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Aahiyan
October 21, 2010, 05:05 AM
As we don't have any good finisher or we don't have a good hitter who can give us some good runs during final batting power play, I think Ashraful is a good option for that, If he can bat at number 7 then he wouldn't feel any pressure and can bat according to situation.

Habib
October 21, 2010, 05:16 AM
And you thought you should open a thread for this? You could've posted in other 'finisher' thread.

beshideshi
October 21, 2010, 05:20 AM
I think the mods should really consider a "minimum 50/100 post to open a thread" rule :\

shakibrulz
October 21, 2010, 05:28 AM
$ Mahmood>Ash

_Rafi_
October 21, 2010, 08:25 AM
7 is too low for Ashraful. I demand 7+7+1=15th spot for our dearest Ashrafull against Zimbabwe.

Nadim
October 21, 2010, 08:30 AM
eto din ashraful ki niye thread chilo na boro shantite chilam..
<br />Posted via BC Mobile Edition

Sohel
October 21, 2010, 09:01 AM
The ODI World Cup is less than 6 months away. So one must ask: is international cricket the best place to put the following theories to the test (again):

1) "Eibar jodi laigga jay".

2) "Can he do any worse than X, Y or Z?".

3) "Since he can consistently hit domestic bhodais out of the park, he should be able to hit Gul, Steyn, Mendis and Johnson out of the park also."

4) "Since he's too good to hit domestic bhodais out of the park consistently, he should be able to hit Gul, Steyn, Mendis and Johnson out of the park."

al Furqaan
October 21, 2010, 11:20 AM
The ODI World Cup is less than 6 months away. So one must ask: is international cricket the best place to put the following theories to the test (again):

1) "Eibar jodi laigga jay".

2) "Can he do any worse than X, Y or Z?".

3) "Since he can consistently hit domestic bhodais out of the park, he should be able to hit Gul, Steyn, Mendis and Johnson out of the park also."

4) "Since he's too good to hit domestic bhodais out of the park consistently, he should be able to hit Gul, Steyn, Mendis and Johnson out of the park."

speaking on behalf of the continually ash-addicted:

1) only a top 5 spot warrants that from ashraful. batting at #7 he would only have the expectation that is currently riyad/naeem's shoulder of putting on some quick fire runs at the end of the innings. #7s are not expected to win matches or to score 50s, let alone 100s. IMO, the best place for ashraful, if no one else wants the spot. and right now no one wants to bat at #6 and #7.

2) we've seen the worst of ashraful...and it looks like naeem's 25 ball 10 run performance from the first NZ ODI. so he can't do any worse. he's just prone to not do any better.

3 and 4) the good thing is that we don't have gul, johnson, or mendis in our group! we have roach, taylor, jadeja, zaheer, praveen, steyn, broad, and the Johnston bros.

magic boy
October 21, 2010, 11:28 AM
$ Mahmood>Ash

ditto.

betaar
October 21, 2010, 11:58 AM
I do think Ash at #7 is worth trying but since the decision is not ours all we can do is discuss. So thanks for openning a thread. This is what I posted in a different thread.

Someone mentioned in a thread about using Ash as #7 or #8 batsman and I didn’t think the idea was discussed enough to use him as a spinner who can bat in place of Shuvo?

I know some of you will kill me for bringing this up but Shuvo is not anything special. True he was out standing in one of the matches and bowled fairly ok in others, but to be honest, NZ was so subpar this series that I wouldn’t rate his success in this series as a yardstick to consider him for the WC best 11.

Instead, if we have Ash in #8 or #7 depending on match situation and give him the license to kill, chances are he will score some quick fire 30s or 40s taking advantage of the powerplay situation. Where as batting wise, Shuvo is just not international standard and his bowling being not so special, I see him as a mediocre player. And with Mahmudullah not able to hit at all, we have no option but to have someone in our team who can hit and has all the shots in the book to take advantage of the powerplay. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comhttp://www.banglacricket.com/alochona/ /><o:p></o:p></FONT></P><P><FONT face=I know it’s against common sense to use a proper (sorry I had use the word “PROPER” in relation to Ash :-p) batsman at #7 or 8 position but Ash is anything but. He’s got the technique, the know hows, but he doesn’t know which shot to play. If he’s given the chance to hit out and is also used as a bowler, I think he will add more value than Shuvo. All Shak needs to do is use Ash and Mahmudullah as the fifth bowler and use them earlier part of the game so they are not under pressure right from the start. Once they gain confidence they will definitely serve well as the 5<SUP>th</SUP> and the 6<SUP>th</SUP> bowler. Remember, Ash started his career as a bowler……so why not ask him to be a bowling allrounder who can exploit the batting powerplay.<o:p></o:p>

Can you imagine knowing that we still have Ash in our disposal after losing 6-7 wickets? I know he hasn’t proved his true ability with the bat but he has the “what if” factor that plays on every ones mind, including the oppositions’ bowlers. And with a fit Mash back in the team, we can definitely make each and every powerplay count. So why not give this a go against Zim and see if it works?<o:p></o:p>

RazabQ
October 21, 2010, 12:04 PM
Betaar maketh a good point!

auntu
October 21, 2010, 12:10 PM
I think the mods should really consider a "minimum 50/100 post to open a thread" rule :\
I second that.
Most of the forum has this type of rules.

Beamer
October 21, 2010, 12:12 PM
He is surely an option at no.6 or no.7. I am open to that idea.

roman
October 21, 2010, 12:16 PM
this should be merged

Fazal
October 21, 2010, 12:18 PM
yes why not bring Ash at Number #7....
And then when he fails at #7, try him at #6....
And then when he fails at #6, try him at #5....
And then when he fails at #5, try him at #4....
And then when he fails at #4, try him at #3....
And then when he fails at #3, try him at #2....
And then when he fails at #2, try him at #1....
And then when he fails at #1, give him a series rest and bring him back at #7 again
Its not a new idea, it's going on for a while for last few years.
So I say, yes lets continue to screw up the team.

On serious note, first Ash need to prove in the local league that he is serious about his bowling and start playing and producing as a bowling allrounder (late slogger) role consistently. And then he should be waiting at the end of the long waiting-list patiently for his next opportunity. Only then there is a point to start talking about him as a bowling allrounder (late slogger).

If I am his advisor, I would seriously convince Ash to think about that and prepare himself in the local league. As a #7, team expect to produce 10 quality overs game-in game-out. Until he does that in local league, its premaure to talk about him as a bowling allrounder (late slogger) alternative in national team.

wiseshah
October 21, 2010, 12:53 PM
Finisher job candidate

ash
naeem
riad
shuvagoto hom

_Rafi_
October 21, 2010, 01:00 PM
Ash is not any replacement of Riyad. What should be ideal roles of a no 7 can offers to BD:
1)getting quick runs: Ash having advantage over Riyad on that. But again Riyad may not be quick but atleast he is scoring runs consistently which leaving team total in a place of competetive and allowing us to play 50overs . Ash is not trustworthy. He will score more single digit numbers than double digit quick runs. So getting allout withing 50 overs is real possibility.
2)Offering offspin: Riyad without any doubt better choice. And we all know how his spin worked against Nz.

wiseshah
October 21, 2010, 01:24 PM
Honestly
i want to see 5 new faces in zimbabwe series

shuvagoto
anamul
sabbir
shaker
shuvashis

for better reserve bench

wiseshah
October 21, 2010, 01:25 PM
If possible rest

shakib
razzaq
rubel
imrul
shafiul

shajib14
October 21, 2010, 01:45 PM
The ODI World Cup is less than 6 months away. So one must ask: is international cricket the best place to put the following theories to the test (again):

1) "Eibar jodi laigga jay".

2) "Can he do any worse than X, Y or Z?".

3) "Since he can consistently hit domestic bhodais out of the park, he should be able to hit Gul, Steyn, Mendis and Johnson out of the park also."

4) "Since he's too good to hit domestic bhodais out of the park consistently, he should be able to hit Gul, Steyn, Mendis and Johnson out of the park."

[QUOTE=Fazal;1224966]yes why not bring Ash at Number #7....
And then when he fails at #7, try him at #6....
And then when he fails at #6, try him at #5....
And then when he fails at #5, try him at #4....
And then when he fails at #4, try him at #3....
And then when he fails at #3, try him at #2....
And then when he fails at #2, try him at #1....
And then when he fails at #1, give him a series rest and bring him back at #7 again
Its not a new idea, it's going on for a while for last few years.
So I say, yes lets continue to screw up the team.

On serious note, first Ash need to prove in the local league that he is serious about his bowling and start playing and producing as a bowling allrounder (late slogger) role consistently. And then he should be waiting at the end of the long waiting-list patiently for his next opportunity. Only then there is a point to start talking about him as a bowling allrounder (late slogger).

If I am his advisor, I would seriously convince Ash to think about that and prepare himself in the local league. As a #7, team expect to produce 10 quality overs game-in game-out. Until he does that in local league, its premaure to talk about him as a bowling allrounder (late slogger) alternative in national team.[/QUOTE

I really really dont understand why some people still advocate Ash

Murad
October 21, 2010, 01:49 PM
If possible rest

shakib
razzaq
rubel
imrul
shafiul

Nah.
Shakib needs to become the highest wicket taker in 2010. 3 wickets behind Harris, who is probably injured.
Imrul needs to become the 2nd Bangladeshi to score over 1000 runs in a calender year.

al Furqaan
October 21, 2010, 03:31 PM
yes why not bring Ash at Number #7....
And then when he fails at #7, try him at #6....
And then when he fails at #6, try him at #5....
And then when he fails at #5, try him at #4....
And then when he fails at #4, try him at #3....
And then when he fails at #3, try him at #2....
And then when he fails at #2, try him at #1....
And then when he fails at #1, give him a series rest and bring him back at #7 again
Its not a new idea, it's going on for a while for last few years.
So I say, yes lets continue to screw up the team.

On serious note, first Ash need to prove in the local league that he is serious about his bowling and start playing and producing as a bowling allrounder (late slogger) role consistently. And then he should be waiting at the end of the long waiting-list patiently for his next opportunity. Only then there is a point to start talking about him as a bowling allrounder (late slogger).

If I am his advisor, I would seriously convince Ash to think about that and prepare himself in the local league. As a #7, team expect to produce 10 quality overs game-in game-out. Until he does that in local league, its premaure to talk about him as a bowling allrounder (late slogger) alternative in national team.

do you have a better idea at #7?

ideally, we could use a Cameron White at number 7. but we don't have one. so the options are:

Riyad/Naeem

Ash
Aftab
Alok

Nazmul Hossain Milon (i think he's a big hitter)
Dollar Mahmud
etc.

you get the point.

if there is a good option and a bad option, obviously you take the good one. thats why when you go back to the last tri series, there was no talk of ash moving to #7. because riyad and chhokka naeem were doing an excellent job.

this is no longer the case. someone mentioned 50 overs, and to that i say 50 overs is only good if you're scoring runs. otherwise it doesn't matter if you get all out in 45 overs. we are only scoring 240 runs max and not due to top order collapses. hence our top order stays put (except Rock and perhaps Junaid). Ash is NOT being considered for those spots - unless his NCL performance this year is solid.

when a team reaches 240 in the 45th over and gets all out, then yes its a shame they can't bat 50 overs and target 300+. we don't get that far. we score 200 in 40 overs, and end up with 240-260, max. thats not tamim's fault. its not imruls fault either. so i'm not sure why you've got your Victoria Secret thong in a twist thinking Ash is being considered for an openers slot. he's not.

now out of a serious of poor options - what we have at currently - you take the least poor one. we don't know what that is. so we have to try all things to sort it out.

last world cup, Ash was brought back for the 06 ZIM series since he hit twin tons, including a 263, and was used at #7. even at the start of the world cup, he batted in the lower order - India match. and due to not failing (or suceeding, however you want to word it) he was promoted to #5 and won the SA game in the super 8s stages. that is how the system is supposed to work.

now we know, that Ash can't cut it as a batsman in top 5. its been tried and tested many times. so might as well at least try to mould him into a finisher/late slogger. also don't know why you think he has to bowl leggies to bat at #7.

what you have ask yourself is this:

what is the difference between Naeem batting at #8 and scoring 10 runs from 25 balls, and Ash batting at #7 and scoring 6 runs from 3 balls, caught in the deep.

what is the difference between bangladesh scoring 240-9 in 50 overs, and 240 all out in 46 overs? is the oppositions target not the same in either case?

right now ash has the leg up on Aftab and Alok, but the spot is his to lose. but Aftab and Alok are the 2nd and third candidates.

btw, i'd also give Naeem and Riyad the first 3 games of the ZIM series to prove themselves.

at the worst case, you don't lose anything at all. batting, bowling, fielding. nothing. ok perhaps you slightly lose in bowling as Riyad and Naeem are better spinners than Ash, but we've got enough spinners in the side in Shakib, Razzak, and Shuvo. they can bowl 30 overs of spin, no problems.

Eshen
October 21, 2010, 04:26 PM
Ash first needs to gain some mental maturity to understand what's the requirement of #7 slot.

Fazal
October 21, 2010, 04:28 PM
do you have a better idea at #7?

Sure I do. And all of them are better option to me than a proven failue of recent time.

At # 7, I will stick with a bowling all rounder. And I am not ready to say Shuvo or Naeem is a failure or lesser an option than Ashraful at #7. Yes Shuvo and Naeem is strugling as a batman and yes Shuvo haven't shown anough yet, but its too early. And both are consistent performer with the ball (so far) than Ash.
have you seen Ash's RR recently? He starts slowly and when he tries to hit (predictable to oppenent) he gets out. What's make you think, with his current form, he will be able to do better?







ideally, we could use a Cameron White at number 7. but we don't have one. so the options are:

Riyad/Naeem

Ash
Aftab
Alok

Nazmul Hossain Milon (i think he's a big hitter)
Dollar Mahmud
etc.

you get the point.

Actually not. There is no point to get. Just we don't have Cameron White doesn't mean we need to bring old reject. Is not that Ash is firing in both ends right now, he plays more like Rakibul right now... not Cameron White.


Except of Alok/Aftab, all these players (plus more not mentioned) have better future potential right now than trying Ash at this point.




when a team reaches 240 in the 45th over and gets all out, then yes its a shame they can't bat 50 overs and target 300+. we don't get that far. we score 200 in 40 overs, and end up with 240-260, max. thats not tamim's fault. its not imruls fault either. so i'm not sure why you've got your Victoria Secret thong in a twist thinking Ash is being considered for an openers slot. he's not.

Well looks like you are the one who is going to Victoria Secret site more often, as Victoria Secret thong strangles your vision and you failed to read and grasp my point here.

People are talking about Ash at #7, any 2nd grader will be able to grasp that. But based on past record, things doesn't stop there. When he fails the experiment (at #7), people with start saying (as they did before) #7 is not the right slot for him, thats why he failed, it should be #6, and the cycle goes one. Just looks at past threads and history.




last world cup, Ash was brought back for the 06 ZIM series since he hit twin tons, including a 263, and was used at #7. even at the start of the world cup, he batted in the lower order - India match. and due to not failing (or suceeding, however you want to word it) he was promoted to #5 and won the SA game in the super 8s stages. that is how the system is supposed to work.

You are brining up 2006 when British used to rule India (in players' lifespan term)? Check how we were promoting Ash in last few years even he was failing. Last year people was even propose @ #2. Where you have been in last few years, taking nap?


so might as well at least try to mould him into a finisher/late slogger. also don't know why you think he has to bowl leggies to bat at #7.

You don;t ask a national reject player to play a new role in national team, before it being tried in local level. Ash need to take his bowling more seriously and play that role locally consistently before bringing him National team. Nationa Team is not yoor Mamar barir team that you expriment with old off-form player with new role.








what is the difference between Naeem batting at #8 and scoring 10 runs from 25 balls, and Ash batting at #7 and scoring 6 runs from 3 balls, caught in the deep.

How you are so sure that Ash will not waste 15 balls scoring 3 runs? Based on his recent performance in the national team, isn't that his record? When he tries to hit, thats when he gets out. What's he is going to give us as a bowler? And you are ignoring that part. At this level we don't know.




what is the difference between bangladesh scoring 240-9 in 50 overs, and 240 all out in 46 overs? is the oppositions target not the same in either case?

Point less in this discussion. Because I think Ash will score more slowly and less run than Naeem until he regains his form back (if he ever does).






right now ash has the leg up on Aftab and Alok, but the spot is his to lose. but Aftab and Alok are the 2nd and third candidates.

Pointless in this discussion as none of them is my preferred choice. I would bring Jahirul, Hom in the equation before replace a non performer with a bumper non-performer. Plus when Tamim and Mashrafee coames back, we will have more oprions with the final 11 with the current bunch.






btw, i'd also give Naeem and Riyad the first 3 games of the ZIM series to prove themselves.

I will give all games bewteen Naaem, Riyad and Shuva as they have all contributed (in different games) in recent whitewash, and they all have potential to grow. Whereas I see no point investing on a proven failure who not even contibute (in recetn time) a fraction of what these three are giving at present.




at the worst case, you don't lose anything at all. batting, bowling, fielding. nothing. ok perhaps you slightly lose in bowling as Riyad and Naeem are better spinners than Ash, but we've got enough spinners in the side in Shakib, Razzak, and Shuvo. they can bowl 30 overs of spin, no problems.

Actully, by doing so, we loose every thing. We loose credibility to young players and will send the wrong message that production doesn;t matter, showing progress doesn't matter. We will be replacing a contributer with a proven non-contributer of recent time and will set wrong precendece while Jahirul/Hom is waiting for opportunity.

I don;t know how you are saying we will lose bowling slightly? Naaem and Shuva bowled consistently close to 10 overs and Riyad bowls consistently 5+ overs (last few years). Whereas Ash bowls few overs here and there and most of the time not at all. We will loose big time in bowling untill Ash take his bowling seriously and show us what he can do consistently with the ball. And he have to show his dedication and production in local league first before we go further.

Eshen
October 21, 2010, 04:35 PM
As for #7, Shuvagoto seems to be the most promising option out there, the guy does well to play according to situations. He should be give a trial during Zim series.

wiseshah
October 21, 2010, 07:19 PM
agree with ehsen, we should definitely try some new faces, specially shuvagoto. this is the best series to try new faces and strengthen our reserve before WC

al Furqaan
October 21, 2010, 08:31 PM
Fazal, it is probably 1 season too early to bring in Shubogoto into the picture. We have the world cup coming in, and thats not the proper place for a rookie. tamim's inclusion was quite surprising last time around and wrong in the sense that he didn't do anything except hit 2 sizes against zimbabwe to get picked for that tournament. but thats history...

definitely Hom can be considered for #7 and that is not a bad place to bring a rookie in, but if Hom is what he's being made out to be, he will probably have to bat in the top 4. because thats where the star batsman bat. that will once again open up a hole at #7, and maybe we can plug it with jahirul. that is another option.

but if Hom is not selected for the ZIM series, and on 2nd thought maybe he should be (Rock, Junaid, Riyad, Naeem) are all playing pathetic cricket lately - then what other alternative is there besides Ash. keep the world cup in mind and we can actually do some damage in this tournament.

Ash is not going to score 15 ball 3 during the batting PP...and lets assume that he does. How is that different from Naeem's 15 ball 3? I ask the question again. Because thats what we've been getting consistently from Naeem and Riyad. We've seen passages of play over 5 overs after the ball change where 13 runs are scored in 5 overs. what kind of batting is that?

I agree Shuvo has not been seen much, but i don't feel too confident about his batting.

Naeem and Riyad for whatever reason - and its probably not Siddons' instruction - are blocking too many deliveries beyond the 35th over. Ashraful will come in with no responsibility and with the instruction of just scoring runs. Unless of course we're 5 down inside 15 overs, in which case the game is already over so what ash does is at that pont irrelevant. 3 runs, 15 balls is happening because he's trying not to get out rashly and trying to build a responsible innings - something which he is incapable of. so might as well try to use his hitting power down the order. if he fails there, then sure, drop him, and bring on the next best option, whoever he may be.

al Furqaan
October 21, 2010, 08:32 PM
also, Naeem has, to my recollection bowled only a handful of 10 over spells. same with riyad...they are usually to expensive to bowl more than 5 overs each.

Dhruvo
October 21, 2010, 08:36 PM
I don't mind trying him out at number 7. He probably has the best timing among our current batsmen and we all know he can hit. If he bats at 7 without expectations then he might just prosper, I'd take the chance.