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TimAus
June 4, 2012, 02:00 AM
Was just looking through some stats and found myself looking at Bangladesh's all time test stats. If you go by the numbers (most runs for batsmen, most wickets for bowlers) this is the Bangladesh best team of all time.

Tamim Iqbal (1748 runs @ 38)
Javed Omar (1720 runs @ 22)
Habibul Bashar (3026 runs @ 30)
Mohammad Ashraful (2419 runs @ 22)
Shakib Al Hassan (1630 runs @ 34, 96 wks @ 31)
Mushfiqur Rahim (1480 runs @ 29)
Khaled Mashud (wk) (1409 @ 19)
Mohammad Rafique (100 wks @ 40)
Mashrafe Mortaza (78 wks @ 41)
Shahadat Hossain (68 wks @ 49)
Enamul Haq Jr (41 wks @ 39)

Now when you put it like that it doesn't make good reading. No batsman average higher than 40, no bowler below 30. But there is one thing that is promising. Both bowlers with an average under 40 and both batsman with an average over 31 are still there and are young. Bangladesh have other new batsmen averaging around the 30 mark so with more experience should improve on that and new bowlers are coming in, both fast bowlers who are not only clearly superior to Shahadat and spinners who are keeping Enamul Haq out of the side. If this generation continues to improve I can see in the future every old name on that list being replaced.

It's up to the new guys to wipe names like Omar, Bashar, Ashraful, Mashud, Rafique and Hossain from this list.

I started this thread for 2 reasons. Who in the current Bangladesh side do you think has the potential to be a 50 test player and what are your memories of these names. Because as an Australian looking in they were a laughing stock.

fiasnahk
June 4, 2012, 02:30 AM
Nasir looks like he could in the future play 50 tests. Maybe Anamul, dont know. But i think guys like Jaharul and Mahmadullah will replace the above names. They might not do much better than them but will still contribute well. Rubel will displace shahadat. Nazmul might as well.

Gowza
June 4, 2012, 02:43 AM
yeah as future prospects go nasir, anamul, mominul look like they may play 50+ test matches, even asif ahmed. of the current lot tamim, shakib and mushy will i'm sure. mash will if his body lets him. it's a bit tougher with the bowlers on who to pick because they chop and change all the time but i think rubel if he comes back strong from the injury will play 50 tests other than him it's hard to say because the others are easily displaced imo.

Habib
June 4, 2012, 02:51 AM
Nasir looks like he could in the future play 50 tests. Maybe Anamul, dont know. But i think guys like Jaharul and Mahmadullah will replace the above names. They might not do much better than them but will still contribute well. Rubel will displace shahadat. Nazmul might as well.

Agree with you except on Nazmul. I doubt he will get enough chances in tests or if given chance can succeed. He will forever be labeled as an effective limited over specialist like Sayed Rasel.

Gowza
June 4, 2012, 02:57 AM
Nasir looks like he could in the future play 50 tests. Maybe Anamul, dont know. But i think guys like Jaharul and Mahmadullah will replace the above names. They might not do much better than them but will still contribute well. Rubel will displace shahadat. Nazmul might as well.

riyad maybe but i think jahurul will find it difficult to have a permanent place in the test team. anamul, mominul, asif are all coming through, shuvagata is showing promise, i think all of those players i just mentioned will be contending for the #3 spot since it's almost impossible for any of them to slot into the middle order right now. anamul and asif might contend for the 2nd opener spot as well, anamul will for sure if he isn't the #3 and asif will if he starts batting higher up the order again.

with nasir showing his consistency it's even going to be hard for riyad to hold onto his place imo.

Gowza
June 4, 2012, 03:01 AM
the issue with nazmul is he really doesn't bowl much higher than 130kph, he's high 120s to low 130s and he's a similar bowler to mash except mash can crank it up a bit more. if mash can keep his body fit and healthy he will be selected over nazmul no doubt, when rubel comes back he'll probably automatically slot back in and then we have a 3rd pacer spot which is being contended by nazmul, shahadat, abul, shafiul and i think even al amin is in the mix (being a reserve for the up coming t20s). nazmul's best chance is if he gets a chance before rubel returns, performs well and earns a more permanent spot that way otherwise i just see him being on the fringe forever.

fiasnahk
June 4, 2012, 03:06 AM
I like Jahuruls style of play. He seems to have a good technique and can improve alot. With the youngsters who arent in the team yet, we just dnt know whats going to happen with them as they havent been tried.

Gowza
June 4, 2012, 03:18 AM
I like Jahuruls style of play. He seems to have a good technique and can improve alot. With the youngsters who arent in the team yet, we just dnt know whats going to happen with them as they havent been tried.

he's got to get a spot in the team first though, and there are a lot of youngsters who are pushing their claims right now. of course we don't know how the youngsters will go, but at the same time we don't know how jahurul will go yet either. but anamul, mominul and shuvagata are all doing really well atm, it's hard to say what the selectors will do.

zinatf
June 4, 2012, 04:11 AM
:applause: very good thread Tim!

Future prospects are Anamul and Mominul at the moment who really can average 50+ in tests if they play enough of them...se the main thing is, unlike Australia, Bangladesh doesn't get to play enough tests and when they do...it's usually after 6 to 10 months, by which the majority look a bit dumbfounded in coming to play tests. The reason? Our FC standards. The FC standards in Bangladesh is sadly not have been improved unlike the other top test playing nations.

Also the FTP is a reason, if the boys do not get to play enough test then how will they even manage to get 50+ average in batting and under 30 in bowling?

I hope the BCB takes this matter under serious consideration. As I mentioned earlier, these two new kid will definitely reign in the charts if are given enough chances to play and will replace the old names.

Gowza
June 4, 2012, 04:18 AM
if we're talking 50+ averages then tamim has the ability imo.

zinatf
June 4, 2012, 04:40 AM
^He definitely does.
Among the younsters, it's got to be Anamul and Mominul

BengaliPagol
June 4, 2012, 05:05 AM
Tamim should average 45+. Its a matter of if he wants to or not. He would be a much better test batsmen then a ODI batsmen IMO. Its just temperament that needs to be worked on.

BD Rox
June 4, 2012, 05:18 AM
Tamim should average 45+. Its a matter of if he wants to or not. He would be a much better test batsmen then a ODI batsmen IMO. Its just temperament that needs to be worked on.
Well said. Totally with you man. And he also proved it in the recent Asia Cup. We don't need a devastating Tamim. I want him to continue the role which he had in the Asia Cup.
It's all about temperament.

Sohel
June 4, 2012, 05:28 AM
I started this thread for 2 reasons. Who in the current Bangladesh side do you think has the potential to be a 50 test player and what are your memories of these names.

He's clearly talking about potential 50 test players, not batsmen averaging 50. Given our traditionally arbitrary and nepotistic "selection process", and dead weight riding the coattail of others' success, many of those guys don't have to have decent ability at all. I hope a guy like Pybus will change that tradition for our own good. That being said, here's what I think of what lies ahead, provided we start playing more tests:

1. Tamim: Once he quits smoking, he has the ability to convert those easy 50s into easy 100s, and can end his test career with an average of 40 plus. I see about 15-20 test 100s.

2. Shakib: I see him maturing into a much harder worker, and becoming even better in the process. I think he'll end his test career with an average of 40 with 12-15 test 100s. I also see 250 wickets and test bowling average below 30.

3. Md. Mushfiqur Rahim Mit'hu: I see him being relieved of his wicket keeping and becoming a very good specialist batsman in the process. I think he'll end his test career with an average of 35 with 8-10 test 100s.

4. Md. Mahmudullah Riyad: I think most of his issues are mental during the initial stages of his innings, because he looks a totally different player once he settles in. I think he'll survive and end his career with an average of 35 with 5-8 test 100s.

5. Anamul Haq Bijauy: I'm putting my money on him to average in the mid 40s to low 50s, and finishing his career with 25-30 test 100s.

6. Shubhagauto Hom Das Chowdhury: I'm putting my money on him to average in the 40s, and finishing his career with 12-15 test 100s.

7. Mominul Haq Shouraubh: I hope he's the type that blossoms, not wilts under the guaranteed pressures of international test cricket. If he does, we're looking at an average of high 30s with 10-12 test hundreds by the time he retires.

8 & 9. Asif Ahmed Ratul and Shoummo Sarkar: Way too early to comment at this stage, especially on Shoummo, but I love what I've seen so far. If these guys can consistently bring to the highest level their ability to apply the considerable talent they've been blessed with, we'll be looking at a couple of guys with 40 averages and 10-12 test 100s by the time they retire.

10 & 11. Shabbir Rahman Rumman & Fazle Rabbi: Aggressive and comfortable playing pace like Tamim, both have temperament issues. But like Tamim, they're also hungry for success and will work on their own to acquire the right temperament. If they do, I see both ending their test careers with 40 average and 10-12 hundreds each.

12. Zunaed Siddiqui Imroze: If he manages to resolve his front foot and bottom hand issues, I see him finishing a test career with 35 average and 5-8 test hundreds. I'm not nearly as confident on his survival as I am on Riyad's.

13, 14 & 15. Enamul Haq, Nasir Hossain and Saqlain Shaujeeb: Aggressive, intelligent and hungry for wickets, all 3 are capable of ending their test bowling careers with 100 plus wickets and test bowling averages between 35 to 30. Nasir is also capable of averaging in the mid 30s with the bat with 8-10 test 100s by the time he retires.

Not too hot on other bowlers at this stage, but wish guys like Rubel, Shubhashish, Raju, Rabbi, Munna and now Tanzin all the success if and when they come into the test side.

Some memories need not be stirred.

TimAus
June 4, 2012, 07:10 AM
He's clearly talking about potential 50 test players, not batsmen averaging 50.

That's exactly right, I was talking more about longevity, although the other issue of batsmen averaging 50 and bowlers averaging 30 is a valid one to discuss here too. I agree Bangladesh play far too few tests which is why I said 50 tests not 100 tests. But even given their sparse test schedule Tamim already has 24 tests to his name at age 23. At this rate he will top the Bangladesh runs by the time he is 27.

The fact is that if you look a little lower down the test batting list you'll see a group of names of players who should be of playing age, who were given opportunities at international level but couldn't stay the distance.

Rajin Saleh, age 28, 1141 runs
Shariah Nafees, age 26, 1126 runs
Junaid Siddique, age 24, 942 runs
Al Sahariah, age 34, 683 runs
Hannan Sarkar, age 29, 662 runs

Also: Alok Kapali, Aftab Ahmed, Nafees Iqbal, Raqibal Hassan, Mehrab Hossain Jr.

You can add Ashraful to that list. Siddique and Nafees should get more chances but where are these other guys. It is this missing generation of 28-35 year olds that is the problem for Bangladesh.

In 6 years we should be seeing a very similar side to now, with the best players having at least 25-60 tests each. It has never happened for Bangladesh in the past though so this search for longevity is a real issue.

Cricketers tend to hit their peak in their early 30s and Bangladesh has really only had 2 players (Habibul Bashar and Mohammad Rafique) who have made it that far through a career. My question was really about how many of the current stock will go the distance, because I think they are all talented enough to be far better than the old names above.

MarufH
June 4, 2012, 12:34 PM
He's clearly talking about potential 50 test players, not batsmen averaging 50. Given our traditionally arbitrary and nepotistic "selection process", and dead weight riding the coattail of others' success, many of those guys don't have to have decent ability at all. I hope a guy like Pybus will change that tradition for our own good. That being said, here's what I think of what lies ahead, provided we start playing more tests:

1. Tamim: Once he quits smoking, he has the ability to convert those easy 50s into easy 100s, and can end his test career with an average of 40 plus. I see about 15-20 test 100s.

2. Shakib: I see him maturing into a much harder worker, and becoming even better in the process. I think he'll end his test career with an average of 40 with 12-15 test 100s. I also see 250 wickets and test bowling average below 30.

3. Md. Mushfiqur Rahim Mit'hu: I see him being relieved of his wicket keeping and becoming a very good specialist batsman in the process. I think he'll end his test career with an average of 35 with 8-10 test 100s.

4. Md. Mahmudullah Riyad: I think most of his issues are mental during the initial stages of his innings, because he looks a totally different player once he settles in. I think he'll survive and end his career with an average of 35 with 5-8 test 100s.

5. Anamul Haq Bijauy: I'm putting my money on him to average in the mid 40s to low 50s, and finishing his career with 25-30 test 100s.

6. Shubhagauto Hom Das Chowdhury: I'm putting my money on him to average in the 40s, and finishing his career with 12-15 test 100s.

7. Mominul Haq Shouraubh: I hope he's the type that blossoms, not wilts under the guaranteed pressures of international test cricket. If he does, we're looking at an average of high 30s with 10-12 test hundreds by the time he retires.

8 & 9. Asif Ahmed Ratul and Shoummo Sarkar: Way too early to comment at this stage, especially on Shoummo, but I love what I've seen so far. If these guys can consistently bring to the highest level their ability to apply the considerable talent they've been blessed with, we'll be looking at a couple of guys with 40 averages and 10-12 test 100s by the time they retire.

10 & 11. Shabbir Rahman Rumman & Fazle Rabbi: Aggressive and comfortable playing pace like Tamim, both have temperament issues. But like Tamim, they're also hungry for success and will work on their own to acquire the right temperament. If they do, I see both ending their test careers with 40 average and 10-12 hundreds each.

12. Zunaed Siddiqui Imroze: If he manages to resolve his front foot and bottom hand issues, I see him finishing a test career with 35 average and 5-8 test hundreds. I'm not nearly as confident on his survival as I am on Riyad's.

13, 14 & 15. Enamul Haq, Nasir Hossain and Saqlain Shaujeeb: Aggressive, intelligent and hungry for wickets, all 3 are capable of ending their test bowling careers with 100 plus wickets and test bowling averages between 35 to 30. Nasir is also capable of averaging in the mid 30s with the bat with 8-10 test 100s by the time he retires.

Not too hot on other bowlers at this stage, but wish guys like Rubel, Shubhashish, Raju, Rabbi, Munna and now Tanzin all the success if and when they come into the test side.

Some memories need not be stirred.

Interesting and bold statement about Anamul. He hasn't even debut his test career yet! If he is that good, he should already start playing.

Navo
June 4, 2012, 01:18 PM
In the past, the core of the team was Habibul Bashar and Rafique because the former scored some runs and the latter had the ability to take 5 wicket hauls. That's why they lasted well into their 30s. The core of the current team will also last into their 30s if their health allows them to. That means: Shakib, Tamim, Mushy and probably Riyad, Nasir and Rubel.

I have a feeling Ashraful will always be around, even in his 30s. Impossible to rule him out. Mash, given the effort he's put in to come back time and time again AND because we have a dearth of quality fast bowlers, will be around into his 30s if his body can still cope.

What does concern me though is that it will be in their 30s that they will be able to play England in England again! (If the FTP is adhered to and we only go there in 2020!) Or Australia in Australia or India in India for that matter? People talk about creating a two tier system but what's the point when a de facto two tier system exists already?

P.S. I think if Shakib plays 60+ Test matches and continues to improve his bowling, he'll be very high on the list of all-time 5-wicket haul takers. I say this because of the dependence that the team has on him to take wickets and bowl overs. It will also help if he plays most of his matches at home.

al Furqaan
June 4, 2012, 05:55 PM
Sohel bhai, by "Tanzin" do you mean Taskin Ahmed Tazin?

Sohel
June 4, 2012, 10:10 PM
^My bad, Tazin it is :)

Looking forward to seeing him in action. Heard too many good things about him.

Maysun
June 4, 2012, 11:47 PM
Sohel Bhai, we need to be playing more Tests for that. Playing a Test after 11 months again isn't going to help that projectile you're prophesying.

Sohel
June 5, 2012, 01:00 AM
Sohel Bhai, we need to be playing more Tests for that. Playing a Test after 11 months again isn't going to help that projectile you're prophesying.

Agree 100% and that's why the big "if" right before I started listing my wishful thoughts about the number of test 100s or test wickets. We need to play enough tests so that each one of the players I've listed play close to 100, not 50 tests.

Now, I don't think that's too much of a stretch now that Zimbabwe's back playing tests. The bigger teams will also be inclined to play us more once we start to compete and beat them in other formats.

BengaliPagol
June 5, 2012, 04:04 AM
Interesting and bold statement about Anamul. He hasn't even debut his test career yet! If he is that good, he should already start playing.

I can assure you that Anamul will do well in the international arena. He will at least have an average of 35+. I will show you why im confident about Anamul.

These have been the averages of Bangladeshi cricketers in FC & Test cricket.
Tamim averages 39.40 in FC cricket and 38 in tests.
Shakib (in batting) averages 34.61 in FC cricket and 34.68 in tests.
Habibul Bashar averages 33.76 in FC cricket and 30.87 in tests.
Aftab Ahmed averages 24.16 in FC cricket and 20.78 in tests.
Mushfiqur Rahim averages 29.60 in FC cricket and 29.01 in tests.
Mahmudullah averages 33.93 in FC cricket and and 30.18 in test cricket.
Ashraful averages 28.73 in FC cricket and 22.60 in tests.
Javed Omar averages 28.77 in FC cricket and 22.05 in tests.

So as you can see everyones FC average is similar to their test average. The only ones that have a big difference is Javed Omar and Ashraful who both played ages ago.(difference in averages is only by 6). Javed and Ashraful did not have an average of 42.25 in FC cricket like Anamul does.

My point is most cricketers end up getting similar averages to their FC average. This is why i think Anamul should be able to average at least 35+ in test cricket.

So...
Anamul Haque averages 42.25 in FC cricket and ???? in tests. (...to be continued)

TimAus
June 5, 2012, 05:48 AM
My point is most cricketers end up getting similar averages to their FC average. This is why i think Anamul should be able to average at least 35+ in test cricket.

So...
Anamul Haque averages 42.25 in FC cricket and ???? in tests. (...to be continued)

This is true, given that tests go for 5 days and FC games go for 4 averages should remain about that same. In countrys with weak FC bowling like Bangladesh it should be expected that averages would go down a bit for tests though (in places like Australia and South Africa players often have higher test averages than FC).

Anamul averages 42 at age 18, if he keeps improving he should be able to get that to 50, so an average over 40 in tests should be his aim, if not higher. Tamim should also be working to improve both his test and FC averages over 40 (Shakib, Nasir, Mahmudullah, Nazimuddin and Rahim could all do this too, especially if they play mostly in the sub-continent)

Tigers_eye
June 5, 2012, 06:33 AM
Sohel bhai ki khaisen naki future time travel koirey ashcey.

Next 15 years Bd players will score 100+ centuries (minimum) in Test? Last 12 years we scored total of 23. A four plus fold improvement is unthinkable to me. Bd'r climbing in the charts is unstoppable.

P.S. domestic'e longer version'a jei obostha .... 100 gula 50 koirey daan.

cricheart
June 5, 2012, 07:10 AM
Just like all previous coachs of BC, my opinion is same for Test cricket- Let it be fertilize through FC and emphasize more on ODIs & t20s, where fans & board wants to see the immediate results. Long dissapionting performance of BD & overall dying of this format dont excite me much IMHO. Test status is nothing more like a posh society ticket atm, where we will be allways treated as minnow. After 2020 if BD test performance gets reviewed and test status challenged, I wonder if we will/can able to defend. Our players, spectators, board, sponsors etc still may be with same view as today maybe with better success.

al Furqaan
June 6, 2012, 04:31 PM
Agree 100% and that's why the big "if" right before I started listing my wishful thoughts about the number of test 100s or test wickets. We need to play enough tests so that each one of the players I've listed play close to 100, not 50 tests.

Now, I don't think that's too much of a stretch now that Zimbabwe's back playing tests. The bigger teams will also be inclined to play us more once we start to compete and beat them in other formats.

:up::up::up: