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LBW103
December 6, 2010, 07:47 AM
I note in today's Independent that Pont says Razzak is better than Vettori. And then La La gets another 4 wickets and another man of the match. It's brilliant our coaches are not afraid to speak up for our talented players.

I think it's great we have such positive coaches in BD team right now. It helps boost the players and I saw Pont and Fountain running the show today really well in Siddons absence. Fountain stayed glued to his seat pretty much making notes but Pont was around the ground motivating the bowlers. One paper said Pont was head coach today and another said Fountain, but I don't think it matters.

What does matter is we have excellent back up coaches who can help deliver. I am confident we have the basis of a great team behind the players now.

Zunaid
December 6, 2010, 07:59 AM
I would have put both Shakib and Razzak above Vettori. I wonder how Pont would rank the three?

zainab
December 6, 2010, 08:02 AM
Must differ here, Vettori is a better finger spinner and has a great arm ball. Razzak and Shakib will get there but Vettori is the best LA Spinner in the world at the moment. He is consistent in every match.

Nafi
December 6, 2010, 08:09 AM
I would have put both Shakib and Razzak above Vettori. I wonder how Pont would rank the three?

I think Ian Pont should take up on coaching spinners, or atleast give valuable coaching support to the spinners, if he is not already doing so.

You should ask him about this, in the interview

shakibrulz
December 6, 2010, 08:15 AM
Pont talks a lot of trash. IMo Shakib>Vettori>>>>Razzak. While Shak>Vettori is debatable, no way in hell Razzak>Vettori
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Ajfar
December 6, 2010, 08:27 AM
Ain't no way Razzak is better than Vettori. Take out his stats against Zim and other weaker teams and see what happens.

magic boy
December 6, 2010, 08:28 AM
Abdur Razzak Raz is true fighter.successfully returned to international cricket after suspension by ICC.He could do better if he had support from batsmen with fight able total and better wicketkeeping

Shaan
December 6, 2010, 08:42 AM
that's Pont's view, probably he would like to boost Razzak' s confidence furthermore by stating this. But honestly Razzak needs to prove a lot ahead of his career as to come closer comparison to Vettori.

If Razzak can continues performing like this against g8 teams he would be very soon find himself beside Vettori's name.

Nafi
December 6, 2010, 08:48 AM
When I see Razzak have mastery over his drift, and actually have the ball turning and spinning more.

Then I would say Razzak could go ahead of vetorri, only after he gets results against G8.

Razzak still has a lot to prove, before putting him in the same league as vetorri (probably one of the most admired (non-bd) modern bowlers in BC forum)

lamisa
December 6, 2010, 08:50 AM
why does pont talk so much?ufff,too many compliments gets to our players!

beshideshi
December 6, 2010, 08:58 AM
Razzak had to deal with several issues[illegal actions] that Vettori never had to. That being said, in tets Razzak is as ineffective as a hosepipe on a rainy day. Razzak still has to do a lot of work on his bowling to reach Vet's level[in tests].
In ODIs, I believe Razzak and Vettori are almost at par. Razzak has a better average than Vettori and is useful in all conditions, a characteristic analogous to Vettori. If Razzak can just replicate his Zimb heroics against G8 teams, everyone would certainly rate him higher than Vet.

Jadukor
December 6, 2010, 09:27 AM
If Razzak can just replicate his Zimb heroics against G8 teams, everyone would certainly rate him higher than Vet.
how can you say he is at par with vettory when you also acknowledge that razzak has to replicate his heroics against the bigger teams?

beshideshi
December 6, 2010, 09:29 AM
^^ I said they are at par now, and if Razzak gets 14 wickets in 3 matches vs Eng/SA/Ind, everyone will rate him higher than Vet.

thebest
December 6, 2010, 11:29 AM
Vettori is over rated. A bowler whose career average is 31+ can not be compared with some one who have career average 27+ or 29+ (Raj and Sakib respectively). Sak is way better cricketer than Vet. So called minnow basher could be also used again vet (againest BD 18+, Ireland 5+, Sco 10+). Considering he has better support bowler I would any day take Raj over Vet as spinner , Shak over Vet as allrounder

LBW103
December 6, 2010, 11:36 AM
Just shows this has split people's opinion. Pont said he thought Razzak was the best AT THE MOMENT in his interview, so he was not going back into history and comparing test records and past glories.

Sakib has not bowled at his best in the last 3 matches. Vettori has been struggling. Razzak has been world class by comparison and is hardly giving any runs away while taking loads of wickets.

On performances, whoever they are against (and ODI's are ODI's regardless) Razzak is in front.

To the guy who said he wants to see Razzak turning the ball and getting drift has obviously not been watching the last three ODI's! And to the guy who said Pont compliments the players too much.. isn't good praise what we want from our own coaches? He always backs his comments up with facts (he said mashrafee would come good when everyone doubted it) and now he is backing Razzak. I am fed up with negative fans here when we have talented players who get criticized all the time.

Good for the coach to speak out in our players favour and boost confidence.

betaar
December 6, 2010, 11:38 AM
why does pont talk so much?ufff,too many compliments gets to our players!

It can also build confidence. Being born and raised in our socio-cultural environment, we are always low in confidence even when we are at the top, may be positive thinking and talking could reverse some of that for our players. But then again, Pont must stay ready to eat the humble pie.

Jadukor
December 6, 2010, 11:51 AM
Vettori is over rated. A bowler whose career average is 31+ can not be compared with some one who have career average 27+ or 29+ (Raj and Sakib respectively). Sak is way better cricketer than Vet. So called minnow basher could be also used again vet (againest BD 18+, Ireland 5+, Sco 10+). Considering he has better support bowler I would any day take Raj over Vet as spinner , Shak over Vet as allrounder

be it bowler or batsman the ultimate examination of their skills comes in Test cricket... look at vettoris record and look at razzaks!
i don't know how you guys can compare razzak to vettori!

Night_wolf
December 6, 2010, 12:00 PM
be it bowler or batsman the ultimate examination of their skills comes in Test cricket... look at vettoris record and look at razzaks!
i don't know how you guys can compare razzak to vettori!

vet is way better then razzak in test but in odi i dare to say razzak has the upper hand over vet...but not by much though

Rabz
December 6, 2010, 12:19 PM
Atleast someone knows how to talk big!
Let him be !
Carry on Pont..

Jadukor
December 6, 2010, 12:30 PM
Vettori is over rated. A bowler whose career average is 31+ can not be compared with some one who have career average 27+ or 29+ (Raj and Sakib respectively).

they can be compared when you look at where they are from...

Point 1
an Indian pacer playing more matches at home is likely to have higher economy rate and average because of the unfavorable pace bowling conditions compared to an English pacer who gets to bowl at seaming conditions... in the same way when it comes to spin in case of Vettory, his home wickets are much harder to earn than Razzaks... so we have to look at their home and away averages first... Razzak averages a phenomenal 20 runs per wicket playing at home... while it radically jumps up to 39 while playing away... vettori on the other hand is equally effective under all conditions with both home and away averages of 31... now who would you rate higher... a guy who is effective under all conditions or a guy who is a tiger at home...but ordinary abroad?

Point 2
Out of Razzak's total tally of wickets zimbabwe wickets are 32%... Out of Vettori's tally of wickets... only 6% constitutes zimbabwe wickets... 20% of his wickets are aussie batters...and that to me is a clear verdict of his class....

Shaan
December 6, 2010, 01:27 PM
well well.. probably this is the new starting of our Razzak !!

M.H.Rubel
December 6, 2010, 01:48 PM
Raj is never ever good test of FC bowler.so its not fair to compare him with Vettori.
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simon
December 6, 2010, 01:58 PM
Pont could say that Razzaq's current form suggests that he is getting better than Vettori.

Dilscoop
December 6, 2010, 02:11 PM
I could careless about this comment. I don't care if he is correct or not. Until he can build Shafiul and Rubel (or other fast bowlers) and call them number 1 in front of the media, I won't bother.

LBW103
December 6, 2010, 07:49 PM
Dilscoop.. what a weird comment. What coach on earth could ever do this? You are going to judge a coach only if he makes two BD pace bowlers the world's best? ha, ha, ha.

It means the Australian, English, WI, Pak, Indian, Zim, SL and NZ bowling coaches are no good either as Steyn in world's number one (who Pont coached by the way!)

No wonder us fans look stupid to some of the coaching staff and media.

AsifTheManRahman
December 6, 2010, 09:23 PM
I note in today's Independent that Pont says Razzak is better than Vettori.
Interesting. Is there a web link?

I agree, Razzak is a beast. Vettori who? This name gets thrown around quite a bit, but the last time I checked he's a sissy who lost 4-0 to Bangladesh.

AsifTheManRahman
December 6, 2010, 09:30 PM
Dilscoop.. what a weird comment. What coach on earth could ever do this? You are going to judge a coach only if he makes two BD pace bowlers the world's best? ha, ha, ha.

It means the Australian, English, WI, Pak, Indian, Zim, SL and NZ bowling coaches are no good either as Steyn in world's number one (who Pont coached by the way!)

No wonder us fans look stupid to some of the coaching staff and media.
Well the coaching staff and the management look pretty stupid to the fans too. It's actually pretty pathetic how many times the fans are correct about things that seem far from obvious to the management. Why was Ashraful picked? Why does Mushy bat so low down the order? Why do most people who have always batted in the middle order in domestic cricket start at #8 when brought into the national team? Why is half the batting line up made up of sissies?

You'd think the coaches and selectors would know better, especially when they get to observe these players day in and day out, but unfortunately, the same mistakes are often repeated over lengthy periods of time.

AsifTheManRahman
December 6, 2010, 09:32 PM
Oh and if our coaches can't make us the best in the world, they need to be *whipped* until they do, just like the players, just like the selectors and the rest of the cricket board. World Cup baby!

Rifat
December 6, 2010, 09:35 PM
not convinced yet until i see a 4+ match winning wicket haul in the world cup inshaAllah

Tigers_eye
December 6, 2010, 09:38 PM
Vettori is over rated. A bowler whose career average is 31+ can not be compared with some one who have career average 27+ or 29+ (Raj and Sakib respectively). Sak is way better cricketer than Vet. So called minnow basher could be also used again vet (againest BD 18+, Ireland 5+, Sco 10+). Considering he has better support bowler I would any day take Raj over Vet as spinner , Shak over Vet as allrounder
We all remember what Tamim said to Vettori. He gets the tail enders only comes to bowl when 4 wicket is down. HHS.

Dilscoop
December 6, 2010, 09:39 PM
Dilscoop.. what a weird comment. What coach on earth could ever do this? You are going to judge a coach only if he makes two BD pace bowlers the world's best? ha, ha, ha.

It means the Australian, English, WI, Pak, Indian, Zim, SL and NZ bowling coaches are no good either as Steyn in world's number one (who Pont coached by the way!)

No wonder us fans look stupid to some of the coaching staff and media.

Wrong. I'd say read my post and try again.

Let me break it down for you: "Until Ian Pont (a fast-bowling coach) can call out Shafi and Rubel (our current young bowlers) as number one and better than Dale Steyn (which they aren't atm), I won't bother about what he thinks of Razzak (a spinner)"


So I don't know what's all these random stuff coming from:

You are going to judge a coach only if he makes two BD pace bowlers the world's best? ha, ha, ha.
Again, I don't know where you got that from but I wasn't trying to judge weather he is good or not. I already knew he built DS and Akhtar.

It means the Australian, English, WI, Pak, Indian, Zim, SL and NZ bowling coaches are no good either as Steyn in world's number one
vary random, because I was never saying anything like that...

LBW103
December 6, 2010, 11:21 PM
Had we won the 1st ODI (which we should have done) we would now be sitting at 7 straight ODI wins. The world record is 12 ODI wins. After this series (2 more to go) we would have been at 9 ODI wins in a row if we had won the first and win the last two. This includes the 4 ODI's against a TOP EIGHT country ranked 5 at the time.

I know we like to say this player should play etc and that player is bad etc, but whatever we say the team are performing really well. This is easily the best winning streak in BD history.

Whatever anyone believes the selectors (not coaching staff as they do not pick the team) are doing right, the fact is the players are getting it right on the field. I am sure the guys will slip up as they are still learning and we as fans will be critical. However, let's back our coaches who are doing a great job and TRUST their judgement. they are the ones who work every day with the team after all.

AsifTheManRahman
December 6, 2010, 11:42 PM
We should definitely back our coaches and our players. Having said that, some of the issues - mostly with the batting line up, power play usage, etc - just don't seem to go away. The fast bowling looks promising but definitely not up there with our spin resources and we'll have to wait and see what Pont and his guys have in store for us in the upcoming months.

LBW103
December 7, 2010, 12:36 AM
Is it time to FORGET the power play as an important event? Why not just bat normally and then the positive shots lead to boundaries anyway with only 3 fielders out?

We seem to get hooked up on PP but it is irrelevant to the way BD seems to play and if anything is it a negative thing. Just bat normally guys. Simple.

Night_wolf
December 7, 2010, 12:51 AM
Had we won the 1st ODI (which we should have done) we would now be sitting at 7 straight ODI wins. The world record is 12 ODI wins.

the world record is 21 wins in a row..our record is 9...source cricinfo

22Yards
December 7, 2010, 01:13 AM
the world record is 21 wins in a row..our record is 9...source cricinfo

by which team ? just curious

Night_wolf
December 7, 2010, 02:56 AM
by which team ? just curious
the once mighty Ausies...who else!...and they have done it twice!..both the 2003 and 2007 WC was part of this streak

al-Sagar
December 7, 2010, 03:57 AM
next debate who is a better batsman "suhrawardi shubo or nathan mcullam "

tiger_army
December 7, 2010, 04:30 AM
If Razzak can destroy India's batting lineup in coming World Cup, then I will say he is NO 1

Night_wolf
December 7, 2010, 04:34 AM
If Razzak can destroy India's batting lineup in coming World Cup, then I will say he is NO 1

he took 3 wiks vs them in 07 wc...he can do it again

Jadukor
December 7, 2010, 04:36 AM
even shane warne/murali couldnt do that to the indians... so thats a tough ask...
for me if he can perform as well as he is doing in at least two of the games against SA, Eng or WI it would go a long way in ensuring our quaterfinal spot

lamisa
December 7, 2010, 11:24 AM
i care about what he says about our pacers and not the spinners!