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View Full Version : The Big Fight: No.1 All-Rounder In World: Shakib Al Hasan Vs Jacques Kallis


shams91
August 22, 2012, 08:36 AM
Round One: ODI Comparison and Analysis! Part 1 (Batting)

BT= Batting SR= Strike Rate HS=Highest Score CE= Century

Shakib Al Hasan: BT - (AV: 35.63) (SR: 78.07) (HS: 134*) (CE: 5)
Jacques Kallis: BT- (AV: 45.26) (ST: 72.97) (HS: 139) (CE:17)

According to the figures, it is clearly evident that Kallis has a better batting average than Shakib. This does not clearly show both players ability or quality. The strike Rate of Shakib is near 80 due to his eagerness in wanting singles every ball that is bowled at him. In contrast, Kallis is someone who takes time at the crease to settle in before he starts to attack and play his normal game. The Dashing All-Rounder Shakib Al Hasan has faced 4656 deliveries in which he has hit one boundary in every 14 delivery and has managed to hit one six in every 186 delivery. In comparison, Jacques Kallis has faced 15756 deliveries at which he has hit one boundary in every 17 delivery and one six in every 115 delivery. It can be seen that Jacques Kallis becomes a destructive batsmen if he settles in as you can see that in every 115 delivery he has managed to hit a six compared to Shakib Al Hasan one six hit in every 186 delivery. However, Shakib Al Hasan hits more boundaries in quicker time than Jacques Kallis as in every 14 delivery he hit’s a boundary compared to Kallis who hit’s a boundary in every 17. It is very hard to compare both the players as one overrides the other in some way. But if you look at how many time each player was caught while batting, it will become much easer. In every 126 delivery Jacques Kallis has been caught by the fielding side compared to Shakib Al Hasan being Caught in every 133 delivery on average. This just shows clearly that Shakib Al Hasan is slightly leading Kallis in terms of one of the best All rounder in ODI in the current generation. It has to be respected that Jacques Kallis has played most of his ODI games against top 8 opposition compared to Shakib Al Hasan.

(please share your views on the stats and analysis - if you find mistakes please tell me)

Part 2: ODI Bowling Comparison will be up in few days.:)

Naimul_Hd
August 22, 2012, 08:56 AM
I can't see any big fight about it. The answer is crystal clear, its Jacques Kallis !!

shams91
August 22, 2012, 08:58 AM
I can't see any big fight about it. The answer is crystal clear, its Jacques Kallis !!

yes ofcourse it is, but when you compare one by one, like ODI Batting with batting, bowling with bowling, it becomes interesting because you have a shakib win and a kallis win, so hard to separate them. its ODI ofcourse.

nycpro96
August 22, 2012, 09:21 AM
If you ask me who I want on my team if I had a fantasy draft today, I'd pick Sakib hands down. But, that doesn't mean Sakib's the better allrounder, cricketer, batsman or bowler. Kallis has had a golden career and relative to that, Sakib is merely a rookie. He's impressed mightily in the relatively short amount of time but these comparisons are just childish. Kallis has done what Sakib is doing and even better than that, consistently throughout his entire career.

zinatf
August 22, 2012, 10:06 AM
:yawn: what a topic. Unless and until Shamone (J.K's gf or any other girls involved) in it. What fight?! ;)

Pun intended.

Dilscoop
August 22, 2012, 10:06 AM
Ravi Jadeja. /Final.

BrianLara7
August 22, 2012, 10:18 AM
And then BD fans complain about other countries people being arrogant... Kallis is arguably the greatest all rounder ever and one of the best batsmen the game has ever seen.. Shakib has miles to go before he can be compared with kallis. Here is Shakib, Watson and kallis ODI records taking out minnows (only top 8 teams)- Shakib- bat avg 30.57 bowl avg 34.31
Kallis- bat avg 43.62 bowl avg 32.20
Watson- bat avg 37.39 bowl avg 30.17

Just look at how big the difference is, not just kallis but even Watson is some distance ahead of Shakib. This post is not meant to offend anyone, I am a Bangladeshi but before that I am an unbiased cricket fan.

Dilscoop
August 22, 2012, 10:31 AM
Just because Shakib is currently ranked No.1 by some ranking system doesn't mean you get to compare him with one of the game's ALL TIME best. People in Shakib's thread making us look like a joke, now you are here making us look like a joke, exclusively.

Whoever is bringing up this valueless comparison helping me with one thing for sure. And that is who to avoid having a proper, cricket discussion with in the future. I'm not here for the rickshaw-walla talk. Because that's what it sounds like reading all these from the outside.


Amateurs...

hoodlum
August 22, 2012, 10:36 AM
Eshob fight/comparison kore we just make ourselves fool. Ki dorkar eshob er? Let him play for another 10 years and come back with the statistics.

shams91
August 22, 2012, 10:42 AM
this thread was never intended to say Shakib is better than Kallis. This Thread was intended to show how close shakib is in terms of stats to kallis, not just the batting average. Batting average alone does not show a person's quality.

~~ofcourse Kallis is a living legend~~

oronnya
August 22, 2012, 10:55 AM
oof ek topic r koto???? stop all these comparison... it's really childish... Shakib has a very different role to play than Kallis... even if Shakib never reaches Kallis's height in terms of stats you can't undermine Shakib's huge contribution to lift up BD cricket... So stop comparing.. Shakib will never be Kallis and he doesn't have to as he will be respected as one of the greats if BD can reach higher ranks and if Shakib continues to maintain his form...

crikss
August 22, 2012, 11:36 AM
I bet Kallis dont even care about all this ranking

simon
August 22, 2012, 11:44 AM
I think there are quite a few things which are little contradictoires between Sakib & Kallis.
I mean u can easily compare Sakib with Afridi & Kallis with Watson.
Kallis & Watson both are mainly batsmen, they are more valuable as a batsman than AR.
Sakib or Afridi both are picked mainly for their AR capabilities.

I think most of us here are chosing Kallis over Sakib looking at Kallis as a player(batsman)
But as we are talking about Allround skills I would personally look at the impact or the depth in their AR skills.
If Sakib is picked in a team it will be mainly as an AR, if Kallis is picked it will be mainly as a batsman.
To me honestly Sakib is a more effective AR than Kallis, u can send Sakib to bat at almost any position(same goes for Kallis), u can give the ball to Sakib whenever u want to( he opened for us many times,may be for KKR/Worcs too ) but usually Kallis is not used as a main strike bowler but plays more of a supporting role( like Watson)

Dilscoop
August 22, 2012, 12:05 PM
^ Kallis is not a batting ALR! You are saying that based on SA's recent usage of his bowling powers. Back in the day he was their first change bowler, wicket taker, econ bowler. They don't need him to bowl as much anymore.

simon
August 22, 2012, 01:51 PM
^^may be I didn't watch much of cricket those days that you are referring to but what ever it is Sakib will remain as our prime bowler as well as batsman for the years to come.
And that's why no matter how big a legend Kallis is when it comes to the ranking of AR Sakib will retain his n°1 AR spot with ease(ODI) & most probably in Tests too( only if we play more tests :waiting: )

And we can imagine if Sakib continues like this for the next 8-10 years people will remember Sakib THE ALLROUNDER more than KALLIS The All rounder.

crikss
August 22, 2012, 02:46 PM
After 8-10 years then only we should compare Shak with Kallis...In current situation comparing Shakib with Kallis is just a joke

Dilscoop
August 22, 2012, 02:52 PM
@Simon Then may be people should cut the premature crap and come back after 8-10 years? I don't see the point in this talking about it now.

Look, anyone and everyone who loves BDesh cricket would love for Shakib to be as good or even greater than Shakib. But to even compare him with one of all time greatest right at this moment only makes us look very ignorant.

Also, where does the comparison come from? I mean, did people just wake up this morning and thought about this during breakfast? Obviously Kallis is the "landmark" -- a true definition of a balanced ALR. That's why the comparison. Did Shakib break the landmark set by Kallis yet? Is he even close? No and no. So lets just wait a bit and not make us look like bunch of blind biased fans.

(Really tempted to open a Jadeja > Shakib thread in ICF. Then you people will see what we sound like right now...)

Dilscoop
August 22, 2012, 02:55 PM
Personally, I wanna be able to compare Shakib with Imran Khan-- a great leader and a fighter. Kallis doesn't have that aspect. I want us to win bunch of WC under Shakib al Hasan and I want him to be even better leader than Imran Khan.

shams91
August 22, 2012, 06:38 PM
guys please read the full thread and then comment, you will find some interesting stats and analysis.

Gowza
August 22, 2012, 08:42 PM
kallis isn't really used as an allrounder too often these days, at current he is clearly a batting allrounder and the reason is because in his team he's not good enough to be a main strike bowler at this point. yes he was first change early in his career, but for a good number of years now he hasn't been a main go to bowler.

shakib on the other hand is and has been for awhile now the #1 BD bowler and he's pretty much the #1 batsman to.

now lets get to the nitty gritty. kallis plays for SA the strongest team right now and has been one of the strongest over the last 15 or more years. BD on the other hand is one of the weakest.

however i think most teams would love to have shakib as a specialist bowler if they could, but would they love to have kallis as a specialist bowler? yes he is capable but nowadays at least the answer would most certainly be no.

next thing to look at, would most teams love to have shakib as a specialist batsman? some would, some wouldn't, the stronger ones wouldn't most likely, not as a specialist. would they love to have kallis as a specialist batsman? yes, completely and utterly yes i don't think any team would ever turn him away as a specialist batsman.

last thing to look at is would teams love to have them as allrounders? shakib most certainly yes, he might not make it to all teams as a specialist top 6 bat but he'd certainly be welcome in all teams as an allrounder batting at #7, keeping in mind he'd also be a main bowler in most teams. now would they love kallis as an allrounder? possibly but more than likely they'd prefer to take him as a specialsit bat and if need be he'll bowl a bit. it doesn't mean kallis isn't an allrounder but it brings the question of who is the more useful allrounder?

let's check kalli's bowling record in the earlier part of his career, keep in mind he's a pacer not a spinner like shakib. first 10 years aprox he averaged 31.6 in tests strike-rate of 68, for ODIs average of 32.07 strike-rate of 40.1. now let's look at the first 5 years aprox where in tests he averaged 28.41 strike-rate of 70.6, in ODIs average of 30.08 and strike-rate of 38.6

lets get shakib's stats. he hasn't done 5 years of test cricket yet, about 4 so what are his stats? average of 31.36 strike-rate 66.4 fors ODIs his first 5 years aprox. average of 28.75 strike-rate of 40.2.

so bowling wise they don't look to much different if you compare when kallis's bowling was being used more often. but you have to remember kallis was a pacer, shakib a spinner so relatively shakib has better stats.

something interesting to take note of is in 4fers and 5fers. shakib in his 26 tests has 3 4fers and 9 5fers a total of 12. kallis in his 155 test matches has 7 4fers and 5 5fers a total of 12. in ODIs shakib has 4 4 fers and no 5fers to kallis's 2 4fers and 2 5 fers but shakib has played 126 ODIs to kallis's 321. these stats suggest shakib is a greater wicket-taking bowler than kallis is and more of a match winner with the ball especially in tests despite them having similar averages and strike-rates. now we can comeback and say that's only because kallis hasn't been bowled as much lately because he isn't needed. but kallis has played nearly 6 times as many tests as shakib and 2.5 times more ODIS than shakib, so even if kallis hasn't been used as much lately, for shakib to have more 4fers and 5fers tells us shakib is more of a strike bowler even if you compare the early days of kallis to shakib.

just so people don't come and say you should compare the 4fers and 5fers from early on in kallis's career since he could have got them all in the early part well in his first 39 tests he only got 1 5fer and in ODIs he got 1 5fer and 0 4fers. unfortunately stats guru wasn't showing the 4fers in the tests so wasn't able to compare that but it shows that even in kallis's early part when he was used more he wasn't as effective as shaklb, in fact he was more effective when he wasn't used as much.

what you also have to remember is in the 2nd half of kallis's career he often bowled only in favourable conditions to his bowling. for example in pace friendly conditions instead of taking a spinner kallis was an option for the 4th bowling spot. shakib is used regardless of conditions.

but one thing is for sure. kallis is a great, he's a batting great alone but he's certainly one of the best allrounder greats to. shakib is yet to reach that feat, but he's young, he's already performing and he has the talent to put himself up there with the best ever.

Zunaid
August 22, 2012, 08:43 PM
Everyone is saying the same thing except one. The jury is still out on Shakib. Let's come back to this thread in 10 years time.

NoName
August 23, 2012, 02:38 AM
People comparing Shakib with Kallis, currently, after he regained #1 status must also realize that Shakib is a rising player atm and Kallis is past his prime years, heck he rarely bowls anymore so he is more of a batsman right now.

Gowza
August 23, 2012, 04:17 AM
it's tough to compare the 2 because kallis is nearing the end of his career and shakib hasn't even reached his prime yet. but also one is a pacer the other is a spinner, kallis is one of the greats of batting shakib hasn't reached got to those heights, shakib is the #1 spinner for his team kallis was just a first change bowler.

you have to delve really deep to compare these 2, but really as said by NoName shakib is on the rise, kallis is on his way out. the only way to really compare them is to compare kallis's early days to what shakib has done so far.

playmaker
August 23, 2012, 09:10 AM
The thread opener should know that shakib hasnt played more than 6 years so why comparing the achievement in the last 10 years? :facepalm:

shuziburo
August 25, 2012, 02:09 AM
I voted Kallis. Shakib has been the best the last 4 years or so. However, Kallis's career is better than Shakib's. However, if Shakib does not have an unexpected decline, he would overtake Kallis as an all-rounder.

shuziburo
August 25, 2012, 02:17 AM
I like Kallis, but he is the greatest all-rounder ever, even arguably! Kallis had a great career, but he is not the greatest all-rounder ever. Both Sobers and Botham were heads above him as all-rounders.
Right now, Shakib is the better all-rounder, but Kallis had a much better career. We should let Shaib play at least 10 years before making any judgment about his career.

And then BD fans complain about other countries people being arrogant... Kallis is arguably the greatest all rounder ever and one of the best batsmen the game has ever seen.. Shakib has miles to go before he can be compared with kallis. Here is Shakib, Watson and kallis ODI records taking out minnows (only top 8 teams)- Shakib- bat avg 30.57 bowl avg 34.31
Kallis- bat avg 43.62 bowl avg 32.20
Watson- bat avg 37.39 bowl avg 30.17

Just look at how big the difference is, not just kallis but even Watson is some distance ahead of Shakib. This post is not meant to offend anyone, I am a Bangladeshi but before that I am an unbiased cricket fan.

godzilla
August 25, 2012, 02:49 AM
This argument is not going to get us anywhere. Shakib has many years left and Kallis is almost on his last legs. This thread will become valid once both Shak and Kallis retires. Than we can sit and argue on who was the best allrounder between these 2

Zeeshan
August 25, 2012, 02:57 AM
Bradman or Ashraful?
Razzak or Murali?
DaRok or The Gayle?
The Rajib or Waqar?

Choices choices....

Tigers_eye
August 25, 2012, 08:01 AM
Cricket is a batsman's game. Kallis has so many centuries in one format that the entire BD teams present and past combined can't equal that. Why compare?

hoodlum
August 25, 2012, 11:34 AM
Cricket is a batsman's game. Kallis has so many centuries in one format that the entire BD teams present and past combined can't equal that. Why compare?

Absolutely.

simon
August 25, 2012, 01:50 PM
Any stats on how many MoM awards they won for the same number of matches and how did they contribute?as a batsman or as a bowler or as an AR?
Could be interesting.
Like in Asia cup vs Ind Sakib was MoM for his quick 49,and vs Srl I think its for his AR performance (0therwise Tamim would have won it if it was only for Saks half century.)
<br />Posted via BC Mobile Edition (Android)

Gowza
August 25, 2012, 06:24 PM
Any stats on how many MoM awards they won for the same number of matches and how did they contribute?as a batsman or as a bowler or as an AR?
Could be interesting.
Like in Asia cup vs Ind Sakib was MoM for his quick 49,and vs Srl I think its for his AR performance (0therwise Tamim would have won it if it was only for Saks half century.)
<br />Posted via BC Mobile Edition (Android)

well it's difficult to go through each match but kallis has 23 MOM awards in tests and as far as i can see shakib has none. for ODIs kallis has 32 and shakib has 13. kallis has 9 "man of the series" in tests and shakib none, in ODIs kallis has 6 and shakib has 5.

it's tough for shakib to get MOM or man of the series in tests because the team never wins so even if he puts in a great performance it gets overlooked by someone on the winning team. the ODI "man of the series" awards is interesting though. kallis has a lot more MOM awards but only one more "man or the series" award.