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samircreep
December 3, 2010, 09:08 AM
I guess those of you who weren't at the ground missed it but...

During lunch break, when the openers were trudging back and just after junaid was dropped at mid-of, Siddons took him aside and gave him a real jhari. I was sitting right in front of them and could clearly see Siddon's shouting at him him to check his drives when the ball was full, something that Junayed clearly did later.

It's funny to think about it, but its also a bit stupid to see the coach have to teach basics to a no 3 batter in the middle of the match. But I guess that's the kind of coaching that works for our cricket..

Night_wolf
December 3, 2010, 09:17 AM
hmm...nice observation..that jhari really paid of...Thats why Sir ATMR says we need whip for our players..and i support him in this!

samircreep
December 3, 2010, 09:20 AM
But it's not really sustainable is it. And its tedious.

Night_wolf
December 3, 2010, 09:24 AM
But it's not really sustainable is it. And its tedious.

it may not be sustainable for many people but it is for BD people..

Mairer upor osudh nai! bole to akta probad e ase banglay..

samircreep
December 3, 2010, 09:33 AM
Prevention is better than cure? :)

Mahir
December 3, 2010, 09:36 AM
It's funny to think about it, but its also a bit stupid to see the coach have to teach basics to a no 3 batter in the middle of the match. But I guess that's the kind of coaching that works for our cricket..

In professional sports, I see players who make millions of dollars in professional sports get yelled at by their coaches during games all the time. I personally don't think there's any stupidity in a coach doing what coaches are there to do - COACH their players. Junaed has the talent to play, and Jamie's job is to make sure Junaed makes full use of his talents. If all players played perfectly and didn't make mistakes, then there would never be the need to have coaches. And that should hold true for sports teams across the world - it's plain negative sampling on your part to khochafy our cricket team for the kind of coaching you observed first-hand.

samircreep
December 3, 2010, 09:51 AM
I disagree. A batsman, unlike a basketball or a football player, requires immense levels of concentration during the game, consistently, esp when he is batting. Needling the player, which is close to what siddons was doing (my opinion), may affect some batsmen.

But my point was clearly that in the long run shouting doesnt really change much. Look at whatmore and ash. And even in this game, look at how Z ended up getting dismissed just after reaching 50. It's plain inability to understand the game holistically on your part that probably weighs down any kind of "analysis" you make

pagol-chagol
December 3, 2010, 09:55 AM
It's funny to think about it, but its also a bit stupid to see the coach have to teach basics to a no 3 batter in the middle of the match.

That said more about the state of cricket in Bangladesh, than the win did yesterday.

skhondoker
December 3, 2010, 09:57 AM
i agree with Mahir on this.....no matter who you are, if you are making a mistake in a game and the coach have an opportunity to talk to you.....he should be letting him know...or remind him to come to senses.....it should not be effecting any one in a negative way....

ammark
December 3, 2010, 10:02 AM
It's funny to think about it, but its also a bit stupid to see the coach have to teach basics to a no 3 batter in the middle of the match.

That said more about the state of cricket in Bangladesh, than the win did yesterday.

Indeed it does. It is tedious, and to use the "mairer upor oshudh nai" method over and over again is a bad way to fix things.

We know of the poor standard of cricket in Bangladesh, and many national team coaches have continually expressed their frustration with having to teach national cricketers the basics of batting and technique over and over again. This is why a strong Academy, U-19 and High Performance system is such an important first step. God knows when we'll have an adequate school cricket set up doing the foundational work.

Its such a contrast to see a female English U-16/Academy player practicing with the BD National Test and ODI team. And here we are today with Siddons giving Zunaed Siddiki a shunting to get things in order.

riankhan
December 3, 2010, 10:03 AM
But my point was clearly that in the long run shouting doesnt really change much. Look at whatmore and ash.

Whatmore's yelling at Ash created controversy at that time and eventually he (Whatmore) stopped talking to Ash(!) at the end.

Mahir
December 3, 2010, 10:17 AM
It's plain inability to understand the game holistically on your part that probably weighs down any kind of "analysis" you make

I'm not sure whose holistic understanding deficiency you are pointing out, mine or Junaed's, but you do seem extremely trigger-happy on dismissing your fellow BC members' comments and opinions just because they beg to differ yours.

My counter to your opening post is simple - players make mistakes, and the coach is there to point them out and help to rectify. Those million-dollar players that I mentioned also require certain amounts of concentration to play their game. The needling that you're talking about only helped Junaed go out and contribute in a vital passage of play. Granted he shouldn't have thrown his wicket away at any cost having done the hard work, but that wasn't an effect of Jamie shouting at him earlier, which I'm sure you'd agree with.

Professional players are much stronger mentally than us fans, and those who know how not to take the coach's rants personally and how to make use of the tips the coach has to offer, usually benefit from such shoutings than be effected negatively, as you are implying. To me, the plain observation that the coach had to raise his voice to his top-order batsman is what "works for our cricket" is a total unnecessary discrimination of the player and the overall culture of the sport we're talking about.

mac
December 3, 2010, 10:36 AM
In professional sports, I see players who make millions of dollars in professional sports get yelled at by their coaches during games all the time. I personally don't think there's any stupidity in a coach doing what coaches are there to do - COACH their players. Junaed has the talent to play, and Jamie's job is to make sure Junaed makes full use of his talents. If all players played perfectly and didn't make mistakes, then there would never be the need to have coaches. And that should hold true for sports teams across the world - it's plain negative sampling on your part to khochafy our cricket team for the kind of coaching you observed first-hand.

Yes exactly. But the problem is our players make stupid mistakes much more frequently.

samircreep
December 3, 2010, 10:40 AM
And you seem to take any kind of constructive criticism (I stated exactly what my jibe with siddon's methods were, as well as why I think this kind of coaching doesn't work in the long run, just in case you have a problem understanding what constructive actually means) as an attack on the BD team. The whole shebang about you're either with us or against us thing is so 2001 don't you think?

My prelude to your counter was even more simple. A coach shouldn't need to shout out basic instructions to a top order batsmen in the middle of his innings when you are playing international cricket. The art of batting, as I pointed out earlier, isn't analogous to any other role in any other sport. You need to be self absorbed, quite literally. I don't think the phrase "in the zone" is applicable to any other sporting role quite so well. Do you see Ferguson shouting to Rooney just before he takes a penalty? No? Enough said.

Bangladeshi batsmen aren't as mentally mature as you make them out to be and anyone following BD cricket knows that. I don't think shouting out instructions in the middle of the match to a no 3 batsman to not drive the 5th ball he faces to the hands of mid on will bring any kind of mental stability either in the short or long run.

Rather I'd say work on the bastmen's technique and mental approach after the game is over as clearly siddons has been doing for quite some time now. And that, above all, has been far more conducive to making JS a better player that he is now than anything else. Shouting/ ranting/ pleading never worked in the past, and won't be working in the future

Tendulkar_Mcgrath
December 3, 2010, 11:54 AM
jharafying got junaid to 50+, Pitaying would take him to 100+....i am not joking :)

Mahir
December 3, 2010, 12:04 PM
We lost the first match.

Junaed hasn't scored a decent knock in the last few matches.

He almost got out cheaply.

Man, what's so wrong about the poor coach yelling out to him that because of his poor shot, he almost lost his wicket before the lunch break, and the team could be in a whole early. Is the coach not supposed to say anything to the batsman because he happens to have come back to the pavilion 'cuz its a break in the innings? It was in all likelihood an one-off situation where a coach simply yelled at one of his main players for making a mistake. And who's to suggest that our coach only coaches through "shoutings" and that those shoutings will definitely have negative, long-term effects on our players? We'd probably be blaming the coach had he stayed mute even after witnessing with his own eyes his no. 3 batsman making a glaring mistake.

Some of us are never happy. Even if we win the world cup, there would probably be questions and concerns regarding the way we won it, or about certain players not deserving to be part of the winning team. Watching the national team lose for years has probably got under the skin a bit too much.

And if the meaning of "constructive" is well-drilled in your own brain, then it's all good. I can live without knowing the meaning.

max410
December 3, 2010, 12:18 PM
I guess those of you who weren't at the ground missed it but...

During lunch break, when the openers were trudging back and just after junaid was dropped at mid-of, Siddons took him aside and gave him a real jhari. I was sitting right in front of them and could clearly see Siddon's shouting at him him to check his drives when the ball was full, something that Junayed clearly did later.

It's funny to think about it, but its also a bit stupid to see the coach have to teach basics to a no 3 batter in the middle of the match. But I guess that's the kind of coaching that works for our cricket..
The cach has teh right to blame him formaking stupid mistake he could have thrown his wicket away pretty nicely junaid needs to work mro eon his footwork as well

Nadim
December 3, 2010, 12:21 PM
Emon jhari jodi Ashraful re marto :-p

Night_wolf
December 3, 2010, 12:23 PM
Emon jhari jodi Ashraful re marto :-p

tao kuno lav hoito na!

Ajfar
December 3, 2010, 12:41 PM
Emon jhari jodi Ashraful re marto :-p

hmm ppre report lekha hoto bangladesher manonio ex captain ke coach er aierokom shobar samne jhari dewa uchit hoinai
<br />Posted via BC Mobile Edition (iPhone)

betaar
December 3, 2010, 12:59 PM
And you seem to take any kind of constructive criticism (I stated exactly what my jibe with siddon's methods were, as well as why I think this kind of coaching doesn't work in the long run, just in case you have a problem understanding what constructive actually means) as an attack on the BD team. The whole shebang about you're either with us or against us thing is so 2001 don't you think?

My prelude to your counter was even more simple. A coach shouldn't need to shout out basic instructions to a top order batsmen in the middle of his innings when you are playing international cricket. The art of batting, as I pointed out earlier, isn't analogous to any other role in any other sport. You need to be self absorbed, quite literally. I don't think the phrase "in the zone" is applicable to any other sporting role quite so well. Do you see Ferguson shouting to Rooney just before he takes a penalty? No? Enough said.

Bangladeshi batsmen aren't as mentally mature as you make them out to be and anyone following BD cricket knows that. I don't think shouting out instructions in the middle of the match to a no 3 batsman to not drive the 5th ball he faces to the hands of mid on will bring any kind of mental stability either in the short or long run.

Rather I'd say work on the bastmen's technique and mental approach after the game is over as clearly siddons has been doing for quite some time now. And that, above all, has been far more conducive to making JS a better player that he is now than anything else. Shouting/ ranting/ pleading never worked in the past, and won't be working in the future

Even a player like Tendulkar needs a coach so that there is someone analyzing his game. I think the point you are missing is that everyone needs to be reminded and pointed out what they are doing wrong on that particular day or time or match. How you deliver the massage depends on the coach-player relationship and the method that works. I am sure Siddons being a professional understands (having been with our team for 3 years) our batsmen’s mentality better than you, me and the other guy here in BC.

One World
December 3, 2010, 01:01 PM
^ :up:

catstrophy
December 3, 2010, 01:20 PM
Getting Jharafied was the best thing that could have happened to Junaed in this game.

jisaan
December 3, 2010, 01:33 PM
to teach ashraful something... he might have to kick him a 1000 times...
& then slap him 2000 times
& then.....

he will do the same mistake AGAIN!!!

mij
December 3, 2010, 02:07 PM
I guess those of you who weren't at the ground missed it but...

During lunch break, when the openers were trudging back and just after junaid was dropped at mid-of, Siddons took him aside and gave him a real jhari. I was sitting right in front of them and could clearly see Siddon's shouting at him him to check his drives when the ball was full, something that Junayed clearly did later.

It's funny to think about it, but its also a bit stupid to see the coach have to teach basics to a no 3 batter in the middle of the match. But I guess that's the kind of coaching that works for our cricket..


Nice one, I like it, you come to play not to wonder round. I can tell you its not easy job for siddons.

roman
December 3, 2010, 03:28 PM
hmm ppre report lekha hoto bangladesher manonio ex captain ke coach er aierokom shobar samne jhari dewa uchit hoinai

Posted via BC Mobile Edition (iPhone)

LOL. Funny but so true.

Dilscoop
December 3, 2010, 04:13 PM
All the players get yelled at all the time. Except class players. From our team I don't expect Shakib, and may be Tamim (at a time he needs 1 too) to get yelled at.

Now I don't mean class players are dis-yelled-able, but their class makes them to be. Ponting deserves buttwhopping now days, but he won't get one. You have to be his baap to do so.

FagunerAgun
December 3, 2010, 07:39 PM
Nothing unusual in professional sports...It is good to think that there is someone on the field to react when needed.

tkandi4
December 3, 2010, 08:56 PM
If JS hadn't talked to Z about it, some of us would have criticized him.

Dhruvo
December 3, 2010, 09:03 PM
I guess shouting is alright as long as that is not the only thing the coach does lol. I am pretty sure Siddons tries to improve our batsmens' technique as well.

BASSMAN
December 3, 2010, 09:58 PM
Jhari chara kaam hoi na. Simmons must have learnt this Bengali motto.
<br />Posted via BC Mobile Edition (Android)

MatinSux
December 3, 2010, 10:54 PM
Sid should smack him in the head for that drive jharifying is not good enough.

AsifTheManRahman
December 4, 2010, 12:23 AM
Sid should smack him in the head for that drive jharifying is not good enough.
I like the way you think.

Tigers_eye
December 4, 2010, 12:35 AM
If I were near by certainly I would provide Siddons with a "betth". Pita!!!

22Yards
December 4, 2010, 01:12 AM
I like the way you think.

Although I assume you would have preferred a "whip" instead of smack.

BANFAN
December 4, 2010, 01:44 AM
I support JS in doing that.

Yes, that's how low you have to get to teach cricket to our guys.

tiger_omar
December 4, 2010, 02:23 AM
And you seem to take any kind of constructive criticism (I stated exactly what my jibe with siddon's methods were, as well as why I think this kind of coaching doesn't work in the long run, just in case you have a problem understanding what constructive actually means) as an attack on the BD team. The whole shebang about you're either with us or against us thing is so 2001 don't you think?

My prelude to your counter was even more simple. A coach shouldn't need to shout out basic instructions to a top order batsmen in the middle of his innings when you are playing international cricket. The art of batting, as I pointed out earlier, isn't analogous to any other role in any other sport. You need to be self absorbed, quite literally. I don't think the phrase "in the zone" is applicable to any other sporting role quite so well. Do you see Ferguson shouting to Rooney just before he takes a penalty? No? Enough said.




First off, I don’t know you, but you sound like such a smug. Do you talk down to everyone who disagrees with you?

Secondly, a coach has to find the right balance of nurturing his players and disciplining them depending on the players psyche. If Siddons tried to coach Zunaid how to play a proper drive over and over again, he has every right to be angry with Zunaid for making such a silly mistake. Also, Siddons knows Zunaid better than you and I, and if Zunaid needs some needling to play proper cricket, so be it.

Thirdly, about your point of breaking Zunaid’s concentration, Siddons didn’t yell at Zunaid the next ball after he was dropped, he yelled at him once he got back to the pavilion during the lunch break. Zunaid would then have ample opportunities to regain his concentration after lunch so that argument you make isn’t a strong one in my opinion.

dolcevita
December 4, 2010, 02:33 AM
Run na korlé pissa dia piadileo kno shomosha nai
<br />Posted via BC Mobile Edition (iPhone)

samircreep
December 4, 2010, 06:54 AM
1. You're right, you don't know me, so please keep your comments about my smug personality to yourself, and instead focus on the gist of the post, like you did in points 2 and 3
2. Read the whole post. It's about sustainable coaching practises, not just about a shouting session. Scroll down, there are posts about how shouting/pleading don't really work in the short or long run (strictly my opinion).
3. Siddons was shouting at him while JS was at the wicket, when the umpires were coming off, in front of the whole Zimbabwe team, not inside the pavilion, not after/during lunch time.

Tiger Manc
December 4, 2010, 08:45 AM
That's good because it worked!

MarufH
December 4, 2010, 08:56 AM
I guess those of you who weren't at the ground missed it but...

During lunch break, when the openers were trudging back and just after junaid was dropped at mid-of, Siddons took him aside and gave him a real jhari. I was sitting right in front of them and could clearly see Siddon's shouting at him him to check his drives when the ball was full, something that Junayed clearly did later.

It's funny to think about it, but its also a bit stupid to see the coach have to teach basics to a no 3 batter in the middle of the match. But I guess that's the kind of coaching that works for our cricket..

I agree.

crickwizard
December 5, 2010, 08:56 AM
John Wright once hold Shewag's collar in the dressing room after he got out by missing 'basics'. Sid could have avoided doing this publicly so we didnt have to debate whether it is a 'sustainable' coaching.

lamisa
December 5, 2010, 10:04 AM
are, JS kisu na bolleo dosh abar bolleo dosh!mind your own business,if zunaed isn't cmplaining,i don't think any of us should!