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zsayeed
March 30, 2012, 06:57 PM
My new dream for Shakib.
But I have a question, has Kallis already exceeded Sobers's greatness?

Who should be the ultimate criterion for the best test all-rounder in history? Kallis or Sobers?

Who is it that if surpassed we can really say that Shakib is best all-rounder in history?
http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff430/zsayeed/SoberingShakKalBothImranDev.jpg

When can we replace the following Line in Cricinfo with Shakib's name?

In a nutshell While Bradman's status as the greatest batsman is increasingly under threat, no one raises an eyebrow at Garry Sobers being called the greatest allrounder.

I named it Sobering Shakib and Kallis... Is that a misnomer?

Discussions on becoming the best in all formats are welcome.

That is best in history - simultaneously in all formats and individually in each format.

Am I asking too much?

Can I dream a bit...a lot ... dream BIG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Addendum 1 March 30, 2012
I added Botham after reading Shuja Bhai's post, and seeing Botham's beast bowling stats - sorry Botham, thanks Shuja Bhai)
------------------------------------------------------------------
Addendum 2:
Imran March 30, 2012
------------------------------------------------------------------
Addendum 3
Kapil Added after reading Boka Bhai's post. Thanks! March 31, 2012
------------------------------------------------------------------

Navo
March 30, 2012, 07:22 PM
In spite of thicker bats, shorter boundaries, (usually) better pitches, etc etc Sobers' batting average is still better than Kallis'. That says something given how Kallis has been given free reign to practically play as a batsman over the past few years. Shakib's stats indicate that he is a better bowler than either of them, more 5-wi, better SR, better average - all in fewer matches. Shakib is not even close to either of them in terms of batting. I don't know if he will ever be given how few and far between our test matches are. I think, going by the FTP, Shakib will not get more than 70 test matches in his career. So, at the current rate (factoring in batting improvement), I see maybe 25 5-wicket hauls and 10 centuries. Good stats, but not something that will put him in the pantheon of all round greats

Gowza
March 30, 2012, 07:59 PM
i don't think kallis has surpassed sobers. everyone still talks of sobers as the greatest allrounder of all time, kallis is a current player if people thought he was near sobers of surpassing him i'm sure we would be hearing a lot more comparisons between them.

stats wise, kallis is as good or maybe even slightly better but factor in that sobers also bowled spin wchih would have pushed his average down and he might have slightly better stats than kallis.

but i reckon if you ask people who have seen both bowl they'll probably consider sobers the better bowler or at least better pacer. and batting wise even though kallis is consistent he has a reputation for being a slow poke (even though when he times the ball perfectly it looks sublime) whereas sobers has more of a reputation for flare.

now as far as shakib goes as has been said bowling wise he seems better, batting wise he has a long way to go. but i'd wonder who is considered the best spin allrounder of all time? shakib might already be pretty close to the top of those ranks, obviously to stay their he needs to continue doing it because longevity is a factor for greats.

Dilscoop
March 30, 2012, 08:44 PM
I don't see Shak scoring 25 more 100s in next 75-80 games to take over Sober. May be 15 at best, JMG. As for bowling, I don't wanna look too much into it, but his stats already look better than the other 2, though of course things can and will change.

And Kallis not being talked about much doesn't mean anything to me. Being the center of discussion, "the talk," has lot to do with personality and charisma. Kallis doesn't have any popularity. Kallis is a old school, quite guy. He hardly celebrates his wickets or centuries. He played and plays along side with many exciting but less talented players, yet they were more popular among fans.

He did up his rep by getting that wig and people started to talk about it. lol

shuziburo
March 30, 2012, 08:45 PM
To me a true all-rounder is someone who can make into the team both as a batsman and a bowler. Sobers definitely could, but Kallis? I don't think he makes into any current test team as a bowler. (Of the past all-rounders, the only other who could easily meet this criterion is Ian Botham.) Shakib should be able to get into any test team as a bowler. As a batsman, he should be able to make it to at least half of the test-playing nations. I don't expect him to attain Sobers' level, but he should be able to get close.

Rifat
March 30, 2012, 08:50 PM
This is almost like an official thread. Perhaps five years from now would be an ideal time to revisit this thread.
(Assuming Shakib continues to perform for Bangladesh with excellent fitness)

zsayeed
March 30, 2012, 09:02 PM
You guys have awesome comments!
I like the word Pantheon!
I see the pathos in the FTP.
I see Ian Botham needs attention.

I will add him to the table.
Thanks.

Addendum:
------------------------------------------------------------------
Botham batted at 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9; but mostly at #6
Kallis has batted at 3, 4, 5, 6, 7; but mostly at 4.

Dilscoop
March 30, 2012, 09:03 PM
Sobers definitely could, but Kallis? I don't think he makes into any current test team as a bowler.

Aus: Kallis over Christian, Dussey, (even Watson, considering he can't give his 100% while bowling and they could use a #3)
Ban: umm, do I even have to list names here?
Eng: Bopara, Bresnen, Patel
Ind: Mr Million Dollars/2weeks of gully cricket, The Pathan brothers, Vinay Kumar,
NZ: They've lost all their ALRs, so he can easily replace one of them, N McCullum,
Pak: dare I say Afridi, considering they have Ajmal? Abdur Rehman, Hammad Azam
Srl: Mathews, Randiv
WI: Sammy, Pollard, Bravos, Dwayne Smith, A Russell.
Zim: w/e

True, Kallis lost his bowling a bit, but that's due to the fact that they've had some awesome young bowlers coming in in last few years. But back in the day, Klusener, Pollock, and Kallis would dominate. Kallis is more of a batting ALR now, it's his strong suit.

Can Shakib get into any side with his batting? I should say bowling, considering his current form, but overall, bowling is his stronger side. So I'll ask for batting.

oronnya
March 30, 2012, 09:38 PM
My new dream for Shakib.
But I have a question, has Kallis already exceeded Sobers's greatness?

Who should be the ultimate criterion for the best test all-rounder in history? Kallis or Sobers?

Who is it that if surpassed we can really say that Shakib is best all-rounder in history?
place the foWhen can we rellowing Line in Cricinfo with Shakib's name?



I named it Sobering Shakib and Kallis... Is that a misnomer?

Discussions on becoming the best in all formats are welcome.

That is best in history - simultaneously in all formats and individually in each format.

Am I asking too much?

Can I dream a bit...a lot ... dream BIG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That will never happen as Shakib would never get a chance to play that many matches to surpass Sober's or Kallis's record.

And to say the truth the cricket world would never consider him as one of the greats unless he does something extraordinary against those elite teams (England, Aus, SA) and away from home.. or a man of tournament performance in the World Cup would earn him more respect than what he is getting now... So Shakib have to work really really hard. He have to get those double feats (century + 5 wicket hauls) or have to make a habit of scoring centuries more often.

But you know what separates Shakib from these greats is how this boy shone with limited resources that was available for him and with very little support from his teammates( I mean in terms of performance) .. for a long time he carried the burden of his team all by himself (Yeah he is still carrying the fair share of the burden but now at least many others has stepped up to support him). If you look at the match by match stats for both Sobers and Kallis you will see they always got a consistent partner at the other end who were more than capable of hitting centuries. And for bowling none of Sobers or Kallis were their team's strike bowlers, sometimes they even didn't have to bowl for more than 10 overs. But Shakib doesn't have that luxury..... It's him or none.He have to snatch the victory for his team all by himself ..In fact he has instilled that belief in his teammates now.. This itself is legendary IMO ...

I personally don't care whether the world recognizes him as one of the great all-rounders or not .But all I want him to do is to contribute more for his team and take BD to a respectable position. I think Shakib himself too cares less about those stats..But we all know that if he is successful to do so the stats will just follow and who knows may be one day we will see someone writing :

"In a nutshell While Bradman's status as the greatest batsman is increasingly under threat, no one raises an eyebrow at Shakib Al Sobers being called the greatest allrounder." :shakibsmile:

And yes I am with you - DREAM BIG :)

zsayeed
March 30, 2012, 09:52 PM
I personally don't care whether the world recognizes him as one of the great all-rounders or not .But all I want him to do is to contribute more for his team and take BD to a respectable position. I think Shakib himself too cares less about those stats..But we all know that if he is successful to do so the stats will just follow and who knows may be one day we will see someone writing ....


And yes I am with you - DREAM BIG:)


Thanks. Greatness, I am speaking of - and greatness occurs in the dark recesses of the heart. Not by stats. Stats will speak volumes after the event - as does Sobers'. He is capable of greatness; and to say that one does not care - is robbing of the dream. Why apologize for it ? Set the sights high. He is not on trial here, its to set a target - remember: passion starts with a belief. A lifetimes work may result in greatness. It is not out of reach... or is it?

10 years from now I want to look back at that table, and be able to say, aah what a dream we dreamt!

zsayeed
March 30, 2012, 10:10 PM
Well what do you think about Imran, should he be on that list. CI thinks so:
"In a nutshell Imran Khan is indisputably the greatest cricketer to emerge from Pakistan, and arguably the world's second-best allrounder after Garry Sobers. He took a mediocre side and transformed them into world-beaters, leading them to the World Cup title in 1992."
He has 3807 runs from 126 innings at an average of 37.69 and
362 test wickets from 88 tests.


Let me know. He batted mostly at #7 - majority.

oronnya
March 30, 2012, 10:22 PM
Thanks. Greatness, I am speaking of - and greatness occurs in the dark recesses of the heart. Not by stats. Stats will speak volumes after the event - as does Sobers'. He is capable of greatness; and to say that one does not care - is robbing of the dream. Why apologize for it ? Set the sights high. He is not on trial here, its to set a target - remember: passion starts with a belief. A lifetimes work may result in greatness. It is not out of reach... or is it?

10 years from now I want to look back at that table, and be able to say, aah what a dream we dreamt!

Yes the dream of 160 millions will definitely translate into reality someday. But my point is not to get obsessed with stats. Yeah we fans can afford to do so but not Shak. He should just concentrate on how to improve his performance right at this point. Yes I believe that you are as big/great as your dreams. This boy has always dreamt big and that's the secret of his success of course. This is the boy who at the age of 12 confronted his dad and said "I don't want to be a footballer because football won't give me the ticket to play and win world cup" his dad was astonished by his audacious dream.

But you see the reality is Shakib won't get enough matches to prove himself as one of the all time great all-rounders. That's why I said he have to prove himself in whatever limited opportunity he gets.

oronnya
March 30, 2012, 10:30 PM
Well what do you think about Imran, should he be on that list. CI thinks so:
"In a nutshell Imran Khan is indisputably the greatest cricketer to emerge from Pakistan, and arguably the world's second-best allrounder after Garry Sobers. He took a mediocre side and transformed them into world-beaters, leading them to the World Cup title in 1992."
He has 3807 runs from 126 innings at an average of 37.69 and
362 test wickets from 88 tests.


Let me know. He batted mostly at #7 - majority.

Yeah I was about to ask you to add Imran Khan ... though he was more of a bowling all-rounder , then again how many genuine all- rounders do we have in the history of cricket!!!

zsayeed
March 30, 2012, 10:34 PM
This is an excerpt from CI Profile. Sobers was a spinner and a fast medium pacer...hmm.

"As a batsman he was great, as a bowler, merely superb, but would have made the West Indies side as a bowler alone. He was remarkably versatile with the ball, bowling two styles of spin - left-arm orthodox and wrist spin, but was also a fine fast-medium opening bowler. His catching close to the wicket may have been equalled but never surpassed, and he was a brilliant fielder anywhere."

zsayeed
March 30, 2012, 10:37 PM
One thing you would notice is that Kallis and Sobers are the only all-rounders who have earned more runs than given away. May be a trivial stat...but interesting. Sobers being the more balanced - his runs earned and given away are equal almost.

This inclines me to think Sobers is the Perfect all-rounder...so far.

Gowza
March 30, 2012, 11:16 PM
I don't see Shak scoring 25 more 100s in next 75-80 games to take over Sober. May be 15 at best, JMG. As for bowling, I don't wanna look too much into it, but his stats already look better than the other 2, though of course things can and will change.

And Kallis not being talked about much doesn't mean anything to me. Being the center of discussion, "the talk," has lot to do with personality and charisma. Kallis doesn't have any popularity. Kallis is a old school, quite guy. He hardly celebrates his wickets or centuries. He played and plays along side with many exciting but less talented players, yet they were more popular among fans.

He did up his rep by getting that wig and people started to talk about it. lol

i don't mean talk from fans i mean talk from the cricket world the experts. usually whenever they talk about him it's about his batting, but i guarantee if any current player was seen to be as the all time #1 in a certain field (in this case an allrounder) then the cricket experts would at least reference it at some point and say he's the best ever but that never happens with kallis, and if it does it's more to do with his batting.

Gowza
March 30, 2012, 11:19 PM
To me a true all-rounder is someone who can make into the team both as a batsman and a bowler. Sobers definitely could, but Kallis? I don't think he makes into any current test team as a bowler. (Of the past all-rounders, the only other who could easily meet this criterion is Ian Botham.) Shakib should be able to get into any test team as a bowler. As a batsman, he should be able to make it to at least half of the test-playing nations. I don't expect him to attain Sobers' level, but he should be able to get close.

kallis was a more effective bowler in his younger days. he bowled a lot more often and bowled quicker to. nowadays his body doesn't allow it and he's such a major player in RSA's batting line-up they don't want to risk his injury. also now RSA are bringing some real genuine talented pacers out. steyn has been the best fast bowler for years now and philander is making a big mark, morkel depsite not getting wickets has always had the weaopns and de lange is a real talent so kallis is rarely needed now. they just use him to either give someone a break from bowling or if their fast men have toiled long hard hard but failed to get the wicket (doesn't happen these days) he gets brought on for an over or to kind of like steve waugh, mike hussey, ricky ponting do (of course he is a much better bowler than those guys).

Gowza
March 30, 2012, 11:26 PM
now when it comes to genuine test allrounders who could make it as batsmen or bowlers into the team, there aren't many who can on paper, stats wise.

for example ian botham i think in the books has the most 5 wicket hauls and centuries in one match, i think he's done it 4 or 5 times with the next best being only one or 2. but overall stats say he isn't the best allrounder. i always believed abdul razzaq had the potential, he was quick in his earlier days and with the bat he could dismantle any attack but his stats don't show his ability much like botham's.

as far as imran khan goes, he really is more of a bowling allrounder. stats show he was a very capable batsman a 37 average in test cricket is nothing to sneeze at but if you actually look at him bat i don't think he's quite there as a batsmen as other allrounders. i mean sobers, kallis, botham and even shakib when they bat they look like batsmen, imran almost did but not quite imo. HOWEVER, if you go through his career stats and pick out various periods of time (im talking a decade, YES, 10 years or almost 10 years) he averages 50 with the bat and 20 or under with the ball.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/40560.html?class=1;spanmin1=03+Jun+1982;spanval1=s pan;template=results;type=allround

^that's 51 matches and not far off 10 straight years. batting average of 51.6 and bowling average of 19.9 < THAT'S incredible!

in fact this if you add a couple more matches on (53 matches) his batting average was 52.77 and his bowling average was 19.
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/40560.html?class=1;spanmax1=03+Jan+1992;spanmin1=0 3+dec+1981;spanval1=span;template=results;type=all round

i don't think anyone else in histroy has been able to perform this consistently in both batting and bowling for such a lengthy period of time. on top of that he was a great captain as well.

oh and 53 test matches is more than half 0f his test career about 60% of it actually. now that's a big effort!

zsayeed
March 30, 2012, 11:58 PM
Gowza, I am impressed by your findings - and indeed Imran's stats are impressive. That 10 year segment would be the perfect all rounder performance.

Thanks for your insight.

One more thought about kallis. I don't think any cricketing authority figure can call Kallis the greatest while he is still playing... that would just be wrong. I think that can only be bestowed after a cricketers retirement. That would be proper. I think the greatness is a lifetime achievement award....and Kallis' life is still on - on the pitch.

Gowza
March 31, 2012, 01:10 AM
Gowza, I am impressed by your findings - and indeed Imran's stats are impressive. That 10 year segment would be the perfect all rounder performance.

Thanks for your insight.

One more thought about kallis. I don't think any cricketing authority figure can call Kallis the greatest while he is still playing... that would just be wrong. I think that can only be bestowed after a cricketers retirement. That would be proper. I think the greatness is a lifetime achievement award....and Kallis' life is still on - on the pitch.

i agree in one sense, but in another.....if a player is the greatest then they are the greatest. we've had soo many great allrounders since sobers but still people consider sobers the best so to find someone better than him would be quite the revelation which is why i think there would be more talk of kallis as the potential best if if people thought he was.

zinatf
March 31, 2012, 02:06 AM
To be honest, Shakib Al Hasan is not even closer to the batting average the other two greats have, but what separates him from the other two is that this boy has done the records or the feats possible within limited resources. Be it for the cricket board or because of inconsistency from his team-mates.

Of course, I wanted to see him beside these these two greats....or even better......surpass them in the years to come :)

Who knows we might witness him scoring centuries and take 5 wickets consecutively in the near future....it's cricket....anything and everything's possible :D

Zeeshan
March 31, 2012, 02:09 AM
so this thread is not about sober bedding of shakib and kallis eh

zinatf
March 31, 2012, 02:17 AM
Tomar mathai to eishob jinishpotro-i ghure

Tigers_eye
March 31, 2012, 07:52 AM
To get past Sobers, one would have to average at least 60+ in nowadays. He had led the batting charts for years.

No, Shakib cannot replace Sobers unless he averages 60 and continue taking wickets like right now. That means scoring centuries in test right and left. That is too much to ask with the support or the top order platform he needs. 26 test and 2 centuries wouldn't take him to the top five discussion. Plus he is not averaging in the 20s with the ball either.

Jack Kallis has a bigger argument but nah. Sobers was a tremendous fielder as well. Unless Kallis gets 6 more centuries before he retires meaning equaling Tendu he will not cross Sobers. Sobers was undisputed #1 batsman of the World for a long time. Kallis has competition in his team Amla let alone the World.

boka
March 31, 2012, 09:56 AM
[বাংলা]আমারে কেউ জিগাইলে সরাসরি কই ক্যালিস্ই সেরা
মজাটা হইলো ও যদি বাংলাদেশের মতো দলে খেলতো তয় কিন্ত্ত ব্যাটিং এর সাথে নিয়মিত আরও বোলিং করার সুযোগ পাইতো
আর উইকেটও পাইতো বেশীবেশী
বেচারার পোড়াকপাল যে এইরকম একটা দলে খেলে যেখানে ভুরিভুরি মারাত্বক সব বোলাররা ঝাকে ঝাকে আইতাছেই

আর কে-না জানে সোবারস্ যখন খেলছে তখন না হইতো এত্তো ঘনঘন খেলা
আর না ছিলো চটজলদি একজনের নাড়ীনক্ষত্রের বিশ্লেষনের এত্তো সুবিধা

টেস্টে সাকিব-এর একটা দারুন জায়গা করে নেওয়ার সুযোগ আছে
তয় কলার টা না উঠাইয়া লম্বা সময় সুস্হ শরীরে
আর আমাগো দেশের সংঘাতিক ( আমি দেশের ক্রিড়া সাংবাদিকদের তাই কই) গো কখনও কখনও দেয়া অতি বাতাস আর কখনও চোখা মন্তব্যগুলা হজম কইরা
আর তিরিশেই বুইড়া হইয়াগেছে এই ঝামেলার মুখে ঝাটা দিয়া টিক্কা থাকা তো চাই

আমি কই পোলাডা যদি ঠিকমতো খেলে তয় আরও ১৫ বছর সে খেলবে
আর এই সময়ে বাংলাদেশ বছরে ৬ টা টেস্ট খেলা থেকে উন্নতি কইরা ১০টায় আসতে পারবো আশাকরি
আমার হিসাবে সে যখন অবসরে যাবে তার থাকবে ৬০০+ উইকেট আর ৮০০০+ রান
যে কীর্তি-টা তার একারই হবে
তয় তার জন্য চাই অনেক অ-নে-ক খাটুনি

আর একখান কথা অলরাউন্ডার নিয়া কথা হইতাছে অথচ ৪৩৪ উইকেট আর ৫২৪৮ রানের মালিকরে বাদ দিয়া এইটা জানি কেমুন ঠেকে........ টেস্টে কিন্ত্ত ৫০০০+ রান আর ৪০০+ উইকেট পাওয়ার একটাই কীর্তি তাই না ??!!!
কপিল দেবের নামটা লিস্টিতে আসা উচিত

[/বাংলা]

lamisa
March 31, 2012, 10:07 AM
i doubt whether he will be able to get his batting avg. past 50, given how few test matches we play but bowling wise, i believe he can surpass the greatest all rounders in the world

zsayeed
March 31, 2012, 10:23 AM
[বাংলা]আমারে কেউ জিগাইলে সরাসরি কই ক্যালিস্ই সেরা
মজাটা হইলো ও যদি বাংলাদেশের মতো দলে খেলতো তয় কিন্ত্ত ব্যাটিং এর সাথে নিয়মিত আরও বোলিং করার সুযোগ পাইতো
আর উইকেটও পাইতো বেশীবেশী
বেচারার পোড়াকপাল যে এইরকম একটা দলে খেলে যেখানে ভুরিভুরি মারাত্বক সব বোলাররা ঝাকে ঝাকে আইতাছেই :up:

আর কে-না জানে সোবারস্ যখন খেলছে তখন না হইতো এত্তো ঘনঘন খেলা
আর না ছিলো চটজলদি একজনের নাড়ীনক্ষত্রের বিশ্লেষনের এত্তো সুবিধা

টেস্টে সাকিব-এর একটা দারুন জায়গা করে নেওয়ার সুযোগ আছে
তয় কলার টা না উঠাইয়া লম্বা সময় সুস্হ শরীরে
আর আমাগো দেশের সংঘাতিক ( আমি দেশের ক্রিড়া সাংবাদিকদের তাই কই) গো কখনও কখনও দেয়া অতি বাতাস আর কখনও চোখা মন্তব্যগুলা হজম কইরা
আর তিরিশেই বুইড়া হইয়াগেছে এই ঝামেলার মুখে ঝাটা দিয়া টিক্কা থাকা তো চাই :up:

আমি কই পোলাডা যদি ঠিকমতো খেলে তয় আরও ১৫ বছর সে খেলবে
আর এই সময়ে বাংলাদেশ বছরে ৬ টা টেস্ট খেলা থেকে উন্নতি কইরা ১০টায় আসতে পারবো আশাকরি
আমার হিসাবে সে যখন অবসরে যাবে তার থাকবে ৬০০+ উইকেট আর ৮০০০+ রান
যে কীর্তি-টা তার একারই হবে
তয় তার জন্য চাই অনেক অ-নে-ক খাটুনি

আর একখান কথা অলরাউন্ডার নিয়া কথা হইতাছে অথচ ৪৩৪ উইকেট আর ৫২৪৮ রানের মালিকরে বাদ দিয়া এইটা জানি কেমুন ঠেকে........ টেস্টে কিন্ত্ত ৫০০০+ রান আর ৪০০+ উইকেট পাওয়ার একটাই কীর্তি তাই না ??!!!
কপিল দেবের নামটা লিস্টিতে আসা উচিত

[/বাংলা]

Boka Bhai, I love reading your stuff. Thanks.
Kapil added thanks.

Nadim
March 31, 2012, 11:07 AM
Sober who? the guy who only played 1 ODI in his entire career?:lol:


Kallis is miles ahead.

Shakib next in line(not yet) but will be end of his career:)

zsayeed
March 31, 2012, 11:26 PM
Sober who? the guy who only played 1 ODI in his entire career?:lol:


Kallis is miles ahead.

Shakib next in line(not yet) but will be end of his career:)

You mean Sir Sobers who? right?

Dilscoop
April 1, 2012, 12:18 AM
the guy who only played 1 ODI in his entire career?:lol:


And that's his fault how? Or why should THAT lower his credibility? You do realize by the time he retired WI only had played 7/8 ODI's? And only 30ish ODIs overall across the world?

Ajfar
April 1, 2012, 01:17 AM
^ plus test cricket is where you leave you mark. Ask Dravid, Tendu, Gilchrist, Ponting or any of the other legends who played hundreds of ODI and Test, they will you Test is the ultimate form of cricket.

simon
April 2, 2012, 03:53 PM
SAkib is the best AR of His era, and he will be one of the all time best AR for sure.
What is best about him is that although BD has been a weak side and don't play that much cricket he still managed to be the n°1 in both ODI & Test.

Nadim
April 2, 2012, 04:07 PM
Concentratin In one format of the game is way too easy than concentrating in all three formats and making plans at the same time. And the amount of kallis plays cricket in a year, sobers is no way near him IMHO.

And thanks for. The info dillu.
<br />Posted via BC Mobile Edition (Blackberry)

Navo
April 2, 2012, 05:18 PM
Kallis plays more cricket and more forms of cricket, but Sobers was much more versatile. He had an appetite for massive scores (Kallis has only crossed 200 for the first time recently); was flamboyant and aggressive in an era where few were; had an average that would be worth 60+ in this era of thicker bats, better wickets, better fitness training etc; could bowl two different types of spin AND fast-medium; was a great fielder all over the field, etc etc. Not to mention the fact that he also represented Barbados in other sports like Basketball.

Sir Sobers is still the definition of an 'all rounder'

zsayeed
April 10, 2012, 10:57 AM
Don't get to see this too often - albeit a T20, but I wanted to keep track of this. I hope we get too see the two together more often.

Kallis and Shakib played for KKR today against RCB,
Kallis - 22/23/3/1/95.65 (R/B/4/6/SR)
Shakib - 4/4/0/0/100.00

Bowling:
Kallis - 2/0/7/2/3.5 (Wickets/Maidens/Runs/Overs/Average)
Shakib - 3/0/21/3/7.0

Kallis got the two openers - Pujara and Gayle, bowled overs 1 and 3
Shakib got Kumar and Patel - #s 8, 9 having bowled overs 15, 17, 19
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kallis - 1, Shakib - 0

boka
April 11, 2012, 07:43 AM
[বাংলা]গতকাইলকা কলকাতার খেলা দেখতে গিয়া এক সময় মনে হইলো ......
রাস্তা দিয়া হাইট্টা যাইতাছি তার মধ্যে হঠাৎ বেল্টটা ফা্ইট্টা প্যান্টা ধপাস্ কইরা প্ইরা গেছে গা
রাস্তা ভর্তি মাইনসের সামনে এইটা ঘটলে যে শরমের মধ্যে পরতে হইতো তাই যেন হইলো
কখন এমন-টা মনে হইছে যারা খেলা-টা দেখছেন তারা তো বুইঝ্ঝাই গেছেন মনে হয় এরই মধ্যে [/বাংলা]

zsayeed
April 11, 2012, 10:25 AM
Boka Bhai, apnar lekhar style is classic. Always love it as usual.
Pathos so well felt through such allegoric writing!

zsayeed
April 12, 2012, 07:42 AM
'Being an allrounder is taxing but the rewards are double'
Part one: Jacques Kallis talks about the challenges of being a batsman and a bowler, and the secret of his success (04:57)
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/video_audio/560517.html
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zsayeed
April 12, 2012, 07:46 AM
Says being an allrounder is very demanding

Shakib is coming off a productive year, in which he averaged 44 with the bat and 29 with the ball in ODIs and 50 and 29 with bat and ball respectively in Tests. In Bangladesh's stirring showing in the just-concluded Asia Cup he made 64, 49, 56 and 68. However, he admitted that the responsibility on him as an allrounder was not always easy to deal with and that there is still room for improvement.

"Personally, I want to improve by finishing matches for the team," he said. "My bowling isn't going that well too. It's difficult to keep both going, batting and bowling. I feel that it is hard to concentrate on both in training. I have seen that if I take one discipline and work on it, it gets better. But to work on both is a bit difficult. It is a problem at times [as an allrounder], so there's a lot of room to work hard."

http://www.espncricinfo.com/bangladesh/content/story/559324.html

BANFAN
April 12, 2012, 04:48 PM
Promising but a looong way to go for Shakib......

Tigers_eye
April 12, 2012, 07:06 PM
Sober who? the guy who only played 1 ODI in his entire career?:lol:


Kallis is miles ahead.

Shakib next in line(not yet) but will be end of his career:)
Chi Nadim chi!! Tumi tomar eklar nak kato nai. Amader shobar nak katso ei ekta post'r moddhey. Cannot expect a post like this from the highest poster of BC. You should have weight on your posts.

Ignorance cannot be an excuse. By the way, Sobers wouldn't have any problem playing in today's 20 over matches. He is the one who scored 6 sixes in an over of a test match.

To those who played against and with him, for many he is even better than Bradman and a complete cricketer. Do you know the significance of that comment? Comprende Bro (son)?

Many years after retiring Bradman himself included only one player in his ultimate test XI from a different era. That was Sobers.
+++
Sobers were included in to the WI test squad as a fast bowler at the age of 17. He bowled SLA and Chinaman as well later down his career depending on the pitch but primarily he was a pacer. At the age of 21 he scored a triple hundred.

Before Gayle destroyed opponent bowlers overseas domestic cricket and ENTERTAINED the fans, Sobers did so for South Australia and in the county as well. I mentioned Gayle cause you would know him since you follow BigBash, BPL, IPL etc.

There are elite alrounders (Imran, Botham, Hadlee, Kapil) and there is Sobers. The gap in between them is huge. Kallis, Shakib, Watson needs to win something big or hold a worthy world record to even get to the elite.

zsayeed
April 13, 2012, 01:06 PM
2nd game in which Shakib and Kallis featured together for KKR against
Kallis bat: 31/38/3/0/81.57; bowl: 3/0/26/0
Shakib bat: 16/10/1/1/160.00; bowl: 4/0/17/3 and MoM
http://www.espncricinfo.com/indian-premier-league-2012/engine/match/548320.html

Shakib - 2; Kallis - 1 @ IPL5

http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff430/zsayeed/shakkkk.jpghttp://p.imgci.com/db/PICTURES/CMS/144600/144683.5.jpg

simon
April 13, 2012, 03:12 PM
Chi Nadim chi!! Tumi tomar eklar nak kato nai. Amader shobar nak katso ei ekta post'r moddhey. Cannot expect a post like this from the highest poster of BC. You should have weight on your posts.

Ignorance cannot be an excuse. By the way, Sobers wouldn't have any problem playing in today's 20 over matches. He is the one who scored 6 sixes in an over of a test match.

To those who played against and with him, for many he is even better than Bradman and a complete cricketer. Do you know the significance of that comment? Comprende Bro (son)?

Many years after retiring Bradman himself included only one player in his ultimate test XI from a different era. That was Sobers.
+++
Sobers were included in to the WI test squad as a fast bowler at the age of 17. He bowled SLA and Chinaman as well later down his career depending on the pitch but primarily he was a pacer. At the age of 21 he scored a triple hundred.

Before Gayle destroyed opponent bowlers overseas domestic cricket and ENTERTAINED the fans, Sobers did so for South Australia and in the county as well. I mentioned Gayle cause you would know him since you follow BigBash, BPL, IPL etc.

There are elite alrounders (Imran, Botham, Hadlee, Kapil) and there is Sobers. The gap in between them is huge. Kallis, Shakib, Watson needs to win something big or hold a worthy world record to even get to the elite.

Sakib Sobers er shomoy cricket khelle Sobers er bhaat marto. :lol: :doh:
<br />Posted via BC Mobile Edition (Android)

zsayeed
April 13, 2012, 05:30 PM
^ Agey Shakibkey ekta triple-century kortey den! (http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/62837.html)

Just one.

oronnya
April 13, 2012, 05:40 PM
^ Agey Shakibkey ekta triple-century kortey den! (http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/62837.html)

Just one.

Shakib to ekhon o double century o kore nai :)

tobe hobe hobe .. Inshallah !!

al-Sagar
April 13, 2012, 10:50 PM
Don't get to see this too often - albeit a T20, but I wanted to keep track of this. I hope we get too see the two together more often.

Kallis and Shakib played for KKR today against RCB,
Kallis - 22/23/3/1/95.65 (R/B/4/6/SR)
Shakib - 4/4/0/0/100.00

Bowling:
Kallis - 2/0/7/2/3.5 (Wickets/Maidens/Runs/Overs/Average)
Shakib - 3/0/21/3/7.0

Kallis got the two openers - Pujara and Gayle, bowled overs 1 and 3
Shakib got Kumar and Patel - #s 8, 9 having bowled overs 15, 17, 19
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kallis - 1, Shakib - 0

i think after yesterdays performance now its shakib 1 - kallis 1 ... or should we award shakib a bonus point for being the MOM ???

zsayeed
April 14, 2012, 12:53 AM
i think after yesterdays performance now its shakib 1 - kallis 1 ... or should we award shakib a bonus point for being the MOM ???

i did :)
2 to 1

zsayeed
April 15, 2012, 07:53 PM
3rd game for Kallis and Shakib in IPL5 for KKR against Punjab
http://www.espncricinfo.com/indian-premier-league-2012/engine/match/548323.html
Dismal performance from KKR

Kallis bat: 1/5/0/0; bowl: 4/0/30/0
Shakib bat: 4/8/0/0; bowl: 4/0/26/1

Although Shakib did better with the ball (and theoretically with bat) I will not give any of them any points.

Still, Shakib - 2; Kallis - 1 @ IPL5

zsayeed
May 5, 2012, 01:08 PM
Bishen Bedi on Sir Garfield Sobers (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbAmbWp0WHc)
"[Sobers] Was God's own contribution to world cricket"
"God must have made in His very, very, spare time."
"He had everything...athleticism, he could bowl fast, bowl slow, bat in Any position...and destroy the opposition."
Sobers batted in positions 2 through 9. He could bowl two styles of spin - left-arm orthodox and wrist spin, and of course fast-medium opening bowling, and a brilliant fielder!

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An allrounder like no other (http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/491636.html)
http://www.espncricinfo.com/db/PICTURES/CMS/87200/87255.2.jpg
Garry Sobers: the only allrounder to score 300-plus runs and take 20 or more wickets in a Test series three times

First there is Sir Garry Sobers, and then there are all the other great allrounders in Test cricket. Sir Don Bradman unquestionably qualifies as the best batsman ever seen in Tests, but several pundits are willing to bet that in terms of all-round match-winning ability, none has surpassed - and perhaps no one ever will - the sublime Sobers.

Bradman himself called Sobers the "five-in-one cricketer", and with good reason: apart from being an outstanding batsman and fielder, Sobers the bowler was so versatile that he could bowl three different styles - left-arm seam and swing, slow left-arm orthodox, and left-arm wrist spin. Sobers' skills with the ball allowed West Indies to often play an extra batsman - in fact, it was almost as if they were playing with 12 members in the team.

Sobers' leading suit, though, was his ability with bat in hand. He finished with an average of almost 58, and even that doesn't do full justice to his skills. Throughout his career, Sobers never particularly bothered with trivialities like stats and numbers, which make his achievements even more remarkable. It's astonishing that even after scoring at a rate that most specialist batsmen couldn't keep pace with, Sobers still had enough talent to spare to go ahead and take 235 Test wickets at a bowling average of less than 35.
MORE (http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/491636.html)

Unlike a Sachin Tendulkar, though, Sobers didn't immediately set the world on fire when he entered Test cricket. For the first three years or so he was fairly ordinary, with only one half-century to show in his first 15 innings. The first sign of his truly precocious talent came during the course of a resounding defeat at the hands of England at The Oval in the summer of 1957. In extremely difficult batting conditions, in which West Indies were bundled out for 89 and 86 in their two innings, Sobers scored 39 and 42. No other West Indian batsman touched 30 in either innings.

From 1958, Sobers' batting graph soared. In only his third Test of the year, against Pakistan in Kingston, he scored a monumental unbeaten 365. It was the record for the highest Test score, and stayed that way for the next 36 years, which is the longest any batsman has held this record. His career average shot up almost 15 runs after that one innings, and in his next Test it touched 50 for the first time, from where it never dipped below 50 again. In fact, from the beginning of 1959 to the end of his career in 1974, his average never went below 56.

And then, of course, were his knocks outside of Test cricket. One of his finest batting displays - one that the Don said was "the greatest exhibition of batting ever seen in Australia", came at the MCG in 1972, when Sobers, playing for World XI, destroyed an Australian attack that included a rampant Dennis Lillee on the way to 254. Lillee had taken 8 for 29 in the previous Test, and had dismissed Sobers first ball in the first innings in Melbourne, but in the second innings Lillee finished a distant second-best, as Sobers cut and drove him to distraction. A few years earlier, a much lesser bowler, Glamorgan's Malcolm Nash, had been at the receiving end when Sobers spanked him for six sixes in an over, the first time it had ever happened in first-class cricket.

As a bowler, Sobers' stats aren't as stunning, but he was more than handy with his ability to bowl various styles. His peak period as a bowler was understandably much shorter, but during the eight years between 1961 and 1968, he was quite a handful, averaging less than 28 and taking almost four wickets per Test.

In fact, his bowling career can be divided into three distinct parts: till 1960, he bowled quite sparingly, taking only 43 wickets in 34 matches, without a single five-for. Then came the best passage for him as a bowler, during which period he delivered two of his most incisive performances: at Headingley in 1966 he returned figures of 5 for 41 and 3 for 39 to help West Indies win by an innings; at the Gabba a couple of years later, his orthodox left-arm spin was good enough to give him a second-innings haul of 6 for 73 and bundle Australia out for 240 as they chased 366 for victory.

More than most other cricketers, Sobers was able to, on more than one occasion, deliver his excellence with bat and ball in the same series. Scoring 300 runs and taking 20 wickets in a series is no mean feat - it's only been achieved 15 times in the entire history of Test cricket - but Sobers managed it three times on his own, twice against England, and once against India. The Australian allrounder Keith Miller did it twice, but no one else has achieved it more than once. Ian Botham, Kapil Dev, Richard Hadlee and Shaun Pollock were among those who did it once each, while Imran Khan didn't even achieve it once.

Overall, Sobers' all-round numbers are outstanding - his batting average is nearly 24 more than his bowling average. In terms of this differential, only Jacques Kallis of South Africa has a slightly higher difference.

Excluding the first three years of his Test career, when Sobers was still finding his feet in international cricket, he averaged nearly 63 in 79 matches, which was easily the best during that period. England's Ken Barrington was the only other batsman whose average was close to 60. Even Sobers' overall career average of 57.78 is among the very best: with a cut-off of 3000 runs, only five batsmen have done better.

And in the eight years when Sobers was at the peak on his bowling powers, he was among the best in that aspect too: only three bowlers took more than 100 wickets at an averge lower than Sobers' 27.93. West Indies had a pretty useful attack during that period too: Wes Hall and Charlie Griffith took care of the fast-bowling duties, while Lance Gibbs was the number one spinner. Since Sobers obviously wasn't the leading fast bowler or spinner, he was more of a support act, and hence seldom got the opportunity to bowl fast with the wind or slow against it. Later in his career with West Indies' fast-bowling resources dwindling, Sobers bowled long spells with defensive fields, but he managed that too without his bowling stats suffering too much.


As a captain Sobers was a mixed bag. Of the nine series he led in, West Indies won three, but those were the first three series he captained. In 1966 in England, especially, Sobers was immense: in five Tests Sobers scored 722 runs, including three hundreds, at an average of 103.14, and took 20 wickets at 27.25. At Lord's in the second Test he played arguably his greatest innings: his unbeaten 163 helped turn around a first-innings deficit of 86 and helped West Indies recover from a precipitous 95 for 5 in the second innings. With David Holford, who made an unbeaten 105, Sobers added an undefeated 274 for the sixth wicket. He scored another century at Headingley and starred with both bat and ball in that game.

Thereafter, though, his captaincy stock fell, especially when his reckless declaration at Port of Spain leading to an England win in a Test in which they took only nine wickets.

Despite the pressures of captaincy, Sobers' batting standards remained high, with an average of almost 59 in the 39 Tests he led in. Among captains who've scored at least 3000 runs, only Don Bradman has a higher average.


Some of Sobers' most memorable innings came against England. From 36 Tests against them, Sobers scored 3214 runs, which accounts for 40% of his total aggregate. He played eight full series against them, and averaged more than 75 in four of them. His poorest series against England was his last one, in which he managed only 100 runs from five innings, including scores of 0, 0 and 20 in his last three innings. Despite that, he finished with a 60-plus average against them, which is among the highest for any batsman who's scored more than 2000 runs versus England.

And unlike some of the current batsmen who are much greater batsmen in the first innings than the second, Sobers had no such problem. Even in the fourth innings of matches, Sobers managed an average of almost 47. Apart from that unbeaten 163 at Lord's mentioned earlier, one of his most meaningful second-innings contributions came against India in Kanpur in 1958. Both teams had been bowled out for 222 in their first innings, and in their second, West Indies were struggling at 83 for 4 when Sobers struck a magnificent 198 to lift them to 443, a target which turned out to be well beyond India in their second innings.

Sobers' overall second-innings average of 55.15 is the second-highest among batsmen with 2500 runs; only Jacques Kallis of South Africa has done better.

http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff430/zsayeed/s1.jpg

boka
May 5, 2012, 11:55 PM
[বাংলা]দুনিয়াতে ঐ কিছিম মানুষ ভুরী-ভুরী যাগো কাছে তার বাচ্চা সময়টারেই মনে হয় দারুন ভালাছিলো
অথচ কে না জানে এই যে বড়বেলা এইটাতেই না নিজের মতো কইরা কত্তো কি করা যাইতাছে
বাচ্চা বেলায় মন যা চায় তা করতে চাইলোও করা যায় নাই বাচ্চা বইলা মা-বাপের শাসনে
তবুও বেশীর ভাগই কইবো আহারে সেই দিনগুলা......

সোবার্স দারুন মানি তয় সেরা ক্যালিসই
যে চাপের মধ্যে যে পরিমান এখন খেলতে হয় তা সহয্য কইরা
প্রতিপক্ষের ভিডিও বিশ্লেষন-টিশ্লেষনের খেতাপুইড়া যে খেলাটা খেলছে
এই টা মারাত্বক........

[/বাংলা]

Tigers_eye
May 6, 2012, 08:37 AM
No player in current day and age can meet the opponent the night before the test and declare that he would score a century the next day and do it.

Sobers did it at Australia at the rum-punch party. Believe it since it came from an opposition's mouth who were present.

Kothakar kon tuk tuk Kallis tarey niya abar kotha.

boka
May 6, 2012, 10:52 PM
no player in current day and age can meet the opponent the night before the test and declare that he would score a century the next day and do it.

Sobers did it at australia at the rum-punch party. Believe it since it came from an opposition's mouth who were present.

kothakar kon tuk tuk kallis tarey niya abar kotha.

[বাংলা]এক জনরে বড় কইতে গিয়া আরেক জনেরে টা্ইনা নামানির ধংসাত্বক মানসিকতা আমাদের অবশ্যই ত্যাগ করতে হইবো...

এইডা অতি খারাপ এবং শরমের কাজ এ্ইডা আমাগো বুঝতে হইবো তা-ই না...
[/বাংলা]

Tigers_eye
May 7, 2012, 06:57 AM
[বাংলা]এক জনরে বড় কইতে গিয়া আরেক জনেরে টা্ইনা নামানির ধংসাত্বক মানসিকতা আমাদের অবশ্যই ত্যাগ করতে হইবো...

এইডা অতি খারাপ এবং শরমের কাজ এ্ইডা আমাগো বুঝতে হইবো তা-ই না...
[/বাংলা]
[বাংলা]হায় আল্লাহ!! আমি কই যাই? ম্যেডামদের কাছ থেকে তো এই শিকলাম। তবে টুক টুক কথা টা একদম ঠিক!! বীশ অভারের গেমে স্টাইক রেট এক শো'র একটু উপরে। এই রকম প্লেয়ার ঢাকা'র ওলি-গোলি তে পাওয়া যায়।[/বাংলা]

There is Sobers and the rest is not even in the same planet.

playmaker
May 7, 2012, 06:59 AM
I wish sakib will become of the same level but atm he is a lot far. Knowing shakib, some more hard work and he can def. get there in 5 years

boka
May 10, 2012, 09:34 PM
[বাংলা]হায় আল্লাহ!! আমি কই যাই? ম্যেডামদের কাছ থেকে তো এই শিকলাম। তবে টুক টুক কথা টা একদম ঠিক!! বীশ অভারের গেমে স্টাইক রেট এক শো'র একটু উপরে। এই রকম প্লেয়ার ঢাকা'র ওলি-গোলি তে পাওয়া যায়।[/বাংলা]

there is sobers and the rest is not even in the same planet.


[বাংলা] অন্যের খারাপ টাই যদি শিক্ষা ফেলাই তো আর নিজের ভালো থাকা হইলো কই

পরের ছেলেমানুষী কথাডার উত্তর না দেই...

[/বাংলা]

zsayeed
June 19, 2012, 06:16 PM
'Best allrounder after Sobers' (http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/video_audio/567705.html)
Part nine: Jacques Kallis was a batsman Wasim Akram dismissed only once in his career (04:06)
Producer: Ranjit Shinde
June 19, 2012

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http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff430/zsayeed/jk.jpg

zsayeed
November 24, 2012, 02:51 PM
November 24th 2012, Adelaide:
92.6
Siddle to Kallis, no run, dropped it short, more pain, ducks under it again and he's in plenty of discomfort out in the middle.
Kallis is in pain as he plays each delivery, with the debutant Du Plessis at the other end.

November 24th 2012, Khulna

56.1
Permaul to Shakib Al Hasan, OUT, how do you describe that, he's gone! This is a brain-freeze moment, batting on one of the better made near-centuries you would see, Shakib goes down the track and tries to slog Permaul away, he does not get it off the middle of the bat and the top edge of the bat and flies up to mid-off for a simple catch.

Country vs. Personal Milestone

Navo
November 24, 2012, 04:34 PM
Country vs. Personal Milestone

Err...I dunno whether I would simply say that he was selfish. Shakib was due to go to under the knife before this series but he chose not to, just so that he could play for Bangladesh. It might not be as visceral an injury as the one Kallis suffered but it must be pretty severe if it requires surgery.

In any case, there is no doubt that Kallis is the better batsmen. No one would dare say that. Shakib is likely to pass him in the wickets tally though, if all goes well and he has a full career. Whether his bowling improves or not, BD's dependence on him will mean that he will bowl 50 overs an innings so as to get 4-5 wickets.

simon
November 24, 2012, 05:10 PM
Shakib performs despite gruelling workload
http://www.espncricinfo.com/bangladesh-v-west-indies-2012/content/current/story/592828.html

Shakib wasn't able to speak to reporters after the day's play because he had reportedly injured his right shin and needed a scan. A man of few words, it is unlikely Shakib would have been able to convey what he felt after breaking Mohammad Rafique's record of 100 Test wickets, and after missing his third century.

Not long after he had completed his 52nd over, Shakib was needed in the middle once again, because of what transpired in the first 45 minutes of Bangladesh's innings. The standout aspect of Shakib's innings was how he did not get flustered by the happenings around him. After watching senior batsman Shahriar Nafees and his captain Mushfiqur Rahim fall to terrible shots, Shakib began a 144-run association with Nasir Hossain.

"I didn't think of celebrating 100 wickets. I was just relieved that I finally started getting wickets today," Shakib said. "I was forcing myself to bowl better today."

The responsibilities Shakib performs for Bangladesh can be a drain on physical and mental strength. The size of his workload also poses an injury risk. Shakib, however, will have to carry on.

enough said !

BANFAN
November 24, 2012, 05:50 PM
Such threads are just jokes at the moment and utter ignorance of BD fans and off course disgrace for those greats. If Sobers or Kallis was from BD and Shakb from any third country...BD fans would have spammed to freeze the site for opening such thread.

No doubt, he is still the best player we have.

BengaliPagol
November 24, 2012, 06:14 PM
Kallis is too good with the bat.

zsayeed
November 24, 2012, 09:57 PM
Kallis was making a killing with the ball in Adelaide on 1st day until he got his injury and could not return and was only able to bat at 7 due to his absence. He will not be able to bowl this test and may miss the next one. But he bore the pain and batted on in the 1st innings.

NoName
November 24, 2012, 09:59 PM
This thread.....lol

zsayeed
November 24, 2012, 10:21 PM
This thread.....lol

keno bhai ... ki kharap kowa hoisey ai thread - e?

Habib
November 24, 2012, 10:45 PM
Give this thread a break.
Pleeeeeease *girly voice*
<br />Posted via BC Mobile Edition (Android)

zsayeed
November 25, 2012, 12:42 AM
Give this thread a break.
Pleeeeeease *girly voice*
<br />Posted via BC Mobile Edition (Android)

sorry, can't oblige. it started when shakib became number one test all rounder after Kallis and I like keeping up with the comparisons. One phrase for Shakib - Noblesse Oblige.

BANFAN
November 25, 2012, 04:49 AM
sorry, can't oblige. it started when shakib became number one test all rounder after Kallis and I like keeping up with the comparisons. One phrase for Shakib - Noblesse Oblige.

Adding that phrase to thread heading would have made lot more sense...:)

BrianLara7
November 25, 2012, 04:21 PM
I would love to know what the people are smoking who compare Shakib with the great Kallis never mind Sir gary sobers who is arguably the greatest cricketer ever after Sir Don Bradman.

MyRoom
November 25, 2012, 06:53 PM
I agree with you but Kallis is more of a specialist batsman than an all-rounder I mean if you compare both his batting and bowling together, there's a big gap between the two. Shakib is a proper all-rounder who does justice equally to both batting and bowling. According to his stats, it obviously suggests that he's neither a specialist batsman nor a specialist bowler, just a genuine proper good all-rounder.

BrianLara7
November 25, 2012, 07:28 PM
I agree with you but Kallis is more of a specialist batsman than an all-rounder I mean if you compare both his batting and bowling together, there's a big gap between the two. Shakib is a proper all-rounder who does justice equally to both batting and bowling. According to his stats, it obviously suggests that he's neither a specialist batsman nor a specialist bowler, just a genuine proper good all-rounder.

Picking up close to 300 wickets in test cricket (not too many have reached over 300) is pretty good for a so called specialist batsman.

dark mage
November 26, 2012, 12:07 AM
I love Shaqib but I just don't get how people even dare to compare him to Kallis, let alone the great Sobers.

Also dont forget how we don't even Play enough tests and the way things are going we might even get kicked out of the test teams for good in which case Shaqib will have the same fate as Eddie Barlow, Graeme pollock and the other south African greats of the time who never even had the chance

dark mage
November 26, 2012, 12:17 AM
November 24th 2012, Adelaide:
92.6
Siddle to Kallis, no run, dropped it short, more pain, ducks under it again and he's in plenty of discomfort out in the middle.
Kallis is in pain as he plays each delivery, with the debutant Du Plessis at the other end.

November 24th 2012, Khulna

56.1
Permaul to Shakib Al Hasan, OUT, how do you describe that, he's gone! This is a brain-freeze moment, batting on one of the better made near-centuries you would see, Shakib goes down the track and tries to slog Permaul away, he does not get it off the middle of the bat and the top edge of the bat and flies up to mid-off for a simple catch.

Country vs. Personal Milestone

I love your post. And that is exactly what seperates our superman from the great Kallis.

MyRoom
November 26, 2012, 07:58 AM
Picking up close to 300 wickets in test cricket (not too many have reached over 300) is pretty good for a so called specialist batsman.

Kallis has played far too many matches that's why how many 5 wicket hauls has he achieved in 150 test matches? then compare it with Shakib then you see what I was talking about.

simon
November 26, 2012, 08:10 AM
I agree with you but Kallis is more of a specialist batsman than an all-rounder I mean if you compare both his batting and bowling together, there's a big gap between the two. Shakib is a proper all-rounder who does justice equally to both batting and bowling. According to his stats, it obviously suggests that he's neither a specialist batsman nor a specialist bowler, just a genuine proper good all-rounder.
exactly.
I find it unfair to both Sak and Kallis.
they dont really play the same role.
and also Kallis has been playing for such a long time,at that time Sakib probably thought he will become afootballer..lol.
its better to compare him to the all rounders of his era or his age who ppays a similar role as Sak does.
like Watson or Angelo Mathews or even Shoaib M and Afridi. and offcourse Mo Hapiz.
For the same reason as Kallis I wont bring Jayasuriya into this either who was more of a batsman and a very senior player.
<br />Posted via BC Mobile Edition (Android)

BrianLara7
November 26, 2012, 11:53 AM
Kallis has played far too many matches that's why how many 5 wicket hauls has he achieved in 150 test matches? then compare it with Shakib then you see what I was talking about.

They both have similar bowling averages. And the difference between their batting average is more than 20.

zsayeed
November 26, 2012, 04:38 PM
( at the risk of getting a warning, but for completeness' sake)

Shakib (for nation in all formats at 25 years of age ) bowled (http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/56143.html?class=11;filter=advanced;orderby=defaul t;spanmax1=26+Nov+2012;spanmin1=26+Nov+2011;spanva l1=span;template=results;type=bowling) 294 overs in last 12 months and faced (http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/56143.html?class=11;filter=advanced;orderby=defaul t;spanmax1=26+Nov+2012;spanmin1=26+Nov+2011;spanva l1=span;template=results;type=batting) 1156 balls in last 12 months.

Comparing to the other all-rounder ( a fast medium guy and great batsman - JK for nation in all formats at 37 years of age)
He bowled (http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/45789.html?class=11;spanmax1=26+Nov+2012;spanmin1= 26+Nov+2011;spanval1=span;template=results;type=bo wling) 183 overs at fast medium pace and faced (http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/45789.html?class=11;spanmax1=26+Nov+2012;spanmin1= 26+Nov+2011;spanval1=span;template=results;type=ba tting) 1970 balls.

And a footnote: The comparison is justified as both have been dancing around the #1 AR spot in ICC test rankings for the last year, including Watson, plus the thread was to sober up the competition - hence Sober-ing ala Sobers; but recently I have heard commies on SKY comparing Kallis to Sobers. )