Bengali Nationalism. Where do you stand?

[Roey Haque]

Ayo,
What's kicking Tiger fans worldwide?

I thought it would be interesting to know all your viewpoints on Bengali nationalism. As an avid lover of history, I'm always correcting revisionists on the net who claim that we simply seceded from Pakistan with the help of India, and that there was no prior age long discrimination inflicted upon us. I feel it is a duty of mine to do so to being a full blooded Bengali.

And worse still, these ignorant people with driven agendas always make it a point to stress that us and the Pakistanis are Muslim brothers, and how the Hindus created a rift between us. Non sense! It isn't even a question about religion, I will take a bullet for a Bengali whether he's Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Jew or even athiest. And fact of the matter is, brothers don't inflict genocide upon one another like what the Pak army did to us starting with "operation searchlight."

Which brings me to the point, I always envisioned an united Bengal, with west bengal and Bangladesh together. It would be beautiful. Our cricketing team might've improved slightly, and without doubt we would have an excellent soccer team as west bengal is one power hubs of Asian soccer.

What are your views? Discuss in details. I've scrounged through these forums recently, and the folks seem very intelligent and it is not beyond you to engage in such ideological concepts.

Peace out,

Roey

[bujhee kom]

Aiyo Roey dada!! Kicking the can bahiyo Roey!!@!

I am right there with you! Eastside West side, epar Bangla Opar Bangla, amra shobai Bangali Kobi aar Maajhi aar Kreeshok! SHobar Upor Bangla Maa Shotto Tahar Uporey nai!

Peace Out!!

BK

[Navo]

Roey, do you live in Bangladesh or elsewhere? There has been a lot of discussion on this topic in the Forget Cricket section and I'd recommend going through some of the older threads. I'd particularly recommend getting hold of some of the books and articles mentioned. Here are a few of the more recent ones to get you going:-

'Hasina and Khaleda': http://www.banglacricket.com/alochona/showthread.php?t=40535

'Your thoughts about Young Politicians/Leaders of Bangladesh': http://www.banglacricket.com/alochona/showthread.php?t=39897

'Where are we after 40 years? What can we do to make it better?': http://www.banglacricket.com/alochona/showthread.php?t=39514

Part of my uni dissertation was on this topic, so I can recommend a few more books and articles if you're really interested. PM me if so.

[Zunaid]

Ah yes. Every Bangladesh crntric Internet forum goes through multiple iterations on discussions on Pan Bengali Lebensraum and rehashing the what ifs of the proposed Bangistan. Go do a gander on the first Bangladesh forum from the usenet era soc.culture.bangladesh now under the loving care of Google groups.

[Roey Haque]

Ah yes. Every Bangladesh crntric Internet forum goes through multiple iterations on discussions on Pan Bengali Lebensraum and rehashing the what ifs of the proposed Bangistan. Go do a gander on the first Bangladesh forum from the usenet era soc.culture.bangladesh now under the loving care of Google groups.

I wish I had that much patience to go through them! LOL. This was just my way of letting this forum know where I stand.

Peace out,

Roey

[Roey Haque]

Roey, do you live in Bangladesh or elsewhere? There has been a lot of discussion on this topic in the Forget Cricket section and I'd recommend going through some of the older threads. I'd particularly recommend getting hold of some of the books and articles mentioned. Here are a few of the more recent ones to get you going:-

'Hasina and Khaleda': http://www.banglacricket.com/alochona/showthread.php?t=40535

'Your thoughts about Young Politicians/Leaders of Bangladesh': http://www.banglacricket.com/alochona/showthread.php?t=39897

'Where are we after 40 years? What can we do to make it better?': http://www.banglacricket.com/alochona/showthread.php?t=39514

Part of my uni dissertation was on this topic, so I can recommend a few more books and articles if you're really interested. PM me if so.

Thanks for the links, but these topics are generally more wide spanned. Don't believe I have the patience to read them. I'm not talking leaders here, nor politicians today, nor proposed solutions to nation building. I'm just letting people know my standing ground on Bengali nationalism.

Your thesis was on Bengali nationalism, that's cool. Did you make any historical references beginning from Raja Ram Mohan Roy? That type of shyt interests me.

Peace out,

Roey

[Zunaid]

I wish I had that much patience to go through them! LOL. This was just my way of letting this forum know where I stand.

Peace out,

Roey

So would you have the patience to read others' response in this thread? Or are you doing the net equivalent of walking around with the streets with a sandwich board? Not conducive to a discussion in a discussion thread, no?

[Shehwar]

Bangladeshi! That's where I stand. And I couldn't care less about Calcutta (Just because most are Bengali) or Pakistan (Just because most are Muslims)! No offence intended in any shape or form ofcourse. For me it's about Bangladesh and Bangladeshis.

[Roey Haque]

Or are you doing the net equivalent of walking around with the streets with a sandwich board?

Couldn't have said it better myself. Yes I am doing just that. It's much easier this way since delving in too deep into those discussions would mean encountering lots of unwanted subjects themes, topics and rants. This is more direct. Just carving out a niche involving just revisionism bashing and an United Bengal. Absolutely nothing more!

Peace out,

Roey

[Navo]

What are your views? Discuss in details. I've scrounged through these forums recently, and the folks seem very intelligent and it is not beyond you to engage in such ideological concepts.

Slightly pointless to say this then, isn't it?

[Roey Haque]

Slightly pointless to say this then, isn't it?

Yeah, my bad. I guess I took protective measures to get people pumped, but wasn't really necessary as I was just looking for one liners, just one's opinion of the matter.

Great to see you do your job as a moderator. Digging this hardball style.

Peace out,

Roey

[Roey Haque]

Bangladeshi! That's where I stand. And I couldn't care less about Calcutta (Just because most are Bengali) or Pakistan (Just because most are Muslims)! No offence intended in any shape or form ofcourse. For me it's about Bangladesh and Bangladeshis.

Hmmm, sweet perspective! I really didn't consider it that way. I guess I just have a strong bonding with Calcutta, having been there many times as well as having an aunt from there.

Peace out,

Roey

[Purbasha T]

Well, I'm a bit hesitant on emphasising too much on one's nationality, something I had no control over. So yes we used to be part of the greater India, a name we had back then as much right to as say people from Gujrat, or Tamilnadu. Then, we were the East Pakistanis. Fair enough, there was a division based on religion (although a better factor could've been used). But then we had serious problems with our fellow ''countrymen'' from the West, so got rid of them (with some help from our neighbours, who used to be our countrymen not so long ago).

So every label was right at that situation, and so is 'Bangladesh/Bangladeshi' atm. And that's where it ends.

But it indeed would've been nice to have a United Bengal, sounds sikk ;)

On an off note: ...but why peacing in and out all the time? You're here to stay aren't you?

[mufi_02]

Combining two Bengals and creating a singular identity would be tough now. I am not sure, but I think the first Bengal partition was during the 1930s. Then more division followed in 47 and 71. I think the two regions have drifted a lot from each other. The West Bengalis are proud Indians now as we East Bengalis are proud Bangladeshis. I think more cooperation in terms of trade and cultural bond is necessary but unfortunately reunification is quite unrealistic. It will be interesting to look at the Korea model too. I heard South Korea had an official government cabinet called "reunification of korea" but not too sure.

[Purbasha T]

^ <font class='bangla'>বঙ্গ ভঙ্গ</font> first happened in 1905, but then was withdrawn in 1911.

[mufi_02]

Yes you are right. First one was in 1905 and second one in 1947.

[Roey Haque]

On an off note: ...but why peacing in and out all the time? You're here to stay aren't you?

Who knows what may happen? Call it my version of "khoda hafez" if you will.
And yeah, I do see your point about being separated so many times but I'm glad that you realize how cool an United Bengal would be. Another advantage I just thought of right now is that we would have full authority over a holistic Sunderban Forest, which is shared between West Bengal and Bangladesh at the moment.

Peace out,

Roey

[mufi_02]

Ayo Roey,

Its been almost 100 years that the Bengals have been separated. Since then, the two regions have both evolved in their own ways. Yes we will be strong if we are united. Same thing can be said of the whole undivided India. Imagine India, Pak, Bangladesh being one nation. This would be an economic powerhouse, cultural mecca, and an example of diversity. But look at the negatives also. There would be too much riot and communal fighting and less stability.

Same thing with two Bengals. Surely there are positives but I think the negatives outweighs them. The common people on both side of the border are happy with the way things are. Nowadays we only get along culturally but unfortunately socially you won't see much love and yearning for the other Bengal in the street of Dhaka or anywhere in Bangladesh. I don't how that situation is in West Bengal.

Peace out :)

[Roey Haque]

Ayo Roey,

Its been almost 100 years that the Bengals have been separated. Since then, the two regions have both evolved in their own ways. Yes we will be strong if we are united. Same thing can be said of the whole undivided India. Imagine India, Pak, Bangladesh being one nation. This would be an economic powerhouse, cultural mecca, and an example of diversity. But look at the negatives also. There would be too much riot and communal fighting and less stability.

Same thing with two Bengals. Surely there are positives but I think the negatives outweighs them. The common people on both side of the border are happy with the way things are. Nowadays we only get along culturally but unfortunately socially you won't see much love and yearning for the other Bengal in the street of Dhaka or anywhere in Bangladesh. I don't how that situation is in West Bengal.

Peace out :)

Yeah, Mufi. The difference here is that you are being a realist, and I'm being a dreamer. And of course I have contemplated an undivided Indian Subcontinent. That would be amazing.
And again, it's true that general consensus in Bd is not one of brotherly love to West Bengal. But you do get where I'm coming from right? The possibilities would have been endless, think about how we could claim Satyajit Ray as our own national, or the guy who founded Bose. It's like a steroid for increasing your pride, when you pool all Bengies together.

PO

Roey

[Equinox]

Well the way the demographics are changing in WB a united Bengal might not be a dream afterall ;)

But for now, I echo the sentiments above and consider myself a Bangladeshi nationalist to an extent.

[mufi_02]

Yeah, Mufi. The difference here is that you are being a realist, and I'm being a dreamer. And of course I have contemplated an undivided Indian Subcontinent. That would be amazing.
And again, it's true that general consensus in Bd is not one of brotherly love to West Bengal. But you do get where I'm coming from right? The possibilities would have been endless, think about how we could claim Satyajit Ray as our own national, or the guy who founded Bose. It's like a steroid for increasing your pride, when you pool all Bengies together.

PO

Roey

Yeah I understand your sentiment. But honestly, I am a proud Bangladeshi now and am happy with my fellow Bengies :).

By the way, we can claim Satyajit Ray as ours. His grandfather, Upendrakishore Ray, was born in Mymensingh district.

Jyoti Basu, Amartya Sen, SD Burman, Sunil Gangopaddhay, Mithun Chakorbothy (Disco dancer) and countless others were all born in present day Bangladesh.

[Navo]

Roey, it is possible for multiple countries to have 'a claim' over great personalities of the past. Rumi for instance is claimed by several countries.

In the case of Bangladesh, where many of our grandparents were citizens of three different countries during their lifetime, it is even more understandable that we would claim as our own those people who have a significant attachment to our region, regardless of their current national affiliation. The Tagore's had significant land holdings in what is now Bangladesh and so did the Rays. In fact, I know that members of Satyajit Ray's family still visit their ancestral home near Kishoreganj and that festivals commemorating his work are still held there often. The same goes for Amartya Sen, Satyendra Nath Bose, etc.

[Roey Haque]

By the way, we can claim Satyajit Ray as ours. His grandfather, Upendrakishore Ray, was born in Mymensingh district.



Great info! See, this is why I started this thread. Glad I learned something.

PO

Roey

[Zeeshan]

Peace out,

Roey


Peace out,

Roey


Peace out,

Roey



PO

Roey



PO

Roey

Shesher dike dom furiye gelo mone hoy dada....peace out likhlen na?

[bujhee kom]

What is a Willy Bengali?

[Roey Haque]

Shesher dike dom furiye gelo mone hoy dada....peace out likhlen na?

Hahahahaha. A little variation keeps things fresh, not unlike changing your hairstyle.

BTW, I love your Bengali articulations. Very cheery, heart warming and relevant too. Much like Chuadangan Bangla (where my dad's from, I refer it in my song about Shakib).If all people spoke in this manner, I myself might have been encouraged to speak it more often.

You take care Z.

PO

Roey

[Roey Haque]

What is a Willy Bengali?

Man, the name Bujhe kom has never been more appropriate! Haha, kidding.

Well what's there not to get, it's a Bengali who's willy.( crafty, clever, etc.)

Like from the cartoon Roadrunner, where the antagonist "Willy Coyote" chases the roadrunner around. Hope this helps.

PO

Roey Haque

[Purbasha T]

Well what's there not to get, it's a Bengali who's willy.


You mean he's the only Bengali who has one? That's disrespectful. :smh:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=willy

[Navo]

Roey, I think you mean wily with one l.

[Roey Haque]

Roey, I think you mean wily with one l.

Indeed! How silly of me.
Thanks!

PO
Roey

[Roey Haque]

You mean he's the only Bengali who has one? That's disrespectful. :smh:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=willy

LOL. It's with one L.Wily. My bad.

BTW, what kind of player is Saudi Capital?

PO
Roey

[Purbasha T]

LOL. It's with one L.Wily. My bad.

BTW, what kind of player is Saudi Capital?

PO
Roey

Just say out loud the capital of Saudi. ;)

[Tiger Manc]

Ayo,
What's kicking Tiger fans worldwide?

I thought it would be interesting to know all your viewpoints on Bengali nationalism. As an avid lover of history, I'm always correcting revisionists on the net who claim that we simply seceded from Pakistan with the help of India, and that there was no prior age long discrimination inflicted upon us. I feel it is a duty of mine to do so to being a full blooded Bengali.

And worse still, these ignorant people with driven agendas always make it a point to stress that us and the Pakistanis are Muslim brothers, and how the Hindus created a rift between us. Non sense! It isn't even a question about religion, I will take a bullet for a Bengali whether he's Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Jew or even athiest. And fact of the matter is, brothers don't inflict genocide upon one another like what the Pak army did to us starting with "operation searchlight."

Which brings me to the point, I always envisioned an united Bengal, with west bengal and Bangladesh together. It would be beautiful. Our cricketing team might've improved slightly, and without doubt we would have an excellent soccer team as west bengal is one power hubs of Asian soccer.

What are your views? Discuss in details. I've scrounged through these forums recently, and the folks seem very intelligent and it is not beyond you to engage in such ideological concepts.

Peace out,

Roey

Interesting thread and post. Gotta admit your apperance on here has been a breath of fresh air and spiced up the forum. Keep it going.

Peace out,

Tiger Manc

[Roey Haque]

Just say out loud the capital of Saudi. ;)

Damn sonnnnnnnn! ( I don't know if I'm allowed to say damn on BC)

Knowing so much about geography, I should've pronounced Riyadh out loud first.

PO

Roey

[Blah]

"Nationalism is an infantile disease – it is the measles of mankind" (Albert Einstein)

[ammark]

"Nationalism is an infantile disease – it is the measles of mankind" (Albert Einstein)

^^^ Blah, cant you see how this thread has degenerated beyond belief from its stated purpose? This thread is infantile, let alone nationalism!

[Shock]

There is no such thing as Bengali Nationalism. Anyone born or citizen of Bangladesh has a nationalism called Bangladeshi Nationalism or Bangladeshi, mejority which is 98% is a race named Bangali. Bengali is just a bustardism of Bangali.

[tiger_bright]

I am very proud and committed to progressive bangladesh

[BANFAN]

What is Bengali???

Our Language is Bangla, Ethnicity is Bangali, Nationality is Bangladeshi.....that's what it was when I last checked. Anything has been changed by the govt...recently...?? Please update.

[Purbasha T]

Yeah, what's the history of Bangla turning into Bengali? Is it simply one of those words that got British-ized during the British reign?

[tiger_bright]

Principle is same.

[Zunaid]

Let's ignore the red-herring about Bengali vs Bangali. Yes, it is a red herring and some over sensitive people take too much offense at benign things. It is just was valid for English speakers to refer Bangali as Bengali as for us to refer to the US as 'Markin' Juktorashtro. Their language. We should be the last ones to dictate language.

Now going back to the question Roey raised. Once you raise the specter of ethnic based nationalism that transcend geographic boundaries, are you willing to see it through it's logical conclusion.

Bengali nationalism implies a pan-bangla community that sees itself as a nation. While we might feel an affinity to our fellow Bengali speakers across the border, is this sufficiently strong to label it Bengali Nationalism? And isn't the implicit assumption in an ethnicity based nationalism that one is naturally superior to all other states. Once we do that, we might as well put our first step on the slippery slope of ethnocentrism that the infamous German of the last century stepped on. And less morbidly, haven't the two Bengals diverged enough since the partition of India that we cannot be conceived of as an organic unit with a cohesive social hierarchy?

While the world is not ready, we need to see beyond the blinkered views of nationalism. That is a pipe dream for now, because there are so many aggrieved groups who rightfully or not feel they are in a situation of anomie whether via active discrimination or past.

[mona]

And less morbidly, haven't the two Bengals diverged enough since the partition of India that we cannot be conceived of as an organic unit with a cohesive social hierarchy?

Ding ding ding ding ding. Case closed.

Who is this guy?

[Habib]

Ding ding ding ding ding. Case closed.

Who is this guy?

He is a Bengy rapper sis.

[Roey Haque]

Let's ignore the red-herring about Bengali vs Bangali. Yes, it is a red herring and some over sensitive people take too much offense at benign things. It is just was valid for English speakers to refer Bangali as Bengali as for us to refer to the US as 'Markin' Juktorashtro. Their language. We should be the last ones to dictate language.

Now going back to the question Roey raised. Once you raise the specter of ethnic based nationalism that transcend geographic boundaries, are you willing to see it through it's logical conclusion.

Bengali nationalism implies a pan-bangla community that sees itself as a nation. While we might feel an affinity to our fellow Bengali speakers across the border, is this sufficiently strong to label it Bengali Nationalism? And isn't the implicit assumption in an ethnicity based nationalism that one is naturally superior to all other states. Once we do that, we might as well put our first step on the slippery slope of ethnocentrism that the infamous German of the last century stepped on. And less morbidly, haven't the two Bengals diverged enough since the partition of India that we cannot be conceived of as an organic unit with a cohesive social hierarchy?

While the world is not ready, we need to see beyond the blinkered views of nationalism. That is a pipe dream for now, because there are so many aggrieved groups who rightfully or not feel they are in a situation of anomie whether via active discrimination or past.


Mind you Zunaid, I'm not in favor at all of just language uniting us. Knowing Bengali is not half as important to me as knowing the region's geography and history.

PO

Roey

[BANFAN]

Let's ignore the red-herring about Bengali vs Bangali. Yes, it is a red herring and some over sensitive people take too much offense at benign things. It is just was valid for English speakers to refer Bangali as Bengali as for us to refer to the US as 'Markin' Juktorashtro. Their language. We should be the last ones to dictate language

I think, neither you, nor the thread opener, nor any of the other guy in the thread who calls me a Bengali or my language as Bengali ... Are English speakers.....

It's like a Brit calling them Engrez... And I'm sure none of the Brits will accept it as easily as you accept to be a Bengali..... Such is our sensitivity to our own identity........to say the least... And we dare to discuss it for for what?? That how intelligent I am?? .. We should feel ashamed to call us Bengalis ... Just an English would feel ashamed to call him Engrez.... just like we can't dictate their language, they can't dictate ours.... So it's insulting for me or my language to be called a Bengali.

We probably don't need your approval on this.... You are first and American and then a Bangladeshi... That's your statement....so I can understand your mindset. it's not red herring for us...as you insist...may be for you but not for all....

I love to be called a Bangali for ethnicity, I spell my language as Bangla and my nationality as Bangladeshi.... I don't compromise on these terms... Let the English or French call it anything, that doesn't bother me... Ohhh the Chinese call it Mongjala.... So should we start calling our language Mongjala??? Red herring??? Ya...

[Zunaid]

I think, neither you, nor the thread opener, nor any of the other guy in the thread who calls me a Bengali or my language as Bengali ... Are English speakers.....

It's like a Brit calling them Engrez... And I'm sure none of the Brits will accept it as easily as you accept to be a Bengali..... Such is our sensitivity to our own identity........to say the least... And we dare to discuss it for for what?? That how intelligent I am?? .. We should feel ashamed to call us Bengalis ... Just an English would feel ashamed to call him Engrez.... just like we can't dictate their language, they can't dictate ours.... So it's insulting for me or my language to be called a Bengali.

We probably don't need your approval on this.... You are first and American and then a Bangladeshi... That's your statement....so I can understand your mindset. it's not red herring for us...as you insist...may be for you but not for all....

I love to be called a Bangali for ethnicity, I spell my language as Bangla and my nationality as Bangladeshi.... I don't compromise on these terms... Let the English or French call it anything, that doesn't bother me... Ohhh the Chinese call it Mongjala.... So should we start calling our language Mongjala??? Red herring??? Ya...

The thing is, we are communicating here in English. Therefore Bengali and Bangla should be equally acceptable. I prefer Bangla and I call myself Bangali and I use both terms throughout my VirtualBangladesh.com sight. That does not mean I take offense if someone calls me a Bengali. I have less to no tolerance to the other variants I notice, such as bengies, bangy, bong, bangla etc some of which have pejorative underpinnings. Regardless of my nationality, I am still a Bangali. It does not change with my citizenship. I could be a Chinese citizen and still a Bangali.

As for the vacuous response in the post following yours, the less said the better. I enjoy the conversations we have, as you are rational and devoid of spite.

[idrinkh2O]

My ethnicity: Bangali
My language: Bangla
My nationality: Bangladeshi :)

[mar umpire]

Divide and conquer
Nationalism
No to blindness
Justice and truth

[bujhee kom]

Hello Ke? Ke eta? Who is this bhai?