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Spitfire_x86
December 29, 2010, 11:46 AM
Read at Sydney Morning Herald (http://www.smh.com.au/sport/cricket/even-bangladeshis-would-walk-into-australian-team-says-siddons-20101229-19acm.html)

Equinox
December 29, 2010, 11:49 AM
Trying his best to add some Tests to the itinerary I see.

Zunaid
December 29, 2010, 11:58 AM
Nice. These two are world class.

Rabz
December 29, 2010, 11:58 AM
Sakib would walk into any team in the world, easy.
Tamim would walk into most teams in the world.

Good to see Siddons also drumming things a bit for us.
He senses blood too.

shuziburo
December 29, 2010, 11:59 AM
Nice article, but we already knew that!

Night_wolf
December 29, 2010, 12:00 PM
Shakib hands down!..thats nothing new!:)

Shaan
December 29, 2010, 01:15 PM
Sakib would walk into any team in the world, easy.
Tamim would walk into most teams in the world.

Good to see Siddons also drumming things a bit for us.
He senses blood too.

it feels good that he is on the mission and feels high about us !!

MohammedC
December 29, 2010, 01:35 PM
So we have to 2 world class player. We need to double that by the end of year 2011.
<br />Posted via BC Mobile Edition (iPhone)

auntu
December 29, 2010, 01:37 PM
Nice read. Thanks a lot Spitty. I'm eagerly waiting for the Aussies to be at soil for test and ODI cricket. I think with the present BD form and the Aussies problem against spin and slow low track like BD one it's gonna be a real tough challenge for them.

Let's hope that, after the WC when BD would be in enthusiastic mood with great wins in the tourney ad Aussies would be in a bit back footed after disappointing performance at WC. I'm having a good feeling about the tour. I hope the Aussies would play and won't act as a sissy.:)
<br />Posted via BC Mobile Edition (Blackberry)

al Furqaan
December 29, 2010, 02:03 PM
agree with Siddons.

frd
December 29, 2010, 02:12 PM
Junaed for ponting. :-)

Nafi
December 29, 2010, 02:21 PM
Junaed for ponting. :-)

Yeh as Ponting is likely to retire in a few months

Syed Rasel for Mitchel Johnson :D

rinathq
December 29, 2010, 02:26 PM
Really nice read. Its funnt how even last year we were no position to compare with the Aussies but today we are desperate to play them. Even last year they were ignorant of us, now the want to avoid playing us at our own soil!! Its true all what Siddons said. He did not exaggerate a little. Sakib has the ability to run through the entire Englsih batting order thats for sure. And Tamim proved his worth this year by far.

Dunt be too harsh on Ponting though, even though i hate him, he is still the most successful captain in history.

Proud of Siddons. He has no hesitation to challenge the Australian cricket right at their media. We finally have a coach that has trust on our players. I an tell you this now, Siddons really wants to stick with Bangladesh Cricket because he is really into it :)

rinathq
December 29, 2010, 02:28 PM
So we have to 2 world class player. We need to double that by the end of year 2011.
<br />Posted via BC Mobile Edition (iPhone)

Mushfiq is rising, so is Razzaq, Shafiul............. all we need right now is one stable batsman in the middle order, a PP finisher and a healthy pace attack. We would be almost impossible to beat at home, and we would put up a good show at anywhere in the world :)

shakibrulz
December 29, 2010, 02:44 PM
Shakib much better batsman than vettori? Disagree, Shakib as of now is not much better, but he's by far the better bowler imo.
<br />Posted via BC Mobile Edition

nycpro96
December 29, 2010, 03:21 PM
Shakib much better batsman than vettori? Disagree, Shakib as of now is not much better, but he's by far the better bowler imo.
<br />Posted via BC Mobile Edition

I don't even see how you can compare Shakib's batting with Vettori's. Vettori is completely inferior to Shakib in the batting department. Vettori might be a little better than Shakib with the ball though. But not by a whole lot.

Shaan
December 29, 2010, 04:24 PM
Shakib much better batsman than vettori? Disagree, Shakib as of now is not much better, but he's by far the better bowler imo.

Posted via BC Mobile Edition
Shakib is musch better batsman comparing to Vettori, only thing Shakib played lesser than Vettory!!

Shakib:

<table class="engineTable"><tbody><tr class="data1"><td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Batting and fielding averages <table class="engineTable"><thead> <tr class="head"> <th title="class name" class="left" nowrap="nowrap">
</th> <th title="matches played" nowrap="nowrap">Mat</th> <th title="innings batted" nowrap="nowrap">Inns</th> <th title="not outs" nowrap="nowrap">NO</th> <th title="runs scored" nowrap="nowrap">Runs</th> <th title="highest inns score" class="padAst" nowrap="nowrap">HS</th> <th title="batting average" nowrap="nowrap">Ave</th> <th title="balls faced" nowrap="nowrap">BF</th> <th title="batting strike rate" nowrap="nowrap">SR</th> <th title="hundreds scored" nowrap="nowrap">100</th> <th title="fifties scored" nowrap="nowrap">50</th> <th title="boundary fours" nowrap="nowrap">4s</th> <th title="boundary sixes" nowrap="nowrap">6s</th> <th title="catches taken" nowrap="nowrap">Ct</th> <th title="stumpings made" nowrap="nowrap">St</th> </tr> </thead> <tbody> <tr class="data1"> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Tests</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">21</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">40</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">2</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">1179</td> <td class="padAst" nowrap="nowrap">100</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">31.02</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">2123</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">55.53</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">1</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">5</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">158</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">6</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">8</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">0</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">ODIs</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">102</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">98</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">17</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">2834</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">134*</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">34.98</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">3655</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">77.53</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">5</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">17</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">258</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">19</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">28</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">0</td></tr></tbody></table></td> <td nowrap="nowrap">
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</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">28</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">0</td></tr></tbody></table>Vettori:

Batting and fielding averages <table class="engineTable"><thead> <tr class="head"> <th title="class name" class="left" nowrap="nowrap">
</th> <th title="matches played" nowrap="nowrap">Mat</th> <th title="innings batted" nowrap="nowrap">Inns</th> <th title="not outs" nowrap="nowrap">NO</th> <th title="runs scored" nowrap="nowrap">Runs</th> <th title="highest inns score" class="padAst" nowrap="nowrap">HS</th> <th title="batting average" nowrap="nowrap">Ave</th> <th title="balls faced" nowrap="nowrap">BF</th> <th title="batting strike rate" nowrap="nowrap">SR</th> <th title="hundreds scored" nowrap="nowrap">100</th> <th title="fifties scored" nowrap="nowrap">50</th> <th title="boundary fours" nowrap="nowrap">4s</th> <th title="boundary sixes" nowrap="nowrap">6s</th> <th title="catches taken" nowrap="nowrap">Ct</th> <th title="stumpings made" nowrap="nowrap">St</th> </tr> </thead> <tbody> <tr class="data1"> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Tests</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">103</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">157</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">23</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">4053</td> <td class="padAst" nowrap="nowrap">140</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">30.24</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">7036</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">57.60</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">5</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">22</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">499</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">15</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">57</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">0</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">ODIs</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">263</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">168</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">49</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">2039</td> <td class="padAst" nowrap="nowrap">83</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">17.13</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">2504</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">81.42</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">0</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">4</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">149</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">14</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">75</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">0</td></tr></tbody></table>

source:
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/player/56143.html
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/player/38710.html

Kabir
December 29, 2010, 04:30 PM
Not sure if I am a big fan of the word "even" as it relates to this article. If you want to show disrespect, state it without that "even". "Event" makes it sound like...typically all our players are not worth it, but now even we can be a big guy like you.

Oh well - can't complain about everything. Right?

dolcevita
December 29, 2010, 04:36 PM
Not sure if I am a big fan of the word "even" as it relates to this article. If you want to show disrespect, state it without that "even". "Event" makes it sound like...typically all our players are not worth it, but now even we can be a big guy like you.

Oh well - can't complain about everything. Right?

its the newspaper who chose the word EVEN to make it more DRAMA
<br />Posted via BC Mobile Edition (iPhone)

Equinox
December 29, 2010, 04:42 PM
Not sure if I am a big fan of the word "even" as it relates to this article. If you want to show disrespect, state it without that "even". "Event" makes it sound like...typically all our players are not worth it, but now even we can be a big guy like you.

Oh well - can't complain about everything. Right?
If you read the article carefully Siddons never says "even." It's the reporter who adds it in the title.

Kabir
December 29, 2010, 04:44 PM
^^I see - thanks. Too much kahani ghar ghar ki is going on here.

bangla-red
December 29, 2010, 05:15 PM
So we have to 2 world class player. We need to double that by the end of year 2011.

We can't make players out of nothing... you can only become world-class if you have the potential. Having said that, Razzak could be classed as a world-class ODI player if he continues his form into 2011. I'm not sure where the other one would come from, you could argue that Mash could be world-class if he didn't break down so often.

Kabir
December 29, 2010, 05:23 PM
Somewhere in there I saw a great potential in Naeem Islam. I haven't seen him get picked for a while now. His late order cameo can be useful - and has been useful before.

MohammedC
December 29, 2010, 05:25 PM
^^^ So you saying there is no one else who have potential.

I say word "potential" sux. What you need is hunger to succeed like Shakib and Tamim.
<br />Posted via BC Mobile Edition (iPhone)

22Yards
December 29, 2010, 05:33 PM
I dont see any other word class in the making (except razzak but he too proves quite ineffective with stronger teams). But i would love to see some new faces (rumman). Players whom we have seen enough of (Ashraful, Rakibul, Junaid (I will let him play tests tho) ) should be discarded immediately (after the WC, before is better although dont quite see that happening) and should be replaced with the likes of Jahurul, SN, Naeem and Mahmudullah so that we can reach a conclusion about them. Thats my goal for 2011 in a nutshell.

Kabir
December 29, 2010, 05:36 PM
^^^ So you saying there is no one else who have potential.

I say word "potential" sux. What you need is hunger to succeed like Shakib and Tamim.
<br />Posted via BC Mobile Edition (iPhone)

Nope, I didn't say that.

I agree, we use the term 'potential' too lightly. Potential is nothing without the hunger for success. Sakib and Tamim were potentials too, but they wanted to be the best and worked on it. Unlike...need I complete the sentence?

22Yards
December 29, 2010, 05:42 PM
Somewhere in there I saw a great potential in Naeem Islam. I haven't seen him get picked for a while now. His late order cameo can be useful - and has been useful before.

Somewhere in there i saw great potential in Naeem to be a batsman and not a slogger. Often times he has difficulty making the connection with his bat and bowl when in rage to score runs. That job i think only Mashrafe has done better than anyone in bangladesh camp. DId you see the Zim match where naeem was struggling to hit while mashrafe was hitting the bowl around the park easily during death overs ?

I'd say move him UP the order.

MohammedC
December 29, 2010, 05:43 PM
Nope, I didn't say that.

I agree, we use the term 'potential' too lightly. Potential is nothing without the hunger for success. Sakib and Tamim were potentials too, but they wanted to be the best and worked on it. Unlike...need I complete the sentence?

Sorry Kabir bhai, I was replying to bangla-red.

Can I call Fazal bhai to complete your sentence.

Kabir
December 29, 2010, 05:48 PM
Sorry Kabir bhai, I was replying to bangla-red.

Can I call Fazal bhai to complete your sentence.

My bad :)

Where is Fazal mamoo? He seems to be in complete hibernation now - or is he?

bangla-red
December 29, 2010, 06:19 PM
^^^ So you saying there is no one else who have potential.

I say word "potential" sux. What you need is hunger to succeed like Shakib and Tamim.
<br />Posted via BC Mobile Edition (iPhone)

By hunger to succeed, someone can become a good player. But a world-class player needs the talent. I don't see anyone in our team (apart from Razzak, like I've already mentioned) that could become a world-class player in the next year and there's only a few here that could do it in their career. International standard, yes, world-class, no.

simon
December 29, 2010, 06:43 PM
besides Tamim likes Shane Watson too.;)

Baundule
December 29, 2010, 07:09 PM
Shakib will make any team and Tamim with a bit more control of his temper would have also done the same. Good that Siddons chose the right time to bring us in the discussion of test cricket.

But asking Australia to learn from us is lame. They are up against the red-hot English team and their key batsmen losing the form and getting injured do not make the task easy. Still they have managed to win one and draw another one remaining on commanding position. The two tests they have lost are due to their batting failure in the first innings from where they could not recover. They are sure to get things right before the world cup. If Hauritz performs well, they may be the surprise winner of the world cup as well.

The situation of Bangladesh cricket is completely different from that of the Aussies. The same medicine, whatever it is, does not apply to them. Siddons has taken the approach of developing players playing in the national team. The Aussies have much better infrastructure and their players are ready at the very first moment when they start playing international cricket. With every Australian player, not only the likes of Ponting and Clarke, form is the key, there is nothing to 'work them up' as suggested by Siddons. They are already finished products.

Equinox
December 29, 2010, 07:14 PM
Shakib will make any team and Tamim with a bit more control of his temper would have also done the same. Good that Siddons chose the right time to bring us in the discussion of test cricket.

But asking Australia to learn from us is lame. They are up against the red-hot English team and their key batsmen losing the form and getting injured do not make the task easy. Still they have managed to win one and draw another one remaining on commanding position. The two tests they have lost are due to their batting failure in the first innings from where they could not recover. They are sure to get things right before the world cup. If Hauritz performs well, they may be the surprise winner of the world cup as well.

The situation of Bangladesh cricket is completely different from that of the Aussies. The same medicine, whatever it is, does not apply to them. Siddons has taken the approach of developing players playing in the national team. The Aussies have much better infrastructure and their players are ready at the very first moment when they start playing international cricket. With every Australian player, not only the likes of Ponting and Clarke, form is the key, there is nothing to 'work them up' as suggested by Siddons. They are already finished products.
So Steven Smith, Phil Hughes, Tim Paine, Xavier Doherty are finished products? No matter how good a country's domestic structure and development program is it never fully prepares a player for International cricket. There is also something called experience. Siddons is spot on here and it fully applies to the current Australian scenario.

PoorFan
December 29, 2010, 10:08 PM
As Shamim would have said ... "Siddons is on fire!". Nice read.

shakibrulz
December 29, 2010, 10:23 PM
Shakib is musch better batsman comparing to Vettori, only thing Shakib played lesser than Vettory!!

Shakib:
Vettori:

source:
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/player/56143.html
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/player/38710.html
Vettori averaged nearly 60 in 2009. He averages 50+ against Pak and has decent record against other countries too. Take out that knocks against WI and Shakib's average drops considerably. So I don't think Shakib's better than Vettori in batting as of now, let alone being much better. He might improve on that, of course.

But Shakib's bowling is awesome. He gets lots of turn and drift despite his round arm action (which is not ideal for spinners btw). Terrific bowler, much better than Vettori.

shakibrulz
December 29, 2010, 10:26 PM
I don't even see how you can compare Shakib's batting with Vettori's. Vettori is completely inferior to Shakib in the batting department. Vettori might be a little better than Shakib with the ball though. But not by a whole lot.
Answered above. And really surprised to see no one rates Shakib much as a bowler. Even NZers rate Shakib higher than Vettori with the ball.

That said, Vettori was nowhere as good as Shakib when he was of his age, though.

al Furqaan
December 29, 2010, 10:28 PM
Shakib much better batsman than vettori? Disagree, Shakib as of now is not much better, but he's by far the better bowler imo.
<br />Posted via BC Mobile Edition

i think the opposite is true. actually i think shakib is or at least will be the better bowler, batsman, fielder, captain, you name it.

however, as of now, vettori has proven himself as a bowler, more than shakib has. the numbers suggest it also. vettori is also a more intelligent bowler who picks wickets although he can't turn the ball an inch.

in the same vein, shakib is leagues better than vettori as a batsman. ODIs its not even up for discussion. tests, although the numbers suggest they're even, its plain to see DV is at his ceiling. in other words DV is a 25 average batsman who happens to be averaging 30+ right now. shakib is a 40 average batsman who happens to be averaging 30+ right now.

Night_wolf
December 29, 2010, 10:42 PM
Answered above. And really surprised to see no one rates Shakib much as a bowler. Even NZers rate Shakib higher than Vettori with the ball.

That said, Vettori was nowhere as good as Shakib when he was of his age, though.

i trust u on this but a source would be nice:D (i just want to read!)

Night_wolf
December 29, 2010, 10:44 PM
we now need a world class 1st bowler..i think rubel has all the potential to be that in the future..lets hope he doesn't do a mash..

max410
December 29, 2010, 10:59 PM
thank god he did not choose Ashraful in fact AS n fooool has no talent and does not deserve to play for BD , consistency is the key

IanW
December 29, 2010, 11:53 PM
Shakib will make any team and Tamim with a bit more control of his temper would have also done the same. Good that Siddons chose the right time to bring us in the discussion of test cricket.

But asking Australia to learn from us is lame. They are up against the red-hot English team and their key batsmen losing the form and getting injured do not make the task easy. Still they have managed to win one and draw another one remaining on commanding position. The two tests they have lost are due to their batting failure in the first innings from where they could not recover. They are sure to get things right before the world cup. If Hauritz performs well, they may be the surprise winner of the world cup as well.

The situation of Bangladesh cricket is completely different from that of the Aussies. The same medicine, whatever it is, does not apply to them. Siddons has taken the approach of developing players playing in the national team. The Aussies have much better infrastructure and their players are ready at the very first moment when they start playing international cricket. With every Australian player, not only the likes of Ponting and Clarke, form is the key, there is nothing to 'work them up' as suggested by Siddons. They are already finished products.

Bandule, 2006 just called, and thanked you for the memories.

I mean, *seriously* have you seen Australia play this year ? Two of Australia's lowest ten scores in Test cricket have happened in calendar year 2010.

cricket_king
December 29, 2010, 11:58 PM
Shakib much better batsman than vettori? Disagree, Shakib as of now is not much better, but he's by far the better bowler imo.
<br />Posted via BC Mobile Edition

I don't even see how you can compare Shakib's batting with Vettori's. Vettori is completely inferior to Shakib in the batting department. Vettori might be a little better than Shakib with the ball though. But not by a whole lot.

Both Shakib's batting and bowling surpasses Vettori's. Vettori is probably a little more solid when first coming in, and Shakib perhaps a little shaky initially, but when Shakib's set and on song with the bat, Vettori doesn't even come close. Bowling-wise, they bowl quite differently, so it's not easy to compare. I would say Vettori bowls slightly flatter, while Shakib likes to toss it up moreso. Either way, you only need to look at the stats - who has taken more wickets this year?

No one comes anywhere near Shakib.

Shaan
December 30, 2010, 02:45 AM
Mushfiq is also a good candidate for world class player title who just need to prove his batting potentiality.. We all know what a good batsman he is, just look at his recent DPL bating !!

beshideshi
December 30, 2010, 04:31 AM
Big up to Siddons for stating the obvious[though it will be a huge surprise to the Aus media]. Given the current state of the Australian team, Abdur Razzak will also walk in the team.
And if Australia plays test matches in Bangladesh, we might see some serious re-writing of the record books.

IanW
December 30, 2010, 04:33 AM
Beshideshi,

I'd pick any of Razzak, Shuvo, Enamul or even Rafique ahead of Beer or Doherty.

shakibrulz
December 30, 2010, 05:08 AM
Big up to Siddons for stating the obvious[though it will be a huge surprise to the Aus media]. Given the current state of the Australian team, Abdur Razzak will also walk in the team.
And if Australia plays test matches in Bangladesh, we might see some serious re-writing of the record books.

....unless batsmen play like headless chickens, yes.

beshideshi
December 30, 2010, 05:31 AM
....unless batsmen play like headless chickens, yes.

There always is an if ......

and yes Ian, doherty, Beer, Hauritz and even Steve Smith will have a hard time finding a place in the Bangladesh team right now.

IanW
December 30, 2010, 05:40 AM
....unless batsmen play like headless chickens, yes.

If Shaiful can bowl at the top of off stump at 140, as he can, and Rubel can get it to swing both ways at 140, as he can, and if Shakib can keep it *just* there, as he can, then the sort of headless chickens that collapsed for 88 at Leeds and 98 at the MCG are more than possible.

Baundule
December 30, 2010, 05:48 AM
So Steven Smith, Phil Hughes, Tim Paine, Xavier Doherty are finished products? No matter how good a country's domestic structure and development program is it never fully prepares a player for International cricket. There is also something called experience. Siddons is spot on here and it fully applies to the current Australian scenario.
All those guys you mentioned (and also add Beer) are just makeshift players, they are coming in the team only to cover up injured players or as an effort to try something new. Australia certainly has finished products (Hauritz, Katich, Haddin and Hodge and David and ....) for those positions. If I read correctly, those weak links are inline with Siddons' suggestions. As per Siddons, the Aussies has to now 'develop' these or some other bunch of players, while already developed players are performing in the domestic circuit. You are right about the international experience part. But it also depends on the standard of the domestic cricket. Australia having a high standard of their domestic cricket will produce players that can (most often) survive well in the international arena. For us, the story is different, our highest run scorer may fail to survive against quality bowling.

Bandule, 2006 just called, and thanked you for the memories.

I mean, *seriously* have you seen Australia play this year ? Two of Australia's lowest ten scores in Test cricket have happened in calendar year 2010.
In this year most of their batsmen are having a deep in their forms. They are used to playing attacking cricket; but that is not possible when your Ricky Ponting continues scoring 10-, Clarke can not time the ball, no opener can make it a big score and the tailenders are left with too much to do with the bat which they were not used to. The bowling looks fine, except the uncertainty about the spinner. I expected a much better performance in the World cup, because they are to include some in form players.

You can mark this post and revisit after the world cup. If only half of their batsmen can perform, they will play the world cup final.

IanW
December 30, 2010, 06:11 AM
Bandule,

You posted

"The Aussies have much better infrastructure and their players are ready at the very first moment when they start playing international cricket. With every Australian player, not only the likes of Ponting and Clarke, form is the key, there is nothing to 'work them up' as suggested by Siddons. They are already finished products. "

I quoted the current Australian #2 batsman, the current #6 batsman, their current #1 and #2 spinner as being totally unready for international cricket.

You then say "All those guys you mentioned (and also add Beer) are just makeshift players, they are coming in the team only to cover up injured players or as an effort to try something new."

I say the fact they arent up to international cricket - at least international cricket where pitches and balls are rigged in favour of batsmen - shows that your statement about the Australian infrastructure to be working is crap.

Something has broken, badly, in Australian cricket. It cannot currently seem to make anything other than Ahmed Aftab.

Bandule, go read the Cricinfo commentary on the Australian first innings against pakistan at Leeds, and against England at the MCG. See how absolutely <expletive deleted> similar the dismissals are to the old Bangladesh. Its the same wafts outside off stump, the same suicide running, the same refusal to work yourself in.

Thats the scary bit for me.

Baundule
December 30, 2010, 06:36 AM
Bandule,

You posted

"The Aussies have much better infrastructure and their players are ready at the very first moment when they start playing international cricket. With every Australian player, not only the likes of Ponting and Clarke, form is the key, there is nothing to 'work them up' as suggested by Siddons. They are already finished products. "

I quoted the current Australian #2 batsman, the current #6 batsman, their current #1 and #2 spinner as being totally unready for international cricket.

You then say "All those guys you mentioned (and also add Beer) are just makeshift players, they are coming in the team only to cover up injured players or as an effort to try something new."

I say the fact they arent up to international cricket - at least international cricket where pitches and balls are rigged in favour of batsmen - shows that your statement about the Australian infrastructure to be working is crap.

Something has broken, badly, in Australian cricket. It cannot currently seem to make anything other than Ahmed Aftab.

Bandule, go read the Cricinfo commentary on the Australian first innings against pakistan at Leeds, and against England at the MCG. See how absolutely <EXPLETIVE deleted>similar the dismissals are to the old Bangladesh. Its the same wafts outside off stump, the same suicide running, the same refusal to work yourself in.

Thats the scary bit for me.

It may be the problem with the selectors. They are laughable to select the likes of Doherty or Beer or out of form Hughes when better players are being neglected. Selectors being included in the 'system' says there is some problem with the system; but that does not mean that the standard of their domestic cricket is crap as long as there are players who are capable of playing international cricket.

In the Leeds test, Watson-Katich-Ponting-Clarke-Hussey scored 5-13-6-3-5. These guys are not the product of the current system. The older system should have polished them enough to sustain against the pollution of the new system. And none of them were caught behind, 4 lbws and one bowled. I do not see the point with the 'wafts outside the off'.

From the India example, a single Zaheer khan can completely change the scenario of a test match. And you can not replace the likes of Warne, Gilly, Hayden, McGrath, Waughs overnight.

beshideshi
December 30, 2010, 06:43 AM
I was having a chat with a baggy green legend a few days back, and he mentioned that Aus are in a rebuilding process.

Now, the problem with this is, Aussies are not used to seeing their test team be in a rebuilding phase. 85% of the current Australian cricket fans will only remember the dominance that started from Allan Border era, through the Mark Taylor, Steve Waugh era. I do not think there is a major fault with the Australian system, I believe the Australian selectors need to be a bit more patient, you can't juggle your players all the time. You have to give the players time to settle in and then perform. The same problem haunted Bangladesh for the last 10 years, until Jamie Siddons came in and brought some sanity to the selection. Nowadays players are given numerous chances to prove themselves, and as a result players who looked totally out of sort initially, found their feet and now serving their team well. [Imrul, Junaid, Shafiul, Shuvo]

shakibrulz
December 30, 2010, 07:10 AM
If Shaiful can bowl at the top of off stump at 140, as he can, and Rubel can get it to swing both ways at 140, as he can, and if Shakib can keep it *just* there, as he can, then the sort of headless chickens that collapsed for 88 at Leeds and 98 at the MCG are more than possible.
Shafiul and Rubel are good, but not good enough to get them bundled for that sorta score. Otherwise preparing a raging turner might help, yes.

BD batsmen have mastered the art of throwing away wickets from commanding positions, can't always expect Tamim and Shakib to take you home.

Night_wolf
December 30, 2010, 07:41 AM
if we just can get hussy out cheap we have more than a shot in wining a test vs aus..still we have to be wary of ponting..he is out of from but he is pure class..others have no chance vs shakib..

Tendulkar_Mcgrath
December 30, 2010, 01:56 PM
unlike other ex-coach, siddon hasenough gutts to show his team ahead of other teams. He has that fighting spirit. i liked that attitude.

DJ Sahastra
December 30, 2010, 03:22 PM
I would've definitely liked Tamim to open with Sehwag in the Durban test, and Shakib to bowl with Harbhajan and bat after Laxman in the Centurion Test.

DJ Sahastra
December 30, 2010, 03:32 PM
If Shaiful can bowl at the top of off stump at 140, as he can, and Rubel can get it to swing both ways at 140, as he can, and if Shakib can keep it *just* there, as he can, then the sort of headless chickens that collapsed for 88 at Leeds and 98 at the MCG are more than possible.

If Saiful and Rubel can swing it at 140, they will rise to be the best opening attack in Test today. I am not sure there are many bowlers today that can swing both ways at 140.

If it is true, i need to watch these lads. Any video links to their recent exploits? Koi?

Equinox
December 30, 2010, 03:39 PM
If Saiful and Rubel can swing it at 140, they will rise to be the best opening attack in Test today. I am not sure there are many bowlers today that can swing both ways at 140.

If it is true, i need to watch these lads. Any video links to their recent exploits? Koi?
<object width="480" height="391"><param name="movie" value="http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/video/xcfitu?width=480&theme=none&foreground=%23F7FFFD&highlight=%23FFC300&background=%23171D1B&start=&animatedTitle=&iframe=0&additionalInfos=0&autoPlay=0&hideInfos=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"></param><embed type="application/x-shockwave-flash" src="http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/video/xcfitu?width=480&theme=none&foreground=%23F7FFFD&highlight=%23FFC300&background=%23171D1B&start=&animatedTitle=&iframe=0&additionalInfos=0&autoPlay=0&hideInfos=0" width="480" height="391" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always"></embed></object><br /><b><a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xcfitu_dailymotion-baneng24-a-webcam-vlogs_school">Dailymotion - baneng24 - a Webcam Vlogs video</a></b><br /><i>Uploaded by <a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/bilayy">bilayy</a>. - <a target="_self" href="http://www.dailymotion.com/gb/channel/school">College experience videos.</a></i>
Was watching it yesterday. Not exactly recent. Excellent opening spells from Shafiul and Rubel against very adept players of pace. Shafiul especially, clocked very close to 90 mph in BD conditions whereas earlier the highest Broad and Bresnan clocked were around 85/86 mph. England very lucky to be only one down after Shafiul and Rubel finished bowling. Rubel btw has improved a lot now but Shafiul is still the better bowler in my book.

DJ Sahastra
December 30, 2010, 05:50 PM
Thanks Equinox. Good Video.

Now i remember seeing Shafiul and Rubel bowl before. I was just not able to corelate their names with their bowling action.

They both have good solid action and follow through. They have the potential to be to be very effective in English conditions. I haven't seen them swing both ways yet but if they do, they will be taking their and BD teams prospect up by a notch or two.

I am gonna follow their exploits from here on - to see how they pan out.

IanW
December 30, 2010, 09:38 PM
DJ Sahastra,

What impresses me about Rubel and Shaiful is that they have the potential to be effective anywhere.

Check how often they cracked the opening partnerships in the recent home ODIs, for example.

Tigers_eye
December 30, 2010, 09:52 PM
Shakib much better batsman than vettori? Disagree, Shakib as of now is not much better, but he's by far the better bowler imo.

Posted via BC Mobile Edition
Entire career Vetki mas only could muster one century (ODIs). You should know how many Shakib has already!!

HereWeGo
December 30, 2010, 09:53 PM
Remember during the first Trip down under for Bangladesh..... After the tour I believe it was Hayden that mentioned on the interview that only Hannan Sarkar and the new Fast Bowler (Mashrafee) was good enough to play first class cricket in Australia.
Clearly we have come a long way...

shakibrulz
December 30, 2010, 10:22 PM
Entire career Vetki mas only could muster one century (ODIs). You should know how many Shakib has already!!
Was talking about tests tbh.

shakibrulz
December 30, 2010, 10:33 PM
@Equinox

Thanks for the Viddy. Yes, bowled damn well those two. Though I rate Rubel higher because of his ability to reverse the ball at good pace. But highly erratic now. If he can up his pace, he can be BD's version of Mitchel Johnson. Shafiul is the better bowler with the new ball, he's a handful when there's some conventional swing on offer. Both are very good prospects, yes.

simon
December 31, 2010, 06:54 AM
this is the PA version of the same article,
http://www.prothom-alo.com/detail/date/2010-12-31/news/119689

Night_wolf
December 31, 2010, 07:08 AM
this is the PA version of the same article,
http://www.prothom-alo.com/detail/date/2010-12-31/news/119689

thanks simon vai:)

simon
December 31, 2010, 07:33 AM
thanks simon vai:)

WC Nekre bhai.:)

Tigers_eye
December 31, 2010, 09:08 AM
I would've definitely liked Tamim to open with Sehwag in the Durban test, and Shakib to bowl with Harbhajan and bat after Laxman in the Centurion Test.
(Tamim and Shakib is the BD team)
no DJ no!! U want BD team to merge with Indian team???? Hahahaha!!! I have done my Phd on twisting words!!! Soon you will say I want Rubel at any cost. Off ja shala!! :goal:

simon
December 31, 2010, 09:43 AM
I wish Siddons was asked " Who are the Aussie players who won't get a chance in BD team?"

dolcevita
December 31, 2010, 09:58 AM
Entire career Vetki mas only could muster one century (ODIs). You should know how many Shakib has already!!

In fact he Has ZERO century in odi , his highest ODI score is 83 and has scored ONLY 4 FIFTY after 263 ODI and his batting average is 17.1
wheras Shakib has already 5 century and 17(/18) fity after 100 ODI and an average of 35
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Kabir
December 31, 2010, 10:44 AM
Not sure why there's a comparison happening between Sakib and Vettori. Compare apples with apples.

Sakib can only hope to be a bowler like Vettori. Vettori can only dream to be a batsman like Sakib. Sakib is a batsman with talent, while Vettori is a batsman with experience (think Pollock). Sakib has a lot to learn about captaincy. Vettori has been time tested, and he stands there as an auto-approved choice as a captain. Sakib has only recently earned that respect, but hasn't been tested all that much.

IMO, it's only foolish to compare the two as if they're the same category of players. Vettori's towards the end of his career, while Sakib is only starting his.

shakibrulz
December 31, 2010, 10:52 AM
It really disgusts me when people rate Shakib's bowling so badly. I'm a member of quite a few forums and majority of the NZers I have seen rates Shakib's bowling higher. Shakib can get the ball to turn visciously despite being a SLA and his round arm action (which means less flight, obv).

Also reckon Shakib's test batting is worse than Vettori atm.

Kabir
December 31, 2010, 11:03 AM
^^Was that in response to my post? If it was - not sure you could follow what I said.

shakibrulz
December 31, 2010, 11:23 AM
^^Was that in response to my post? If it was - not sure you could follow what I said.
Not particulary, but still yes:

Vettori can only dream to be a batsman like Sakib

Kabir
December 31, 2010, 11:26 AM
The part you quoted doesn't even talk about Sakib's bowling!

shakibrulz
December 31, 2010, 11:40 AM
The part you quoted doesn't even talk about Sakib's bowling!
Uh, sorry bout that. I meant this part:

Sakib can only hope to be a bowler like Vettori.

BANFAN
December 31, 2010, 11:42 AM
Where is the dispute ?

Shakib has a better form than vetori at the moment, with both bat and ball. Vetori has a long successful career that shakib can dream to achieve and can even dream higher.

dolcevita
December 31, 2010, 11:52 AM
Where is the dispute ?

Shakib has a better form than vetori at the moment, with both bat and ball. Vetori has a long successful career that shakib can dream to achieve and can even dream higher.

Vettori too was in form but he is just an average batsmen in odi
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Kabir
December 31, 2010, 11:58 AM
Uh, sorry bout that. I meant this part:

Sakib can only hope to be a bowler like Vettori.

See below. Don't just judge a sentence without proper context.

Where is the dispute ?

Shakib has a better form than vetori at the moment, with both bat and ball. Vetori has a long successful career that shakib can dream to achieve and can even dream higher.

Ditto. Form is NOT the same as ability. An ordinary batsman in good form can score a couple of centuries, but that doesn't make him better than Tendulkar or Ponting. I don't mean to say Sakib is an ordinary bowler. He's the best WE have. All I mean to say is that Sakib can only hope that his bowling improves consistently when he stays in the international arena as long as Vettori.

tiger1000
December 31, 2010, 02:56 PM
Shakib is musch better batsman comparing to Vettori, only thing Shakib played lesser than Vettory!!

Shakib:
Vettori:

source:
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/player/56143.html
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/player/38710.html

Career average doesnt matter. Vettori started as a bowler but in recent years has averaged in the 40's with the bat.

rinathq
December 31, 2010, 07:36 PM
Daniel Vettori is a great player, he has the skills, energy and experience. At this stage comparing him with Sakib isn't fair. Dunt look at the stats unless they are significantly different (which they are not) because if u look at stats, aftab would be in the main xi!!!!
The way Sakib is cruising, he will reach the position Vettori is right now, lot quicker. But Sakib is far from it as of this point.
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dolcevita
December 31, 2010, 07:43 PM
Career average doesnt matter. Vettori started as a bowler but in recent years has averaged in the 40's with the bat.

Not in odi he is quite ordinary in odi with the bats : zero century and only 4 fifty after 263 odi , he is more likely an Harbajan singh with the bats

but i recons in test he is performing really well with the bat
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cricket_king
December 31, 2010, 08:20 PM
It really disgusts me when people rate Shakib's bowling so badly. I'm a member of quite a few forums and majority of the NZers I have seen rates Shakib's bowling higher. Shakib can get the ball to turn visciously despite being a SLA and his round arm action (which means less flight, obv).

Also reckon Shakib's test batting is worse than Vettori atm.

Bangladeshis tend to play down their own achievements when confronted by someone they see as superior. Of course, this may seem a generalisation, but I can't tell you how often I've seen this happen. Shakib > Vettori in all aspects for me.

Night_wolf
December 31, 2010, 08:58 PM
Not sure why there's a comparison happening between Sakib and Vettori. Compare apples with apples.

Sakib can only hope to be a bowler like Vettori. Vettori can only dream to be a batsman like Sakib. Sakib is a batsman with talent, while Vettori is a batsman with experience (think Pollock). Sakib has a lot to learn about captaincy. Vettori has been time tested, and he stands there as an auto-approved choice as a captain. Sakib has only recently earned that respect, but hasn't been tested all that much.

IMO, it's only foolish to compare the two as if they're the same category of players. Vettori's towards the end of his career, while Sakib is only starting his.

exactly..vettory has experience and maturity at his side..where shakib is just starting to be one of the best..its not right time to compare these two...when shakib reaches vetty's age we'll see where he stands..IMO he will be much better..

shakibrulz
December 31, 2010, 10:03 PM
Bangladeshis tend to play down their own achievements when confronted by someone they see as superior. Of course, this may seem a generalisation, but I can't tell you how often I've seen this happen. Shakib > Vettori in all aspects for me.
Ok. Shakib as a test batsman is still behind Vettori imo. The potential is there obviously, his temperament is not test class yet. In ODIs obviously Shakib pwns vettori.

shakibrulz
December 31, 2010, 10:07 PM
exactly..vettory has experience and maturity at his side..where shakib is just starting to be one of the best..its not right time to compare these two...when shakib reaches vetty's age we'll see where he stands..IMO he will be much better..
Watching them might help as well. I've watched Vettori since his early days, and I can say Shakib is easily the better bowler than Vettori. Dunno if he may play enough tests even to surpass Vettu's record, but still for me Shakib>Vettori as a bowler. Can't recall Vettori bowling destructive spells like Shakib did. On a turning wicket, Shakib can run through sides, but Vettori just relies on Variations mainly.

Equinox
January 1, 2011, 08:37 PM
I agree with shakibrulz here.

Shakib >>> Vettori - Test bowling
Shakib = Vettori - ODI bowling (Vettori might just be a tiny bit ahead)
Vettori >>> Shakib - Test batting
Shakib >>>>> Vettori - ODI batting

simon
January 2, 2011, 04:13 AM
^^ya,their strength & weakness are opposite to each other.

shakibrulz
January 2, 2011, 06:58 AM
I agree with shakibrulz here.

Shakib >>> Vettori - Test bowling
Shakib = Vettori - ODI bowling (Vettori might just be a tiny bit ahead)
Vettori >>> Shakib - Test batting
Shakib >>>>> Vettori - ODI batting
Yes, atleast as of now, it's like this.

Acura_tl88
January 2, 2011, 07:19 AM
why is it so hard to stick to the topics? ^^

anywayz, tamim would defintly walkinto any side as an opening batsmen except for maybe india, But i am still not convinced with shakibs batting, although very effective with the way he plays, his bowling is what makes up for the rest. so ya pretty legit argument from siddons.

and i think many of us are overrating shakib as an alrounder. yes hes good, but hes still no kalis,imran khan,sobers or even neil jhonson(not sure if i am saying his name right, but he used bat as an opening batsmen and bowl as an opening bowler with streak)

shakibrulz
January 2, 2011, 07:30 AM
why is it so hard to stick to the topics? ^^

anywayz, tamim would defintly walkinto any side as an opening batsmen except for maybe india, But i am still not convinced with shakibs batting, although very effective with the way he plays, his bowling is what makes up for the rest. so ya pretty legit argument from siddons.

and i think many of us are overrating shakib as an alrounder. yes hes good, but hes still no kalis,imran khan,sobers or even neil jhonson(not sure if i am saying his name right, but he used bat as an opening batsmen and bowl as an opening bowler with streak)

Would walk into most sides as purely a spinner, his batting is a massive bonus. So safe to say that anyone would kill to have Shakib in their team.
And Shakib>>>>Neil Johnson.

Acura_tl88
January 2, 2011, 07:53 AM
Would walk into most sides as purely a spinner, his batting is a massive bonus. So safe to say that anyone would kill to have Shakib in their team.
And Shakib>>>>Neil Johnson.

warne,murali,saqlain are what you call purly spinner , shakib is little bit above bits and piece sppiner. gradewise if those 3 mention above were 100, shakib is somewhere between 65-70. but then again thats not the argument.and he is slightly above bits and piece batsmen aswell, so like i said he makes up for it.

shakibrulz
January 2, 2011, 09:28 AM
warne,murali,saqlain are what you call purly spinner , shakib is little bit above bits and piece sppiner. gradewise if those 3 mention above were 100, shakib is somewhere between 65-70. but then again thats not the argument.and he is slightly above bits and piece batsmen aswell, so like i said he makes up for it.
What the hell? So you got to be as good as Warne, Murali, Saqlain to be called a spinner? What I said was he would walk into any side just as a spinner FYI. Should maybe read before replying.

And if Warne was 100, and Shakib is 70 now, that means he is a top quality spinner for gods sake. Not that we have better spinners bowling now. And funny you call him a bits and pieces spinner, check his averages after he became a regular bowler and would be interested to know how many young spinners has 5 wickets against all the oppositions faced?

And though I don't rate his batting that highly, calling his batting bits and pieces is a disgrace. What I call a bits and pieces player is Jadeja, Doherty, etc. Shakib is quality. If you don't realize, then you don't know jack about cricket.

I rest my case.

Acura_tl88
January 2, 2011, 02:30 PM
What the hell? So you got to be as good as Warne, Murali, Saqlain to be called a spinner? What I said was he would walk into any side just as a spinner FYI. Should maybe read before replying.

And if Warne was 100, and Shakib is 70 now, that means he is a top quality spinner for gods sake. Not that we have better spinners bowling now. And funny you call him a bits and pieces spinner, check his averages after he became a regular bowler and would be interested to know how many young spinners has 5 wickets against all the oppositions faced?

And though I don't rate his batting that highly, calling his batting bits and pieces is a disgrace. What I call a bits and pieces player is Jadeja, Doherty, etc. Shakib is quality. If you don't realize, then you don't know jack about cricket.

I rest my case.

i dont know jack about cricket because my opinion is different than yours?

you sound like some hs kid and your also delusional. i stay stick to dreaming about shakib everynight.

IanW
January 2, 2011, 03:49 PM
What the hell? So you got to be as good as Warne, Murali, Saqlain to be called a spinner? What I said was he would walk into any side just as a spinner FYI. Should maybe read before replying..

What he said.

Not rating a spinner as Test-quality because he isnt Shane Warne is Ricky Ponting-level stupidity.

Acura, read the topic. Its not about best their ever were, it's not even about World-class. Its about who playing for Bangladesh could get in the Australian side.

Spinners : Sakib, Razzaq, Mahmadullah all have better records than Beer or Doherty. And are better. And in the case of two of them, can bat.

Quicks : Shaiful and Rubel would be in the mix, but probably wouldnt get in ahead of the incumbents. Shahadat is like Mitchell Johnson, only less deadly when on song.

Keeper : Nope

Batsman : Tanim for sure. Others have the same issues as Shaiful and Rubel (and for that matter, Australian Shield batsmen, whose exploits at first class level dont seem to count).

Ian Whitchurch

Tiger444
January 2, 2011, 04:19 PM
Its great to see siddons stating this. Shows he has great belief in our players. Shakib would make any test squad and tamim would make any test squad as well. Just wish all our other players we could say the same about but unfortunately that's not the case. Gotta hope that some of the others become super stars as well.
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tiger1000
January 4, 2011, 08:21 AM
Not in odi he is quite ordinary in odi with the bats : zero century and only 4 fifty after 263 odi , he is more likely an Harbajan singh with the bats

but i recons in test he is performing really well with the bat

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I was talking abput test but in ODI Shakib is in a different class with the bat