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jeesh
October 15, 2012, 08:35 AM
The objective of the thread is same as that of the pace pipeline thread. To discuss the progress of spinners apart from Shakib, Razzak and Elias Sunny Sunny in Under 19, club cricket, divisional cricket, BPL, A Team etc.

Fortunately Bangladesh is blessed with a good spin pipeline. It can be also unfortunate because sometimes talented spinners are overlooked despite their strong showings in domestic cricket. Currently many countries are finding it hard to unearth quality spinners. Australia for instance had to resort to a 42 year Hogg because the likes of Michael Beer, Doherty are simply not good enough. Its debatable but i bet countries like Australia, South Africa, England, Zimbabwe wouldnt mind having some of our emerging or fringe spinners. Bangladesh in comparison can produce SLA's effortlessly.

But are these spinners good enough? Many would argue they are not, and they would struggle against quality batsmen, and in less spin oriented pitches. This could be true. But if you remember the performance of our spinners in BPL, you will probably agree the talent and potential is there. The likes of Elias Sunny, Arafat Sunny, Saqlain Sajib performed admirably against some of the best T20 batsmen in the world. The next BPL will give these spinners another chance to prove themselves.

BCB also made a smart move by appointing Saqlain Mushtaq. But this appointment will not bear any fruit until Saqlain is allowed to work with 10-12 of our emerging A Team, Under 19 spinners for 2-3 months.

It is also important BCB tries to nurture spinners other than SLA's to improve variety in our attack. Unfortunately there arent many OS or LS candidates.

Tiger444
October 15, 2012, 08:49 AM
Well there is no doubt that our SLA's are quality. Shakib and Razzak are top 10 bowlers in both T20I's and ODI's. Then you have Elias who was the highest wicket taker in the BPL and has done really well so far in the national team. Then our backups, Enamul, Saqlain, and Arafat are all very good as well.

The problem still lies in the variety in our spin attack. We only have Sohag Gazi as a specialist offie and Nur Hossain as a specialist leggie. We need a lot more variety in our spin department because it's already proven that we can produce good spinners. So why not have more variety so we could be more potent in our attack? Because let's be realistic, we'll never really have a superior pace attack. So we should focus on having variety in our spin.

jeesh
October 15, 2012, 08:49 AM
Top 5 spinners in last 5 NCL

2011/12

Enamul Jnr- 59
Arafat Sunny- 50
Saqlain Sajib- 50
Abdur Razzak- 38
Murad Khan- 35

Best Non SLA. Farhad Hossain, OS- 29

2010/2011

Sohag Gazi- 41
Mosharraf Hossain- 34
Shaker Ahmed- 30
Saqlain Sajib- 29
Elias Sunny- 24

2009/10

Saqlain Sajib- 54
Elias Sunny- 42
Suhrawadi Shuvo- 24
Murad Khan- 17
Faisal Hossain- 16

Best Non SLA. Sohag Gazi, OS- 15

2008/2009

Suhrawadi Shuvo- 59
Nabil Samad- 41
Arafat Sunny- 40
Elias Sunny- 37
Farhad Hossain- 19

2007/08

Mosharraf Hossain- 44
Murad Khan- 39
Enamul Haque jnr- 32
Saqlain Sajib- 31
Saju Datta- 30

Best non SLA. Yasin Arafat, OS- 29

AsifTheManRahman
October 15, 2012, 09:02 AM
Spin pipeline = SLAs, way too many.

Even in the NT, we need more venom: attack, don't just contain. Guys like Shakib and Elias have shown they are capable. Enam has developed and is probably able to strike in all versions. Could probably look at Gazi for variation, but please no more SLAs. We have enough - even Razzak mamu gets the job done in the shorter versions.

jeesh
October 15, 2012, 09:10 AM
NT Vs Pipeline Spinners

Shakib has 192 FC wickets at an average of 29. Razzak has 197 FC wickets at an average of 30. Elias Sunny has 224 FC wickets at an average of 25.

Arafat Sunny has 209 FC wickets at an average of 22. Saqlain Sajib has 170 wickets at an average of 20. Enamul Jnr is one of the highest wicket takers in FC cricket with 306 victims at an average of 28. Veteran spinner Mosharraf Hossain has 203 FC wickets at an average of 25. Shuvo has 186 FC wickets at an average of 20. Nabil Samad has 219 FC victims at an average of 26.

OS candidates

Sohag Gazi has 76 wickets at an average of 22. All rounder Farhad Hossain is a more potent spinner than frontline all rounders like Riyad, Naeem, Nasir, Kapali. He has 112 FC wicket at an average of 22 (Off topic, Farhad Hossain is also a useful batsman with a healthy average of 35 with the highest score of 216). Yasin Arafat is the only other consistent off spinner with 161 wickets and an average of 28. Highly unlikely he will break into national team though

LS candidates

Kapali is the only leg spinner with over 100 first class wickets. We all know Noor Hossain has talent, but he is very raw. So far he has only 30 wickets in the 10 FC matches he has played at an average of 37.

Clearly the SLA's dominate. Saqlain Sajib and Enamul are the best two pipeline spinners for the longer version, while Arafat Sunny is a better option for the shorter versions. Likes of Shuvo, Nabil Samad have to prove more. The best non SLA option we have now is Sohag Gazi. Hope he has a terrific NCL.

mufi_02
October 15, 2012, 09:19 AM
Nice work Jeesh bhai. I am tired of SLAs as well. Slightly off topic, what is the cause of our endless supply of SLAs? Is it because of early success of Moni and Rafiq?

On topic, I think Sohag Gazi, Yasin Arafat, Noor Hossain should be groomed more. Get more offies/leggies and send them to a camp with Saqlain for a month. There are talents out there and we just need to find them. We might have few Dananjayas somewhere. This guy was bowling in nets few months ago. Fast forward and he bowled in WC T20 final.

Gowza
October 15, 2012, 09:53 AM
need to develop guys like sohag gazi, had no idea farhad hossain had such a good bowling record i mean 112 FC scalps at an average of 21, econ under 3 and a ridiculous strike rate of 45!

jeesh
October 15, 2012, 09:59 AM
Thanks for the feedback. My 2 theories (Sorry for repeating for those who have read it before)

1) Inspiration: Rafique was an iconic player, now Shakib is the poster boy and icon-not just in Bangladesh, respected around the world. Razzak has had terrific success in the shorter formats. Success breeds success. Imo inspiration is 20% of the reason we produce so many SLA's

2) Nature of wickets and type of batsmen: Our wickets are known for low bounce, where the ball doesnt come on to the bat. Also most of our batsmen are right handed, and their dominant hand is right. Which means their bottom hand is stronger. Naturally these guys love to play on the leg side, across the line. Now combine the two factors. Result: plenty of wickets via LBW's, getting cleaned up etc. You are more likely to succeed as an SLA in BD wickets, than an off spinner or a leg spinner. You dont need much variation, just the ability to bowl straight, over the wicket with an angle. The odd ball should turn, while one should throw in a few arm balls. Wickets, wickets, wickets.

Would love to see a Bangladeshi Akila Dananajaya. What a story that is. But i doubt that will happen, because our selectors are averse to risk taking. They will play Razzak match after match even if he flops day and night, saying he has experience. Also our age group coaches are very traditional minded-they go by the book. I highly doubt they will encourage anything unorthodox, which is why you wont see a Mendis or a Narine coming out of Bangladesh.

Tiger444
October 15, 2012, 10:44 AM
Great point there Jeesh and it's very true. Rafique obviously had an influence but also it's mainly the nature of wickets that we play on. Diversity of pitches are key here. We can't just have pitches that help the SLA's. We need pitches that help ALL spinners, pacers, and batsmen. The more diversity we have in our pitches, the more diversity we'll have in our bowling attack. A small idea here for the selectors that can help in a big way is to have Gazi in the next team. If he can get that chance ahead of the likes of Saqlain and Arafat, it might make a difference. Gazi will also have to make a difference. If he can become a star, who knows, younger kids might want to become an offspinner rather than an SLA. Nur should be in consideration in a few years as well. If these 2 become class players then it could really help with this problem.

jeesh
October 16, 2012, 05:18 AM
Enamul's 59 wickets last season marks his comeback after a few disappointing years. He bowled very well against West Indies High Performance as well. This is good news for Bangladeshi cricket. Technical ability wise, Enamul is the best spinner in the country. The difference between him and Shakib is probably mental attributes. Shakib has the mind of a champion, he is brave, positive and determined. Skill wise Enamul is better-can turn the ball a great deal, has a good arm ball, flights the ball well, and can bamboozle batsmen with point of delivery. Enamul is also one of those bowlers who take apart a batting lineup. He has over 300 FC wickets, at an average of 28 with 21 five wicket/innings haul and 4 ten wickets/match haul.

Hopefully, Enamul will be part of Bangladesh's test squad in the West Indies series. It will be interesting to see how he also does in NCL.

kalpurush
October 16, 2012, 06:05 AM
Fantastic work Jeesh - great nanlysis and observations. :up:


I think we should have a new set of selectors who has vision and eyes to see it.

Enamul Jr. is must for the Tests. And don't want to see Razzak in the Test squad.
Sunny and Enamul could do wonders against WI.

jeesh
October 16, 2012, 10:50 AM
Thanks Kalpurush.

Continuing the discussion on spinners, the next one is one of the more unfortunate cases. Rather he dug up his own grave. Now the big question is can he do anything to drag himself out of the grave. I am talking abt Mosharraf Hossain-who at the peak of his career decided to ditch the national team to play in ICL.

Nevertheless he has been one of the most consistent spinners in domestic cricket over the years. Was tipped to take over the role of Rafique by the great man himself. See links below. In ways he is very similar to Rafique. Relies heavily on accuracy and flight. Unlike Razzak he will rarely give you a loose ball. This is why he has a good economy rate in T20, ODI's and FC. Picks up wickets too, has 203 FC wickets at an average of 25 with best of 9/105 which is probably the best bowling performance by a Bangladeshi in FC cricket.

http://www.thedailystar.net/newDesign/news-details.php?nid=18297
http://www.banglacricket.com/alochona/showthread.php?t=25066

Can he make it into the BD team, will he get a second chance? At the age of 30, i highly doubt it. But if we ever need a mature experienced spinner Mosharraf should be the one. A good BPL and FC season can change his fortunes. One must keep in mind Mohammad Rafique may have been in the team for a long time, but in terms of quality bowling he peaked very late.

AsifTheManRahman
October 16, 2012, 11:32 AM
Mosharraf doesn't have anything more to offer than our front line SLAs. He's great at containing and will make batsmen from outside the subcontinent struggle regularly on our dust bowls in the shorter formats, but he might just have chosen the wrong trade at the wrong time in the wrong place. He was in contention before the ICL, though, so that might just have killed his chances with the NT.

I think Rafique had named him as his replacement when he had just retired, but circumstances haven't been in his favor. He is still a very good bowler.

jeesh
October 16, 2012, 12:21 PM
Agree. Chances are he wont make back into the national fold even with good performances in domestic cricket. Enamul, Saqlain, and Arafat are ahead as far as SLA's are concerned.

mufi_02
October 16, 2012, 01:12 PM
Yes, Mosharraf Rubel's days are over. He was right up there before Sunny, Shuvo, Saqlain became prominent.

How about we get Rafique to work as spin coach/mentor at development level? His job will be to identify talent and develop them. The succesful ones will be sent to Saqlain Mushtaq and that batch will train under him for at least one year. The succesful ones from there will go to McInnes and the best ones from there will reach the National team.

jeesh
October 17, 2012, 09:47 AM
That would be very useful. Having Rafique mentor young spinners-he used to do that even while playing, i bet Shakib and Razzak will bear testimony to that. I read BCB wants to have batting, pace bowling, spin bowling and fielding coaches at academy working with RM. Good opportunity to involve guys like Rafique working under RM.

Btw one area where i hope our SLA's work on is their variation. Most of our SLA's are content just bowling the orthodox delivery. They will probably vary the flight, length, line. Their stock delivery will be the arm ball. This works ok in ODI's, test match cricket. But to do well in T20's and to be more effective in ODI's they need to have a bit more. Rangana Herath (Who imo is one of the best SLA's in the world atm) for example is probably the only SLA who can bowl the doosra (One that spins towards the right hander) at will. Herath also has an effective carrom ball. He combines these deliveries with his orthodox spin, variation in flight, arm ball. Very effective and hard to pick.

Tiger Manc
October 17, 2012, 05:26 PM
I don't understand why Sohag Gazi didn't play any matches against the Windies High Performance team recently. I thought a good performance might propel him into the squad against Windies NT. He did well against the Saffers academy team in their own backyard. We need variety in our spin attack, it might work against Zimbabwe having 3 slas, but against the Watsons, Gayles and McCullums it becomes one dimensional. I see him as one for the future and I hope he's spent time with Saqlain Mushtaq working on variations.

jeesh
October 18, 2012, 12:01 AM
Thats because our selectors dont think Tiger Manc. Too conservative. Dont be surprised to see Razzak in the test XI.

Sohel
October 18, 2012, 12:56 AM
Both Nazimuddin and DaRok are decent spinners.

jeesh
October 20, 2012, 10:46 AM
Good to see Saqlain Sajib making noise from day 1. A lot of the media and us the fans attention is on the Sunny's, Enamul, Shakib etc. But quietly Sajib has gotten 176 FC wickets from 36 matches. Could be one of our few bowlers who could average below 20 in FC with the ball.

Wish him a speedy recovery.

jeesh
October 22, 2012, 10:40 PM
Sohag Gazi's 7 for 79. We might have an OS finally. Got a century too!

jeesh
October 23, 2012, 11:14 AM
Unfortunately Sohan Gazi and Enamul Jnr may have to wait. Razzak match winning haul of 6/72 might be enough to convince selectors to consider him for the WI tests. Talk abt a timely performance. Personally i am not a fan of Razzak in longer format. But this performance will make it harder for selectors to say no

Tiger444
October 23, 2012, 11:37 AM
^hopefully they realize that Razzak's bowling is not suited for the longer format. They did drop him last year for the WI and Pak tour. We'll see what happens but I really hope they don't pick Razzak and rather pick Enamul Jr. And Sohag
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mij
October 23, 2012, 01:50 PM
^hopefully they realize that Razzak's bowling is not suited for the longer format. They did drop him last year for the WI and Pak tour. We'll see what happens but I really hope they don't pick Razzak and rather pick Enamul Jr. And Sohag
<br />Posted via BC Mobile Edition (Blackberry)

:up::up::up:

BANFAN
October 23, 2012, 02:05 PM
Unfortunately Sohan Gazi and Enamul Jnr may have to wait. Razzak match winning haul of 6/72 might be enough to convince selectors to consider him for the WI tests. Talk abt a timely performance. Personally i am not a fan of Razzak in longer format. But this performance will make it harder for selectors to say no

Both Shohag Gazi and Enamul both should be in the team, specially when Saklain is there as the coach...this series at home should be loaded with spinners.

Shohag brings in some batting also...

jeesh
October 23, 2012, 11:35 PM
Very true. Gazi adds variety, and some depth in the batting. And we all know he is a long term prospect for the NT. So might as well start grooming him now, especially when the legend Saqlain Mushtaq is mentoring the spinners. Also Windies have a few left handers, so it doesnt hurt having off spinners.

But you know our selectors right. They are very conservative and will hesitate to make changes.

Nadim
November 2, 2012, 05:06 PM
Endless pipe but quality wise "cough""cough"
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jeesh
November 7, 2012, 01:39 AM
Razzak in outstanding form in NCL so far. But good decision by selectors in not picking him. He cannot take his position for granted.

jeesh
November 13, 2012, 09:17 AM
So selectors have a dilemma. Clearly Shakib and Gazi are not enough. Theres sth wrong with Shakib-fatigue, injury, or he has to work on his bowling. Gazi alone is not enough to trouble the Windies. So we either sacrifice a pace bowler, which wont happen. So the next best alternative is drop an all rounder. Thats not the hard part. Who to pick as the 3rd spinner. Sunny is automatic choice. But Razzak has been in the form of his life in FC cricket. Enamul too is likely to offer more than what Shakib did.

So lot to think abt for selectors and management

Gowza
November 13, 2012, 06:55 PM
Keep two pacers drop a batsman and bring in sunny.

Jadukor
November 13, 2012, 10:04 PM
Keep two pacers drop a batsman and bring in sunny.
I agree with you however lets see how we bat first before thinking about dropping batsman.
I think the ideal way to go would be to drop one pacer and one batsman and pick two more spinners. That would enable us to throw everything we got (in terms of bowling) at the west indies. Play Gazi, Sunny, Enamul and Nazmul as the four specialist bowlers plus shakib. If we still can't manage 20 wkts then there is really no hope for us.

Sohel
November 13, 2012, 10:09 PM
According to several successful NCL batters over the past few seasons including this one, Enam is the most threatening spinner out there. They also rate Shojib, Shohag and Munna highly.

jeesh
November 14, 2012, 10:04 AM
Whats wrong with your bowling? It looks like we are back in the early 2000's where we cant bowl out opposition.

Matribhasha
November 14, 2012, 10:21 AM
I'm a BIG fan of Razzak. But in a test, he is a NO NO. Keep it simple -just bring in Sunny.

If we don't get them out still...the only question then is, how did we choose this lineup then, for T1 ? We just have no understanding of our assets.

Matribhasha
November 14, 2012, 10:22 AM
We have degenerated in bowling only for 2 reasons -

No Mashrafee
Shahadat can no longer take 5-fers. He barely gets one wic now.

jeesh
November 15, 2012, 10:16 AM
But Razzak has been devastating in FC this season. Best bowler by miles. 28 wickets at an average of 14. Almost 10 wickets more than the next leading wicket taker. Anyone know how? Bowling very well? Good form?

Tiger Manc
November 18, 2012, 12:18 PM
Looking forward to the day we see Shakib, Sunny and Gazi all bowl together on a spin friendly pitch.

Equinox
November 18, 2012, 12:46 PM
Sunny is decent but according to me Saqlain Shajib has the potential to be the best SLA in the country after Shakib. He has the height which he uses very well to generate bounce when he's bowling. I was very impressed watching him in the BPL. He has 186 FC wickets at an average of 19 and he hasn't even been called up to the A team regularly. No offense to ES but I'd even rate the other Sunny (Arafat) as a more potent limited-overs bowler.

jeesh
November 18, 2012, 11:40 PM
Again another 7 wickets for Razzak. Enamul also picked up a 7 wicket hall. At the rate these two are going they will create first class records this season. Gazi did an excellent job. Shakib clearly needs more time to get into form. Wonder what could have been the impact of having Razzak or Enamul as the third spinner.

Gowza
November 19, 2012, 06:42 AM
razzak and enaml are going nuts in NCL this season, problem is when they where given chances in test matches they didn't perform so well and now we have some pretty solid spinners in the test match line-up with shakib, sunny and sohag so despite enamul and razzak doing well in domestics i don't think it's fair to drop any of shakib, sunny and sohag at this point given that they have performed well in their test match chances so far (which enamul and razzak failed to do) and that they also perform very well domestically. although razzak's form is pretty unbelievable with a 7fer and 3fer this match, a 9fer and a 4fer last match, a 5fer and a 4fer the match before that and then a 6fer in the match before that (round 1). but then enamul also has a 7fer, two 6fers and two 5fers.

jeesh
November 19, 2012, 10:16 AM
Gowza maybe Razzak has worked on his bowling. Maybe the fact he was selected for the series has motivated him to perform. Not to mention the competition from the younger spinners. We will keep both Shakib and Gazi. Big question is whether we should have a third spinner. For that we have to either drop a pacer (Which wont happen, although pacers really doing bring in much value). Or we drop a batsman. Personally i feel Bangladesh will be a stronger team with an extra spinner. Until Shakib finds his form

AsifTheManRahman
November 19, 2012, 11:37 AM
Gowza maybe Razzak has worked on his bowling. Maybe the fact he was selected for the series has motivated him to perform. Not to mention the competition from the younger spinners.
The selectors need to go watch NCL matches to be able to make that call. Unfortunately, Akram chacha is too busy ordering KFC at home.

BengalT
November 19, 2012, 12:17 PM
Both Razzak & Enamul should be selected in National Team (ODI), Drop Elias Sunny For ODI.

jeesh
November 19, 2012, 11:47 PM
The selectors need to go watch NCL matches to be able to make that call. Unfortunately, Akram chacha is too busy ordering KFC at home.
Lol @ asif. Going off topic, once i saw the guy eat 22 bananas at Abahani ground during practice. Seemed like appetizer for him

MyRoom
November 20, 2012, 10:26 AM
Spin bowling is fine, its our pace pipeline we should be all concerned about. Shakib, Sunny and Gazi plus the part timers on a spinning track will devastate the opposition.

AsifTheManRahman
November 20, 2012, 12:45 PM
Lol @ asif. Going off topic, once i saw the guy eat 22 bananas at Abahani ground during practice. Seemed like appetizer for him
Shortly after the ICC trophy win, a reporter spotted Akram devouring fried chicken pieces as if they were candy at a reception for the teams participating in the upcoming Asia Cup tournament. Concerned about his health, she walked up to him and told him he shouldn't eat so much, to which Akram's reply was something along the lines of, "Oh we're very confident about doing well in the Asia Cup".

It was in the newspapers, so not my words.

jeesh
November 20, 2012, 01:15 PM
Hehe funny character. I remember i once went to get his autograph. He wrote "Good. Akram Khan." I always wondered why he deviated from best wishes, complements from and wrote just good :P. But he could really clear the fence when he wanted. Used to do well in the tournaments BCB organized inviting India A, Pakistan A and Sri Lanka A.

Mav
November 25, 2012, 01:08 AM
Looks like a promising find for Bangladesh, well referred by Saqlain Mustaq.
12 wickets in this test.

<table class="engineTable"><caption>Most wickets</caption> <thead> <tr class="head"> <th title="player name" class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Player</th> <th title="matches played" class="padAst" nowrap="nowrap">Mat</th> <th title="innings bowled" nowrap="nowrap">Inns</th> <th title="overs bowled" nowrap="nowrap">Overs</th> <th title="maidens earned" nowrap="nowrap">Mdns</th> <th title="runs conceded" nowrap="nowrap">Runs</th> <th title="wickets taken" nowrap="nowrap">Wkts</th> <th title="best innings bowling" nowrap="nowrap">BBI</th> <th title="best match bowling" nowrap="nowrap">BBM</th> <th title="bowling average" nowrap="nowrap">Ave</th> <th title="economy rate" nowrap="nowrap">Econ</th> <th title="bowling strike rate" nowrap="nowrap">SR</th> <th title="five wkts in an inns" nowrap="nowrap">5</th> <th title="ten wkts in a match" nowrap="nowrap">10</th> </tr> </thead> <tbody> <tr class="data1"> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">TL Best (http://stats.espncricinfo.com/bangladesh-v-west-indies-2012/content/player/51436.html) (WI)</td> <td class="padAst" nowrap="nowrap">2</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">4</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">57.4</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">9</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">172</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">12</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">6/40</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">6/71</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">14.33</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">2.98</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">28.8</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">2</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">0</td> </tr> <tr class="data1"> <td class="left" nowrap="nowrap">Sohag Gazi (http://stats.espncricinfo.com/bangladesh-v-west-indies-2012/content/player/444135.html) (Ban)</td> <td class="padAst" nowrap="nowrap">2</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">4</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">128.5</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">13</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">394</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">12</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">6/74</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">9/219</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">32.83</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">3.05</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">64.4</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">1</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">0</td></tr></tbody></table>

MyRoom
November 25, 2012, 10:46 AM
We need to make sure that Noor Hossain is nurtured well because a quality leg spinner will make sure that our spin attack is dangerous.

deshimon
November 25, 2012, 11:48 AM
We need to make sure that Noor Hossain is nurtured well because a quality leg spinner will make sure that our spin attack is dangerous.

In current NCL I never see his name anywhere. Is he playing NCL?

WarWolf
November 25, 2012, 11:54 AM
In current NCL I never see his name anywhere. Is he playing NCL?
Yes and he is getting 1/2 wickets regularly.

Nadim
November 25, 2012, 12:00 PM
Noor lost his mojo a bit:(. But i'm still hopeful. he is yet to be 20 so the HOPE is still there.


LS is an ART so it takes a bit of time unless you are Shane Warne

MyRoom
November 25, 2012, 03:30 PM
In current NCL I never see his name anywhere. Is he playing NCL?

He's played a few games in NCL this season! I first saw him in England playing in the Under-19 matches in 2009 or 10 I think and he was a big turner of the ball getting lots of wickets. But they're of no use when our pitches are flat like pancakes.

jeesh
November 30, 2012, 04:09 AM
Noor struggled in the Under 19 WC as well. Perhaps he wont end up living up to the hype/expectations we all had. But its actually not a gr8 time for leg spinners. Piyush Chawla was dubbed for greatness even by Shane Warne's mentor Terry Jenner. Even he hasnt developed the way they wanted.

BanCricFan
November 30, 2012, 04:38 AM
Chokka Maar Naeem!

Oops...wromg thread!

jeesh
January 26, 2013, 10:55 PM
Spinners having slightly less impact in BPL in comparison to last years edition. No demons in Dhaka and Khulna wicket. Lets see what Chittagong has for spinners.

Abdur Razzak and Gazi have been good. Debatable but probably one of the more impressive spinners in BPL so far has been Mosharraf Hossain Rubel. Really has a lot of Rafique in him, and not surprising because its Rafique who is coaching him at the moment at Dhaka Gladiators. At 31 is it too late to give him another go at international cricket? No harm because he seems to have a lot of maturity. He has been performing consistently in first class cricket as well.

shakibrulz
January 27, 2013, 05:22 AM
Apart from Gazi, whom I do think as the best spin prospect at the moment:
Mosharraff Hossain - has great potential to succeed in tests, rate him higher than Sunny.
Enamul Haque Jr - not as great as I'd hoped, but good still.
Saqlain Sajib - went off the radar a bit, but bowled well even in the match where every other bowler got pwned. Do think he might do fine in the long run.

jeesh
February 8, 2013, 11:31 AM
So does Enamul get a chance in the Sri Lankan tour, or still not good enough to impress the selectors?

RazabQ
February 8, 2013, 01:27 PM
See Enam's bad luck is he's way behind the queue. Your 1st choice Test spinners are Shakib & Gazi now. Sunny is 1st backup. For ODIs it's the Shakib + Gazi + Razzak. No backups needed as Nasir, Riyadh and Naeem will get some overs in. Same for T20s. You gotta take at least 3 pacers in your squad of 15. So even if Enam would definitely play for Saffers or NZ for e.g., he doesn't get a shot here.

RazabQ
February 8, 2013, 01:27 PM
Essentially Sunny's emergence has killed Enam's chances until Razzak retires in about 2 years. Unless we have some serious losses of form.

jeesh
February 8, 2013, 11:09 PM
Will be interesting to see if the wicket tally of BPL will influence selectors. Enamul likely to top if his team plays through. Sunny way behind. Enamul was also highest wicket taker in first class. He has totally outperformed Sunny.

Tiger444
February 8, 2013, 11:15 PM
^if Shakib can't play the Tests against SL then I see Enamul making the trip. Otherwise it could be tough since Sunny has done well so far in the national team and we all know how well Gazi's been bowling. It's unfortunate that Enamul has been so unlucky but that's just how stacked we are with our spinners.

shakibrulz
February 9, 2013, 12:39 AM
Is Mosharraf Hossain even in the mix? He has been probably even more consistent than Enamul right?

jeesh
February 9, 2013, 01:29 AM
Its very difficult for Mosharraf Hossain. He was superb in NCL, finished with 40 wickets, just 4 less than Enamul. But he ll always be behind Razzak, Sunny, Enamul.

shakibrulz
February 9, 2013, 03:43 AM
^Why's that? He has more wickets than Jr, Razzak and Sunny in BCL.

al Furqaan
February 9, 2013, 12:45 PM
Essentially Sunny's emergence has killed Enam's chances until Razzak retires in about 2 years. Unless we have some serious losses of form.

I don't think Razzak will retire in 2 years. He's only 30, and he's been bowling very well the last couple of years. I see him bowling for another 5 years. He doesn't even play Tests, so that should prolong his ODI career. I'd like to see him get to 300 ODIs, and 350 wickets. That would be something!

Gowza
February 9, 2013, 06:14 PM
yeah i don't see razzak retiring in 2 years either. as said he's only 30, he doesn't play tests so still has a lot left in him and in the last year or 2 he's found some form and started bowling much better again so he should be really motivated to keep going. he's not far off 200 wickets, if he plays another 100 ODIs then he's got a good chance of crossing 300 wickets and not being far from the 350 wickets milestone. i reckon if he plays 300 ODIs he'd be closer to 400 wickets than 350, that would be something else.

jeesh
February 10, 2013, 10:22 PM
^Why's that? He has more wickets than Jr, Razzak and Sunny in BCL.
I guess selectors are a little tough on him, dont give him the credit he deserves. Rafique had labelled him as his future replacement. Unfortunately the ICL move totally derailed him. I still think he is more intelligent than Sunny, Razzak. Look at the way he tries to beat batsmen with flight, change of pace, turn. He's not a youngster either. So selectors will probably be saying shall i give a run to a 30 sth is not significantly better than my other spinners, or shall we try developing a more younger spinner for the future.

Eshen
February 10, 2013, 10:30 PM
By the time Raj/Sunny retires, it will be turn for Naeem Jr/Tajul, or some other younger SLA. As of now, the SLA pipeline is clogged (though Enam is doing everything possible to breakthrough it).

Tiger444
February 10, 2013, 10:34 PM
Once Noor develops, I feel he'll jump all these SLA's. after all he's a leggie and the more variation, the better.

jeesh
February 10, 2013, 11:00 PM
Noor has a long way to go. Nth special about him at the moment. But yes if he can develop it adds a whole new dimension to our attack.

Tiger444
February 10, 2013, 11:11 PM
I agree. Maybe another 2-3 yrs at least.

Gowza
February 11, 2013, 02:26 AM
both marshall and shabbir offer some part time leggies so if they make it to the team soon i'm sure they'll be utilised a little bit. really need to find more leggies, just because noor is a leggy doesn't mean he'll develop into a world class one, but we don't have any other specialist leggy to put our hope on as yet.

jeesh
February 11, 2013, 05:25 AM
Check this article says it all about leg spin http://www.planetcricket.net/wordpress/2012/02/1843/leg-spin-a-fading-art/

This is a problem all over the world. Leg spin is an art, and at the moment the world is having a severe shortage of such artists. Like Gowza says at best we could benefit from some part timers just to add some variety.

Nadim
February 11, 2013, 07:59 AM
Clever bowling from him today vs DG. still have high hope in him just like 3/4 yrears back. Only 20 so have alot of time to develop, and i'm sure he will develop. Not everyone is a born legend like Warne.

Rabz
February 11, 2013, 08:29 AM
Noor was good today.

shakibrulz
February 11, 2013, 09:47 AM
Don't care about T20s - leggies usually (except the ones like Afridi obviously - who have no future in tests) go for loads of runs in T20s. He has really been doing nothing in FC cricket - which is disappointing. Hope he starts to perform well in FC.

MohammedC
February 11, 2013, 12:08 PM
Another SLA joins the party

Saju Dutta

jeesh
February 20, 2013, 01:14 AM
Big performance from Mosharraf Hossain. Such a cool customer under pressure. One thing different from other SLA's is he never gives any gifts. Length is immaculate. If you want to score of him, you have to take chances.

Zeeshan
February 20, 2013, 02:34 AM
kano, Mominul Haque (http://www.espncricinfo.com/usa/content/player/373696.html) o to bhalo ball kore..........

Rifat
February 21, 2013, 11:56 AM
I am still Hopeful about Noor Hossain. At least the kid is very young in years. Will keep an eye on him to see how he does in domestic competitions. like NCL, BCL, Premier League etc...

jeesh
April 27, 2013, 01:46 AM
A little disappointed with Enamul Jnr. Nowhere near the bowler who was the highest wicket taker of the Under 19 WC, bagged heaps against Zimbabwe and then impressed against England. True the wicket isnt providing assistance, but Enamul didnt show anything to get excited about. He's not far ahead of Sunny's, Mosharraf. Similar level.

I have been following this guy from the Under 19 days. And RM had predicted Enamul could become Bangladesh's premier spinner. And all these years i hoped he would bounce back. But he hasnt developed much.

BengaliPagol
April 27, 2013, 02:02 AM
i thinks its a bit too early to call. He was bagging wickets on tour matches. He bowled well at times and had some moments throughout the first test. Time will tell though.

jeesh
April 27, 2013, 02:15 AM
Absolutely.

But you can tell from the way which someone bowls, the basics, the thought process, even if the wicket isnt conducive for spin. Nothing more than Razzak or Mosharraf or Elias Sunny if you know what i mean. I really had my hopes high thinking he had the potential be a strike spinner. Someone who would get the opposition thinking before the match started.

Tiger444
April 27, 2013, 08:01 AM
I think we have to accept that our SLAs are pretty much the same, regardless of who we put in. This is where I have to give credit to the selectors. Despite Sohag not having the heaps of wickets the other SLAs have, he got a chance and he's definitely proved that he's got more to offer than the likes of Enamul, Mosharref, Elias, and Saqlain.

We should definitely consider bringing Noor Hossain in. Has a pretty good record in FCs. Gives a good variation to our bowling as a leggie and is still very young. It's a worth a try giving him a chance

BD_TigerZ
April 27, 2013, 08:08 AM
I think we have to accept that our SLAs are pretty much the same, regardless of who we put in. This is where I have to give credit to the selectors. Despite Sohag not having the heaps of wickets the other SLAs have, he got a chance and he's definitely proved that he's got more to offer than the likes of Enamul, Mosharref, Elias, and Saqlain.

We should definitely consider bringing Noor Hossain in. Has a pretty good record in FCs. Gives a good variation to our bowling as a leggie and is still very young. It's a worth a try giving him a chance

id still stick with Enam till the world cup at home..Then maybe noor.

jeesh
April 27, 2013, 08:18 AM
Fair enough, although Enamul will probably be only picked for tests.

Tiger444
April 27, 2013, 11:53 AM
Ya I agree Enamul should be our 3rd spinner for T20Is and ODIs. In Tests though, I think it wouldn't hurt to try Noor in the next series against NZ. If he turns out to be the real deal, then we'll have variety in our spin department

al Furqaan
April 27, 2013, 04:01 PM
A little disappointed with Enamul Jnr. Nowhere near the bowler who was the highest wicket taker of the Under 19 WC, bagged heaps against Zimbabwe and then impressed against England. True the wicket isnt providing assistance, but Enamul didnt show anything to get excited about. He's not far ahead of Sunny's, Mosharraf. Similar level.

I have been following this guy from the Under 19 days. And RM had predicted Enamul could become Bangladesh's premier spinner. And all these years i hoped he would bounce back. But he hasnt developed much.

A little harsh. He had Taylor gone for 30 odd but Nafees dropped it and he went on to score 171. That was a pretty useless wicket for spinners. He kept it fairly tight. He needs more than just a single match before deciding. He should get the next series at home vs NZ.

al-Sagar
April 27, 2013, 10:56 PM
after shakib ....... if u consider a second SLA this will be my choice

TEST: enamul
ODI: rajjak
T20: mosharraf rubel

i was really disappointed with Suhrawardi Shuvo. when he could not make use of his run. and i dont think elias sunny will be useful in the long run.

jeesh
April 29, 2013, 11:18 PM
A little harsh. He had Taylor gone for 30 odd but Nafees dropped it and he went on to score 171. That was a pretty useless wicket for spinners. He kept it fairly tight. He needs more than just a single match before deciding. He should get the next series at home vs NZ.
He will be given more opportunities sure. But he's not the strike bowler we are looking for. I used to think Enam would be better than Shakib. The guy was a prodigy as a teenager, and did so well in his first couple of series. And the sort of turn he could generate, was sort of different from our other SLA's.

Not saying he cant get to that level. Look at Herath, Ajmal, both peaked after 30. But as it stands now Shakib is still our best spinner.

reyme
April 30, 2013, 08:43 PM
We should prepare a similar track for NZ tour now and play several practice matches to see which spinner does the best.

jeesh
May 1, 2013, 11:42 PM
Noor Hossain had a decent NCL with 20 wickets at 27.95, also had 2 five wicket hauls. Average compared to other spinners-there are 9 other spinners ahead of him in the wicket list.

Seems like our under 19 team has a leg spinner by the name of Jubair Hossain, who had a pretty good series against Sri Lanka.

One leg spinner could really improve Bangladesh's spin attack. We have half a dozen SLA's, one very talented OS. All we need is a leg spinner. Someone at the level of Cremer will do.

al Furqaan
May 1, 2013, 11:47 PM
Noor Hossain had a decent NCL with 20 wickets at 27.95, also had 2 five wicket hauls. Average compared to other spinners-there are 9 other spinners ahead of him in the wicket list.

Seems like our under 19 team has a leg spinner by the name of Jubair Hossain, who had a pretty good series against Sri Lanka.

One leg spinner could really improve Bangladesh's spin attack. We have half a dozen SLA's, one very talented OS. All we need is a leg spinner. Someone at the level of Cremer will do.

I think Cremer has a lot of talent, can turn the ball quite a bit like most leggies, and has a very good googly. But for some reason he has so far been distinctly ordinary. His stats against us are a bit inflated with his 4 for 4 mopping up the tail in the first Test.

The ZCF conscensus is that though talented, he bowls too slowly at international level. There were no guns so can't tell for sure, but I think that is a very good reason for not being affective. However, an additional 5-8 kph pace would probably reduce his turn.

Similar issues for Keegan Meth. He will get a few wickets against us in favorable conditions, but top teams will just ride his swing out. Although, the amount of swing he gets, even at 72 mph he could be a handful for top teams.

jeesh
May 2, 2013, 08:42 AM
Cremers a good bolwer, no magic like Paul Strang though.

Zimbabwe have a thing with leg spinners, like we do with SLA's. Paul Strang, Adam Huckle, Brian Murphy, now Cremer.

Tiger444
May 2, 2013, 09:15 AM
Noor Hossain had a decent NCL with 20 wickets at 27.95, also had 2 five wicket hauls. Average compared to other spinners-there are 9 other spinners ahead of him in the wicket list.

Seems like our under 19 team has a leg spinner by the name of Jubair Hossain, who had a pretty good series against Sri Lanka.

One leg spinner could really improve Bangladesh's spin attack. We have half a dozen SLA's, one very talented OS. All we need is a leg spinner. Someone at the level of Cremer will do.

I'd seriously think about giving Noor a go in the NZ series. We decided to chance our arm at Sohag despite not taking even close to the amount of wickets compared to the likes of Enamul and Elias but look at how well he's done.

NCL and international cricket are very different. We shouldn't just look at the highest wicket takers because our style is very different compared to the rest of the world.

We already have Shakib as our SLA for Tests and Razzak for the shorter forms. So we don't really need anymore SLAs. A legspin her can give us a dangerous look with out bowling attack.

jeesh
May 2, 2013, 12:39 PM
At least should be given a go with the A team, even though there are other types of spinner with better record.

shuziburo
May 2, 2013, 12:59 PM
A little harsh. He had Taylor gone for 30 odd but Nafees dropped it and he went on to score 171. That was a pretty useless wicket for spinners. He kept it fairly tight. He needs more than just a single match before deciding. He should get the next series at home vs NZ.

Our spinners need to watch Herath bowl in tests and how he spins his web ball-by-ball. Our spinners do pretty well in the ODI, although I would be tempted to try Enamul jnr in place of Razzak in one or two games. Razzak bowls well, but his obligatory deliveries on the toes get on my nerves.

shuziburo
May 2, 2013, 01:00 PM
We need to develop more non-SLA's. Another good off-spinner and a couple of leg-spinners would be a good place to start.

BD_TigerZ
January 15, 2014, 01:26 AM
Maybe Taijul or Sajib deserves a debut?

jeesh
March 18, 2014, 09:23 PM
Taijul Islam 3 for 12 against South Africa in T20 Warmup.

Gowza
March 18, 2014, 09:33 PM
Taijul showing that he should be next in line.

jeesh
March 27, 2014, 11:11 PM
http://www.espncricinfo.com/world-t20/content/story/731699.html

Watch & Learn BCB

Gowza
March 28, 2014, 03:28 AM
WI were able to get him, why couldn't BCB.

MHRAM
March 28, 2014, 03:51 AM
We have so many quality spinners in our pipeline but no one to groove them. Looking at the progress made by Gazi under Mushtaq, BCB should have made him long term spin consultant for Bangladesh.

jeesh
March 28, 2014, 03:53 AM
BCB has his services for 100 days. All they need to do is give him a call. But i think WI have been smart enough to keep him occupied.

jeesh
March 28, 2014, 03:58 AM
We have so many quality spinners in our pipeline but no one to groove them. Looking at the progress made by Gazi under Mushtaq, BCB should have made him long term spin consultant for Bangladesh.
Gazi and co need constant ongoing support. I dont think the approach of someone coming and training for 10 days and then going will work. The coach will need to be there on day to day basis and even guide the bowler tactically during the match.

Now obviously Saqlain is not willing to work full time. I dont see whats holding us back from hiring either Mohammad Salahuddin or Mohammad Rafique on a full time basis. Salahuddin in particular played a huge role in the development of Shakib and many of our best players, and also helped Razzak out when he was reported. One of these guys can work with our players all the time, while Saqlain can be utilized for those 100 days to train a wider group of sprinners including youngsters like Taijul, Naeem Islam Jnr

MHRAM
March 28, 2014, 04:17 AM
^
There is also a shortage of proper coaching staff during domestic matches. The reason why our domestic structure is unsatisfactory.

jeesh
April 1, 2014, 06:40 AM
Safe to say atm Sohag Gazi is no better than Mahmudullah or Nasir Hossain or Naeem Islam. Skill set, intelligence of a part time spinner.

Pakistan has the luxury of a player like Hafeez whose bowling is far superior to those of our specialized bowlers.

MHRAM
April 1, 2014, 07:17 AM
I wouldn't say Hafeez is better than our specialist spinners. To his credit, Hafeez is a limited bowler and always will be but what he does best is bowl within his limits. He has no doosra, no arm ball, barely spins the ball much but still is a useful bowler. Razzak has all the elements to become a quality bowler- the ball that turns away from the right hander, the ball that straightens, arm ball.

Now the problem is our bowlers bowl 3 good deliveries and 3 bad balls. So as a result a batsman plays out those 3 good balls quietly and pummels the other 3 ones hence our bowlers end up with poor figures. Its not rocket science. Our bowlers need to cut down on poor deliveries. In life, a perfect human being is not someone who necessarily has some exceptional qualities, but he has fewer shorcomings.

Gazi on the other hand is done and dusted. I can't remember the last time he bowled well.

rinathq
April 1, 2014, 07:52 AM
we have quality spinners.... but the problem is, for the last 6-7 years, how many new spinners have we gone through despite the inconsistent performance? We still have the same Raj who only bowls well against minnows.... we gave Enamul Huq Jnr 1-2 chances and than dropped him. We gave Elias some chances and dropped him even though he didnt perform that bad. We gave Arafat some chances but dropped him even though he performed well. There are wicket takers like Taijul, Saqlain, Nur waiting to get some chances but how on earth can they expect to be selected with this mentality.

shuziburo
April 1, 2014, 07:54 AM
Razzak and Gazi are done. We need to look at other options, including other off-spinners and leg-spinners. They have to put in the time to bowl consistently. Plus, all spinners should be made to watch Herath frequently. This man is amazingly accurate and varies his bowling continuously. It is essential in all forms of the game.

BD_TigerZ
April 1, 2014, 08:13 AM
Razzak and Gazi are done.

Groom Noor, Sajib, Taijul for the windies series.

Gowza
April 1, 2014, 08:20 AM
arafat should get a few more chances, elias sunny shouldn't be completely dumped either.

jeesh
April 1, 2014, 09:15 AM
I thought we would give some trouble to the Aussies. But what trouble. It was friendly, timid, harmless spin bowling. No bite, no character nothing. Not even from Shakib.

Funny how our so called strength is slowly becoming our major weakness. All 3 wickets today were by pacers.

mufi_02
April 1, 2014, 09:16 AM
Gazi is done. He is even worse than Razzak now.

WarWolf
April 1, 2014, 03:16 PM
Gazi is done. He is even worse than Razzak now.
He will again be good if he is handled by someone like Saqi.

BengaliPagol
April 1, 2014, 05:17 PM
Sohag is terrible. Bowling loopy short deliveries to Warner/Finch and you will pay. Doesn't seem to have any variety at all.

Rana Melb
April 1, 2014, 09:03 PM
I thought we would give some trouble to the Aussies. But what trouble. It was friendly, timid, harmless spin bowling. No bite, no character nothing. Not even from Shakib.

Funny how our so called strength is slowly becoming our major weakness. All 3 wickets today were by pacers.


As Mushi stated- The ball was not turning during that part of time..so it was a pitch for pacers. Were we missing ZIA??:-/

Gowza
April 1, 2014, 09:58 PM
Big spin and big drift are the best assets for a spinner, I'm amazed how well ajmal has done and how well kumble did without the spin so it can be done but it's tough.

Rana Melb
April 1, 2014, 10:10 PM
Under the current brand of cricket we need a mystery spinner. Traditional spinners are not always fruitful. Do we know anyone in the pipeline….. who can be our mystery spinner ??:-/<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

jeesh
April 1, 2014, 10:58 PM
As Mushi stated- The ball was not turning during that part of time..so it was a pitch for pacers. Were we missing ZIA??:-/
Excuse! Day match-blame it on the pitch. Night match-blame it on the dew.

Its all about lack of skill and intelligence.

Mohammad Nabi is a better spinner than our lot. And even part timers like Raina, Hodge are bowling better.

MHRAM
April 1, 2014, 11:34 PM
Mystery spinner my foot.

We need a Herath. A bowler who bowls consistant line and length and gets a wicket. I have been following him for almost a couple of years and noticed that he hardly bowls a poor delivery which is why he is so successful, not to mention that unlike our bowlers, he gives the ball a bit of air.

Gowza
April 2, 2014, 02:03 AM
exactly, and it's the same with pace bowler, the more consistently you bowl good lines the better off you will be. herath does get a decent bit of turn which helps, and he gives it air as already stated and the accuracy and consistency is what makes him great.

as for mystery spinners, there aren't many and they aren't really that successful are they, mendis is found out, narine i wouldn't consider to be a mystery spinner it's just that he has a lot of variations but nothing really mysterious about what he bowls besides he's hasn't been so good in tests and his ODI stats have really suffered over the last couple of years.

how much turn does nur hossain get?

jeesh
April 2, 2014, 02:53 AM
Mystery spinner my foot.

We need a Herath. A bowler who bowls consistant line and length and gets a wicket. I have been following him for almost a couple of years and noticed that he hardly bowls a poor delivery which is why he is so successful, not to mention that unlike our bowlers, he gives the ball a bit of air.
Absolutely correct. In many ways Rafique used to do this.

Herath does have a couple of variations though. A carrom ball, and one that goes the other way. But MHRAM is correct. 80-90% of the damage is done with his orthodox bowling.

jeesh
April 2, 2014, 02:55 AM
Here is a nice write up on Herath's skills and recent match winning performance

http://www.espncricinfo.com/world-t20/content/story/733207.html

BengaliPagol
April 2, 2014, 03:35 AM
Arafat Sunny should be our 2nd choice specialist spinner now.

Gowza
April 2, 2014, 03:52 AM
Arafat Sunny should be our 2nd choice specialist spinner now.

certainly for ODIs and should be around there for t20s as well, taijul should be looked at for t20s and tests. sajib the forever back-up, he's been playing domestics for 7 years, over 200 FC wickets, average less than 22, strike rate 45 and he's never got a sniff, instead we've given more chances to the likes of razzak and enamul jr.

WarWolf
April 2, 2014, 06:45 AM
The pipeline is there, but it's already leaked. Need to have some urgent repair works by Saqi.

Rana Melb
April 2, 2014, 08:46 AM
certainly for ODIs and should be around there for t20s as well, taijul should be looked at for t20s and tests. sajib the forever back-up, he's been playing domestics for 7 years, over 200 FC wickets, average less than 22, strike rate 45 and he's never got a sniff, instead we've given more chances to the likes of razzak and enamul jr.

Spot on. We should try these players too.

mafizraju
April 2, 2014, 08:57 AM
What pipeline ? how many spinners we have used in the last couple of years. all of them were one series wonder. Then kapoot, and nowhere to be found. you can't keep finding 20 years olds, and chuck them out when they are 21.

Gowza
April 2, 2014, 04:07 PM
What pipeline ? how many spinners we have used in the last couple of years. all of them were one series wonder. Then kapoot, and nowhere to be found. you can't keep finding 20 years olds, and chuck them out when they are 21.

who are you talking about? elias who averages 16 in his t20Is and 32 in ODIs. arafat who averages 8 from his 2 t20IS and 34 from his 4 ODIs? or sohag gazi who averages 29 from his 16 ODIs and despite his 42 average in tests already has 2 5fers and a 4fer? we gave enamul jr and razzak a few more chances in tests where both failed otherwise we were using the same general spinners we have for years (razzak and shakib mainly).

we don't even know if they are one series wonders because we haven't given them enough chances to find out but they've done well in various formats so we should look at them in their strong formats, the other thing is they haven't really had much coaching bar sohag in his first series.

they're all still around the national team except for enamul who has been given a few chances and not shone and elias who lost form and then was left behind despite showing promise.

jeesh
September 5, 2014, 01:41 PM
Taijul seems to be a good find. Lovely Mohammad Rafique-ish action. Classic left arm orthodox. Good thing is if you base your bowling on flight rather than turn like Taijul is doing, you can bowl well on any type of surface. Even if the youngster doesnt pick up much wickets, this should be a terrific opportunity for him to gain some experience.

Hom is proving to be quite decent as well. Maybe we should give him a go instead of Riyad.

5tonne
September 5, 2014, 07:44 PM
My experience is our spinners has always looked good against WI. Shohrawardy Shuvo, Elias Sunny comes to my mind. I would wait to rate them until they play against an Asian team.

Gowza
September 5, 2014, 07:44 PM
Taijul seems to be a good find. Lovely Mohammad Rafique-ish action. Classic left arm orthodox. Good thing is if you base your bowling on flight rather than turn like Taijul is doing, you can bowl well on any type of surface. Even if the youngster doesnt pick up much wickets, this should be a terrific opportunity for him to gain some experience.

Hom is proving to be quite decent as well. Maybe we should give him a go instead of Riyad.

didn't get to see any of the match so far but agree, turn can make a spin bowler oh so dangerous but when it comes down to putting pressure on the batsman and keeping it tight it's about good line and length plus good drift and turn although a very good bonus should really be less of a concern because tbh not many spinners get enough turn to truly trouble the batsman a tremendous amount like warne, murali and macgill did.

ajmal is a good recent example of a bowler who doesn't turn it much but has weaved a terrific record, he does it with tight line and length and some drift. kumble also got 600 wickets without turning it much.

wish i had gotten to see hom. but from what i've read on here riyad was used very poorly, unless he is being used primarily as a batsman and a bowler to only turn to when the team can't buy a wicket and they've already tried everything but gone nowhere then he should be getting long spells not 1 over here 2 overs there. spinners need their long spells to get into a groove and to create pressure on a batsman.

jeesh
September 5, 2014, 09:51 PM
Thats true @5tonne. Not just against West Indies, many of our spinners start well against most teams, but lose form.

But so far Taijul Islam looks very good. Lovely action, technique, release. As mentioned before relies on drift, flight, accuracy. If he doesnt take his eye of the game, continues to work hard, then we might finally have a replacement for Mohammad Rafique.

Regarding Riyad, he was horrible. He didnt know what he was doing. Bowling wide, short, all over the place. Cant fault Mushfiq for taking him out.

al Furqaan
September 5, 2014, 10:14 PM
I only saw a little of Taijul and I liked what I saw. 2-69 on a flat track is not bad at all. Econ rate of well under 3 is excellent. Al Amin, Hom, and Taijul did an excellent job of limiting scoring opportunities. Thats how ZIM pushed SA nearly to a fifth day. Wickets will come, barring the current pair, WI aren't known for stonewalling. Our bowling sucks and we need to play within our limits to keep enforicing draws until we can consistently bowl teams out.

5tonne
September 6, 2014, 01:35 AM
If Taijul is better than our average SLAs its good news for our cricket. Hope he can get few more wickets in this match and inspire the team in creating momentums.

al Furqaan
September 6, 2014, 11:19 AM
I agree with Jeesh, he is reminiscent of Rafique. Probably turns the ball more based on CI commentary. Also quite different from Shakib so shouldn't be overkill with both in the lineup.

jeesh
September 9, 2014, 10:50 AM
http://www.guardian.co.tt/sport/2014-09-08/benn-bangla-spinners-were-too-slow

Part of the reason, but i guess our batsmen struggled against him because of his height and accuracy. One might assume our batsmen should be good against SLA considering we have an army of them in domestic cricket. But we dont have ones who are 6 and a half feet. Benn was not only getting more bounce, he was turning the ball a lot more than our guys.

Seems like Taijul's bowling is more about loop, flight and accuracy. But he needs to figure out how to extract more turn. Accuracy is good, but you are at the mercy of batsmen. You have to wait for them to make a mistake. But if you can get the ball to turn and bounce like say Rangana Herath, wickets will come even against the most organized batsmen.

jeesh
September 20, 2014, 06:00 AM
If Gazi is cleared, he, Shakib and Taijul will probably be the three spinners for the Zimbabwe tour.

But should we give a go to Saqlain Sajib. I ve only seen him in BPL, and he is probably more attacking than Arafat/Elias Sunny and Taijul.

Taijul has been impressive, but he seems more of a type who will flight and bowl with metronomic accuracy. But he doesnt have much variety, not much turn either. I cant see Bangladesh bowling with three SLA's so probably it has to be Shakib along with one of Taijul/Sajib/Elias or Arafat Sunny/Enamul Haque. Taijul and Sajib more probable, but you never know what Faruque Ahmed thinks.

Gowza
September 20, 2014, 06:30 AM
An attacking spinner would be great as long as they're good enough to get wickets at international level otherwise an accurate spinner might be the way. Tbh I think Riyad or hom will be as good as the recent gazi so if one of them play then no need for gazi.

jeesh
September 20, 2014, 06:39 AM
Shamsur, Tamim, Mominul, Mushfiq, Shakib, Anamul, Riyad, Taijul, Robiul, Al Amin, X

Will be interesting to see who the X is. We might take a chance and go with three quicks, Shafiul as the third seamer. But if you prepare flat turning tracks, pointless to have three seamers. And i dont think our selectors will want to pick three SLA's

Gowza
September 20, 2014, 06:48 AM
Will al amin be able to play? I'd go hom over riyad but wouldn't happen, taskin, rubel and shafiul in there for pacer spots.

BanCricFan
September 20, 2014, 10:39 AM
Will al amin be able to play? I'd go hom over riyad but wouldn't happen, taskin, rubel and shafiul in there for pacer spots.

And why would you go with Hom instead of MUllah who, at least, got 2 half-centuries in the Tests? And got a wicket or two. Hom, on the other hand, got out LBW to a full-toss AND on his pad. He played Benn as if though he has never faced a SLA.

Would be interesting to see your thought process.

Gowza
September 20, 2014, 11:04 AM
And why would you go with Hom instead of MUllah who, at least, got 2 half-centuries in the Tests? And got a wicket or two. Hom, on the other hand, got out LBW to a full-toss AND on his pad. He played Benn as if though he has never faced a SLA.

Would be interesting to see your thought process.

and how many times has riyad got out poorly in his career?

riyad has been wasting opportunities for over 7 years, a couple of 50s doesn't change that, if he does it consistently and decides to act like a senior player and a decent international player then he will deserve a spot in the team, hom bowled better than riyad in that one test match plus he's a more talented batsman (my opinion of course and i do think riyad is a talented bat just not as talented as hom). in 128 FC innings riyad has 6 centuries, hom has 5 tons in 57 innings.

aside from that we were talking about the zimbabwe tour, if there is any tour to give some other squad members ago then it's against zimbabwe.

Tiger444
September 20, 2014, 11:31 AM
and how many times has riyad got out poorly in his career?

riyad has been wasting opportunities for over 7 years, a couple of 50s doesn't change that, if he does it consistently and decides to act like a senior player and a decent international player then he will deserve a spot in the team, hom bowled better than riyad in that one test match plus he's a more talented batsman (my opinion of course and i do think riyad is a talented bat just not as talented as hom). in 128 FC innings riyad has 6 centuries, hom has 5 tons in 57 innings.

aside from that we were talking about the zimbabwe tour, if there is any tour to give some other squad members ago then it's against zimbabwe.

Have to disagree about Hom being more talented than Riyad. Of course we have to see Hom more but from what I've seen, I don't see Hom being much better in an area compared to Riyad. Hom's talented but there have been other talents that haven't panned out. The key is if he can perform consistently.

BanCricFan
September 20, 2014, 11:52 AM
To add to what Tiger444 has said, you simply don't compare our "FC" stats to Test records. Riyad has played a lot of Test matches amongst all the FC matches. He averages 28.36 with the bat in TEST which is mighty good for our lads. Has quite a few TEST wickets, too. Which is quite handy, to say the least. Man! You're almost making me sound like a Riyad "fan". Also, you JUST don't drop a batsman who has just scored two Test 50s against a very good attack to make away for a "talented" bat! This is the most bizzare thing I have ever heard. Also, you just don't give "a go" to a player because its ONLY Zim. This is even more absurd. We are not Aus, SA or Eng...not just yet. The last time we played Zim they beat us in a Test -just a little humble reminder.

al Furqaan
September 20, 2014, 11:54 AM
Will al amin be able to play? I'd go hom over riyad but wouldn't happen, taskin, rubel and shafiul in there for pacer spots.

Why the hell would Rubel warrant a spot with his 80+ average and 100+ strike rate??? Robiul is far better, at least bowls the odd wicket taking delivery. Taskin, Robiul, Shafiul for me.

Murad
September 20, 2014, 12:00 PM
Rubel will take a 3 wicket haul in practice game and replace rabiul as usual. You perform in the practice game, you are in the playing XI for the main game. That's how it works in Bangladesh.

Hom has no future. He has a long way to go. Needs lots of practice with the A-team or academy team.

BanCricFan
September 20, 2014, 12:02 PM
Its too early for Taskin. Unless, you want to see him breakdown like Mash. Let him, inshaallah, first play the CWC down under and then we could see...

And, oneday you will regret dissing Rubel like that. Someone will open a thread entitled "where are the geniuses who wanted to drop..." :D

Tiger444
September 20, 2014, 12:09 PM
To add to what Tiger444 has said, you simply don't compare our "FC" stats to Test records. Riyad has played a lot of Test matches amongst all the FC matches. He averages 28.36 with the bat in TEST which is mighty good for our lads. Has quite a few TEST wickets, too. Which is quite handy, to say the least. Man! You're almost making me sound like a Riyad "fan". Also, you JUST don't drop a batsman who has just scored two Test 50s against a very good attack to make away for a "talented" bat! This is the most bizzare thing I have ever heard. Also, you just don't give "a go" to a player because its ONLY Zim. This is even more absurd. We are not Aus, SA or Eng...not just yet. The last time we played Zim they beat us in a Test -just a little humble reminder.

I agree. Can't really drop Riyad, somebody who to his credit, did pretty well on this tour.

That said, Riyad still has to prove himself more. He might have saved his butt this tour but it doesn't make up for the failures he's had in Tests over the last few years. So he has to keep it up or else his spot will be under scrutiny again.

Tiger444
September 20, 2014, 12:21 PM
Rubel, Robiul, Shafiul and Al-Amin are all pretty similar ability wise. Overall stats doesn't paint the whole picture. Rubel is right up there with the others when it comes to bowling outside of Asia. Robiul's is obviously much better than the others because of the Zimbabwe series but we still don't know if that was just a one off tour or not. The others are pretty similar. Robiul a 33, Al-Amin a 50, and both Rubel and Shafiul a 59 to be exact.

At home, again all our bowlers have terrible averages. Shafiul a 70, Al-Amin a 96, Rubel a 139 and Robiul a 227.

Our pace bowling is just that pathetic and to this date, only Shahadat and Mash were Test class pacers at one point. Sadly, they're our best options from the looks of it. Good thing is they're still young so hopefully they can improve but we might have to live with 50-60 average pacers for a while

BanCricFan
September 20, 2014, 12:21 PM
^^
Of course, Riyad is just about breaking even as far as his spot in the Test. I am NOT a fan of Riyad at all. But, It doesn't stop me being fair. The Great Sissy has done enough to save his rear. Infact, he is very adept at that. Thas the bloody frustrating part. You would not want him in your side nor can you leave him out. Better we just shoot him!

And, as far as him being very inconsistent...well, allow me to give you an intro to all BD cricketers...

Tiger444
September 20, 2014, 12:27 PM
^^
Of course, Riyad is just about breaking even as far as his spot in the Test. I am NOT a fan of Riyad at all. But, It doesn't stop me to be fair. The Great Sissy has done enough to save his rear. He is very adept at that. Thas the bloody frustrating part. You would not want him in your side nor can you leave him out. Better we just shoot him!

And, as far as him being very inconsistent...well, allow me to give you an intro to all BD cricketers...

We might take the frustration out on Riyad for being a sissy but it shouldn't go only on Riyad. What have others done when given chances? Others haven't really proved themselves either. If others really took their chances, either Riyad would have to improve his performances or be out of the team.

This lack of competition is what really hurts our team.

BanCricFan
September 20, 2014, 12:39 PM
...
Our pace bowling is just that pathetic and to this date, only Shahadat and Mash were Test class pacers at one point. Sadly, they're our best options from the looks of it. Good thing is they're still young so hopefully they can improve but we might have to live with 50-60 average pacers for a while

That. But, bulk of the blame fall squarly on the "shoulders" of the BCB lot. They have never tried to answer our pace problems properly. No Pace Academy, sporting pitches, looking after pace bowlers (Talha and SRK), steady specialist coaches at every levels, meaningful domestic tournaments etc etc.

With proper guidance and structure in place the likes of Rubel, Taskin, Abu Jayed, Al-Amin, Abul Hasan and couple of left armers (can't quite recall their names atm) could be turned into match-winners.

Tiger444
September 20, 2014, 12:56 PM
That. But, bulk of the blame fall squarly on the "shoulders" of the BCB lot. They have never tried to answer our pace problems properly. No Pace Academy, sporting pitches, looking after pace bowlers (Talha and SRK), steady specialist coaches at every levels, meaningful domestic tournaments etc etc.

With proper guidance and structure in place the likes of Rubel, Taskin, Abu Jayed, Al-Amin, Abul Hasan and couple of left armers (can't quite recall their names atm) could be turned into match-winners.

Agreed. With the right type of support, these pacers could've gone further but BCB continues to ignore our pace problems. At least with the batting, we can see some improvements, even though it's not where it should be but the pace situation is just dire and it hasn't really improved.

Gowza
September 20, 2014, 04:35 PM
To add to what Tiger444 has said, you simply don't compare our "FC" stats to Test records. Riyad has played a lot of Test matches amongst all the FC matches. He averages 28.36 with the bat in TEST which is mighty good for our lads. Has quite a few TEST wickets, too. Which is quite handy, to say the least. Man! You're almost making me sound like a Riyad "fan". Also, you JUST don't drop a batsman who has just scored two Test 50s against a very good attack to make away for a "talented" bat! This is the most bizzare thing I have ever heard. Also, you just don't give "a go" to a player because its ONLY Zim. This is even more absurd. We are not Aus, SA or Eng...not just yet. The last time we played Zim they beat us in a Test -just a little humble reminder.

28 is good by our lads, horrible way to rate a player, rate him by test standards please and 28 is poor. take out test matches and hom still has a better FC record than riyad.

Gowza
September 20, 2014, 04:36 PM
Why the hell would Rubel warrant a spot with his 80+ average and 100+ strike rate??? Robiul is far better, at least bowls the odd wicket taking delivery. Taskin, Robiul, Shafiul for me.

because the selectors like him, i wouldn't pick him for the squad but there is a good chance he could.

Gowza
September 20, 2014, 05:17 PM
oh and i know what i said about riyad/hom is the most logical or fair, as said riyad just scored 2 test half tons but i am so sick of him doing just enough to save himself then doing nothing to help the team for another year, it's not like he played a match winning or saving innings, his innings (as his bigger innings tend to) had no impact on the match and for someone who has been in the team for 7 years that just isn't good enough.

and i'll never accept a batting average of 28 to be worthy of selection just because it's good by BD standards, i'd prefer to take a gamble and try someone else.

Tiger444
September 20, 2014, 06:01 PM
oh and i know what i said about riyad/hom is the most logical or fair, as said riyad just scored 2 test half tons but i am so sick of him doing just enough to save himself then doing nothing to help the team for another year, it's not like he played a match winning or saving innings, his innings (as his bigger innings tend to) had no impact on the match and for someone who has been in the team for 7 years that just isn't good enough.

and i'll never accept a batting average of 28 to be worthy of selection just because it's good by BD standards, i'd prefer to take a gamble and try someone else.

If he was just a batsman, he would've been out a long time ago but it's the combo that he brings with his bowling and batting that has kept him in the team. His bowling average is as good or better than some of our specialist spinners. That itself helps him a lot in making the team, and then obviously with his batting, he makes himself more useful than a specialist bowler and batsman.

Shuvagata should take Nasir's place when Shakib comes back because Nasir has not been helpful in any way.

al Furqaan
September 20, 2014, 06:28 PM
because the selectors like him, i wouldn't pick him for the squad but there is a good chance he could.

Oh OK. I was afraid you actually thought he could do some damage.

Gowza
September 20, 2014, 07:45 PM
If he was just a batsman, he would've been out a long time ago but it's the combo that he brings with his bowling and batting that has kept him in the team. His bowling average is as good or better than some of our specialist spinners. That itself helps him a lot in making the team, and then obviously with his batting, he makes himself more useful than a specialist bowler and batsman.

Shuvagata should take Nasir's place when Shakib comes back because Nasir has not been helpful in any way.

This is something I go back and forth with, nasir was world class and test class for much longer than riyad was which is why nasir should get a longer leash imo, but riyad just scored runs so I don't think there is a clear cut decision on this despite nasir being in poor form.

Gowza
September 20, 2014, 07:46 PM
Oh OK. I was afraid you actually thought he could do some damage.

I gave up on rubel for tests awhile ago, he still has potential but he's had enough chances without results to keep picking him.

al Furqaan
September 20, 2014, 08:03 PM
I gave up on rubel for tests awhile ago, he still has potential but he's had enough chances without results to keep picking him.

No, he never had potential. Just a bit of reverse swing and quicker than the average BD seamer, that's all. If he had potential he'd have taken a few five wicket hauls like Shahadat, who really had potential. 5-165 shouldn't even count. His wicket to innings ratio is less than 1...facepalm.

Gowza
September 20, 2014, 09:07 PM
No, he never had potential. Just a bit of reverse swing and quicker than the average BD seamer, that's all. If he had potential he'd have taken a few five wicket hauls like Shahadat, who really had potential. 5-165 shouldn't even count. His wicket to innings ratio is less than 1...facepalm.

Yeah got a point, never been any good in the longer format, been alright in the shorter ones.

Gowza
September 20, 2014, 09:13 PM
Isn't riyads test bowling average a lot lower due to taking advantage of a weak WI team? Or is that a misconception?

dark mage
September 21, 2014, 05:15 AM
This is something I go back and forth with, nasir was world class and test class for much longer than riyad was which is why nasir should get a longer leash imo, but riyad just scored runs so I don't think there is a clear cut decision on this despite nasir being in poor form.

I am not a Riyad fan, nut I guess I will have to disagree with Nasir being World Class. I have always had doubts about him facing a strong bowling attack outside the subcontinent and I was proven right. Nasir lacks technique to survive in Tests and against the faster ball. His inflated average came playing in our conditions. Nasir's only good attribute was his confidence and playing well under pressure.

Riyad on the other hand has had a longer career and a pretty decent average which can be improved on as he has what Nasir lacks, and that is technique. What he lacks is guts. Riyad never looked uncomfortable against the faster bowling and he can win us matches as we saw when WI last toured bangladesh. I also remember his century against New Zealand in New Zealand in a totally grass-topped pitch. I don't think Nasir could've done that.

Gowza
September 21, 2014, 07:37 AM
I'll admit nasir needs to play more tests and perform a bit more in that format but most of his test career has been test class and most of his ODI career has been world class and that's a 41 match career not a small sample size. Riyad's average of 28 in tests is not decent and his ODI average is padded by not outs and falls below 30 if you take out zim matches. Performance is the most important long term factor, not talent. Nasir has performed much better than Riyad.

dark mage
September 21, 2014, 08:40 AM
Like I said before, Nasir's average was good because he played in our condition. Tell me, has he ever played outside the subcontinent before this series? I don't mind him for ODIs but for tests, the basic thing you need is Technique. I am sure, Nasir would still do well in our condition but outside our country and against fast-bowling, Riyad is definitely the better batsman. For example, I can see Riyad bat up the order, but tell me honestly, do you think Nasir is capable of batting up the order?

BanCricFan
September 21, 2014, 09:17 AM
28 is good by our lads, horrible way to rate a player, rate him by test standards please and 28 is poor. take out test matches and hom still has a better FC record than riyad.

And on the basis of this little "fact" you want Riyad out and give "a go" to Hom! Wunderschön!

I think you're just arguing here for the sake of it. Had you followed BD cricket from its birth and not jumping on the train midway -so to speak- you would have realized a few things quite organically; amongst them is the fact that you cannot always apply a general law (standard yardstick/international average) to a particular case (Riyad and BD batsmen). Standard yardstick is merely a guide to measure/gauge all sorts of matters with all their relativity. You see, all babies don't grow uniformly (despite the growth chart) as there could be many factors/variables involved. Nor a Turkey fly at the height of an Eagle -technically, both are birds. Nor a Fiat Punto bombs down the motorway at the capable speed of a, say, Venom GT (no, I'm not into cars and don't work for them and certainly don't own one). Although, both have four wheels and a steering wheel. If I haven't put you to sleep already- hopefully, now you will comprehend the futility of comparing the Test average of a Riyad or any BD bats with that of a Don or any other greats. Hence, I don't. One has to learn to temper his optimism/expectation with a dose of pragmatism and reality.

Now, who else -beside the Homie -would you wanna give "a go" against those minnows (Zim)? :)

BanCricFan
September 21, 2014, 09:27 AM
Like I said before, Nasir's average was good because he played in our condition. Tell me, has he ever played outside the subcontinent before this series? I don't mind him for ODIs but for tests, the basic thing you need is Technique. I am sure, Nasir would still do well in our condition but outside our country and against fast-bowling, Riyad is definitely the better batsman. For example, I can see Riyad bat up the order, but tell me honestly, do you think Nasir is capable of batting up the order?

Spoke like an insider!

Nasir has huge potential and temperament wise one of the better ones from BD. One of the reasons why he has done well until recent times. But, his all too obvoius technical flaws are catching up with him now, especially, in foreign conditions. Riyad has much better technique but lacks seriously in temperament dept. Hence, the relative failure in his career so far.

Gowza
September 21, 2014, 09:31 AM
And on the basis of this little "fact" you want Riyad out and give "a go" to Hom! Wunderschön!

I think you're just arguing here for the sake of it. Had you followed BD cricket from its birth and not jumping on the train midway -so to speak- you would have realized a few things quite organically; amongst them is the fact that you cannot always apply a general law (standard yardstick/international average) to a particular case (Riyad and BD batsmen). Standard yardstick is merely a guide to measure/gauge all sorts of matters with all their relativity. You see, all babies don't grow uniformly (despite the growth chart) as there could be many factors/variables involved. Nor a Turkey fly at the height of an Eagle -technically, both are birds. Nor a Fiat Punto bombs down the motorway at the capable speed of a, say, Venom GT (no, I'm not into cars and don't work for them and certainly don't own one). Although, both have four wheels and a steering wheel. If I haven't put you to sleep already- hopefully, now you will comprehend the futility of comparing the Test average of a Riyad or any BD bats with that of a Don or any other greats. Hence, I don't. One has to learn to temper his optimism/expectation with a dose of pragmatism and reality.

Now, who else -beside the Homie -would you wanna give "a go" against those minnows (Zim)? :)

BD shouldn't have test status if they're happy with batsmen averaging 28, expectations need to be higher. don't compare BD to other test nations? sorry but that is who they are playing if they don't want to be comparable then they shouldn't be in competition with each other.

also riyad's test average of 28 is bad by BD standards not just world standards. tamim averages 36, nasir, 36, mushy 33 (but averaged in the 40s and 50s in recent years), shakib nearly 38, mominul 60+.

Gowza
September 21, 2014, 09:39 AM
Like I said before, Nasir's average was good because he played in our condition. Tell me, has he ever played outside the subcontinent before this series? I don't mind him for ODIs but for tests, the basic thing you need is Technique. I am sure, Nasir would still do well in our condition but outside our country and against fast-bowling, Riyad is definitely the better batsman. For example, I can see Riyad bat up the order, but tell me honestly, do you think Nasir is capable of batting up the order?

riyad's test average of under 20 batting 1-7 from 18 innings (10 matches) supports your point well. also nasir averages 38 in BD, 49 in SL and 58 in zimbabwe, 2 bad matches in WI is exactly that, just 2 bad matches out of 16.

Murad
September 21, 2014, 09:41 AM
I wish all the players did just enough to be in safe side.

BanCricFan
September 21, 2014, 11:31 AM
BD shouldn't have test status if they're happy with batsmen averaging 28, expectations need to be higher. don't compare BD to other test nations? sorry but that is who they are playing if they don't want to be comparable then they shouldn't be in competition with each other.

also riyad's test average of 28 is bad by BD standards not just world standards. tamim averages 36, nasir, 36, mushy 33 (but averaged in the 40s and 50s in recent years), shakib nearly 38, mominul 60+.

Once again, it seems despite all my trying in reaching out I'm hitting a brick wall. I hope its not a deliberate ploy on your behalf on ignoring the unignorable. What "should be" is one thing and what "REALLY is" another. In theory, every Test side should be able to produce Waqars and Wasims or Roberts and Holdings or Steyns and Morkels or Warnes and Muralis or Laras and Tendulkars in their numbers. They REALITY is they don't. Yes, BD is playing Test cricket but don't expect them to be like SA or Aus -just now. There is a very good reason why we are languishing at the bottom of the table. We are simply not good enough -at this stage. Again, thats the absolute naked truth. It doesn't rule out the possibility of us climbing the ladder in the future, though. For that to happen we must make drastic changes to our set up. Not before that. Right now the gulf that exist between us and the top cricket nations is much greater than us and PNG, Afghanistan or Ireland. Again this is quite an observable reality.

Also, please, don't insult your intelligence by trying to falsly convince yourself that there is a huge difference between an average of 28 and 33/36. And, the truth is they all are very poor -by Test standards. And, lets not forget Riyad is an "allrounder" -he bowls too. When you do this you simply come across very desperate and hell-bent on "winning" an argument. Instead of positively contributing in a discussion. :)

Gowza
September 21, 2014, 05:22 PM
Once again, it seems despite all my trying in reaching out I'm hitting a brick wall. I hope its not a deliberate ploy on your behalf on ignoring the unignorable. What "should be" is one thing and what "REALLY is" another. In theory, every Test side should be able to produce Waqars and Wasims or Roberts and Holdings or Steyns and Morkels or Warnes and Muralis or Laras and Tendulkars in their numbers. They REALITY is they don't. Yes, BD is playing Test cricket but don't expect them to be like SA or Aus -just now. There is a very good reason why we are languishing at the bottom of the table. We are simply not good enough -at this stage. Again, thats the absolute naked truth. It doesn't rule out the possibility of us climbing the ladder in the future, though. For that to happen we must make drastic changes to our set up. Not before that. Right now the gulf that exist between us and the top cricket nations is much greater than us and PNG, Afghanistan or Ireland. Again this is quite an observable reality.

Also, please, don't insult your intelligence by trying to falsly convince yourself that there is a huge difference between an average of 28 and 33/36. And, the truth is they all are very poor -by Test standards. And, lets not forget Riyad is an "allrounder" -he bowls too. When you do this you simply come across very desperate and hell-bent on "winning" an argument. Instead of positively contributing in a discussion. :)

So now you're insulting me. All my points are valid. Tamim has 4 tons, mushy 3, mominul 3, those players are certainly a distance ahead of riyad, shakib is to and nasir apart from his last 2 test matches has been a very good test match performer with one ton and a number of 90s.

BD does have test standard players, riyad isn't one of them (so far for any decent period). He has potential but so do others and riyad has had his chance, others haven't been as fortunate but some do deserve a chance. BD won't improve if they keep selecting players like riyad who are talented but don't develop e.g. Ash, alok, aftab, saleh, SN, junaid, shahadat and riyad is dangerously close to being grouped with those players.

Gowza
September 21, 2014, 07:45 PM
Riyad averages nearly 47 with the ball, take out zim and WI (where he did well against a severely weakened team a few years ago) his average is 59, he hasn't been an effective bowler in tests other than against that weakened WI team. If you want to pick riyad that is fine but being that he hasn't really performed consistently then it's a pick based on talent but when that talent has been given as many opportunities as riyad then you have to start considering other options.

jeesh
September 21, 2014, 10:30 PM
At the moment Nasir isnt contributing in any way. Even his fielding has dropped. So he ll definitely be the one for the chop once Shakib returns-i.e. in the test matches. In the ODI's, perhaps we can give him another go and see if he can recover form. There is no better opportunity than to do it against Zimbabwe at home. An in form Nasir can be an invaluable player for Bangladesh, but then again a free ride cannot be given. Doesnt give the right message to the players.

Riyad has improved his bowling off late, at least he isnt far from Gazi. GIves the ball more rip, has developed an arm ballish type delivery which is delivered with an angled arm. Then he has also got that delay delivery. Consistency though isnt there, but then again Gazi is no better. Riyad was dissapointing in WI in the tests. In Shakib's absence, expectation was more. Perhaps he doesnt have the concentration and stamina in tests. You need to keep bowling good length over after over, tiring the batsman and forcing him to make a mistake. But Riyad may be able to bowl 3 dots in a raw but then will give a short one or half volley which totally puts the batsman back in the drivers seat.

Jadukor
September 21, 2014, 10:40 PM
Nasir has performed better in all formats compared to Ryad. Tests, ODIs, T20s, FC.. (List A record is comparable). Nasir's technique is definitely inferior to Ryads but the guy covers it up with guts and the ability to deliver during pressure situations. Right now he is completely out of form. We must do everything we can to not lose this player. Hope the coaches find a way to bring him back to form.

jeesh
September 22, 2014, 12:03 AM
Nothing significantly wrong with his technique. He can manage. Shot selection, approach to building an innings is issue.

This is where Hathurusingha is supposed to have some ability, as he had experience in turning around players careers in Sri Lanka. Our players are obviously more stubborn and will be unwilling to listen, learn and adapt. But still it ll be one of the coach's biggest tests.

Mentioned this in another post, Nasir needs to back his strength which is his athleticism. Pick one,s two's, convert the odd two to three by pressurizing the fielders. Yet time and time again, he tries gets bogged down due to his inability to score and then edges to keeper by trying to hit the ball hard or lofts one in the air. Once he gets to 25-30, his eye is in, boundaries will come easier.

This once again is due to lack of intelligence or a good cricketing brain. Every player must be able to assess his own strength and weakness and play according to those.

dark mage
September 22, 2014, 01:12 AM
riyad's test average of under 20 batting 1-7 from 18 innings (10 matches) supports your point well. also nasir averages 38 in BD, 49 in SL and 58 in zimbabwe, 2 bad matches in WI is exactly that, just 2 bad matches out of 16.

This only supports what I said, in Sri Lanka, we played on a very flat track which didn't test the players technique, all you needed was patience and right temperament to score runs and Zimbawean pacers just weren't fast enough. I mean, you can see and have an off-form Tamim who ncan still somehow hang around due to his defensive techniques but can you say the same about Imrul? An off-form Mominul can still be trusted because of his defensive techniques but can the same be said about Anamul? Nasiir and Anamul have the same problems, they both have adequate technique for ODIs but their flaws will be exploited in Tests. There are some things that can't be overcome with guts alone.

I am an engineer but I can't do the work of a neurosurgeon and perform a surgery with my guts.

Look mate, I love Nasir and I don't really like Riyad, as I dislike his sissy attitude. I mean how can I forget the Nasir who played such awesome innings under pressure in the Asia Cup, his devil-may-care attitude was refreshing but at a certain stage when opponents start to notice you more, they will plan for exploiting your weaknesses. I mean look how the English bowlers tried to find Tamim's weaknesses but the only thing they could come up with was his impatience. Like I have a feeling Mominul is weak on his legs and the on-side but phenomenal on the off-side, however, I have faith in the kid to work on his flaws.

For the record I am against dropping Nasir but he needs to work a lot on his technique and the same goes for Anamul

Jadukor
September 22, 2014, 01:21 AM
This only supports what I said, in Sri Lanka, we played on a very flat track which didn't test the players technique, all you needed was patience and right temperament to score runs and Zimbawean pacers just weren't fast enough. I mean, you can see and have an off-form Tamim who ncan still somehow hang around due to his defensive techniques but can you say the same about Imrul? An off-form Mominul can still be trusted because of his defensive techniques but can the same be said about Anamul? Nasiir and Anamul have the same problems, they both have adequate technique for ODIs but their flaws will be exploited in Tests. There are some things that can't be overcome with guts alone.

I am an engineer but I can't do the work of a neurosurgeon and perform a surgery with my guts.

I can give you plenty of names of players who did not have the best technique but got the job done. Anamul and Nasir do not have the same problem. Anamul's footwork is non existent. Nasir is not that bad when he is in form. I agree that He scored heavily in the subcontinent but that can be said with most subcontinental players. The problem is our other players fail even on flat tracks so we cannot discredit Nasir's runs because of that.

Gowza
September 22, 2014, 01:41 AM
This only supports what I said, in Sri Lanka, we played on a very flat track which didn't test the players technique, all you needed was patience and right temperament to score runs and Zimbawean pacers just weren't fast enough. I mean, you can see and have an off-form Tamim who ncan still somehow hang around due to his defensive techniques but can you say the same about Imrul? An off-form Mominul can still be trusted because of his defensive techniques but can the same be said about Anamul? Nasiir and Anamul have the same problems, they both have adequate technique for ODIs but their flaws will be exploited in Tests. There are some things that can't be overcome with guts alone.

I am an engineer but I can't do the work of a neurosurgeon and perform a surgery with my guts.

Look mate, I love Nasir and I don't really like Riyad, as I dislike his sissy attitude. I mean how can I forget the Nasir who played such awesome innings under pressure in the Asia Cup, his devil-may-care attitude was refreshing but at a certain stage when opponents start to notice you more, they will plan for exploiting your weaknesses. I mean look how the English bowlers tried to find Tamim's weaknesses but the only thing they could come up with was his impatience. Like I have a feeling Mominul is weak on his legs and the on-side but phenomenal on the off-side, however, I have faith in the kid to work on his flaws.

For the record I am against dropping Nasir but he needs to work a lot on his technique and the same goes for Anamul

Ok well I never said nasir had perfect technique or anything like, in fact I even agreed his technique isn't the best. I don't hate riyad, reckon he's quite talented, just think he's wasted too many chances and it's time to give someone else the opportunity. There are times I've supported riyad and said he should be in the team when others have wanted him out.

Nasir hasn't had enough opportunities in tests to say whether he can or can't make it outside the subcon long term, nasir doing badly in just 2 tests has created an overreaction imo, especially since we already knew he was out of form.

Gowza
September 22, 2014, 01:48 AM
Even players with great technique can fail, technique isn't everything.

BanCricFan
September 22, 2014, 02:46 AM
So now you're insulting me. All my points are valid. Tamim has 4 tons, mushy 3, mominul 3, those players are certainly a distance ahead of riyad, shakib is to and nasir apart from his last 2 test matches has been a very good test match performer with one ton and a number of 90s.

BD does have test standard players, riyad isn't one of them (so far for any decent period). He has potential but so do others and riyad has had his chance, others haven't been as fortunate but some do deserve a chance. BD won't improve if they keep selecting players like riyad who are talented but don't develop e.g. Ash, alok, aftab, saleh, SN, junaid, shahadat and riyad is dangerously close to being grouped with those players.


Young man/woman,

Its all very clear now that you're actually not interested in a discussion. Now you're blatantly employing the ingenious method of going around in circles. Hva er en annen enn den som troll?

The initial discussion involved only Riyad and HOM. Now you're bringing up the issues of Tamim, Mushy or Momin have more tons or they are a better bat than Riyad! Was this part of the initial argument? Why are you derailing this conversation with such red herrings? For the last time and to put your cleverness in its place - The Great Sissy Riyad is a late order bat -which you very conveniently overlook. Therefore, naturally, he will have less tons than any top order. And, WOW! Tamim has a massive FOUR Test tons!

Thats it! I WILL not feed the trolls!

Gowza
September 22, 2014, 02:51 AM
Young man/woman,

Its all very clear now that you're actually not interested in a discussion. Now you're blatantly employing the ingenious method of going around in circles. Hva er en annen enn den som troll?

The initial discussion involved only Riyad and HOM. Now you're bringing up the issues of Tamim, Mushy or Momin have more tons or they are a better bat than Riyad! Was this part of the initial argument? Why are you derailing this conversation with such red herrings? For the last time and to put your cleverness in its place - The Great Sissy Riyad is a late order bat -which you very conveniently overlook. Therefore, naturally, he will have less tons than any top order. And, WOW! Tamim has a massive FOUR Test tons!

Thats it! I WILL not feed the trolls!

You said he's good by BD standards, maybe in talent but I was proving in performance he isn't. As far as being lower down the order, check his stats higher up the order.

Jadukor
September 22, 2014, 02:56 AM
moved to related thread