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View Full Version : West Indies Great Fast bowlers: If you had to pick 4 who would you pick?


Gowza
March 29, 2012, 11:53 PM
Awhile ago cricinfo had their series where they went through some of the test teams and did their best XI. when it came time to pick the west indies bowling attack they decided that they'd take lance gibbs so they had a spinner which meant the greatest of all time WI attack that they picked only had 3 fast bowlers. that's a huge crime for a cricketing nation with such an incredible fast bowling history.

so here goes, i will list a substantial list and we then pick our best 4.

George Francis
Wes Hall
Charlie Griffith
Andy Roberts
Michael Holding
Colin Croft
Joel Garner
Malcolm Marshall
Courtney Walsh
Curtly Ambrose
Ian Bishop
Sylvester Clarke
Roy Gilchrist
Manny Martindale
Herman Griffith
Wayne Daniel
Franklyn Stephenson
Pattrick Patterson
Keith Boyce

also as an extra i'd like to hear peoples opinions on WI fast bowlers who were thought to have tremendous talent but never lived up to it e.g. jerome taylor, reon king, fidel edwards, franklyn rose, jermaine lawson.

Zunaid
March 30, 2012, 12:01 AM
How can you chose only 4 from the above? I can whittle it down to 7 but after that ....

Zunaid
March 30, 2012, 12:04 AM
My 7, working on parrying it down

Wes Hall
Andy Roberts
Michael Holding
Joel Garner
Malcolm Marshall
Courtney Walsh
Curtly Ambrose

Gowza
March 30, 2012, 12:34 AM
My 7, working on parrying it down

Wes Hall
Andy Roberts
Michael Holding
Joel Garner
Malcolm Marshall
Courtney Walsh
Curtly Ambrose

tough isn't it? my first 3 would be marshall, holding and ambrose. then roberts, garner clarke. then you have croft, walsh and bishop. wes hall is right there to.

doing some research i've found most people pout marshall, holding and ambrose in their top 4. the 4th spot tends to be interchangleable between numerous people i mentioned in the first post but roberts and garner are 2 of the more popular ones for the 4th spot.

but then clarke is said to have been possibley the most fearsome fast men of the 80s, walsh is amazing for his longevity, bishop was a good bowler his whole career but amazing before his back injuries. wes hall and charlie griffiths were a great team.

stephenson was a good bowler plus he had good batting skills to, patrick patterson wasn't as consistent as others but had the pace, bounce and the fury.

wayne daniel i reckon is underrated but he didn't play many tests, roy gilchrist was a quality bowler as well.

Zeeshan
March 30, 2012, 12:36 AM
Since I only know of Garner, Ambrose, Walsh, Marshall I have to put choose them for the four.

Gowza
March 30, 2012, 12:51 AM
having looked up various top 10 lists of all time fast bowlers marshall and holding basically make everyones top 10 and walsh makes almost everyones top 10 and then ambrose is the next most picked out of the WI greats.

zinatf
March 30, 2012, 02:40 AM
Joel Garner
Michel Holding
Courtney Walsh
Curtly Ambrose

Gowza
March 30, 2012, 02:50 AM
Joel Garner
Michel Holding
Courtney Walsh
Curtly Ambrose

totally didn't expect marshall to be left out, nothing wrong with that, just it seems a lot of people consider malcolm marshall the best ever or at least the most complete.

been watching some video's today and holding has to be one of the most amazing bowlers, one of my favourites to watch.

Zunaid
March 30, 2012, 03:00 AM
I can pick a top 3 - Marshall, Holding, and Garner.

zinatf
March 30, 2012, 03:19 AM
Well Gowza bhai....I've only seen the youtube videos of Holding and Garner to be honest and have read about them in newspapers....I wasn't even born when they were playing, but I was fortunate enough to see Ambrose and Walsh playing on tv. So that's why did not know about Marshall....

Gowza
March 30, 2012, 03:19 AM
I can pick a top 3 - Marshall, Holding, and Garner.

nice, but may i ask how did garner get into your top 3?

i'm starting to lean towards roberts as my 4th with marshall, holding and ambrose being in the top 3. on a side note ian bishop had a lot of potential but those back injuries really hampered him even though he still turned out to be a very very fine bowler.

now in terms of intimidation and ferocity guys like croft, clarke, gilchrist and patterson come into it. now that attack would be very unpleasant to face, of course the attack of marshall, holding, roberts and ambrose is the better and more skillful unit.

mahbubH
March 30, 2012, 03:43 AM
roberts holding marshal ambrose

Leafs PWN
March 30, 2012, 11:14 AM
Very had to take it down But my list would be:

Joel Garner
Courtney Walsh
Curtly Ambrose
Michael Holding

The new generation of WI players are more inclined towards BBall due to more lucrative leagues. However, with the new era of T20 leagues, where making 1M per year isn't very hard for good players, I think we can hope to see some new names on that list in the next 20 years.

Navo
March 30, 2012, 01:34 PM
I would pick

Marshall
Holding
Garner
Ambrose

Gowza
March 30, 2012, 08:44 PM
glad to see walsh in a couple of top 4s i think he's underrated a little bit compared to guys like holding, ambrose, marshall, roberts.

i know sylvester clarke especially but wayne daniel as well were both considered very highly but lack of test matches puts them under the radar. patrick patteson had the attributes to be a great but didn't have the consistency of the others (had the weapons though).

Gowza
March 31, 2012, 12:50 AM
michael holding:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXsfEdJ_G5w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhYnYbvF9fo

courtney walsh (some ian bishop in the 1st clip):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzxZ2rR4jPQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xGfIZJVxP8

sylvester clarke (at his slowest):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GA1L_cDJEEI

wes hall:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhLXHQSmNa0

joel "big bird" garner:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiAwNvQOvnw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytNOth31K60
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Imoz_yIQeCM

andy roberts:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLZLleIzApM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yG0zHieeXqw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUxPegqMqho

patrick patterson:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJvVvYdAWLg

michael holding, andy roberts, colin croft and joel garner:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhU0BN_PYDs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9KZwTkvWoM

Gowza
March 31, 2012, 01:06 AM
curtly ambrose:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5G4pqb4nns
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SmwodC7E9k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jii7KFDQaes&feature=related

malcolm marshall:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DHH6kHCXDA

ambrose, bishop, walsh:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZHNW7JIW1M

Zeeshan
March 31, 2012, 02:13 AM
no Bangladeshi version starring rajib, rubel, shafi and of course, rasel?

Dilscoop
April 1, 2012, 12:09 AM
Is it bad that I've only heard of 5 of them and never seen any of them bowl.

Shaan
April 1, 2012, 02:46 AM
my all time West Indies bowlers are:

Ambrose
Holding
Walsh
Malcolm Marshall

God thanks those giants are not playing at this era otherwise really scary to see them bowling against our batsman:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Nmagl3Q_4VE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Equinox
April 1, 2012, 05:56 AM
Marshall
Ambrose
Garner
Holding

Nafi
April 1, 2012, 06:39 AM
Michael Holding
Malcolm Marshall
Courtney Walsh
Curtly Ambrose

Gowza
April 2, 2012, 10:36 PM
Is it bad that I've only heard of 5 of them and never seen any of them bowl.

which 5 are the ones you've heard of?

Gowza
April 2, 2012, 10:39 PM
Very had to take it down But my list would be:

Joel Garner
Courtney Walsh
Curtly Ambrose
Michael Holding

The new generation of WI players are more inclined towards BBall due to more lucrative leagues. However, with the new era of T20 leagues, where making 1M per year isn't very hard for good players, I think we can hope to see some new names on that list in the next 20 years.

andre russell seems to be pretty decent from what i've seen.....i haven't really seen much of jason holder other than some footage from a couple of u19 games where he was ok, has the height though and has a good domestic record and his name has been thrown around over the years as a promising prospect. carlos brathwaite also looks decent and kemar roach is a solid bowler.

i always liked fidel edwards tbh but he just doesn't have the consistency.

Gowza
April 5, 2012, 09:32 PM
Geoff Boycott is currently doing a segment on cricinfo talking about his XI favourite fast bowlers including talks on marshall, holding and garner.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/video_audio/index.html?genre=53

Tigers_eye
April 5, 2012, 10:46 PM
Hall
Holding
Marshal
Those three are in.
I am having trouble with the 4th.
Between Croft, Roberts, Garner, Walsh, Ambrose.

I'd take Walsh.

Gowza
April 5, 2012, 11:03 PM
Hall
Holding
Marshal
Those three are in.
I am having trouble with the 4th.
Between Croft, Roberts, Garner, Walsh, Ambrose.

I'd take Walsh.

hall was a great bowler, interested why you rate him in your top 4? having continued my research and watched more footage, even though marshall is one of the best ever i don't see or hear of him getting as much bounce as some of the other WI greats and for me that's one of the best weapons a pacer can have, i reckon that's what often makes the difference between WI fast men and others is that they can get high sharp bounce out of nothing. even greats of other countries don't usually manage that but quite a few WI ones do.

Shehwar
April 6, 2012, 02:54 AM
The Big Bird
Marshall
Holding
Ambrose

Tigers_eye
April 6, 2012, 06:03 AM
hall was a great bowler, interested why you rate him in your top 4? having continued my research and watched more footage, even though marshall is one of the best ever i don't see or hear of him getting as much bounce as some of the other WI greats and for me that's one of the best weapons a pacer can have, i reckon that's what often makes the difference between WI fast men and others is that they can get high sharp bounce out of nothing. even greats of other countries don't usually manage that but quite a few WI ones do.
Fearsome, pioneer, fast, accurate... as the legend goes he was the test version's death bowler.

Growing up heard of him as the one who would break people's arm at will. Colin Cowdrey was among one of the recipients.

As for Marshal 365 wickets is like 450 nowadays. He was too fast for most. Compare that with Shoaib Akhtar who couldn't even reach 200. The standard of greatness during the 70s.

Gowza
April 6, 2012, 06:45 AM
Fearsome, pioneer, fast, accurate... as the legend goes he was the test version's death bowler.

Growing up heard of him as the one who would break people's arm at will. Colin Cowdrey was among one of the recipients.

As for Marshal 365 wickets is like 450 nowadays. He was too fast for most. Compare that with Shoaib Akhtar who couldn't even reach 200. The standard of greatness during the 70s.

yes well the 70s and 80s produced some truly great fast bowlers, it's probably the best era of fast bowling that there has been....compare to the last 10 years and that period had soo many great fast bowlers now we have just a handful of really good ones and not many of them have been able to produce top quality bowling for a lengthy period. the article currently on cricinfo comparing anderson and steyn just shows, anderson has produced quality bowling for a couple of years and he's the best rival to steyn atm who is the one fast bowler of the current era who has been able to produce over a good period.

Tigers_eye
April 7, 2012, 07:46 PM
I am not sure what is the future of Amir. The portion I saw him bowling: I think he would have been up there with the Ws if not surpass them.

Shehwar
April 7, 2012, 07:51 PM
I am not sure what is the future of Amir. The portion I saw him bowling: I think he would have been up there with the Ws if not surpass them.

Amir did look promising but the two Ws were in a different league! I still have memories of Wasim and Waqar bowling teams out by themselves in test matches and defending ridiculously mediocre totals! And they produced that magic day in and day out for more than a decade!

Gowza
April 7, 2012, 10:10 PM
amir was amazing for his age, great pace for his age, great control etc but he still had a lot of development even though he was already quality at 17/18. he's missed some vital growing in the last year or so now, he could still become a great bowler but we may never know how good he could have been had he not lost the last year or so.

Gowza
April 7, 2012, 11:39 PM
whatever happened to jermaine lawson? that guy was a really really decent prospect and now i don't see him playing in any team anywhere. jerome taylor as well where has he gone?

i'm really excited to see how jason holder, andre russell and carlos brathwaite develop.

Navo
April 8, 2012, 12:29 AM
Amir, at the age of 17/18 when he had not finished growing, could already bowl at round-about 150 kmph. And get the ball to seam and swing prodigiously. The way he started, he would definitely have been the best fast bowler of Nasir's generation. To bad that it seems to be a moot point now.

Tigers_eye
April 8, 2012, 09:51 AM
whatever happened to jermaine lawson? that guy was a really really decent prospect and now i don't see him playing in any team anywhere. jerome taylor as well where has he gone?

i'm really excited to see how jason holder, andre russell and carlos brathwaite develop.
J Taylor had numerous injuries. This K Cooper is a good one as well.

Gowza
April 8, 2012, 08:11 PM
J Taylor had numerous injuries. This K Cooper is a good one as well.

i've heard keon joseph is a good prospect to. but andre russell has imprssed me a lot, he is a terrific allrounder. jason holder should maybe focus on bowling more than batting, it's great that he can hold a bat but with his height he could be a great fast bowler and have weaopns that not many others have like WI pacers of past, he has a great domestic record and did well the few overs he got against the aussies in the current tour.

carlos brathwaite looks good to, i'm surprised he hasn't got a run in the national team yet given his age and the issues they have with building a good pace attack.

btw my 3 favourite WI pacers have to be holding, walsh, ambrose. like hall a lot to tbh.

they have some great talent coming through, i can't believe they let guys like jermaine lawson and jerome taylor get away.

Gowza
April 12, 2012, 02:19 AM
J Taylor had numerous injuries. This K Cooper is a good one as well.

WI has a few really solid allrounders these days. obviously dwayne bravo as he's been around awhile now but they have k cooper and andre russell coming through as really good allrounders. even dwayne smith can bowl a bit and of course marlon samuels is decent enough. jason holder as well.

Gowza
April 20, 2012, 10:45 PM
btw Tony Gray was a very good bowler, had injury problems and read that clive lloyd had an issue with him when he once asked him to play injured and tony refused so after that he didn't have much of a chance to play anymore.

Sohel
June 29, 2012, 02:44 PM
Michael Holding
Malcolm Marshall
Courtney Walsh
Curtly Ambrose

:up::up::up::up:

Sovik
June 29, 2012, 03:42 PM
Andy Roberts
Michael Holding
Malcolm Marshall
Curtly Ambrose

Kohli_Sox
June 29, 2012, 05:46 PM
Malcolm Marshall
Andy Roberts
Curtly Ambrose
Ravi Rampaul (very underrated)

Was watching this few days ago, brilliant:up::notworthy:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/R6VZVoP4nYY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Gowza
June 29, 2012, 06:50 PM
i find always find roberts an interesting discussion because when picking out the best few WI pacemen he;s often forgotten but when you look at what players of his time say they often consider him one of the best and even a few consider him the best of his time and some even think of him as the best of all WI quicks.

garner was really effective but didn't have as many variations as others (although he had the height that not many of the others had), he wasn't as quick for example, so comes the question do you rate effectiveness (garner) higher than overall skill level (marshall, roberts, holding, walsh)? what about intimidation factor (croft, patterson, clarke, gilchrist)? also quality of opposition (ambrose)

Sohel
June 29, 2012, 11:28 PM
Malcolm Marshall
Andy Roberts
Curtly Ambrose
Ravi Rampaul (very underrated)

Excuse me if it's Sarc 101 but you can't be too sure in BC nowadays.

Ravi Rampaul?!? W-O-W!!!!

:o :lol: :floor: