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al Furqaan
December 1, 2010, 04:50 PM
I think everyone, coaches/selectors/players/Shakib...and FANS have lost their minds after the BanglaWash.

Losing one game has taken us to the brink of destruction. I didn't feel that bad when we lost the match to Zimbabwe, it was just a game, one game against an up and coming team. One game where we didn't deserve to win. So we didn't.

However, after the post-game fallout, it is clear that there are serious problems in the team, and part of that has to do with our collective national expectation.

It all boils down to the team selection. Deadweights are dragging the ship down to the bottom of the sea, literally.

But the idea that there is a magic solution simply doesn't exist.

This is actually a problem that will only solve itself. Plain and simple.

Today we have Ashraful and Riyad who basically lost us the game. Mushfiq would also be included but he gets a pass since he is being mis-utilized as a #6 batsman and should he continue to play as he did today, he will be included. So we have Ash - who can't learn, and Riyad - who simply can't play. So the obvious answer, according to all and sundry is to bring someone else in. Thats it futile to let a Munaf patel hog up Tendulkar's batting spot.

So lets look at our "Tendulkar's in Waiting".

Raqibul Hasan
The drama queen. He has a good record against Zimbabwe, yes, but what about other teams. Averages 29 and a paltry strike rate of 60 and thats mitigated by his good performances. He was atrocious against New Zealand, but his NCL performance was superb. So is the NCL our criteria for selection?

Ashraful
Tore it up in the NCL, was shabby in the Asian Games. Doesn't deserve to play. So the Asian Games should be the criteria for selection?

Naeem Islam
Also did well in the NCL, but performed poorly in NZ series, has struggled with the bat in every other international, but did OK in the Asian Games.

Shahriar Nafees
Did well against NZ, mediocre in the NCL, bad in the tour match. So the last NZ series is criteria for selection?

Jahirul Islam
Unfairly dropped from the NZ squad, but had a very mediocre NCL season. Deserves to be in the team now. So previous unfair treatment is the new criteria for selection?

Riyad
Hasn't had a good innings since January's tri series. Had a great NCL season. Once again it appears the NCL is our marker for selection.

What I'm getting at is that we as fans, don't seem to have any consistent idea of what should be the selection criteria. In other words, we pick our teams based on the love/hate we have for each player at that given point in time.

Clearly the NCL is either meaningless (Rock) or can be manipulated at will (Ash). But then guys like Naeem and Riyad were picked on NCL performances. If the Asian Games are the criteria, then Ash should be dropped. But Shabbir Rahman should be picked, no? If SN is dropped for his tour match, then Asif and Saghir should be drafted in his place. In other words, we are clueless.

I think we need to take a very gut-feeling approach. Disregard the numbers, disregard the level of competition. Just go based on who you feel is the best player in all conditions in all circumstances.

The fact of the matter is that Junaid, Ashraful, Riyad, Rock, Naeem, and partly Mushfiq are dragging this team down. None of these guys are going to win you matches like Tamim and Shakib. hence we are such a one man team, batting wise. the bowlers are fine. Shafi, Rubel, Shuvo, Razzak, Shakib, and a fit Mash can all answer when called upon. But when 5 out of 7 batsman are dead-weights you will lose to Zimbabwe. The problem is we don't have a Virat Kohli off the bench, and if we do he has yet to be found or he is Roman or Asif and not quite ready yet.

This is what happens when we abandon realism for hyperbolic goals of bringing home the cup and other such things, when we simply don't have the personel for it. A lot can be achieved through hard work alone, but at the end of the day, God-given talent is the only thing that wins championships.

And sometimes even thats not enough. Ask Sachin Tendulkar.

nycpro96
December 1, 2010, 05:18 PM
Great thread. Helped me calm down a little. We have to assess these issues. I agree it's more of one big problem as opposed to drop him, get him in, drop him... The management should be questioned first and foremost. Shakib, being such a key player as well as captain should be treated with some respect and his ideas should be attained to. We need to get all of this straightened out before the WC.

Zeeshan
December 1, 2010, 05:33 PM
This is what happens when we abandon realism for hyperbolic goals of bringing home the cup and other such things, when we simply don't have the personel for it. A lot can be achieved through hard work alone, but at the end of the day, God-given talent is the only thing that wins championships.




Disagree.

Reality is what you define, not merely accept as part of social brainwashing and programming.

Zeeshan
December 1, 2010, 05:39 PM
If I tell you to crank out 80 pushups you may not think you are capable of doing it.
If I hold a gun to your head, heck you might as well crank out 100.

They were complacent. Plain and simple. There was no incentive to beat a minnow side. Body language was ugghh... and the crowd wasn't as fired up as the New Zealand series.

22Yards
December 1, 2010, 05:42 PM
I believe the domestic games are throwing us off. Someone does good in the domestic and we bring him on to play the next international matches. But again it could be argued so what should be the criteria to get selected for the international. Here is a solution to my perspective, you have to do well CONSISTENTLY in the domestic to get picked for the international, not just one or two series.
Keeping that in mind, roman, asif and saghir has got to prove themselves more and someone said it right, bring them into the side after the WC given that they are consistently performing in the domestic games.

For these batsmen that we currently have, I STILL think they can be effective if they play according to their merits. We just have to rest our case on ash,rock and junaid for the time being (may be forever, i have little hope any of them would be able to lift themselves up except junaid who might). The problem with mushfiq, naeem, riyadh is that they are batting at a position where they are not suited best. I have a feeling this same batting lineup will function more if we reshuffle the line up a little.

cricket_pagol
December 1, 2010, 05:43 PM
Nice thread al_Furqaan.

I just want to add the observation that our players looked below par compared to their performance during the NZ series. Something has happened that changed the dynamics of the team...

Dilscoop
December 1, 2010, 05:49 PM
There is just so much to say! Last night's loss, the newspaper reports, Kamal. So much to say! But I just don't know where to post all that!!

Team just cracked over a night!

cricket_dorshok
December 1, 2010, 05:49 PM
I can bet, you just change Loitta with Saber Chowdhury, and see the turnaround.

After imposing the captaincy to someone, you just simply can't say that captaincy might change after ZIMBO series.

Dilscoop
December 1, 2010, 05:52 PM
I can bet, you just change Loitta with Saber Chowdhury, and see the turnaround.

Agreed. Anyone but that guy!! :mad:

Raynman
December 1, 2010, 05:56 PM
also disagree.

Selection of Mash and Ash is a bad message to those trying to prove themselves for a national call up. Continuation of Junaid and Riyad after repeated failures show and exclusion of Juhurul despite showing promise in his limited chances is discouraging. Selecting Mushy as a Keeper despite his regular let offs, not rotating the order despite fail after fail (including the NZ series) is unacceptable.

Don't forget that our BCB XI had little trouble disposing of this ZIM team.

The selection criteria should be as follows:

DEFINE ROLES for 1 through 11 and select the best player for that role. Not the other way around which is select the player and then find a role for them.


This means find the best gloveman, find the best finisher, find the best openers, find the best all rounder, find the best stabliizers and accumulators, the best pacers, the best spinners and then form the team.

If Mash can't give you 10 overs on a given day he shouldn't even be a reserve. If you're unsure if Ash will show up or not, don't bother selecting him.

cricket_pagol
December 1, 2010, 06:04 PM
Shakib really raised some valid points at the press conference... Lotus chagol is ruining our team.

Eshen
December 1, 2010, 06:22 PM
The selection criteria should be as follows:

DEFINE ROLES for 1 through 11 and select the best player for that role. Not the other way around which is select the player and then find a role for them.

This means find the best gloveman, find the best finisher, find the best openers, find the best all rounder, find the best stabliizers and accumulators, the best pacers, the best spinners and then form the team.

Ditto.

Not following this simple rule is causing us all the trouble.

We all know that the team is very much dependent upon Tamim and Shakib, we all know we don't have a Kohli sitting on the bench. But we still have players that are capable of playing supportive roles for the two superstars in the team, provided they are assigned roles according to their strength.

The team management made a big mess by assigning Naeem and Riyad to wrong slots, and then, worse, giving Ashraful a slot from where he can cause a big collapse! And then we have Shahriar Nafees who insists he is a top order batsman and keeps failing!

Eshen
December 1, 2010, 06:27 PM
^ Well, to be fair to SN, he is prolly being pressed to continue play as an opener. In his own team, Barisal, he played from #3 slot, from here he has not done badly.

AsifTheManRahman
December 3, 2010, 02:03 AM
What #'s 3,4,10,12 and 13 said.

When you need a reality check every time you play a series with someone ranked below you, you're just utter crap. Can't blame the fans for expecting the players to *whip* weaker teams.

FagunerAgun
December 3, 2010, 07:09 PM
BCB does not have the sense of realism.

Rifat
April 12, 2011, 12:27 AM
we should re-visit this thread!