PDA

View Full Version : Debate: Do You Approve of Gambling? Why? Why Not?


aklemalp
March 1, 2017, 11:38 AM
Just another thread for us to 'debate' in


Personally, I do not play the Lotto games. I've never been to a casino, and would never visit one.
But, what if the jackpot is over a billion or something, then I might give it a try.

I'm not rich enough. I'm get my money the honest way.

I don't think it's taboo though.

Some cultures may be reluctant or not.

Debate....

mufi_02
March 1, 2017, 11:44 AM
gambling is haram (prohibited).

...now take it away you guys. It will be another hit thread coz of religion. I am outta here :D

aklemalp
March 1, 2017, 12:54 PM
Did you know that the first known use of the word gamble (as a noun) was in 1823.

From Middle English word, gammlen variant of gamenen , "to play jest, be merry"

Or possibly gamble is from a derivative of gamel "to play games" (1590s), itself likely a frequentative from game. Originally regarded as a slang word. The unetymological -b- may be from confusion with unrelated gambol (v.). Transitive meaning "to squander in gambling" is from 1808.

Source: http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=gamble

Fazal
March 1, 2017, 01:24 PM
Is there a way to convert Haram (lottery) money to Halal?

aklemalp
March 1, 2017, 01:30 PM
Steve Jobs actually gambled on his Iphone to do well.

aklemalp
March 1, 2017, 01:45 PM
gambling is haram (prohibited).

...now take it away you guys. It will be another hit thread coz of religion. I am outta here :D


I hope not. It lacks the oommph to be a hit thread. Or else everyone would have jumped on the topic already. Two hours since the thread was created and we have not even crossed the 10-replies barrier yet.

Tigers_eye
March 1, 2017, 04:02 PM
Is there a way to convert Haram (lottery) money to Halal?Actually there is. It is just you (who ever won) can't enjoy it.

Give it away (total amount + whatever profits you made via investment of the lottery winnings) to a charity and keep it hush hush (No hashish buying). And Repent sincerely never to play the lottery. :)

Then the money received by the charity becomes Halal. By the way, keep me in your mind while you are searching for charities. :goal:

Tigers_eye
March 1, 2017, 04:08 PM
Gambling makes the poor poorer. Do not gamble. It will ruin you.

Housie is gambling. Playing cards with money is gambling. Any game of chance that involves money and winning is gambling.

SportingBD
March 1, 2017, 04:10 PM
Is it true that their is a mathematical formula/equation that say's you lose more than you win in gambling?

I remember hearing something like that during university, apparently it say you lose more often..

aklemalp
March 1, 2017, 04:16 PM
As along as no money is involved, it is not gambling 'gambling'

I can bet on the next ball that Kagiso bowls will be a yorker. I didn't wager anything. Not gambling in my book.

SportingBD
March 1, 2017, 04:19 PM
The practice of gambling without money, can it influence someone to gamble in the future?

Or a gambler will be a gambler, doesn't need any kind of influence etc?

SportingBD
March 1, 2017, 04:24 PM
Found this: The Effects of Gambling
https://www.problemgambling.ca/EN/AboutGamblingandProblemGambling/Pages/TheEffectsOfGambling.aspx

Some risk from above link:

-My partner is threatening to leave me if I don't stop.
-We fight all the time about my gambling.
-I'm tired of sneaking around, lying and hiding my losses.
-Creditors are hassling me. I'm looking at bankruptcy.

I wonder if there is more risk or reward connected with gambling?

zman
March 1, 2017, 04:31 PM
I gambled with my vote and my candidate lost. Donald gambled and became the leader of the free world

Fazal
March 1, 2017, 07:32 PM
... so gambling is ok if I lose but not ok if I win?

and whats the point of buying a lottery if I have to donate all my (winning) money to donation?

BengaliPagol
March 1, 2017, 09:22 PM
By doing a course in uni about behavioural finance you suddenly learn that betting agencies basically put the odds in such a way that they will always win and you will always lose. Yes you can beat the market here and there but overall the gambler is geared to losing money. And the thing about gambling is you gamble more to try and gain back what you lost. But in terms of casino gambling you can always count cards :D I even heard apparently they change the air levels in casinos in such a way that you stay awake longer which leads you to gambling more. They are legit finding ways to manipulate gamblers. So overall might as well not indulge in something which you are always geared to lose in.

G-man
March 2, 2017, 01:10 AM
heard life is a gamble sometimes. could be wrong...

Tigers_eye
March 2, 2017, 02:53 PM
... so gambling is ok if I lose but not ok if I win?HHS, Who said it was okay to gamble when you lose?

and whats the point of buying a lottery if I have to donate all my (winning) money to donation?
I thought you wanted to make the winning money Halal. :lol: Mr. Hudai beer drinker. Yes, I just reread that thread few days back.

brockley
March 2, 2017, 04:36 PM
Gambling is certainly an issue,I have an occassional bet,but its no issue with me.
Just like I have an ocassional 1 or 2 drinks of scotch.
My problem is online dating,a lot of talk,a lot of money not much action.

aklemalp
March 2, 2017, 05:38 PM
Gambling is certainly an issue,I have an occassional bet,but its no issue with me.
Just like I have an ocassional 1 or 2 drinks of scotch.
My problem is online dating,a lot of talk,a lot of money not much action.

So I deduced that you made that statement about online dating from your own experience?

bujhee kom
March 2, 2017, 06:47 PM
Gambling is certainly an issue,I have an occassional bet,but its no issue with me.
Just like I have an ocassional 1 or 2 drinks of scotch.
My problem is online dating,a lot of talk,a lot of money not much action.

Brockley Miah, for action you have to go to the right place...not online dating!

brockley
March 2, 2017, 07:25 PM
Maybe I don't like pubs.
Yes it is aklmalp.
Church I never met anyone.
Maybe the Indians had it right arranged marriages.

BengaliPagol
March 3, 2017, 04:00 AM
Maybe I don't like pubs.
Yes it is aklmalp.
Church I never met anyone.
Maybe the Indians had it right arranged marriages.

its funny amongst western countries there is a stigma against arranged marriages. In reality how good is it you just get to pick and choose the best looking woman (or women if you roll that way ;)) and if she agrees then boom marriage. Quick, simple, easy and straight to the point :)

brockley
March 3, 2017, 04:17 AM
I am not against it.
I am against child marriages,except discretionary when someone is 17 and both in love,and maybe with a baby on the way.
This is the only exception I can see.

I admit on this website I have had a lot of fun,and have some promising candidates,but some women are loathe to meet up.
I will give it time if it becomes clear then I will try another website.
At least these are local ladies.

I have no problem with marrying someone of another colour but another culture I don't think so.
I had a muslim friend who dated a hindu yes they were very much in love,but both sets of parents were dead set against it.
I internet dated a Chinese girl and a Russian girl,too many headaches.As well as language barriers.

I remember working for Polls company in Australia and a Western guy brought over a Chinese lady,she literally could speak no English.

But back to Arranged marriages thumbs up,In the 18/19th century in many countries you had someone who was the match maker and generally a she would match couples together.It disappeared at the turn of the 20th century.

aklemalp
March 5, 2017, 06:45 PM
^^ brockley bro, I hope everything change for the best and you find that special person to share your love and happiness with. :)

brockley
March 5, 2017, 11:23 PM
Thanks Aklemalp :).
I will see where it leads and have fun on the way.:D
I have a lot of male friends 40+ single its quite common here.
I found single christian girls from going to church 20 years to be stuck up.
I tried the christian singles website and it was full of scammers.:facepalm:
I haven't been scammed on this website and no one has asked for money,so thats a relief.

aklemalp
March 6, 2017, 12:19 AM
Thanks Aklemalp :).
I will see where it leads and have fun on the way.:D
I have a lot of male friends 40+ single its quite common here.
I found single christian girls from going to church 20 years to be stuck up.
I tried the christian singles website and it was full of scammers.:facepalm:
I haven't been scammed on this website and no one has asked for money,so thats a relief.

You're welcome brockley bro :up:

You gotta try something different than online sites. Head on over to the park, feed some of the animals there with bag of morsels or peanuts. Women love that.

It's worth a gamble:)

Bigpage
March 6, 2017, 08:29 AM
it's always destroyed the objects of cricket al times

Fazal
March 6, 2017, 09:19 AM
Is buying stock is a form of gambling?

BengaliPagol
March 6, 2017, 08:02 PM
Is buying stock is a form of gambling?

well from the Islamic perspective from what I have read it isnt because you become a part owner of that company. But i guess if it is gambling in the normal sense is highly debatable. Some argue you can read the markets and etc. so it is not risky compared to gambling on poker machines but at the same time you can say the same thing about texas hold em that you can read the situation at hand and play accordingly. But if you have insider info then it ain't gambling is it he he he he he.

iDumb
March 6, 2017, 08:07 PM
well from the Islamic perspective from what I have read it isnt because you become a part owner of that company. .

Buying stocks is not gambling. When you purchase stocks, you buy a piece of the company. It sounds like gambling for people who lack understanding of the this simple fundementals. Our prophet was a businessman himself. Buying stock is no different than owning your halal store with 3 partners.

However what company you buy into matters. There are funds specially cater to Muslims ie Halal that avoid investing in companies that deal with alcohol, cigarettes, guns, pornography etc.

Quiet some time ago, one of those fund was in the news because it was beating the market quiet handsomely for a while.. apple being their number 1 company.

G-man
March 6, 2017, 08:15 PM
I spoke to a sheikh myself about this.

according to islamic finance, it is deemed haram if there are elements of uncertainty and/or risk and if the business engages in haram things (obviously). It is halal if the share holders make money along with the stock (or company itself). If markets were fully efficient then it would be halal- that's essentially what halal investments or islamic finance is.

Now in the example of running a halal butcher with partnersi s that, if the store makes money, the partners makes money. nothing dodgy, and only risk you assume is the risk of running a business, which is fair.

now if you buy shares in a company, that company could have pathetic balance sheets and never makes, but stock prices go through the roof- enron

now that's just stocks, if you were to discuss derivatives and everything evelse, then from my discissions with sheikhs, they all deem it haram simply because they fail to first udnerstand what derivatives are and what the yare used for. Authoritive figures just look at the compelxity of financial instruments and deem it haram. Now maybe being conservative like that is the way to go, but I beg to differ.

G-man
March 6, 2017, 08:16 PM
issue that hasn;t been addressed here is how does one define gambling. Any element of chance means a gamble...

BengaliPagol
March 6, 2017, 08:44 PM
what i am not sure either is that would those claw machines for kids and those kid type machines that you need $2 to play be haram because there is chance or an element of gambling to it?

G-man
March 6, 2017, 08:47 PM
what i am not sure either is that would those claw machines for kids and those kid type machines that you need $2 to play be haram because there is chance or an element of gambling to it?

this needs a separate thread!

iDumb
March 6, 2017, 09:00 PM
I spoke to a sheikh myself about this.

.

I should have stopped reading after this.

People love making things more complicated than it is.

A company like Enron maybe falsifying its data but it is impossible for you to know that. Your intentions were to purchase a piece of the company.

When a butcher shop goes on sale and if it's in the right area, the demand for the store front can create a price for the store that is much higher than its intrinsic value as a business (ie based on revenue/profit) - that does not mean you will sell your butcher store below the price of market demand because ideally the business itself is worth so much less....

Stock price simply reflects supply and demand.

iDumb
March 6, 2017, 09:04 PM
And in my opinion the only sheikh worth talking to is sheikh hasina.....

G-man
March 6, 2017, 09:15 PM
I should have stopped reading after this.

People love making things more complicated than it is.

A company like Enron maybe falsifying its data but it is impossible for you to know that. Your intentions were to purchase a piece of the company.

When a butcher shop goes on sale and if it's in the right area, the demand for the store front can create a price for the store that is much higher than its intrinsic value as a business (ie based on revenue/profit) - that does not mean you will sell your butcher store below the price of market demand because ideally the business itself is worth so much less....

Stock price simply reflects supply and demand.

I only said that because i did't just google it. but the sheikh V google thing is a discussion on it's own

zman
March 6, 2017, 10:24 PM
if you were to discuss derivatives and everything evelse, then from my discissions with sheikhs, they all deem it haram simply because they fail to first udnerstand what derivatives are and what the yare used for. Authoritive figures just look at the compelxity of financial instruments and deem it haram. Now maybe being conservative like that is the way to go, but I beg to differ.
I get your post and most of it makes sense. This is the part where the sheikh definitely got it right. With stocks you own a piece of the business or company. By adding up all the stocks you get the actual net worth of a company. Problem with most derivatives is, although their value is derived from the underlying asset (by definition), their notional value is allowed to far exceed the value of the underlying asset. And this is a huge problem. With credit default swaps (CDS) for instance, you could have a million dollar company and sell a billion dollar worth of CDS for the company. Each CDS is a contract allowing the holder of the contract to make money in the event the company fails to pay off its debt.

I remember when the financial crisis happened the notional value of all derivatives was worth over a quadrillion dollars, which is a thousand trillion. This amount was 20 times the size of the world economy at the time. In a world of unregulated derivatives most people are bound to lose a lot of money. And the leader of the free world just paved the way for it to happen again by repealing Dodd-Frank :facepalm:

adamnsu
March 7, 2017, 06:30 AM
Buying stocks is not gambling. When you purchase stocks, you buy a piece of the company. It sounds like gambling for people who lack understanding of the this simple fundementals. Our prophet was a businessman himself. Buying stock is no different than owning your halal store with 3 partners.

However what company you buy into matters. There are funds specially cater to Muslims ie Halal that avoid investing in companies that deal with alcohol, cigarettes, guns, pornography etc.

Quiet some time ago, one of those fund was in the news because it was beating the market quiet handsomely for a while.. apple being their number 1 company.

Quite a mature and educated answer from you. Keep it up :up: