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shuziburo
September 3, 2012, 09:29 AM
There was a time, especially during the NZ whitewash, when it looked like our pace bowling finally turned a corner. But, it has regressed significantly in recent days. Mash is still our best pacer, but his past injuries make him unavailable in tests. Nazmul is our craftiest pacer, but it almost definitely looks like he will forever be the stepson.

Pace bowling is not only about speed. It also involves using clever variations in speed, line, length, bounce, etc. One area where our pacers clearly could improve is using the crease. Similar balls bowled from the edge of the crease and from close to the stamps look very different to the batsman. I wish that our bowlers read the CI article How Southee outsmarted India (http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/current/story/580436.html). Our batsmen don't have Southree's height, but they can learn to do the other little things.

shuziburo
September 3, 2012, 09:36 AM
I am pretty sure that I know what ATMR is going to say about our pace bowling.

jeesh
September 3, 2012, 10:29 AM
To be honest the weakest part of our cricket. In the last 10-12 years we have had absolutely nothing to write about except Mashrafe. Some of our existing bowlers like Rubel, Shafiul, Nazmul are decent, but nowhere close to what we require to be successful. The pipeline doesnt excite too much either. We can convince ourselves Abul Hasan is a real talent, and he can bowl at good pace. But the brutal truth is Abul Hasan would be just an average bowler in Sri Lanka or India. There are dozens of Abul Hasans in Sri Lanka who can bowl faster with greater skill.

Physical attributes are clearly not on our side. Most of our guys dont have the height, muscle, stamina. So the focus should be on skill, accuracy and clever bowling. We dont see too much of that either. Think Kulasekara or Praveen Kumar or Munaf Patel. These guys are not exactly quick but they are disciplined, skillful and they think and bowl. This training must be done at high performance academy, pace academy rather than depending on national team bowling coach solely.

Unless we act now and work with a long term plan we risk the possiblity of being left behind. Even Zimbabwe is developing good pacers. Afghanistan has a couple of pacers who bowl over 90mph. Lot of work to do!

zinatf
September 3, 2012, 10:32 AM
To be honest we need a genuine pace foundation.....or else a fast bowling coach for our Academy...otherwise the chances of seeing good pacers in the pipeline are little to null.

shams91
September 3, 2012, 10:36 AM
Step 1: Make a bowling friendly pitch that aides Pace Bowlers!

Step 2: If all the time we have batting pitch, then ofcourse we will say our pace bowlers suck.

shuziburo
September 3, 2012, 12:08 PM
Our pacers don't do too well on pace-friendly pitches, either. We need to reinvent our pace bowling strategy.

jeesh
September 3, 2012, 12:33 PM
Very well said. We often tend to think we ll get more reward if we play 3 seamers in Australia/South Africa/England. But truth is we are much better of playing spinners. Our pace bowlers really cannot extract anything out of pace friendly pitches either. Like you say we need to a take a fresh look at our bowling-how we find talent, nurture them, train them etc.

M.H.Rubel
September 3, 2012, 12:37 PM
Our pacers don't do too well on pace-friendly pitches, either. We need to reinvent our pace bowling strategy.

That is a very valid question Suja Vai. Our pacers are so poor that they can not utilize the seaming conditions.
We need to produce quality pace friendy wickets in F C matches. Last year in F C matches we had seamer friendly wickets, still pacers did not do well there.

Tiger444
September 3, 2012, 12:54 PM
Well we got Mash who thankfully is still bowling well despite having all those injuries he sustained over his career. What's really hurt us IMO has been the fact that Rasel has always been injury prone and not the same anymore and Shahadat being an absolute bust. With those 3, we could've had a settled and experienced pace attack. Instead we are still at a stage where we are still building a pace attack. The positive has been that Rubel has improved his bowling and is proving that he belongs at this level and Shafiul, while he disappoints more than Rubel, is also improving his bowling. I think in a few years we'll see Rubel and Shafiul being more dependable pacers. Abul is still very young and will need a few more years before he starts making an impact. Outside of the national team, we got Kamrul Islam Rabbi and Taskin Ahmed who look like real prospects. So we have the pieces now but it'll take time before they start firing.

jeesh
September 3, 2012, 01:24 PM
Rasel, Shahadat-both lack intelligence. Rasel could have easily become a useful limited over bowler-i thought he could play a Vaas like role for us. But its strange someone who bowls at 115-120 kph doesnt have any control. He also doesnt think or anticipate what the batsman will do. I wont even start about Shahadat.

Rubel is the only other decent prospect imo. Too bad the injury has thwarted his progress. Has the natural aggression and knack of picking wickets-love the way he sends stumps flying. Needs to strengthen his upper body and work on his pace a little. When he started he could bowl in excess of 140. He's more threatening that way. Nazmul is one of the more intelligent bowlers. Knows his limitations and tries to do his best within those. Shafiul will never succeed as long as he keeps thinking he is Brett Lee. Mashrafe, Nazmul, Rubel make a good bowling attack. Now the challenge is to get them fit and play together.

al Furqaan
September 3, 2012, 03:32 PM
Rasel when he was playing was actually a very crafty bowler, so disagree with you Jeesh. He totally outperformed Mashrafe in the 2007 world cup and the series immediately after that. He lost form at the beginning of 2008, and with his lack of pace that was deadly to his prospects.

Rubel, like most of our bowlers hasn't developed anything on his pace...then again most international bowlers don't. I'm not sure if his pace has dropped, but he has been quite decent in ODIs of late. He's bowled with far better than control before and than anyone else we have except maybe Mash.

Our Test bowling stocks are very poor, and I'd like to see what Abul Hasan, Taskin Ahmed, and some others can manage in the upcoming NCL season. Al Amin Hossain did very well last season as well and he's got pace around the 135-140 k mark.

Gowza
September 3, 2012, 06:52 PM
al amin, abu jayed, alauddin babu, taskin and abul we'll be watching.

Zeeshan
September 3, 2012, 07:01 PM
scks....

jeesh
September 3, 2012, 10:53 PM
MRF appointed McGrath as successor to Lillee. Now thats progress

Gowza
September 4, 2012, 02:54 AM
sajidul was a terrific prospect, should have been persisted with and should have got assistance through injuries. emon ahmed was meant to be good as well but developed into nothing. hopefully kamrul, abu, taskin, abul, babu and al amin develop well.

rasel was a good limited overs bowler but he was just never the same after his injury. shahadat was decent when he was younger but again he developed into nothing, simliar issue with india, whose pace bowlers often show promise but once in the national team they break apart.

Rifat
September 4, 2012, 05:32 AM
out of all the pacers, Shahadat Hossain still holds that record in tests for most 5 wicket hauls by any Bangladeshi pacemen, which clearly indicates our strength in that department in Tests, or maybe because We do not play tests that often also has to do with it.

The only few rare instances where we bundle out opposition for less than 400 is when we get pitches that offer something for spinners.

Rifat
September 4, 2012, 05:35 AM
To be honest the weakest part of our cricket. In the last 10-12 years we have had absolutely nothing to write about except Mashrafe. Some of our existing bowlers like Rubel, Shafiul, Nazmul are decent, but nowhere close to what we require to be successful. The pipeline doesnt excite too much either. We can convince ourselves Abul Hasan is a real talent, and he can bowl at good pace. But the brutal truth is Abul Hasan would be just an average bowler in Sri Lanka or India. There are dozens of Abul Hasans in Sri Lanka who can bowl faster with greater skill.

Physical attributes are clearly not on our side. Most of our guys dont have the height, muscle, stamina. So the focus should be on skill, accuracy and clever bowling. We dont see too much of that either. Think Kulasekara or Praveen Kumar or Munaf Patel. These guys are not exactly quick but they are disciplined, skillful and they think and bowl. This training must be done at high performance academy, pace academy rather than depending on national team bowling coach solely.

Unless we act now and work with a long term plan we risk the possiblity of being left behind. Even Zimbabwe is developing good pacers. Afghanistan has a couple of pacers who bowl over 90mph. Lot of work to do!


Jeesh,

I really enjoyed reading your articles/posts, as I learned a lot about cricket through reading them. please do not stop writing as They are very accurate, insightful and genuine :)

shuziburo
September 4, 2012, 07:19 AM
scks....

I wonder where this came from...

zinatf
September 4, 2012, 08:13 AM
I wonder where this came from...

:lol: ahh! What an observation :-p

BrianLara7
September 4, 2012, 09:46 AM
Our pace bowling is the most mediocre in the world without Mashrafe. Mashrafe is the only bowler who is even close to world class. There has never been a top team (top 6) without a half decent pace attack. Even India has couple of decent ones even though they are nowhere near being great (Zaheer, Praveen)

shuziburo
September 4, 2012, 10:55 AM
Our pace bowling is the most mediocre in the world without Mashrafe. Mashrafe is the only bowler who is even close to world class. There has never been a top team (top 6) without a half decent pace attack. Even India has couple of decent ones even though they are nowhere near being great (Zaheer, Praveen)

India has a world-class spin attack in the '60s and '70s (Bedi, Prasanna, Chandrashekhar, Venkatraghavan, Doshi). But, until Kapil Dev arrived, India was not a force to reckon with.

I had high hopes for Rubel, but who knows if he was another flash in the pan.

BrianLara7
September 4, 2012, 11:52 AM
India has a world-class spin attack in the '60s and '70s (Bedi, Prasanna, Chandrashekhar, Venkatraghavan, Doshi). But, until Kapil Dev arrived, India was not a force to reckon with.

I had high hopes for Rubel, but who knows if he was another flash in the pan.

You are right, and another reason Indians never succeeded outside subcontinent is their lack of bowlers specially fast bowlers. Even if one or two could bowl fast, they just weren't good enough. Likes of zaheer/ srinath had few good seasons but overall nowhere near great figures. Two best teams in cricket also unsurprisingly had arguably two best pace bowlers ever (Malcolm Marshall and Glenn Mcgrath) with support staff like Holding, Gillespie, Garner, Brett lee.

jeesh
September 4, 2012, 12:42 PM
Jeesh,

I really enjoyed reading your articles/posts, as I learned a lot about cricket through reading them. please do not stop writing as They are very accurate, insightful and genuine :)
Thank you so much for your kind feedback

jeesh
September 4, 2012, 12:45 PM
You are right, and another reason Indians never succeeded outside subcontinent is their lack of bowlers specially fast bowlers. Even if one or two could bowl fast, they just weren't good enough. Likes of zaheer/ srinath had few good seasons but overall nowhere near great figures. Two best teams in cricket also unsurprisingly had arguably two best pace bowlers ever (Malcolm Marshall and Glenn Mcgrath) with support staff like Holding, Gillespie, Garner, Brett lee.
Now it has changed. They started MRF Pace Academy in 1987 now its paying dividends. They are still no where close to Pakistan (Who effortlessly produce pace bowlers), but still have unearthed very un-Indian like fast bowlers in recent times.

Maysun
September 4, 2012, 02:06 PM
Honestly thought Rasel would be in the setup for a long time in the limited overs. Sad he faded away.

Maysun
September 4, 2012, 02:11 PM
I get that kids are/get inspired by Shakib and we have an overdose of SLA's. But aren't there kids in the accessible regions who are inspired to bowl really fast seeing that there is no jaw dropping potential in the pace department?

shams91
September 4, 2012, 03:18 PM
I get that kids are/get inspired by Shakib and we have an overdose of SLA's. But aren't there kids in the accessible regions who are inspired to bowl really fast seeing that there is no jaw dropping potential in the pace department?


Kids have been inspired by Mohammad Rafique, He started this slow left hand thing. Then came Shakib and has overtaken or become better SLA than most of the ones.
I think Shakib himself got inspired by Rafique.

Gowza
September 4, 2012, 07:00 PM
india are making strides with guys like ishant sharma, varun aaron and umesh yadav. they aren't great bowlers but they certainly have a lot of tools that if all put together properly can create a great and that's something that they've really had trouble with in the past.

Ajfar
September 4, 2012, 08:31 PM
india are making strides with guys like ishant sharma, varun aaron and umesh yadav. they aren't great bowlers but they certainly have a lot of tools that if all put together properly can create a great and that's something that they've really had trouble with in the past.

That's true but it certainly helps that they have a ridiculously awesome batting line up that can pretty much score everything you put in front of them. So even on days their bowlers have a bad day the batsman's can pick up the bowlers.

Gowza
September 4, 2012, 08:46 PM
That's true but it certainly helps that they have a ridiculously awesome batting line up that can pretty much score everything you put in front of them. So even on days their bowlers have a bad day the batsman's can pick up the bowlers.

yes well that no doubt helps bucket loads, india are always one of the strongest batting sides, and usually they have decent spinners, pacers they've always struggled with. but they're starting to develop pacers who have the tools and i think from here they'll keep producing more and more who have the tools so it's just a matter of time before they find some decent fast bowlers (even if it takes another 10 years). pakistan however are going through a bit of a drought atm when it comes to fast bowlers, although junaid khan looks like he might do well.

jeesh
September 4, 2012, 10:48 PM
Kids have been inspired by Mohammad Rafique, He started this slow left hand thing. Then came Shakib and has overtaken or become better SLA than most of the ones.
I think Shakib himself got inspired by Rafique.
Correct to some extent, but i think Rafique/Shakib's influence has only 20-30% impact in this SLA development process. I used to think too that maybe these guys are inspiring the rest of the SLA's. But if you think deeper you will see the real 60-70% comes from the nature of our wickets. The rest i would say comes from lack of training, sth which a specialized coach like Saqlain can help in.

See our wickets dont offer a lot of turn-at least like you get in India. There isnt much bounce-rather the bounce becomes more uneven as the game goes on. Most of the time the ball doesnt come on to the batsman, the wickets very slow. Majority of our batsmen are right handed, and most of these guys are bottom handed players. Which means they like to play across the line, or they like to slog as they dont have enough power in their upper or left arm. Given these two factors its easy to be an SLA who can bowl over the wicket, keep it tight, flight a few then put in an arm ball or two. Result: Wickets. Either caught in front lbw, or bowled, or caught by short fielders or caught in the outfield from a mis hit.

An SLA is more likely to have success than an OS or LS in junior cricket. They develop confidence and decide this is what they want to do. Now we will get the same benefit with pacers if develop hard bouncy pitches. If a bowler can easily get bounce and carry without having to put extra effort they too will be able to pick up wickets and gain confidence. So wicket plays a key role

jeesh
September 4, 2012, 11:05 PM
Honestly thought Rasel would be in the setup for a long time in the limited overs. Sad he faded away.
So did i. Thought he could be our Vaas. Similar style. He just has no control. Sprays the ball all over. Not acceptable for someone who bowls at such little pace

BengaliPagol
September 5, 2012, 03:24 AM
yes well that no doubt helps bucket loads, india are always one of the strongest batting sides.

India's batsmen struggle in seaming conditions. Australia and England found them out real badly. Sehwag's poor footwork was on show, Dravid struggled to pick out the pace bowlers in Australia and he got bowled on numerous occations, Gambhir did alright but not as well as he would have hoped to, Laxman struggled to handle pace as well. Kohli and Tendulkar are the only players that went well in seaming conditions. Dhoni isnt a test batsmen in my eyes.

India arent as good in batting as they seem to be. They have the most capable batsmen in world cricket but it depends where they are playing.

Gowza
September 5, 2012, 04:34 AM
India's batsmen struggle in seaming conditions. Australia and England found them out real badly. Sehwag's poor footwork was on show, Dravid struggled to pick out the pace bowlers in Australia and he got bowled on numerous occations, Gambhir did alright but not as well as he would have hoped to, Laxman struggled to handle pace as well. Kohli and Tendulkar are the only players that went well in seaming conditions. Dhoni isnt a test batsmen in my eyes.

India arent as good in batting as they seem to be. They have the most capable batsmen in world cricket but it depends where they are playing.

well they'd be top 4 on batting strength. SA are up there, so are england, then usually australia although atm it's debatable, then it would be between india and pakistan. ok so they aren't THE strongest but they're still always pretty strong in batting, yes they can struggle in seaming conditions but tbh almost every team does.

BengaliPagol
September 5, 2012, 06:10 AM
well they'd be top 4 on batting strength. SA are up there, so are england, then usually australia although atm it's debatable, then it would be between india and pakistan. ok so they aren't THE strongest but they're still always pretty strong in batting, yes they can struggle in seaming conditions but tbh almost every team does.

Australia, England and South Africa are the best teams in seaming conditions.

Gowza
September 5, 2012, 10:25 AM
Australia, England and South Africa are the best teams in seaming conditions.

basically what i said....except atm australia isn't so strong, but usually they're up there. besides teams don't only bat in seaming conditions so that's not all you should base a teams batting strength on, no doubt they're the toughest conditions though.

shuziburo
September 5, 2012, 11:45 AM
India's batting was perhaps worse than ours. Most of you did not follow cricket then. They used to have trouble scoring 250 and the batting used to be Gavaskar, Pataudi, and Viswanath. It used to be really bad before then.
We can improve as well (in batting and pace bowling), but it will take planning and effort. I am waiting for visionary leadership.

yes well that no doubt helps bucket loads, india are always one of the strongest batting sides, and usually they have decent spinners, pacers they've always struggled with. but they're starting to develop pacers who have the tools and i think from here they'll keep producing more and more who have the tools so it's just a matter of time before they find some decent fast bowlers (even if it takes another 10 years). pakistan however are going through a bit of a drought atm when it comes to fast bowlers, although junaid khan looks like he might do well.

Yasin.
September 5, 2012, 12:37 PM
Shafiul isnt all that bad to be honest. He needs to focus on being accurate since he isnt the fastest out there. For some reason I think he does okay in death overs too. Wasnt it in England that he picked the last wicekt and we won the match? Rubel will be our wild card and Mash is Mash.

jeesh
September 5, 2012, 11:07 PM
No team is strong in all conditions. Aussie, SA, England might be good in their own wickets but put them anywhere in Asia or even West Indies they might not do so well.

Regarding Shafiul he has had a good start. But like many other Bangladeshi players his performances have hit a snag. He is very young, only 22 and has over 50 ODI wickets with 4 wicket hauls. Very capable, just needs to figure out his game plan. Often guilty of trying to bowl too quick or overdoing things.

Tiger444
September 6, 2012, 07:47 PM
No team is strong in all conditions. Aussie, SA, England might be good in their own wickets but put them anywhere in Asia or even West Indies they might not do so well.

Regarding Shafiul he has had a good start. But like many other Bangladeshi players his performances have hit a snag. He is very young, only 22 and has over 50 ODI wickets with 4 wicket hauls. Very capable, just needs to figure out his game plan. Often guilty of trying to bowl too quick or overdoing things.

He hasn't been as consistent as Rubel but he's been decent. He's won us a few matches so we know the guy can bowl but yes as you said he shouldn't overdo anything. He's still a developing bowler and needs a few more years still but he's going in he right direction.

Gowza
September 6, 2012, 09:38 PM
i hope kamrul the lefty gets a few chances, especially in tests but would be worth to see him in one-dayers to.

shuziburo
September 10, 2012, 03:08 AM
I hope Rubel comes back strong and motivated and works with Mash. Mash would make a great unofficial bowling coach. Our bowlers need to practice a lot. McGrath-type practice to bowl on a dime would be a good start.

jeesh
September 10, 2012, 03:36 AM
I dont think we have players who would be willing to do so shuziburo. I read Mashrafe went straight back to the nets after Asia Cup, while others decided to take a break. Will others be willing to do the same? One of Shakib's biggest criticisms is the fact that he doesnt work hard enough in training. Shakib says he prefers to perform in the pitch, but its no excuse really.

shuziburo
September 10, 2012, 08:49 PM
I dont think we have players who would be willing to do so shuziburo. I read Mashrafe went straight back to the nets after Asia Cup, while others decided to take a break. Will others be willing to do the same? One of Shakib's biggest criticisms is the fact that he doesnt work hard enough in training. Shakib says he prefers to perform in the pitch, but its no excuse really.

Most all-time greats train hard. Throughout the year. Talent helps; but, there really is no shortcut to success. Oh, well!

Tendulkar_Mcgrath
September 10, 2012, 09:48 PM
I don't see any hope! Because 1. there is no pace pitch in Bangladesh which favours fast bowling. 2. Somehow our pace bowlers don't use their intelligence or smartness to make batsman fool or to anticipate batsman action......

jeesh
September 10, 2012, 10:36 PM
This is sth i mentioned in the FP article Tendulkar_Mcgrath. In the SL fast bowling academy, the coaches acknowledge the fact their bowlers will often have to ball in flat docile wickets. So they do a lot of training on the mental side of the game-how to read the batsman, accuracy etc. This is why someone like Kulasekara and Mathews can pick wickets despite their lack of pace or bounce.

Its not that we cant do the same. We can too. Asia Cup was a clear example. Barring Shahadat everyone was bowling to a plan and with a lot of accuracy. It was clear that Jurgensen had spent some quality time with the quicks and got them working to a plan. We need to give Jurgensen dedicated time with our pace bowlers. Not in 2-3 week camp. Long term camp with focus on skill, fitness etc. Results will come.