PDA

View Full Version : Shakib's 'laziness': Should we be worried?


BengaliPagol
May 8, 2012, 01:23 AM
We all love Shakib. He is the pride and soul of the Bangladesh Cricket Team. His stats are fantastic and he is the rock of the team. He gets the job done. We also cannot forget he is also the worlds best allrounder.

But one thing that is a bit concerning is his laziness in training. Ian Pont mentioned it. Shakib mentioned it himself. Stuart Law mentioned it.

Shakib is what the youngsters in the Bangladesh Cricket Team (e.g. Anamul, Nasir etc.) look up to. So if the youngsters see Shakib being lazy in training then wouldnt it make them feel that hard work isnt required to be in the top level?

We need youngsters to work hard so they can be developed and learn to be the best they can possibly be. So is Shakibs 'laziness' affecting the team?

Dilscoop
May 8, 2012, 01:27 AM
You did not just open this thread....

Merge with OT please. This is one positive of having an OT.

BengaliPagol
May 8, 2012, 01:29 AM
You did not just open this thread....

Well i had to. I just felt like a discussion is needed for this topic. We want to hear peoples views on this.

Gowza
May 8, 2012, 01:30 AM
Shakib is the pride and soul of the Bangladesh Cricket Team. His stats are fantastic and he is the rock of the team. He gets the job done. We also cannot forget he is also the worlds best allrounder.

But one thing that is a bit concerning is his laziness in training. Ian Pont mentioned it. Shakib mentioned it himself. Stuart Law mentioned it.

Shakib is what the youngsters in the Bangladesh Cricket Team (e.g. Anamul, Nasir etc.)look up to. So if the youngsters see Shakib being lazy in training then wouldnt it make them feel that hard work isnt required to be in the top level?

We need youngsters to work hard so they can be developed and learn to be the best they can possibly be. So is Shakibs 'laziness' affecting this?

from a role model point of view as to what we want the younger generations to do as cricketers and be professional i can see your concern. i mean lately everyone has been saying that the best player BD has so far produced is lazy in training, we definitely don't want younger players to think it's fine to slack off when it comes to training and fitness and for them to think it's not required.

but i reckon, despite people saying he's lazy and even himself, i reckon he still trains really really hard and still puts in a good amount of hours. he still has to pass fitness tests and still needs to keep up and improve his skills and those things only happen if you train and since he is always improving then obviously he is putting in a good amount of work despite the latest being that he's lazy.

Dilscoop
May 8, 2012, 01:41 AM
I already put my input in this putting. http://banglacricket.com/alochona/showpost.php?p=1518800&postcount=32

BengaliPagol
May 8, 2012, 01:51 AM
from a role model point of view as to what we want the younger generations to do as cricketers and be professional i can see your concern. i mean lately everyone has been saying that the best player BD has so far produced is lazy in training, we definitely don't want younger players to think it's fine to slack off when it comes to training and fitness and for them to think it's not required.

but i reckon, despite people saying he's lazy and even himself, i reckon he still trains really really hard and still puts in a good amount of hours. he still has to pass fitness tests and still needs to keep up and improve his skills and those things only happen if you train and since he is always improving then obviously he is putting in a good amount of work despite the latest being that he's lazy.

Exactly :up:

But one thing is yes he might be keeping up with match fitness but there is probably a 'criteria' that the team has to reach in training and Shakibs not reaching it. Shakib is talented but i dont want him to send the wrong message to youngsters.

But since Pont and Law mentioned about it i think its an issue that Shakibs needs to fix.

tiger_army
May 8, 2012, 02:00 AM
Shakib is a role model, but it doesnt mean the youngstars will have to follow his total lifestyle.. If you want to be a super star like shakib you have to unique..Off course Shakib worked hard from his under 15 stage to reach this higher level and he never mentioned that he followed anybody during the whole journey..I know few names, S nafees, Imrul, Mushi these are the guys who always work really hard in nets but they cannot be Shakib..So if a youngstars wanna be a superstars they should know their strengths and work hard on their weekness. Shakib already set the path for them.. But it doesnt mean he has to always train hard in nets to show them.

Maysun
May 8, 2012, 02:04 AM
If you don't give your everything in training, you will never give it all during the real test.

I hated every minute of training, but I said, “Don’t quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion.”
–Muhammad Ali

Rabz
May 8, 2012, 02:12 AM
No we shouldn't be worried.
He might be lazy, but still holds the No 1 ranking in the world.

This things are different to individuals.
Some trains really hard yet can't deliver to their potential, and there are some really talented individual who does just the bare minimum but still produces amazing results.
I'm sure Shakib knows how much he needs to do to perform at his best level.

Also sometimes, this things depends on how much he is being challenged in the team.
He IS Shakib Al Hasan, so his worth with the Bangladesh team is beyond any doubt.
The moment he realises that he is not competing with rest of the team mates, but with the rest of the best this world has to offer, it will bring a new challenge for which he will need to pick up the paces and Inshallah he will.

Your input will only reflect your desired level of output.
Now that the bar has been raised ( and hopefully he realises that), his input will also change.

firstlane
May 8, 2012, 02:25 AM
You did not just open this thread....


That was my thought too.
I don't care as long as he performs. Its the other ones who we should be worried about.

Ian Pont
May 8, 2012, 02:55 AM
There are two issues here: whether a player trains as hard as he can, and whether a player has to be told to train.

I am sure the fans simply don't care as long as a player performs. After all, this is all that matters right?

If a young player sees a senior player doing very little, they might think it's OK for them to also do very little. This is a role model situation and it depends on the gullible nature of the young player to be influenced negatively. What will then happen is the coach will have to TELL that player to train and this leads to problems.

If a coach is telling international cricketers they must train, then there is an issue. Grant (trainer) can tell you many, many stories about certain players not training or simply turning up and not doing what they should.

The problem for Shakib is that every coach knows of his lack of desire to train. It's a problem because others like Gambir, Narine, Lee, Ten Doeschate, Kallis etc at KKR, work hard in the gym and on the training field. These players will do more over and above what they have been asked to do. They push themselves extremely hard. It can work against a player if he isn't seen as a team player.

At Worcestershire, Shakib didn't want to train compared to the others. Essex, who are discussing the possibility of signing Shakib, already knows this.

So Shakib has a reputation of not training. My point is, just how good could he be, how much more would he play, how much more would he be revered outside of Bangladesh, if he simply trained like an international athlete? The knock on effect to the BD team would be immense as people copied what he did and Grant's life would be far easier as trainer.

If you have to be told to practice and train then you are in the wrong mindset as a player. It doesn't make you a bad player. It simply means you will not fulfil your fullest potential. Being number one at a certain time is no excuse.

Shakib is talented there is no doubt. What he doesn't realise perhaps he has a far more important role to play as a role model. The BD structure isn't strong enough to tell players they MUST do this or that. A player can go running to the board to complain if they don't like what a coach is doing.

I spent time at the BPL chatting to Anamul. He is extremely talented. But I wanted to discuss his mindset and I said not to look at other senior players in the BD team and think that's what you must be like. I told him to train hard, work hard, be the best he can be and he will get recognition all over the world. I told him not to chase the dollars, as the dollars will chase him. I wouldn't want Anamul to go down the wrong path with his training and practice.

So overall, you guys shouldn't be worried about Shakib's laziness, after all he doesn't. And he is a wonderful cricketer. However, if you want the cricket to get out of where it is right now, there are long term reasons above why you should keep an eye on things.

MohammedC
May 8, 2012, 03:54 AM
@ Ian : Are you saying he never practices or he should do more ?

Ian Pont
May 8, 2012, 04:01 AM
@ Ian : Are you saying he never practices or he should do more ?

I am saying he is allowed to get away with little training because he is such a fine player and a national hero. I just wouldn't want others to copy his 'training' model.

If you are trying to instil a training discipline of hard work, effort and going the extra mile in practice, then Shakib is not your leader. My point is you don't build an environment of excellence based on doing as little as you can get away with.

Does he care about Bangladesh? Yes most definitely. Is he a world class player? Absolutely. But he is those things IN SPITE of his training and not because of it.

Naimul_Hd
May 8, 2012, 04:39 AM
I also heard that Tamim never bats in net before the game. How ridiculous ! Is he superstitious or a complete snob ?

BD Rox
May 8, 2012, 04:54 AM
After all what Ian Pont said, that we should worried, I reckon him to be serious while training as he is the big fish of our team. He is the inspiration for the youngsters.

BengaliPagol
May 8, 2012, 04:58 AM
There are two issues here: whether a player trains as hard as he can, and whether a player has to be told to train.

I am sure the fans simply don't care as long as a player performs. After all, this is all that matters right?

If a young player sees a senior player doing very little, they might think it's OK for them to also do very little. This is a role model situation and it depends on the gullible nature of the young player to be influenced negatively. What will then happen is the coach will have to TELL that player to train and this leads to problems.

The problem for Shakib is that every coach knows of his lack of desire to train.
So Shakib has a reputation of not training. My point is, just how good could he be, how much more would he play, how much more would he be revered outside of Bangladesh, if he simply trained like an international athlete? The knock on effect to the BD team would be immense as people copied what he did and Grant's life would be far easier as trainer.

If you have to be told to practice and train then you are in the wrong mindset as a player. It doesn't make you a bad player. It simply means you will not fulfil your fullest potential. Being number one at a certain time is no excuse.

I dont understand why people are saying 'why did you open this thread'. This is exactly why i opened this thread. Ok Shakib is a great player but how good would he be if he trained to his potential?

But thats not the thing im worried about. Shakib is sending the wrong message to youngsters. Whatever you put into training will be worth it on the field.

Why isnt everyone understanding this? I love Shakib. Dont get me wrong. Sorry Ian but i am worrying.

BengaliPagol
May 8, 2012, 05:01 AM
I also heard that Tamim never bats in net before the game. How ridiculous ! Is he superstitious or a complete snob ?

I think maybe batting before the game is optional? What i feel personally is if you are not batting well before the match then your confidence level might be down when you get on to bat.

Thats what i think Tamim feels.

zinatf
May 8, 2012, 05:32 AM
Seriously? This is what the topic's for? WOW!!

No....we shouldn't be worried....despite his resistance to train more...he still holds the No. 1 position..each to his own....this is how Shakib al Hasan is......

Maysun
May 8, 2012, 05:34 AM
I bet such things wouldn't have been tolerated at the Australian camp, no matter how big you are.

MohammedC
May 8, 2012, 05:35 AM
Seriously? This is what the topic's for? WOW!!

No....we shouldn't be worried....despite his resistance to train more...he still holds the No. 1 position..each to his own....this is how Shakib al Hasan is......

Its not about he is currently number -1 and he dont have to practice, but how good he could be if he practice same as other leading athlete in the world (repeating what Ian Pont said)

Maysun
May 8, 2012, 05:38 AM
Seriously? This is what the topic's for? WOW!!

No....we shouldn't be worried....despite his resistance to train more...he still holds the No. 1 position..each to his own....this is how Shakib al Hasan is......

We shouldn't be worried as long as he delivers and renews his hunger for greater challenges. If his desire remains stagnant, then that's it. He has to realize it, and I'm sure he does as he has spoken about it, to continually grow.

BengaliPagol
May 8, 2012, 05:41 AM
Seriously? This is what the topic's for? WOW!!

No....we shouldn't be worried....despite his resistance to train more...he still holds the No. 1 position..each to his own....this is how Shakib al Hasan is......

Its not about him! Its about the team as a whole and sending the right message and morales.

zinatf
May 8, 2012, 05:43 AM
Then let him be...who knows maybe he does practice....I don't think we should be worrying this.....yes maybe he can do even better if he pushes himself....but maybe this is how he is....its upto him anyways...

BengaliPagol
May 8, 2012, 05:48 AM
I bet such things wouldn't have been tolerated at the Australian camp, no matter how big you are.

The Australian camp would have the the 'working hard' morale in training. You dont have to find out. Its instilled into the players. No one is lazying about. They are all working hard. No slacking around. I would say the Australian coaches would even drop the player from the team if he isnt putting effort into training.

Bangladesh arent world class yet. They need to work hard to achieve. I dont see how 'slacking about' in training is going to help the cause.

It all comes down to the morale of training. If senior players arent training hard then youngsters are going to follow that moral. If the senior players of the Australian team are working hard then the youngsters in the Australian team are looking upto a good moral and belief. This will bring out the best out of the youngster.

Everyone just please try to understand. Its not just about the player itself. Its about the moral and message he is bringing across into training. We dont just want the best out of Shakib. We want the best out of the whole Bangladeshi team.

:flag:

zinatf
May 8, 2012, 05:50 AM
^^for that you have to tell this to Grant Luden-----the designated trainer for the Bangladesh Cricket Team :)

zinatf
May 8, 2012, 05:54 AM
Off topic, but Mashrafe might be the most hard working cricketer in Bangladesh......I remember seeing a tweet from Shane Jurgensen saying he was back at the gym right after Asia Cup!

BengaliPagol
May 8, 2012, 05:55 AM
^^ This isnt something the trainer can enforce in the team. He cant force people to train hard. It shows that the player isnt ambitious enough to train. Its upto the senior players themselves to instill that belief into the team. Thats what makes Shakib a big component to the team.

Ian Pont
May 8, 2012, 06:09 AM
^^for that you have to tell this to Grant Luden-----the designated trainer for the Bangladesh Cricket Team :)

...and I could tell you of the times Grant has been waiting to train with certain players who didn't even bother to show up! So please don't put this on Grant, who is a world class trainer by the way. Grant is there to facilitate for the players, to help them train and to advance their physical skills. It's not his fault if people don't want to do it.

It is also difficult if the players then complain to the BCB that coaches are pushing them too hard and they are 'tired'. Things may then get changed from 'above' and the coaches are left in the difficult situation of having the players do what they want.

If you allow people to be their own guide, then they have to understand what is expected of an international player. If it is left to those who have no idea, then it is the blind leading the blind. And we all wonder why cricket isn't improving?

Go figure....

BengaliPagol
May 8, 2012, 06:17 AM
...and I could tell you of the times Grant has been waiting to train with certain players who didn't even bother to show up! So please don't put this on Grant, who is a world class trainer by the way. Grant is there to facilitate for the players, to help them train and to advance their physical skills. It's not his fault if people don't want to do it.

It is also difficult if the players then complain to the BCB that coaches are pushing them too hard and they are 'tired'. Things may then get changed from 'above' and the coaches are left in the difficult situation of having the players do what they want.

If you allow people to be their own guide, then they have to understand what is expected of an international player. If it is left to those who have no idea, then it is the blind leading the blind. And we all wonder why cricket isn't improving?

Go figure....

So the team has to reinforce a 'work hard' training moral to get the best out of the players? This makes the senior players the role models. The senior players need to notice the responsibility for the team. I guess Mashrafe works really hard in training. Hopefully everyone watches him in training and NOT Shakib.

Equinox
May 8, 2012, 06:37 AM
Another reason for him not to be the captain.

Ian Pont
May 8, 2012, 06:38 AM
So the team has to reinforce a 'work hard' training moral to get the best out of the players? This makes the senior players the role models. The senior players need to notice the responsibility for the team. I guess Mashrafe works really hard in training. Hopefully everyone watches him in training and NOT Shakib.

Some people (like Mash, Mushy, Rocky (when he was in the side), and others) CHOOSE to work hard and do as much as they can in nets, training, fielding etc. But no professional cricketer should really have to be told to train.

If a player is not prepared to get the best out of himself then is it any wonder why an entire team with that approach would fail consistently?

The very bottom line here, is as it always has been: it is not about the coaching staff (who are international professionals) but about the players themselves. We all know about the excuse culture that abounds in Bangladesh cricket. Resisting the changes that are needed starts at the top and ends with the players.

The sad truth is, if the players wanted to make a difference they could. Coaches like Grant, Shane, Jason and Stuart are there to help.

You can appoint as many John Wrights, Richard Pybus's and Mick Newell's as you wish, but it won't amount to a hill of beans unless everyone buys into the message.

Bangladesh cricket doesn't need a big named coach. It needs a change of mindset.

BengaliPagol
May 8, 2012, 07:01 AM
Mushfiq is a great example of improvement

Tigers_eye
May 8, 2012, 07:09 AM
Shakib didn't do "Hagu" this morning. - A great concern!!

If Shakib is Lazy then you are lazy "square", wait!! No lazy "cube". Don't throw rocks at others while sitting in a glass house. ghorey boise internet'a bandwidth noshto kortaso. Go outside and do something fruitful. Help the needy. Feed the hunger!! Jotto shob.

AsifTheManRahman
May 8, 2012, 07:11 AM
The role model thing - any 18/19 year old is old enough to realize the importance of hard work. Anyone who isn't as talented as Shakib should know he has to work hard to get to the top and if he thinks otherwise just because Shakib doesn't train, then he's got the brain of a 4 year old and doesn't deserve to play.

If you have a role model, you should pick up what he does best, not what he does worst. Even better, be your own role model if you can. If you can't tell good and bad apart when you're 19, you might as well stay away from professional sport. Let's stop treating guys like Asif and Anamul like kids.
<br />Posted via BC Mobile Edition (Blackberry)

Zunaid
May 8, 2012, 07:17 AM
Shakib didn't do "Hagu" this morning. - A great concern!!

If Shakib is Lazy then you are lazy "square", wait!! No lazy "cube". Don't throw rocks at others while sitting in a glass house. ghorey boise internet'a bandwidth noshto kortaso. Go outside and do something fruitful. Help the needy. Feed the hunger!! Jotto shob.

You don't get the point do you? Forget about the role model crap but Shakib is a supposed to be a professional athlete and a professional is always sharpening and hoing his skills to want to do better than he can. Just because he is so very good, a class away from the rest of the players (yes, even Tamim), he can get away with it, and he so very good even on a world level that he can coast without the hard work. Imagine if he did put the effort?

Maysun
May 8, 2012, 07:17 AM
Boy, is this thread interesting! Loving everyone's opinion on the topic and the matter. Good thread, BengaliPagol :up:

playmaker
May 8, 2012, 07:18 AM
im more worried about these meaningless threads

Maysun
May 8, 2012, 07:23 AM
So the bottom line is, Shakib is a professional, and he is required to put in as much effort as the whole team. He doesn't get away with it, just because he's the star player. Being in the squad for almost 6 years now, he's supposed to set an example through his work ethic.

And what concerns people is, imagine if he'd put in that extra effort during training, he'd could polish his abilities and be a better cricketer.

But what worries me is, as Ian pointed out, he had the same attitude when he was at Worcs.

Zunaid
May 8, 2012, 07:28 AM
The role model thing - any 18/19 year old is old enough to realize the importance of hard work. Anyone who isn't as talented as Shakib should know he has to work hard to get to the top and if he thinks otherwise just because Shakib doesn't train, then he's got the brain of a 4 year old and doesn't deserve to play.

If you have a role model, you should pick up what he does best, not what he does worst. Even better, be your own role model if you can. If you can't tell good and bad apart when you're 19, you might as well stay away from professional sport. Let's stop treating guys like Asif and Anamul like kids.

Posted via BC Mobile Edition (Blackberry)

The problem is that we even treat mid 20s like kids let alone guys the age Anamul and Asif. We treat them like kid and they act like kids. When the going gets tough, they go home crying to momma, or to someone else. Remember when McInnes tried to bring in modern training methods and the kids actually had to work - there was such a hue and cry , like a storm in a ice water bucket, but that went away as his charges started delivering and they are still delivering today.

And wasn't there that incident where some football players were refusing to train because the coach was working them too hard? Guess what your football ranking is today?

We should pandering. We should stop being complacent. We should stop passing the buck. We should be responsible for out own fate and work on changing and improving it.

I recommend everyone read the book 'Outliers' by Malcolm Gladwell.

His basic premise: The key to success in any field is, to a large extent, a matter of practicing a specific task for a total of around 10,000 hours. The 10K number may be an arbitrarily chosen large number, but the essence of the book is - practice, practice, practice.

They can all play at Carnegie Hall.

simon
May 8, 2012, 07:35 AM
I heard that Sakib practices cricket via Playstation.

rumeur

tiger_army
May 8, 2012, 07:45 AM
The role model thing - any 18/19 year old is old enough to realize the importance of hard work. Anyone who isn't as talented as Shakib should know he has to work hard to get to the top and if he thinks otherwise just because Shakib doesn't train, then he's got the brain of a 4 year old and doesn't deserve to play.

If you have a role model, you should pick up what he does best, not what he does worst. Even better, be your own role model if you can. If you can't tell good and bad apart when you're 19, you might as well stay away from professional sport. Let's stop treating guys like Asif and Anamul like kids.

Posted via BC Mobile Edition (Blackberry)

Exactly....:up:

beshideshi
May 8, 2012, 07:48 AM
A lot like the situation where a boy doesn't study and still aces the class. There will always be a "if he studied......." cry. But you have to understand that orthodox technique need not work for everyone.
Shakib is a special talent, and no one can deny that. And training extra hard could make him a better player, but what if training hard and playing cricket for 3 years non stop gets to him and he crashes at some point? I say dont fix it, until it's broken.

And as for taking role models, many footballers took Maradona as their role model, but almost every one had the common sense to not follow his drug addiction! If you are not smart enough to realize the value of hard work, then you dont deserve to be among the top.

mufi_02
May 8, 2012, 08:10 AM
Hit thread :great:

hasibhussain
May 8, 2012, 08:10 AM
I remember once when Micheal Jordan (The all time greatest basket ball player in the world) was asked in an interview on what gets him going even after winning so many championships, he answered "continuous improvement". That is the motto for champions and that is also the motto for every common man making a living. So I see no reason where we can argue against the value of training.

nahaz
May 8, 2012, 08:29 AM
I remember once when Micheal Jordan (The all time greatest basket ball player in the world) was asked in an interview on what gets him going even after winning so many championships, he answered "continuous improvement". That is the motto for champions and that is also the motto for every common man making a living. So I see no reason where we can argue against the value of training.

That's beautiful. And true in every aspect of life.

Problem with Shakib saying he is number one and does not need to practice too much is that others in the team follow that pattern. They might not even like Shakib, but straight away they can point to Swift and say why isn't he doing these drills and we have to?

I know that Tamim does not practice too hard.. probably because he considers himself the best of the country. And herein lies the problem. If Shakib is the best bowler in the country and the second best batsman, and he doesn't practice, why should our supposedly best batsman in the country, Tamim, practice?

Never mind the fact Tamim and every single batsman in the country cannot even dream of three centuries in a row, even when in the best of forms. Often, I feel their lazy training habits come on to the field, where they are often reluctant to push ones on to twos, and unable to play long innings and score hundreds after getting big starts. Often the difference between Bangladesh and opponents is someone in opposition getting one big score, and our one losing concentration after scoring a fifty. In bowling, its equivalent is bowling a loose/boundary ball every over or two in the middle of excellent spells. The inability to stick to gameplans- when Mashrafee is bowling really tight at one end, Shahadat bowling short balls on a flat track and giving 8 runs per over. All come down to laziness, of the body and/or the mind.

Don't get me wrong. I, and many others here, probably won't be able to keep up for one whole week of Shakib's training. However, cricket is his job, not ours. So compare apples with apples. Compare Shakib with Gambhir, Brett Lee and Michael Vaughan, not with a non-cricketer's work ethic. I am sure Shakib's training regime isn't pathetic, but what Ian and the coaches ask for from him isn't overambitious at all.

playmaker
May 8, 2012, 08:32 AM
worry for whom the new generation??

People say that he is supposed to be a role model, and he is. Children will definitely follow him. But follow him at what sense? The cool customer in the cricket field or the lazy guy who likes to spend time in front of PS3, TV watching football which he loves so much?

Someone who wants to succeed will follow the first part. The cool calm and highly professional sakib. Think about it, no one can become like messi, ronaldo, tendulkar, just by having similar hairstyles, same clothing and so on. But they should follow the good things things about them as ATMR said some a while ago.

Maysun
May 8, 2012, 08:35 AM
I heard that Sakib practices cricket via Playstation.

rumeur

EA Sports Cricket 07 naki? Is he even there in the squad list in the game?

zinatf
May 8, 2012, 08:43 AM
...and I could tell you of the times Grant has been waiting to train with certain players who didn't even bother to show up! So please don't put this on Grant, who is a world class trainer by the way. Grant is there to facilitate for the players, to help them train and to advance their physical skills. It's not his fault if people don't want to do it.

It is also difficult if the players then complain to the BCB that coaches are pushing them too hard and they are 'tired'. Things may then get changed from 'above' and the coaches are left in the difficult situation of having the players do what they want.

If you allow people to be their own guide, then they have to understand what is expected of an international player. If it is left to those who have no idea, then it is the blind leading the blind. And we all wonder why cricket isn't improving?

Go figure....

Holy Cow!! Poor Grant.

Ian Pont
May 8, 2012, 08:52 AM
The problem is that we even treat mid 20s like kids let alone guys the age Anamul and Asif. We treat them like kid and they act like kids. When the going gets tough, they go home crying to momma, or to someone else. Remember when McInnes tried to bring in modern training methods and the kids actually had to work - there was such a hue and cry , like a storm in a ice water bucket, but that went away as his charges started delivering and they are still delivering today.

And wasn't there that incident where some football players were refusing to train because the coach was working them too hard? Guess what your football ranking is today?

We should pandering. We should stop being complacent. We should stop passing the buck. We should be responsible for out own fate and work on changing and improving it.

I recommend everyone read the book 'Outliers' by Malcolm Gladwell.

His basic premise: The key to success in any field is, to a large extent, a matter of practicing a specific task for a total of around 10,000 hours. The 10K number may be an arbitrarily chosen large number, but the essence of the book is - practice, practice, practice.

They can all play at Carnegie Hall.

Solid post. :up:

Those of us working in biomechanics (movement of the body) teach 10,000 repetitions for muscle memory to be correctly learned. It simply means if you want to make a particular skill 'natural' (or change something to be natural) it takes 10,000 repetitions of it. It would explain why doing way less than this leads to it being inconsistent under pressure.

How many times have fans come on here and said "so and so doesn't move his feet" or that "such and such a player played some crazy shot"? The reason is they have not practiced what the OUGHT to do enough (nets) and therefore will constantly go out and under perform.

When you are under pressure you revert to what your sub-conscious has learned and done all day long. You teach the changes by training the changes over that length of time.

Test batting averages, which are the genuine measure of a batsman's skill, whilst they don't tell the whole story certainly tell a large part of it.

"World Class" batsmen: Kallis 57.44, Sangakarra 56.25, Tendulkar 56.02, Trott 55.75, Younis Khan 53.20, Ponting 53,44, Sehwag 52.21 explain why they are where they are.

A random sample of Bangladesh batsmen: Shakib 34.68, Tamim 38.00, Nasir 29.58, Ash 22.60, Nazimmudin 30.25, Imrul 17.15 explain why they are where they are. Plus we have to remember that the Bangladesh stats are mostly against lesser ranked teams too.

Matt Prior who bats at 7 for England, averages 43.09 in Tests as a comparison.

Only the Bangladesh players can do something about that. If players are happy just to be in the side then there's not much hope. If they want to become the best they can, then the coaches can make something of them.

To be the best, you have to beat the best - consistently, day in, day out. It starts on the training ground and in the gym. The coaches have always been there to help.

Whenever someone points the finger of blame at someone else, always look where his other fingers are pointing.

playmaker
May 8, 2012, 09:01 AM
Pont I know how you feel about the team but at the end of the day who is to be blamed really?

The issue is that you feel find that our players sometime get FREE TICKETS to match, so even if they underperform he isnt under muc scrutiny. If he scores just one 50 people start running after him. Nasir played just 13 matches and he already has a century and 3 50s already in intl cricket. While we BD fans praise some mediocre players like jahurul, nazimuddin and few others just after they score a a fifty or two. Shahadat took 5 wicket halls some ages ago and we still consider him as a quality fast bowler.

I think we fans are to be blamed for the low standards that we set for ourselves. For example we may be happy with tamim scoring those 4 50s but he shouldve gone onto score a century in at least two of them. Many of you havent noticed, but VIRAT KOHLI has scored more centuries than any of our players in Mirpur!!! 5 centuries!! and this very guy didnt get a test call until a year ago!

Ian Pont
May 8, 2012, 09:08 AM
Pont I know how you feel about the team but at the end of the day who is to be blamed really?

Please call me Ian, or coach because Pont is my family name.

It's not about blame, it's about taking responsibility. If people said "what else can I do to make myself better'? then that would give everyone a starting point.

When you look hard into the mirror you often get the answer.

MSM B2C
May 8, 2012, 09:22 AM
Solid post. :up:

Those of us working in biomechanics (movement of the body) teach 10,000 repetitions for muscle memory to be correctly learned. It simply means if you want to make a particular skill 'natural' (or change something to be natural) it takes 10,000 repetitions of it. It would explain why doing way less than this leads to it being inconsistent under pressure.

How many times have fans come on here and said "so and so doesn't move his feet" or that "such and such a player played some crazy shot"? The reason is they have not practiced what the OUGHT to do enough (nets) and therefore will constantly go out and under perform.

When you are under pressure you revert to what your sub-conscious has learned and done all day long. You teach the changes by training the changes over that length of time.

Test batting averages, which are the genuine measure of a batsman's skill, whilst they don't tell the whole story certainly tell a large part of it.

"World Class" batsmen: Kallis 57.44, Sangakarra 56.25, Tendulkar 56.02, Trott 55.75, Younis Khan 53.20, Ponting 53,44, Sehwag 52.21 explain why they are where they are.

A random sample of Bangladesh batsmen: Shakib 34.68, Tamim 38.00, Nasir 29.58, Ash 22.60, Nazimmudin 30.25, Imrul 17.15 explain why they are where they are. Plus we have to remember that the Bangladesh stats are mostly against lesser ranked teams too.

Matt Prior who bats at 7 for England, averages 43.09 in Tests as a comparison.

Only the Bangladesh players can do something about that. If players are happy just to be in the side then there's not much hope. If they want to become the best they can, then the coaches can make something of them.

To be the best, you have to beat the best - consistently, day in, day out. It starts on the training ground and in the gym. The coaches have always been there to help.

Whenever someone points the finger of blame at someone else, always look where his other fingers are pointing.

I must admit, this is one of the best Post I have ever seen from you, top notch. outstanding way of explaining and proves that your really good at biomechanics teaching. I really learnt alot from this post and can use in real life example, inshallah.

Maysun
May 8, 2012, 09:22 AM
Cricinfo - Shakib Inteview (http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/559307.html)

.....

How important is professionalism, overall, to you?
It is very important because without professionalism, becoming a proper cricketer is difficult. I got emotional one day, but after a day I changed. I have to change. The next match I play is a totally different ballgame to me. Such emotions do not matter. If I sit with that emotion, my life won't run in the right direction. I have to improve my game. I think all this falls under professionalism.

Have county cricket and IPL changed your perception of professionalism?
It has mainly happened by playing county cricket. In the IPL there is a lot more travelling and matches so it is difficult to get an opportunity to practise a particular area of your game. In county cricket you get to stay at one place for a while. There's a lot more opportunity to work on yourself. If I want to improve, there's a lot of scope in the county game. This is where professionalism kicks in: to bat an extra hour or to bowl or to do some extra work on the field. It depends on how honest I am with my work.

Do you find it missing in Bangladesh?
I don't think it is missing. I think I am the laziest person in the national team. Everyone else works harder than me.

I do my bit, whatever it is that I need to work on. I might spend the least amount of time in the gym, but when required I will do it.

.....

What's your next ambition?
Personally, I want to improve by finishing matches. My bowling isn't going that well. It's difficult to keep both going - batting and bowling. I feel it is hard to concentrate on both in training. I have seen that if I take one discipline and work on it, it gets better. But to work on both is a bit difficult. So you have to let one go at times. It is a problem at times [as an allrounder]. There's a lot of room to work hard. I told you, I am a lazy person.

How will you sustain this good run that you've had since last December?
If the IPL goes well, I would think it will be a good way to continue. I think it is possible to sustain. I have to play in this manner and stay fit.


Just to refresh everyone's memories!

Gowza
May 8, 2012, 09:26 AM
yes players taking responsibility for themselves and their career is one big step the BD players need to take. i remember during the siddons era people saying jamie wasn't the right choice for HC and was a bad choice because the players need a motivator someone to motivate them and that jamie wasn't good at that thus the poor results and to that i would always say they are professional cricketers if they don't have the motivation from within themselves then what are they doing their? coaches can only improve a player if they are willing to put in the work, they can motivate to a point but the players have to be able to pull the determination and desire and hard work ethic to improve from within themselves.

as has been pointed out BD has had good quality professional international coaches with chaps, whatmore, siddons and now law. in the past fans have questioned the coaching when the team hasn't performed well. they say it must be the coaching because the whole team is doing poorly not just a couple of players.

Ian Pont
May 8, 2012, 09:56 AM
I must admit, this is one of the best Post I have ever seen from you, top notch. outstanding way of explaining and proves that your really good at biomechanics teaching. I really learnt alot from this post and can use in real life example, inshallah.

Thanks bhai. So was yours.

Teaching skill is my area so this is a subject extremely close to my heart. I work with students every day and develop talent every day through my own cricket business. All humans learn the same way with a combination of auditory (hearing/telling), visual (seeing) and kinaesthetic (doing/feeling). The combination of those for the individual alters slightly and a great coach knows which ones to tug on to assist with the learning, but the rough importance is 95% doing, 75% seeing, 15% hearing.

It explains why not being able to speak the same language (hearing) is not that important when it comes to embracing new skills.

By far and away the most important for developing skill is by doing. Repeating good things and feeling them (nets) and then seeing them back (video analysis). The cycle of this needs to continue for faults and flaws to be corrected.

You can therefore identify why players will not progress to their best if they simply don't practice and correct as they go.

In the same way a guided missile continually corrects its course as it goes to hit the target, a player must work on developing his skills and ironing out mistakes that reduce his capability to be excellent.

A baby falls over an average 127 times before it learns to walk. We have this inherent ability to learn, as long as the teacher is prepared to be patient. People must realise that keeping going when the going is hard and slow - that is patience. Too often we expect fast results and instant success.

oronnya
May 8, 2012, 10:10 AM
Ok, I absolutely love this thread.. I really hope that Shakib get to read this ..

There is no question about how much we fans love him.. Shakib is our pride and more importantly it's him who is bearing the burden of the team on his young shoulder for quite a long time now and performing day in and day out.. We are grateful and happy for that ..

BUT I do want Shakib to go over and above to use his potential to the fullest.. It's not our demand it's a request from the fans to our very best player !!!

Ian pointed out some nice points that what is the average of some other world class batsman and where does he stand.. Yes, he is an all rounder but we can clearly see that he is sooooo capable of getting to an average 45+ .. I always wonder why does both Shakib and Tamim gets out just after reaching their 50s .. I think we get the answer after looking at them at the field.. Both of them looks sooo damn tired after playing 20 over or so that you can tell from their body language that they will get out soon and we know that most of the time they gets out to some silly mistakes on their end.. They just lose their concentration.. They really don't look fit to stay at the middle for full 50 overs and more (for test)

I don't agree with the point that Shakib needs to train more to set an example.. As someone said above that a well determined and ambitious cricketer will very well know what to follow from a great player and what not to.. Shakib himself said he follows many cricketers for different reasons but he doesn't have a role model.. So Shakib doesn't have to be a role model and do stuffs so other doesn't get a wrong message..Every player should be responsible for their own act and they shouldn't blame their role model because if they do their career is doomed then and there.. Like if Shahadat, Ashraful, or some others points finger at Shakib and say he didn't train then why should we? Yes that's a valid allegation but hey first put your acts together before pointing your finger at someone.. If you don't want to work hard and bring in an excuse of some best players of the team not training then loss is yours.. Cause not everyone can afford to skip training and put up an excellent show on the field..

So my point is Shakib doesn't have to work harder to just set an example rather he should work hard for his own betterment, for him to reach the heights of some greats of the game .. Once he does that the example will be automatically set..

What I believe If I reach one summit I should aim for the next big one.. Just push yourself to the extent that you surpass all the records.. You should never get complacent and satisfied.. I know Shakib is never satisfied with his performance that's the reason he is doing so well but if you are capable of so much then why not push yourself little more to achieve more !!

cricket_pagol
May 8, 2012, 01:25 PM
Excellent thread! Coach, thanks for the fascinating insights.

Tiger-ess
May 8, 2012, 01:48 PM
As a nation, we are generally quite lazy. all we like to do is eat Bhaat and take naps. thats the problem.

betaar
May 8, 2012, 01:50 PM
The staggering number of comments “to leave Shakib alone due to his class as a player despite his laziness to train” is the under lying reason why <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comhttp://www.banglacricket.com/alochona/ /><st1:country-region alt=</st1:country-region><st1:place w:st="on">Bangladesh</st1:place> as a country is at the bottom of the list of everything that can be measured.
People of our culture just do not get it. There is no downside of “hard work”. If one is good at something they will get better by working hard. It is as simple as that. Whether it is Shakib or Tendulkar, as soon as a player forgets the value of hard work, they jeopardize their very existence. Yes talent can make up for lack of hard work to earn certain achievements, in Shakib’s case #1 all rounder, but is that the best he could do? What’s wrong with working hard and fulfilling his true potential?<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comhttp://www.banglacricket.com/alochona/ /><o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></P><P><FONT color=black><FONT face=And for some of the hard headed folks, this thread may have started with Shakib but it’s not just about Shakib. He’s simply a metaphor. Nobody, how great they are at whatever they do, should devalue the meaning of hard-work, especially when they become the inspiration of a nation.

zinatf
May 8, 2012, 03:02 PM
Ok, I absolutely love this thread.. I really hope that Shakib get to read this ..

There is no question about how much we fans love him.. Shakib is our pride and more importantly it's him who is bearing the burden of the team on his young shoulder for quite a long time now and performing day in and day out.. We are grateful and happy for that ..

BUT I do want Shakib to go over and above to use his potential to the fullest.. It's not our demand it's a request from the fans to our very best player !!!

Ian pointed out some nice points that what is the average of some other world class batsman and where does he stand.. Yes, he is an all rounder but we can clearly see that he is sooooo capable of getting to an average 45+ .. I always wonder why does both Shakib and Tamim gets out just after reaching their 50s .. I think we get the answer after looking at them at the field.. Both of them looks sooo damn tired after playing 20 over or so that you can tell from their body language that they will get out soon and we know that most of the time they gets out to some silly mistakes on their end.. They just lose their concentration.. They really don't look fit to stay at the middle for full 50 overs and more (for test)

I don't agree with the point that Shakib needs to train more to set an example.. As someone said above that a well determined and ambitious cricketer will very well know what to follow from a great player and what not to.. Shakib himself said he follows many cricketers for different reasons but he doesn't have a role model.. So Shakib doesn't have to be a role model and do stuffs so other doesn't get a wrong message..Every player should be responsible for their own act and they shouldn't blame their role model because if they do their career is doomed then and there.. Like if Shahadat, Ashraful, or some others points finger at Shakib and say he didn't train then why should we? Yes that's a valid allegation but hey first put your acts together before pointing your finger at someone.. If you don't want to work hard and bring in an excuse of some best players of the team not training then loss is yours.. Cause not everyone can afford to skip training and put up an excellent show on the field..

So my point is Shakib doesn't have to work harder to just set an example rather he should work hard for his own betterment, for him to reach the heights of some greats of the game .. Once he does that the example will be automatically set..

What I believe If I reach one summit I should aim for the next big one.. Just push yourself to the extent that you surpass all the records.. You should never get complacent and satisfied.. I know Shakib is never satisfied with his performance that's the reason he is doing so well but if you are capable of so much then why not push yourself little more to achieve more !!

Oh good you came. You should see all the above posts.....

mufi_02
May 8, 2012, 03:06 PM
But who said Shakib is lazy? Do we have any reliable source :mad:? I won't take those KK articles for granted. Until I know he is lazy for sure, I don't want to comment :smh:

oronnya
May 8, 2012, 03:35 PM
But who said Shakib is lazy? Do we have any reliable source :mad:? I won't take those KK articles for granted. Until I know he is lazy for sure, I don't want to comment :smh:

he he .. Shakib himself admitted it and all his coaches complained about it.. But I'm sure he realizes the importance of hard work now.. specially spending time at the KKR dressing room might have helped him realize how much more effort does the great players like Kallis/Gautam has to put in to go beyond their limit ..

If Shakib was 35 I wouldn't have bothered with the laziness.. But 25 is a prime age for any cricketer to flourish and Shakib has the ability to be an overachiever !!! Just imagine if he can be number 1 all rounder in both ODI and test with this much effort then how much more can he achieve by pushing himself further..It will be good for him and good for Bangladesh :)

Zeeshan
May 8, 2012, 06:21 PM
Take that Dilscoop. Great thread turning out to be. Good posts by Ian and Doc.

10,000 hours? I can never be a good mathematician (prolly in my entire life i spend like 50 hours)... Also in my ex college they used to say for every 1 hour in class 3 hours must be spent in homework. Psshh.. Guess ultimately it's all about stinky, gamcha morani perspiration and good work ethics like Japanese, Singaporean, etc.. :P

I was about to cite Perelman as a counterexample who solved Poincare in like 2 years but guess it was AFTER he got his phd. So he did basically have that many hours clocking in at the end.

This thread is making my aware of my own laziness. (But Manjerekar other day also emphasized loving what you do and when Tendulkar used to clock in like 8 hours a day, he absolutely enjoyed the game). So training cannot be chore either...

Gopal's rec. regiment? Play the BD national team against Steelers, Rams or Saints. Ash can be the QB :floor:

Dilscoop
May 8, 2012, 06:59 PM
I still have issue with the idea behind this thread. Just cuz couple of big names posted some big posts doesn't change that. And they were about Bangladeshis' work ethics. But Shakib is different and that's why he is where he is today.

On topic, you guys sound like Shakib turned into a out of form and shape Akrazamul Haq. I'm "known" for being critical, even I think this is way too critical. Way to take things too literally. We have nothing to worry about (yet).

As for role models, "if you need a role model to live your life, then you shouldn't have been born."

Shakib doesn't have a role model either. They are overrated .

Gowza
May 8, 2012, 07:05 PM
tbh senior players can have a big influence on the younger ones, of course the really focused youngsters will do their own thing anyway and keep on track but it does influence some in a big way.

Roey Haque
May 8, 2012, 10:40 PM
I heard that Sakib practices cricket via Playstation.

rumeur

My jaw dropped. You should sell this one liner. So damn funny!

Roey Haque
May 8, 2012, 10:45 PM
Of course. Not just Shakib, but the Bd team is historically lazy. However, we should be happy that we don't have lazy kingpins like habibul Bashar in our team anymore. That guy was from the kingdom of sloths. As to why the players are lazy, I really don't know. How do them Indians do it? Is it the pressure of having your house lit on fire in case of a bad performance? In that case, a few tanks of kerosene and a butterfly matchbox should come in handy. If pride and glory doesn't motivate you to stay active, fear will!

oronnya
May 8, 2012, 10:52 PM
Of course. Not just Shakib, but the Bd team is historically lazy. However, we should be happy that we don't have lazy kingpins like habibul Bashar in our team anymore. That guy was from the kingdom of sloths. As to why the players are lazy, I really don't know. How do them Indians do it? Is it the pressure of having your house lit on fire in case of a bad performance? In that case, a few tanks of kerosene and a butterfly matchbox should come in handy. If pride and glory doesn't motivate you to stay active, fear will!

BD people by nature are little lazy.. We need bhaat and bhaat ghum..the boys brought up in Dhaka literally has no clue about how to stay organized or do some regular household work (ok there are exceptions) !! chhele poralikha kinba jekono kaaje ettu bhalo korle kothai nei "baba tomar kichhu kora lagbe na tumi poro" .. I think nowadays the parents do the same with their daughter as well..

RazabQ
May 8, 2012, 11:44 PM
In sporting parlance there is a term called "gamer". It's essentially someone who doesn't seem to take practice seriously but on game-day is switched ON. Ian Botham is famous example of that. The guy boozed, partied hard, showed up for practices with wicked hangovers and would still put in world class performances. Perhaps our Shakib is one such gamer - however, since he has NOT showed that kind of single-handed dominance of a Botham, he is better served trying out what the rest of the world does - i.e practice till the cows come home.

Naimul_Hd
May 9, 2012, 12:41 AM
I am too lazy to post something meaningful here....

Seraphen
May 9, 2012, 12:46 AM
I'm simply not getting the fact what's wrong with trying your best? The importance of training can clearly not be overstated?

Gowza
May 9, 2012, 01:08 AM
In sporting parlance there is a term called "gamer". It's essentially someone who doesn't seem to take practice seriously but on game-day is switched ON. Ian Botham is famous example of that. The guy boozed, partied hard, showed up for practices with wicked hangovers and would still put in world class performances. Perhaps our Shakib is one such gamer - however, since he has NOT showed that kind of single-handed dominance of a Botham, he is better served trying out what the rest of the world does - i.e practice till the cows come home.

the great aussie allrounder keith miller did similar things. or so i've read. one thing that i read about miller is that he turned up to a test match with a huge hangover and got 7 wickets before lunch.

anyway there is a point to this thread, the reason this thread was started was to discuss the influence shakib has on the team due to his non-desire to train. YES, surely that does impact the younger players and other players in the team, however any youngster who really wants it will keep his focus and train regardless of what the senior players are doing. in saying that no doubt a few will be impacted negatively by something like this.

Ian Pont
May 9, 2012, 01:40 AM
Whether people like it or not, everyone hangs on what 'star players' do or don't do. They are copied. Just look at the folk on here who have Shakib's pic as their avatar as a tiny example. It's why bat manufacturers pay so much for players to use bats - because others will copy that and buy that product.

The same follows if someone trains the way they train. Others see this and assume it's OK to be the same way. The influence of a 'star' is felt long and deep. If you say to a player: "you should be working hard in the gym and in nets" he can reply "Why should I? Shakib doesn't".

I feel people here underestimate the power of having an icon layer in the Bangladesh team on the others and youngsters coming into the sport. You only have to look at how fans go mad when Shakib even waves, to realise that.

I agree with the comment about about certain players being game players. But don't confuse PREPARATION for a match with DEVELOPING TALENT. Botham (who I know well), worked extremely hard at his game to get to this level and then enjoyed his life as he went along.

And we have to remember this was the 1980's when gym work was never done by any player and there was a drinking and smoking culture in society generally. When Keith Miller played (1950s) there was no sort of emphasis on fitness at all. There were still 'gentlemen and players' with a private school mentality and the MCC running cricket. Bangladesh didn't even exist so we are talking of a time more than 60 years ago. 2012 is a completely different time. Sir Ian wouldn't last in today's physical world as he was and he would have had to have done the training. That's because the England team require it or you miss out, regardless. Samit Patel comes to mind....

I just wonder what positive message it would send to everyone if we saw Shakib running laps of the pitch, working out in the gym, bowling at a set of stumps in the nets on his own and being the first to, and last from practice? As others have said here, he is where he is without doing any of this.

There is either a team work ethic or there is not. Imagine how you might feel as coach if certain senior players were having lunch while the rest of the team trained hard, as an example situation? If you guys recall this was allegedly one incident in a string of events that led to Shakib and Tamim losing their captaincy and vice captaincy following the awful and ill-fated Zimbabwe tour.

It's all in the past and everyone has moved on but Stuart will have had to deal with those moments. For individuals who are talented then, should a coach/team/management make allowances and let them be lazy?

This isn't just about one player in the end. I think it's about being a team. The team is always far bigger than any individual.

Gowza
May 9, 2012, 01:52 AM
yes it's not good at all that senior players or any player/s for that matter are having lunch while the rest train. on top of that hearing that grant has made time to work with players and they just snub him and don't turn up is horrible and ridiculous. if you don't want to be professional get lost because those coaches could be helping players who actually want to be helped and want to improve and work hard.

i can just imagine everyone blaming grant for the players being unfit when he's put aside time only for them to not turn up and for him to take the heat when they aren't properly fit.

BengaliPagol
May 9, 2012, 02:01 AM
We wonder why talented players like aftab, alok etc become lost. I think laziness is the key. Aftab said he doesnt like to train. Is laziness why we lose so many talented players? Is laziness why we are ranked below the big guys in the world. I think so.
We are really lucky that Shakib is overly talented or else we wouldve lost him with the other ones.

We wonder why Tamim keeps doing the same mistakes. Is it because they dont work hard enough on improvement? Is this why Bangladesh arent a consistent team?

Many talented bd players become lost and have a fall from grace. We have to admit that the list is never ending. Is this because they become lazy? I think so, it makes sense why so many talented players seem to become myths.

It all comes together.

Gowza
May 9, 2012, 02:04 AM
We wonder how many talented playes like aftab, alok etc are lost? I think laziness is the key. Aftab said he doesnt like to train. Is laziness why we lose so many talented players? Is laziness why we are ranked below the big guys in the world. I think so.
We are really lucky that Shakib is overly talented or else we wouldve lost him with the other ones.

We wonder why Tamim keeps doing the same mistakes. Is it because they dont work hard enough on improvement? Is why Bangladesh arent a consistent team?

Many talented bd players become lost and have a fall from grace. We have to admit that the list is never ending. Is this because they become lazy? I think so, it makes sense why so many talented players seem to be myths.

It all comes together.
<br />Posted via BC Mobile Edition (Opera Mobile)

yes well we often see them do well in u19s, do well domestically then get to the national team, pull in a couple of good performances early on and then go downhill from there. seems like the goal is just to make the team and not necessarily succeed once there.....

BengaliPagol
May 9, 2012, 02:07 AM
yes well we often see them do well in u19s, do well domestically then get to the national team, pull in a couple of good performances early on and then go downhill from there. seems like the goal is just to make the team and not necessarily succeed once there.....

Not trying to suceed at top level cricket is being lazy. This makes sense. Laziness is putting the team down.
<br />Posted via BC Mobile Edition (Opera Mobile)

Sohel
May 9, 2012, 02:14 AM
Echoing Ian's post here, Shakib should realize a couple of basic facts:

1) He'll become an even better player if and when he finds a better way to "stay loose" other than simply being lazy. "Active rest" when not preparing for a particular series or tournament is the way to go IMHO.

2) Not everyone has the immense talent and strength of character Shakib has been blessed with -- though they or some of their tragically misguided fans may think otherwise (solid technique/exquisite timing/top class ODI-test opener) -- and won't get away with what Shakib gets away with in the middle. A lazy Shakib, being the best Bangladeshi player to date, sets a bad example for younger guys coming into international cricket and in the pipeline.

We have a cricket culture where guys don't work hard on their own to begin with, I think only Ashraful of all people does, and Shakib's laziness gives more false excuses to procrastinate and underachieve.

oronnya
May 9, 2012, 02:44 AM
Ok, I was 100% supporting the fact that Shakib needs to work harder to achieve more..

But now we are like blaming him for the entire team being lazy !!!

When Shakib-Tamim-Mushy started whom did they follow? Ashraful? May be they did but they were well aware of what not to follow from him and that's how they became more successful than Ashraful.. Same with our next generation of cricketers..They have to know their strength and limitations rather than just blindly copying them.. Some people get it in one shot and some needs to practice thousand times.. Now Shakib is not that brilliant that he gets everything right in one shot.. Of course he had to practice.. Otherwise how did he overcome many of his shortcomings?? He himself said despite being lazy he is a determined player and if he had to fix something he goes above and beyond to do that.. So let's just not say he is here today only based on his talents.. He doesn't have half the talent that Ashraful has.. So he does his fair share of hard work..that's how he have been improving day by day.. But of course he can do more and he realizes that as per his interview..

Ian Pont
May 9, 2012, 02:50 AM
We wonder why talented players like aftab, alok etc become lost. I think laziness is the key. Aftab said he doesnt like to train. Is laziness why we lose so many talented players? Is laziness why we are ranked below the big guys in the world. I think so.
We are really lucky that Shakib is overly talented or else we wouldve lost him with the other ones.

We wonder why Tamim keeps doing the same mistakes. Is it because they dont work hard enough on improvement? Is this why Bangladesh arent a consistent team?

Many talented bd players become lost and have a fall from grace. We have to admit that the list is never ending. Is this because they become lazy? I think so, it makes sense why so many talented players seem to become myths.

It all comes together.


And finally the penny drops.... :clap:

There is a saying: if you keep on doing what you've been doing, then you will keep on getting what you've been getting. So if the national team wants to perform better, then this has to be changed.

The board will go round and round looking for 'suitable' head coaches. A coach stays a year or so then leaves. The team goes up a bit, the team goes down a bit. Nothing really changes. Bigger names come to run the cricket. More money is spent. Fans speculate. Media makes up stories. Everyone gets excited. "Bangladesh is going to win the world cup now". Coaches arrive saying "there is a huge amount of talent in the country". A win or two against a higher ranked side. Losses to associates. People try to work out if the coaches are good enough. "Give them more time". Players come and go. Some stay when they shouldn't.

There is one thing that doesn't change though and now we are getting to the answer at last.

The truth is, any professional coach could take the national team and make it into something better. But no professional coach will ever make a lasting impact unless the cricket attitude changes.

oronnya
May 9, 2012, 02:55 AM
So BD team is full of some lazy losers???

max410
May 9, 2012, 03:19 AM
dont forget SHakib also studies in AIUB (university) maybe he is giving time to that as well besides training maybe he gives time to other things in life and he probably trains as much as he needs to but its important overall to keep training

oronnya
May 9, 2012, 03:36 AM
dont forget SHakib also studies in AIUB (university) maybe he is giving time to that as well besides training maybe he gives time to other things in life and he probably trains as much as he needs to but its important overall to keep training

mmm that shouldn't be a reason as the other players have some other priorities in life as well (Like Mushy his doing is Master's )

But saying Shakib has reached the level where he is today only based on his talents and no hard work is like belittling his achievements !! We all know what sort of player he was when he started his career .. He was never considered as the next big thing.. But he improved his game with each passing year.. Take the example of the Pak series .. In the ODIs his batting was simply poor but then he came back with a 144 in the test.. I don't think he achieved that without practice and hard work..He does work hard whenever he feels like he needs to improve in certain area.. Not everyone enjoys the traditional style of education/training .. Rabi Thakur hated going to school but at the end was he any less knowledgeable than the others who did? Having said that I do want Shakib to take those taining/practice session more seriously as that will help him to grow as a solid cricketer..

Maysun
May 9, 2012, 03:59 AM
Our players should perhaps read this before they go for training

"The worst thing I can be is the same as everybody else. I hate that." - Arnold Schwarzenegger

BengaliPagol
May 9, 2012, 04:18 AM
The truth is, any professional coach could take the national team and make it into something better. But no professional coach will ever make a lasting impact unless the cricket attitude changes.

I had a feeling this was going on in the team. The attitude just isnt there. People who say that the coaches have to work the attitude out in the team is wrong. The coach cant change the attitude of the team. The team have to have the attitude in themselves.

This is why i opened up the thread. To find out if Shakibs laziness is bad because coaches seem to mention about it. And second of all if its affecting the playing group as a whole. I think we have found the answer.

I dont know how this issue will be resolved though. They cant keep us fans waiting for results...

playmaker
May 9, 2012, 04:24 AM
Lazy or not shakib is shakib, yes, he should practice a bit more but he has something called confidence. He is one kind of player who will jump onto the scene and make sure that He will dominate. Guys like Imrul, SN, and few others have worked so hard, where is the result? Its a matter of determination.

We should be more worried of our players attitude rather than thinking about their work ethic

BengaliPagol
May 9, 2012, 04:31 AM
Lazy or not shakib is shakib, yes, he should practice a bit more but he has something called confidence. He is one kind of player who will jump onto the scene and make sure that He will dominate. Guys like Imrul, SN, and few others have worked so hard, where is the result? Its a matter of determination.

We should be more worried of our players attitude rather than thinking about their work ethic

Maybe guys like Imrul didnt work hard enough to improve. They also do not have the talent to be as good as Shakib. Hence they dont have the results

Gowza
May 9, 2012, 04:35 AM
also shakib is like a poineer for BD cricket, he's gone through doors that no other BD player has been able to e.g. ipl, county cricket, world #1. the bad thing is when he goes to county cricket and doesn't train because everyone will base the BD attitude on his. so now the county circuit know that shakib doesn't like to train, it a) makes it harder for shakib to actually get a county contract for himself and b) it quite possibly will make it harder for other BD players to get a contract because county teams will think that BD players aren't as dedicated as other players and they won't want to watse one of their overseas spot's.

BengaliPagol
May 9, 2012, 04:50 AM
it quite possibly will make it harder for other BD players to get a contract because county teams will think that BD players aren't as dedicated as other players and they won't want to watse one of their overseas spot's.

Spot on :up:

He is the advocate of Bangladesh Cricket.

oronnya
May 9, 2012, 04:52 AM
Maybe guys like Imrul didnt work hard enough to improve. They also do not have the talent to be as good as Shakib. Hence they dont have the results

What about Ashraful?? He has the talent and he works hard !!! Still doesn't get the result!!

If others can point finger at Shakib and says he doesn't work hard then Shakib can do the same by pointing fingers at senior players like Ash and say working hard didn't benefit the players of Ash's talent.. So foget about the tend setting.. Each player is different and requires different amount of effort ..Also the grey matter has to be there to realize their strengths and weaknesses and play accordingly..They can't just blame their role model for their incompetancy..

Shakib is lazy only by his standard and he can achieve so much more by putting in that extra bit of effort..

Ian Pont
May 9, 2012, 05:14 AM
I don't think anyone is blaming Shakib for the team. Without Shakib at the moment the side would not be even close to what it is.

The overall point being made is this:

1. Shakib could be far better than he is
2. People look up to Shakib, so what he does is often (mistakenly) copied by others
3. A professional team always has to work hard as a unit to get better
4. Before you can improve what you do you have to acknowledge responsibility for it
5. When you are a 'professional' at anything you shouldn't have an amateur attitude to just get by and do as little as you can - however wonderful you are

There are always unique players. There are always those who do things totally against what you would expect. Some have success despite being different. Let's celebrate that. But it is not a working model for everyone else.

I feel posters on BCF are starting to realise the difficulty successive coaches have had in Bangladesh. You can be a coaching success outside of BD but find it tough to make inroads with the BD team.

People who work hard without talent, are a coaching dream. People who are talented but don't work hard, are a coaching nightmare.

BengaliPagol
May 9, 2012, 05:28 AM
People who work hard without talent, are a coaching dream. People who are talented but don't work hard, are a coaching nightmare.

So coaching the Bangladesh Cricket Team is a coaches nightmare?

Tiger444
May 9, 2012, 07:54 AM
Solid post. :up:

Those of us working in biomechanics (movement of the body) teach 10,000 repetitions for muscle memory to be correctly learned. It simply means if you want to make a particular skill 'natural' (or change something to be natural) it takes 10,000 repetitions of it. It would explain why doing way less than this leads to it being inconsistent under pressure.

How many times have fans come on here and said "so and so doesn't move his feet" or that "such and such a player played some crazy shot"? The reason is they have not practiced what the OUGHT to do enough (nets) and therefore will constantly go out and under perform.

When you are under pressure you revert to what your sub-conscious has learned and done all day long. You teach the changes by training the changes over that length of time.

Test batting averages, which are the genuine measure of a batsman's skill, whilst they don't tell the whole story certainly tell a large part of it.

"World Class" batsmen: Kallis 57.44, Sangakarra 56.25, Tendulkar 56.02, Trott 55.75, Younis Khan 53.20, Ponting 53,44, Sehwag 52.21 explain why they are where they are.

A random sample of Bangladesh batsmen: Shakib 34.68, Tamim 38.00, Nasir 29.58, Ash 22.60, Nazimmudin 30.25, Imrul 17.15 explain why they are where they are. Plus we have to remember that the Bangladesh stats are mostly against lesser ranked teams too.

Matt Prior who bats at 7 for England, averages 43.09 in Tests as a comparison.

Only the Bangladesh players can do something about that. If players are happy just to be in the side then there's not much hope. If they want to become the best they can, then the coaches can make something of them.

To be the best, you have to beat the best - consistently, day in, day out. It starts on the training ground and in the gym. The coaches have always been there to help.

Whenever someone points the finger of blame at someone else, always look where his other fingers are pointing.

Coach Ian, your posts have been great to read as usual on this thread. However, I believe that this comparison of the world class batsmen with our batsmen is like comparing apples to oranges. Some of those guys you just mentioned are legends of the game or are future legends whereas our guys are still works in progress.

I know that people are sick and tired of this excuse but our batsmen are still very young and I see other young batsmen around the world having problems in the Test version of the game as well. Chris Rogers of Australia just wrote a long article about how the likes of Hughes, Khawaja, and Marsh have all struggled. Then you also see how Raina, Vijay, Mukund of India have all struggled in the Test arena as well. Shafiq and Umar Akmal of Pakistan have also underachieved. Then Barath, Brathwaite and Powell of West Indies have all struggled as well. And I'm sure the younger guys of South Africa and England would struggle as well when they come in to Tests as well.

Our team is more on display because we don't have a single batsman that's above the age of 30 whereas all these teams I just mentioned still have experienced batsmen. It still does not change the fact that all these young guys in world cricket are just flat out struggling. You're an expert so you would obviously understand better then me but it seems that the problem of this generation's batsmen has been that their too focused on more innovative ways to score their runs rather then focusing on art of a defensive technique. Therefore you see a lot of brain fades and basic technical flaws. So I feel the Bangladeshi batsmen are just a sample size to a much bigger problem in world cricket.

betaar
May 9, 2012, 11:04 AM
There is either a team work ethic or there is not. Imagine how you might feel as coach if certain senior players were having lunch while the rest of the team trained hard, as an example situation? If you guys recall this was allegedly one incident in a string of events that led to Shakib and Tamim losing their captaincy and vice captaincy following the awful and ill-fated Zimbabwe tour.

It's all in the past and everyone has moved on but Stuart will have had to deal with those moments. For individuals who are talented then, should a coach/team/management make allowances and let them be lazy?

This isn't just about one player in the end. I think it's about being a team. The team is always far bigger than any individual.

Oh Ian, you just touched a pinch nerve and I totally understand your pain. I am neither professional coach, nor a professional player but I have been part of this amateur cricket club that I started, along with 3 friends, here in US. Being part of the club for the last 12 years and having being the captain for 7 years, I have seen and lived these issues. There are no comparisons in terms or skills and professionalism between an amateur and professional team but the core success totally relies on hard work. No team would succeed without hard work.
Being in US, our club consists of expats mainly from <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comhttp://www.banglacricket.com/alochona/ /><st1:country-region alt=</st1:country-region>Bangladesh, <st1:country-region w:st="on">India</st1:country-region>, <st1:country-region w:st="on">Pakistan</st1:country-region>, Srilanka, <st1:place w:st="on">West Indies</st1:place> and some other countries. It’s very challenging to uphold values from one particular culture other than the culture of hard work. But every year there are 1 or 2 players that will disrupt that very culture and make the team suffer.
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comhttp://www.banglacricket.com/alochona/ /><o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></P><P><FONT color=black><FONT face=Being a captain of an amateur team means you have to lead, manage and coach people. I am not the best player of the team but I try to be the best in motivating them by working hard. But a team full of amateur who pays to play cricket in their leisure becomes very challenging to motivate and messages go to deaf ears.
In 2010 we had the worst year when the last game of the 40 over league was the relegation decider. For the first in 9 years we felt the pressure and the team somehow managed to win that match and saved our selves from being relegated. Having saved the blushes the team got together and decided that something got to give. We started working hard and we went to the quarter-final of the 20 over league in that same year.
<o:p></o:p>
In 2011 we worked even harder, practicing in temps like 38 Fahrenheit in late spring of Minnesota and up to 106 degree or mid summer days. We not only went to the semi final of the 40 over league undefeated, we won the T20 championship undefeated. From 2010 when we played that last all important decider we played 24 games till the end 2011 and only lost 2. What a turn around for a team and it was all possible for the hard work that everyone put in.
<o:p></o:p>
I know my team can do even better if they worked even harder. But it’s always the best players of my team that are not willing to do the extra bit. And I cannot just blame it on any particular culture or country; as if it’s the way of the talented players. The most talented players in my team don’t want to work hard and will always resist and set bad examples to new comers. These are such sore subjects for me a as a captain and motivator that it just gets my angry juices flowing every time I see or hear situations like the one we are discussing here in BC.
<o:p></o:p>
These icon players have so much more to give to the team than just their performances. It’s a shame that they don’t realize it or act on it. There’s nothing more disheartening than seeing someone who does not fulfill his true potential due to lack of hard work. <o:p></o:p>

Navo
May 9, 2012, 11:38 AM
@Tiger444, the difference is the players you're mentioning from other teams don't even have half the match experience that Shakib-Tamim-Mushy does.

BD Rox
May 9, 2012, 01:43 PM
I bet such things wouldn't have been tolerated at the Australian camp, no matter how big you are.

Spot on!:up:

BD Rox
May 9, 2012, 01:44 PM
I heard that Sakib practices cricket via Playstation.

rumeur

WHAT!:lol:

BengaliPagol
May 10, 2012, 05:40 AM
We just hope Shakib puts in that extra work for the team.

Did the senior players have lunch while everyone else was training hard? If its true then i am disgusted. That sort of attitude is not on. We seriously have to look upto champion teams like Australia and see what they do to win matches.

Tipu606
May 13, 2012, 05:47 AM
why bother what Shakib does off the field? lazy or active, what he had for breakfast should not be our concern !!

shakibrulz
May 13, 2012, 06:16 AM
No. Will post in detail later.

BengaliPagol
May 13, 2012, 07:30 AM
why bother what Shakib does off the field? lazy or active, what he had for breakfast should not be our concern !!

Shakib Al Hasan. The best cricketer Bangladesh has ever produced. He is the face of Bangladesh. He is the best allrounder in the world. Sponsors are crazy for him, ladies adore him, men respect him and young cricketers strive to be just like him. Now this great player doesnt train hard. Admitted himself that he is probably the laziest person in the team. Does this ring a bell about another person that said the similar thing? Thats right Aftab Ahmed. He also said that he didnt like training. Being successful is about training hard. But the difference between Shakib and Aftab is that Shakib is much more talented.

This sends out the wrong message to everyone. Work hard, play hard. That should be the motto. Shakib is 24 i think. He should at the peak of his fitness right now. If he doesnt train at this age then what will happen if he is 30?

His laziness also affects team morale. Eating lunch while the whole team is training is pretty dissapointing thing to do. We need to change this. Shakib needs to change thee mainstream Bengali thinking which is to be lazy.
<br />Posted via BC Mobile Edition (Opera Mobile)

Zunaid
May 13, 2012, 07:35 AM
No. Will post in detail later.

This is not just about Shakib but about what being a professional is all about. You have a responsibility that transcends yourself. When you do post in detail later, I hope you've actually read through the past 3/4 pages of insightful comments on this issue.

kalpurush
May 13, 2012, 07:37 AM
This sends out the wrong message to everyone. Work hard, play hard. That should be the motto. Shakib is 24 i think. He should at the peak of his fitness right now. If he doesnt train at this age then what will happen if he is 30?

His laziness also affects team morale. Eating lunch while the whole team is training is pretty dissapointing thing to do. We need to change this. Shakib needs to change thee mainstream Bengali thinking which is to be lazy.

Posted via BC Mobile Edition (Opera Mobile)
I beg to differ here. I do believe hard work pays off, though, everyone has his/her own style of doing things. If someone is hungry, you can't blame him for having lunch! After all, you can't practice if you are hungry, or do you?? :)

BengaliPagol
May 13, 2012, 07:51 AM
I beg to differ here. I do believe hard work pays off, though, everyone has his/her own style of doing things. If someone is hungry, you can't blame him for having lunch! After all, you can't practice if you are hungry, or do you?? :)

Shakib is extremely talented. No doubt about tht. But im worried about the future.
<br />Posted via BC Mobile Edition (Opera Mobile)

oronnya
May 13, 2012, 12:51 PM
Shakib Al Hasan. The best cricketer Bangladesh has ever produced. He is the face of Bangladesh. He is the best allrounder in the world. Sponsors are crazy for him, ladies adore him, men respect him and young cricketers strive to be just like him. Now this great player doesnt train hard. Admitted himself that he is probably the laziest person in the team. Does this ring a bell about another person that said the similar thing? Thats right Aftab Ahmed. He also said that he didnt like training. Being successful is about training hard. But the difference between Shakib and Aftab is that Shakib is much more talented.

This sends out the wrong message to everyone. Work hard, play hard. That should be the motto. Shakib is 24 i think. He should at the peak of his fitness right now. If he doesnt train at this age then what will happen if he is 30?

His laziness also affects team morale. Eating lunch while the whole team is training is pretty dissapointing thing to do. We need to change this. Shakib needs to change thee mainstream Bengali thinking which is to be lazy.
<br />Posted via BC Mobile Edition (Opera Mobile)

No Shakib is not that talented .. Shakib started his career with pretty simple skills and technique.. It was his hard work, determination and dedication that took him to the position where he is today..

Yes I agree he can do much more better by working even harder.. But let's just not tag him as a lazy person.. We should remember he is lazy only by his standard.. each person is different and requires different level of training or approach to his work..say for me I never enjoy going to classes as most of the time I find the teachers boring but when I study the same topic by myself or do the research I find it much more interesting and that helps me to do well in the exams.. Same for many people who doesn't even study 2/3 days before the exam., I remember one of my friend used to play before exam but he always topped in his class.. Not that he was super genius it's just he used to study regularly as he don't like to take the tension before the exam.. So different preparation technique works for different people..

At the end it is the result that matters.. Shakib is not bringing out the extraordinary performance into display without proper input.. We don't really have to worry about him being lazy as in reality he is definitely not that lazy... He is doing his job alright., It's just we want him to put that extra bit both for his team and his own betterment..

meazz1
May 13, 2012, 12:56 PM
just because Shakib said he is the laziest person does not mean he is. He said this to put everyone above him.
If he was the laziest among all the players, he would not be where he is now.

TigerEz
May 13, 2012, 01:08 PM
who cares if he is lazy...goodness...atleast he does the job

and im pretty sure shakib will be unlazy when he thinks he needs too

oronnya
May 13, 2012, 01:21 PM
Don't you guys think we are asking too much just from one man ?? Isn't he already doing more than enough job for an all rounder?

Let's see Shakib Al Hasan's job description:

1.Have to be the best batsman of the country
2.Have to be the best bowler of the country
3.Have to be the best fielder
4.If the entire team fails he has to be the one to bail out and if the team lose it has to be him who will have to take the responsibility of the loss
5.Have to maintain his best All rounder status in the world
6.Have to be very diplomatic
7.Have to be the role model for the younger generation:
a)So should be the most hard working person in the team (come early for training and be the last person to leave)
b)Should be friends with each and every team member
c)Should be friends with media people and give all the juicy news that they want
8.Have to be humble, kind or all the adjectives we can think for a saint


Yes that's all we demand from him.. No matter what he does we ask more from him .. It's ok to expect more as He is the best.. but we should remember he is not a saint who have to be perfect in each and every department .. It's a tough job description even for a saint... Let's give this man his space and let him shine.. I'm all for encouraging him to go that extra mile.. but such discussion where people are tagging him as a "Lazy person" might just discourage him.. The laziness factor would have been worrisome if he was out of form.. But he is not..

zinatf
May 13, 2012, 01:29 PM
^Reminds me of a saying from one of my friends "Shakib's much MORE important for Bangladesh than Tendulkar's for India"

simon
May 13, 2012, 01:38 PM
a player can be a bit lazy compared to others but they are all professionals,there is a coach who is monitoring them so no chance of getting away with it, what i am trying to say is Sakib might be a little lazier than others but not that lazy that it might affect his performance.
so no need to be worried.
what is usually more alarming is when a plyer becomes complacent or gets too satisfied with himself.
as we know Sak is not complacent nor easy to satisfy type of playa.he is hungry for success and always looks to improve.
<br />Posted via BC Mobile Edition (Android)

Tigers_eye
May 13, 2012, 05:19 PM
You don't get the point do you? Forget about the role model crap but Shakib is a supposed to be a professional athlete and a professional is always sharpening and hoing his skills to want to do better than he can. Just because he is so very good, a class away from the rest of the players (yes, even Tamim), he can get away with it, and he so very good even on a world level that he can coast without the hard work. Imagine if he did put the effort?
No Doc,
I get it and surprised why you are on the other (dark) side still.

For all folks (who have nothing better to do),
1) What makes you think he hasn't trying to improve his skills? This accusation is bad unless you have certain proof. How many practice session has he missed for KKR, BD, Khulna, Abahani, Victoria, Wshire in the nets?

I remember only one instances where he wanted join the team later while coming from overseas and going to photo shoot. That is the only incident I can recall of his misstep on training.

2) What Law/Pont are talking about is totally different of what you guys are accusing of. They are talking about physical training to get better endurance, strength, stamina and may be speed in the off season. Well, last four years when did he have a off season?

Lazy? Come on, non-stop cricket for the last four plus years and he is lazy? Had he gained a bhuri like Tamim - Mashrafe - Ashraful - Alok you could have a small prayer.

Good thing he has the brains not to over burden his body which you want to impose on him. He is a BKSP product. He for one knows the value of training hard (and honing on new skills).

No BD player played half the matches Shakib played in last four years. He needs to keep his training shedule as minimal as possible in order to be fit for the next 10 years and not injure himself by over training and not much rest.

You have to understand when to train hard and when to back off. With non-stop cricket he is playing he needs to back off a little from the physical training that Coach Law suggested. Good thing his cricketing brains are thousand times better than the arm chair alrounders we have at BC.

BengaliPagol
July 12, 2013, 12:45 AM
Amar hone hoi kano Shakib din din ato bhalo kelche na because oh to ektu lazy...

After injuries and stuff he "maybe" didn't work as hard as he should have to get to his best. But that's my assumption. Or maybe he just doesn't have the momentum with him atm.

al-Sagar
July 12, 2013, 04:48 PM
DOOMED or NOT ???

BengaliPagol
July 12, 2013, 05:32 PM
He survives today.

jeesh
July 12, 2013, 10:25 PM
Would love to see him retire with 8000+ ODI runs and 350+ wickets. That would mean he will end up one of the best ODI all rounders of all time ahead of Ian Botham, Kapil Dev, Pollock, Imran Khan, Flintoff etc. I mean statistics wise, so please dont launch an assault on how dare i compare Shakib with these legends. Only Jayasuriya and Kallis would be ahead of him.

He's still 26, and only played 129 ODI's. Kallis has played 321 ODI's, Jayasuriya 445. I do hope Shakib plays for another decade or so. He'll definitely get there. But to play till you are 35 or 36 isnt easy and sth rare in Bangladeshi cricket. Most of the time injuries, poor fitness come into play. Younger players will also challenge. So Shakib will have to continue to work very hard.

In the 90's, Sri Lanka cricket had this issue. Guys like Ranatunga and De Silva would come to practice sessions, pad up go directly to the nets, enjoy batting practice and quietly escape the tougher fitness, fielding drills. Dav Whatmore challenged that, changed that. Today Sangakkara demonstrates the opposite. At 35 he is still going strong. Its not just his natural talent, he still continues to work very hard at his game. A perfectionist who never stops learning. Here's an interesting read on what i am trying to explain http://www.espncricinfo.com/sri-lanka-v-bangladesh-2013/content/story/624169.html

Lesson in it for Shakib or any other Bangladeshi cricketers. You dont get there only with talent. You have to back it up with pure old fashioned hard work

BengaliPagol
July 12, 2013, 11:16 PM
Well said Jeesh bhai. The problem is i dont see him putting hardwork into training. TImmy Cahill once said "sacrifice is the key. No one becomes a great footballer without training, by just turning up. No-one is that talented. Even the best players in the world train hard everyday to stay where they are". Cahill also said that when he was young he sacrificed school dances, outings, discos etc. just for "training". That shows the dedication he has for the sport. Although he was talking about football the same can be said for any sport.

He sacrificed all these stuff now he has achieved great things over his career. He might not be in the elite bracket of footballers but it shows the hardwork he had to do just to be one of the good players in the league.

I dont see this coming from Shakib...

Zeeshan
July 12, 2013, 11:37 PM
Well I stick to what I said before, clothed in a rubbish post, ie the EMOTIONAL qualities are important: play, enjoy, passion, love...etcetera all those "tuttyfrutiy" nebulous vague stuff.

I often mention us military here and I was once extremely surprised to see that snipers and marines mention that one of the qualities a good soldier must possess is inquisitiveness. I mean one doesn't actually equate creativity with frikkin sniping or push ups y'know.

I disagree with jeesh. Hard work without spirit or motivation will make you deadwood, and every day will seem like a chore.

Note, smartest players actually works least, but - well- smartest. Great players were also pioneers like Ranjitsingh, Larwood with bodyline, Mendis carom, Mushtaq's googly and what not.

khali ghadar moton roder niche khellei to aar hobe na, matha khatate hobe - jungel proverb

So back to the inquisitiveness, an athlete needs to apply his brain and find his own space (which Shakib's aloof nature hints) and be CURIOUS and constantly ask questions on improving his game. As I mentioned here, one should go to far away China if necessary.
(http://www.banglacricket.com/alochona/showthread.php?t=30174&highlight=Socrates)
Also jeesh, one doesn't usually target such records and milestones. They happen. Naturally. Spontaneously. Sure, everyone has his or her goals, but it's like saying: Agar went to crease with a half-c in mind, yesterday.

jeesh
July 13, 2013, 12:40 AM
I never said spirit or motivation should be kept out :P. Mendis didnt develop the carrom ball overnight through his smartness or intelligence. It did take a lot of trial and error and practice. If you dont put in that effort, no matter how bright you are-you will never make it big. Do read Malcom Gladwell's Outliers, you will get an idea of what i mean. An interesting example he mentioned in the book was the case of the Beatles. In his opinion Beatles didnt become Beatles by being four cute boys and having incredible talent. True they had talent but what made them was the 1200 gigs or 10,000 hours of live performance (Before their first record) in strip clubs, bars, pubs, eight hours a day, seven days a week, for months, playing different genres of music. Gladwell says they became the best rehearsed band in the world, they had so much of chemistry, teamwork and understanding which resulted from these long hours of toil. Its the same in sports, business.

I am going to paste a part of the Sangakkara article that really struck me

If Graham Ford and the coaching staff have not already highlighted Sangakkara's work ethic as a paragon of the genre, Sri Lanka's young players are missing a forceful lesson on the dividends of hard work. In his fitness, Sangakkara has been uncompromising, but his attitude towards batting in the nets, where he lurks to take advantage of every free slot long after his allocated time has passed, has been a vital component of his success. When he began in international cricket, his technique to spin was shaky, his stroke-range limited and his footwork imprecise. As Sohag Gazi, Mahmudullah and Elias Sunny found, he has since become one of the most complete batsmen of his generation through persistence.
Source: http://www.espncricinfo.com/sri-lanka-v-bangladesh-2013/content/story/624169.html

I am waiting for the day a reporter writes about our players like this.

Zeeshan
July 13, 2013, 12:46 AM
Fair enough, Jeesh. I guess - and you'd probably agree- what's importance is "good work ethic" rather than "hard work". Look at Rubel and Shahadat. No doubt they like to bowl their hearts out, but still they lack the brains to mix up deliveries and intimidate batsman.

I don't disagree with you; it's just like that "hard work" IMHO has a very very negative connotation. To me it means sawing against the grain. One can punch a cement wall all he likes but he won't break it.

I guess we are quibbling about minor semantics...

jeesh
July 13, 2013, 12:47 AM
In case anyones interested- Beatles Prodigies Or Not

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eHa9n4jbGw

jeesh
July 13, 2013, 12:49 AM
Fair enough, Jeesh. I guess - and you'd probably agree- what's importance is "good work ethic" rather than "hard work". Look at Rubel and Shahadat. No doubt they like to bowl their hearts out, but still they lack the brains to mix up deliveries and intimidate batsman.

I don't disagree with you; it's just like that "hard work" IMHO has a very very negative connotation. To me it means sawing against the grain. One can punch a cement wall all he likes but he won't break it.

I guess we are quibbling about minor semantics...
Yeah thats true. Sth Lehmann is trying to do with Australia. Mixing hard work with fun, making players enjoy the game. Work ethic, talent, intelligence. All things must be there. Ashraful probably had more talent than Sanga, but its the other two things which made Sanga who he is and where Ashraful ended.

BengaliPagol
July 13, 2013, 01:02 AM
By putting in the hardwork you have to be motivated. To be "motivated" you need a lot of passion for the game.