumbai Indians, not some no-name player in KKR. And Tendulkar after all played Duleep, Ranji & then India to become such an item in IPL. It wouldnt work if all players started going for IPL, discarding Duleep, Ranji and Test cricket first.

I'm talking about a BD fans perspective only. And County and IPL are the only domestic leagues that allows foriegn player right? I'm not comparing them as domestic structures obviously.

And no, people appreciate good talents though they go to see the tendulkars, gangulys, or kumbles. See how much attention WCCC is getting after Shakib joined thier county? If shakib pulls off something like what he did for WCCC in IPL, it will be big.

hoax
October 21, 2010, 05:39 AM
I'm talking about a BD fans perspective only. And County and IPL are the only domestic leagues that allows foriegn player right? I'm not comparing them as domestic structures obviously.

And no, people appreciate good talents though they go to see the tendulkars, gangulys, or kumbles. See how much attention WCCC is getting after Shakib joined thier county? If shakib pulls off something like what he did for WCCC in IPL, it will be big.

what if shakib gets picked?..ur system allows team to get 10 oversea players and allows only 4 to play...shakib will warm the benches like ash mash and razzaq(all of this gus was picked after sitting idle for 4 weeks and after one bad match was thrown away)..will this help shakib?..has this helped ash mash or razzaq?..A BIG NO

see what continuously playing for wccc did to shakib..it helped his batting a lot..before wccc he always Thruway his wicket after a start

dolcevita
October 21, 2010, 06:05 AM
Watson wants 2 000 000$$ contracts .
Shakib gonna get a big contract
also Tamim
<br />Posted via BC Mobile Edition (iPhone)

_Rafi_
October 21, 2010, 08:14 AM
I am going to bit conservative here about IPL when it comes to Shakib and Tamim, our only two world class players atm. There is lot to be benefitted from IPL. Top int players playing IPL and full pack stadiump are positive points. But my concern is on distraction provided by IPL which would probably work against Tammy and Shaky. Currently I dont want to take any slightest risk on our two trump cards. For other BD players I will be happy if they get any IPL contracts.

_Rafi_
October 21, 2010, 08:21 AM
As for BD perspective on IPL vs County, County cricket is far more ahead.
Chief reason is their first class structure. Each of county team is not just a team but they are like academy. Cricketer learn a lot through playing. Plus county cricket is on English soil and there is more swing to negotiate which IPL lacks.

Sohel
October 21, 2010, 08:24 AM
Ammar said it all. Terrible conflation, and being argumentative just to satisfy the inner biyach is always unbecoming.

County cricket, especially for younger guys like Shakib, is far more likely to lead to better cricket. Whilst I've always seen merit in T20 cricket, a developing format with its own challenges in terms of skill and temperament, IPL is all about money, fame and gratuitous @$$clowning. Be sober about your priorities and continue to develop the cricket first, and those opportunities will continue to come.

Tiger444
October 21, 2010, 08:50 AM
County cricket for sure..IPL is all about money, fame, and the big stars having fun..county cricket however really develop cricketers well..just look at Shakib..he improved his bowling and batting so much just from a few months of county cricket..would it happen in IPL? I doubt it..it would be nice if Shakib and Tamim were in the IPL but if they're not then I won't be 2 disappointed either..their young and they have plenty of time to make big bucks in the IPL but 1st and foremost they have to develop their cricket skills a lot more so they can become better players..

Raynman
October 21, 2010, 09:27 AM
Its a pointless comparison as the two don't conflict or compete with each other in terms of skills or timing.

IPL is great in the sense that it brings in revenue, casual fans and is provides earning opportunities for players never before dreamed of in cricket.

I for one do not understand why a cricket fan can not enjoy all available formats of the games at their own merit instead of needing to compare one to the other. Lest all you 'Test Purists' forget, T20 evolved out of demand and necessity due to the shortcomings of the Test format itself (much like the ODIs did as well), not as an evil plot to kill or dismiss Test cricket.

Depending on how the Test League/Championship is structured and if other associates will be given the opportunity, the whole cricket landscape could soon change in terms of preferences for domestic leagues.

The IPL and Champions Trophy provides the oppotunity for players to showcase their talent and represent at a high stage which would not be possible with the limited slots available in international cricket.

Just felt like someone needed to defend IPL on this thread.

shakibrulz
October 21, 2010, 09:45 AM
^^Good post Rayns. Almost similar views here on IPL/CL :)

roman
October 21, 2010, 10:03 AM
Both formats are important but to become more matured of a player, one should prefer county cricket. On the other hand you really cant ignore IPL. Cricket is about power noadays and if you cant hit the ball hard you gonna have hard time surviving in Intl cricket. So I wont mind if our players get to play both..

RazabQ
October 21, 2010, 12:16 PM
County cricket definitely until 20/20 evolves from being all about the batsmen. Others have said all there needs to be said about skill building and development of first-class cricket. I do believe some skills (such as improvisation and death bowling) can be honed in an IPL but if and only if the pitches are made sporting ones and the grounds are made proper sized. Bring the rope in and preparing shirt-front just encourages bad habits and renders bowlers canon fodder - nothing to be gained by putting our best players (who all happen to be young) in that format now. Once their game matures, they can go to an IPL and cash in on the proletariat's need for dumbed-down, brawn-based, home-run hitting contests.

Dilscoop
October 21, 2010, 02:51 PM
I was about to open a thread on this, on IPL section. Well not this thread excatly, but a thread on showing how IPL has damaged many young talented players in the past, also the grown established players. And how happy I am to know that, none of the young Bangladeshi players got picked.

No disrespect to IPL, it's great entertainment. And IPL is better than CC, if you are looking for attention and money. But as a Bangladeshi fan, who want's our crickets to grow and improve 1st, I would want more CC for our players over IPL. I know Tamim is dying and crying to get picked in the IPL, I even saw him beg to UV right after a game. We lost that game, instead of worrying about the game, he went to shake UV's hand and talk about IPL. 1st of all that was bad timing, 2ndly wtf. I heard UV say "We will talk later" In Hindi of course. And recently I read this article in BC, where 75% of the guys said, their fav player is UV. Lol I wonder why.

Any ways, as many of the BCers mentioned already, just look at Shakib. Why would we not want CC over IPL. Also look what has IPL done to players like JP, or many of the WI. JP had a great season with RSA, and then he got picked in the IPL with crap load of $$, and since then he has looked ugly! I don't wanna use Ash and Mash as an example, but IPL did hurt their confidence a lot. True, guys like Kallis and others showed their different side, and benefited, but then again, Kallis is a grown man, and he was not doing it just for the money, but to show his class to his own board after dropping him from T20 quad. Just look at what Tamim has done while he did not get picked. He has improved himself, to show his class to them. And look at Shakib after CC. I hope he tells the others about his CC experience, and make the realize.

Some of you guys were upset, that none of the Bangladeshis got picked in last IPL, but I was glad that they didn't. It was for the best. And I hope they don't get picked this year either. It's not like I don't want them to play IPL. Once they have established, and have grown older, kept the performance up in the INT, then they can. That much money will make them lazy and greedy. And I'd hate to lose Shakib and Tamim in the IPL money.

Ajfar
October 21, 2010, 06:29 PM
Dilscoop I wouldn't say IPL has damaged grown established player. Its all about will power. Look at Kallis. First season of IPL what an embarrassment he was for Bangalore. But now Bangalore batting line up is crippled without him.

Dilscoop
October 21, 2010, 06:34 PM
^^ clearly you did not read my post. Because I clearly mentioned Kallis. :)

Equinox
October 21, 2010, 06:50 PM
The degree of professionalism, stamina, training, competitiveness, temperament and learning is what defines first class cricket. County cricket is the ultimate venue before test cricket that cricketers can prove their worth and skill. The Ranji trophy and the Sheffield Shield would be too, only if greater numbers of foreign players were allowed there. A first class competition is what exposes players to the changing dynamics of four day games that is divided into sessions, each requiring certain strategies, skills and temperament.



Sheffield Shield >>> County Cricket. There is no comparison. SS is the closest thing to Test cricket even if CC is considered more prestigious and lucrative. Even English fans will acknowledge this. Doesn't matter how many foreign players are allowed in the CC. Essentially only the very best players of the greatest cricketing nation get to play in the SS as there are only 6 teams compared to 18 in the CC. You have players who have played Tests for Australia who can't take their place for granted in their state teams. And finally you will never have jokers like Rana Naved and Murali Kartik dominating in the SS. So in terms of quality of cricket and professionalism Sheffield Shield is the premier FC competition in the world. The Australian Test record is there for all to see.

Ajfar
October 21, 2010, 08:00 PM
^^ clearly you did not read my post. Because I clearly mentioned Kallis. :)

I only read the first paragraph lol

hoax
October 21, 2010, 10:45 PM
I was about to open a thread on this, on IPL section. Well not this thread excatly, but a thread on showing how IPL has damaged many young talented players in the past, also the grown established players. And how happy I am to know that, none of the young Bangladeshi players got picked.

No disrespect to IPL, it's great entertainment. And IPL is better than CC, if you are looking for attention and money. But as a Bangladeshi fan, who want's our crickets to grow and improve 1st, I would want more CC for our players over IPL. I know Tamim is dying and crying to get picked in the IPL, I even saw him beg to UV right after a game. We lost that game, instead of worrying about the game, he went to shake UV's hand and talk about IPL. 1st of all that was bad timing, 2ndly wtf. I heard UV say "We will talk later" In Hindi of course. And recently I read this article in BC, where 75% of the guys said, their fav player is UV. Lol I wonder why.

Any ways, as many of the BCers mentioned already, just look at Shakib. Why would we not want CC over IPL. Also look what has IPL done to players like JP, or many of the WI. JP had a great season with RSA, and then he got picked in the IPL with crap load of $$, and since then he has looked ugly! I don't wanna use Ash and Mash as an example, but IPL did hurt their confidence a lot. True, guys like Kallis and others showed their different side, and benefited, but then again, Kallis is a grown man, and he was not doing it just for the money, but to show his class to his own board after dropping him from T20 quad. Just look at what Tamim has done while he did not get picked. He has improved himself, to show his class to them. And look at Shakib after CC. I hope he tells the others about his CC experience, and make the realize.

Some of you guys were upset, that none of the Bangladeshis got picked in last IPL, but I was glad that they didn't. It was for the best. And I hope they don't get picked this year either. It's not like I don't want them to play IPL. Once they have established, and have grown older, kept the performance up in the INT, then they can. That much money will make them lazy and greedy. And I'd hate to lose Shakib and Tamim in the IPL money.

agreed with ur every word every line every thing!!:up: we need to keep our players away from indian paysa league for now..

hoax
October 21, 2010, 10:48 PM
Sheffield Shield >>> County Cricket. There is no comparison. SS is the closest thing to Test cricket even if CC is considered more prestigious and lucrative. Even English fans will acknowledge this. Doesn't matter how many foreign players are allowed in the CC. Essentially only the very best players of the greatest cricketing nation get to play in the SS as there are only 6 teams compared to 18 in the CC. You have players who have played Tests for Australia who can't take their place for granted in their state teams. And finally you will never have jokers like Rana Naved and Murali Kartik dominating in the SS. So in terms of quality of cricket and professionalism Sheffield Shield is the premier FC competition in the world. The Australian Test record is there for all to see.

i would have love 2 see shakib play in the sheffield shield..but i doubt thats gona happen:(

beshideshi
October 21, 2010, 11:05 PM
Dilscoop, great post. I have no problems with IPL or T20 as a format, but for a developing country like Bangladesh, the further away our players are from boom boom cricket, the better it is.
"we lack slogging ability" you say? lets rewind the calenders and go back to 2005-2006, we struggled to play 50 overs against major oppositions, now we have started to comfortably bat out most of the games and the quick runs in the business end of the innings will come shortly as well. Once a wise man said "a CEO can do a clerks job, but it doesn't work the other way around"[CEO being tests and the clerk being T20]

beshideshi
October 21, 2010, 11:14 PM
Sheffield Shield >>> County Cricket. There is no comparison. SS is the closest thing to Test cricket even if CC is considered more prestigious and lucrative. Even English fans will acknowledge this. Doesn't matter how many foreign players are allowed in the CC. Essentially only the very best players of the greatest cricketing nation get to play in the SS as there are only 6 teams compared to 18 in the CC. You have players who have played Tests for Australia who can't take their place for granted in their state teams. And finally you will never have jokers like Rana Naved and Murali Kartik dominating in the SS. So in terms of quality of cricket and professionalism Sheffield Shield is the premier FC competition in the world. The Australian Test record is there for all to see.

I don't think SS is as good as you are making them sound. SS is mighty good, and the standard of the teams are tremendous and have the ability to challenge most of the test teams, BUT the overall structure of CC is better.

Each county club is like an academy, [as said by Ammark], the professionalism is at a higher level in CC. With the players playing 6-7 days out of a given 10 day period, a much higher intensity and composure level is required. And CC offers a living to a much greater number of players compared to SS, I know several fringe[state 2nd XI in Aus] players who had to give up cricket as it wasn't providing enough money. Where in CC loads of players make a living of cricket and hence the greater professionalism.
And about the quality of players, if CC had 6 teams, the teams would consist of better players as well. But as there are a greater number of teams, there is a dilation of the better players and hence the teams are a bit weaker.

Also in CC, players are exposed to various conditions, where in SS[barring WACA] most of the pitches have similar conditions and even WACA is becoming less pacy nowadays.

So I think CC is still the best circuit to learn cricket, despite SS having better teams in general.

lamisa
October 22, 2010, 12:02 AM
There is no question that county is 'classier' than IPL.

But IPL means more exposure and fame - which is good for BD cricket ultimately.

what do we want with that sort of fame and exposure?we don't want our players to become models!if bd is good enough,we will get fame at that level one day.there shouldn't be any shortcuts to fame and all that,players should get what they are worthy of!

shuziburo
October 22, 2010, 08:25 AM
I am going to bit conservative here about IPL when it comes to Shakib and Tamim, our only two world class players atm. There is lot to be benefitted from IPL. Top int players playing IPL and full pack stadiump are positive points. But my concern is on distraction provided by IPL which would probably work against Tammy and Shaky. Currently I dont want to take any slightest risk on our two trump cards. For other BD players I will be happy if they get any IPL contracts.

Possibly, Rubel might join this select group soon. Having said that, I don't think I want any of our players in the IPL now. There are too many minus points:

We need to develop our skills and temperament further. IPL will be no help in this.
Players will have to sit.
[বাংলা]জাঁক জমক দেখে ফোকাস নষ্ট হবেই।[/বাংলা] etc, etc...

shuziburo
October 22, 2010, 08:28 AM
There is no question that county is 'classier' than IPL.

But IPL means more exposure and fame - which is good for BD cricket ultimately.

Ultimately is the key word here. That ultimate time is not here yet. IPL is more about money and entertainment than about the game. It is probably at least 2-3 years early for us.