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Tiger444
June 8, 2012, 12:40 PM
One of the headaches coach Pybus will have is what order we should have our middle order. It seems pretty cloudy still even though we have the pieces. Mushy so far has been disappointing at #4, Riyad has been disappointing as well at #7. So do we move those guys up? If we do then that means Nasir will have to bat at #7 but isn't that too low for a guy who has looked like a genuine match winner? It'll be interesting to see what Pybus does with our middle order.

oronnya
June 8, 2012, 01:01 PM
One of the headaches coach Pybus will have is what order we should have our middle order. It seems pretty cloudy still even though we have the pieces. Mushy so far has been disappointing at #4, Riyad has been disappointing as well at #7. So do we move those guys up? If we do then that means Nasir will have to bat at #7 but isn't that too low for a guy who has looked like a genuine match winner? It'll be interesting to see what Pybus does with our middle order.

The problem will be solved if either Mushy or Riyad can turn into a #3 batsman and if Shakib pushes himself up to #4.. Then you can bring in a genuine power hitter all rounder at #7.. So the best middle order combo

3. Mushy/Riyad
4. Shakib
5. Mushy/Riyad
6. Nasir

Tiger444
June 8, 2012, 01:32 PM
The problem will be solved if either Mushy or Riyad can turn into a #3 batsman and if Shakib pushes himself up to #4.. Then you can bring in a genuine power hitter all rounder at #7.. So the best middle order combo

3. Mushy/Riyad
4. Shakib
5. Mushy/Riyad
6. Nasir

The problem is I don't see any of these guys being #3 batsmen. They perform much better against the old ball compared to the new ball. The highest any of these guys should bat is #4. We need genuine top order batsmen like Anamul/Jahurul to bat at #3.

oronnya
June 8, 2012, 01:43 PM
The problem is I don't see any of these guys being #3 batsmen. They perform much better against the old ball compared to the new ball. The highest any of these guys should bat is #4. We need genuine top order batsmen like Anamul/Jahurul to bat at #3.

Exactly !!! In that case you will have take out Riyad from the team as he is not a #7 batsman and we don't want to waste Mushy and Nasir to waste at #7!! So the problem remains...#7 is the position I still don't see anyone to be fit there...You really need a good off spinner in the team as well.. So It's not easy to substitute Riyad at the moment..

Tiger444
June 8, 2012, 02:52 PM
Exactly !!! In that case you will have take out Riyad from the team as he is not a #7 batsman and we don't want to waste Mushy and Nasir to waste at #7!! So the problem remains...#7 is the position I still don't see anyone to be fit there...You really need a good off spinner in the team as well.. So It's not easy to substitute Riyad at the moment..

On top of that, the team is performing quite well with Mushy as captain and Riyad as vice captain. So I don't see Riyad getting replaced anytime soon. Although he hasn't been anything special, it's difficult to replace him since he's been playing pretty well.

Gowza
June 8, 2012, 05:25 PM
if you want an off spinner at #7 that isn't riyad then maybe mahmudul hasan but would he be any better than riyad in that spot? don't think his strike rate is high enough either, maybe look at sabbir or nur.

Gowza
June 8, 2012, 06:00 PM
Otherwise get nasir to bowl more....

TigerEz
June 8, 2012, 06:15 PM
nasir bowling more means more runs for teh opposition

BengaliPagol
June 8, 2012, 07:17 PM
Ive said this before and ill say it again. Nasir to me isnt an allrounder. He is a genuine batsmen and he should stay that way. We need him to concentrate on his batting so he can really be a force in the middle order. We need the best of his batting. His bowling is nothing special really.

Tiger444
June 8, 2012, 07:20 PM
if you want an off spinner at #7 that isn't riyad then maybe mahmudul hasan but would he be any better than riyad in that spot? don't think his strike rate is high enough either, maybe look at sabbir or nur.

Shuvagata should be the next choice after Riyad. His stats in the DPL with the ball is pretty impressive.

Gowza
June 8, 2012, 07:33 PM
Shuvagata should be the next choice after Riyad. His stats in the DPL with the ball is pretty impressive.

I'm all for shuvagata being in the team even if it is at the #7 spot, as you say he's been doing pretty decent with the ball

oronnya
June 8, 2012, 07:39 PM
if you want an off spinner at #7 that isn't riyad then maybe mahmudul hasan but would he be any better than riyad in that spot? don't think his strike rate is high enough either, maybe look at sabbir or nur.

Yeah we have few options to try out. As I actually haven't seen them play it's hard to tell who would be the best.. The domestic stats didn't proved to be the best criteria to choose players in the past as many of them failed in international matches..I would prefer not to bring in all the new guys together.. I don't think we can take a risk of having so many new guys at the same time.. Let Anamul get in first and prove his worth.. once #3 is solved we can bring in the others.. I just want a perfect balance of freshness and experience in the team... Riyad has lots of experience which might come in handy during this transition process or who knows with so much competition Riyad might perform better..

oronnya
June 8, 2012, 07:40 PM
Ive said this before and ill say it again. Nasir to me isnt an allrounder. He is a genuine batsmen and he should stay that way. We need him to concentrate on his batting so he can really be a force in the middle order. We need the best of his batting. His bowling is nothing special really.

Yup !! That's what I think of Nasir !! He isn't our solution for off spinner all rounder..

Gowza
June 8, 2012, 08:26 PM
Yeah we have few options to try out. As I actually haven't seen them play it's hard to tell who would be the best.. The domestic stats didn't proved to be the best criteria to choose players in the past as many of them failed in international matches..I would prefer not to bring in all the new guys together.. I don't think we can take a risk of having so many new guys at the same time.. Let Anamul get in first and prove his worth.. once #3 is solved we can bring in the others.. I just want a perfect balance of freshness and experience in the team... Riyad has lots of experience which might come in handy during this transition process or who knows with so much competition Riyad might perform better..

i agree we don't want to over balance the team with too much inexperience and not enough experience, but the #7 spot really isn't a pressure spot, basically in most cases the #7 has a license to belt the ball around and score some quick runs at the end of the innings and chip in a handful of overs with the ball (not the full 10) so the #7 spot is one of the best to put someone new or inexperienced as the pressure isn't as high as other places. shuvagata already has a handful of matches under his belt so i wouldn't worry bringing him in if it's for the #7 spot, nur, sabbir and mahmudul are bigger gambles imo but i'd say sabbir is less of a gamble batting wise than the others, mahmudul might be less of a gamble bowling wise and nur is kind of inbetween since he's a leggy who tend to develop later and more often than not leggy's turnout to be duds and he's more of a bowler who can bat a bit whereas sabbir and mahmdul are more capable batsman (mahmudul being the more genuine allrounder i believe though because sabbir is more a batsman who bowls a bit whereas mahmudul is more a frontline bowler and middle order bat). nur and sabbir are probably better suited to #7 batting wise than mahmudul since they strike at a higher rate more consistently but bowling wise mahmudul might be the best option.

for the moment we can count naeem and shuvo out imo. naeem would be a decent option as he's a decent bowler but his strike rate cuts him out of the options straight away for now until he can get it up.

BengaliPagol
June 8, 2012, 08:35 PM
We should try Shuvagata Hom at no. 7. He can bowl. He can learn the art of slog.

Gowza
June 8, 2012, 08:40 PM
We should try Shuvagata Hom at no. 7. He can bowl. He can learn the art of slog.

no please not slogging for shuvagata, he's a genuine batting prospect, i want him to use proper cricket shots. if nur was to be the #7 then i don't mind slogging as long as it's successful sinces he's primarily a bowler, but shuvagata being a batsman i don't want him to slog just use good cricket shots, i'd want the same with sabbir and mahmudul to since they're future middle order batting prospects.

but yes if riyad can't handle #7 then shuvagata please.

BengaliPagol
June 8, 2012, 08:44 PM
shuvagata can bowl. Make Shuvagata accustomed to the national team by batting at no. 7 and then he can work is way into the middle order

Gowza
June 8, 2012, 08:50 PM
shuvagata can bowl. Make Shuvagata accustomed to the national team by batting at no. 7 and then he can work is way into the middle order

i've got no problem with shuvagata batting at #7 for the NT but i want him to use real shots not slogs.

Tiger444
June 8, 2012, 09:24 PM
For the time being though, Shuvagata and Mominul have to continue to wait before they get a chance in the middle order but its great to see we finally have some good bench strength.
<br />Posted via BC Mobile Edition (Blackberry)

oronnya
June 8, 2012, 09:37 PM
Very good discussion but I think we are going off topic here... Can the Mods move this discussion to another thread...

fiasnahk
June 8, 2012, 09:47 PM
Give mahmudullah a few more series i think. Is he really that bad? We didnt lose the asia cup finals because of him, all the other batsmen played very poorly apart from mash. And in tests id like him to stay at No.7. We've only just started winning games, lets not try and change the whole team by bringing in youngsters who will need 20-30 games to perform. Not everyone is a Nasir. With all the hype about anamul, i wouldnt be surprised if it took him 10 games to get accustomed. Bring in one guy at a time, anamul deserves his chance first.

oronnya
June 8, 2012, 09:49 PM
Give mahmudullah a few more series i think. Is he really that bad? We didnt lose the asia cup finals because of him, all the other batsmen played very poorly apart from mash. And in tests id like him to stay at No.7. We've only just started winning games, lets not try and change the whole team by bringing in youngsters who will need 20-30 games to perform. Not everyone is a Nasir. With all the hype about anamul, i wouldnt be surprised if it took him 10 games to get accustomed. Bring in one guy at a time, anamul deserves his chance first.

:up:
Yup that's exactly the point I was making earlier !!!

Gowza
June 8, 2012, 10:10 PM
whether you believe riyad was the reason for the loss of the asia cup or not his playing style isn't suited to #7. for him to keep that spot he's going to need to develop the boundary hitting part of his game. batsman are supposed to score much more quickly in the last 10 overs and especially the last 5 overs and riyad has shown time and time again that he can't accelerate when needed, i'm not saying he doesn't have the ability but he hasn't been able to do it whether it's a choice he's made or his game isn't developed enough doesn't really matter it's something he's going to have to fix either way. but for now his game doesn't suit #7.

i'd give him a few more games not a few more series, he's a very experienced ODI player now, the coach and selectors need to tell him this is your role accelerate at the end of the match and if he isn't able to manage it then someone else will be tried.

Gowza
June 8, 2012, 10:23 PM
more on topic, we could try mushy as #3 in the shorter formats, if he's successful we could look at him for the #3 spot in tests but then he'd definitely have to give up the gloves in the longer format which would mean we'll need to allow a spot for a keeper in the test team unless anmul bats at #7 and keeps but i think he's too good not to have at the top of the order. although anamul could turnout to be the long term #3.

Zunaid
June 14, 2012, 11:58 PM
Very good discussion but I think we are going off topic here... Can the Mods move this discussion to another thread...

Moved to this thread.

In the future, would you mind using the "report feature"? That ensures moderators get to see it. Often, posts like yours within a thread gets buried quickly in a stream of responses and might not make it to a moderators attention.

TimAus
June 15, 2012, 05:53 AM
I don't think Mahmudullah's place should be under threat. He is definitely one of the best 11 cricketers in Bangladesh and should be in the side. When you start bringing in players to do a role like "slog at number 7" you're going down the wrong path. If you have an Andrew Symonds or Lance Klusener then fine, they are perfect for that spot, but if you don't then play to your strengths. Find another way to win that doesn't involve slogging 100 from the last 8 overs because an inferior slogger will just end up getting out for no runs and suddenly you've got a non-contributor keeping a good player out of the side.

Personally I'd have Shakib, Nasir, Mahmudullah and Rahim as 4, 5, 6, 7 in that order.

Gowza
June 15, 2012, 06:41 AM
with mushys recent exploits at #3 in domestics it's possible he could get a run at #3, if mushy can be successful at #3 then anamul can open and we can bring in shuvagata or mominul to take mushy's place in the middle order (or move riyad up). i'm glad riyad did well today, but he still has to do it against the best quality bowlers, doing it to guys like malinga, steyn, ajmal is a lot different to doing it to the zim select bowlers.

oronnya
June 15, 2012, 10:34 PM
Moved to this thread.

In the future, would you mind using the "report feature"? That ensures moderators get to see it. Often, posts like yours within a thread gets buried quickly in a stream of responses and might not make it to a moderators attention.

Thank you !!

I never knew of that option !! Where is the feature actually?

Zeeshan
June 15, 2012, 10:36 PM
@oronnya

At your upper right hand corner.

http://www.banglacricket.com/alochona/images/BanglaCricket/buttons/report.gif (http://www.banglacricket.com/alochona/report.php?p=1534287)

oronnya
June 15, 2012, 10:44 PM
@oronnya

At your upper right hand corner.

http://www.banglacricket.com/alochona/images/BanglaCricket/buttons/report.gif (http://www.banglacricket.com/alochona/report.php?p=1534287)

aha, how did I miss that :facepalm:
ok thank you :)

Sohel
June 16, 2012, 05:18 AM
One of the headaches coach Pybus will have is what order we should have our middle order. It seems pretty cloudy still even though we have the pieces. Mushy so far has been disappointing at #4, Riyad has been disappointing as well at #7. So do we move those guys up? If we do then that means Nasir will have to bat at #7 but isn't that too low for a guy who has looked like a genuine match winner? It'll be interesting to see what Pybus does with our middle order.

I think our middle order is pretty solid from 5 to 7 with Shakib, Mushfique and Nasir with other classic MO guys like Shubhagauto, Rumman, and (even) Ashraful waiting in the wings. I don't have an issue with Riyad playing at number 7 or 8 in tests either. Top order's another story in all formats. Even if Shakib moves up to number 4, something I feel he should because Riyad seems afraid to in all formats, we'll still need a steady, not streaky opener with Tamim before any of the MO guys I've mentioned bat at number 5 (probably Mushfique). I have faith in Bijauy to succeed either as an opener or at number 3, that still leaves an unworkable hole up there.

Sorry, but I won't put my money on Imroze, Shagor or Aumi for reasons I've already overposted in this forum. DeshiKohlis Nazimuddin, Nauyon or GOD have mercy, Riyal isn't an option AT ALL in my book of international cricket. Their domestic bullying and fluke international performances, actually witnessed and contextualized by yours truly, mean ZILCH to me.

Shouraubh should get a go but I'm not nearly as confident on him as I am on Bijauy. A guy like Fazle Rabbi needs to work on his temperament before his considerable ability is translated into steady performances at the highest level. Ratul or Shoummo is simply too green with Shoummo yet to make a serious mark in domestic cricket. Zia has worked on his temperament during his recent emergence as a domestic top order batsman, but I'm not sure if he has the basic ability to turn that into sustainable success at a MUCH higher level.

So IMHO, we have a top order conundrum as always, as opposed to one in the middle :)

playmaker
June 16, 2012, 06:35 AM
i know that we have both top and middle order conundrum but you know what, our tail enders are the worst set of batsman in the world right now. Can any1 tell me how many times we lost because of our poor tail enders in recent times? We go easily from 220/6 to 235/10 in the blink of an eye. And a big culprit is lalla, he can only slog against the spinnerss but when he comes to bat he has to take on pacers not spinners.

Tiger444
June 16, 2012, 07:50 AM
I think our middle order is pretty solid from 5 to 7 with Shakib, Mushfique and Nasir with other classic MO guys like Shubhagauto, Rumman, and (even) Ashraful waiting in the wings. I don't have an issue with Riyad playing at number 7 or 8 in tests either. Top order's another story in all formats. Even if Shakib moves up to number 4, something I feel he should because Riyad seems afraid to in all formats, we'll still need a steady, not streaky opener with Tamim before any of the MO guys I've mentioned bat at number 5 (probably Mushfique). I have faith in Bijauy to succeed either as an opener or at number 3, that still leaves an unworkable hole up there.

Sorry, but I won't put my money on Imroze, Shagor or Aumi for reasons I've already overposted in this forum. DeshiKohlis Nazimuddin, Nauyon or GOD have mercy, Riyal isn't an option AT ALL in my book of international cricket. Their domestic bullying and fluke international performances, actually witnessed and contextualized by yours truly, mean ZILCH to me.

Shouraubh should get a go but I'm not nearly as confident on him as I am on Bijauy. A guy like Fazle Rabbi needs to work on his temperament before his considerable ability is translated into steady performances at the highest level. Ratul or Shoummo is simply too green and with Shoummo yet to make a serious mark in domestic cricket. Zia has worked on his temperament during his recent emergence as a domestic top order batsman, but I'm not sure if he has the basic ability to turn that into sustainable success at a MUCH higher level.

So IMHO, we have a top order conundrum as always, as opposed to one in the middle :)

Great post and agreed 100%. Our bigger problem lies in our top order compared to our middle order. Actually since being VC, Riyad has stated that he's willing to bat anywhere now. I think he could get a few more chances at #4. He did well in his 1 innings there at #4 against Australia. Actually it was a very classy innings from him.

I think it was a good decision overall to have Anamul in to the set up. He might not be able to plug in both of our top order holes but even plugging 1 of those holes at this time will be golden for us. I also have a lot of faith in him as well.

I'm not the biggest fans of Imrul and Junaid but we have no choice but to continue with them until the likes of Asif and Shoummo develop further. Zia's definitely a guy we should look at as well. We shouldn't get too disheartened at the fact that he failed yesterday. It doesn't take away from the fact the guy can really hit big. I've also liked the attitude he possesses. He seems to be very driven and won't just settle on being in the national team.

So yes, top order remains the bigger worry and will remain unless our guys step up and score runs.

mali007
June 16, 2012, 09:29 AM
We should try Mominul Haq in the middle , he has courage and good technique for short version ,

TimAus
June 16, 2012, 08:58 PM
I think our middle order is pretty solid from 5 to 7 with Shakib, Mushfique and Nasir with other classic MO guys like Shubhagauto, Rumman, and (even) Ashraful waiting in the wings. I don't have an issue with Riyad playing at number 7 or 8 in tests either. Top order's another story in all formats. Even if Shakib moves up to number 4, something I feel he should because Riyad seems afraid to in all formats, we'll still need a steady, not streaky opener with Tamim before any of the MO guys I've mentioned bat at number 5 (probably Mushfique). I have faith in Bijauy to succeed either as an opener or at number 3, that still leaves an unworkable hole up there.

Sorry, but I won't put my money on Imroze, Shagor or Aumi for reasons I've already overposted in this forum. DeshiKohlis Nazimuddin, Nauyon or GOD have mercy, Riyal isn't an option AT ALL in my book of international cricket. Their domestic bullying and fluke international performances, actually witnessed and contextualized by yours truly, mean ZILCH to me.

Shouraubh should get a go but I'm not nearly as confident on him as I am on Bijauy. A guy like Fazle Rabbi needs to work on his temperament before his considerable ability is translated into steady performances at the highest level. Ratul or Shoummo is simply too green with Shoummo yet to make a serious mark in domestic cricket. Zia has worked on his temperament during his recent emergence as a domestic top order batsman, but I'm not sure if he has the basic ability to turn that into sustainable success at a MUCH higher level.

So IMHO, we have a top order conundrum as always, as opposed to one in the middle :)

Well you've successfully said how every player in and out of the team isn't good enough, that's not a conundrum, that's a crisis.

Nazimuddin should definitely get more opportunities. Domestic bullying is another word for being a really good player domestically. These are the players who should get picked. Not the ones who look good occasionally but actually average 25 in first class competition despite facing mostly Bangladesh domestic bowlers.

Gowza
June 16, 2012, 09:16 PM
riyad has performed internationally, he still keeps a decent average for ODIs and he had a great start for tests, but does still have work to do. we have shuvagata and mominul as our 2 main middle order prospects right now, shabbir is there 2. nazimuddin could get more chances in tests, doesn't need any shorter format chances atm imo he's an FC player domestically and he's been that for years, not not a young kid like anamul who is likely to learn the shorter formats, he's more likely not to at this point so he should focus on tests, might even be worth giving him a middle order opportunity in tests if there is an opening.

Navo
June 16, 2012, 10:08 PM
Well you've successfully said how every player in and out of the team isn't good enough, that's not a conundrum, that's a crisis.

Nazimuddin should definitely get more opportunities. Domestic bullying is another word for being a really good player domestically. These are the players who should get picked. Not the ones who look good occasionally but actually average 25 in first class competition despite facing mostly Bangladesh domestic bowlers.

That's exactly the point. The fact that Nazimuddin mostly faced domestic bowlers puts his statistics (and 'bullying') into sharp perspective. For instance, in Bangladesh, against domestic bowlers and on pitches with low bounce, it is possible to get away with poor/no footwork. The same obviously does not hold abroad or even against quality international bowlers. That's why to get a true picture of the player, domestic statistics need to be matched up with eye-witness evidence (watching the player in domestic tournaments), expert opinion (international coaches' opinions) and overseas stats at U-19, Academy and A level.

There's no doubt that Nazimuddin has had some success at the top of the order in domestic sides. But does that make a solution to our top order crisis/conundrum? No. Looking at the overall picture (as mentioned above), a player like Anamul Haque Bijoy deserves the opportunity even more than Nazimuddin as his stats, technique, temperament, etc all indicate that he will be a more lasting solution. This is corroborated by the expert opinion of coaches like Ian Pont.

Now, Anamul is just 19 and is relatively inexperienced. Does that mean we should keep him in the sidelines in favor of the more experienced Nazimuddin? That is a debatable point but I for one think that he should be given opportunities from this series onwards. Bangladesh does not get many international or A-level games and the chances for him to gain quality experience are limited. Might as well test his mettle in the international arena. It worked for one other Bangladeshi :shakibsmile:

Sohel
June 16, 2012, 10:19 PM
Well you've successfully said how every player in and out of the team isn't good enough, that's not a conundrum, that's a crisis.

Nazimuddin should definitely get more opportunities. Domestic bullying is another word for being a really good player domestically. These are the players who should get picked. Not the ones who look good occasionally but actually average 25 in first class competition despite facing mostly Bangladesh domestic bowlers.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion as I am mine but with all due respect TimAus, you ought to put our so called FC in context. I'm 45, have followed international cricket since I was 7 in England and elsewhere, and now actually live here and have been going to domestic matches regularly since moving back in 2002. I'm hardly a clueless curry cricket newbie in desperate need of wisdom from some great Australian sage without the benefit of watching domestic cricket in this country.

Our FC matches are pretty much non competitive and farcical enough to be referred to as "picnic cricket" by the players themselves. I'm sure you'd agree with them once you actually watch a couple of those matches and understand what's actually behind those numbers. The more you actually watch Nazimuddin play, the more you'll see what I and many others see in him, namely a player who lacks what it takes to succeed at the highest level, and whose inclusion into an international side already full of holes, does far more harm than good. His performance during Asia Cup was the norm, not the exception IMHO.

The RARE streaky runs off of goatlashing strokes notwithstanding, he doesn't sight the ball well at all with horrible footwork, and has difficulty putting bat to ball against above average medium fast pace. On the other hand, getting bogged down by blocking half volleys and full tosses before the inevitable dismissal won't bring him success in the longer versions either against quality bowlers. Just have a good look at the lists of his international innings in all 3 formats, look at the dismissals and then tell me what I'm not seeing that you are.

Now, of course I'm not infallible and been wrong in the past. But I doubt I'm wrong about this one :)

Sohel
June 16, 2012, 11:30 PM
Actually since being VC, Riyad has stated that he's willing to bat anywhere now. I think he could get a few more chances at #4. He did well in his 1 innings there at #4 against Australia. Actually it was a very classy innings from him.

I was at the stadium with BC's Shagor during that and we thought the same. If he plays at number 4 and we don't have anyone better, I'd love to see him sustain success there.

playmaker
June 16, 2012, 11:36 PM
Noway does nazimuddin deserves too much of chance, if you play 11 ODI matches and still score only 140 runs at the top you dont do justice to your team. U need to have two solid batsman at the top no matter what even if that means putting an in-form middle order batsman as an opener. The openers have the responsibilty of ensuring a collapse dont begin. Remember what happened in the WI and Pak series? Tamim's off form led to collapse in the top order. And in Asia Cup thankfully tamim did well to cover up for nazimudding otherwise there cudve been a collapse in the batting order as well.

TimAus
June 17, 2012, 12:57 AM
There are clearly big problems with the local First Class competition, I'm not saying for a moment that the competition is anywhere near the standard it should be. However apart from the occasional 'A' tour it is the only cricket played over more than 50 overs that players trying to impress for the test side get. If the standard is so low then good players should be dominating the inferior players there and averaging in the 50s and 60s, (this is what happens in India where they have a similar farcical First Class system).

I'm not saying Nazimuddin is an amazing player waiting to take the world by storm but I am saying he deserves to be in the side due to good performances in First Class Cricket (more that other players don't deserve to be there because of their poor performances). Players need to get used to scoring big runs. You can't score a few 30s in ODIs and expect to be able to bat for 6 hours in a test match to get the big hundreds required there.

If First Class cricket in Bangladesh is so poor then it is up to players like the ones you've mentioned to put it in their place. You can't have players complaining about the poor standard of cricket they are subjected to when they are only averaging in the low 30s at best. Guys who think they're way too good for the format should go and average 80 in it one year to prove they are too good, not be lazy about it and drag the standard down further. It wouldn't be considered picnic cricket if players knew they needed runs there to be in the national team.

Rifat
June 17, 2012, 01:00 AM
^^Perfectly put, TimAus :)

in other words, more players should average 40s or 50s coming from our Domestic setup! is that the case?

Sohel
June 17, 2012, 01:07 AM
@TimAus: All I'm saying is that we must contextualize stats as qualitatively as possible to assess things better. Many good Bangladeshi players don't do as well in our alleged FC as they do internationally because they don't take FC seriously. I'm not at all suggesting that's a good or desirable thing, but that is a fact.

Then again you have guys putting up numbers there who won't get away with at the highest level what they regularly get away with in the NCL. So basic abilities like sighting the ball, temperament, the ability to rotate the strike with ease and playing high percentage shots as demanded by particular match situations, the nature of particular dismissals, and a demonstrated ability to learn from unforced batting errors as well as challenges matter, especially against decent bowing.

Sadly, conventional cricketing wisdom won't apply to Bangladesh until and unless the monumental gap between the highest level and our domestics is bridged over time. In the meantime, perhaps the better way to gauge a player's international sustainability is through performances in extensive A Team cricket and better FC in foreign countries like India or Sri Lanka yet to be scheduled by BCB. I'm touched by your interest in our cricket and seeing is believing. I hope you keep watching our guys and put their numbers in context. I'm sure someone as passionate and knowledgeable as yourself will see that soon enough. :)

TimAus
June 17, 2012, 01:18 AM
I totally agree with you, but there is a point where a line in the sand must be drawn and players must be told to perform or not be picked. It's up to the heads of Bangladesh Cricket to communicate to the players what is expected of them and what they need to do to be picked, then follow through with that. Everyone would agree that a stronger FC comp would improve Bangladesh Cricket so the board should make performances there a priority.

If someone makes big runs there then pick them, if other more talented players are unhappy with this then it is up to them to lift their game and get the runs on the board. If you can't average 40 in Bangladesh FC then you'll never average 40 in tests. We can sit here all day and point out players who are better than Nazimuddin, but if these guys want to take his spot they need to make more runs they he did. If they are that much better then it shouldn't be that difficult.

Sohel
June 17, 2012, 01:26 AM
Agreed, I find the lack of seriousness and professionalism amongst many of our cricketers tragic. If cricketer X can put up decent numbers in FC, however crappy it may be at this time, cricketer Y with better ability must put up better numbers. Sadly, that's not the case at all partially because there is no reasonable and transparent selection criterion here. Nepotism and backdoor lobbying get players in, and then decontexualized stats are selectively and dishonestly used to justify their inclusion to a baffled and exasperated public, almost saintlike in their loyalty and passion for Bangladesh.

BengaliPagol
June 17, 2012, 02:20 AM
Btw who currently averages the highest in our FC comp? Im guessing its Shuvagata. But i think his average is bumped up due his 166*.

The strange thing is if our FC cricket is so poor then why dont we have players averaging 50 or maybe even 60? It cant be because players arent taking FC cricket seriously.