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shuziburo
September 1, 2012, 06:34 AM
Despite our progress, our batting still is a huge issue. Test batting is obviously the biggest problem. Our batsmen would be wise to follow the valuable advice Sadiq Mohammad got from older brother Mushtaq 'Stay on the wicket and runs will come' (http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/563936.html). I hope all BD cricketers read the CI piece.

kalpurush
September 1, 2012, 07:15 AM
Do we play test? Having difficulties to recall when the last time we have played test cricket!

ICC has planned perfectly to outclass Bangladesh from test cricket IMHO and BCB making sure ICC stays in it's planned path!!

Well, what can you expect from the likes of Lotus-Tutul gang??

Gowza
September 1, 2012, 09:42 AM
yes BD has played half as many test matches as some other test nations in the last year, actually a third is more accurate compared to some. how is a team that's already behind the pack supposed to compete when they get less matches? they need at least the same amount if not more so they can bring themselves up to the level. see the thing with international sports teams and players is that they're constantly getting better, so an players or teams who play less matches/games get left behind.

AsifTheManRahman
September 1, 2012, 09:46 AM
I saw the thread title "Our batting" and immediately, the one word response that came to mind was "SUCKS".

M.H.Rubel
September 1, 2012, 09:52 AM
This is very true.
When WI toured Bangladesh i compared our batting with WI.I forgot the name of the WI top order ,none of them were special their theory was very simple like this one.Stay in the crease leave some delevaries.But our top order cant do it. I like NAZIMUDDIN for this reason.He can leave deliveries. Nazimuddin is a very limited caliber batsman.If he can why not others?

shams91
September 1, 2012, 10:02 AM
sometimes we play wrong batsmen in wrong formats.

But at the same time, we dont play enough test to have a test squad.

Sohel
September 1, 2012, 10:04 AM
Batting well in any format means sighting and playing each ball according to its merit according to match situation.

We have a couple of guys who bat well every now and then, but WE never bat well as a cohesive batting unit. Usually only one or two out of our top batters do well when others fail. Then the successful guys fail in subsequent matches to give the ones who have failed before a taste of success. That's the norm. Only Shakib and Tamim bat consistently well and generally don't fail over more than 3 innings in a row. Maybe Nasir, Riyad and Mushfique can become as consistent over time. That would be nice.

First of all, we always tend to have weak links in the proverbial chain. Selecting players of based on bias, misguided preconceptions, cricketing ignorance and intellectually dishonest, decontextualized and purely statistical geekfesting is something we have excelled at without fail. Naturally we've never fielded eleven players with the ability to sustain success at the highest level. We have always insisted on selecting at least 2 to 3 guys who clearly don't belong and after the rare flukish success here and there, they inevitably cost us matches with their shocking inadequacy some folks simply don't see.

Finally we have all those bad habits we pick up playing sub-par domestic cricket on dead pitches facing shamefully ordinary trundlers and pie-chuckers. Batting without footwork, not rotating the strike and premeditating everything, meaning defensive blocks as well as offensive strokes, may reward some in the NCL and DPL, but they won't sustain success at the highest level. Add mental fragility and the ABSOLUTE refusal to work hard outside "camp"to the mix, meaning on your own without gutani, and there you have it: the typical state our team batting.

Tiger444
September 1, 2012, 10:29 AM
Batting well in any format means sighting and playing each ball according to its merit according to match situation.

We have a couple of guys who bat well every now and then, but WE never bat well as a cohesive batting unit. Usually only one or two out of our top batters do well when others fail. Then the successful guys fail in subsequent matches to give the ones who have failed before a taste of success. That's the norm. Only Shakib and Tamim bat consistently well and generally don't fail over more than 3 innings in a row. Maybe Nasir, Riyad and Mushfique can become as consistent over time. That would be nice.

First of all, we always tend to have weak links in the proverbial chain. Selecting players of based on bias, misguided preconceptions, cricketing ignorance and intellectually dishonest, decontextualized and purely statistical geekfesting is something we have excelled at without fail. Naturally we've never fielded eleven players with the ability to sustain success at the highest level. We have always insisted on selecting at least 2 to 3 guys who clearly don't belong and after the rare flukish success here and there, they inevitably cost us matches with their shocking inadequacy some folks simply don't see.

Finally we have all those bad habits we pick up playing sub-par domestic cricket on dead pitches facing shamefully ordinary trundlers and pie-chuckers. Batting without footwork, not rotating the strike and premeditating everything, meaning defensive blocks as well as offensive strokes, may reward some in the NCL and DPL, but they won't sustain success at the highest level. Add metal fragility and the ABSOLUTE refusal to work hard outside "camp", meaning on your own without gutani, to the mix and there you have it: the typical state our team batting.

Well said. I think our batting will improve. Before we had to rely on 1 or 2 guys to perform but now we have the likes of Tamim and Shakib who have multiple centuries at the Test level and then Mushy who is getting half centuries regularly and it's just a matter of time before he starts hitting centuries more regularly. Riyad has slacked off a bit after a very strong start but I believe it's just a matter of time before he starts getting bigger scores. Nasir hasn't proved himself yet for the longest format but I believe he'll start performing once he gets more matches as he's a class act.

Again it comes down to our problems with our #2 and 3 spots. Once we resolve that issue, I feel we'll start having a lineup that will start clicking more often.

M.H.Rubel
September 1, 2012, 11:47 AM
^^ That's the point. Our main problem is #2 and #3. If we can manage 2 top order batsman totally our batting will be changed. Even if we can manage a partner of Tamim, Full team will be changed. Just waiting for a partner for Tamim in test cricket.

al Furqaan
September 1, 2012, 01:25 PM
ZIM has their Nov-Dec block opened up...PAK has postponed their tour to next year. BCB needs to invite ZC for a tour with at least 2 Tests. We simply don't play enough. It would be good to play a couple Tests with them before the WI series.

Tiger444
September 1, 2012, 01:42 PM
We also don't play enough FC matches. Hopefully that changes now with Pybus on board and the positive change that the FC players are under contract. 20 and 50 over games are also important but not at the expense of FC cricket. Also the pitches need to be better prepared and assist both the batsmen and the bowlers. If these changes are made, then we'll see some changes. Also more longer version cricket needs to be played at the school level which would help with the mindset of our batsmen.

tkandi4
September 1, 2012, 02:19 PM
The criticism against the ICC for not granting us enough test matches is correct, but we should not forget that we also changed the scheduled test matches against NZ to ODI in 2001.

Gowza
September 1, 2012, 04:58 PM
ZIM has their Nov-Dec block opened up...PAK has postponed their tour to next year. BCB needs to invite ZC for a tour with at least 2 Tests. We simply don't play enough. It would be good to play a couple Tests with them before the WI series.

please do this BCB! we need as many test matches as we can get and actually playing zim in tests is very good for our players because the standard won't quite be as high as playing the other test nations but it's still decent quality and certainly better quality than domestics. even if they don't play test matches i think BD and zim would both benefit by organising 4-day matches together.

BengaliPagol
September 1, 2012, 07:13 PM
Nazimuddin did perform during the Ban-Pak test series so we need ot leave him as the opening partner for Tamim for now. #3 should be Anamul.

Night_wolf
September 1, 2012, 08:55 PM
The criticism against the ICC for not granting us enough test matches is correct, but we should not forget that we also changed the scheduled test matches against NZ to ODI in 2001 2010.

you are right..even we changed the 4 day match in ireland to t20 stating preparation for world t20

Tiger444
September 1, 2012, 09:22 PM
Nazimuddin did perform during the Ban-Pak test series so we need ot leave him as the opening partner for Tamim for now. #3 should be Anamul.

That was just 1 innings. After watching him in the Asia Cup, I don't see him doing well at this level. Anyways, he wasn't even in the recent A team tour. So it seems he's off the radar. I would rather have Ash/Junaid there until we find some better top order players.

M.H.Rubel
September 1, 2012, 09:25 PM
you are right..even we changed the 4 day match in ireland to t20 stating preparation for world t20

Vai, 4 day match against the associates are really risky.

Tiger444
September 1, 2012, 09:30 PM
you are right..even we changed the 4 day match in ireland to t20 stating preparation for world t20

They couldn't schedule that match because Ireland couldn't cover the costs.

M.H.Rubel
September 1, 2012, 09:32 PM
Nazimuddin did perform during the Ban-Pak test series so we need ot leave him as the opening partner for Tamim for now. #3 should be Anamul.

Agreed.
Nazimuddin did well in last 2 tests so he should get another 3/4 tests. He is poor in abroad, stillI hope he will continue the performance.
#3 contenders are Junaid and animal. Anamul is better in long format of the 3. So it will be best time for a test debut.

M.H.Rubel
September 1, 2012, 09:37 PM
That was just 1 innings. After watching him in the Asia Cup, I don't see him doing well at this level. Anyways, he wasn't even in the recent A team tour. So it seems he's off the radar. I would rather have Ash/Junaid there until we find some better top order players.

Nazimuddin was in the rader. He was not picked in the A team as he was injured.

Tiger444
September 1, 2012, 09:43 PM
Nazimuddin was in the rader. He was not picked in the A team as he was injured.

Oh ok didn't know that. Thanks bhai. Still I don't want him in there for Tests. Ash and Junaid Are the better options. I know they aren't the ideal options, but they're better than Nazimuddin.

jeesh
September 1, 2012, 10:28 PM
Trouble with our batting is we lack a big innings player. Not necessarily an aggressive batsmen, but someone who can hold his end and play long innings. Like Younis Khan for Pakistan, or Sangakkara for Sri Lanka. Both Rajin and Rokibul Hasan showed early promise but never took off. Mushfiq is often for this role but he is too inconsistent.

You need 1 player in the top 4 who can drop the anchor. Unfortunately we dont have any. A lot of our headaches, troubles will be solved if we can find such a player. Anamul showed promise in Under 19. Lets see if he can do this for us.

Tiger444
September 1, 2012, 10:36 PM
Trouble with our batting is we lack a big innings player. Not necessarily an aggressive batsmen, but someone who can hold his end and play long innings. Like Younis Khan for Pakistan, or Sangakkara for Sri Lanka. Both Rajin and Rokibul Hasan showed early promise but never took off. Mushfiq is often for this role but he is too inconsistent.

You need 1 player in the top 4 who can drop the anchor. Unfortunately we dont have any. A lot of our headaches, troubles will be solved if we can find such a player. Anamul showed promise in Under 19. Lets see if he can do this for us.

The problem with Mushy is that he has to worry about keeping and batting. Now he has captaincy to worry about. His potential as a batsman in the Test level won't be fulfilled if he continues to be a keeper in Tests. I feel it's better he takes the gloves off for Tests and bring Dhiman in who is the much better gloveman. Dhiman's done pretty well with the bat in FC's the past year. So we could give him a try. England, SA, and SL have used a Test match wicketkeeper and it's worked well.

Zeeshan
September 1, 2012, 11:03 PM
is ok. i would not say it's good, but i would not say it's bad either. i'd say it's ok. /analyzethat

Out_You_Go
September 2, 2012, 01:38 AM
Our batting is definitely a worry. As a matter of fact, i went to the stadium to watch the recent Afghanistan-Australia match. Those of who you watched it knows what i am talking about. These Afghanis have 'jaan' in their hands and minds. They hit more and bigger sixes than Australia and the best part is, they stand and deliver. We can never match the strength they have. Reaching 200+ against Australia in UAE pitches is a job well done.

..All i mean to say is i wont be surprised at all if Afghanistan beats us in the tournament. :facepalm:

Ok, now dont bash me up..

jeesh
September 2, 2012, 01:38 AM
Tiger444, i think the problem is his mindset-is not strong minded like Shakib or calm like Riyad. A lot of ppl have played this role before with success-captain/keeper/batsman. Flower, Stewart, even Tatenda Taibu has done more than Mushfiq. I always thought Mushfiq would be our Taibu. In FC Taibu averages close to 40, whereas Mushfiq less than 30. Unacceptable for a top 4 or 5 batsman. Difference between the two is Taibu is more determined and responsible, a fighter. Mushfiq has his days, but is too inconsistent and not exactly reliable.

Having a keeper batsman is a huge advantage. Personally i dont think Mushfiq will make it into the team as a specialist batsman. Still 24, long way to go. Must learn and grow.

jeesh
September 2, 2012, 01:40 AM
Our batting is definitely a worry. As a matter of fact, i went to the stadium to watch the recent Afghanistan-Australia match. Those of who you watched it knows what i am talking about. These Afghanis have 'jaan' in their hands and minds. They hit more and bigger sixes than Australia and the best part is, they stand and deliver. We can never match the strength they have. Reaching 200+ against Australia in UAE pitches is a job well done.

..All i mean to say is i wont be surprised at all if Afghanistan beats us in the tournament. :facepalm:

Ok, now dont bash me up..
Afghanistan is an upcoming team. You are not wrong. They are progressing very fast. 4-5 years ago we would thump them in football. Now we ll be the ones on the receiving end. Now i can see similar progress in cricket.

Out_You_Go
September 2, 2012, 01:46 AM
Afghanistan is an upcoming team. You are not wrong. They are progressing very fast. 4-5 years ago we would thump them in football. Now we ll be the ones on the receiving end. Now i can see similar progress in cricket.

Yah true. That is why this is a worry. We always go steps back whereas people follow the simple rule of stepping forward!

Night_wolf
September 2, 2012, 02:41 AM
The match between afgans and BCB XI(national team in disguise), is this going to be the 1st official/unofficial match between bangladesh sr team and afgan sr team?

al Furqaan
September 2, 2012, 03:51 AM
Tiger444, i think the problem is his mindset-is not strong minded like Shakib or calm like Riyad. A lot of ppl have played this role before with success-captain/keeper/batsman. Flower, Stewart, even Tatenda Taibu has done more than Mushfiq. I always thought Mushfiq would be our Taibu. In FC Taibu averages close to 40, whereas Mushfiq less than 30. Unacceptable for a top 4 or 5 batsman. Difference between the two is Taibu is more determined and responsible, a fighter. Mushfiq has his days, but is too inconsistent and not exactly reliable.

Having a keeper batsman is a huge advantage. Personally i dont think Mushfiq will make it into the team as a specialist batsman. Still 24, long way to go. Must learn and grow.

Mushfiq's Test average is comparable to if not better than Taibu. And reverse-sweeping maestro aka Taibu is hardly more responsible than Ashraful, let alone Mushy. Mushy has won games for bangladesh on SEVERAL occaisions. Has Taibu?

BengaliPagol
September 2, 2012, 04:19 AM
That was just 1 innings. After watching him in the Asia Cup, I don't see him doing well at this level. Anyways, he wasn't even in the recent A team tour. So it seems he's off the radar. I would rather have Ash/Junaid there until we find some better top order players.

Just because someone didnt do well in ODI's doesnt mean he will be bad in test's. He doesnt deserve to be unnecessarily dropped in tests.

BengaliPagol
September 2, 2012, 04:22 AM
bring Dhiman in who is the much better gloveman. Dhiman's done pretty well with the bat in FC's the past year. So we could give him a try. England, SA, and SL have used a Test match wicketkeeper and it's worked well.
or you could let Anamul take the gloves.

jeesh
September 2, 2012, 05:41 AM
Mushfiq's Test average is comparable to if not better than Taibu. And reverse-sweeping maestro aka Taibu is hardly more responsible than Ashraful, let alone Mushy. Mushy has won games for bangladesh on SEVERAL occaisions. Has Taibu?
You missed out ODI's where Taibu has scored a lot of his runs-22 50's, 2 Hundreds, some very good knocks against South Africa in hostile conditions. Lets be candid, Taibu/Taylor are much better than some of our guys. Masakadza and Matsikinyeri are the Ashraful type.

jeesh
September 2, 2012, 05:51 AM
Mushfiq's Test average is comparable to if not better than Taibu. And reverse-sweeping maestro aka Taibu is hardly more responsible than Ashraful, let alone Mushy. Mushy has won games for bangladesh on SEVERAL occaisions. Has Taibu?
Btw i cannot recall match winning knocks. But three innings i recall vividly are
153 against BD in a test match in 2005. This was when they were in trouble
107 not out against SA in 2007 chasing 323.
103 not against SA in 2009 chasing 295.
All three innings have one thing in common. Zimbabwe were pretty much down and out, and he showed grit, fighting spirit and bravery in all three occassions to save Zimbabwe's face. The knocks against SA in particular were impressive given their hostile bowling. If you honestly think, in the BD team only Shakib is capable of such performances.

Tiger444
September 2, 2012, 06:21 AM
Mushfiq's Test average is comparable to if not better than Taibu. And reverse-sweeping maestro aka Taibu is hardly more responsible than Ashraful, let alone Mushy. Mushy has won games for bangladesh on SEVERAL occaisions. Has Taibu?

Taibu's average and SR is a lot higher in matches won against the G8 then Mushy's. So I can't agree with that at all. Besides the 2 match winning knocks against India, Mushy has been pretty disappointing in that regard but he is young still and improving so I except him to improve.

Tiger444
September 2, 2012, 06:39 AM
Tiger444, i think the problem is his mindset-is not strong minded like Shakib or calm like Riyad. A lot of ppl have played this role before with success-captain/keeper/batsman. Flower, Stewart, even Tatenda Taibu has done more than Mushfiq. I always thought Mushfiq would be our Taibu. In FC Taibu averages close to 40, whereas Mushfiq less than 30. Unacceptable for a top 4 or 5 batsman. Difference between the two is Taibu is more determined and responsible, a fighter. Mushfiq has his days, but is too inconsistent and not exactly reliable.

Having a keeper batsman is a huge advantage. Personally i dont think Mushfiq will make it into the team as a specialist batsman. Still 24, long way to go. Must learn and grow.

Well my problem with him is that he's not that good of a wicketkeeper, so might as well give it to someone who can keep better than him.

His stats as a Test batsman has improved over the years. He has a low average mainly because he debuted at such a young age. He initially had an average in the teens. In the last 2 years however, he has an average of a 36 with 1 century and 5 half centuries. So his batting is actually good for our standards and is our 3rd best Test batsman right now. So no question about that he would make our team purely as a batsman. Of course he has to improve but he's on the right track.

M.H.Rubel
September 2, 2012, 06:40 AM
Oh ok didn't know that. Thanks bhai. Still I don't want him in there for Tests. Ash and Junaid Are the better options. I know they aren't the ideal options, but they're better than Nazimuddin.

A big no to Ash. A player who don't want to stay in the crease or can't play big innings in test cricket is just a no to him. Junaid is a good option to me. I want to open with him.
Though Nazimuddin is a crap but dropping him from test will be just a sin. I want to start with:
1. Tamim
2. Junaid
3. Nazimuddin
4. Mominul

Tiger444
September 2, 2012, 06:47 AM
Just because someone didnt do well in ODI's doesnt mean he will be bad in test's. He doesnt deserve to be unnecessarily dropped in tests.

Your missing my point. Watching him from a technique standpoint in the ODI'S, I don't see him succeeding at the Test level. His foot work is just too poor and also his ability to sight the ball isn't that great. Of course you see Dilshan and Sehwag succeeding despite a lack of foot work but their hand-eye coordination is world class. I don't see Nazim being that type of talent. If you want to be successful in Tests, you have to have that special ability and I don't see that with Nazim.

Tiger444
September 2, 2012, 06:49 AM
or you could let Anamul take the gloves.

I would rather have Anamul play purely as a batsman. Plus he's a top order batsman so I wouldn't have him keep.

Tiger444
September 2, 2012, 06:57 AM
A big no to Ash. A player who don't want to stay in the crease or can't play big innings in test cricket is just a no to him. Junaid is a good option to me. I want to open with him.
Though Nazimuddin is a crap but dropping him from test will be just a sin. I want to start with:
1. Tamim
2. Junaid
3. Nazimuddin
4. Mominul

I know Ash isn't a good option but due to the lack of quality we have in our top order, I just think we're left with no choice. So either he or Junaid should get the opener's spot for the time being. We could have Anamul opening and have Mominul at the #3 spot. That way we don't have to play inconsistent batsmen like Ash or Junaid in there. I would rather have Mominul at the #4-6 spots but with those spots already taken, he could bat at #3.

cricket_king
September 2, 2012, 09:55 AM
With all due respect, Zimbabwe's batting outclasses our's. Don't know what some of you guys are on about. Taibu was, until recently, a very, very good batsman. Would've walked into out team and been declared the best batsman easily.

It's their bowling that lacks quality. Little trundlers for pace bowlers and 3 or 4 half-decent spinners, excluding Price.

Tiger444
September 2, 2012, 10:06 AM
With all due respect, Zimbabwe's batting outclasses our's. Don't know what some of you guys are on about. Taibu was, until recently, a very, very good best. Would've walked into out team and been declared the best batsman easily.

It's their bowling that lacks quality. Little trundlers for pace bowlers and 3 or 4 half-decent spinners, excluding Price.

Well said. Taibu, Taylor, Masakadza, and Sibanda wouldve walked in to our side in my opinion. And now they're finding good pacers in their system. Just look at the last Test match we played against them. They played like a genuine Test side whereas we played like a genuine ODI team.

M.H.Rubel
September 2, 2012, 01:27 PM
Your missing my point. Watching him from a technique standpoint in the ODI'S, I don't see him succeeding at the Test level. His foot work is just too poor and also his ability to sight the ball isn't that great. Of course you see Dilshan and Sehwag succeeding despite a lack of foot work but their hand-eye coordination is world class. I don't see Nazim being that type of talent. If you want to be successful in Tests, you have to have that special ability and I don't see that with Nazim.

I know Nazimuddin is a very poor batsman with very limited ability. When he was selected in the team i was totally astonished watching his name. But he did reasonably well against Pakistan. In 2 tests he made 121 runs with an average of 30, which is not bad. He played total 313 balls that is very important. That means he can occupy the crease.
To survive in tests cricket first criteria is occupy the crease. Nazimuddin can leave deliveries outside the off stump which is a rare criteria for our batsman.
I know he is a crap but as he have done reasonably well job he deserve another series.

al Furqaan
September 2, 2012, 02:11 PM
Btw i cannot recall match winning knocks. But three innings i recall vividly are
153 against BD in a test match in 2005. This was when they were in trouble
107 not out against SA in 2007 chasing 323.
103 not against SA in 2009 chasing 295.
All three innings have one thing in common. Zimbabwe were pretty much down and out, and he showed grit, fighting spirit and bravery in all three occassions to save Zimbabwe's face. The knocks against SA in particular were impressive given their hostile bowling. If you honestly think, in the BD team only Shakib is capable of such performances.



I don't recall for sure, but I think in both of those ODIs SA played essentially their A team. Definitely there was no Steyn, Morkel, Tahir, Philander. The highest quality bowler Taibu would have faced would have been someone like Parnell. Plus the pitches were flat, ZIM scored nearly 300 in one of those games. 2007-2009, if you recall, even Bangladesh used to beat ZIM black and blue. Check Taibu's averages against Bangladesh...if he's so good he should average 40+ against us like Taylor.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/new-zealand-v-zimbabwe-2012/engine/match/520591.html

First Test abroad and "classy" batting bowled out 2x in the SAME DAY! This was one of the most lop-sided Tests in the history of the game!

Shakib could score like that, but so too can Tamim, and he has. So did Ashraful (back in the day). Mushfiq can't do that, you're right, but he can if he comes in as a finisher. Mushfiq has hit sixes off Dale Steyn on a GREEN wicket in RSA in a Test match (2008). Zimbabwe have just Taylor who can do something like that. Masakadza is decent, but has Ashraful syndrome, Chigumbura and Coventry...the less said the better, they make Ash look good by comparison. Only good solid bats they have are Taylor (who is probably better than all our guys, at least in terms of performance), and Sibanda. Taibu was decent, as is Masakadza, but nothing more. The rest aren't worth comparing although C Ervine and Chakabva have real potential.

If Zimbabwe were so much better than us, they'd have won more matches against G8 sides since the rebellion than just 2 games vs WI and one vs NZ (the two lowest ranked G8 sides)!

Gowza
September 2, 2012, 08:09 PM
I know Ash isn't a good option but due to the lack of quality we have in our top order, I just think we're left with no choice. So either he or Junaid should get the opener's spot for the time being. We could have Anamul opening and have Mominul at the #3 spot. That way we don't have to play inconsistent batsmen like Ash or Junaid in there. I would rather have Mominul at the #4-6 spots but with those spots already taken, he could bat at #3.

i think if the selectors decide to give nazimuddin more chances as the test opener it's fair enough based on domestic FC performance and doing reasonably in his first couple of tests. i know in one-dayers and t20s he looks horrible but he has done ok in the couple of tests he played (though tbh i don't expect him to be a long term option). if nazimuddin isn't to open then anamul opening and mominul batting at #3 is an option, only thing with that is having two newcomers in the top order but then the current top order hasn't been working so it might be a risk that needs to be taken.

Gowza
September 2, 2012, 08:17 PM
taibu and mushy have played a similar number of test innings with similar results, honestly there isn't much between them in tests in overall stats. now i don't have much in depth knowledge of taibu's test career but mushy in the last 2 or 3 years has done much better in tests than before that. the problem is BD doesn't play many tests so it's hard to say if he's becoming a good test batsmen or he's just hit some lucky form the few times BD have played tests lately. but since he has done well in tests for certainly the last couple of years if not the last 3 years then i think it's more than luck.

when it comes to one-dayers taibu has a better record, but again rahim has been bringing his average up and rahim was never really naturally aggressive or attacking, it's something he's been learning and is still learning so he's not so consistent in the shorter formats because he's very much still learning and unlike in tests where you get all the time you want most often in one-dayers you don't which isn't a natural fit for mushy but he's learning and getting better and has all the tools now just needs to bring them together more often to be more consistent.

also taibu is 5 years older than mushy, that's 5 years more of getting to know your own game, 5 years more of coaching etc. how about in 5 years time we see where mushy is at and then have another chat about taibu V mushy?

Tiger444
September 2, 2012, 08:36 PM
i think if the selectors decide to give nazimuddin more chances as the test opener it's fair enough based on domestic FC performance and doing reasonably in his first couple of tests. i know in one-dayers and t20s he looks horrible but he has done ok in the couple of tests he played (though tbh i don't expect him to be a long term option). if nazimuddin isn't to open then anamul opening and mominul batting at #3 is an option, only thing with that is having two newcomers in the top order but then the current top order hasn't been working so it might be a risk that needs to be taken.

It's a risk worth taking IMO. Mominul has been the most consistent in the last 2 A team tours and deserves to get a shot in the team. And our top order has been a problem for too long. If they end up being the solution then it would be a great thing for us.

Gowza
September 2, 2012, 08:44 PM
It's a risk worth taking IMO. Mominul has been the most consistent in the last 2 A team tours and deserves to get a shot in the team. And our top order has been a problem for too long. If they end up being the solution then it would be a great thing for us.

two good things came form the last A team matches 1) we found out momnul is the most consistent of the fringe players and 2) he did a decent job batting at #3. mominul has always been middle order, him batting at 3 in the A team matches and doing well is a positive sign for BD, he can now be an option at the #3 spot which has been a problem spot for so long. the only query i have with mominul batting at #3 is that anamul wants that spot, he's got the domestic record to back him up, he's just world cup but most of the time he did all that as a #3. anamul can open but #3 is probably his best spot. it's already risky to select anamul so early in his career (despite deserving it), usually when a player is picked young they're put in their favourite spot or they are put in one of the easier spots (#5 or #6 for a batsman). opening is a tough ask for anyone. but i'd be willing to try the combination.

Tiger444
September 2, 2012, 09:06 PM
two good things came form the last A team matches 1) we found out momnul is the most consistent of the fringe players and 2) he did a decent job batting at #3. mominul has always been middle order, him batting at 3 in the A team matches and doing well is a positive sign for BD, he can now be an option at the #3 spot which has been a problem spot for so long. the only query i have with mominul batting at #3 is that anamul wants that spot, he's got the domestic record to back him up, he's just world cup but most of the time he did all that as a #3. anamul can open but #3 is probably his best spot. it's already risky to select anamul so early in his career (despite deserving it), usually when a player is picked young they're put in their favourite spot or they are put in one of the easier spots (#5 or #6 for a batsman). opening is a tough ask for anyone. but i'd be willing to try the combination.

I feel it's the best combination. Mominul looks like a consolidator from the way he bats, which is why he needs to bat at #3/4. I think Anamul could make it as an opener or as a #3.

Gowza
September 2, 2012, 09:33 PM
I feel it's the best combination. Mominul looks like a consolidator from the way he bats, which is why he needs to bat at #3/4. I think Anamul could make it as an opener or as a #3.

as long as mominul can stay around an play big innings then go for it. #3's have to be able to score big, openers to. we know anamul can, mominul has that 150 for BD A but he needs to do that more often in the national team.

BengaliPagol
September 3, 2012, 03:29 AM
I know Nazimuddin is a very poor batsman with very limited ability. When he was selected in the team i was totally astonished watching his name. But he did reasonably well against Pakistan. In 2 tests he made 121 runs with an average of 30, which is not bad. He played total 313 balls that is very important. That means he can occupy the crease.
To survive in tests cricket first criteria is occupy the crease. Nazimuddin can leave deliveries outside the off stump which is a rare criteria for our batsman.
I know he is a crap but as he have done reasonably well job he deserve another series.

spot on.

jeesh
September 3, 2012, 04:23 AM
Its a mystery we need to solve. Many of our main batsmen dont even average 30 in FC cricket. The big innings mentality is just not there.

In India in contrast even batsmen on the fringes average close to 50 in FC. Consider their new boy Pujara. The guys a run machine in FC with an average of 55. Remember Hrishikesh Kanitkar the guy who hit Saqlain for a 4 in a triangular tournament in Dhaka? Even he has retired with a FC average of 53. Now he wouldnt even make it to India B a few years back.

There is something that is wrong with most of our batsmen. Patience, determination, technique, shot selection. Whatever it is cannot be solved by the national team coach. These are things that need to be sorted early, as early as school cricket. Any test batsman must have at least an average of 40 in FC cricket. There is a huge gulf between international cricket and first class cricket. But you cant go to Uni unless you do well in school right.

Gowza
September 3, 2012, 04:31 AM
Its a mystery we need to solve. Many of our main batsmen dont even average 30 in FC cricket. The big innings mentality is just not there.

In India in contrast even batsmen on the fringes average close to 50 in FC. Consider their new boy Pujara. The guys a run machine in FC with an average of 55. Remember Hrishikesh Kanitkar the guy who hit Saqlain for a 4 in a triangular tournament in Dhaka? Even he has retired with a FC average of 53. Now he wouldnt even make it to India B a few years back.

There is something that is wrong with most of our batsmen. Patience, determination, technique, shot selection. Whatever it is cannot be solved by the national team coach. These are things that need to be sorted early, as early as school cricket. Any test batsman must have at least an average of 40 in FC cricket. There is a huge gulf between international cricket and first class cricket. But you cant go to Uni unless you do well in school right.

you make a good point about fringe players averaging 50 or near 50 but really india is the only country that has a number of players averaging 50 or over 50 who aren't in their team. australia use to have it but don't anymore, but atm outside india i don't think any country has fringe players as prolific as the ones in india.

Sohel
September 3, 2012, 05:26 AM
A big no to Ash. A player who don't want to stay in the crease or can't play big innings in test cricket is just a no to him. Junaid is a good option to me. I want to open with him.
Though Nazimuddin is a crap but dropping him from test will be just a sin. ...

Are you serious? How can dropping a "crap" player from the NATIONAL team (not a family owned or neighborhood club of part-timers) be a "sin"? How can you conclude that he has the ability to "stay in the crease" from just ONE performance under extremely favorable conditions (78 from 183)? Going by that deeply flawed and somewhat laughable logic, Mohammad Ashraful Motin, a player with far better ability sight the ball, footwork and overall batting ability should play for us until hell freezes over because he has had better success in tests (114 from 212, 158* from 194, 136 from 184, 129* from 236, 101 from 193, 98 from 181, 81 from 224, 77 from 201, 75 from 120, 73 from 158, 67 from 189, 67 from 41, 60* from 135).

How about all of the other times when Nazimuddin couldn't "stay in the crease" (31 from 79, 0 from 6, and 12 from 42)? You do realize that test batting is harder because bowlers get to bowl without field restrictions under a variety of conditions, not just the NCL ones, right? You do realize that it's not just about "batting slowly" and that you still have to put runs on the board under those conditions, right? Do you honestly think a "crap" player with appalling footwork, fragile character and without the ability to sight the ball early will survive in test cricket in bowler friendly conditions? If not, then why is leaving him out a "sin"? Does real-life cricketing context even matter anymore when decontexualized stats are used to advocate a weird agenda?

Have a little respect for the national team and our intelligence, please!

jeesh
September 3, 2012, 06:20 AM
you make a good point about fringe players averaging 50 or near 50 but really india is the only country that has a number of players averaging 50 or over 50 who aren't in their team. australia use to have it but don't anymore, but atm outside india i don't think any country has fringe players as prolific as the ones in india.
Agree Gowza. Perhaps its the nature of wickets there that makes run scoring so easy in India. But you also got to give them credit. They have the knack of producing very technically sound, run scoring machines.

Some of the Zimbabwean batsmen have very health FC averages. If you look at some of the teams closer to us in ranking-NZ, WI, Sri Lanka, they too have prolific run scorers. I am not talking abt the old guards. For instance in Sri Lanka (Apart from Dilshan, Sanga, Jayawardene) some of the emerging guys have outstanding FC record. Chandimal averages 55, Mathews close to 50, Thirimane over 40.

A lot of ppl say we need sporting wickets to develop our batting. But if our guys cant average 40 in placid wickets, how can they in more grassy bouncy wickets?

Gowza
September 3, 2012, 06:30 AM
Agree Gowza. Perhaps its the nature of wickets there that makes run scoring so easy in India. But you also got to give them credit. They have the knack of producing very technically sound, run scoring machines.

Some of the Zimbabwean batsmen have very health FC averages. If you look at some of the teams closer to us in ranking-NZ, WI, Sri Lanka, they too have prolific run scorers. I am not talking abt the old guards. For instance in Sri Lanka (Apart from Dilshan, Sanga, Jayawardene) some of the emerging guys have outstanding FC record. Chandimal averages 55, Mathews close to 50, Thirimane over 40.

A lot of ppl say we need sporting wickets to develop our batting. But if our guys cant average 40 in placid wickets, how can they in more grassy bouncy wickets?

yes some emerging players do have great FC records even outside india but india has a lot, if you were to list all of the players in india who aren't in the national team/squad who average over 40 in FC cricket that list would be huge. there might be 2 or 3 from other countries but the list wouldn't be anywhere near as big as a list india could make. you mentioned 3 great emerging sri lankan players, they're all currently in the squad for the national team though, so who outside of them and the squad have such great averages? probably not to many. india certainly has a knack for producing batting talent even if as you say the nature of their wickets makes scoring runs easier.

jeesh
September 3, 2012, 06:46 AM
Not a lot to be honest. In a couple of years, Sri Lanka has to replace the likes of Sangakara, Mahela, Dilshan, Samaraweera. No mean feat. All these guys have exemplary records. But Sri Lanka cricket is confident they can. They replaced guys like De Silva, Rantunga, they know they will replace their current legends.

3-4 players are likely to take over the run scoring mantle-Chandimal, Thirimane, Munaweera (One of the highest scorers of SLPL) and Matthews. All of them are by no means more talented and skilled than our batsmen. But for some reason they mature and develop better than our guys.

Gowza
September 3, 2012, 07:20 AM
matthews for a long time has been one of the ones expected to take over, chandimal for a couple of years has also been in that category, i think it was mahela who said he would score over 10,000 test runs and this was before he had played a test match. thirimanne has a really solid FC average in the 40s and whenever i've seen him play he's looked good, well balanced, talented so i expect he will come good. munaweera hasn't got the most impressive record, his strike rate stands out but he'll need to get more consistent.

shuziburo
September 3, 2012, 08:34 AM
This is very ATMR like. Short and incisive. Right now our batting and pace bowling are the biggest problems.

I saw the thread title "Our batting" and immediately, the one word response that came to mind was "SUCKS".

shuziburo
September 3, 2012, 08:41 AM
The problem with Mushy is that he has to worry about keeping and batting. Now he has captaincy to worry about. His potential as a batsman in the Test level won't be fulfilled if he continues to be a keeper in Tests. I feel it's better he takes the gloves off for Tests and bring Dhiman in who is the much better gloveman. Dhiman's done pretty well with the bat in FC's the past year. So we could give him a try. England, SA, and SL have used a Test match wicketkeeper and it's worked well.

I have been advocating for Mushy to be played only as a specialist batsman for quite some time. His batting should improve and he will not drop those obligatory catches.

Tiger444
September 3, 2012, 08:55 AM
Agree Gowza. Perhaps its the nature of wickets there that makes run scoring so easy in India. But you also got to give them credit. They have the knack of producing very technically sound, run scoring machines.

Some of the Zimbabwean batsmen have very health FC averages. If you look at some of the teams closer to us in ranking-NZ, WI, Sri Lanka, they too have prolific run scorers. I am not talking abt the old guards. For instance in Sri Lanka (Apart from Dilshan, Sanga, Jayawardene) some of the emerging guys have outstanding FC record. Chandimal averages 55, Mathews close to 50, Thirimane over 40.

A lot of ppl say we need sporting wickets to develop our batting. But if our guys cant average 40 in placid wickets, how can they in more grassy bouncy wickets?

The pitches are so poorly made in BD that it makes it difficult for the batsmen to be able to score runs. Actually the pitches are so poor that they not even assist either the bowler or the batsmen. In India, on the other hand, they have very good well developed pitches. So it's hard to really blame our guys only. The curators need to at least build decent pitches if proper cricket is to be played.

Tiger444
September 3, 2012, 09:10 AM
Are you serious? How can dropping a "crap" player from the NATIONAL team (not a family owned or neighborhood club of part-timers) be a "sin"? How can you conclude that he has the ability to "stay in the crease" from just ONE performance under extremely favorable conditions (78 from 183)? Going by that deeply flawed and somewhat laughable logic, Mohammad Ashraful Motin, a player with far better ability sight the ball, footwork and overall batting ability should play for us until hell freezes over because he has had better success in tests (114 from 212, 158* from 194, 136 from 184, 129* from 236, 101 from 193, 98 from 181, 81 from 224, 77 from 201, 75 from 120, 73 from 158, 67 from 189, 67 from 41, 60* from 135).

How about all of the other times when Nazimuddin couldn't "stay in the crease" (31 from 79, 0 from 6, and 12 from 42)? You do realize that test batting is harder because bowlers get to bowl without field restrictions under a variety of conditions, not just the NCL ones, right? You do realize that it's not just about "batting slowly" and that you still have to put runs on the board under those conditions, right? Do you honestly think a "crap" player with appalling footwork, fragile character and without the ability to sight the ball early will survive in test cricket in bowler friendly conditions? If not, then why is leaving him out a "sin"? Does real-life cricketing context even matter anymore when decontexualized stats are used to advocate a weird agenda?

Have a little respect for the national team and our intelligence, please!

Agreed. People should realize the fact that Nazimuddin is not going to survive in Tests. It's not that he hasnt gotten chances already. He's had the opportunity to showcase his skills but he showed many times that his technique is not going to survive even in subcontinental conditions.

Ideally I think it's better to eventually give the #2 or 3 spot to Anamul. In the mean time I don't mind having Ash and Junaid in there.

shuziburo
September 3, 2012, 09:15 AM
I would not call Nazimuddin crap. Other batsmen without great technique have succeeded before and Nazimuddin might. I don't hold his 31 from 79 against him; it shows the proper temperament. BTW, his test average is 30.25 (albeit from 4 innings), the so-called "super talent" Ashraful's is 22.60. I wish we have better options, but Nazimuddin is one of the few who have the right temperament for tests, if not the technique. Until better options emerge, I am not against giving him a change. Perhaps, he will surprise us all. If a better test opener is found, we can always switch.

I am saying this with the utmost respect for the national team and the BC members.

Are you serious? How can dropping a "crap" player from the NATIONAL team (not a family owned or neighborhood club of part-timers) be a "sin"? How can you conclude that he has the ability to "stay in the crease" from just ONE performance under extremely favorable conditions (78 from 183)? Going by that deeply flawed and somewhat laughable logic, Mohammad Ashraful Motin, a player with far better ability sight the ball, footwork and overall batting ability should play for us until hell freezes over because he has had better success in tests (114 from 212, 158* from 194, 136 from 184, 129* from 236, 101 from 193, 98 from 181, 81 from 224, 77 from 201, 75 from 120, 73 from 158, 67 from 189, 67 from 41, 60* from 135).

How about all of the other times when Nazimuddin couldn't "stay in the crease" (31 from 79, 0 from 6, and 12 from 42)? You do realize that test batting is harder because bowlers get to bowl without field restrictions under a variety of conditions, not just the NCL ones, right? You do realize that it's not just about "batting slowly" and that you still have to put runs on the board under those conditions, right? Do you honestly think a "crap" player with appalling footwork, fragile character and without the ability to sight the ball early will survive in test cricket in bowler friendly conditions? If not, then why is leaving him out a "sin"? Does real-life cricketing context even matter anymore when decontexualized stats are used to advocate a weird agenda?

Have a little respect for the national team and our intelligence, please!

jeesh
September 3, 2012, 10:04 AM
The pitches are so poorly made in BD that it makes it difficult for the batsmen to be able to score runs. Actually the pitches are so poor that they not even assist either the bowler or the batsmen. In India, on the other hand, they have very good well developed pitches. So it's hard to really blame our guys only. The curators need to at least build decent pitches if proper cricket is to be played.
Hehe well put. Dhaka wicket for example has very low bounce from day three onwards. There's some turn but nothing spectacular, its the uneven bounce that makes a difference. Bowlers best bet is to keep it straight and trap the batsman in front. This is a reason why SLA's do so well. Ctg is slightly better.

Tiger444
September 3, 2012, 12:04 PM
I would not call Nazimuddin crap. Other batsmen without great technique have succeeded before and Nazimuddin might. I don't hold his 31 from 79 against him; it shows the proper temperament. BTW, his test average is 30.25 (albeit from 4 innings), the so-called "super talent" Ashraful's is 22.60. I wish we have better options, but Nazimuddin is one of the few who have the right temperament for tests, if not the technique. Until better options emerge, I am not against giving him a change. Perhaps, he will surprise us all. If a better test opener is found, we can always switch.

I am saying this with the utmost respect for the national team and the BC members.

I agree that you don't need to have "textbook" technique to be good in Test cricket but you need a decent technique at least. You see Dilshan and Sehwag doing well but they have such great hand eye coordination that they get away with poor footwork. Even then you see how they struggle outside of the subcontinent. I just don't see him having even close to that same hand eye coordination that could have him survive at this level and it has shown so far in his international career.

M.H.Rubel
September 3, 2012, 12:56 PM
I would not call Nazimuddin crap. Other batsmen without great technique have succeeded before and Nazimuddin might. I don't hold his 31 from 79 against him; it shows the proper temperament. BTW, his test average is 30.25 (albeit from 4 innings), the so-called "super talent" Ashraful's is 22.60. I wish we have better options, but Nazimuddin is one of the few who have the right temperament for tests, if not the technique. Until better options emerge, I am not against giving him a change. Perhaps, he will surprise us all. If a better test opener is found, we can always switch.

I am saying this with the utmost respect for the national team and the BC members.

Agreed in every single point Suja Vai.
I do agree with you, playing a 22 average player in place of 30 is a funny idea to me. I ll pick Nazimuddin in every single day in place of Ash. Atleast Nazimuddin have the temperament.

M.H.Rubel
September 3, 2012, 01:25 PM
Are you serious? . . . .
Have a little respect for the national team and our intelligence, please!
Dear Sohel Vai, you are advocating for a player with 22 average after playing 57 test matches!!!!
I think i have some respect to the national team. That's why i want to replace this guy with average of 22 by another player.

jeesh
September 3, 2012, 01:36 PM
Btw is the career of Rajin Saleh over? Still 28 years old. Averages over 35 in FC. Never took off in test match cricket, but has the right mentality for the longer version. Cant we give him a shot, perhaps working under Pybus will help. This is another sad thing abt BD cricket. Players have premature ends to their careers. Big difference in India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka. Thilan Samaraweera is still going strong at 36, so is Misbah Ul Haq. Dilshan's career took off in 2009, just 3 years ago at the age of 32.

Not just Saleh, wish there is a way to resurrect the careers of guys like Shahriar Nafees, Nafis Iqbal, Ashraful, Aftab Ahmed etc. So much of talent there, and all of these guys are at an age where they are supposed to be at their prime. Its a pity we have wasted such talent, or rather the players never built on their talent.

M.H.Rubel
September 3, 2012, 01:49 PM
I agree that you don't need to have "textbook" technique to be good in Test cricket but you need a decent technique at least. You see Dilshan and Sehwag doing well but they have such great hand eye coordination that they get away with poor footwork. Even then you see how they struggle outside of the subcontinent. I just don't see him having even close to that same hand eye coordination that could have him survive at this level and it has shown so far in his international career.

Suja Vai was basically comparing Ash and Nazimuddin. Ash is a proven failure in test cricket. On the other hand despite having poor technique still Nazimuddin has shown so far, he is better than Ash in test cricket. Temperament is more important than technique in test cricket.
You can not write Nazimuddin off so easily. His F C career is not bad. Most importantly his F C record with the A team is also not bad.Even his N C L career is better than Ash.

simon
September 3, 2012, 01:59 PM
So the talk of the thread is Nazimuddin.
Dont know how good or how bad he is but he just.played two test matches and he did pretty well.
So I believe it will be unfair to drop him,he should be given atleast two more test matches even if he fails..then we will talk.
<br />Posted via BC Mobile Edition (Android)

Tiger444
September 3, 2012, 02:13 PM
Suja Vai was basically comparing Ash and Nazimuddin. Ash is a proven failure in test cricket. On the other hand despite having poor technique still Nazimuddin has shown so far, he is better than Ash in test cricket. Temperament is more important than technique in test cricket.
You can not write Nazimuddin off so easily. His F C career is not bad. Most importantly his F C record with the A team is also not bad.Even his N C L career is better than Ash.

While temperament is very important in Test cricket, technique is far more important. If temperament was everything then Raqibul would be a good batsman but he hasn't at all because his technique isn't good. On the Dhaka wicket we saw the weakness of Nazim. Just a little bit of movement and he struggles to get in to position and play a shot.

Anyways I think we should try Anamul ahead of both Ash and Nazim because they aren't the answers and Anamul has a chance to become a star batsman for us. Might as well give it a shot.

M.H.Rubel
September 3, 2012, 02:18 PM
Btw is the career of Rajin Saleh over? Still 28 years old. Averages over 35 in FC. Never took off in test match cricket, but has the right mentality for the longer version. Cant we give him a shot, perhaps working under Pybus will help. This is another sad thing abt BD cricket. Players have premature ends to their careers. Big difference in India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka. Thilan Samaraweera is still going strong at 36, so is Misbah Ul Haq. Dilshan's career took off in 2009, just 3 years ago at the age of 32.

Not just Saleh, wish there is a way to resurrect the careers of guys like Shahriar Nafees, Nafis Iqbal, Ashraful, Aftab Ahmed etc. So much of talent there, and all of these guys are at an age where they are supposed to be at their prime. Its a pity we have wasted such talent, or rather the players never built on their talent.

I did not see Rajin playing anywhere recently. I liked this guy. He is a consistent performer in domestic F C. We are searching for 2/3 test batsman for long time. We tried Rock several times. To me Rajin was a better option than Rock. Probably getting too much bogged down is paying for Rajin

Really its a pity lots of Payers have premature end of their career. Most of our players come to National team prematurely without having proper testing through A team and this is the main cause behind premature end. This process is still going on.Recently Anamul played for national team. Was he tested properly? To me proper testing through the a team is a must.

M.H.Rubel
September 3, 2012, 02:27 PM
So the talk of the thread is Nazimuddin.
Dont know how good or how bad he is but he just.played two test matches and he did pretty well.
So I believe it will be unfair to drop him,he should be given atleast two more test matches even if he fails..then we will talk.
<br />Posted via BC Mobile Edition (Android)

That is the point. So far he has done reasonably well. He deserve another series.
After watching playing in one day, dropping from test is a poor idea.

Gowza
September 4, 2012, 03:42 AM
rajin saleh was alright many years ago, but when he was given another chance we saw that although he had the temperament he struggled to make any runs, the only way that sought of innings is useful is if an opener plays it but the team still needs runs so it's not the best option. did look like he'd be decent when he was younger but the same can be said for guys like aftab, alok and ash.

shams91
September 4, 2012, 04:16 AM
Test Squad Should Include: Rajin Saleh (36.35), Mohammed Nazimuddin (38.64), Jahurul Islam (35.34)

-- In bracket, First Class averages --

1. Tamim Iqbal
2. Mohammed Nazimuddin
3. Jahurul Islam
4. Rajin Saleh
5. Shakib Al Hasan
6. Mahmudullah Riad
7. Mushfiqur Rahim
8. Mashrafe Bin Mortaza
9. Rubel Hossain
10. Elias Sunny
11. Abdur Razzak

jeesh
September 4, 2012, 05:08 AM
rajin saleh was alright many years ago, but when he was given another chance we saw that although he had the temperament he struggled to make any runs, the only way that sought of innings is useful is if an opener plays it but the team still needs runs so it's not the best option. did look like he'd be decent when he was younger but the same can be said for guys like aftab, alok and ash.
I think you are referring to the match against the Kiwi's. He hung around for a while but couldnt score.
I forgot to mention Alok Kapali. At under 19 level Nafis Iqbal, Shahriar Nafees, Aftab Ahmed, Ashraful, Alok Kapali were all world class talent far ahead of many of their peers. What a waste.

Gowza
September 4, 2012, 05:43 AM
I think you are referring to the match against the Kiwi's. He hung around for a while but couldnt score.
I forgot to mention Alok Kapali. At under 19 level Nafis Iqbal, Shahriar Nafees, Aftab Ahmed, Ashraful, Alok Kapali were all world class talent far ahead of many of their peers. What a waste.

yes well when you consider that ash scored a test century at the age of 17 then he must be ahead of most if not all his age or in u19s. it boggles the mind that's he turned out as he has.

Tiger444
September 4, 2012, 07:17 AM
yes well when you consider that ash scored a test century at the age of 17 then he must be ahead of most if not all his age or in u19s. it boggles the mind that's he turned out as he has.

Not really if you think about it. He had an immense amount of pressure to perform at such a young age thanks to the poor level of talent surrounded by him. Before, if you had potential, then you could make the national team but now with the spaces limited, you see only the best of the youngsters getting chances. Our national team is in a much better state now.

M.H.Rubel
September 4, 2012, 07:39 AM
Last year BCB decided one good things.Most of the wicket had grass and quality of wicket have also improved. I hope this year they will continue the green top wicket. Quality of wicket remain good in early of the season so i hope every year domestic season will start with NCL. I hope we will get some good new generation batsman.

shuziburo
September 4, 2012, 08:18 AM
Not really if you think about it. He had an immense amount of pressure to perform at such a young age thanks to the poor level of talent surrounded by him. Before, if you had potential, then you could make the national team but now with the spaces limited, you see only the best of the youngsters getting chances. Our national team is in a much better state now.

That and he did not have the necessary maturity. Others have succeeded under pressure, but not everyone is equipped to do so.

Let's not make this another Ash thread, please!

M.H.Rubel
September 4, 2012, 11:37 AM
Suja Vai it will not become an ash thread that's for sure. Ash has lost his popularity.
Anyway Suja Vai apnar thread to super hit !!!"

Gowza
September 4, 2012, 09:20 PM
Not really if you think about it. He had an immense amount of pressure to perform at such a young age thanks to the poor level of talent surrounded by him. Before, if you had potential, then you could make the national team but now with the spaces limited, you see only the best of the youngsters getting chances. Our national team is in a much better state now.

even with all the pressures i'd expect someone that talented and capable of doing what he did at such a young age to make a comeback. you learn as you get older to let go of the past/negative things and focus on the positives, you learn from your mistakes and become better. something happened towards the end of whatmore and through the siddons era, don't know what it was but it completely broke ash mentally. also i've always wondered why ash got all the pressure on him? there was kapali and a little later aftab, talent wise all 3 of these players could have been developed in great players, the best of their generation (not just in BD but internationally to).

anyway we should focus on the future, batting stocks are actually looking up imo, shakib and tamim are doing well, mushy has developed all the skills and tools necessary and is working on his consistency, nasir has come out doing well from the start and is continuing, riyad is solid and we have anamul on the rise.

BengaliPagol
September 5, 2012, 03:57 AM
I have faith in Mominul, Anamul and Hom to really make a name for themselves in the national team.

Tiger444
September 5, 2012, 08:13 AM
Bottom line is that once we shore up our problems at the #2 and #3 spots, I think then we'll see better results once we find class batsmen at these spots.

simon
September 5, 2012, 09:15 AM
apart from consistency our players specially the experienced ones need to start converting fifties to 80 plus.
Difference between us & the better batting sides is not only consistency but also the in ability in scoring tons.

shuziburo
September 5, 2012, 11:37 AM
I think every batsman should be required to watch a few of Sunil Gavaskar's classic innings. With apologies to the great Tendulkar, Gavaskar is the best Indian batsman of all time. The man could hit, but had to play the role of an anchor most of his career because of the fragile Indian batting lineup. His century against NZ during the 1987 WC was a treat. He killed Chatfield who had an obscenely low economy. He did it all with a straight bat, something our boys cannot do.

shuziburo
September 5, 2012, 11:39 AM
apart from consistency our players specially the experienced ones need to start converting fifties to 80 plus.
Difference between us & the better batting sides is not only consistency but also the in ability in scoring tons.

They need to get fit and stop smoking. Most get tired after scoring 50. Some people are fresh ever after scoring a triple century, but I am not asking for that (yet).

simon
September 5, 2012, 12:26 PM
They need to get fit and stop smoking. Most get tired after scoring 50. Some people are fresh ever after scoring a triple century, but I am not asking for that (yet).

I dont think fitness is the common issue here, and not all our players smoke.
Its about the mentality, temparement.
We bdeshis are very hard workers/labours in hot humid conditions, it is more about targeting big which we usually dont do.
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M.H.Rubel
September 5, 2012, 01:13 PM
Our main problem is #2 and #3. During Siddons erea he used 3 opener to mitigate the vulnerable top order. It will be interesting what R P does. Probably he will use genuine batsman there other than opener and A team coach is preparing Mominul for the position.
#2 in test cricket is a big deal for us. Potential candidates are Junaid, Jahirul and Anamul.
I have a feeling that if any how we can manage a good partner of Tamim whole batting department will be changed.

Tiger444
September 5, 2012, 05:07 PM
apart from consistency our players specially the experienced ones need to start converting fifties to 80 plus.
Difference between us & the better batting sides is not only consistency but also the in ability in scoring tons.

Its time for Tamim, Shakib and Mushy to start converting especially. They've been around the longest and are our best batsmen. I want to see more centuries. Enough with the 50's for them. As for Riyad and Nasir they need to convert their 20's and 30's in to 50's but I'm expecting more from Riyad then Nasir since he's the more experienced player.

jeesh
September 5, 2012, 11:12 PM
I think 3 is a bigger problem than 2. Team management might want to slot in Shakib in 3 to mitigate this. But then we become weaker in the middle. Anamul could be a solution for 3, but too early to pull him to do the rescue job.

shuziburo
September 11, 2012, 12:36 AM
Run some camps and discover our own Kohli. Problem solved!

Gowza
September 11, 2012, 03:03 AM
Run some camps and discover our own Kohli. Problem solved!

We already have one, his name is anamul haque. But actually anamul is probably BDs best chance of a kohli.

Zeeshan
September 11, 2012, 03:39 AM
Run some camps and discover our own Kohli. Problem solved!

More like discover our own khuli..... :shh:

jeesh
September 11, 2012, 05:32 AM
Anyone know what to Rony Talukder and Marshall Ayub-these two were supposedly batting prodigies at youth level

Gowza
September 11, 2012, 07:00 AM
Anyone know what to Rony Talukder and Marshall Ayub-these two were supposedly batting prodigies at youth level

Rony I don't think has done much the last couple of seasons, Marshall gas made somewhat of a comeback to form though in the last DPL.

Rifat
September 11, 2012, 08:39 PM
The most serious issue of them all: Batting!

Shakib as a batsmen is not world class but good enough to play for Bangladesh(he plays dangerously and that's his playing style and can't argue with the way he plays) he needs more support around him. I have very little faith in Jahurul Islam, I am wondering how long he can survive; Nazimuddin plays some nice looking drives but apart from that he is very agricultural. Mahmudullah can survive in the team only he can deliver time and again with the bat. Mushfiqur Rahim will not bail you out every day, but Alhamdulillah, I am happy with his progress with the bat, but still he needs support too. Tamim, there is some hope with his batting ability as long as he is not complacent and puts the need of his team on his shoulders before anything else. Nasir Hossain, apart from his classy innings here and there, is still vulnerable to mistakes.

There is some glimmer of hope, some development no doubt, Alhamdulillah! However, the fact remains, we will not become world's number one team until we have at least three players who average over 40, let's see how many more classy batsmen we can produce that will solidify our lineup. our bowling, Alhamdulillah, is pretty much set, maybe just maybe we are a pacer short.(Rubel injured + Mortaza and Nazmul very injury prone) Shafiul is not world class(but he CAN be developed into one)


you need world class players to consistently beat top oppositions and not lose to some club teams, because we only have a couple of world class players + a few developing prodigies as oppose to the top 6 team(where about each team has around 6/7), this is why we still lose to Trinidad and Tobago and Netherlands + scotland. I guess we need a batting coach for each club in NCL to increase the likelihood of producing World class batsmen so it would be easier for us to find solutions to our often fragile batting lineup.

Gowza
September 11, 2012, 09:19 PM
The most serious issue of them all: Batting!

Shakib as a batsmen is not world class but good enough to play for Bangladesh(he plays dangerously and that's his playing style and can't argue with the way he plays) he needs more support around him. I have very little faith in Jahurul Islam, I am wondering how long he can survive; Nazimuddin plays some nice looking drives but apart from that he is very agricultural. Mahmudullah can survive in the team only he can deliver time and again with the bat. Mushfiqur Rahim will not bail you out every day, but Alhamdulillah, I am happy with his progress with the bat, but still he needs support too. Tamim, there is some hope with his batting ability as long as he is not complacent and puts the need of his team on his shoulders before anything else. Nasir Hossain, apart from his classy innings here and there, is still vulnerable to mistakes.

There is some glimmer of hope, some development no doubt, Alhamdulillah! However, the fact remains, we will not become world's number one team until we have at least three players who average over 40, let's see how many more classy batsmen we can produce that will solidify our lineup. our bowling, Alhamdulillah, is pretty much set, maybe just maybe we are a pacer short.(Rubel injured + Mortaza and Nazmul very injury prone) Shafiul is not world class(but he CAN be developed into one)


you need world class players to consistently beat top oppositions and not lose to some club teams, because we only have a couple of world class players + a few developing prodigies as oppose to the top 6 team(where about each team has around 6/7), this is why we still lose to Trinidad and Tobago and Netherlands + scotland. I guess we need a batting coach for each club in NCL to increase the likelihood of producing World class batsmen so it would be easier for us to find solutions to our often fragile batting lineup.

of course, coaches are a must for all NCL, DPL and BPL teams, same with age group teams, coaches are a must at every level.

M.H.Rubel
September 11, 2012, 09:32 PM
AnWhen yone know what to Rony Talukder and Marshall Ayub-these two were supposedly batting prodigies at youth level

When Roy was at academy i had some hope about him. But after watching him in P C L dubai i lost hope. He have issues with foot work. This is why he is weak in longer format.

M.H.Rubel
September 11, 2012, 09:41 PM
of course, coaches are a must for all NCL, DPL and BPL teams, same with age group teams, coaches are a must at every level.

This year N C L will be played on Franchise based so i hope we will see some good coaches. There will be combination of desi and foreign coaches. And as usual B P L will bring good coaches too.

BrianLara7
September 11, 2012, 10:14 PM
You can be a really good team with very good bowling and decent batting but never with a very good bowling and poor batting, for example take Pakistan. We need something like Sri lanka used to have, decent batting combined with good bowling (which we have to certain degree). We dont need to compete with SA, Ind batting but should be able to chase around 250 and score over 260 batting first regularly. Try the 96 Kalu Sanath type opening with Tamim and another good hitter. Be flexible with Shakib and Nasir and move them up if you have a good start. Dont need any mindless sloggers or tuk tuk batting in middle order, give mushy more time in middle order he is good at rotating strike, need more good runners who keep run rate ticking at 5 rpo in middle overs. Need a good pinch hitter at 7/8

jeesh
September 11, 2012, 10:51 PM
Trouble is T20 has changed the game so much, batsmen have become fearless, and bowlers timid. 10 years ago you could post 220-30 in a placid pitch and still defend. Now sometimes even 300 is not enough. Thats a huge disadvantage for a team like ours where we lack big innings players, or guys who can clear the fence with ease.