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fwullah
February 24, 2004, 04:15 AM
hi guys, I was unable to get in for a computer glitch, so could not post my opinion on certain things. I have tried to point out those things in the following.

1. Most of today's papers say that during Bangladesh's 1st innings, Ashraful hit a six which actually the umpires called to be a four. The papers said that if Ashraful had those six runs instead of four, then he would have scored his 2nd test century by now. Take my word, it was too difficult a task for human eye to say if it was a four or a six even though there was the help of tv replays to help the human-eye. So, be aware of this little over-reaction from the print media.

2. Mushfique's out was not really that bad, although there were doubts about his nicking the ball during Bangladesh's 2nd innings, being the third vicitm of the hat-trick by Blignaut; there was no way to tell from the existing technologies used as to whether he had really nicked the ball or not. The only decision had to be made by an umpire was whether the batsman would get the 'benefit of the doubt' or not, and in the judgment of the umpire, he did not deserve a benefit of the doubt decision, and so he was out.

3. Shahriar's lbw decision in the 2nd innings of Bangladesh was probably a bad one, but Hannan Sarkar's lbw decision was not a bad one as some papers suggest.

4. At last, but not the least, I would like you to collect, if you find any piece, of Ashraful's mini interview to ESPN on the morning of the Day 4. I was practically laughing for around 2 to 3 hours after hearing the interview. Ofcourse, at the end of the day (Day 4), the interview sounds like a really horrible joke by Ashraful, after his golden duck, but at that moment, his words were really good to hear, and I enjoyed that bit very much. One of the words that he said at the end of the interview was that 'I think 98 better than 0'. He was speaking to Robin Jackman (as far as I can remember now), a very good speaker of English, and Ashraful was speaking English like using the English words without the use of 'is' or 'are' or 'am'.

rafiq
February 24, 2004, 12:11 PM
it doesn't matter how good or bad Ashraful's english is - he needs to do his bat do the talking in the second test.

Optimist
February 24, 2004, 01:03 PM
I would love to see a day when a Bngladeshi cricketer will decline to give an interview unless the interviewer speaks bengali or he is provided with an interpreter (It would be great if he could ask this in fluent English). It really should not matter whether he can speak English or not.

Ahmed_B
February 24, 2004, 01:06 PM
hi everyone..!

about fw's points :

1. about ashraful's not getting century: its not realy the umpire to blame because even if he had corrected his mistakes frm tv replays.. ashraful perhaps udnt hav got his 100, coz in my opinion he was out because of his nervousness at 98 & not for anyother reason.. and with that 6 he also ud be nervous at 98!!

2. about mushfik's out: it was realy difficult for the umpire to tell but its probably time tht a law comes in cricket about correcting umpire's mistakes frm tv replays even if he doesnt ask for the 3rd umpire!

3. no coments! point 2 can be repeated!

4. many of our players r horrible in english, but more thn tht they never talk professionally! the worst part is wht they mean whn they talk to the media (which is obviously funny sometimes!).. not how bad their english is! they shud hav som instructions about how to face the media!!

[Edited on 24-2-2004 by crickethorizon]

Rubu
February 24, 2004, 01:08 PM
I still remember the ind pak match at dhaka when rasid latif after winning, could'nt speak in english and started to speak urdu. we all were laughing at that for quite a while, thinking it was really stupid. now, ash's english won't sound bad to us, he is our little wonder. but to other people it does. when he speaks, he represents our country. its not a bad idea that, he doesn't make other laugh. but, of course performing is away ahead of it. baut again, if he doesn't perform, he won't have a chance to speak. u get the point.

Beamer
February 24, 2004, 02:01 PM
Speaking or not speaking English should have no baring whatsoever. Why should we concern ourselves of what the outside world think of us whether a cricket player speaks english fluently or not? Its quite irrelevant. If he does, more power to him. I don't see any foreign interviewer asking questions in Bengali?

pagol-chagol
February 24, 2004, 02:03 PM
Hey dude! Thanks to Lord Clive. If they didn't rule us for 190 years you wouldn't be speaking this master's language. When Bengalis feel ashamed of other Bengalis for speaking grammatically incorrect English I wonder whose approval they are seeking.

--I really liked crickethorizon's point on "He would still be out at 98." Not because he would be. But its real meaning.

Rubu
February 24, 2004, 03:30 PM
looks like the persional opinion turned into engish opinion. i see all your points, and ofcourse respect that. in fact agree with most part. still, i'd like to point out some more things that i think is relavent. tell me what u think.
we start to learn ka, kha, ga, gha and a, b, c, d in school at the same class. with equal emphasis. is it because of 200 years' loard language or because its an international language?
if we progress enough to give bangla the honor of an international language (someday we'll) we can speak bangla during interview. but until then, don't we need to make sure the world can understand what we have to say?
of course it will still be 98, and we need to improve their first (i mean the play), but the media also play a great role in terms of how the world look at a team. don't we need to impress the media? first we play good, and then talk good. u've to understand that the play is first. but after that won't it be good if we speak well too?

pagol-chagol
February 24, 2004, 05:17 PM
Originally posted by AgentSmith
we start to learn ka, kha, ga, gha and a, b, c, d in school at the same class. with equal emphasis. is it because of 200 years' loard language or because its an international language?
if we progress enough to give bangla the honor of an international language (someday we'll) we can speak bangla during interview. but until then, don't we need to make sure the world can understand what we have to say?


Appreciate the Socratic questions.

More than 99.99% Bangladeshis do not get equal emphasis on Bangla and English at any point during their early lives. All classes are taught in Bangla - may be a few English teachers lecture in English in some of the top schools. (I am not talking about the few English medium elite's schools here). I am really baffled by your argument: equal opportunity of learning Bangla and English.

Why should we be ashamed of another Bangali's inability to speak proper English? Some of us had the opportunity to get westernized education that only 0.01% of our fellow compatriots had. Now, imagine if the Chinese were as aggressive as the Japanese. They would have ruled us instead of England. What would we be speaking now. Our master's language - CHINESE. Right?

How will Bangla "PROGRESS TO GET THE HONOR"? Its too late to progress to get that "honor". We needed to have some aggressive opportunistic vicious ruthless warlord ancestors for that.

The English speaking world had no problem understanding what Ashraful meant. If he can't speak and gets an interpreter, we have nothing to be ashamed about that either. Countless Americans who take years of Spanish courses and grow up with Spanish kids in their neighborhood, do not speak Spanish any better than Ashraful speaks English. You need to hear Chinese NBA Basketball player Yao Ming. Neither him nor his 1 billion countrymen feel ashamed about his interviews. I wonder, if thats because Chinese is 1 of 6 "UN recognized" international languages? I doubt it.

Crickethorizon, imagine you were wrong and Ashraful reached 100. He could have gone all the way to 199. And then he would have peed on his pants. Would you be proud of the 199 then? :lol:

adnan
February 24, 2004, 05:32 PM
Robin jackman who speaks very good english, came for an Interview with Ash who speaks horrible english. Some points to review.

1. Robin speaks only good english, no Bangla. Ash speaks excellent Bangla, little English too. Who seems to be better? Ans: Ash.

2. Who hit the dashing 98? Robin or Ash? Ans: Ash.

3.Who asked for the interview? Robin or Ash? Ans: Robin, cause its his job.

What I want to say is that Robin should say sorry cause he works for his job and he must know others language. Ash doesnt need to learn english, cause he can smash huge sixes and boundaries.

Its a pity to read when somebody criticises one's ability of speaking where it is not applicable.




I enjoyed that bit very much. One of the words that he said at the end of the interview was that 'I think 98 better than 0'. He was speaking to Robin Jackman (as far as I can remember now), a very good speaker of English, and Ashraful was speaking English like using the English words without the use of 'is' or 'are' or 'am'.

Rubu
February 24, 2004, 05:44 PM
hay pagol-chagol, i never said we should be ashamed of not speaking english? but why u don't understand that its much better if we can. see most of my writing on this topic based on one insident. as i mentioned above, the ind v pak match. i was watching in a club with many other people, and the whole club started to laugh when rasid latif started to speak urdu. i really don't want same situation for our team. i really don't like others laugh at us. and when we did (not a single person but a room full of people) that, looks like other would too. i just don't want that.

AsifTheManRahman
February 24, 2004, 11:19 PM
What's the big fuss about speaking English? Who cares? The english speaking ppl know it's our secong language...

fwullah
February 24, 2004, 11:47 PM
Oh ****! Apnader mone hoy shobar matha gorom hoye ache.

When I wrote the number 4 point, I didn't mean to say that I was laughing at a funny thing happened - Ashraful not being able to speak in proper English, nor did I want anybody to be ashamed of not speaking in English; my point was that it was a good feeling that I wanted to share with those people with whom I could not share earlier for my unavailability, and with those people who do not have the opportunity to watch the game live or watch the interview live or in recording.

No offense to anyone, including Ashraful himself.

Carte Blanche
February 25, 2004, 12:58 AM
Its funny reading "Robin Jackman speaks good english". He is a god-damn pommie!!

Ahmed_B
February 25, 2004, 09:44 AM
Originally posted by pagol-chagol
Crickethorizon, imagine you were wrong and Ashraful reached 100. He could have gone all the way to 199. And then he would have peed on his pants. Would you be proud of the 199 then? :lol:

.. wht exactly is ur point? probably u r getting everything wrong in this pole. coz we r discussing if the umpire's decision of calling a 4 which was actually 6 has anything to do with ashraful's not getting a century or not!.. n u r asking me a question i don clearly undearstand (to speak frankly!!)
and u hav already turned the piont of a weak interview (not for bad english but for immatured thinx to say to the media like: 98 is better than 0!) by our young cricketer into something of international language-ego!
u betta try to clear ur concepts b4 u post ur replies pls.. thanx.

bhobishshot
February 25, 2004, 10:14 AM
Originally posted by AgentSmith
hay pagol-chagol, i never said we should be ashamed of not speaking english? but why u don't understand that its much better if we can. see most of my writing on this topic based on one insident. as i mentioned above, the ind v pak match. i was watching in a club with many other people, and the whole club started to laugh when rasid latif started to speak urdu. i really don't want same situation for our team. i really don't like others laugh at us. and when we did (not a single person but a room full of people) that, looks like other would too. i just don't want that.

AgentSmith,

Before I say anything, I want to point out that I am not in favour of Rashid speaking urdu.

Having said that, if I were in your situation, I would ask the people in the room why they were lauging, and I don't think they will be able to come up with a satisfactory answer.

[Edited on 25-2-2004 by bhobishshot]

CricFan
February 25, 2004, 12:31 PM
Does it really matter if our players can speak English or no? I think it only matters when they can not perform well enough. The whole cricket world is looking at us everytime we are playing international games and they are always predicting the outcomes and so far they were right. We need to win and that will give us the respect, not the proper English.
:flag:

crazyisland
February 25, 2004, 12:59 PM
When "Speaking good English" has anything to do with playing cricket?
English is not our first language - Bangla is.

If we don't respect or not proud of our own culture, language, identity - trust me - no one will genuinely respect us either.

pagol-chagol
February 25, 2004, 03:03 PM
Originally posted by crickethorizon
Originally posted by pagol-chagol
Crickethorizon, imagine you were wrong and Ashraful reached 100. He could have gone all the way to 199. And then he would have peed on his pants. Would you be proud of the 199 then? :lol:

.. wht exactly is ur point? probably u r getting everything wrong in this pole. coz we r discussing if the umpire's decision of calling a 4 which was actually 6 has anything to do with ashraful's not getting a century or not!.. n u r asking me a question i don clearly undearstand (to speak frankly!!)
and u hav already turned the piont of a weak interview (not for bad english but for immatured thinx to say to the media like: 98 is better than 0!) by our young cricketer into something of international language-ego!
u betta try to clear ur concepts b4 u post ur replies pls.. thanx.

Crickethorizon’s arguments and the joke:

1. Explanation of Joke: If the umpire had given him a six he would have reached 100 at that point, right? Then, he wouldn’t have been nervous and continued on his innings (hopefully) right? I appreciated your joke where you said that he would still have been out at 98 (just a little bit earlier) – which I thought was pretty funny and imaginative. My joke was (with a lot of fantasy added to it) about what if he had continued and reached 199. How nervous would he have been? Sorry for throwing a complicated one.

2. Fwullah stated 4 points. The first 3 were valid and I have no argument with those. The 4th point was clearly about Ashraful’s inability to speak proper English and not about how weak it was. I vehemently disagree with that philosophy of Bengalis. We need to get rid of these sorts of inferior feelings. Our cricketers have this attitude too. That’s why they shake under pressure. You are starting a new point “weak interview”. If you read Fwullah’s comments till the end you’ll clearly understand that she was talking about bad English and not weak interview. Therefore, your argument “turned the point of weak interview” has no validity.

3. Asharaful’s comment “98 better than 0” is does not make it a weak interview. It can easily be interpreted as a joke which he was making on himself for scoring 0 in the second innings. It can be taken at its literal value. It can be taken in a bad way like he was criticizing Shumon ( which he was not, I guess I need to clarify this). I haven’t heard Ashraful’s interview but from what Fwullah wrote it seems like she is only concerned about his English.

4. There is no International Language Ego here. Its about not to be ashamed about foreign language proficiency.


Bhobishshot, you are right. There is no intelligent answer to that.

[Edited on 25-2-2004 by pagol-chagol]