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chinaman
March 4, 2004, 01:27 PM
Dear All

As you might noticed that we have been growing fast lately. In order to keep this forum as decent as possible, we are planning to introduce some guidlines or house rules for posting. We believe these rules will help us maintain a quality forum as well as provide help to the new members.

Some examples would be, how to post a long url which instantly distorts the page layout if not posted within text, or, what to do when a member feels that he was unfairly treated by a post or what to do when multiple threads were started on the same topic etc etc.

The rules should also contain some remedial system for repeat violations. Some violations are more serious than others and we need to be careful in setting these guidlines.

We are asking for your thoughtful suggestions and recomendations. In the end, we might or might not adapt all of your suggestions but it would sure provide us your likings and dislikings alike and would help us better understand your views. Thank you very much.

Zunaid
March 4, 2004, 01:52 PM
This is one of my recommendations:

Could people refrain from posting requests for updates over and over again?

Our wonderful members are doing their best to give us updates whenever they can. These posts just increase the load on the server and serve no purpose.

Thanks,
Zunaid

rassel
March 4, 2004, 09:19 PM
I see you have tremendous amount of unnecessry data in your database, just start deleting some of those date to give a little breathing space for your server.

Tintin
March 5, 2004, 12:51 AM
Could people refrain from posting requests for updates over and over again?


When we discuss a match which is in progress, can we put the link to the scorecard in the first post in the thread (plus links like homeviewbangladesh etc where applicable). It might help in getting rid of these requests.

For the ICC WC, some matches were avialable in cricinfo, some in iccworldcup19 and some in bangladesherkhela. It is possible that a lot of times people were not sure where to look for the scores.

Shafi
March 5, 2004, 06:48 AM
I've seen a warning rating in many forums.
What if we introduce one here?

About unnecessary posts I think none thinks his/her posts are unnecessary.

But we can surely delete the match progress threads which are pretty heavier (as the u-19 final ,696 posts!! wow!!!) after say 2/3 days of the match.
This I think will significantly explore some free spaces.

And also threads which has not been replied say 7 or 10 days those also can be deleted.

Above all the member's consiousness is the most important. THEY HAVE THE EDIT BUTTON. :lol:

I myself always try to edit my posts.:karate:

Thank You
Shafi:fanflag:

chinaman
March 5, 2004, 07:35 AM
Guys, deleting posts is out of question. All posts vividly capture the momemtary emotion, views and expressions of the posters. We treat all posts as if they were valuable relics passed through the rigor of times. Besides, we have no problem with "space" or "bandwidth usage" whatsoever.

Here in this thread, we are not talking about any server issue, rather, we like to talk about posting etiquette and behaviour. I hope this will help clear up any misunderstanding that might have stemed from other issues. Thank you.

Zunaid
March 5, 2004, 11:54 AM
General Guidelines

Be civil - Do not shoot the messenger.
No profanity - Period.
No disruption - Do not disrupt or destroy meaningful conversation for its own sake - Remember Godwin's law.
Do not abuse or vilify other posters for its own sake - See be civil.
No advertising - For advertising's sake. A brief pointer in a signature maybe ok provided the linked site is
No Shouting - DO NOT POST IN ALL CAPS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No Signatures - Do not use bandwidth hogging signatures or large images that detracts from a pleasing reading environment.
No off-topic postings - Do not post off-topic messages. We ask readers to ignore such posts. It's hard to keep the comments clear of them if several people respond to them and responses mix with actual commentary.
No Defamation - No posts containing allegations or insinuations of illegal conduct against named persons.
Do not waste bandwidth - Do not waste space with one word responses or emoticons!
No Flames - No posts containing offensive racial, gender, sexual preference, religious, political, or nationality-bashing language.
No Grammar Police: No comments on grammar, spelling, posting errors and any related discussion. Spelling and grammar mistakes are inevitable and most members here are non-native English speakers or even savvy computer users. Forgive others their errors (privately) and we'll forgive you yours (privately).
No Double postings: Please no double postings and "Sorry for the double post" messages. We can delete the double message. If it happens to you, don't worry about it. A short message to a moderator will usually fix the problem without wasting all the other forum readers' time. If you see a posting error from someone else, ignore it.
No Spam - No repeated posting of the same message. Generally if a message bears posting repeatedly it can stand on it's own as a separate topic, posted once.

Response to violations

Generally we will follow the following 3 strikes policy

Strike 1: The offending message may be edited/deleted and the member notified by U2U
Strike 2: The offending message will be deleted and the member will be warned by U2U and may receive a public warning
Strike 3: The offending message will be deleted, the member/IP banned (temporarily or permanently) depending on the nature of the infarction.

Banglacricket reserves the right to edit/delete messages and ban members at our sole discretion.

Comments anyone?

[Edited on 5-3-2004 by Zunaid : i before e and other tpyos :)]

Arnab
March 5, 2004, 12:18 PM
Let me throw in a comment. Or, rather reflect on one of my previous ones.

I made a comment a while ago about Banglacricket gradually becoming more bureaucratic and corporate souding, with increasing number of rigid rules imposed by a cabal of mods.

I was quite prophetic.

Navarene
March 5, 2004, 12:21 PM
Bapre..eto niyom :duh:



No disruption - Do not disrupt or destroy meaningful conversation for its own sake - Remember Godwin's law.


well, this should be more focused by our posters. An on going substantial conversation should not be hindered/disrupted by a post with senseless emoticon or one word comment.

Mahmood
March 5, 2004, 12:30 PM
Actually, just be being nice to all and making sure all posts are wise, should do it. Just by doing these 2, you will pretty much stay out of trouble.

As for Arnab, you are a big part of that bureaucratic and corporate souding with your contributions as staff. As we continue to grow, it is just natarul that we will have more issues with posting and rules will be intruduced to keep it a friendly place. Imagine having 3-4 thousand fans posting daily, things just wont stay casual.

Zunaid
March 5, 2004, 12:34 PM
Originally posted by Arnab
Let me throw in a comment. Or, rather reflect on one of my previous ones.

I made a comment a while ago about Banglacricket gradually becoming more bureaucratic and corporate souding, with increasing number of rigid rules imposed by a cabal of mods.

I was quite prophetic.

Hah.

As a member of the so-called-cabal, let me say that the over "suggested guidelines" have been put up to elicit opinion.

And in any event, I do not consider most of these to be Fascistic in nature (there. did I just invoke Godwin's Law?). To me most seem to be based on good common sense and common courtesy.

Of course we could get into a discussion on the nuances of the words "guidelines" and "rules". There I think I suceeded in breaking more than one of the "rigid rules".

Cheers,
Z

Arnab
March 5, 2004, 12:42 PM
I wasn't being particular about any of the suggested guidelines. Pretty much all of them make sense. I am talking about the natural trend here. I am into psychology, so it's actually nice to observe the evolution of a community and predict its course, whether it's something I personally like or not.

Zunaid
March 5, 2004, 12:56 PM
Originally posted by Arnab
I wasn't being particular about any of the suggested guidelines. Pretty much all of them make sense. I am talking about the natural trend here. I am into psychology, so it's actually nice to observe the evolution of a community and predict its course, whether it's something I personally like or not.

Off Topic Alert:

[Posted here for context and then I'll move it to Forget Cricket.]

There are some very interesting papers on the evolution of virtual communities and how they too mirror the evolution of society at large - where a succesful community of interest has manged to reconcile the possibly conflicting pulls of self-preservation and community-preservation.

MIT's sociology professor Sherry Turkle has some interesting thoughts on this matter.

We have communtities of
- interest
- relationship
- fantasy
- transaction

Not all mutually exclusive. Now trying to come back on-topic, the BanglaCricket forum has elements of the first three (fantasy perhaps because of the state of BD cricket today :)).

- Z

ps.

I also recommend Rheingolds book on Virtual Community (http://www.rheingold.com/vc/book/intro.html) - where he claims we are social animals but NOT YET community creatures.

James90
March 5, 2004, 05:00 PM
I don't think we should have things like rhyming competitions cos we're bored or some of the things written in the "?" thread. Mosts should be meaningful

Arnab
March 6, 2004, 12:14 AM
Hmm...it's interesting how we already have papers on virtual communities whereas we have yet to grasp with a good degree of certainty how things play out in the real ones.

I will give those a read if I have time.

[Edited on 6-3-2004 by Arnab]

Rubu
March 6, 2004, 02:31 AM
i think there should be a restriction to how many new thread one can create everyday. i think that would help from getting rid of useless threads and b4 posting everyone will think about the quality of their thread

reinausagi
March 7, 2004, 10:06 PM
The less regulation, the better. If anything, restrict the forum to Bangladesh Cricket and nothing else? should take care of "?' threads previously alluded to. No objection to editing to eject profanity, posts promoting racial divesiveness and simple indecency and incivility etc. I think, overall, this is a very well run board.

fab
March 8, 2004, 02:35 AM
If anything, restrict the forum to Bangladesh Cricket and nothing else?
Yup, only room for Bangladesh cricket here. Get rid of International cricket, Forget cricket, Bangladesh football and Support ;)

Apart from "No disruption - Do not disrupt or destroy meaningful conversation for its own sake", which I'm not quite sure I understand, the other guidelines Zunaid has posted seem fair to me.

Orpheus
March 8, 2004, 04:18 AM
Are you crazy??? That's the only forum I go to....

It's boring reading about stupid losers all the time... Same thing over and over and over again.....

The only thing you can get rid off is "support" and "Bangladesh football" - that's all!

No racial slur?? NO WAY!! We are all bengalis here - ke offended hobe? Occassionally, Paikka, kaula, chino, shada, sylheti aar latino der gaali na dite parle... amar bhalo laage na!

Mahmood
March 8, 2004, 10:18 AM
Why are we talking about getting rid of forums? All this thread is meant to deal with is the language/abuse in posts, nothing else.

[Edited on 8-3-2004 by Rajputro]

oracle
March 8, 2004, 10:54 AM
Is the underlying reason for getting rid of the other forums to minimize abuse?

Won't work. If someone is determined to walks thru the front door with dirty boots he will go into any room. Does'nt matter what the forum is called.:-/

Zunaid
March 8, 2004, 12:33 PM
Originally posted by Orpheus


No racial slur?? NO WAY!! We are all bengalis here - ke offended hobe? Occassionally, Paikka, kaula, chino, shada, sylheti aar latino der gaali na dite parle... amar bhalo laage na!

Are we all really?

Speaking personally, this is precisely something that I abhor. It does not make it ok to deride/disparage others just because we think they may not be listening. I am not even going to comment on the underlying ethos that this is even midly amusing.

- Z


Would it be ok

Zunaid
March 8, 2004, 12:36 PM
Originally posted by reinausagi
The less regulation, the better. If anything, restrict the forum to Bangladesh Cricket and nothing else? should take care of "?' threads previously alluded to. No objection to editing to eject profanity, posts promoting racial divesiveness and simple indecency and incivility etc. I think, overall, this is a very well run board.

You said it - decency and civility is all we need to make these forums thrive.

I would not want to get rid of any forums. Man or woman cant live by "cricket" alone -though sometimes I think I can't. Forget Cricket and all the others have their places. Even '?' has it's place in Forget Cricket.

Cheers,
Zunaid

Piranha
March 8, 2004, 02:27 PM
Sorry to bring the discussion back to sociology and psychology, but I think it is a very important issue in this thread.

If you look at the long run performance of societies, you will see that those which have had strong <strong>rule-based society</strong> have far outperformed those who dont have such rule based societies. This is a standard example cited in economics.

Web-soceities are not much different from real societies and the same idea applies.

If you are interested in reading more, check out <a href=http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.asp?ID=9157>this</a>

Having said that, the best rules are the simplest ones. So here is my suggestion for rules:

1) Show <strong> respect for others </strong> in your posts. "Respect" is defined by the subject of the posts, not the poster. If some feels offended, the poster should face some action regardless of what the poster's definition of "respect" is.

2) No double posting / repeating the same idea several times.

3) The BanglaCricket foruum must have some relevenace to Bangladesh and cricket.

[Edited on 8-3-2004 by Piranha : thanks chinaman]

chinaman
March 8, 2004, 03:37 PM
Originally posted by Piranha

If you look at the long run performance of societies, you will see that those which have had strong <strong>rule-based society</strong> and some system of adapting laws to meet current needs.


Missing aurgument?

Shubho
March 8, 2004, 04:04 PM
I would appreciate it if Pak-bashing were still allowed. Damn it, we have to vent our frustration somewhere. This was the perfect forum to do so.

chinaman
March 8, 2004, 04:09 PM
Your post is a good example for delete candidates.

Shubho
March 8, 2004, 04:14 PM
gee, i'm sorry mr chinaman. i apologize for lacking in the measure of political correctness that you unfailingly display on every occasion. you are my role model.

Zunaid
March 8, 2004, 09:10 PM
Originally posted by chinaman
Your post is a good example for delete candidates.

I'm note sure about this one... Good natured "bashing" in the context is fine. I mean I can't be a true fan if I can't put down my opposing team.

When it moves from Pak-bashing to Paki-bashing is a different issue.

There are grey lines everywhere... I take the attitude I will know it if I see it.

- Z

fab
March 8, 2004, 10:13 PM
Originally posted by Piranha
If you are interested in reading more, check out <a href=http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.asp?ID=9157>this</a>
Wow.. I am absolutely stunned. A Frontpagemag article that actually makes
sense (and ISN'T extreme right-wing, zionist, racist or plain crap)

btw, i wasn't seriously suggesting the removal of the other forums -
that would just mean people like me would end up posting off topic rubbish in the main forum..

Orpheus
March 9, 2004, 06:43 AM
Originally posted by chinaman
Your post is a good example for delete candidates.

This is tyranny! Someone phone Bush and tell him to liberate us..... Zunaid and Chinaman possess WMD (weapons of mass Dedication)!
Too much of anything is bad!

Dr. Z, thank you for sharing your thoughts!

Mahmood
March 9, 2004, 10:14 AM
Oh Orphy, come on man. We are trying to make this board a rated G, as you know, cricket is popular from kids to elderly person.

Keeping it friendly helps that cause too. Dont worry too much about rules. Just keep posting nicely and dont offend anyone. You will be safe.

The rules are there to handle few bad apples, if any.

Orpheus
March 9, 2004, 12:03 PM
That post actually made me wanna be polite ...

You have leadership qualities ... :)

Down with Mao Zedong!

naa, we love chinaman!

Arnab
March 9, 2004, 02:43 PM
Off topic:

If you look at the long run performance of societies, you will see that those which have had strong rule-based society have far outperformed those who dont have such rule based societies. This is a standard example cited in economics.

Strong rules have never played a major role in the PROGRESS of any civilized societies. These rules just helped MAINTAIN societies from degrading.

Free thinkers with imagination are the ones whose contribution make one society "outperform" another.

And most of the "standard" examples in economics are bs. You know that. Economists don't take into account a LOT of parameters. Most of the assumptions in economics contain the phrase "ceteris paribas": all other things being equal. Well, guess what? Real world is nothing like these cute models. The examples based on such "models" are far from being "standard", IMO.

Piranha
March 9, 2004, 03:18 PM
(sorry this is taking the string farther off-topic, and feel free to move the post of needed)
<i>Originally by fab</i>
Wow.. I am absolutely stunned. A Frontpagemag article that actually makes
sense (and ISN'T extreme right-wing, zionist, racist or plain crap)


Actually the original article came out in the Wall Steet Journal. The WSJ requires paid registration so i did not link to it. I linked the frontpagemag because they have the entire article avaible for free;)

reply to Arnab:
I agree that most economics models dont take into account a lot of parameters. But then again, thats not what any economic model aims do in the first place. A model is a way of organizing your thoughts so that analyzing the world becomes easier. The point of a model is not to make an accurate representation of reality, but a simpler representation that is easier to undestand. No doubt there are some major pitfalls with this method; there are some advantages as well. If you read the article linked, you will get an idea of what I am talking about.

Arnab
March 9, 2004, 06:16 PM
I read WSJ everyday. And fab, take my word for it, WSJ editorials (not necessarily front page articles) ARE extreme right wing. :)

[Edited on 9-3-2004 by Arnab]

Piranha
March 9, 2004, 06:56 PM
I agree, WSJ editorials are full of right wing propaganda. The farther we stay away from them the better!

chinaman
March 9, 2004, 08:02 PM
Guys, let's keep the discussion on topic. We'll continue to hear from you over the next few days before making a draft.

Arnab
March 9, 2004, 11:24 PM
Suggestion #1:

No rigid corporate-like drafts with a long list of ruls is necassary. A sticky thread with a nice, friendly message from Tehsin/Raj Bhai explaining the rules of common-sense decency and things like that is going to be much more effective and make the users feel less claustrophobic. I don't want to see flocks of sheep in here. Which will exactly happen if you present a long list of rules.

G-rated decency is fine. But G-rated intellect is not.

--------------

Suggestion #2:

A source of potential misunderstanding is the difference of ages among users. I have found on innumerous occasions some of the older guys here debating with 14 year olds about non-cricket issues. That's just silly. Amit's example is one. I mean he is a little teenager from Delhi or something. He doesn't know a lot of things. But many of the adult members engaged in so many silly debates with him that I found it really amusing. I don't know how to remedy this age difference thing. But there could be a way.

[Edited on 10-3-2004 by Arnab]

AsifTheManRahman
March 9, 2004, 11:55 PM
I have a suggestion, though it's not about postings...
Really the amount of popularity that this site has earned requires the moderators to be more careful when choosing the main articles in the home page...I mean (with all due respect to the writers)some of the articles are simply useless with no cricket knowledge in them and useless flurry of literature...more like somebody competing in an essay competition...

Zunaid
March 9, 2004, 11:56 PM
Originally posted by Arnab
Suggestion #1:

No rigid corporate-like drafts with a long list of ruls is necassary. A sticky thread with a nice, friendly message from Tehsin/Raj Bhai explaining the rules of common-sense decency and things like that is going to be much more effective and make the users feel less claustrophobic. I don't want to see flocks of sheep in here. Which will exactly happen if you present a long list of rules.

[Edited on 10-3-2004 by Arnab]

I find myself agreeing with Arnab here. Rigid codification may not be necessary at all. In fact, just the presence of this thread might be sufficient - the goal is to ensure common decency, civility and courtesy.

The long list of DOs/Don'ts that I had posted earlier _sans_ the punitive measures are suggested as guidelines and guidelines only. But, some guidelines _are_ necessary and I'm sure all moderators are generally working from the same basic principles.

Bringing back the community metaphor here, a set of common guiding principles is necessary for the community to thrive. They don't necessarrily have to be etched in stone ala Hammurabi. As long as the community is aware of them we should be fine. [And those who stray, we will hunt them down and oops wrong forum...]

A too rigid society implodes and a too anarchist society explodes.

Havig said all that, I would like to re-iterate: Bigotry should have no place here.

- Z

Zobair
March 9, 2004, 11:59 PM
Like raana bhai said the rules are under consideration to keep the few bad apples in check given the "explosion in membership", and should not unduly concern most of the members on this board. The idea to sustain an "inclusive" and friendly environment and encourage the further rapid growth of the forum. I think right now we are doing fine. The "guidelines" are being considered keeping "the future" in mind.

The guiding principle is decency here and that seems to be the consensus.

In a nutshell, people should be allowed to post their opinions without their age, race, sex or intellect coming into question in an insulting manner. People come here to share and learn,not to be judged by others. As long as we keep these in mind we are fine.

[Edited on 10-3-2004 by pompous]

Zunaid
March 10, 2004, 12:48 AM
Originally posted by Arnab

Suggestion #2:

A source of potential misunderstanding is the difference of ages among users. I have found on innumerous occasions some of the older guys here debating with 14 year olds about non-cricket issues. That's just silly. Amit's example is one. I mean he is a little teenager from Delhi or something. He doesn't know a lot of things. But many of the adult members engaged in so many silly debates with him that I found it really amusing. I don't know how to remedy this age difference thing. But there could be a way.

[Edited on 10-3-2004 by Arnab]


http://www.unc.edu/depts/jomc/academics/dri/idog.jpg

The relative anonymity on forums like these often make us forget that these are people we are responding to. It is always good to ask before posting, would I have said what I want to if the person was face-to-face?

Part of the problem also lies in the medium itself - you can throw in all the emoticons, it is still difficult to convey the emotions. I nicely constructed sarcastic repartee can come out like a below the belt insult.

And we should also not forget that most of us are not native speakers of English. What may be perfectly polite in Bangla may sound disrespectful in English - and vice versa.

For a lighter aside go here (http://www.templetons.com/brad/emily.html)

Those who have been on usenet in the early days might remember Brad Templeton - he was the founder of Clarinet (the first dot com company) and also started net's most widely read newsgroup rec.humor.funny. He is now chairman of the Electronic Frontier Foundation (my hero).

- Z

ps. From old usenet lore: volume is not precision

chinaman
March 10, 2004, 05:42 PM
Dear All

I don't mean to sound like a spoiler, but, I'd really like to ask for a big favor from you, the posters. We are all very pleased and excited over a historic win and like to share our thoughts. We all like to post as well as to read, every single bit of it. But, some posts are changing the layout of the forum forcing us to make edits quite frequently. It is also not prudent to sent u2u to every poster about those posts. In fact, some may not even know if their posts were causing the distortions. In the absence of a guideline, I'd ask you to follow the following instructions as these will also keep our server utilization a little down in addition to a pleasant reading and writing environment.

1. Please do not post more than 10 emoticons in one line.
2. Before starting a new thread, please look around, chances are pretty good that you'll find a relevant one.
3. If possible, please post similar contents in one post. Example, links. Instead of posting one post for one link, you may collect all links and post them in one post. You can always edit to make additions.
4. Please do not repeat a post. Please check first if someone else had already posted it or not.
5. Please try not to post pictures wider than 600 pixl.

Thank you very much for your kind consideration.

acbizz
March 16, 2004, 04:10 PM
when are you guys are done with the rules, could you please mail me the rule book..so that I can memorize everything and utilize it before posting anymore msg

thank you

Zunaid
March 16, 2004, 04:21 PM
Originally posted by acbizz
when are you guys are done with the rules, could you please mail me the rule book..so that I can memorize everything and utilize it before posting anymore msg

thank you

you forgot to use the sarcasm green

Piranha
March 16, 2004, 06:26 PM
Chinaman, I really liked your last post. It is clear, concise and not too 'rigid'.

I say that we should adopt the draft as our official set of "rules".

chinaman
March 18, 2004, 05:41 PM
A. Do not distort forum layout:[list=1] Put at least one "space" after 10 consecutive emoticons.
Post the link only instead of a picture that is wider than 600 pix.
Put long link inside text.
Use short, text only signature that does not carry objectionable message.[/list=1]B. Avoid unnecessary formating:[list=1] Avoid all caps, all bold, all colors or other catchy formating. Highlight only the relevant part and only if necessary.
Use short and concise subject. Use subject in a reply post only if necessary.
Use exclamation signs and likes of it, judiciously. Example, write "Who is he?" instead of "Who is he???" or "Who is he?!?" etc, etc.
Use languages that moderators can understand. Usually, those are Bangla and English.[/list=1]C. Maintain a pleasant reading environment:[list=1] Be civil. Do not disrupt, vilify, abuse, defame or make otherwise offensive comments against another poster through post or u2u.
Avoid replying to an offensive post, report it to the moderators instead.
Absolutely no profanity. Maintain a G rated environment at all times. No spaming, flaming or swearing.
Avoid off-topic and repeat posting and do not practice cheap ways to increase the post count. Look around first before starting a new thread. Post similar contents in one post whenever possible.[/list=1]D. Violation:[list=1] Moderators may edit or delete any post any time.
Violators may be warned privately or publicly. Repeat violations may lead to permanent ban.
Administrators and moderator's decision is final.[/list=1]

[Edited on 3-19-2004 by chinaman]