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View Full Version : Did Lance Armstrong really cheat?


AsifTheManRahman
August 24, 2012, 04:12 PM
These accusations have been on for a long time now. What do you guys think?


The U.S. Anti-Doping Agency stripped Lance Armstrong’s seven Tour de France titles Friday (http://www.thestar.com/sports/article/1246408--lance-armstrong-drops-fight-against-anti-doping-agency-puts-7-tour-wins-at-risk), erasing one of the most incredible achievements in sports after deciding he had used performance-enhancing drugs to do it.


Armstrong, who retired a year ago, was also hit with a lifetime ban from cycling. An athlete who became a hero to thousands for overcoming cancer and for his foundation’s fight against the disease is now officially a drug cheat in the eyes of his nation’s doping agency.


In a news release, USADA said Armstrong’s decision not to take the charges against him to arbitration triggers the lifetime ineligibility and forfeiture of all results from Aug. 1, 1998, through the present, which would include the Tour de France titles he won from 1999 through 2005.


Armstrong has strongly denied doping and contends USADA was on a “witch hunt” without any physical evidence against him.

More (http://www.thestar.com/sports/article/1246622--lance-armstrong-stripped-of-seven-tour-de-france-titles)

BengaliPagol
August 24, 2012, 08:17 PM
I dont get it. If they havent caught him using drugs then why is he banned from the sport altogether? :-/

Ajfar
August 24, 2012, 08:44 PM
^ because he decided to stop fighting the case. Another word he did cheat, if he didn't he wouldn't have stopped. IMO he did cheat, otherwise why stop fighting the allegation?

BengaliPagol
August 24, 2012, 09:16 PM
^ because he decided to stop fighting the case. Another word he did cheat, if he didn't he wouldn't have stopped. IMO he did cheat, otherwise why stop fighting the allegation?

but apparently he said that he is sick of fighting the case. Thats why he has stopped fighting the case. But yeah i guess your right.

ialbd
August 24, 2012, 10:54 PM
"Lance Armstrong is the victim here. he is the true American hero... its that teen Chinese swimmer who did dope." - arright.. I think I am ready for my US visa interview :)

Sohel
August 25, 2012, 12:58 AM
The USADA isn't a corrupt Bangladeshi agency shamelessly susceptible to political influence, protection and subsequent indemnity. It wouldn't have taken such a drastic step unless it was certain beyond a reasonable doubt that Lance cheated. I'm certain as I can be without actually looking at what they have, that the Agency has more than enough hard evidence to back up its claim in case of a major legal challenge in the future.

I know Lance personally and he has always seemed to be a stand up guy who cares about a great many right things. This is indeed shocking and depressing. Just goes to show the inherent frailties of surface level perception based on what we think we're looking at.

Zeeshan
August 25, 2012, 12:59 AM
Really dumb move....i mean i use food, heck just had muscle milk... philosophically in what way is steroids or "blood booster EPO" different than extra vantage like 'sleep' or 'food'.... i mean sure they augment performance but they are not banned.... me thinks this whole anti doping propaganda - no doubt fulled by some ultra conservative right wing thugs to promtoe ideal role model to kids is utterly idiotic.

Why is there anti-doping team to begin with? anyways that's just me ranting.

reverse_swing
August 25, 2012, 06:05 AM
USADA stated that up to 10 former Armstrong teammates were set to testify against him and they found tests that were very much consistent with blood doping, the process of boosting the red blood cell count to enhance the performance. Well, we all know that no physical evidence of blood doping has ever been brought against Armstrong, despite multiple tests. If Armstrong truly believed that the facts would vindicate him, he had a clear path before him, going for arbitration. But he refused to fight. We have to wait until the truth prevails.

Some of you might find this interesting...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17554106

Tigers_eye
August 25, 2012, 07:27 AM
The USADA isn't a corrupt Bangladeshi agency shamelessly susceptible to political influence, protection and subsequent indemnity. It wouldn't have taken such a drastic step unless it was certain beyond a reasonable doubt that Lance cheated. I'm certain as I can be without actually looking at what they have, that the Agency has more than enough hard evidence to back up its claim in case of a major legal challenge in the future.

I know Lance personally and he has always seemed to be a stand up guy who cares about a great many right things. This is indeed shocking and depressing. Just goes to show the inherent frailties of surface level perception based on what we think we're looking at.
Oi bold and underline part ta bhul. Personal vendata can make people do things that a sane person wouldn't do. Each every ten of witness USADA have positive drug tests and got a reduced sentence if they co-operated. Sure they will go against Lance. Anyone would do if USADA comes knocking at their door with a DEAL.
Examples: USC sanctions from NCAA (ex-Miami AD - dead now), current Board of Trusties (including Governor and his possies) of Penn State against Joe Pa.

By the way, USADA can't strip any TDF titles from Lance. It is still his as off now. USADA have no jurisdiction over those title nor do they award them. Only the TDF and ICA can do that. There are internal contacts between them and Lance. He has been assured International Governing body will not follow through with out hard evidence. Lance has passed every single drug test that was given which amounts to over 500 times. Not a single fail. Thus he is not fighting it. :)

Farhad
August 26, 2012, 01:02 AM
What I find hardest to believe in all of this is the sheer number of people that are taking Lance's side on this. This is an American organization going after one of the greatest American heroes of the past few decades. They would not risk their livelihoods on a hunch.

Isnaad
August 26, 2012, 02:11 AM
That awkward moment when you think the thread is about Neil Armstrong at a first glance!

Tigers_eye
August 26, 2012, 08:47 AM
Is it a sure thing that Armstrong will be stripped of all of his titles and prize money now that he's stopped fighting the USADA's charges?
The International Cycling Union (UCI), the world governing body for sports cycling, disputed the USADA's authority to arbitrate the doping case, so it is still theoretically possible that the cycling union will appeal the USADA's ruling.
The UCI says it will withhold comment on Armstrong's USADA-mandated suspension until the agency has submitted a "reasoned decision" to the body, as they are obligated to do by the World Anti-Doping Code. In turn, the International Olympic Committee said that it will await decisions from the USADA and UCI before deciding whether to revoke Armstrong's bronze medal from the 2000 Sydney Olympics (http://www.livescience.com/2780-incredible-evolution-olympics.html). But USADA chief executive Travis Tygart has said that the cycling union is "bound to recognize our decision and impose it." LINK.. (http://news.yahoo.com/did-armstrong-busted-212732618.html)

F6_Turbo
August 30, 2012, 05:15 AM
Of course he cheated...everyone cheats in cycling. Only the idiots didn't cheat.

You know what else he cheated? Cancer, and it's something that changed how many perceived Cancer, and for that alone he is a legend. Nothing can take away from the hundreds of millions of dollars he helped to raise for cancer....and the thousands of people he influenced in a positive manner, and gave the inspiration to fight on.

So while Armstrong the athlete is a disgrace, Armstrong the cancer survivor and activist is an absolute hero.

Leafs PWN
September 10, 2012, 06:49 PM
There is no direct proof. They screwed him hard.

reverse_swing
October 22, 2012, 08:37 AM
Lance Armstrong stripped of all seven Tour de France wins by UCI
Lance Armstrong has been stripped of his seven Tour de France titles by cycling's governing body.
The International Cycling Union (UCI) has accepted the findings of the United States Anti-Doping Agency's (Usada) investigation into Armstrong.
UCI president Pat McQuaid said: "Lance Armstrong has no place in cycling. He deserves to be forgotten."


Read more >> BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/20008520)

BANFAN
October 22, 2012, 10:04 AM
Can he challenge this verdict in US courts of Law??

Ajfar
October 22, 2012, 11:20 AM
I think he already called it a day. And the reason he used is the most lamest excuse over. He said going through the due process will be a lot of hassle and he doesn't feel like going through with it. If he knew he did nothing wrong he would have kept fighting for it. That just tells me he doesn't want to go down that road because he knows it won't end pretty.

BANFAN
October 22, 2012, 03:53 PM
These kind of actions are really unprecedented. Can it have some other dimension to it, that he might just feel that he will not get justice due to undue influences??

I'm sure he was tested before every competition and was cleared. How can they strip him off those ?? I get a feeling of strong political influence in this decision, reasons yet unknown. Even the association doesn't give enough explanation for such action. It's just a verdict they give. Apparently the association will have a tough time to establish any wrong doing in the past events.

I feel he is being brutally victimized for some unknown reasons. I may be wrong.... But it's basing on whatever info we have in hand at this point.

Maysun
October 23, 2012, 12:09 AM
If Armstrong has been stripped off his medals, then those doctors and team directors at the time, should be investigated.

F6_Turbo
October 24, 2012, 01:12 AM
There is no direct proof. They screwed him hard.

What more direct proof do you want? a 1000 pages of documents, and they went back to test samples with modern tests and they are positive!

He didn't get screwed, he did the screwing...lying through his teeth for years and years. He was the greatest cheat in sporting history.

This wasn't the nasty Europeans going after Lance, he got taken down by an American watchdog - and the Europeans reluctantly followed suit.

I'm glad to see his sponsors abandoning him, and I hope they all seek the bonus payments back from him - they won't sue him for everything, they don't want the negative media attention, but I want him to lose some of that $125mil personal wealth he's amassed by being the Greatest Cheat of All Time.

People that defend him are like the 9/11 Truthers or the Birthers - nutjobs.

Jadukor
October 24, 2012, 05:09 AM
he was stripped off a testicle from cancer also... give the guy a break

reverse_swing
January 15, 2013, 06:40 AM
Is it a sure thing that Armstrong will be stripped of all of his titles and prize money now that he's stopped fighting the USADA's charges?
The International Cycling Union (UCI), the world governing body for sports cycling, disputed the USADA's authority to arbitrate the doping case, so it is still theoretically possible that the cycling union will appeal the USADA's ruling.
The UCI says it will withhold comment on Armstrong's USADA-mandated suspension until the agency has submitted a "reasoned decision" to the body, as they are obligated to do by the World Anti-Doping Code. In turn, the International Olympic Committee said that it will await decisions from the USADA and UCI before deciding whether to revoke Armstrong's bronze medal from the 2000 Sydney Olympics (http://www.livescience.com/2780-incredible-evolution-olympics.html). But USADA chief executive Travis Tygart has said that the cycling union is "bound to recognize our decision and impose it." LINK.. (http://news.yahoo.com/did-armstrong-busted-212732618.html)

Lance Armstrong 'doping confession' in Oprah interview


Lance Armstrong admitted to using performance-enhancing drugs while taping a TV interview to be shown on Thursday, sources have told US media.


Read more: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-21024288

Leafs PWN
January 16, 2013, 02:28 PM
Wonder how much he got paid from Oprah for that confession.

Sohel
January 19, 2013, 02:27 AM
Wonder how much he got paid from Oprah for that confession.

Or how much of that he'd need to spend on upcoming lawsuits resulting from the confessions.

Leafs PWN
January 19, 2013, 10:20 PM
Or how much of that he'd need to spend on upcoming lawsuits resulting from the confessions.

Net Worth = $100 Million

I think he'll be just fine ;)

Maysun
January 19, 2013, 10:25 PM
Hope he goes bankrupt

Sohel
January 19, 2013, 11:34 PM
Net Worth = $100 Million

I think he'll be just fine ;)

I won't be so sure about that yet. Now that he has admitted to consciously cheating and perpetuating deliberate fraud for over a decade, and the fact that he considers that kind of cheating to be fundamental to his phenomenal success, his sponsors including the Federal Government (US Postal Service) can sue him for extensive damages and even jail time. We're looking at a massive court costs to add to all that. I doubt that he'll have much left after all is said and done in a decade or so.

Zunaid
January 20, 2013, 12:05 AM
Agree with Sohel. He will be OJfied and end up a pauper or in jail or both.

zsayeed
January 20, 2013, 12:30 AM
^^So why did he decide to commit financial suicide?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/21102475

Sohel
January 20, 2013, 12:44 AM
^^So why did he decide to commit financial suicide?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/21102475

The SCA Promotions lawsuit is the first of MANY lawsuits to come after that public confession. Makes you wonder about his lawyers or his relationship with them! Or maybe this is his way of expiation is losing everything he has earned by cheating, and then taking advantage of a hero-worshiping public's trust as he was betraying it without, according to his won admission, any remorse.

Sohel
January 20, 2013, 02:36 AM
"I'm not the most believable guy in the world right now," Lance Armstrong told Oprah Winfrey during a lengthy interview that was taped on Monday and aired on Thursday and Friday.

Along with issuing this drastic understatement, Armstrong finally confessed to using performance-enhancing drug use during his cycling career, discussed the way in which he bullied those who sought to reveal the truth and got emotional as he discussed coming clean to his 13-year-old son, Luke, about the cheating and the lies.

Here are 24 more of Armstrong's most memorable statements from his interview with Winfrey:

"I viewed this situation as one big lie that I repeated a lot of times."

"I know the truth. The truth isn't what was out there. The truth isn't what I said, and now it's gone -- this story was so perfect for so long."

"It definitely was professional, and it was definitely smart, if you can call it that, but it was very conservative, very risk-averse, very aware of what mattered."

"My cocktail, so to speak, was only EPO, but not a lot, transfusions and testosterone."

"I thought, surely I'm running low [on testosterone] but there's no true justification."

"It was win at all costs. When I was diagnosed [with cancer] I would do anything to survive. I took that attitude -- win at all costs -- to cycling. That's bad. I was taking drugs before that but I wasn't a bully."

"My ruthless desire to win at all costs served me well on the bike but the level it went to, for whatever reason, is a flaw. That desire, that attitude, that arrogance."

"There was more happiness in the process, in the build, in the preparation. The winning was almost phoned in."

"Yes, I was a bully. I was a bully in the sense that I tried to control the narrative and if I didn't like what someone said I turned on them."

"Everybody that gets caught is bummed out they got caught."

"To be honest, Oprah, we sued so many people, I'm sure we did"

"I'm not comfortable talking about other people. I don't want to accuse anybody."

"I went in and just looked up the definition of cheat and the definition of cheat is to gain an advantage on a rival or foe that they don't have. I didn't view it that way. "

"This is not a good time but it isn't the worst part of my life. You can't compare this to an advanced diagnosis. That sets the bar. It is close but I'm an optimist and I like to look forward. This has caused me to look back and I don't like that."

"I didn’t fail a test. Retroactively, I failed those."

"The Foundation is like my sixth child and to make that decision and to step aside was big. It was the best thing for the organization but it hurt like hell. That was the lowest."

"I've lost all future income. You could look at the day and a half when people left. You asked me the cost. I don't like thinking about it but it was a $75 million day. All gone and probably never coming back."

"This is not a good time but it isn't the worst part of my life. You can't compare this to an advanced diagnosis. That sets the bar. It is close but I'm an optimist and I like to look forward. This has caused me to look back and I don't like that."

"If you're asking me if I want to compete again, the answer is hell yes, I'm a competitor."

"The biggest hope and intention was the wellbeing of my children. The older kids need to not be living with this issue in my life. "

"I deserve to be punished. Not sure I deserve a death penalty."

"I told Luke 'don't defend me anymore, don't'."

"I'm deeply sorry for what I did. I can say that thousands of times. It may never be enough to come back."

"And then the ultimate crime is the betrayal of these people who support me and believed in me and they got lied to."

READ MORE (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/19/lance-armstrong-quotes-oprah-interview_n_2500965.html?utm_hp_ref=sports)

While I appreciate him coming clean, such fraud subverting a presumably level playing field is utterly repugnant. I feel sorry for his wife and children.

BANFAN
January 20, 2013, 11:36 AM
He will ultimately get out of this situation.... He did this to challenge the punishment awarded to him...at some future time.

There are many instances of liniment punishment to similar offenses and he admitted everything to draw parallels at some future point, to reduce the disproportionate punishment that he has been awarded.