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Sohel
May 21, 2012, 08:26 AM
This is important in oh so many ways. So please vote or onugroho kore bhot din :)

Naimul_Hd
May 21, 2012, 08:32 AM
i have also seen people writing 'vhai' :facepalm:

MohammedC
May 21, 2012, 08:33 AM
[বাংলা]ভাই[/বাংলা]

Using google transliteration I got the same result. But to me "Vai" sounds like "Wai" So I normally write Bhai.

Sohel
May 21, 2012, 08:33 AM
Recently I got texted "Vahiya". Thought it was a typo but subsequent texts proved me wrong.

Sohel
May 21, 2012, 08:34 AM
Please vote guys :)

Isnaad
May 21, 2012, 08:34 AM
'Bhai'. Vai is nowhere close to Bangla.

zinatf
May 21, 2012, 08:35 AM
Bhai! Always spelt it like this.

MohammedC
May 21, 2012, 08:36 AM
Landslide victory by "Bhai"

Sohel
May 21, 2012, 08:36 AM
Yes!An early lead. Keep it coming bhai o bonera and let us bury the opposition nice and early. Show no mercy and leave no doubt.

Isnaad
May 21, 2012, 08:37 AM
Landslide victory by "Bhai"

Onumeeto. Still I am interested to see if 'vai' gets even 1 vote.

Maysun
May 21, 2012, 08:40 AM
Vai looks ugly.. Does that even make sense?

roman
May 21, 2012, 08:42 AM
Bhai for me, but vai doesn't bother..

Sohel
May 21, 2012, 08:43 AM
Ugly and khyat.

Rubu
May 21, 2012, 08:48 AM
'Bhai'. Vai is nowhere close to Bangla.

Vai looks ugly.. Does that even make sense?

I mostly use Bhai, but did use Vai too. None bothers me. But question to you guys, why? Please explain.

To me, in Bengali phonetic there is no difference between "V-" and "Bh-" sound. So, either should be OK. Also, since there is no rule that says any word of a different language needs to be spelled only one way in English, I think either should be fine.

Naimul_Hd
May 21, 2012, 08:49 AM
'Vai' is only applicable for 'Steve' :)

Zunaid
May 21, 2012, 08:56 AM
Bhote quickly. Bhery good pole. (That last one is another pet peeve of mine, not not the bhery the other).

Banglatiger84
May 21, 2012, 08:56 AM
Bhai for me

Anyone who has heard someone pronounce "vulgar' with a bh, will know why its best to segregate and discriminate between v and bh as much as possible, let there be no confusion

Isnaad
May 21, 2012, 08:58 AM
I mostly use Bhai, but did use Vai too. None bothers me. But question to you guys, why? Please explain.

To me, in Bengali phonetic there is no difference between "V-" and "Bh-" sound. So, either should be OK. Also, since there is no rule that says any word of a different language needs to be spelled only one way in English, I think either should be fine.

The Bangla letter 'bho' is pronounced as 'bh' and not 'v'. If we are writing in English letters, I think the closest we can go to the original Bangla pronunciations, the better. This maintains the quality of the language (At least to some extent). Besides, in terms of pronunciation, 'v' and 'bh' are not as close as we think they are.

Isnaad
May 21, 2012, 09:00 AM
Bhote quickly. Bhery good pole. (That last one is another pet peeve of mine, not not the bhery the other).

Lets take this sentence as an example :) English with 'bh' instead of 'v' sounds awkward does it not?
...
Similiarly, Bangla with 'v' instead of 'bh' sounds pretty awkward. :)

Maysun
May 21, 2012, 09:02 AM
'Vai' is only applicable for 'Steve' :)

hahaha nice! :up:

zsayeed
May 21, 2012, 09:03 AM
always written bhai, vai is simply weird.
people who write vai probably says bhery.

Rifat
May 21, 2012, 09:04 AM
vai? I have rarely seen it used...

Sohel
May 21, 2012, 09:08 AM
There is no "V" sound in Bangla. "V" as is vote. The Bangla sound for [বাংলা]ভ[/বাংলা] can and should be written as "bh" in light of the type of Bangla phonology that seeks to preserve rather than pervert authentic sounds for the benefit and ease of those who don't consider speaking Bangla important, i.e. our former colonial masters.

Vai, and I'm not talking about Steve here, in the nouveau riche, nouveau English medium community is quite prevalent and considered stylish. They don't know that the inability to speak ones own language properly is the original expression of khyatami. I don't have issues with Bangladeshis not pronouncing English correctly, English is a second language after all, but deliberately perverting our own language to appear stylistically Anglophile is irritating to say the least.

BTW, the "V" and "Bh" confusion has been sighted as a reason as to why Vodafone is apprehensive about entering the Bangladeshi telecom market.

ammark
May 21, 2012, 09:11 AM
Lost cause. The perpetuation of 'vai' will continue to infinity and beyond. Add to that 'valo' and 'hotovaga' and 'voganti'.

If the originalists could in their day transcribe bangla in the sanskrit sounding way, eg. Babubangla's sig "janani janmabhumi swargadapi gariyasi..."

whats wrong with bastardising bangla into "vaalo asi vaalo theko, akaser thikanay chithi likho"?

Equinox
May 21, 2012, 09:15 AM
I have always said 'bhai.' For some reason 'vai' or 'vy' has always made me cringe.

zsayeed
May 21, 2012, 09:17 AM
I have seen people use Vai in BC - just obnoxious sound.

Maysun
May 21, 2012, 09:23 AM
Waiting for that one soul, who'd vote for Vai

Naimul_Hd
May 21, 2012, 09:29 AM
I have seen people use Vai in BC - just obnoxious sound.

most of them are young guns, who are always on the run, prefer short cuts :)

AsifTheManRahman
May 21, 2012, 09:30 AM
This is important in oh so many ways. So please vote or onugroho kore bhot din :)
Bhot or vote? ;) Just kidding.

Rubu
May 21, 2012, 09:30 AM
OK, did a little bit of research: for starter, there is no "bh sound in english" google auto complete search. But there is one for Hindi. Also, that search did not come up with anything that says how to pronounce bh in English. (please show me a link if I missed that).

Given that I did not miss anything, and that I cannot think of a english word at the moment that uses bh as close to v sound (again I might be missing it, help me out), I am assuming that like many "English" word (Eve Teasing comes to mind as I had a discussion with orphy regarding that), this bh sound was invented in the subcontinent. As such, there is no real basis for it as to how to pronounce it. To me, there is only one "vah" (sorry no bangla keyboard at work) in Bengali and only one "v" in english to replace it.

If that is the case, it actually should be "Vai".

Now, I am interested, where did "bh-" come from?

Purbasha T
May 21, 2012, 09:37 AM
...
BTW, the "V" and "Bh" confusion has been sighted as a reason as to why Vodafone is apprehensive about entering the Bangladeshi telecom market.

:floor: if true :floor:

Bhot or vote? ;) Just kidding.

Vote only please.. lol!

zsayeed
May 21, 2012, 09:39 AM
OK, did a little bit of research: for starter, there is no "bh sound in english" google auto complete search. But there is one for Hindi. Also, that search did not come up with anything that says how to pronounce bh in English. (please show me a link if I missed that).

Given that I did not miss anything, and that I cannot think of a english word at the moment that uses bh as close to v sound (again I might be missing it, help me out), I am assuming that like many "English" word (Eve Teasing comes to mind as I had a discussion with orphy regarding that), this bh sound was invented in the subcontinent. As such, there is no real basis for it as to how to pronounce it. To me, there is only one "vah" (sorry no bangla keyboard at work) in Bengali and only one "v" in english to replace it.

If that is the case, it actually should be "Vai".

Now, I am interested, where did "bh-" come from?

Bh came from phonetics...
See wikipedia alphabet key... IPA
ভ bhô bh /bʱ/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengali_alphabet
IPA: International Phonetic Alphabet (formed by IPA the association since 1888)

Quod Erat Demonstratum

Rubu
May 21, 2012, 09:44 AM
Bh came from phonetics...
See wikipedia alphabet key... IPA
ভ bhô bh /bʱ/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengali_alphabet
IPA: International Phonetic Alphabet

Quod Erat Demonstratum

What is the phonetic sound for "v"?

How is it different from "bh"?

Why for "vah" was "bh" picked instead of "v"?

(keep in mind all legit questions and not rhetorical).

Also, why suddenly use the phonetic instead of roman for writing this one particular word and not for anything else while writing Bengali words in Roman letters.

Also, just for the heck of it, I asked couple native English speakers how to pronounce "bh-". Both had it just live "B".

So, unless the word is more like "bai" and not "vai" (remember, there is nothing at the middle in Bengali alphabet or phonetics), why more people are leaning toward "Bhai"?

Again, I have no preference over one or the other, but the topic interests me and I want to get to the bottom of it.

zsayeed
May 21, 2012, 09:46 AM
What is the phonetic sound for "v"?

How is it different from "bh"?

Why for "vah" was "bh" picked instead of "v"?

(keep in mind all legit questions and not rhetorical).

Also, why suddenly use the phonetic instead of roman for writing this one particular word and not for anything else while writing Bengali words in Roman letters.

Also, just for the heck of it, I asked couple native English speakers how to pronounce "bh-". Both had it just live "B".

So, unless the word is more like "bai" and not "vai" (remember, there is nothing at the middle in Bengali alphabet or phonetics), why more people are leaning toward "Bhai"?

Again, I have no preference over one or the other, but the topic interests me and I want to get to the bottom of it.

V vee /viː/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_alphabet
as opposed to ভ bhô bh /bʱ/

and because Bh is more precise phonetically then vah...

The fricative comes after the consonant not after the stress of the a

As in Bharat not vahrat

and to drive a point home what was wrong with Dacca? fine right?
ঢ đhô đh /ɖʱ/

Rubu
May 21, 2012, 09:51 AM
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Phonetic_Alphabet

I do not see a "bh" phonetic sound there (sub-continent invention?)

Does anyone has a sound bite of how "v" vs "bh" sounds?

Electrequiem
May 21, 2012, 09:52 AM
"Bhagina" or "vagina"?

Got confused one time when some dude posted a picture on Facebook with the caption "amar notun vagina! Ki cute!"

zsayeed
May 21, 2012, 09:57 AM
:floor: :floor: :floor:

zsayeed
May 21, 2012, 09:59 AM
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Phonetic_Alphabet

I do not see a "bh" phonetic sound there (sub-continent invention?)

Does anyone has a sound bite of how "v" vs "bh" sounds?

See:
International Alphabet of Sanskrit Transliteration (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Alphabet_of_Sanskrit_Transliteration )
of 1896

The article you quote explains how to create sounds...does not tabulate all sounds.

Zunaid
May 21, 2012, 09:59 AM
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Phonetic_Alphabet

I do not see a "bh" phonetic sound there (sub-continent invention?)

Does anyone has a sound bite of how "v" vs "bh" sounds?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengali_alphabet

<table class="wikitable"><tbody><tr><td style="font-size:14pt;">ভ</td> <td>Consonant name: bhô</td> <td>Transliteration: bh</td> <td align="center">IPA: /bʱ/</td></tr></tbody></table>

Zunaid
May 21, 2012, 10:02 AM
The V is labiodental. The Bh is bilabial fricative.

Zunaid
May 21, 2012, 10:09 AM
Interestingly most consonants in standard American is pronounced with an aspiration.

So 'K" is usually pronounced more like a 'Kh', "T" in two, more like "[বাংলা]ঠু[/বাংলা]" with our "[বাংলা]ঠ[/বাংলা]sound". They often have difficulty hearing the between, say, [বাংলা]"টিক ঠিক"[/বাংলা]. The same reason we Bangalis often sound weird when we do nor aspirate our consonants as when we ask for [বাংলা]টু [/বাংলা] burgers and NOT [বাংলা]ঠু[/বাংলা] burgers.

roman
May 21, 2012, 10:10 AM
"Bhagina" or "vagina"?

Got confused one time when some dude posted a picture on Facebook with the caption "amar notun vagina! Ki cute!"

:facepalm::floor::floor:

Ei ta ki shunailen vai/bhai..Now I really should focus on bh and V before typing banglish

Maysun
May 21, 2012, 10:17 AM
Electrequiem, my Mama used it while addressing to me on Facebook. :facepalm:

I didn't respond and avoided him for a long time :lol:

zsayeed
May 21, 2012, 10:25 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengali_alphabet

<table class="wikitable"><tbody><tr><td style="font-size:14pt;">ভ</td> <td>Consonant name: bhô</td> <td>Transliteration: bh</td> <td align="center">IPA: /bʱ/</td></tr></tbody></table>

That' what I started with!

simon
May 21, 2012, 11:03 AM
thread ta moja lagtasey bhaaaaaaaaaaaa !

lol regarding Vodafone & Bhagina :D

I always use bhai

what about the Punjabi one " bai" :p

And what's with the young generation polapain of BD saying "bhaya" like "[বাংলা]ভায়া"[/বাংলা]instead of "bhaiya" ? annoying.

Purbasha T
May 21, 2012, 11:17 AM
^ I thought <font class='bangla'>ভায়া</font> was a classic Bengali word too, widely used in our literature?! :confused:

zinatf
May 21, 2012, 11:19 AM
Yes it is....what GURU was trying to say was the younger generation nowadays tend to mix up the "proper" spelling of bhaiya with bhaya :)

simon
May 21, 2012, 11:23 AM
Yes it is....what GURU was trying to say was the younger generation nowadays tend to mix up the "proper" spelling of bhaiya with bhaya :)

hoynai :-P

ajkal polapain ra ektu ishtyle koira bhaya bole/uchcharon kore, ami kichu TV/natok e shunchi, or may be I'm the only one. :-|

zsayeed
May 21, 2012, 11:23 AM
^ I thought <font class='bangla'>ভায়া</font> was a classic Bengali word too, widely used in our literature?! :confused:

Reminds me of Thakur Mar Jhuli.. bhaya...

zinatf
May 21, 2012, 11:25 AM
hoynai :-P

ajkal polapain ra ektu ishtyle koira bhaya bole/uchcharon kore, ami kichu TV/natok e shunchi, or may be I'm the only one. :-|

:sigh::sigh:

Maysun
May 21, 2012, 11:46 AM
And Vai is off the mark!

Night_wolf
May 21, 2012, 12:20 PM
Pont uses Bhai!

idrinkh2O
May 21, 2012, 12:32 PM
I wish there was an option for "other" because I like to use Vhai. For some reason, the spelling of Bhai and Vai looks odd to me...go figure :rolleyes:. The same goes for Vhabi, Vhagina and so forth.

Beamer
May 21, 2012, 12:57 PM
When in doubt, just use Bro..

Purbasha T
May 21, 2012, 01:28 PM
.. or akkhi! ;)

shuziburo
May 21, 2012, 02:00 PM
Bhai. Case closed...

shuziburo
May 21, 2012, 02:02 PM
The V is labiodental. The Bh is bilabial fricative.

:applause:

Rubu
May 21, 2012, 02:12 PM
The V is labiodental. The Bh is bilabial fricative.
This is the answer I was looking for. Bangla "Vah" is bilabial fricative. So, Bhai it is.

Still few questions, since in Bengali there is no labiodental "vah" (hence no Bengali will ever pronounce it like this, regardless how how you spell it), the Bengali pronunciation should still be the same. Hence, both should be correct.

From the above point of view, all Bengali words with "vah" should be spelled "Bh-" and never ever an "v". That is clearly not the case. Why bother with just this one?

Third, why there is no "bh-" phonetic in international phonetic? (the link I posted).

Most of the posters already assume that in Bengali there are two "vah", one is "V" and other is "Bh-". I can assure you, that is not the case. The Bengali alphabet itself is phonetic, and there is only one "Vah" regardless of how you want to write it in international phonetic (which from Doc's answer is Bh-)

Zeeshan
May 21, 2012, 05:33 PM
simple but effective....shows sohel's creativity is not "stifled" a bit...hehe...master thread

Zunaid
May 21, 2012, 05:40 PM
Rubu - the problem is that many Bangalis do pronounced the Bengali bh as the bilabial v. Same for using the sibilant Z instead of j - apni zaben vai?

Tigers_eye
May 21, 2012, 07:14 PM
ek onchol'er manush'ra vai boley.

Bhai for me. Bhaia to the younger ones. For example: Sohel bhai. Zunaid bhaia. ;)

Tigers_eye
May 21, 2012, 07:15 PM
When in doubt, just use Bro..

Or Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaasssssssssssssssssssss up G?

or in my tongue: "What up!!" with eye brow raised up!!

Purbasha T
May 21, 2012, 07:16 PM
Ohh how I miss the Bengali equivalents of these <font class='bangla'>হাট্টাখোট্টা</font> English words? Bulbul, lab dental floss.. say what?!

Zunaid
May 21, 2012, 08:24 PM
Or Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaasssssssssssssssssssss up G?

or in my tongue: "What up!!" with eye brow raised up!!

Or just use dude. It's a most versatile word. Combine it with inflection and facial gestures, you have ..

Dude - hello
He dude - as in bro
Duuuuuude - nice man, wtg
DUUUUUUUUDE - wtf?
Dude? (short) - what? ...
and more

Purbasha T
May 21, 2012, 08:42 PM
... also:
dude? - got milk?

AsifTheManRahman
May 21, 2012, 09:18 PM
Rubu - the problem is that many Bangalis do pronounced the Bengali bh as the bilabial v. Same for using the sibilant Z instead of j - apni zaben vai?
The way the Bangla j and z and the Chinese (Cantonese/Mandarin) l and r are mixed up has always baffled me. Why can't people get it right when they can pronounce both perfectly?

Zeeshan
May 21, 2012, 09:28 PM
The way the Bangla j and z and the Chinese (Cantonese/Mandarin) l and r are mixed up has always baffled me. Why can't people get it right when they can pronounce both perfectly?

:applause:

Perhaps Jew na Zoo thread in order Asif mama?

Zunaid
May 21, 2012, 09:30 PM
The way the Bangla j and z and the Chinese (Cantonese/Mandarin) l and r are mixed up has always baffled me. Why can't people get it right when they can pronounce both perfectly?

Because they have never thought about the distinction and how the sounds are made. Since Bengali did not have the 'z' sound until we were introduced to it via Arabic and Persian, most do not here the difference or is able to determine which mouth position generates which sound.

The "l" and "r" confusion for Chinese is even more interesting. Other than Mandarin (which is a historically newer language) Chinese languages did NOT have an "r" sound. What makes it additionally confusing is that the l and r sounds are made almost in very similar fashion - try it out. And if the sound did not exist, your brain has not learned to distinguish the difference in how it sounds. Your barain has since we have very distinct ls and rs in our language but the Chinese do not.

Consider how it is difficult for native speaking Americans with no background in sub-continental languages to distinguish between our aspirated and un-aspirated consonant s- kaw, khaw, gaw, ghaw etc....

It is difficult (without training) for their ears to distinguish between [বাংলা]ক্যান / খ্যান[/বাংলা] just as we Bengalis often will say "[বাংলা]ক্যান[/বাংলা]" for the word can instead of [বাংলা]খ্যান[/বাংলা]. I খ্যান do ইঠ vs I ক্যান do ইট it. (I can do it).

Zeeshan
May 21, 2012, 09:37 PM
On topic: It's absolutely riddiculous, yes Sohel-da I said it, that we are discussing it in a way as if there is some law set in stone. Jeeezus ffs language was created to serve us not the other way around.

However, the fact one can tango to a formal grammar doesn't mean one is bound to it by showing "how one can follow the rule" but rather shows a command of it and the exactness in skill of mimicry. But when this is taken to such ludicrous levels as this thread that as if there is some stupid invisible rule one should adhere to sent from lower chambers of Heaven than it becomes pure joke.

For what we know, textspeak may be the 'norm' in like..yeah..like ...20 yrs tym

AsifTheManRahman
May 21, 2012, 09:38 PM
Another one is the German "ich". Is it "ish" or "ikh"? Most Germans don't know the difference.

Zeeshan
May 21, 2012, 09:41 PM
Another one is the German "ich". Is it "ish" or "ikh"? Most Germans don't know the difference.

it's "ish" er modhe mor"ich" er gura, S"ikh"

Zeeshan
May 21, 2012, 09:54 PM
While we are at it, let's also discuss

-if Hamlet was gay
-chirality of unicorn's horn
-# of follicles in bhutum pecha's nostril
-should Voynich manuscript be read or admired for beauty

AsifTheManRahman
May 21, 2012, 10:01 PM
V for bhan. V for bhaat. V for bhiolet.

Sohel
May 21, 2012, 10:28 PM
The BraJil and ArZentina thing is also irritating, as is Robin-ho, Ronal-din-ho, Myara-donna etc. I mean don't they ever actually listen to commentators when they watch sports on TV? This type of cavalier disregard for details is especially annoying when coming out of TV and radio presenters.

Sohel
May 21, 2012, 10:29 PM
Rubu - the problem is that many Bangalis do pronounced the Bengali bh as the bilabial v. Same for using the sibilant Z instead of j - apni zaben vai?

Made me cringe!

Sohel
May 21, 2012, 10:54 PM
BTW, many fresh off the fjords Scandinavians have issues with G and J. My friend Jarl (pronounced Yahrl) used to call the Giants "Guy (French)-Ahnts" when he first arrived in the US.

zsayeed
May 21, 2012, 11:01 PM
Does anyone has a sound bite of how "v" vs "bh" sounds?

The V is labiodental. The Bh is bilabial fricative.

This is the answer I was looking for. Bangla "Vah" is bilabial fricative. So, Bhai it is.



You were looking for that amswer???
Funny ... how those phonetic terms are known as sound-bites? did not know that!

zsayeed
May 21, 2012, 11:03 PM
V for bhan. V for bhaat. V for bhiolet.

what is bhan?
you mean bhang?

Naimul_Hd
May 21, 2012, 11:06 PM
what is bhan?
You mean bhang?

[বাংলা] ভান ,ভনিতা [/বাংলা]

Sohel
May 21, 2012, 11:17 PM
T0 those rebels (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebel_Without_a_Cause) who voted "vai": I'll take you out to the "Voot" restaurant in Dhanmondi for food, drinks and pirated Steve Vai CDs. My treat as long as you refrain yourselves from uttering any "Bh" sound.

To the winners*: dal-bhat-bhaurta-machh-murg'i at your choice of any Bhai-Bhai restaurant is on me.

*There are no "loosers".

Zeeshan
May 22, 2012, 12:27 AM
sohel da mind khelen naki ...i was just joking :)

Isnaad
May 22, 2012, 01:48 AM
T0 those rebels (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebel_Without_a_Cause) who voted "vai": I'll take you out to the "Voot" restaurant in Dhanmondi for food, drinks and pirated Steve Vai CDs. My treat as long as you refrain yourselves from uttering any "Bh" sound.

To the winners*: dal-bhat-bhaurta-machh-murg'i at your choice of any Bhai-Bhai restaurant is on me.

*There are no "loosers".

Post of the day :up: (On my behalf)

Sohel
May 22, 2012, 06:37 AM
sohel da mind khelen naki ...i was just joking :)

Of course not VAI! I totally expected nothing less than the chiro-bidrohi-maumosheer, "rebel without a pause" post from you. Orphy's "Vai" vote was also expected. I may disagree with you from time to time but love the spirit. I was worse at your age(s).

Antora
May 22, 2012, 06:41 AM
Eww! Vai? I hate it when people use that!

Rubu
May 22, 2012, 07:21 AM
Rubu - the problem is that many Bangalis do pronounced the Bengali bh as the bilabial v. Same for using the sibilant Z instead of j - apni zaben vai?

Quite interesting and co-incidental, while driving to work this morning, on shuffle, a song of Gajgit Sing came up and the line was "Vanga bashe bilap sara...". It was a labiodental "V".

Then it hit me. Pankaj Udhash in his Bangla album also pronounces "V" just like that, which all alone I thought was his inability to pronounce "vah" properly. Apparently not. Someone hindi spoken or knowledgeable about it may confirm it, but I am pretty confident it is because hindi "vah" is labiodental.

So, if you are not influence by hindi, "V" or "Bh-" should sound the same to you. Think about it, if you round 3.75 and 4, both becomes 4. "V" and "Bh-" are not same, but close, and when you convert it to Bengali, it got only one place to go, bilabial fricative "vah".

So, for those of you who is bothered by "Vai" think without the influence of hindi, and those who do pronounce it with labiodental "vah" tell them, there is only one "vah" in Bengali and it is bilabial fricative. you may even demonstrate how to pronounce it ;)

BengaliPagol
May 22, 2012, 07:46 AM
Vai looks weird.

zinatf
May 22, 2012, 07:55 AM
Rubu - the problem is that many Bangalis do pronounced the Bengali bh as the bilabial v. Same for using the sibilant Z instead of j - apni zaben vai?

Hate it when people pronounce/write Jinat :sigh:

Naimul_Hd
May 22, 2012, 09:12 AM
Hate it when people pronounce/write Jinat :sigh:

how' bout 'Zeenat' ?

simon
May 22, 2012, 09:16 AM
"bh" for bhendetta
<br />Posted via BC Mobile Edition (Android)

zinatf
May 22, 2012, 09:24 AM
how' bout 'Zeenat' ?

well depends upon how each spell it....no problems with that

Beamer
May 22, 2012, 09:34 AM
If you Google baha'i faith, this thread is popping up. It seems we have managed to dupe Google!! Lol

ammark
May 22, 2012, 11:20 AM
Another one is the German "ich". Is it "ish" or "ikh"? Most Germans don't know the difference.

From the short time of my childhood spent in Frankfurt, I can distinctly remember pronouncing as ikh. I was 7 and no one around us spoke any language other than German, so my sister and I were pretty quick in picking up the language at the time. Same pronounciation for "Ich spreche nicht deutsche" as Ikh spre-khe nikht deutsche" or achtung.But I was confused about the word "Deutsche" itself, because we'd pronounce it as Doysh whereas in media I've always heard it as doy-tche. I think German itself varies a lot depending on accent and the regional dialects. Swiss German is VERY different from the German spoken in the North around Bremen.

Anyways I digress,

I quite enjoyed Dr.Z's lesson in phonetics. Zotil hoyese.

zsayeed
May 23, 2012, 06:05 AM
One letter creating a whole class demarcation line. Brilliant!

ammark
May 23, 2012, 06:32 AM
One letter creating a whole class demarcation line. Brilliant!

Interesting thought. It's not so much a creation, as much as a reflection. The old school people are more likely to stick to the idea that bhai is the correct english transcription against the current trend where ভ = v. Maybe this is because of brevity in text speak, or the simplistic acceptance that the nearest cognate of ভ is v. As discussed in this thread, a Bangla transcription of the word Vanquish would be pronounced "bhan-kuish". (See Doc's illustration of American Accented I খ্যান do ইঠ vs bangladeshi accented I ক্যান do ইট it. (I can do it). But going back to class demarcations, unless there's an academic or formal identification of this divide on class lines (such as the pronunciation of the letter H as Heitch or eitch) there's not much that can be said about class. Unless your jibe was at the use of the word "Khyat" for people who write vai.

Sohel
May 23, 2012, 06:42 AM
I'm an elitist and the vais of the world irritate me. That being said, my elitism is defined in relation to the class of people who value wealth more than education, etiquette and values, not the hardworking, marginalized majority of this country.

Zunaid
May 23, 2012, 06:51 AM
I'm an elitist and the vais of the world irritate me. That being said, my elitism is defined in relation to the class of people who value wealth more than education, etiquette and values, not the hardworking, marginalized majority of this country.

Thanks for articulating the reasons forEid being an elitist. I am more than you.

zsayeed
May 23, 2012, 06:53 AM
Interestingly most consonants in standard American is pronounced with an aspiration.

So 'K" is usually pronounced more like a 'Kh', "T" in two, more like "[বাংলা]ঠু[/বাংলা]" with our "[বাংলা]ঠ[/বাংলা]sound". They often have difficulty hearing the between, say, [বাংলা]"টিক ঠিক"[/বাংলা]. The same reason we Bangalis often sound weird when we do nor aspirate our consonants as when we ask for [বাংলা]টু [/বাংলা] burgers and NOT [বাংলা]ঠু[/বাংলা] burgers.

Why are we setting standard of pronunciation and weirdness to American English? Stick to the Queen's English - why don't you? And if you must, stick to mid-western US accents - which is held as the ideal US Accent by linguists here. Such over-exaggerated explosive consonants do not happen in the idealized US accent form.

Zunaid
May 23, 2012, 06:56 AM
I am talking about the Midwestern standard English. 300M Americans to paltry English - I know where to get my linguistics cue from. From the master rather than the lap dog. :-;

Rubu
May 23, 2012, 07:08 AM
Why are we setting standard of pronunciation and weirdness to American English? Stick to the Queen's English - why don't you? And if you must, stick to mid-western US accents - which is held as the ideal US Accent by linguists here. Such over-exaggerated explosive consonants do not happen in the idealized US accent form.
Wat y'all talkin' 'bout?

Sohel
May 23, 2012, 07:47 AM
BTW, big hug for those who have switched from "vai" to "bhai" at least partially because of this thread.

Sohel
May 23, 2012, 08:14 AM
My brother-in-law Sandeep (a native Mumbaikar) is in town and wants to know "vai" would anyone say "wai" instead of "bhai" :facepalm:

BTW, I love you Sandeep and no longer believe Parveen deserves better. You can nurture whatever accent you want bro. :bighug:

Rubu
May 23, 2012, 08:25 AM
My brother-in-law Sandeep (a native Mumbaikar) is in town and wants to know "vai" would anyone say "wai" instead of "bhai" :facepalm:

BTW, I love you Sandeep and no longer believe Parveen deserves better. You can nurture whatever accent you want bro. :bighug:

Parveen and not Parbheen? ;)

J/K.

Naimul_Hd
May 23, 2012, 08:29 AM
My brother-in-law Sandeep (a native Mumbaikar) is in town and wants to know why would anyone say "wai" instead of bhai :facepalm:

There is a recent trend among young people to say 'arey yaar' (Urdu/hindi- bondhu in bangla) instead of 'arey bhai' :facepalm:

When i hear such trend of following hindi/ indian culture among young people, the question of writing 'bhai' or 'vai' makes me least worried.

Sohel
May 23, 2012, 08:30 AM
Parveen and not Parbheen? ;)

J/K.

She's my non-Bengali cousin from Delhi and finds being called "Pahween" or "Perween" locally more irritating than "Parbhin Apa" whenever in Dhaka. Sandeep switched from "Perween" to "Parveen" after 7 years of marriage. Sandeep visits this forum a lot. In fact, he may be reading now. Become a member dude. Not everyone here bites like me bro.

Sohel
May 23, 2012, 08:32 AM
There is a recent trend among young people to say 'arey yaar' (Urdu/hindi- bondhu in bangla) instead of 'arey bhai' :facepalm:

When i hear such trend of following hindi/ indian culture among young people, the question of writing 'bhai' or 'vai' makes me least worried.

^True that. That makes my blood boil. Nijer bhasha shekhar balai nei, kintu khyat Bollywoody trendgulor byalay ...

zsayeed
May 23, 2012, 12:48 PM
I am talking about the Midwestern standard English. 300M Americans to paltry English - I know where to get my linguistics cue from. From the master rather than the lap dog. :-;

What fallacy of logic is this? Or are we not playing the game?

Crisis
May 23, 2012, 01:11 PM
Recently I got texted "Vahiya". Thought it was a typo but subsequent texts proved me wrong.

For a minute, that looked like 'behaya' to me lol

Zeeshan
May 23, 2012, 04:48 PM
^True that. That makes my blood boil. Nijer bhasha shekhar balai nei, kintu khyat Bollywoody trendgulor byalay ...

as much as you and i hate it..roaddie generation bro

Sohel
May 23, 2012, 11:39 PM
as much as you and i hate it..roaddie generation bro

That's a scary show, at least the Bollywood wehshon we get here. Bald, evil and rude twins with bizarre facial hair harassing bimbos.

On topic: I know someone from the Russian Embassy who calls me "Zyoheel Wyai". The way different non-Bangali/non-South Asians say bhai is fyascyinyating.