PDA

View Full Version : Statistic: BD Men of Steel and Jello (ODI)


zsayeed
March 27, 2012, 07:32 PM
Here is an interesting statistic.

Of the 126 matches played, Shakib (http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/56143.html?class=2;template=results;type=batting) averages 54.50 when BD wins (55 matches), and 26.2 when loses(71 matches)

Of the 113 matches played, Tamim (http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/56194.html?class=2;template=results;type=batting) averages 40.10 when BD wins (39 matches), and 24.9 when loses(74 matches)

Let's expand on this.

Here is the complete list of BD batsmen for winning games (http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=2;filter=advanced;orderby=runs;qu almin1=500;qualval1=runs;result=1;team=25;template =results;type=batting) who have scored more than 500 runs in a winning cause individually.

http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff430/zsayeed/win.jpg

If we relax the filter to total 400 runs (http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=2;filter=advanced;orderby=batting _average;qualmin1=500;qualval1=runs;result=2;team= 25;template=results;type=batting) in a winning cause, we get some more interesting names for comparison:
http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff430/zsayeed/win400.jpg


And Roqibul is really a rock (http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=2;filter=advanced;orderby=batting _average;qualmin1=500;qualval1=runs;result=2;team= 25;template=results;type=batting) when the team loses, performing marginally better under pressure. (again 500 runs is the cutoff)
http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff430/zsayeed/loss.jpg

Now taking those results, and arranging them in order of Loss Average over Win Average - Let's call this statistic the Solidity Factor, we see that Roq is the most die hard person on the team - nerves of steel!

Imrul is second, Junaid 3rd, .... and sadly SN last. However, SN has a fabulous win average.
Mind you these are players who have atleast 400 runs to their name in a winning cause, or 500 runs to their name in a losing cause.

http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff430/zsayeed/steele.jpg
On the other hand one may observe, and rightly so, that when the people below the 50% solidity factor fail - the country get's doomed.

Further observations? Let's Discuss.

Tiger444
March 27, 2012, 07:43 PM
zsayeed bhai, why don't you add just the wins against the G8 teams? That takes the fluff out and we can see the pure numbers.

Navo
March 27, 2012, 07:47 PM
^^ I think with an average of 28 throughout (with a strike rate of 60), it indicates mediocrity rather than solidity. If Rock was scoring 40 average throughout, win or lose, it might indicate that he scores runs even when the chips are down and it's the failure of others that keep the team from winning.

On the other hand, as you correctly concluded at the end of your post, when people like Shakib score less than 30, you know that the team is in for a rough time.

zsayeed
March 27, 2012, 07:47 PM
One may observe that SN has contributed significantly to winning causes and losing causes (in a negative way by averaging poorly), but the losing causes have stood out more in people's (selectors?) minds. When he has performed, Bangladesh have won.

zsayeed
March 27, 2012, 07:48 PM
zsayeed bhai, why don't you add just the wins against the G8 teams? That takes the fluff out and we can see the pure numbers.

Let's see how it turns out.Thanks!

Navo
March 27, 2012, 07:49 PM
^ Zsayeed bhai, I think Tiger444 is right, you should take out the matches against Zimbabwe. It inflates the figures.

zsayeed
March 27, 2012, 07:54 PM
The problem I am having is that with G8 teams, the sample size becomes small (for wins, and the 400 run winning filter just leaves Shak and Ash in the list). Expanding to lower filter.

zsayeed
March 27, 2012, 08:13 PM
Okay, Here is with G8 teams.
I had to lower the filter on winning total individual runs to 150 to get some names on the board. (http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=2;filter=advanced;opposition=1;op position=2;opposition=3;opposition=4;opposition=5; opposition=6;opposition=7;opposition=8;orderby=bat ting_average;qualmin1=150;qualval1=runs;result=1;t eam=25;template=results;type=batting)
http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff430/zsayeed/G8Pefo.jpg

Then I used the lost games to gather the losing averages (http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=2;filter=advanced;opposition=1;op position=2;opposition=3;opposition=4;opposition=5; opposition=6;opposition=7;opposition=8;orderby=run s;result=2;team=25;template=results;type=batting) for the people found on the list found on the link above. Roq, SN had to be dropped as they do not have 150 runs against G8 teams.


Here is the solidity factor (which I think would be better named as the inverse dependence factor, that is if the people on the bottom perform poorly, the team is doomed)
http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff430/zsayeed/G8.jpg
Rahim is actually Mr. Dependable, and if Ashraful has a bad day we are doomed. Ashraful has had a phenomenal winning average though, 57.11 from 11 winning matches. When he had a good day, we did win. Shakib as well...when he clicks we shine. But the converse is not true always.

Tamim as well performs just as well against G8 in a win as a loss. Mr. Dependable as well.

zsayeed
March 27, 2012, 08:23 PM
When Shakib does poorly - the team is doomed - but we knew that already. So the analysis is atleast realistic in one perspective. And Ash... oh well - when he clicked we were home.

zsayeed
March 27, 2012, 08:24 PM
^ Zsayeed bhai, I think Tiger444 is right, you should take out the matches against Zimbabwe. It inflates the figures.

Thanks Bhai, I have included
Australia England India New Zealand Pakistan South Africa Sri Lanka West Indies only

zsayeed
March 27, 2012, 08:30 PM
Okay, not to derail this conversation - but since our BD batsmen are so young, I wanted to look at all number 1 - 6 batsmen and wanted to see in the last 10 years the performance of batsmen aged up to 22 years, with at least 400 runs. I specifically looked at the conversion ratio (number of 100s over number of 50+ innings).
Here is the analysis,
http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff430/zsayeed/Under22.jpg

Note that Shahriyar Nafees leeds the pack from BD side.

Tiger444
March 27, 2012, 08:58 PM
Thanks zsayeed bhai. These stats again show who are our class players and separate the ordinary ones.

firstlane
March 27, 2012, 09:44 PM
Thanks zsayeed. Good effort.

zsayeed
March 27, 2012, 09:54 PM
One thing is becoming more clear as I look over the solidity factor, the people down the list more in a position of deciding the outcome of the game! That I think is what it means. the further down the list one goes the more responsibility is held - good or bad.

zsayeed
March 27, 2012, 09:55 PM
Thanks zsayeed bhai. These stats again show who are our class players and separate the ordinary ones.

Thanks zsayeed. Good effort.

Thanks for your encouragements. it means a lot.

shakibrulz
March 27, 2012, 10:42 PM
Stats is a bitch, it's alright for making certain generalizations/comparisons - but above that, you have to take into account criteria such as strength of the opposition, etc. for starters. SN eats Zimbabwe for breakfast, for instance.

zsayeed
March 27, 2012, 10:58 PM
Stats is a bitch, it's alright for making certain generalizations/comparisons - but above that, you have to take into account criteria such as strength of the opposition, etc. for starters. SN eats Zimbabwe for breakfast, for instance.

When I took only G8 teams into consideration, SN did disappear as he did not have more than 150 runs in winning innings in G8.
So post #8 would be of interest to you.

NoName
March 27, 2012, 11:00 PM
Nice, we have no Sachin.

Rabz
March 27, 2012, 11:36 PM
Ash averages 57 on winning cause against the G8.
That's remarkable.

riankhan
March 28, 2012, 12:04 AM
Interesting thread Zsayeed. Thanks a lot.

Night_wolf
March 28, 2012, 12:07 AM
Ash averages 57 on winning cause against the G8.
That's remarkable.

no surprise there...from 2004 to 2007 for every win vs G8 ash was the only match winner we had

this also shows that ash avg 17 in losing cause..again from 2004 to 2007 ash out r amader dom o ses hoye jeto

i am glad sei hit and miss er day gulo theke amader dol aste aste ber hoye asche

Rabz
March 28, 2012, 12:39 AM
^^ Yes, up until the emergency of Shakib, we had only one match winner.
Now we have Shakib and few other in leading supporting role.

Back in those days, it was all about Ash. Main/leading/supporting, all.
Mash used to win few games, Bashar used to score few half centuries, Rafiq could bowl tight, but it really was all about Ash.
Now the number tells it too !

zsayeed
March 28, 2012, 12:57 AM
In fact, that was my dilemma, when I started the analysis the winning run per individual was 400 as a query qualifier. when I imposed the G8 condition, only two batsmen were on the board - Ash and Shak.
No other player has more than 400 runs in the winning cause against G8! (http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=2;filter=advanced;opposition=1;op position=2;opposition=3;opposition=4;opposition=5; opposition=6;opposition=7;opposition=8;orderby=bat ting_average;qualmin2=400;qualval2=runs;result=1;t eam=25;template=results;type=batting)

http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff430/zsayeed/over400.jpg

That is why I had to lower the filter to 150 runs.

zsayeed
March 28, 2012, 01:56 AM
Interesting thread Zsayeed. Thanks a lot.

Thanks champ!:)

TIKBoss
March 28, 2012, 03:17 AM
just tells u how poor we used to be that we needed Sir Ash to win matches against g8.. now sir ash isn't able to find place in the team and we are winning against g8 a lot more without him..

playmaker
March 28, 2012, 04:10 AM
SN has good stats...

Nevertheless, we need a good core

zsayeed
March 28, 2012, 10:26 AM
just tells u how poor we used to be that we needed Sir Ash to win matches against g8.. now sir ash isn't able to find place in the team and we are winning against g8 a lot more without him..

In fact, the numbers say otherwise, BD has won 11 games with Ashraful (http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=2;filter=advanced;opposition=1;op position=2;opposition=3;opposition=4;opposition=5; opposition=6;opposition=7;opposition=8;orderby=won ;player_involve=24667;result=1;team=25;template=re sults;type=team) and 8 games without him (http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=2;filter=advanced;opposition=1;op position=2;opposition=3;opposition=4;opposition=5; opposition=6;opposition=7;opposition=8;orderby=won ;player_involve=24667;player_involve_type=none;res ult=1;spanmin1=05+Jan+2004;spanval1=span;team=25;t emplate=results;type=team)since 2004 when he started playing. These numbers are against G8 Teams.

Among those 11 games Ash averaged 57 runs per innings(the team performed at 35.14 average), and in the 8 that he was not involved in, the players averaged 30.45.

zinatf
March 28, 2012, 10:48 AM
Nice "shuta" zsayeed bhai :D

zsayeed
March 28, 2012, 11:02 AM
SN has good stats...

Nevertheless, we need a good core

Thanks for your post and visiting. :):up:
Not much can be said of SN against G8 - he was involved with 7 wins(*) against then and 34 losses against G8(**). At an average of 19 runs per win with a total of 138 runs to his name in the winning cause against G8s.

SN was involved in only 7 wins against G8 nations(*) out of the 19 post 2004 BD wins against G8(see above post pls). In those wins against G8 he scored at an avg of 19 per win.

He was involved with 34 wins altogether, so 27 of them were with non-G8 where he averaged 48.93 per win against all opponents. He has really gone to town against non-G8s. He has played 75 matches altogether (***), 34 against G8 of which BD won 7; and 41 against non-G8 of which BD won 34(****).

SN's performance against G8 has not been good with 19 runs per win only. It was not because of SN that we won.

* (http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=2;filter=advanced;opposition=1;op position=2;opposition=3;opposition=4;opposition=5; opposition=6;opposition=7;opposition=8;orderby=bat ting_average;result=1;team=25;template=results;typ e=batting)

** (http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=2;filter=advanced;opposition=1;op position=2;opposition=3;opposition=4;opposition=5; opposition=6;opposition=7;opposition=8;orderby=bat ting_average;qualmin1=150;qualval1=runs;result=2;t eam=25;template=results;type=batting)

*** (http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=2;filter=advanced;orderby=batting _average;team=25;template=results;type=batting)

**** (http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=2;filter=advanced;opposition=1;op position=2;opposition=3;opposition=4;opposition=5; opposition=6;opposition=7;opposition=8;orderby=bat ting_average;qualmin1=150;qualval1=runs;result=2;t eam=25;template=results;type=batting)

zsayeed
March 28, 2012, 11:04 AM
Nice "shuta" zsayeed bhai :D

Thanks sister. :)

playmaker
March 28, 2012, 11:24 AM
zsayeed bhai dekhi onek hyped :D

zsayeed
March 28, 2012, 11:27 AM
The problem with Ash is that he was experimented with by the management regarding his position.
He was good at 6, 7 (http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/55988.html?class=2;template=results;type=batting) (much like Nasir is now) and that did not work out. As we see in the graph below.

http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff430/zsayeed/ashavgsr.jpg

zsayeed
March 28, 2012, 11:36 AM
zsayeed bhai dekhi onek hyped :D
:)
Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

TIKBoss
March 28, 2012, 01:54 PM
In fact, the numbers say otherwise, BD has won 11 games with Ashraful (http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=2;filter=advanced;opposition=1;op position=2;opposition=3;opposition=4;opposition=5; opposition=6;opposition=7;opposition=8;orderby=won ;player_involve=24667;result=1;team=25;template=re sults;type=team) and 8 games without him (http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=2;filter=advanced;opposition=1;op position=2;opposition=3;opposition=4;opposition=5; opposition=6;opposition=7;opposition=8;orderby=won ;player_involve=24667;player_involve_type=none;res ult=1;spanmin1=05+Jan+2004;spanval1=span;team=25;t emplate=results;type=team)since 2004 when he started playing. These numbers are against G8 Teams.

Among those 11 games Ash averaged 57 runs per innings(the team performed at 35.14 average), and in the 8 that he was not involved in, the players averaged 30.45.
how many games against g8 in last 3 years we won without sir ash in the team? will be lot more than we won with him in the team for last 12 years

MohammedC
March 28, 2012, 01:57 PM
Thanks zsayeed bhai. These stats again show who are our class players and separate the ordinary ones.

Thanks for your encouragements. it means a lot.

What he meant really is "Thank God Rock is out of the table" :floor:

zsayeed
March 28, 2012, 02:15 PM
What he meant really is "Thank God Rock is out of the table" :floor:

I urge you to see this post as well. Roq's numbers indicates his hard work ethics on the field and good mentality. (http://www.banglacricket.com/alochona/showpost.php?p=1505447&postcount=5)

idrinkh2O
March 28, 2012, 02:43 PM
@zsayeed, excellent thread. very informative. :applause:
-------------
Wow, pleasantly surprised by Roq's hard work ethics/mentality. Keep it up Roqibul.

zsayeed
March 28, 2012, 02:55 PM
@zsayeed, excellent thread. very informative. :applause:
-------------
Wow, pleasantly surprised by Roq's hard work ethics/mentality. Keep it up Roqibul.

Thanks Brother!

sadekjake
March 31, 2012, 05:57 PM
how many games against g8 in last 3 years we won without sir ash in the team? will be lot more than we won with him in the team for last 12 years

may be if you kept him in, we would have won a few more in those 3 yrs, who knows. the numbers do support ash.

zsayeed
March 31, 2012, 11:25 PM
how many games against g8 in last 3 years we won without sir ash in the team? will be lot more than we won with him in the team for last 12 years

the numbers i reported were against g8, 11 with ash 8 without - against g8, click on the links.

oronnya
April 1, 2012, 12:16 AM
the numbers i reported were against g8, 11 with ash 8 without - against g8, click on the links.

Great thread Zulfiquar bhai !!! Some very interesting stats !!!

But Ash featuring in the 11 wins against the g8 seems like a paradox to me.. It would be interesting to see who were the major contributors in those wins !!!

mmm according to the stats that I found Ash actually contributed significantly only in 3 of those wins against the g8 and that too up untill 2007:


1. the famous Cardiff innings in 2007
2. against SL in 2006 and he scored 51
3. against SA in 2007 and he scored 87

Since then he has been severely inconsistent.. he still has some great innings against the g8 but those were like his once a year Eid innings.. Looking at the stats, he seems like more consistent against SL (almost always he has scored big) .. He is a gifted batsman no doubt there but I sincerely hope he gets his consistency and contribute to pur team.. with a performing Ash and with Tamim-Shakib-Mushy-Nasir it would be like a world class batting line up !!! I am waiting for the day when we will be the world beaters :)

Habib
April 1, 2012, 01:17 AM
may be if you kept him in, we would have won a few more in those 3 yrs, who knows. the numbers do support ash.

Now now I'm all for not declaring Ash's career over since he is only 27, but if you say Ash should've been given a free ride in the hope of getting those wins few and far between that's laughable.
In that case, it would have sent a wrong message to other established and upcoming cricketers that they can stay in the team forever just by doing a miracle innings once a year, no need for consistency! Imagine that.
We should be thankful that players like Shakib and Tamim are setting the trend of consistent performance. That should be the norm if we are to progress from the era of beating G8 teams once per year to beating them regularly.

zsayeed
April 1, 2012, 10:02 AM
Great thread Zulfiquar bhai !!! Some very interesting stats !!!

But Ash featuring in the 11 wins against the g8 seems like a paradox to me.. It would be interesting to see who were the major contributors in those wins !!!

mmm according to the stats that I found Ash actually contributed significantly only in 3 of those wins against the g8 and that too up untill 2007:


1. the famous Cardiff innings in 2007
2. against SL in 2006 and he scored 51
3. against SA in 2007 and he scored 87

Since then he has been severely inconsistent.. he still has some great innings against the g8 but those were like his once a year Eid innings.. Looking at the stats, he seems like more consistent against SL (almost always he has scored big) .. He is a gifted batsman no doubt there but I sincerely hope he gets his consistency and contribute to pur team.. with a performing Ash and with Tamim-Shakib-Mushy-Nasir it would be like a world class batting line up !!! I am waiting for the day when we will be the world beaters :)

You missed:
He scored 57 against WI in Dhaka
64 against wi in dhaka
60 against NZ in Dhaka
I will give a more complete list when I have a bit more time

as well - his average was 57