View Full Version : What is Truth?

July 2, 2011, 07:53 PM
<iframe width="560" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/e-HM-aD-Jgk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

ברוך אתה ה א‑לוהינו\ מלך העולם, אשר קדשנו במצותו וצונו על מצות תפילין

"Blessed are You, Lord, our God, King of the universe, Who has sanctified us with His commandments and has commanded us regarding the commandment of tefillin."

July 2, 2011, 10:51 PM
No one cares about the 'Truth'? I am hurt. Thought I would be the Truth bearer. :(

bujhee kom
July 2, 2011, 11:00 PM
You want the truth son?
You cAN't handle the truth boyy...

heree..lemme give you some truth syrum pump right into you left eye ball...

"ahimsa paramo dharma" - Vasudha Narayanan

July 3, 2011, 12:59 AM
You want the truth son?
You cAN't handle the truth boyy...

heree..lemme give you some truth syrum pump right into you left eye ball...

"ahimsa paramo dharma" - Vasudha Narayanan


July 3, 2011, 08:10 AM
This is ACTUALLY a good thread, Zeeshan!

I find this videos good and interesting:
<EMBED height=390 type=application/x-shockwave-flash width=640 src=http://www.youtube.com/v/URi5DwpQN-k?version=3 allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always"> (http://<object style="height: 390px; width: 640px"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/URi5DwpQN-k?version=3"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/URi5DwpQN-k?version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="390"></object>)

<EMBED height=390 type=application/x-shockwave-flash width=640 src=http://www.youtube.com/v/TXNus4Ou0TQ?version=3 allowScriptAccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"> (http://<object style="height: 390px; width: 640px"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/TXNus4Ou0TQ?version=3"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/TXNus4Ou0TQ?version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="390"></object>)

July 3, 2011, 08:32 AM
bujhlam na bishoy ta.
Shotti bola ki ehudee der kach theke shikte hobey?

July 3, 2011, 08:34 AM
So see, no one gets annoyed when you open threads in relation to Judaism.

July 3, 2011, 09:33 AM
So see, no one gets annoyed when you open threads in relation to Judaism.

Of course! :) Because we are learning a lot from here...! ZM bro, a point to note down here ;)

July 3, 2011, 12:11 PM

Just curious what part of BK's post was sooooooooooo hilarious? The fact that he mentioned of pumping serum in left eye that got you all sprawled on floor laughing after the religion-based encounter in Shob-e-Borat thread?

July 3, 2011, 04:24 PM
Zeeshan what's wrong with you? seems like you dont like Islamic discussion or hate it. why? Why dont you just ignore this? :outbad:

July 3, 2011, 04:38 PM
May Allah put compassion, Love, and security in our hearts :)

May Allah protect us from inferiority complex, may Allah help us understand the reality so that we find comfort in remembering him. May Allah give us the means to appreciate each other, may Allah give us the means to respect each other even though We may be wrong or we may be right. may Allah put that peace and serenity in our hearts that which he bestowed upon prophet Ibrahim(A'laihis salam) and his successors!

May Allah help us coexist without infringing upon the rights of others, for indeed there is no compulsion in faith. at the end of the day, you believe what you want to believe and as nocturnal bhai has said "reasons are the coins we pay for the beliefs we hold"

July 4, 2011, 11:01 AM
Just curious what part of BK's post was sooooooooooo hilarious? The fact that he mentioned of pumping serum in left eye that got you all sprawled on floor laughing after the religion-based encounter in Shob-e-Borat thread?

No it had nothing to do with the Shob-e-barat thread. I found it funny, I laughed. Simple equation.

July 4, 2011, 02:45 PM
Truth is relative to the number of empty bottles.

July 4, 2011, 06:52 PM

July 4, 2011, 08:40 PM
Truth is a matter of perception.

July 4, 2011, 09:39 PM
its seems it takes only a couple of post till all thread topics somehow turn into an islamic discussion in Forget Cricket.

bujhee kom
July 4, 2011, 11:01 PM
People just back off everyone and stop this nonsense. I have posted something that has no meaning...no meaning at all...it wasn't meant to insult Gopal, Gopal's thread, Judaism, Hinduism, Islam or Christianity. The Vasudha Narayanan reference wasn't an attack to Gopal or his video links. Let's get it through all of you bickering people. Please wake up and be ashamed of yourselves.

July 4, 2011, 11:11 PM

bujhee kom
July 5, 2011, 12:08 AM
^^Zee, I am really sorry...I didn't at all mean to hurt you, insult you or your post....it was just me blank, you know. Gopal please forgive me!

July 5, 2011, 01:03 AM
The earliest Sumerian poems are now considered to be distinct stories rather than constituting a single epic.<SUP id=cite_ref-Dalley_1-0 class=reference>[2]</SUP><SUP style="WHITE-SPACE: nowrap" class=reference>:45</SUP> They date from as early as the Third Dynasty of Ur (2150-2000 BC).<SUP id=cite_ref-Dalley_1-1 class=reference>[2]</SUP><SUP style="WHITE-SPACE: nowrap" class=reference>:41-42</SUP> The earliest Akkadian versions are dated to the early second millennium <SUP id=cite_ref-Dalley_1-2 class=reference>[2]</SUP><SUP style="WHITE-SPACE: nowrap" class=reference>:45</SUP>, most likely in the eighteenth or seventeenth century BC, when one or more authors used existing literary material to form the epic of Gilgamesh.<SUP id=cite_ref-2 class=reference>[3]</SUP> The "standard" Akkadian version, consisting of 12 tablets, was edited by Sin-liqe-unninni sometime between 1300 and 1000 BC and was found in the library of Ashurbanipal in Nineveh.

Once a truth could become a myth? or is it other way around?! Lets read some mythology of Sumerian Gilgamesh, let see how amazing some of those stories are, especially his journey for eternal life, and Ishtar's journey to underworld [dead world] are my favorite. Some of the stories has similarities among Greek mythologies [Hades] , Hebrew text [Noah] are also interesting, In later Akkadian, Babylonian, and Assyrian stories has same similarities too, however these mythologies could be just stories of those days, or could be believed as religion in those region and to those people. As it seems later one to be the case, Isnt it safe to say 'Once a truth could become a myth'?

[/quote]Content of the standard version tablets
[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Epic_of_Gilgamesh&action=edit&section=5)] Tablet one

The story starts with the introduction of Gilgamesh, king of Uruk (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uruk). Gilgamesh, two-thirds god and one-third man, oppresses the city's citizens who cry out to the gods for help. For the young women of Uruk this oppression takes the form of a droit de seigneur (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droit_de_seigneur) — or "lord's right" — to newly married brides on their wedding night. For the young men it is conjectured that Gilgamesh exhausted them through games, tests of strength, or perhaps forced labour on building projects. The gods respond to the citizens' plea for intervention by creating an equal to Gilgamesh who will distract him from these objectionable activities. They create a primitive man, Enkidu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enkidu), who is covered in hair and lives in the wild with the animals. He is spotted by a trapper, as he has been uprooting traps and thus ruining the trapper's livelihood. The trapper tells Gilgamesh of the man and seduces Enkidu with a skilled harlot. His seduction by Shamhat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shamhat), a temple prostitute, is the first step in his civilization, and she proposes to take him back to Uruk after making love for seven days. Gilgamesh, meanwhile, has been having dreams that relate to the imminent arrival of a new companion.
[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Epic_of_Gilgamesh&action=edit&section=6)] Tablet two

Shamhat brings Enkidu to the shepherds' camp where he is introduced to a human diet and becomes the camp's night watchman. Learning from a passing stranger about Gilgamesh's treatment of new brides, Enkidu is incensed and travels to Uruk to intervene at a wedding. When Gilgamesh attempts to visit the wedding chamber, Enkidu blocks his way and they fight. After a fierce battle, Enkidu acknowledges Gilgamesh's superior strength and they become friends. Gilgamesh proposes that they journey together to the Cedar Forest to slay the monstrous demi-god Humbaba (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humbaba), in order to gain fame and renown. Despite warnings from both Enkidu and the council of elders, Gilgamesh will not be deterred.
[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Epic_of_Gilgamesh&action=edit&section=7)] Tablet three

The elders give Gilgamesh advice for his journey. Gilgamesh visits his mother, the goddess Ninsun (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninsun), who seeks the support and protection of the sun-god Shamash (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shamash) for the two adventurers. Ninsun adopts Enkidu as her son, Gilgamesh leaves instructions for governing Uruk in his absence, and they embark on their quest.
[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Epic_of_Gilgamesh&action=edit&section=8)] Tablet four

Gilgamesh and Enkidu journey to the Cedar Forest (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cedar_Forest). Every few days they make camp on a hill or mountain to perform a dream ritual. Gilgamesh has five terrifying dreams that involve falling mountains, thunderstorms, wild bulls, and a thunderbird that breathes fire. Despite similarities between the dream figures and earlier descriptions of Humbaba, Enkidu interprets all of the dreams as good omens, denying that any of the frightening images represent the forest guardian. As they approach the cedar mountain, they hear Humbaba bellowing and have to encourage each other not to be afraid.
[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Epic_of_Gilgamesh&action=edit&section=9)] Tablet five

The heroes enter the cedar forest and their fears return. Humbaba (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humbaba), the ogre-guardian of the Cedar Forest, insults and threatens them. He accuses Enkidu of betrayal, then vows to disembowel Gilgamesh and feed his flesh to the birds. Gilgamesh is afraid, but with some encouraging words from Enkidu the battle commences. The mountains quake with the tumult and the sky turns black. The god Shamash (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shamash) sends his 13 winds to bind Humbaba and he is captured. The monster pleads for his life, and Gilgamesh pities him. Enkidu, however, is enraged and asks Gilgamesh to kill the beast. Humbaba curses them both and Gilgamesh dispatches him with a blow to the neck. The two heroes cut down many cedars, including a gigantic tree that Enkidu plans to fashion into a gate for the temple of Enlil. They build a raft and return home along the Euphrates with the giant tree and the head of Humbaba.
[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Epic_of_Gilgamesh&action=edit&section=10)] Tablet six

Gilgamesh rejects the advances of the goddess Ishtar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ishtar) because of her mistreatment of previous lovers like Dumuzi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tammuz_(deity)). Ishtar asks her father Anu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anu) to send Gugalanna (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gugalanna) the "Bull of Heaven (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bull_(mythology))" to avenge her. When Anu rejects her complaints, Ishtar threatens to raise the dead who will "outnumber the living" and "devour them". Anu becomes frightened and gives in. The bull of heaven is led to Uruk by Ishtar, and causes widespread devastation. It dries up the reed beds and marshes, then dramatically lowers the level of the Euphrates river. It opens up huge pits in the ground that swallow 300 men. Enkidu and Gilgamesh attack and slay the beast without any divine assistance and offer up its heart to Shamash. When Ishtar cries out in agony, Enkidu hurls one of the bull's hindquarters at her. The city of Uruk celebrates, but Enkidu has an ominous dream.
[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Epic_of_Gilgamesh&action=edit&section=11)] Tablet seven

In Enkidu's dream, the gods decide that one of the heroes must die for slaying the Bull of Heaven and Humbaba. Despite the protestations of Shamash, Enkidu is marked for death. Enkidu considers the great door he fashioned for Enlil's temple, and curses it. He also curses Shamhat and the trapper for removing him from the wild. Then Shamash speaks from heaven, reminding Enkidu of how Shamhat fed and clothed him, and introduced him to Gilgamesh. Gilgamesh will bestow great honors upon him at his funeral, and will later wander the wild consumed with grief. Enkidu regrets his curses and blesses Shamhat, temporarily calmed. In a second dream, however, he sees himself being taken captive to the Netherworld by a terrifying Angel of Death. The underworld is a "house of dust" and darkness whose inhabitants eat clay and are clothed in bird feathers, supervised by terrifying beings. For twelve days, Enkidu's condition worsens. Finally, after a last lament that he could not meet a heroic death in battle, he dies.
[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Epic_of_Gilgamesh&action=edit&section=12)] Tablet eight

Gilgamesh delivers a long lamentation for Enkidu, in which he calls upon forests, mountains, fields, rivers, wild animals, and all of Uruk to mourn for his friend. Recalling their adventures together, Gilgamesh tears at his hair and clothes in grief. He commissions a funerary statue and provides valuable grave gifts from his treasury to ensure a favourable reception for Enkidu in the realm of the dead. A great banquet is held where the treasures are ceremonially offered to the gods of the Netherworld. There is a possible reference to the damming of a river before the text breaks off, which might suggest a riverbed burial as in the corresponding Sumerian poem, The Death of Gilgamesh.
[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Epic_of_Gilgamesh&action=edit&section=13)] Tablet nine

Tablet nine opens with Gilgamesh grieving for Enkidu and roaming the wild clothed in animal skins. Fearful of his own death, his object is to find the legendary Utnapishtim (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utnapishtim) ("the Faraway"), and learn the secret of eternal life. Among the few survivors of the Great Flood (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deluge_(mythology)), Utnapishtim and his wife are the only humans to have been granted immortality by the gods. Early in his travels, Gilgamesh crosses a mountain pass at night and encounters a pride of lions. He prays for protection to the moon god Sin before sleeping. Then, waking from an encouraging dream, he slays the lions and takes their skins for clothing. Eventually, after a long and perilous journey, Gilgamesh comes to the twin peaks of Mount Mashu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mashu) at the ends of the earth. The entrance, which no man has ever crossed, is guarded by two terrible scorpion-men. After questioning him and recognising his semi-divine nature, they allow Gilgamesh to pass and travel through the mountains along the Road of the Sun. He follows it for twelve "double hours" in complete darkness. Managing to complete the trip before the sun catches up to him, Gilgamesh arrives in a garden paradise full of jewel-laden trees.
[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Epic_of_Gilgamesh&action=edit&section=14)] Tablet ten

Gilgamesh meets the alewife Siduri (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siduri), who first believes Gilgamesh is a murderer from his dishevelled appearance, and tells her the purpose of his journey. Siduri attempts to dissuade him from his quest but sends him to Urshanabi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urshanabi), the ferryman, to help him cross the sea to Utnapishtim. Urshanabi is in the company of stone-giants. Gilgamesh considers them hostile and kills them. When he tells Urshanabi his story and asks for help, he is told that he just killed the only creatures able to cross the Waters of Death. The Waters of Death or Hubur (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubur), analogous to the River Styx (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Styx) of Greek mythology, are deadly to the touch, so Urshanabi asks him to cut 300 trees and fashion them into punting poles. Finally, they reach the island of Utnapishtim. Utnapishtim sees that there is someone else in the boat and asks Gilgamesh who he is. Gilgamesh tells him his story and asks for help, but Utnapishtim reprimands him because fighting the common fate of humans is futile and diminishes life's joys.
[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Epic_of_Gilgamesh&action=edit&section=15)] Tablet eleven

Gilgamesh observes that Utnapishtim seems no different from himself, and asks him how he obtained immortality. Utnapishtim tells an ancient story of how the the gods decide to send a great flood. The god Ea, however, warns him to build a boat and save himself. Precise dimensions are given, and it is sealed with pitch and bitumen. Utnapishtim's family go aboard, along with his craftsmen and 'all the animals of the field'. Next, a violent storm arises that causes the terrified gods to retreat to the heavens. Ishtar laments the wholesale destruction of humanity and the other gods weep beside her. The storm lasts six days and seven nights, after which 'all the human beings [have] turned to clay'. Utnapishtim, looking out, also weeps in response to the overwhelming destruction. The boat lodges on a mountain and, after seven more days, he releases a dove, a swallow, and a raven. When the latter fails to return, he opens the ark and releases its inhabitants. Utnapishtim offers sacrifice to the gods who smell the sweet savor and gather around. Belitili vows that, just as she will never forget the brilliant necklace that hangs around her neck, she will always remember this time. After she condemns the chief god Enlil for instigating the flood without thinking, he suddenly arrives, angry that anyone has survived. Then Ea speaks up and castigates him for sending a disproportionate punishment. Enlil, apparently contrite, blesses Utnapishtim and his wife, and rewards them with eternal life. This story is based on the flood myth that concludes the Epic of Atrahasis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atrahasis) (see also Gilgamesh flood myth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilgamesh_flood_myth)).
The main point seems to be that Utnapishtim was granted eternal life in unique, never to be repeated circumstances. As if to demonstrate this point, Utnapishtim challenges Gilgamesh to stay awake for six days and seven nights. However, as soon as Utnapishtim finishes speaking Gilgamesh falls asleep. Utnapishtim instructs his wife to bake a loaf of bread for every day he is asleep so that Gilgamesh cannot deny his failure. Gilgamesh, who wants to overcome death, cannot even conquer sleep! After instructing his ferryman to wash Gilgamesh and clothe him in royal robes, Utnapishtim sends the pair back to Uruk.
As they are leaving, Utnapishtim's wife asks her husband to offer a parting gift. Utnapishtim tells Gilgamesh of a boxthorn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxthorn)-like plant at the very bottom of the ocean that will make him young again. Gilgamesh obtains the plant by binding stones to his feet so he can walk on the bottom of the sea. He recovers the plant and plans to test it on an old man when he returns to Uruk. Unfortunately, when Gilgamesh stops to bathe it is stolen by a serpent (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serpent_(symbolism)) that sheds its skin as it departs. Gilgamesh weeps at the futility of his efforts, having now lost all chance of immortality. He then returns to Uruk, where the sight of its massive walls prompts him to praise this enduring work to Urshanabi.
[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Epic_of_Gilgamesh&action=edit&section=16)] Tablet twelve

This tablet is to a large extent an Akkadian translation of an earlier Sumerian poem, Gilgamesh and the Netherworld (also known as "Gilgamesh, Enkidu, and the Netherworld" and variants), although it has been suggested that it is based on an unknown version of that story.<SUP id=cite_ref-Dalley_1-4 class=reference>[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic_of_Gilgamesh#cite_note-Dalley-1)</SUP><SUP style="WHITE-SPACE: nowrap" class=reference>:42</SUP> The contents of this last tablet are inconsistent with previous ones: Enkidu is still alive, despite having been killed off earlier in the epic. Because of this, its lack of integration with the other tablets, and the fact that it is almost a copy of an earlier version, it has been referred to as an 'inorganic appendage' to the epic.<SUP id=cite_ref-6 class=reference>[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic_of_Gilgamesh#cite_note-6)</SUP> Alternatively, it has been suggested that "its purpose, though crudely handled, is to explain to Gil-gamesh (and the reader) the various fates of the dead in the Afterlife" as "an awkward attempt to bring closure",<SUP id=cite_ref-7 class=reference>[8] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic_of_Gilgamesh#cite_note-7)</SUP> a connection between the Gilgamesh in the epic and the Gilgamesh as King of the Netherworld in Mesopotamian religion,<SUP id=cite_ref-8 class=reference>[9] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic_of_Gilgamesh#cite_note-8)</SUP> or even "a dramatic capstone whereby the twelve-tablet epic ends on one and the same theme, that of "seeing" (= understanding, discovery, etc.), with which it began."<SUP id=cite_ref-9 class=reference>[10] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic_of_Gilgamesh#cite_note-9)</SUP>
Gilgamesh complains to Enkidu that various objects he possessed (the tablet is unclear exactly what — different translations include a drum and a ball) fell into the underworld. Enkidu offers to bring them back. Delighted, Gilgamesh tells Enkidu what he must and must not do in the underworld in order to come back. Enkidu does everything he was told not to do. The underworld keeps him. Gilgamesh prays to the gods to give him his friend back. Enlil (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enlil) and Suen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suen) don’t bother to reply but Ea (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enki) and Shamash (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shamash) decide to help. Shamash cracks a hole in the earth and Enkidu's ghost jumps out of it. The tablet ends with Gilgamesh questioning Enkidu about what he has seen in the underworld.[/quote]

Epic of Gilgamesh Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic_of_Gilgamesh)

bujhee kom
July 6, 2011, 02:51 PM
Dear Admin, Mod bhais, and Boss, Dr. Zed,

Please kindly delete my bad post...the post #3...I can't delete it no more as it is too late...the delete button's gone....please forgive me, forgive me all the bhais and apus here in BC, forgive me my dearest Gopal! Please all my dear younger apus and bhais, do not learn anything bad from me, filter out the bad, and remember only the good. Please remember Manush matroi Bhool. Bhool korey felechi, ekon onushochona hocche, maaf korey den please, seriously bhais.

July 6, 2011, 03:48 PM
Dear Admin, Mod bhais, and Boss, Dr. Zed,

Please kindly delete my bad post...the post #3...I can't delete it no more as it is too late...the delete button's gone....please forgive me, forgive me all the bhais and apus here in BC, forgive me my dearest Gopal! Please all my dear younger apus and bhais, do not learn anything bad from me, filter out the bad, and remember only the good. Please remember Manush matroi Bhool. Bhool korey felechi, ekon onushochona hocche, maaf korey den please, seriously bhais.

Dude...don't sweat. I was just having a bad spell. That's all. I might once in a while come with acerbic retorts but that's only for verbal sparring and not holding any grudge or anything personal against anyone. :)