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shakibrulz
February 10, 2013, 03:19 AM
The guy had been bowling some terrific yorkers, now he's getting smashed around for fun and can't get one in the blockhole to save his life. I'm not talking of the last match (atrocious fielding cost him, but still bowled poorly) but his bowling in general offlate.

And his pace too has been much lower too lately.

Zunaid
February 10, 2013, 03:27 AM
I guess he isn't back to full form after his surgery.

Maysun
February 10, 2013, 04:09 AM
Was never a fan. Look at those stats, only in Bangladesh will he feature in the NT despite having "potential" but not the performance to back it up.

http://i.imgur.com/AI7fdrE.png

Courtesy: Cricinfo

Zunaid
February 10, 2013, 04:28 AM
His ODI stats are not too bad relatively speaking.

Zunaid
February 10, 2013, 04:29 AM
PS: enter Ian, stage left.

shakibrulz
February 10, 2013, 04:59 AM
Stats without context = useless. And for a BD pacer, he's done fairly well I'd say, even with that stat.

Tiger444
February 10, 2013, 10:45 AM
He's coming off a major shoulder surgery. So it takes time to get back in to rhythm. Have to be patient with him and back him.

Also his stats are poor in the longer version but he's a pretty good LOI bowler. Lets take a deeper look at the stats. Against G8 teams, only he and Shafiul have SR's in the 30's out of all our bowlers. Also he's our 4th leading wicket taker in our matches won against the G8 teams. So he plays a big part in our wins against the big teams.

Here are the stats I'm talking about by the way

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=2;filter=advanced;opposition=1;op position=2;opposition=3;opposition=4;opposition=5; opposition=6;opposition=7;opposition=8;orderby=wic kets;result=1;team=25;template=results;type=bowlin g

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=2;filter=advanced;opposition=1;op position=2;opposition=3;opposition=4;opposition=5; opposition=6;opposition=7;opposition=8;orderby=wic kets;team=25;template=results;type=bowling

Jadukor
February 10, 2013, 11:02 AM
We need to understand which bowler is suitable for which format. If you look at Rubel's first class average of 62 then you know in tests he will go for even more runs per wkt at the international level.
His stats suggest he is a decent limited overs bowler and should remain so. We need to identify the leading pacers in FC cricket because that is the better measure of how the bowler will perform in tests... Not BPL and not DPL but NCL. Who currently has better strike rate and average than Rubel in FC cricket? Lets make a list of those guys and isolate two promising ones. There has got to be someone who goes for less than 60 runs per wkt and takes less than 92 balls to get a wkt.

Tiger444
February 10, 2013, 11:14 AM
We need to understand which bowler is suitable for which format. If you look at Rubel's first class average of 62 then you know in tests he will go for even more runs per wkt at the international level.
His stats suggest he is a decent limited overs bowler and should remain so. We need to identify the leading pacers in FC cricket because that is the better measure of how the bowler will perform in tests... Not BPL and not DPL but NCL. Who currently has better strike rate and average than Rubel in FC cricket? Lets make a list of those guys and isolate two promising ones. There has got to be someone who goes for less than 60 runs per wkt and takes less than 92 balls to get a wkt.

Taposh Baisya, Shahadat, and Robiul were the leading wicket takers from the BCL, from the NCL? Mohammad Sharif, Sajedul, and Farhad Reza made the top 15. Now how are those guys doing in the BPL against the best local and international players? Either they don't make the XI or they're getting smacked.

This is the problem we have. The quality of the NCL is just not good enough and these stats are often misleading. This is why in the end we have to work with players that have pure potential. There is a reason why Shafiul, Rubel, and Abul continue to make the national team. If we want to produce better pacers and not have to go through the painful process of seeing them develop through international cricket, then we need better organization and planning of our pacers

Equinox
February 10, 2013, 11:33 AM
^Rubel would dream of having Tapash Baishya's stats in Test cricket. Tapash has 36 wickets off 29 innings. That's more than a wicket an innings. Rubel can't even manage that. He has 21 wickets in 26 innings and goes at over 4/over. No way should he be playing Tests. Even Steyn gets hammered often in T20 and ODI cricket. The three formats must not be conflated. It's a simple idea, if you can't get wickets in FC cricket then for sure you're not gonna get any in Test cricket. That's why for Tests I'd go with the guys performing in FC cricket. At the very least they won't concede more than 5/over every other innings like Rubel and Abul and can play a support role for the spinners.

To be fair to him, I thought he bowled ok in the last match except the last over. He is slowly regaining his rhythm and bowled well in the few games prior to the last one. Still I would not play him in Tests until he can prove that he can get wickets in FC cricket. He can still be a decent ODI bowler and I hope to see the pre-injury Rubel back soon.

Jadukor
February 10, 2013, 11:36 AM
In IPL Steyn gets hammered and the same guy humiliates entire test teams in the longer format. Shorter format wkts are easy to earn because batsman are always going for it. We need an entirely different set of skills to get wkts when batsman are not prepared to chase deliveries. For test bowling we need guys who have decent amount of control and can bowl for long periods according to a particular field setting. We dont need pseudo fast bowlers with lethal grunts or bowler bowling fast but half way down the pitch. We have to accept that with our current resources, at best, the pace attack will provide a supporting role of letting the pressure build and help the spinners get their wkts. I would go with one medium pacer who could swing the new ball and shohag, enamul jr and elias sunny.

al Furqaan
February 10, 2013, 01:23 PM
No one should be judged on T20 because its not cricket.

He's done quite well in ODIs the past few years and against all sides.

Gowza
February 10, 2013, 03:51 PM
he's solid in ODIs and unlike most BD pacers he's actually improved in the 50 over game. as far as test cricket goes i reckon sajidul is worth another crack, dollar has good stats but i'm not sure on him...

Habib
February 10, 2013, 03:57 PM
he's solid in ODIs and unlike most BD pacers he's actually improved in the 50 over game. as far as test cricket goes i reckon sajidul is worth another crack, dollar has good stats but i'm not sure on him...

I remember the last time I saw Sajidul. He looked unfit.
BTW does anyone know whatever happened to Mahmudul Alam Robin? He used to be one of our future prospects.

Gowza
February 10, 2013, 05:11 PM
I remember the last time I saw Sajidul. He looked unfit.
BTW does anyone know whatever happened to Mahmudul Alam Robin? He used to be one of our future prospects.

yeah robin fell of the face of the earth it seems. after he got whacked around playing in national colours he seemed to fade away pretty quickly, i thought we had found ourselves a solid pacer in mahbubul alam. browsing over his cricinfo page and i see he played a t20 les than 2 weeks ago, his last FC matche was in november. actually it says he played a t20 2nd of feb, then the match before that was the FC match in november, then the last time he played before that was in november of 2011. so he's only played a couple of games in the last year and a bit.

btw haven't seen sajidul recently but he looked a good prospect when he reached the national team and he's done pretty well this season.

Eshen
February 10, 2013, 05:35 PM
Robin bowled couple of overs in a BPL match. He looked totally venomless. Rubel-Shafiul are much much better than he is.

Tiger444
February 10, 2013, 05:38 PM
^Rubel would dream of having Tapash Baishya's stats in Test cricket. Tapash has 36 wickets off 29 innings. That's more than a wicket an innings. Rubel can't even manage that. He has 21 wickets in 26 innings and goes at over 4/over. No way should he be playing Tests. Even Steyn gets hammered often in T20 and ODI cricket. The three formats must not be conflated. It's a simple idea, if you can't get wickets in FC cricket then for sure you're not gonna get any in Test cricket. That's why for Tests I'd go with the guys performing in FC cricket. At the very least they won't concede more than 5/over every other innings like Rubel and Abul and can play a support role for the spinners.

To be fair to him, I thought he bowled ok in the last match except the last over. He is slowly regaining his rhythm and bowled well in the few games prior to the last one. Still I would not play him in Tests until he can prove that he can get wickets in FC cricket. He can still be a decent ODI bowler and I hope to see the pre-injury Rubel back soon.

That was Taposh back in the day, and I agree at that time he was better than Rubel in Tests but if you saw him recently, he's not the bowler he once was IMO. He seems like a medium pacer with pretty poor control who'll get hammered at the international arena. Same can be said about Sharif, another guy who did very well in our FC competitions. That's why I'd rather go with Rubel, Shafiul, and Abul rather than the likes of Sharif, Taposh, Farhad and the rest of the domestic bullies because at least the formers have something to work with rather than the latters.

I understand the point that you guys bring up. Tests are a different ball game altogether and different formats bring up different requirements and that's a very valid point but from what I've seen from the domestic bullies in action, I see them getting hammered in Tests more so than the guys we have currently. I'm not judging that by pure statistics but rather my cricket instincts. If you guys want to judge by NCL stats, then fair enough, we'll agree to disagree.

Again I'm not saying Rubel, Shafiul, and Abul are superstars are anything but I believe they're the best we have. I feel that it's just a matter of time until Shafiul and Rubel start converting their forms from ODIs in to Tests. Too early to tell with Abul still. He needs a few more matches under his let until I start judging.

Eshen
February 10, 2013, 05:56 PM
I feel that it's just a matter of time until Shafiul and Rubel start converting their forms from ODIs in to Tests. I agree with most of what you said except this part. With already so many chronic injury problems, I will be happy if Shafi-Rubel continue with their ODI careers. For Tests, we need to groom a set of fitter pacers.

Tiger444
February 10, 2013, 06:25 PM
I agree with most of what you said except this part. With already so many chronic injury problems, I will be happy if Shafi-Rubel continue with their ODI careers. For Tests, we need to groom a set of fitter pacers.

This is why we need to continue to rotate the pacers. I liked what the selectors did last series where they rested Rubel after 2 Tests. We can't expect them to play all formats in 1 trot. If we rest more and use a larger pool of pacers, then this injury bug won't be as much of an issue.

Equinox
February 10, 2013, 06:40 PM
That was Taposh back in the day, and I agree at that time he was better than Rubel in Tests but if you saw him recently, he's not the bowler he once was IMO. He seems like a medium pacer with pretty poor control who'll get hammered at the international arena. Same can be said about Sharif, another guy who did very well in our FC competitions. That's why I'd rather go with Rubel, Shafiul, and Abul rather than the likes of Sharif, Taposh, Farhad and the rest of the domestic bullies because at least the formers have something to work with rather than the latters.

I understand the point that you guys bring up. Tests are a different ball game altogether and different formats bring up different requirements and that's a very valid point but from what I've seen from the domestic bullies in action, I see them getting hammered in Tests more so than the guys we have currently. I'm not judging that by pure statistics but rather my cricket instincts. If you guys want to judge by NCL stats, then fair enough, we'll agree to disagree.

Again I'm not saying Rubel, Shafiul, and Abul are superstars are anything but I believe they're the best we have. I feel that it's just a matter of time until Shafiul and Rubel start converting their forms from ODIs in to Tests. Too early to tell with Abul still. He needs a few more matches under his let until I start judging.
Shafiul I don't have an issue with. He has a decent FC average and can keep things tight which Rubel and Abul are incapable of doing. I don't exactly want the likes of Tapash, Sharif and co back either. Maybe Tapash can play a few FC games for the A team. I think Nazmul should be given more opportunities in Tests. However, my main issue is with the likes of Rubel and Abul who have continuously failed in FC cricket being given chances after chances in Tests simply because they have pace or 'potential', which is pretty much the same thing according to the selectors.

Gowza
February 10, 2013, 06:51 PM
honestly i think at current the pool of pacers for the national team should be mash, shafiul, rubel, nazmul, abul, sajidul, alauddin and taskin.

Eshen
February 10, 2013, 06:53 PM
Judging by FC stats alone, Naz seems to do a better job in keeping things tight and take a wicket every now and then, than Rubel does.

Rubel's bowling averages
<TABLE class=engineTable><THEAD><TR class=head><TH class=left title="class name" noWrap></TH><TH title="matches played" noWrap>Mat</TH><TH title="innings bowled in" noWrap>Inns</TH><TH title="balls bowled" noWrap>Balls</TH><TH title="runs conceded" noWrap>Runs</TH><TH title="wickets taken" noWrap>Wkts</TH><TH title="best innings bowling" noWrap>BBI</TH><TH title="best match bowling" noWrap>BBM</TH><TH title="bowling average" noWrap>Ave</TH><TH title="economy rate" noWrap>Econ</TH><TH title="bowling strike rate" noWrap>SR</TH><TH title="four wkts in an inns" noWrap>4w</TH><TH title="five wkts in an inns" noWrap>5w</TH><TH title="ten wkts in a match" noWrap>10</TH></TR></THEAD><TBODY><TR class=data1><TD class=left noWrap>Tests</TD><TD noWrap>14</TD><TD noWrap>26</TD><TD noWrap>2442</TD><TD noWrap>1657</TD><TD noWrap>21</TD><TD noWrap>5/166</TD><TD noWrap>5/210</TD><TD noWrap>78.90</TD><TD noWrap>4.07</TD><TD noWrap>116.2</TD><TD noWrap>0</TD><TD noWrap>1</TD><TD noWrap>0</TD></TR><TR class=data1><TD class=left noWrap>ODIs</TD><TD noWrap>38</TD><TD noWrap>38</TD><TD noWrap>1753</TD><TD noWrap>1615</TD><TD noWrap>48</TD><TD noWrap>4/25</TD><TD noWrap>4/25</TD><TD noWrap>33.64</TD><TD noWrap>5.52</TD><TD noWrap>36.5</TD><TD noWrap>4</TD><TD noWrap>0</TD><TD noWrap>0</TD></TR><TR class=data1><TD class=left noWrap>T20Is</TD><TD noWrap>6</TD><TD noWrap>6</TD><TD noWrap>122</TD><TD noWrap>205</TD><TD noWrap>5</TD><TD noWrap>2/63</TD><TD noWrap>2/63</TD><TD noWrap>41.00</TD><TD noWrap>10.08</TD><TD noWrap>24.4</TD><TD noWrap>0</TD><TD noWrap>0</TD><TD noWrap>0</TD></TR><TR class=data1><TD class=left noWrap>First-class</TD><TD noWrap>29</TD><TD noWrap>52</TD><TD noWrap>4396</TD><TD noWrap>2985</TD><TD noWrap>48</TD><TD noWrap>5/60</TD><TD noWrap>6/85</TD><TD noWrap>62.18</TD><TD noWrap>4.07</TD><TD noWrap>91.5</TD><TD noWrap>0</TD><TD noWrap>2</TD><TD noWrap>0</TD></TR><TR class=data1><TD class=left noWrap>List A</TD><TD noWrap>53</TD><TD noWrap>52</TD><TD noWrap>2483</TD><TD noWrap>2127</TD><TD noWrap>75</TD><TD noWrap>4/22</TD><TD noWrap>4/22</TD><TD noWrap>28.36</TD><TD noWrap>5.13</TD><TD noWrap>33.1</TD><TD noWrap>5</TD><TD noWrap>0</TD><TD noWrap>0</TD></TR><TR class=data1><TD class=left noWrap>Twenty20</TD><TD noWrap>19</TD><TD noWrap>19</TD><TD noWrap>354</TD><TD noWrap>498</TD><TD noWrap>20</TD><TD noWrap>5/32</TD><TD noWrap>5/32</TD><TD noWrap>24.90</TD><TD noWrap>8.44</TD><TD noWrap>17.7</TD><TD noWrap>0</TD><TD noWrap>1</TD><TD noWrap>0</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Nazmul's bowling averages
<TABLE class=engineTable><THEAD><TR class=head><TH class=left title="class name" noWrap></TH><TH title="matches played" noWrap>Mat</TH><TH title="innings bowled in" noWrap>Inns</TH><TH title="balls bowled" noWrap>Balls</TH><TH title="runs conceded" noWrap>Runs</TH><TH title="wickets taken" noWrap>Wkts</TH><TH title="best innings bowling" noWrap>BBI</TH><TH title="best match bowling" noWrap>BBM</TH><TH title="bowling average" noWrap>Ave</TH><TH title="economy rate" noWrap>Econ</TH><TH title="bowling strike rate" noWrap>SR</TH><TH title="four wkts in an inns" noWrap>4w</TH><TH title="five wkts in an inns" noWrap>5w</TH><TH title="ten wkts in a match" noWrap>10</TH></TR></THEAD><TBODY><TR class=data1><TD class=left noWrap>Tests</TD><TD noWrap>2</TD><TD noWrap>3</TD><TD noWrap>329</TD><TD noWrap>194</TD><TD noWrap>5</TD><TD noWrap>2/61</TD><TD noWrap>3/80</TD><TD noWrap>38.80</TD><TD noWrap>3.53</TD><TD noWrap>65.8</TD><TD noWrap>0</TD><TD noWrap>0</TD><TD noWrap>0</TD></TR><TR class=data1><TD class=left noWrap>ODIs</TD><TD noWrap>38</TD><TD noWrap>37</TD><TD noWrap>1649</TD><TD noWrap>1386</TD><TD noWrap>44</TD><TD noWrap>4/40</TD><TD noWrap>4/40</TD><TD noWrap>31.50</TD><TD noWrap>5.04</TD><TD noWrap>37.4</TD><TD noWrap>1</TD><TD noWrap>0</TD><TD noWrap>0</TD></TR><TR class=data1><TD class=left noWrap>T20Is</TD><TD noWrap>4</TD><TD noWrap>4</TD><TD noWrap>42</TD><TD noWrap>67</TD><TD noWrap>1</TD><TD noWrap>1/15</TD><TD noWrap>1/15</TD><TD noWrap>67.00</TD><TD noWrap>9.57</TD><TD noWrap>42.0</TD><TD noWrap>0</TD><TD noWrap>0</TD><TD noWrap>0</TD></TR><TR class=data1><TD class=left noWrap>First-class</TD><TD noWrap>37</TD><TD noWrap></TD><TD noWrap>4796</TD><TD noWrap>2234</TD><TD noWrap>80</TD><TD noWrap>5/30</TD><TD noWrap></TD><TD noWrap>27.92</TD><TD noWrap>2.79</TD><TD noWrap>59.9</TD><TD noWrap>0</TD><TD noWrap>2</TD><TD noWrap>0</TD></TR><TR class=data1><TD class=left noWrap>List A</TD><TD noWrap>62</TD><TD noWrap></TD><TD noWrap>2669</TD><TD noWrap>2129</TD><TD noWrap>69</TD><TD noWrap>4/40</TD><TD noWrap>4/40</TD><TD noWrap>30.85</TD><TD noWrap>4.78</TD><TD noWrap>38.6</TD><TD noWrap>1</TD><TD noWrap>0</TD><TD noWrap>0</TD></TR><TR class=data1><TD class=left noWrap>Twenty20</TD><TD noWrap>15</TD><TD noWrap>15</TD><TD noWrap>240</TD><TD noWrap>365</TD><TD noWrap>10</TD><TD noWrap>2/21</TD><TD noWrap>2/21</TD><TD noWrap>36.50</TD><TD noWrap>9.12</TD><TD noWrap>24.0</TD><TD noWrap>0</TD><TD noWrap>0</TD><TD noWrap>0</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Tiger444
February 10, 2013, 06:55 PM
Shafiul I don't have an issue with. He has a decent FC average and can keep things tight which Rubel and Abul are incapable of doing. I don't exactly want the likes of Tapash, Sharif and co back either. Maybe Tapash can play a few FC games for the A team. I think Nazmul should be given more opportunities in Tests. However, my main issue is with the likes of Rubel and Abul who have continuously failed in FC cricket being given chances after chances in Tests simply because they have pace or 'potential', which is pretty much the same thing according to the selectors.

Not the most ideal situation is it? I agree that the ideal system is to pick players who performed the best in domestics. That's the system in places like England and Australia. Problem is in BD, our system isn't set up like other countries. This is why we end up having to pick players with pure potential from not only pacers but batsmen as well. Until and unless we make our FC system more competitive, we'll continue to see players being picked on pure potential.

Gowza
February 10, 2013, 06:58 PM
Not the most ideal situation is it? I agree that the ideal system is to pick players who performed the best in domestics. That's the system in places like England and Australia. Problem is in BD, our system isn't set up like other countries. This is why we end up having to pick players with pure potential from not only pacers but batsmen as well. Until and unless we make our FC system more competitive, we'll continue to see players being picked on pure potential.

this is true, even moreso with pacers than any other type of cricketer. there are a good number of BD pacers with amazing domestic FC stats but when they're given ago in the test arena they fall very short. the batting is starting to come about, we can start to trust domestic batting performances more than we use to be able to, but for pacers it's still not there yet.

Tiger444
February 10, 2013, 06:59 PM
this is true, even moreso with pacers than any other type of cricketer. there are a good number of BD pacers with amazing domestic FC stats but when they're given ago in the test arena they fall very short. the batting is starting to come about, we can start to trust domestic batting performances more than we use to be able to, but for pacers it's still not there yet.

Yes and that's exactly the point I've been trying to make. Thanks Gowza

Eshen
February 10, 2013, 07:02 PM
With SR 116 in Test, 91 in FC, you can't justify any hypothesis with Rubel, for a place in the Test team. He should be kept out of the Test team even more now as he continues to struggle with his shoulder injury.

Tiger444
February 10, 2013, 07:14 PM
^but who else to put? I agree Nazmul should be there in the set up but it's not like we have class pacers just lying around. Also Rubel bowled pretty badly in the 1st innings of the Dhaka Test but in the 2nd innings and in the Khulna Test he bowled very well I thought.

Eshen
February 10, 2013, 07:29 PM
^but who else to put? I agree Nazmul should be there in the set up but it's not like we have class pacers just lying around. Also Rubel bowled pretty badly in the 1st innings of the Dhaka Test but in the 2nd innings and in the Khulna Test he bowled very well I thought.If he were fully fit, I would still consider him. But at this point, neither him, nor Shafi has fitness for the longer format. Abul with a FC SR of 130 does not look like a good option either. At this point, Naz is the only decent pacer we are left with, for Tests (unless you want to consider gazakhor Rajib).

Tiger444
February 10, 2013, 07:40 PM
If he were fully fit, I would still consider him. But at this point, neither him, nor Shafi has fitness for the longer format. Abul with a FC SR of 130 does not look like a good option either. At this point, Naz is the only decent pacer we are left with, for Tests (unless you want to consider gazakhor Rajib).

Nope Rajib should not in consideration. He's already had so many chances and yet he still bowls more immaturely than the likes of Shafiul and Rubel. Time to cut him off. Our pace situation is pretty sad which is why we still struggle to take 20 wickets

Eshen
February 10, 2013, 07:46 PM
Yeah, it's a sad situation. At this point, we don't have much of an option other than going with three spinners and one medium pacer (like how India attack used to be back in the time).

Considering Shak won't be fit to bowl long spells, even if he is included in the Test team, imo, we should go with Naz-Sunny-Sohag-Enamul.

Gowza
February 10, 2013, 09:17 PM
nazmul should be given a decent run, rubel did do pretty well in the last series despite stats so i think he should get at least one more series to see what he can do. leave abul out of it atm for mine, have a look at sajidul, allaudin, the kamrul's and dollar. shafiul imo shouldn't be forgotten, he's been poor in tests so far but by BD standards has a reasonable ODI record (average 34.53, strike rate 35) and his FC record is ok averaging 32.48. i mean he by no means has a great FC record and people can say all they want ODIs are different to tests, i know this, but i also know that shafiul's ODI record is better than most BD pacers and he's bowling against quality batsmen even if they take more risks.

but i'd probably go with nazmul and rubel, and the 3rd pacer spot in the squad can go to one of the promising domestic pacers who actually has a decent record i.e. sajidul, allaudin, kamrul's, dollar.

Gowza
February 10, 2013, 09:35 PM
i'd still be picking mash, nazmul and rubel as our pacers for ODIs. i really don't think it matters too much for tests and i think that's why we select on potential, at least the guy with potential has a chance to develop into what he could be. but i mean going with the ones with the highest ceiling of potential hasn't worked, maybe it is time to go for the ones with not quite as much potential but better records.

let's look at the prospects i mentioned in earlier posts.

kamrul islam: average 33 (not great, not horrible), strike rate 53 (good strike rate).
kazi kamrul: average 28, strike rate 55
sajidul: average 27 (pretty much), strike rate 52
dollar: average 25, strike rate 44 (really good average and strike rate)
alauddin: average 31, strike rate 55

they all bowl pretty good pace, they've all got decent to really good FC records and they've all been earmarked at one time or another through their careers as talent prospects.

btw as much as i hate to say this shahadat's test average of 50 with 72 strike rate looks really good compared to rubel and shafiul. it's quite tempting to take nazmul and pick someone from domestics to partner him.

Jadukor
February 10, 2013, 09:37 PM
I have given up on seeing Nazmul in the Test 11. The coaching setup simply do not rate him. They would go for Abul over Naz even if Abul was playing with one leg.

The sad thing about this year's BPL is the state of our pace bowling. Shapoor Zadran seems like a legendary bowler compared to our pacers. I don't know what is being done to develop more pace bowlers but keeping in mind that the WC 2015 is in Australia, we better think quickly and do something about it.

shakibrulz
February 10, 2013, 10:18 PM
I have given up on seeing Nazmul in the Test 11. The coaching setup simply do not rate him. They would go for Abul over Naz even if Abul was playing with one leg.

The sad thing about this year's BPL is the state of our pace bowling. Shapoor Zadran seems like a legendary bowler compared to our pacers. I don't know what is being done to develop more pace bowlers but keeping in mind that the WC 2015 is in Australia, we better think quickly and do something about it.
It's going to hurt you MUCH more in tests, not ODIs. You need decent wicket taking bowlers in tests. I agree on Nazmul, must for tests.

Jadukor
February 10, 2013, 11:00 PM
It's going to hurt you MUCH more in tests, not ODIs. You need decent wicket taking bowlers in tests. I agree on Nazmul, must for tests.

Define much more
at the moment the current pick (Rubel) averages a staggering 79 runs per wicket and goes wicket less for 116 balls (roughly 20 overs) with an economy of 4 per over
There isn't much room to do worse than this imo

BengaliPagol
February 11, 2013, 03:24 AM
Drop Rubel from tests and bring Mashrafe back. Mashrafe dont think about getting injured, think about the passion of playing test cricket!

shakibrulz
February 19, 2013, 11:05 PM
Looked good in the finals. He is the only BD bowler I have seen who uses reverse swing well. Yet somehow has the worst stats in tests.

Zeeshan
February 20, 2013, 02:32 AM
Ufff.....just when I thought he was out...






YOU PULL HIM RIGHT BACK IN!!!!!! :hairpull:

Tiger Manc
February 20, 2013, 03:23 PM
Bowled well in the final. He was actually unfortunate not to pick up 6 wickets. Bowled a beautiful swinging yorker to Pollard and an even better delivery to dismiss Anamul. I hope he's starting to regain his form for the SL series.

RazabQ
February 20, 2013, 04:35 PM
guys, Rubel has also been tremendously unlucky in Tests. He's had a bunch of dropped catches and LBWs not given. He's better with the older ball.
With Rajib now consigned to SRK and gaja country it's gotta be Rubel and Shafi for Tests unless Mash is ready for it.

Tiger444
February 20, 2013, 04:53 PM
guys, Rubel has also been tremendously unlucky in Tests. He's had a bunch of dropped catches and LBWs not given. He's better with the older ball.
With Rajib now consigned to SRK and gaja country it's gotta be Rubel and Shafi for Tests unless Mash is ready for it.

Good point there Razab bhai. Rubel's actually looked better than stats indicate. When looking at stats, it looks like Shahadat is so much better than Rubel but that hasnt been the case at all. Rubel is putting pressure on batsmen and forcing chances but he's had some bad luck. Agree with you, Rubel and Shafiul should be our Test pacers.

Holden
February 20, 2013, 06:06 PM
There's a reason Shahadat's stats are better; he's taken four 5 wicket hauls and two 4 wicket hauls compared to Rubel's one 5 wicket haul. Back in the day Shahadat was a promising fast bowler but nowadays he's just as much a liability as Rubel.
Which bowlers don't have "a bunch of dropped catches and LBWs not given" and just how much bad luck does a bowler need to be averaging a tad under 80 after 14 Tests?

Rubel was more than decent in ODIs before his injury, he had variation of pace and a good yorker, he has looked shaky after coming back from his shoulder injury but I would stick with him in ODIs.
However he has very rarely looked like a Test bowler, he has the occasional good spells of bowling but these usually come sandwiched between bad spells.
In Test cricket, the first 15 overs with the new ball are crucial (even on the dead Bangladeshi pitches). We have seen opposition bowlers dismantle Bangladesh's batting line-up in these overs, whilst when Bangladesh are bowling, the pacers look hopeless.
To get full use of the new ball you have to bowl full to get late movement, but I don't think Rubel's action will utilise the new ball. His natural length looks to be back of a length, and if I'm not mistaken he bowls with a scrambled seam. I agree that his action is better suited for reverse swing and he has on occasion bowled good spells of reverse, so at best, he could be used as the third pacer to try and get some reverse swing when the ball is getting old.
So we have to find bowlers who are capable of bowling with the new ball and therein lies the problem, so few if any Bangladeshi pacers have this skill. The situation is getting pretty desperate for Bangladesh. I don't think Mashrafe will be able to play Tests again otherwise he would have been an obvious option.
I would go with Nazmul Hossain, yes, he has no pace, I think everyone is aware of that, but I think he is capable of getting movement with the new ball like he did in the Test against Pakistan, and if he consistently bowls like that then he will get wickets just like he did in that game:-

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/538073.html

He will on occasion get blasted by the opposition but I think he is worth the risk as top order wickets are precious and vital to win Tests. Also Vernon Philander has shown that pace isn't everything, control and consistency come into it too (P.S. I'm not comparing Nazmul to Philander!).

Taskin is the new hope and I pray he makes it as he looks special, I would get him into the national squad now even if he is just to be used as a net bowler as this will help him integrate into the team.

I would also keep persisting with Shafiul as I feel he could be taught to bowl with the new ball, and also look at someone like Allaudin Babu as he could be a possible all-rounder.

Gowza
February 20, 2013, 10:19 PM
There's a reason Shahadat's stats are better; he's taken four 5 wicket hauls and two 4 wicket hauls compared to Rubel's one 5 wicket haul. Back in the day Shahadat was a promising fast bowler but nowadays he's just as much a liability as Rubel.
Which bowlers don't have "a bunch of dropped catches and LBWs not given" and just how much bad luck does a bowler need to be averaging a tad under 80 after 14 Tests?

Rubel was more than decent in ODIs before his injury, he had variation of pace and a good yorker, he has looked shaky after coming back from his shoulder injury but I would stick with him in ODIs.
However he has very rarely looked like a Test bowler, he has the occasional good spells of bowling but these usually come sandwiched between bad spells.
In Test cricket, the first 15 overs with the new ball are crucial (even on the dead Bangladeshi pitches). We have seen opposition bowlers dismantle Bangladesh's batting line-up in these overs, whilst when Bangladesh are bowling, the pacers look hopeless.
To get full use of the new ball you have to bowl full to get late movement, but I don't think Rubel's action will utilise the new ball. His natural length looks to be back of a length, and if I'm not mistaken he bowls with a scrambled seam. I agree that his action is better suited for reverse swing and he has on occasion bowled good spells of reverse, so at best, he could be used as the third pacer to try and get some reverse swing when the ball is getting old.
So we have to find bowlers who are capable of bowling with the new ball and therein lies the problem, so few if any Bangladeshi pacers have this skill. The situation is getting pretty desperate for Bangladesh. I don't think Mashrafe will be able to play Tests again otherwise he would have been an obvious option.
I would go with Nazmul Hossain, yes, he has no pace, I think everyone is aware of that, but I think he is capable of getting movement with the new ball like he did in the Test against Pakistan, and if he consistently bowls like that then he will get wickets just like he did in that game:-

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/538073.html

He will on occasion get blasted by the opposition but I think he is worth the risk as top order wickets are precious and vital to win Tests. Also Vernon Philander has shown that pace isn't everything, control and consistency come into it too (P.S. I'm not comparing Nazmul to Philander!).

Taskin is the new hope and I pray he makes it as he looks special, I would get him into the national squad now even if he is just to be used as a net bowler as this will help him integrate into the team.

I would also keep persisting with Shafiul as I feel he could be taught to bowl with the new ball, and also look at someone like Allaudin Babu as he could be a possible all-rounder.

haven't seen sajidul bowl lately but i know he use to move the ball both ways at decent pace and he's been bowling well this season so i think he's someone to look at as well.

Maysun
February 21, 2013, 01:59 AM
Good post, Holden!

Jadukor
February 21, 2013, 02:49 AM
So we have to find bowlers who are capable of bowling with the new ball and therein lies the problem, so few if any Bangladeshi pacers have this skill. The situation is getting pretty desperate for Bangladesh. I don't think Mashrafe will be able to play Tests again otherwise he would have been an obvious option.
I would go with Nazmul Hossain, yes, he has no pace, I think everyone is aware of that, but I think he is capable of getting movement with the new ball like he did in the Test against Pakistan, and if he consistently bowls like that then he will get wickets just like he did in that game:-

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/538073.html

He will on occasion get blasted by the opposition but I think he is worth the risk as top order wickets are precious and vital to win Tests. Also Vernon Philander has shown that pace isn't everything, control and consistency come into it too (P.S. I'm not comparing Nazmul to Philander!).


Totally agree on the assessment regarding Nazmul. He moves it both ways and could take up the role Sayed Rasel used to play for us with the new ball.

Abid_Khan
February 21, 2013, 03:29 AM
^ Where is Syed Rasel these days?

BD_TigerZ
February 21, 2013, 05:03 AM
Stop bowling length deliveries in t20 nd death overs in general..

shakibrulz
February 21, 2013, 06:26 AM
I'm with Raz on this one. Rubel has been terribly unlucky, he is far better a bowler than his average would indicate. Although he has to start performing and fast.

Tiger444
February 21, 2013, 10:24 AM
I agree with Holden about the fact that Nazmul should be given chances. It's not all about pace, he can get seam movement and then you throw in the fact that he's accurate and he can give opposition trouble. That SL game was an example of that. Look at how Junaid Khan and Bhuvneshwar Kumar did in the India/Pak series. Not the paciest of bowlers but the way they got the ball to move off the pitch, that was more than enough to get them wickets. So Nazmul should be getting more chances although I have doubts that selectors will pick him.