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View Full Version : To all McInnes' Critics


Orpheus
March 4, 2004, 06:17 AM
What do you have to say for yourself? The man answered you!

It was sheer bad luck that we didn't advance to the super league. Blaming it on the coach was premature.

chinaman
March 4, 2004, 06:37 AM
Yes, he did to some good extent. And fitness proved to be more vital than some predicted.

Congratulation to BD u-19 team, their Coaches and trainers.

fwullah
March 4, 2004, 06:41 AM
I was telling the other day on one of the threads that we could not beat a test playing nation alright, but we were able to beat all the ICC Associate minnow teams that we were supposed to beat - after the semi final win against Scotland

chinaman
March 4, 2004, 06:43 AM
That is now history. We beat a test playing nation who happens to be the defending World Chanpion in the category.

Hasib
March 4, 2004, 07:41 AM
what is more, this match shows McInnes's loyety to his job. He didn't give up the thought of winning, even though it was against his own country.

FaltuRidwanBhai
March 4, 2004, 07:47 AM
dannabad,
etai kintu akhon ashol coach ar kortobbo. ebong McInnes kintu shai dayitto khub bhalo moton palon korechen. koti manusher pokkho theke take shubechha. Thank you Under 19 Coach of Bangladesh. It is a great pleasure for us to have you as our coach. I do not know if you will be reading my comments here but as you sometimes come here thats why I am writing towards you. Hope you will bring us more success in the future. Thank You.

Navarene
March 4, 2004, 08:11 AM
As long as critiques are substantial and well-constructed, it is alright.

Well done Richard and our boys!

SS
March 4, 2004, 08:15 AM
congrats to this amazing win
congrats to players and coaches.
But remember the team sholuld not just relax and become emotional...all they have to do is to keep uo the hard work.
thanks for their bravery

FaltuRidwanBhai
March 4, 2004, 08:19 AM
SS bhai,
apni kintu amar moner kothatai bolechen. je 1999 ar bishhokaper por aita kintu ashole hoyechilo bangladesh jatiyo doler shathe. amra kintu taderke mathay tule rekhechilam. jar fole tara ar porisrom kore nai ebong jar jonno ajke amader ai dosha. anondo oboshhoi korbo. eta oboshhoi akta anonder shomoy. kintu bhule gele cholbe na. je poth kintu shesh hoye jai nee. aro onek dur jete hobe. amra shudhu akti dhap par holam. dannabad.

Warlock
March 4, 2004, 08:57 AM
Before the final a newspaper reporter asked McInnes how he felt about competing against his own country in the plate final- where did his loyalties lay? He answered- "I don't feel like an Australian now, I feel like one of you. Right at this moment BANGLADESH is my country!" (I did the translation from Bangla- so please read the Bangla newspaper for the authentic version).
I for one liked McInnes' comments!

FaltuRidwanBhai
March 4, 2004, 09:21 AM
jaihok,
ami bolbo je McInnes ar jonno kintu tokhon akta khubi kothin shomoy chilo. je she nijer deshke support korbe naki tar dayitto palon korbe. jaihok McInnes tini kintu tar dayitto palon korechen. etai kintu akjon ashol coach ar kortobbo. tobe akta kotha na bollai kintu noi je ajke amra jodi australiar ar kach jodi porajito hotam tahole kintu McInnes ar kotha amra bishhash kortam na. ashole korata khub kothin hoto. kintu akta kotha bolte chai je khelata kintu ashole mainly khelowarder upori beshi nirbhorshil. shutorang even if McInnes wanted Bangladesh to win, the result would have actually depended on our players and not what he wants or does not want. shutorang ami bolbe je bhobishhote kono coach shommondhe kichu bolar age amader akbar bhebe dekha uchit. dannabad.

rafiq
March 4, 2004, 10:23 AM
Perhaps one of the moderators can email the coach and ask him to post his thoughts on the game/tournament/etc.

chinaman
March 4, 2004, 10:25 AM
Not a bad idea. Dr. Z?

Piranha
March 4, 2004, 11:14 AM
Awesome! We Won!! Hooray ! brilliant! (I just read the score )

Congratulations to our players and coach. All of you did a fantastic job. I am proud of our team!:):fanflag:

Zobair
March 4, 2004, 11:32 AM
Having said that we (subcontinental) fans sometimes do have the tendency to go overboard with our criticisms just as we go overboard with our praise.

Unfortunately some of the criticisms on this board before, regarding the coach, went beyond good reason, and bordered on personal attacks. Nevertheless some of the criticism was constructive and very useful, which the coach duly acknowledged.

McInnes, in my opinion, has done a fantastic job developing our young cricketers, and like I said before, I have faith in him to continue the good work. The work is just started. These U19s are far from the finished product. We need them real sharp and battlehardened before they enter the senior level to get the best out of them. Meanwhile lets savour this moment.

Thank you U19 players, Thank you Richard McInnes.

:flag:

FaltuRidwanBhai
March 4, 2004, 11:41 AM
pompous bhai,
apni kintu chomotkar bolechen. amaro kintu jemon McInnes ar upor astha ache temni kintu whatmore ar uporo astha ache. shobaike aktu dhorjo dhorte hobe. ar aktu shomoi dite hobe. tahole kintu aro shafollo ashbe. kintu amader shomoshha hochhe amra onekai odhoirjo. jar karone amra ottaddhik criticism kore feli. asha kori bhobishhote amra erokom bhul korbo na. keboli kintu jatra shuru holo. akhoni odhoirjo hole cholbe na. aro onek chorai utrai pari dite hobe amaderke jarpor amra niyomito shafollo pete thakbo. tobe akhon kintu chotoderke aro porisrom korte hobe. tara jodi mone koren shob shesh hoye geche. ar kichu korar nai. tahole kintu hobe na. kebol kintu akta dhap par holo tara. aro onek dhap roye geche pari debar. dannabad.

Mahmood
March 4, 2004, 11:51 AM
I will still take stand against McInnes. This final proved, we are much better batting first and falter when chasing.

He should have gone for batting when BD won the toss against India.

I not happy to win the 2nd class plate championship. However, I am very happy to beat Australia.

Let us hope McInnes will learn from his mistake and BD-19 player will continue to improve.

Sham
March 4, 2004, 12:05 PM
is that all this is part of a process. McInnes has only been around for a few short months. Those of you who have been overly critical of him have been premature in your judgement. And at the same time, we will make a big mistake if we overturn our concerns based on this one match. The point is, this team has a long way to go. Even in this match, the lower middle order failed to cash in on the top order's brilliant start. But today, we'll just celebrate and not think about these things too much. The point is, we have to commit ourselves to the process (even as fans) and not judge based on individual matches, regardless of whether they are wins or losses. Think about it, if we had won that close one against NZ, the India match wouldn't be significant and NRRs would never come into question. And McInnes would have been our idol. Pompous is right, we are way too quick to judge. Yet, Pomp, you are committing the crime you are charging everyone else with, going a little overboard with the praise perhaps?

Anyway, congratulations to McInnes and his team. This will silence a few critics and hopefully take the heat off McInnes a little bit so he can concentrate on the coaching. Good luck to him.

Zobair
March 4, 2004, 12:22 PM
I was hoping you wouldn't notice :P The truth is I can't help sympathising with the "underdog"...after that failure against NZ, and whole NRR issue, and the criticism that McInnes came under...I felt for the poor guy! It was not as if he was deliberately making mistakes, and I was convinced that the team had improved under him more than it showed in the first few matches, and it was only a matter of time before all the hardwork he and the boys had put in would show through. This Australia match just kind of made me feel vindicated :) But I did say, and say now too, that work is not done yet, and the players are far from the finished product. I was refering to exactly what you were referring to: The middle and late order "collapse". Ideally we should have close in on 300. But to hold on the nerves like our boys did against the Aussies, was just awesome. In fact I would say we won the battle of the nerves. They cracked under pressure. WE didn't. The three run outs are testament to that. AN excellent effort!

The norm seems to be: criticise the coach if the team loses, and praise the team when it wins. Lets be fair. Criticise both when the team does below par and praise both when the team performs well.


Pompous is right, we are way too quick to judge. Yet, Pomp, you are committing the crime you are charging everyone else with, going a little overboard with the praise perhaps?




[Edited on 4-3-2004 by pompous]

Beamer
March 4, 2004, 12:27 PM
I think there have been some significant improvement in fielding, bowling, mental and physical toughness under McIness's tutelage in a short span of time. Thats all you can ask a under-19 coach to do, to train the future generation with those basics or fundamentals. Soon they will move up to different ranks and he will have to work with new youngsters. It is sort of like the minor league in baseball. Its thankless. It is not that wise to judge him by wins and losses but to see whether he can instill the fundamentals in the young minds. However, victory is always good for team morale and confidences are gained because of that. Our senior team is shell shocked now for the lack of success. In five or six years time, if the players that came up from the under-19 ranks of today can serve the country effectively from the lessons learnt now, only then we can look back and say Richard McIness has done his job.

Sami
March 4, 2004, 12:32 PM
it wud be funny if McInnes decides now to quit... that will be a slap on everyone's face. the ppl who were shouting against him... and McInnes walks out as a winner... hats off to u coach... u deserve it... And my best wishes for u.

Pundit
March 4, 2004, 12:44 PM
First, congratulations to the team, and the coach !

To the team, especially for making up for the failure against India and NZ.

To the coach, especially for being able to answer back successfully to the good for nothing critics. Let this be a lesson to all who no of nothing but to whine and whine and whine....

Now, where to from here ? Besides the feat of being able to win something worthwhile for a change, what have we gained ? I don't know ? Do we know that Nafis will not turn out to be another Ashraful ? Besides Nafis, Enamul & Talha, who else has potential, no not to make his way into the senior team, but to then be able to contribute regularly and adequately ?? Big questions still ??

And we really need to be able to get Talha ready as needed for Tests. Taposh had a good series against Zimbabwe. That probably amounts to nothing ! We need to have the likes of Rafiq, Masri, Talha, Enam, Rana, play side by side. We need to be able to distribute the load. Otherwise our fast bowlers get hurt, and our spinners become ineffective.

What about the batting ? I guess know one still has any clue ? Not even Whatmore. Otherwise we wouldn't be so desperate about playing Alok as an opener.

pagol-chagol
March 4, 2004, 03:23 PM
Originally posted by Beamer
I think there have been some significant improvement in fielding, bowling, mental and physical toughness under McIness's tutelage in a short span of time. Thats all you can ask a under-19 coach to do, to train the future generation with those basics or fundamentals. Soon they will move up to different ranks and he will have to work with new youngsters. It is sort of like the minor league in baseball. Its thankless. It is not that wise to judge him by wins and losses but to see whether he can instill the fundamentals in the young minds. However, victory is always good for team morale and confidences are gained because of that. Our senior team is shell shocked now for the lack of success. In five or six years time, if the players that came up from the under-19 ranks of today can serve the country effectively from the lessons learnt now, only then we can look back and say Richard McIness has done his job.

Awesome Beamer!

Although this is short this deserves to be in the front page. Its concise. Most people would write 2 pages to prove this point and still would have missed.:karate:

[Edited on 4-3-2004 by pagol-chagol]

Beamer
March 4, 2004, 03:41 PM
thanks for the compliments!

Rubu
March 4, 2004, 04:24 PM
even with being the plate champs, i can't be a fan of McInns and say he did a good job. we did win this plate b4 without McInns. what he was expected to do was place the team in super league for the first time. he failed to do that even though the team had the ability. if u check back the score board of the game one more time, u'll find that we got lucky to win this one. batsmen did a greate job (specially the openers) and that made all the differences. can't say that was McInns magic. on the other hand we'd play in the super league if we batted first against india. according to all the newspapers, it was McInngs decision alone. the bottom line is, i blame him for wasting the best chance bd had to play in the super league.

chinaman
March 4, 2004, 04:35 PM
Originally posted by AgentSmith
we did win this plate b4 without McInns

Really? When?

Tournament History (http://www.iccu19cricketworldcup.com/tourhistory.html)

Mahmood
March 4, 2004, 04:43 PM
We did. in 1988 Australia. Rokon was the start that year. We beat West Indies in the final.

The next time we lost to South Africa in the final.

The last time we lost to Nepal in Semifinal.

This time we won the plate for the second time.

The reason you dont see it there Chinaman, they are only listing the Cup winner, not the plate as it means nothing more than who was ranked 9.

paco
March 4, 2004, 04:45 PM
1998. We beat England in the group stages, but NZ squeezed thru on NRR (if I remember correctly, rain had something to do with it.) We beat Zim in the plate group and beat WI in the plate final.

2000 would've been the same story if we hadn't faced SA in the plate final. Needless to say, SA won the plate final.

Orpheus
March 4, 2004, 04:56 PM
u'll find that we got lucky to win this one. batsmen did a greate job (specially the openers) and that made all the differences. can't say that was McInns magic. on the other hand we'd play in the super league if we batted first against india. according to all the newspapers

This is total non-sense. Whatever games we lost was because of Mcinnes and whatever we won was due to luck ... U serious???

If we had batted against India first, we would've been in the super league??? Are you Ok? We have to WIN first!

and please don't tell me that you are basing your emotions on some whimsical logic!

chinaman
March 4, 2004, 05:15 PM
Wow, I didn't know that! Probably because I had to divorce cricket at the end of 87-88 season. Anyway, that's a wonderful news to me.

tnb
March 4, 2004, 05:25 PM
"ki hoile ki hoito" thinking like that is utter nonsense to me. yap, i cannot hide disappointment and frustration when the team lost the game against india. but then when u calm down, u realize that the most important thing is whether we are learning or not. yesterday's game showed these boys did learn something, like, to keep it cool in the lase few overs. for me thats a huge bonus, specially when you look at the senior team and find that they are repeating the same mistakes again and again. Also, reading the news papers gave me the idea that the coach is also accomodating himself in the learning curve as far as handling the media is concerned. As long as everybody is making efforts in keeping the repeatation of mistakes to minimum, i am happy.

Congrats to the U19 team and the coach. After a long time staying up all night was sweet.

Zobair
March 4, 2004, 05:46 PM
tnb! you are DA MAN :) agree 100% with you on that.

Rubu
March 4, 2004, 06:28 PM
quete: "This is total non-sense. Whatever games we lost was because of Mcinnes and whatever we won was due to luck ... U serious???

If we had batted against India first, we would've been in the super league??? Are you Ok? We have to WIN first!

and please don't tell me that you are basing your emotions on some whimsical logic!"

i politely ask u to talk logic and give me the answer in logic. i see u used the word logics but didn't use logic. let me point that out first.
1) The use of word "whatever". if u read my post carefully enough u'll see that i talked about two specific matches. why did u generalized it. is it logical?

2) U don't agree with me that loose against india was not McInns fault. Knowing dhaka pitch, knowing indian team, above all knowing cricket give me one logical explaination of bowling first. mcinns killed the match then and there. (i've no way to know what reporters are saying is write or wrong. if it was not mcinns sole decision, forgive me, i quit, but thats what i learn from several sources. he did it on disagreement of every body else). we don't know what would happen if we batted first. but we'd have a better chance for sure.
3) look at all other matches. how far did our openers last? how much did they score. If our opening partnership against aus is not luck, but your superman's magic, why did the same team failed to do that so many times? what does 7:1 ratio tells u? also, the ending? how many times u'll get 3 run outs at a row? probably the first time in cricket history (at most 5 times this happend, i really don't know). u still wanna say thats not luck?

i guess i'm ok, at least i believe so. of course we had to win first. NOT LOOSE, thanks to mcinns.

Zobair
March 4, 2004, 06:46 PM
AgentSmith! I have to disagree with you on one particular count. Run outs have little to do with luck. In the scenario that we are talking about run outs are about pressure, pressure, pressure, good fielding and suicidal running (given the scenario Aussies had no option but to challenge the Bangladesh fielding). Except this time the BD U19 players were physically and mentaly up to the challenge. This in my opinion has little to do with luck and a lot to do with physical and mental prowess.

This debate is really pointless. This tournament is in the past, and the U19 needs to move on and build on their success and reflect on their shortcomings.

PS: Orpheus man! chill! take it easy.

acbizz
March 4, 2004, 07:10 PM
we won .. so what

we should have played in the super league...that was our target...
yeah you can say we beat Australia...

but don't forget they are also one of the team in this stupid league(plate)... idon't think this Aus-19 team is that good ...

our situation didnt change at all.... we didn't improve...


We could say we had a progress if we could play at the super league...

FaltuRidwanBhai
March 4, 2004, 07:14 PM
i dont think so,
we surely have improved and we did improved. we werent in the 2nd league is because it was just not our day when we played against newzealand. and in cricket that happens. sometimes it is just not your day and all the odds comes to your side. yesterday it was our day and we won. well we also actually played pretty well. yes ofcourse it would have been great if we were in the 2nd round. but ki ar kora. and this is the first time we are winning the plate championship. so maybe we havent improved as much as we expected but we did improve. dannabad.

Zobair
March 4, 2004, 07:20 PM
Faltu Bhai! we did win the plate before, but this is probably the first time we beat the current defending champions in the final to achieve it.

FaltuRidwanBhai
March 4, 2004, 07:23 PM
pompous bhai,
ami antorik bhabe dukkhito. amar kintu ashole jana chilo na. maf korben. tobe tobuo tar poro kintu ami bolbo je bangladesh improve koreche. karon defending championke harano oboshhoi akta boro bepar.

Faisal
March 5, 2004, 02:00 AM
hey guys, we just beat Australia under 19, keep it in ur mind, we didnt beat Australia, so dont get too excited, wee i would get more excited if we could beat Zim, lets see if we could beat them, then i would be proud... i dont think Australia under19 was a strong team, i heard they r not good enough, even they didnt play their club cricket, only 1 player came from Austrlia cricket Academy, so please be practical, lets hope bd will win atleast 1 onday Vs Zim, then we can cheer, thank you all.. Bangladesh zinnabad... long live bangladesh.

chinaman
March 5, 2004, 02:57 AM
Dear Faisal

Welcome to banglacricket.com. Hope you are enjoying it. By the way, you don't need to post the same message in two threads. Usually our members don't miss a thing. Cheers.

observer
March 6, 2004, 12:27 AM
An ealry summary:

I have not had time yet to put together a full review of the WC but here are a few preliminary thoughts.

My methodology of coaching is for players to be focussed on processes, not outcomes. This is quite a simple concept, and basically means if we do all the small things well (processes) the bigger picture (outcomes) will take care of itself. The beauty of this method is that it makes the game simpler for the player.

To enlighten you further to our plans for the WC. Some of our process based goals were:
Batting: 1 by and 2 by 50 run partnerships to be built on players playing to their "batting recipie" which is a combination of low, medium and high risk shots. Obviously they are supposed to play thier low risk shots in the early stages of their innings and then medium risk. High risk shots should only be used when we are chasing runs in a hurry, as the retrun is then worth the risk. Each players has his own recipie that we have discussed and styled to suit his own strengths and weaknesses. This is fine in theory, where we are still having trouble is with the application and getting players to be disciplined enough to stick to their plan. This will take time, without meaning any disrespect to anyone, in general there is a lack of discipline across the sub continent as a whole, with traffic being the first thing that springs to mind. Changing a mindset that is in grained from an early age is very difficult. A second goal was to score off about 40 balls per 100. Regardless of the value of the shot, if you can limit the number of dot balls you face, you increase the pressure on the bowling team and inevitably bad balls are bowled, enabling boundaries to be hit. This is our second area of concern, although we have improved this, our batsmen are unused to facing sustained quality bowling. they can score off bad bowling, but if some one is bowling well, we struggle to score. This is evident in the test team and is one thing we have worked extensively on in training, but we still need to do more.

Bowling: Bowlers are encouraged to bowl 90% decision balls, meaning 9 out of 10 balls have to be on or just outside off stump, forcing the batsmen to make a decision whether to play or leave. it is also the area, where most wickets fall. our bowlers, in general do this as well any team i have seen at any level. obviously at various stages of the game the length changes. All players had to develop at least two variations (change of pace) and to be able to bowl the three lengths required (yorker, bouncer & good length).
Our other target, also involved the fielders was to bowl 66% dot balls. In one day cricket and to a certain extent in multi day cricket if you can restrict a batsmen from scoring, he will get himself out via a silly shot.

That is briefly what out match plans were, along with a few other small things.

In relation to the WC performances, well there are always going to be positives and negatives.

Obviously we did not make the Super League round. This was extrememly dissappointing as we have all expressed several times. Whether we made the correct decisions regarding who to play and not play, whether to bat or bowl first etc is all very easy in hidnsight and may or may not have changed the results anyway. India were and are a quality team, and we would have had to produce an outstanding performance to beat them, whether we batted or bowled first. The NZ was the killer for us (and we batted first). In one day cricket, one player can almost win you a match, on that day Mackay from NZ had his day in the sun. I don't think he scored too many after that, but he did enough to win that game. We learned from that and i think the performance against the Aussies reflected that. it was a very similar situation, but we had been through it once before and had learnt from it. Full credit the players for their composure. Ashikur and Enamul were outstanding in their leadership. Twice, Ashikur called the players into a huddle on the field, when they were becoming flustered, and twice we secured a wicket not long after. We had spoken about doing this about 2 months ago, and Ashikur remembered this and did it. Well done.

We won all games we should have, something that has not happened before. We were clinical in our defeat of most of the weaker team. We stumbled against Canada and Uganda, but the rest were comprehensive. This is a good sign that players are not settling for mediocrity, but are becoming more proessional and consistent in their approach to the game. In the entire campaign including the warm up matches, we played 13 games and won 11, so we are learning to win games.

I have attached some graphs that I use to track our performances. The lines are trend lines, with the actual dot points hidden to make it easier to read.

Areas we need to improve (Negatives if you like)

Our batting still lacks consistency and discipline. This will come with playing more tough cricket.

Our pace bowlers need to swing the ball more and control it.

Our spinners outside of Enam need to be more consistent and believe in their abiltiy to do the job.

While we have some excellent fielders, we have some very weak fielders as well, who need to work very hard on their speed, fitness and throwing speed to catch their team mates.

Our ability to think under "pressure" is improving, but needs to keep improving.

Our "sport intelligence", or our ability to choose the right options at the right times. this is really only gained through experience, and you can only train experience to a small extent, it has to be lived and learnt on the battle field.

I could go on forever about thing we could improve on, but we need to focus on a few things and get them right, rather than trying to do everything at once. When i first arrived here, we ran some practice matches at BKSP and teams were getting bowled out in less than 20 overs, we could not build partnerships. Now a few months later we are having trouble finishing our overs. a new problem, but a better one to have.

I will keep working towards making our teams stronger, that is all I can do.

Cheers
Richard

observer
March 6, 2004, 12:31 AM

nasifkhan
March 6, 2004, 12:35 AM
Originally posted by observer



Sure you can......

pagol-chagol
March 6, 2004, 01:01 AM
THANK YOU COACH:)

Sham
March 6, 2004, 01:05 AM
Thanks a lot for sharing Richard. I think you have the right ideas. Just keep working away at them.

Hasib
March 6, 2004, 01:09 AM
Richard

umm... the attechments hav now been bloked to slow pressure on the server. Just U2U it to Chinaman or Rajputro.

Shubho
March 6, 2004, 01:32 AM
I'm glad we have him as a coach, and not some dodo Subcontinental. Been there, done that, and failed quite f---ing miserably.

Although I'm disappointed that we didn't make it to the Super League, it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. This is just the U19 World Cup, not the real deal. Our focus should be on developing quality players for the future, and these players are being nurtured well. They are indeed learning from game to game. This is quite a different scenario from when we won the Plate final in 1998.

By the way, I think we should be a whole lot more enthusiastic about Richard posting on this board. He's made a great effort in explaining the goings on in the development sides. I, for one, would like him to post more often. Also, could one of the BanglaCricket staff look into the matter of obtaining the graphs from Mr McInnes please.

Richard, mate, g'day 2 ya, and make our boys live the Ozzie dream. You da man!

rafiq
March 6, 2004, 01:34 AM
Why can't you guys stop nitpicking for just a little bit? Bangladesh never wins anything, so even if it is a lowly Plate Champoinship and even if it is now a regular thing for us (like the ICC Assocaites champoinship was) and even if the Aus U-19 team is "not strong", so friggin' what?

Why can't you just chill and rise above pettiness and take it upon yourself to give credit to all who were involved? How hard is that?

pavel
March 6, 2004, 01:41 AM
Originally posted by rafiq
Why can't you guys stop nitpicking for just a little bit? Bangladesh never wins anything, so even if it is a lowly Plate Champoinship and even if it is now a regular thing for us (like the ICC Assocaites champoinship was) and even if the Aus U-19 team is "not strong", so friggin' what?

Why can't you just chill and rise above pettiness and take it upon yourself to give credit to all who were involved? How hard is that?

Apparently, it seems very hard for them. :)

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Richard.
How about involving some of the players to perticipate in discussions in this board?

Cheers,
pavs

Rubu
March 6, 2004, 01:43 AM
its hard to give credit to some one who does not deserve it. i do give double credit to the kids who own the plate even with lots of obstacles and learned how to fight back by themselves. u got the rest?
'naff said. i won't post anymore reply to this thread. promise.

[Edited on 6-3-2004 by AgentSmith]

Shubho
March 6, 2004, 01:45 AM
...looks like someone's hallucinating.

observer
March 6, 2004, 01:53 AM
I must agree with Agent Smith, the credit should and does go to the players. they hold the bat, they bowl the ball and they throw the stumps down when it counts. all i can do is try to help them learn and prepare them for any and every situation that they may face. They do deserve the credit, so in agreeance with Agent Smith, well done guys i am very proud of you.

unfortunately most of the players do not have access to the internet, although we are working on this through an arrangement with the British council. In the future we may invite them into a chat session or something similar so you can all talk to them. I think it would be interesting.

Hasib
March 6, 2004, 01:57 AM
Richard... if u didn't teach them... they couldn't have done it. So... good on yeah mate.

Mahmood
March 6, 2004, 01:59 AM
Observer, email the attachment to rajputro@banglacricket.com and we will link it to where you want in your post.

Emad03
March 6, 2004, 02:08 AM
Thx coach.

when a game goes down the wire ,people tend to critize the coach.But question always is the coach playing in the ground? NO .But what the coach does is teach the players so that they can improvise those tactics when they are in the ground playing a match.

Now the question is how well the coach teaches the players?

From your posts,coach, it looks very promising that the players are in the right direction.the proof of your hard work is the win against Australia-last time u-19 world cup champions, the batting ,the huddle , holding the nerves at nail bitting situation and many more...

Hats of to you:)

Thx once again for your post as it erases the the many rumors that goes in and around the board.

chinaman
March 6, 2004, 06:31 AM
Mr. McInnes sent the following Performane Charts in Excel format. The charts were converted to image files for easy viewing.

Download original file here (http://www.banglacricket.com/files/kpis.xls)


http://www.banglacricket.com/files/kpia.jpg


http://www.banglacricket.com/files/kpib.jpg

[Edited on 3-6-2004 by chinaman]

Hasib
March 6, 2004, 07:55 AM
I don't get it...

chinaman
March 6, 2004, 08:31 AM
Since the Pak tour to present (11/03 to 03/04):

The bowling chart shows:

1. Steady increase in dot balls exceeding the expectations.
2. Slight increase in numbers of maiden overs per innings by our bowlers. Expectation reached.
3. Some decrease in numbers of wide and no balls per innings. Further decrease expected.

The batting chart shows:

1. Significant improvement in scoring runs per 100 balls played. Further increase expected.
2. Steady increase in numbers of balls played before loosing a wicket.
3. Significant decline in numbers of partenership of less than 20 runs.
4. 50 or more runs partnership is in rise. Further increase expected.

Hasib
March 6, 2004, 08:37 AM
thanx. Well I hope these improvements will eventually flow into the senior team, inshallah... :fanflag:

Piranha
March 6, 2004, 07:56 PM
Dear Mr McInnes,

Thank you once again for coming to this website and sharing your thoughts with us.

Piranha
March 6, 2004, 09:37 PM
At last there seems to be some tangible evidence of "Sports Intelligence" in our cricketers. Our U-19 team managed to achieve victory even though at one stage, we were clearly on the well-trodden path of self-destruction.

Although our victory against Australia U-19 was quite impressive, it is clearly not the current norm for our players to perform at this level of excellence. Yet, everyone agrees that Bangladesh has talented cricketers. A lot of money and energy is spent on cricket and the facilities. The lack of Sports Intelligence is clearly the main factor causing this problem.

It has been mentioned several times that only experience can bring true sports intelligence to our players. In addition we need to improve the first class infrastructure. No doubt this is true, but gaining "experience" and improving infrastructure are time-consuming processes. Surely there must a way to speed things up!

I have given this issue a lot of thought. I have written them down below and I look forward to reading what the rest of the board thinks:

1) The cricketers need to develop an analytical mentality. (I think) they are mostly used to being given instructions (e.g. don't play rash shots!), rather than analyzing their own game and coming up with solutions. One thing I Lent in my acting class last year (yes I took acting!) is that being your own director is immensely helpful. So here is my acting experience applied to cricket:

- Players should carefully scrutinize each other's game. At the end of the day a player should write down <strong> three good things and three bad things </strong> they saw among each of the other players. Each player must be analyzed by everyone else individually.

- A copy of these critiques should be sent to the player as well as the coach. (a translator may be needed in this case). These critiques should be filed and the progress tracked.

- By looking at other peoples' game critically, the individual can see a reflection of the same mistakes he makes. This is immensely helpful in correcting them.

2) "Make your own target". This phrase is often heard in Business schools. Rather than being given a target (e.g by the CEO or in this case the coach), it is often more productive for someone to come up with his own target and working towards them. The "target" may be left entirely up to the discretion of the individual player, or the coach can set a baseline.

3) I am very pleased to see the data based approach to improving our cricketers (the CIA would probably call it "using metrics"). Ranking the players based on metrics might be even more useful.

I am encouraged by the U-19's performance and am looking forward to some sustained improvement in the future.

Piranha
March 6, 2004, 09:39 PM
I am intersted in seeing the data points of the charts as well. Any chance of putting them up? Perhaps an excel file will be too big, a space-delimited text file of the numbers might work. I am interested in seeing the variance of the underlying data.

chinaman
March 6, 2004, 11:48 PM
Originally posted by Piranha
I am intersted in seeing the data points of the charts as well. Any chance of putting them up? Perhaps an excel file will be too big, a space-delimited text file of the numbers might work. I am interested in seeing the variance of the underlying data.

Link for downloading the original file (kpi.xls less than 50kb) is just above the charts. Another link was provided with the article at the front page.

sajjadul
March 7, 2004, 01:33 AM
This gentleman's politeness, numbleness and dedication amuse me, as always.
It is great to have as our teams coach, Mr. McInee.

sage
March 7, 2004, 03:51 AM
Hi Coach,

It is great to talk to the coach directly. Thanx for sharing your views with us. Congratulations!! We wish you and our boys the best in the future.

Regards,
Sage

crickipagol
March 7, 2004, 04:25 AM
Coach:

You really got me impressed here. You must have the passion for this BD team, which bringing you here time and again.

About your one idea, to get the boys on the net, that will be really wonderful. If any of our guys visit this sort of discussion board they will get the idea about how passionately we bangladeshi fans feel about our teams. And I believe they should know about this.

Over the very short period of time that I have registered with this board, I have found lots of articles and comments are very genuine and heart felt. And reading some of these post will surely transpire within our players.

Much kudos to you and your spirited team. The team which beat the World Champs!

Take care.

chinaman
March 7, 2004, 09:38 AM
Mr. McInnes sent more detailed Key Performane Charts in Excel format . The charts were converted to image files for instant viewing.

Download original excel file here (http://www.banglacricket.com/files/kpi2.xls)


http://www.banglacricket.com/files/kpibowling.jpg


http://www.banglacricket.com/files/kpibatting.jpg

Shafi
March 7, 2004, 11:14 AM
This is my first post in this thread. I don't argue about whom I should give credit for the plate and also beating Australia.
Anyway I don't like one thing from our coach. I don't know if he actually said it or not, but I read it from the newspapers.
It's about optimism. I've read that our coach said that to beat a team it requires us to play good and them to play bad.
So my question is :

1.How can we expect others to play bad??
2.If we play good how can they play good also?
3. What is playing good?
:-/:-/

observer
March 7, 2004, 12:35 PM
"coach. I don't know if he actually said it or not, but I read it from the newspapers.
It's about optimism. I've read that our coach said that to beat a team it requires us to play good and them to play bad.
So my question is :

1.How can we expect others to play bad??
2.If we play good how can they play good also?
3. What is playing good?"

As frequently happens, that is not what i said. All along i have referred to us having to play "good cricket" to beat any team. "Good cricket" is bowling in the right area consistently, it is bowling a certain number of dot balls and creating pressure on the batting team. When we bat it is building partnerships by utilising low risk scoring shots early in our innings and running well between wickets to enable us to score off good bowling. It is about not losing two quick wickets at any stage to preventing the fielding team from gaining the ascendency.

If you do all of those things well, history and data will tell you that you will win most of your matches. A large number of teams around the world work on a similar principle so if you have a day when both teams play "good cricket" you get a great match that might be decided by one standout performance from an individual or a freakish catch or run out etc.

You do have to remember though that all teams do not start out exactly equal, despite what we would like to think some teams are stronger than others, for whatever reasons. I referred to this in our game against India. In all fairness India were and are a very good side, I thought they would win the WC, anyway, as good as i think our team was, i don't think it is being disrespectful or in any way degrading our players to say that India probably had the edge over us, and maybe it was only one player Shikar Dhawan. I think our bowling and fielding was as good or better, but Dhawan was head and shoulders above any of our batsmen and most bastmen in the WC. So what I said to the press, (I think, it was a while ago, and i probably said it about the Australia game too), was that we would have to play well and maybe that would be enough to not allow them to play to their potential and we will win. In most team v team sports you can generally only play as well as you are allowed to by your opposition. If you play well, it takes a good team to beat you.

I suppose that was what was so frsutrating about the NZ game, was that for the most part we played fairly well, we were in good positions with both bat and ball, so getting to those positions is a good thing, but we didn't capitalise on it. That is something we have to work on.

Hope that answers your questions.

observer
March 7, 2004, 12:38 PM
Piranha, thanks for the information. Have saved that one. we do some things similar to that in our post match assessments, but we can always do things better.

thanks

Shafi
March 7, 2004, 12:42 PM
Thanks man. :)

That's the benefit of direct conversation. We can make ourselves clear.

Congratulations. Help us going as u did.
Shafi

Pundit
March 7, 2004, 06:00 PM
And this is my thought -

1. Every fan has the right to debate
2. Every fan has the right to ask questions, but as part of a discussion with other fans
3. Every coach should expect to be metered, by his/her bosses (BCB admins in this case) & by the press (if done objectively)
4. It is nice that a coach takes advantage of modern electronics to share his or her thoughts with whomever possible
5. But, no fan has the right to demand answers from a coach, especially in the tone that some employ !

-You are not the coache's employers.
-Nor do you hold stocks dispersed by any coaches inc.
-Finally, the root of the problem goes back to the BKSP vs NZ practice match. Until then, not too many, but the most zealous, had any reason to believe that we would be playing in the super. A real game, and that against BKSP are 2 different things. Why, once a BKSP opener belted Ntini for 70+ runs or so over his 10 over quota.

I don't know where all this arrogance is coming from, but just because you are older or around the age of Mcinnis, does not give you the right to blabber out incoherent, out of context thoughts benefitting from hindsight.

Should I say - Kapish ? Oh, that's been said already !! Then what I would say to the some of you then is - just listen !!

[Edited on 7-3-2004 by Pundit]

Arnab
March 7, 2004, 06:55 PM
Gosh Pundit! You sound like some pro bono sports agent desparately seeking your next client.

Shafi
March 7, 2004, 11:50 PM
But, no fan has the right to demand answers from a coach, especially in the tone that some employ


It's not only the fans also it's the people who is asking for answers. You should admit that in democracy people is the power. Pundit bhai you admit that press can meter him but what is press? Isn't it the reflection and also the communicating line among the coach and the people??

So if we have a chane to communicate directly with the one we have questions about, I myself obviously take the chance other then being silent.