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View Full Version : ICC seriously considers 2 divisions,7/5 split.


brockley
February 25, 2016, 08:17 PM
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/feb/25/icc-test-cricket-two-divisions-shake-up

Night_wolf
February 25, 2016, 08:22 PM
I am happy with this if the law is fair to every team. i dont want to see the idea getting revamp if India/Aus/Eng faces relegation

brockley
February 25, 2016, 08:26 PM
I guess we are not playing you anyway.:floor:

al Furqaan
February 25, 2016, 08:59 PM
I am happy with this if the law is fair to every team. i dont want to see the idea getting revamp if India/Aus/Eng faces relegation

Wont be fair. Because of Ashes, India-AUS rivalry even if the big 3 get demoted, they will still be playing most of their games in D1. So what is the point of having separate divisions?

Now this article has said the league will only take 5 months time. Will be more like 6. 2 more months for IPL. That leaves 16 months in 2 years for the FTP. If D2 teams get adequate fixtures against D1 sides, its an OK proposal. But still stupid because again what was the point of having seperate divisions.

But we are only playing WI, ZIM, AFG, IRE, its a terrible system for us. BCB will be broke.

brockley
February 25, 2016, 10:18 PM
Depends if the 2nd division countries get full funding or part funding.
Life of course would go on.

NoName
February 25, 2016, 10:24 PM
Usually when we have a test series with any team there is always an ODI and t20 series to go with it. Under this system, like AF has pointed out, we will be only playing WI, Zim, AFG and IRE, which leaves us with the question; how many big name teams will tour us, or invite us just for an ODI series? We won't be making much revenues playing with the second-tier teams like us if other big name teams won't even tour/invite us for LOIs

Night_wolf
February 25, 2016, 10:26 PM
Usually when we have a test series with any team there is always an ODI and t20 series to go with it. Under this system, like AF has pointed out, we will be only playing WI, Zim, AFG and IRE, how many big name teams will tour us, or invite us just for an ODI series? We won't be making much revenues playing with the second-tier teams like us if other teams won't even tour/invite us for LOIs

Right, I wasn't thinking that way, I thought about tests only. in tests we deserve to be in Div 2, but with our current resurrection in ODIs its unfair. all of our advancements will go backwards

Tigers_eye
February 25, 2016, 10:44 PM
Plans for one-day international and Twenty20 cricket are less advanced in terms of detail, although the ICC is keen to restructure both formats. One option being discussed for ODI cricket is to have two leagues of six, forming the basis of qualification for the World Cup; three leagues of four is also being considered.I look forward to this. If England comes to BD this year, the head to head would determine who #6 would be. England going to the second tier....lol.

Night_wolf
February 25, 2016, 10:46 PM
I look forward to this. If England comes to BD this year, the head to head would determine who #6 would be. England going to the second tier....lol.

funny..why does test cricket division one has 7 and ODI has 6?, did we just made it G6 from G8 by achieving number 7 in ODI?

Tigers_eye
February 25, 2016, 11:08 PM
funny..why does test cricket division one has 7 and ODI has 6?, did we just made it G6 from G8 by achieving number 7 in ODI?Soon it would be top 5. Just wait and see. :lol:

Vepu
February 26, 2016, 12:07 AM
I guess we are not playing you anyway.:floor:

Congratulations. I hope now you can breath easy

al Furqaan
February 26, 2016, 01:45 AM
funny..why does test cricket division one has 7 and ODI has 6?, did we just made it G6 from G8 by achieving number 7 in ODI?

Yup. Now imagine if we ever get #1. they will say 2-8 form the top tier with 1 required to play minnows for development.

WarWolf
February 26, 2016, 02:01 AM
I guess we are not playing you anyway.:floor:

You should party and dance. An Aussie team has thousands lives. This is another chance for you guys to avoid a great trashing from us.

Kohli_Sox
February 26, 2016, 02:33 AM
We have been crushing Zimbabwe in tests. No reason to think we won't crush Afghanistan, Ireland etc. It will be between WI and Bangladesh for the promotion to tier 1. I think we will beat West Indies. I am willing to take this chance and it's our best bet to get more games against top opposition. Yes it will take 2 years but pretty sure we will get promoted. Bring it on.

horizon
February 26, 2016, 03:46 AM
I look forward to this. If England comes to BD this year, the head to head would determine who #6 would be. England going to the second tier....lol.

Not that difficult. This is for WC qualification purpose only. So, top 6 plays automatically and bottom 6 are in a qualifier, along with may be 2-4 more teams from lower level. England will play in qualifier. I don't see a reason ECB will oppose to that. They are not losing money.
Also, ranking system may change to take care of home and away distribution.

horizon
February 26, 2016, 04:05 AM
Here's the summary I get -
1) Ireland to get Test status (I guess along with permanent membership, if India gives up share)
2) 7+5 tiers in test, 6+6 months for each, leaving aside IPL only 4-5 months of window to play others or other tournaments/domestic matches. It will be home-away in two year cycle - i.e. this year home means next year away.
3) Relegation and promotion between division two and the Intercontinental Cup would also be in place.
4) ODIs could have 6+6 teams or 4x3 teams in tiers. Top half to get automatic WC qualification, bottom half to play in qualifiers.
5) The automatic qualification of each full member nation to world events would also end, i.e. bottom ranked full members (Zimbabwe) will play in qualifiers.
6) Convincing full members to vote for such reforms will be “a massive job” - I agree.
7) ICC will pay for "less-glamorous" series. This is where it depends on money-back from BCCI.
8) ICC reviewing Olympics status.
9) Proposal to have T20 WC every 2 years and use the extra money to solely for cricket development and not profit-sharing among boards. The rights for T20 WC could be sold independently to separate fundings.

horizon
February 26, 2016, 04:11 AM
Implications for Bangladesh -
1) Not sure about the status of India tour, currently India tours once in 4 years. This will be a big money loss on broadcasting rights.
2) More away Test and ODIs. Tests could be against Afghanistan/Zimbabwe but pitch/conditions could make it interesting in away conditions.
3) May play T20 WC qualifiers.
4) Qualify for Olympics :) with a medal hope
5) Money probably won't change, at least for now.

Donal C
February 26, 2016, 09:51 AM
Not a chance in hell of this happening.

al Furqaan
February 26, 2016, 12:38 PM
Not a chance in hell of this happening.

Lets hope so. Idea is gayer than a guy asking his wife to peg him.

12 test nations should be in 1 division.

brockley
February 26, 2016, 02:24 PM
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/feb/26/ireland-icc-two-division-test
Ireland backs the idea.
I back the idea,you can grow test cricket by increasing the sides in 2nd division cricket.
5 for now,6 or 7 down the line.
It will be competitive as nations want to be in the first division.
BTW was just kidding on Australia,2017 still on.
Changes not happening to 2019.

anon4567
February 26, 2016, 03:45 PM
This sounds terrible. I bet in the next move they would reveal to us that the Big Three will be exempt from relegation, because think about it it's not hard to slip into the 8th place.

Why not just have 1 big division with 7+5 teams? Wouldn't that be more beneficial for new comers, like Ireland to play test cricket against teams like Australia and SA, rather then being forced to only play WI, Bangladesh, AFG and ZIM.

It would effect BCB and WICB financially as well..

The only people really benefitting here are of course, the Big Three.

If only ICC could learn from FIFA (The structure of the game only, hopefully not the other thing FIFA came under the spotlight for recently ;) )

Mas_UK25
February 26, 2016, 04:22 PM
I agree with 6+6 test format wise.
Div 1
Aus
Ind
Eng
Sa
Pak
NZ

Div2
SL
WI
BD
ZIM
Ireland
Afg
SL, WI, BD even ZIM not miles apart each other TBH, atm, going forward these teams might have slight advantage over other but theres not like a Aus v Zim thing, amongs these sides and there will be good fights more often than pure one sided matches. I think theres not going to be much big differences between these sides. So a groupe of these teams would be more sense.

Make Ire, Afg earn the spots by qualifying round amongst assocites.

horizon
February 26, 2016, 04:26 PM
I agree with 6+6 test format wise.
Div 1
Aus
Ind
Eng
Sa
Pak
NZ

Div2
SL
WI
BD
ZIM
Ireland
Afg
SL, WI, BD even ZIM not miles apart each other TBH, atm, going forward these teams oe might have slight advantage over other but theres not like a Aus v Zim thing, amongs these sides there will be good fights. I think theres not going to be much big differences between these sides. So a groupd of these teams be more sense.

Make Ire, Afg earn the spots by qualifying round amongst assocites.

The idea is to have relegation, which of the six will be relegated? That's why there's seven, one of the five will be up there.

Ireland will get test status and the champion of intercontinental trophy will qualify.

anon4567
February 26, 2016, 05:35 PM
The idea is to have relegation, which of the six will be relegated? That's why there's seven, one of the five will be up there.

Maybe they could have gone #6 in Div 1 will be relegated, replaced by #1 in Div 2. #5 in Div 1 will have to play a Home-Away play-off match against #2 of Div 2.

Same with Div 2, bottom most team loses test status all together, intercontinental cup winner will gain test status. with #5 in Div 2 will have to play-off against runners ups of intercontinental cup. This will give more teams an opportunity to strengthen themselves, and play test cricket.

Sort of like English Football...

I would like that system, but the Big 3 will never let that happen, as even finishing ranked #5 puts them on a chance of relegation, just imagine if England finished #6, there would be no Ashes for 2 years.

brockley
February 26, 2016, 07:42 PM
They'd always fit in an Ashes,big Cash to be made.
West Indies,Bangladesh and Zimbabwe have been always seen as the problem child in tests.A look at Zimbabwe they hardly play a test or 2 in a year,no one wants to play tests against them.
It will be interesting who the 2nd team is,Ireland is travelling well,but the Dutch are 2nd Huh?Afghanistan only 1 win so far.
We have 2 years to go but will be interesting who will be the 2nd side,there no guarentee for Afghanistan.

horizon
February 27, 2016, 11:30 AM
Maybe they could have gone #6 in Div 1 will be relegated, replaced by #1 in Div 2. #5 in Div 1 will have to play a Home-Away play-off match against #2 of Div 2.

Same with Div 2, bottom most team loses test status all together, intercontinental cup winner will gain test status. with #5 in Div 2 will have to play-off against runners ups of intercontinental cup. This will give more teams an opportunity to strengthen themselves, and play test cricket.

Sort of like English Football...

I would like that system, but the Big 3 will never let that happen, as even finishing ranked #5 puts them on a chance of relegation, just imagine if England finished #6, there would be no Ashes for 2 years.

The six month window is left open for everything else including Ashes, in case those get relegated.

brockley
February 27, 2016, 04:08 PM
Ireland and Afghanistan have done much to create a first class system,would be hoped both get through.
Thats if the vote gets the 7 needed votes to go through.Scotland less say,and the Dutch even less,but Scotland and Holland,where Holland is 2nd are the main contenders.
What is good is Ireland and Scotland have a lot of players playing county cricket and county 2nds,but hardly any Dutch players except Ryan Detouschate,Tim Vanderguten and Tommy Cooper.The rest play in the Dutch league.

al Furqaan
February 27, 2016, 06:35 PM
Ireland and Afghanistan have done much to create a first class system,would be hoped both get through.
Thats if the vote gets the 7 needed votes to go through.Scotland less say,and the Dutch even less,but Scotland and Holland,where Holland is 2nd are the main contenders.
What is good is Ireland and Scotland have a lot of players playing county cricket and county 2nds,but hardly any Dutch players except Ryan Detouschate,Tim Vanderguten and Tommy Cooper.The rest play in the Dutch league.

Highly doubt this will go through. This is at best just David Richardson's fantasy. A cricinfo article from october which I posted here said he was asking full members how they wanted the game to be structured. Doubt the bottom 4 proposed a system where they are all threatened by a 2nd division.

brockley
February 27, 2016, 07:24 PM
Bottom 3,Sri Lanka and NZ are safe.
And don't under estimate the power of the BCCI,they did re negotiate the big 3 deal.
I think its on for young and old,they wouldn't leak it if they didn't already have the numbers.

brockley
March 2, 2016, 03:28 PM
Vote in June,lot of horse trading before then.

al Furqaan
March 2, 2016, 03:50 PM
Bottom 3,Sri Lanka and NZ are safe.
And don't under estimate the power of the BCCI,they did re negotiate the big 3 deal.
I think its on for young and old,they wouldn't leak it if they didn't already have the numbers.

It wasn't leaked like last time tho. Its only the guardian. Cricinfo and the ICC site dont have anything. As long as we get as many fixtures with Divison 1 sides its an OK setup esp since Ireland and Afghanistan would get test status. NZ are safe now, but 10 years from now they could be just as mediocre as they were for the previous 80 years. SL could be where the Windies are...Windies too have a few talented players. Especially promotion/relegation meams #7 could lose, especially as quicky as BD is progressing. We may 9th in June, but 2019 what if we are a 6th ranked side? #7 could then get demoted.

Last time the initial proposal had SA, PaK, BD, SL opposed. No team faced relegation excpet Bd and ZIM. This time NZ would be foolish as they could conceivably be relegated. Any of the middling sides, Pak, SL, NZ could be relegated.

Big 3 had radically change the proposal tp get everyones votes. What changed from 2013 to present? Nothing except India gets more money.

al Furqaan
March 2, 2016, 03:52 PM
Its not leak either. It was merely David Richardsons hopes which he first aired back in October on cricinfo. Nothing changed since then. Only now Richardson might bring it up at the meeting but I doubt its been agreed upon.

brockley
March 2, 2016, 09:59 PM
No the word is a vote is on in June,I read today.
It hasn't been agreed upon but is on their next agenda.
and like all things gets rushed.

I think its leaked to the press so its a distinct possibility.
The talk is on the 3/4 forums I attend,and its been brought up for a discussion with authors who write on associate cricket.
So in essence its everywhere.
People leak before news gets out.As said their will be horse trading with the Ecb,CA and Bcci negotiating with all parties involved. The news always gets out via leaks,Cricket Australia leaks stuff all the time to the media to the chagrin of the players involveded.

al Furqaan
March 2, 2016, 11:38 PM
No the word is a vote is on in June,I read today.
It hasn't been agreed upon but is on their next agenda.
and like all things gets rushed.

I think its leaked to the press so its a distinct possibility.
The talk is on the 3/4 forums I attend,and its been brought up for a discussion with authors who write on associate cricket.
So in essence its everywhere.
People leak before news gets out.As said their will be horse trading with the Ecb,CA and Bcci negotiating with all parties involved. The news always gets out via leaks,Cricket Australia leaks stuff all the time to the media to the chagrin of the players involveded.

But that big 3 negotiation means its a useless leak. The 2014 restructuring was going to be radical...only 8 test teams, etc. It got negotiated to where there is little practical difference asides from money.

Same thing is likely to happen here, because the solution is obvious and simple but the ICC or big 3 have refused. They will continue to make crazy proposals every 2 years while changing very little. Thats my prediction.

brockley
March 2, 2016, 11:45 PM
Ok,so you don't think they will buy votes.
To be honest I support a 7-5 split .

al Furqaan
March 3, 2016, 01:26 AM
Ok,so you don't think they will buy votes.
To be honest I support a 7-5 split .

If this is a true story, which it probably is, but you never know with the ICC. But if true, the big 3 will definitely buy votes just like they did in 2014 when it was 8/0.

Then in 2018 they will buy more votes for the new 6/6 plan.

2020 will buy more votes for 5/7 plan.

2022 will buy votes for 4/8 plan.

2024 will buy votes for 3/9 plan.

2026 will buy votes for 2/10 plan.

2028 will decide to make it 0/12.

2030 will realize 0/12 is same as 12/0 and make moves to buy votes to make it 7/5.

2032 will buy votes to make it 6/6.

And on it will go cuz thats how the ICC rolls.

brockley
March 3, 2016, 02:37 AM
Yes ICC never had logic to it.
Look at the ECB and foreigners,and S Africa and Zimbabwe on quotas.
Look at counties not releasing players for international cricket.
Look at the state of the Sri Lankan,West Indies,Pakistan and Zimbabwe boards.
Look at the big 3 and the rejection of the wolf report.
The list goes on.

But I actually like 2 divisions,yes poor Bangladesh,its not fair but maybe a 2nd division way will make them a better side,and they can qualify in 2021 after it starts in 2019.

al Furqaan
March 3, 2016, 03:52 AM
Yes ICC never had logic to it.
Look at the ECB and foreigners,and S Africa and Zimbabwe on quotas.
Look at counties not releasing players for international cricket.
Look at the state of the Sri Lankan,West Indies,Pakistan and Zimbabwe boards.
Look at the big 3 and the rejection of the wolf report.
The list goes on.

But I actually like 2 divisions,yes poor Bangladesh,its not fair but maybe a 2nd division way will make them a better side,and they can qualify in 2021 after it starts in 2019.

Well as long as we can play full fixtures against Division 1 sides, its OK. But if thats the case it makes no sense to have two divisions to begin with. But if there no interdivisional fixtures, Basically cricket will die in the Division 2 teams. I have a source linked to the BCB and he says the BCB isn't even worried about this with the WT20 looming and is also confident our market makes it unlikely we will get demoted.

Who knows what will end up happening, but only playing division 2 sides will be useless for BD.

mij
March 3, 2016, 07:02 AM
Really don't care what ICC is going to do or done as long as we keep winning ICC will have tough time.

brockley
March 3, 2016, 08:11 PM
Yes true.
But Bangladesh has to prove the world wrong in test matches,that includes winning away from home.
With more T20 world cups likely,every 2 years their will be money to fund 2 divisions.
Bangladesh would survive.
Ireland and Afghanistan would prosper.
Windies and Zimbabwe may die when it comes to the 5 day game,sad but aren't they already dying.

tejkuni
March 3, 2016, 10:27 PM
Yes true.
But Bangladesh has to prove the world wrong in test matches,that includes winning away from home.
With more T20 world cups likely,every 2 years their will be money to fund 2 divisions.
Bangladesh would survive.
Ireland and Afghanistan would prosper.
Windies and Zimbabwe may die when it comes to the 5 day game,sad but aren't they already dying.

I am sure like ODI and T20, BD will also be able to prove in Test matches. It took 26 years for NZ to just win the first Test match and about 40 years to become a good Test team. NZ was able to do it because they were allowed to play with the big teams. I think similar to NZ: BD, Ireland, and Afghanistan will also grow as a Test nation. BD has better potential because of it has the market for Test cricket and the Test cricket culture is already there. This is because Bangladesh was a part of a Test playing nation Pakistan for about 25 years. Dhaka hosted Test Matches during 50s, 60s and 70s. So it has almost four generations of cricket fans who follow Test cricket.

brockley
March 3, 2016, 11:04 PM
Look I am not bagging Bangladesh so much.
Its more I like the suggested system.
If Bangladesh we're to prove themselves in division 2 then they would be up.
And whether you like it or not their is history between Ireland,Zimbabwe,Afghanistan even the West Indies and Bangladesh.
People would still follow the games.Moreso the diehards who follow test cricket.
As a brand test cricket is suffering,and maybe 2 divisions rather than a test championship which India opposes anyway,will give some structure to the game.