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AsifTheManRahman
May 16, 2004, 04:40 PM
Here's what I think: Bashar out Shariar in
Alok out Faisal in

Shariar and Hannan to open the batting.

Please feel free to give your views.

AsifTheManRahman
May 16, 2004, 04:40 PM
Oh and Rajin to captain the side

Piranha
May 16, 2004, 04:49 PM
Our captaincy crisis really knows no end.

Do you guys remember that most of us on this had envisioned this very scenario - Captaincy being handed to bashar and he would go out of form.

(If I rememeber correctly, my stance on this issue was that we should choose Bashar anyhow, beacuse he had better long term prospects compared to Rafique).

Its sad that our worst fears have come true. In hindsight, perhaps we should have taken Rafique as capatin and Bashar as VC.

Once again we find ourlselves in a familiar dilemma. What to do when the captain becomes a baggage to the team? If we change captains (after the test series maybe), there is no clear successor besides Rafique. The problem with Rafique, of course is that he is a bit old and may not be able to stay for long.

Maybe we should be looking ahead only 1-3 years, and not 5-6 years.
:mad:

Piranha
May 16, 2004, 04:52 PM
Rajin's place in the team also looks shaky. He hasnt bowled much and his batting isnt what it had promised to be.

Barrera
May 16, 2004, 06:34 PM
Kapali should deffinetly be dropped, but I reckon he will bounce back because he has decent skills with the bat, he is just going through a bad patch. Bashar wont be dropped becasue he is captain.

reverse_swing
May 16, 2004, 06:37 PM
technically Kapali is our best batsman. no doubt about that.

Mahmood
May 16, 2004, 06:38 PM
You know with Bashar, it is only matter of time before he strikes form.

I am more worried about Rajin and Kapali.

Barrera
May 16, 2004, 06:55 PM
Originally posted by Piranha
Rajin's place in the team also looks shaky. He hasnt bowled much and his batting isnt what it had promised to be.

We can say that about every single one of our batsmen. Am afraid we are gonna have to fiddle around with what we got so far and keep on bringing in new batsmen until we get someone who is technically sound, so that if he goes through bad patch he still cant be dropped. I wish a Bangali player will emerge that has a first class batting average of 50 or over in both forms of cricket, now that would be a player who's international debut will be much anticipated, mind you I cant wait to see Faisal Hossain in action, am assuming he will be the same old story, not the finished article, I hope am wrong

James90
May 16, 2004, 08:02 PM
What really pisses me off is when one person fails once and they start claiming they're in bad form. I'll start

Rajin Saleh-Great tours of Pakistan, England and Zimbabwe, was in form after Zimbabwe. In the first game came in at 3-5 and brought them back with a well compiled 20. It was a start. He failed today...1 FAILURE

Habibul Bashar-Found his form in the one-dayers against Zimbabwe, is supposedly doing a great job captaining the team. Hit 47 in the practise match but failed in the first 2 one-dayers...2 FAILURES

Alok is fair, he has to go

Piranha
May 16, 2004, 08:20 PM
Just to make myself clear....

I'm not saying Bashar should be dropped. But his current level of form/performace is a major worry.

I'm also not saying that Rajin's current form precludes him from being a future captain. But he needs to cement his place in the side before such a move can be seriously considered.

As usual, I always prefer stability over chopping and changing - even at the risk of keeping a failing player for to long. I would defintely like to see Bashar see out the tour. But we still need to do some serious thinking about the future.

Alok however, has seriously tested my patience. I'd say drop him from 3rd ODI. but try him out in first test. If he still fails, dont take him in next tests.

Navarene
May 16, 2004, 08:22 PM
I don't think any changes is needed except for Alok. Bring Faisal Hossain Dickens for Alok. This is the time to give this youngster a chance since BD has nothing to lose in 3rd ODI. WI have already won the series.

Batting order should also be reshuffled. Bring Shariar Hossain to open with Hannan and push Ashraful down to his original slot.

Barrera
May 16, 2004, 08:59 PM
Originally posted by Navarene
I don't think any changes is needed except for Alok. Bring Faisal Hossain Dickens for Alok. This is the time to give this youngster a chance since BD has nothing to lose in 3rd ODI. WI have already won the series.

Batting order should also be reshuffled. Bring Shariar Hossain to open with Hannan and push Ashraful down to his original slot.
If you are saying to make 2 changes, Faisal for Alok thats fine, but who does Shariar come in for. By the way is Faisal age 28

Nasif
May 16, 2004, 09:31 PM
I want to see Faisal in action. I have high hopes for this guy.

Mridul
May 16, 2004, 11:34 PM
Alok should be dropped....and Faisal should in instead

and since we already lost the series.....we should give Rafiq a break....and give a chance to Razzaq

James90
May 16, 2004, 11:36 PM
A break from what? He hasn't even bowled 15 overs and not taken a wicket. He needs to find form before the tests

Rubu
May 16, 2004, 11:49 PM
i'm still very much convienced that sumon will never do good as long as he has captency. he is wellknown for his shyness and introvertness. there is no way a person like this will be able to cope with the tremendous pressure of captency. he is a complete hopless case.

about alok: i'm pretty sure, all he needs is a vacation. he has to earn his way back. and if we keep playing him, he'll keep doing this. since we ve faisal informed right now, we should definately change him with faisal.

i'm more or less satisfied with the 2nd odi team. either they deserve more chance or there is no good replacement.

THE IDEA, oracle vai, i'm sure u'll be find some emply rum bottle on the street. can u please make sure one of them lands safely on sumon's head so that he become unfit to play the next odi? this is (injury) the only way to keep a captain out of the team.

crickwizard
May 17, 2004, 01:39 AM
good assumption, Basher has not shown anything special in captaincy during his last few matches other than disappointing us with irresponsible batting. Batting he may get back during incoming matches, however, BD need a strong personality to captain the side. Basher, as a person, is too soft. Remember he cried when Rafiq said few dhakaiya gali to him. How can a captain cry in a fight (fich fich...). The only remaining option now is Mushfiq, who showed consistency and intelligence few times

fwullah
May 17, 2004, 01:40 AM
We can say that about every single one of our batsmen. Am afraid we are gonna have to fiddle around with what we got so far and keep on bringing in new batsmen until we get someone who is technically sound, so that if he goes through bad patch he still cant be dropped.


We already have someone like 'who is technically sound', but (I don't know why) we still drop him i.e., Hannan Sarkar. (And everytime he returns being better player than for those whom we thought were good initially - i.e., Shahriar Hossain, Mehrab Hossain)

fwullah
May 17, 2004, 01:46 AM
i'm still very much convienced that sumon will never do good as long as he has captency.


Can you remember that there was this thought of making Bashar the Test Captain and Mahmud the ODI captain? It was because Bashar's form in ODIs was on its way down, anyway and it was always his form in Test cricket that led us to the decision of him being the captain, rather than his form in ODI cricket.

Actually, Bashar has been out just like during the world cup 2003, bad shots, nicking a wide ball of the leg side, bad decision to play pull shots etc. So I wouldn't worry about his captaincy and/or batting unless he starts to bat like the same way in Test cricket also.

fwullah
May 17, 2004, 01:50 AM
Mushfiq, who showed consistency and intelligence few times


Is it a coincedence that you mentioned Mushfique's name in one of the candidates to be the captain at a time when he showed irresponsibility for the first time with the bat in the last match.

sasharif
May 17, 2004, 05:01 AM
Bashar is the best player we have ever had (probably next to Atahar Ali) and he is also the worst captain we have ever had. If you cry in public after a disput with a fellow player ( no matter whoever is right are wrong), you loose the moral right to lead a side. Bashar is very introvert, not inovative and often irresponsible (inselecting shots). Despite this we possibly do not have any better batsman than him. However, so far he could not lead from the front. The only captain in our history to lead from the front was Khaled Mashud. Bring him back to captaincy. I am sick and tired of 'new blood' etc...... We need a captain who can perform, who is consistant in most ocassions. Mashud is that man. Even he is 'old' (in the eyes of the selectors).

Mridul
May 17, 2004, 05:49 AM
Originally posted by Habibul_fan
A break from what? He hasn't even bowled 15 overs and not taken a wicket. He needs to find form before the tests

just for the last ODI......and Rafiq can play the 3 day match...to get his form back.......and Rafiq is always different in test matches......he is a worldclass there

ZaKi
May 17, 2004, 07:00 AM
I think Razzak & Faisal should give a chance. & Alok & Rafiq should give a break.

ZaKi
May 17, 2004, 07:03 AM
& jodi amra Shahriar ke Sumon er jaigai nei as a opener with Hannan that will be best. But Sumon jehetu Captain, so that is impossible.:(. Jodi nah Injury te pore ;)

SS
May 17, 2004, 07:05 AM
top order sux...I am so mad
they all should be dropped..I think
even from this forum who plays a cricket will do better than those idiots who play loose shots when its not needed...they should get punished...:mad:

Beamer
May 17, 2004, 10:32 AM
Much has been said about our batting( bad) and bowling( good ). I think, its a reflection of the nature of the pitches that we played on as well. That was a contributing factor as well. This pitch was slow and low. Both teams batted badly and bowled great. Saying that, there is no excuse for top order batsmen to get beaten on the leg side and edging to the keeper. Also, there was no need really to open Ashraful yesterday. We needed a batsman who could accelerate in the middle. We tend to shuffle the lineup too much when we smell something good ( for ex. the third odi in ZIM where we had a great opening stand and we started to do all kinds of experiments ). This needs to stop. Maybe also, its time for bashar to come at no.4 until our openers can give us a decent start. He has been an opener basically at no.3. Not helpful. Without him scoring runs, we are usually no where. I will put rajin at no.3. Ash at 5 and faisal at 6 for the next game. Also would love to see Raj. Hannan has just got himself back for the tests and the last match ( biddut, read somewhere, is injured again! ). He will open with Rana. I expect a better batting result on Wednesday. Once again, our only chance lays with batting first.

sage
May 17, 2004, 10:55 AM
Bashar can come 3rd or 4th down instead 1 down. Rana plays good at the end. Tapash and Hannan can open. My 2 cents.

AsifTheManRahman
May 17, 2004, 01:00 PM
i agree with sage in that we can experiment on our batting order...it won't hurt since we don't have much to lose in this final ODI as the series has already been decided and a win in the last match would be a bonus, one which looks pretty impossible right now.

ZaKi
May 17, 2004, 01:26 PM
start innings from the bottom: opening pair Khaled Mahmud and Tapah Baisya- then Rafique and so on. Doesn’t matter if they fail; our top order failing consistently in every single match>>:D:D:D . Yes Rassel u r right. but dropeed Pilot ;)
I thik Batting Order should ::
1. Hannan
2. Shahriar
3. Rajin
4. Mushfiq
5. Bashar//Faisal
6. Ashraful//Faisal
7. Rana
8. Pilot
9. Rafiq/Razzak
10. tapash
11. Sujon

rassel
May 17, 2004, 01:27 PM
Batting Order

Hannan Sarkar
Mushfiqur Rahman
Rajin Saleh
Faisal
Mohammad Ashraful
*Habibul Bashar
Manjural Islam Rana
Mohammad Rafique
Khaled Mashud
Khaled Mahmud
Tapash Baisya


Alternative solution: start innings from the bottom: opening pair Khaled Mahmud and Tapah Baisya- then Rafique and so on. Doesn’t matter if they fail; our top order failing consistently in every single match.

[Edited on 17-5-2004 by rassel]

rassel
May 17, 2004, 01:29 PM
[quote]Originally posted by ZaKi
start innings from the bottom: opening pair Khaled Mahmud and Tapah Baisya- then Rafique and so on. Doesn’t matter if they fail; our top order failing consistently in every single match>>:D:D:D . Yes Rassel u r right. but dropeed Pilot ;)


i knew that i missed somebody! i don't know who it was!:lol:

Zobair
May 17, 2004, 01:56 PM
I believe this will be the playing XI for the 3rd ODI

Faisal Hossain
Hannan Sarkar
Habibul Bashar
Rajin Saleh
Md. Ashraful
Mushfiqur Rahman
Manjarul Islam Rana
Khaled Masud
Khaled Mahmud
Md. Rafique
Tapash Baisya

Basically Faisal in for Alok who definitely needs a break.

Zunaid
May 17, 2004, 02:04 PM
Originally posted by pompous
I believe this will be the playing XI for the 3rd ODI

Faisal Hossain
Hannan Sarkar
Habibul Bashar
Rajin Saleh
Md. Ashraful
Mushfiqur Rahman
Manjarul Islam Rana
Khaled Masud
Khaled Mahmud
Md. Rafique
Tapash Baisya

Basically Faisal in for Alok who definitely needs a break.

Like your team, Pompous - but I am wondering if we could get Bashar to come 2 down and not 1 down.

I would still like to try Rana as an opener - Perhaps have Hannan/Rana opening; Faisal 1 down and the rest as is. Perhaps move Mushfique down depending on whether we need a lusty hitting partner for Rafique near the end.

Zephaniah
May 17, 2004, 02:44 PM
1.Manjarul Islam Rana
2.Hannan Sarkar
3.Rajin Saleh
4.Habibul Bashar
5.Md. Ashraful
6.Faisal Hossain
7.Mushfiqur Rahman
8.Khaled Masud
9.Khaled Mahmud
10.Md. Rafique
11.Tapash Baisya

Batting order should not be changed in ANY case ( doesn't matter if it is a 5-over match or 55 overs!)

Faisal should not open in his debut when Rana is relatively successful in that position. Last time Hannan and Rana opened the innings produced a century partnership. To be honest i would like to see specialist openers but can't solve team composition.
Kaps should be sent back to home promptly. I would prefer Bashar at no.4 position, 'cause i don't think his confidence is high at this moment ( not questioning his ability yet, even though knowing his questionable ODI performance). Though Rajin has done little so far, somehow he inspires (my!) confidence.

betaar
May 17, 2004, 03:08 PM
Originally posted by Zephaniah
1.Manjarul Islam Rana
2.Hannan Sarkar
3.Rajin Saleh
4.Habibul Bashar
5.Md. Ashraful
6.Faisal Hossain
7.Mushfiqur Rahman
8.Khaled Masud
9.Khaled Mahmud
10.Md. Rafique
11.Tapash Baisya

Batting order should not be changed in ANY case ( doesn't matter if it is a 5-over match or 55 overs!)

Faisal should not open in his debut when Rana is relatively successful in that position. Last time Hannan and Rana opened the innings produced a century partnership. To be honest i would like to see specialist openers but can't solve team composition.
Kaps should be sent back to home promptly. I would prefer Bashar at no.4 position, 'cause i don't think his confidence is high at this moment ( not questioning his ability yet, even though knowing his questionable ODI performance). Though Rajin has done little so far, somehow he inspires (my!) confidence.

I couldn't agree more.

Zobair
May 17, 2004, 03:10 PM
Well thats the team I thought would be selected by the team management. My team and order preference would be as follow:

Hannan Sarkar
Manjarul Islam Rana
Rajin Saleh
Habibul Bashar
Faisal Hossain
Md. Ashraful
Mushfiqur Rahman
Pilot
Rafique
Shujon
Tapash

I would cushion Faisal right in the middle with plenty of batting to come before and come after him. That should minimize the pressure. If we lose an early wicket then I would rather have rajin in who will at least see off the first few overs with some technically correct cricket. Bashar can come in next and free up his arms :)

Tiger
May 17, 2004, 03:25 PM
Making changes to the batting line-up after each game is hampering our success. We should really be making at most one change to the top batting order based on the player who looks most uncomfortable in his position. Maybe we need to give our top order more time to adjust themselves. Let them develop a sense of responsibility for their respective batting position. Surely this will bring us success much quicker.

wasif
May 17, 2004, 06:07 PM
MY TEAM

ASHRAFUL
HANNAN
RAJIN
HABIBUL
RANA
MUSHFIQ
FAISAL
PILOT
TAPASH/TAREQ AZIZ
RAJ
ENAMUL/RAFIQ

I KNOW THIS TEAM WILL PLAY TODAY AND MAKES WIN

Barrera
May 17, 2004, 06:25 PM
Originally posted by Tiger
Making changes to the batting line-up after each game is hampering our success. We should really be making at most one change to the top batting order based on the player who looks most uncomfortable in his position. Maybe we need to give our top order more time to adjust themselves. Let them develop a sense of responsibility for their respective batting position. Surely this will bring us success much quicker.
It doesnt matter with these guys if you chop and chain, because they are all rubbish. Hopefully new talent will come through and in 3 years time our batting line up should look totally different to now. I just hope Faisal is different to all the guys that we have seen so far, even if he bats like England's Ashley Giles standard ad be happy. If Ashley Giles played for BD he would be best batsmen without a shadow of a doubt, thats how awful our batting is.

Cricket46
May 17, 2004, 08:53 PM
I really think Sumon should come at number 5 or 6, so that he finds himself at 50 for 4 rather than at 2 for 2. The less said about his form and/or responsibility the better. However, I do not agree that his batting is worse because of the burdens of captaincy. The truth be told, he plays like that always, like someone else was saying. Nine out of ten times he fails. The tenth time he scores a 50. That is not enough. But no one else is performing much better, either.

The biggest surprise would be if Kapali is still in the team for the 3rd ODI. If he is out, then the new player, Faisal, should make his debut. But I am afraid of expecting too much from him. Collectively the batting is failing way too frequently.

Someone said we should stick to the same batting order, whether it is a 5 over or a 55 over game. I don't know if he meant ir or not. Cricket is so much a mind game and a game of strategies. One fixed approach just does not work. Changes have to be made, including batting order, as needed.

Nascer
May 17, 2004, 09:11 PM
[Edited on 6-9-2004 by Nascer]

rafiq
May 17, 2004, 09:33 PM
Most of the posts here are singing the same tune - doom and gloom when we just pushed WI close in both matches (23 runs in a 25 over match is not close, but it's not too bad).

First of all, WI should be crushing Bangladesh in the one dayers. They are far superior to us even without Lara and especially now with some new firebrand pacers. Bangladesh has NEVER been competitive with WI in one dayers. So what are we crying about?

With Lara returning in the 3rd ODI, don't expect a win. We may do much better in the tests, and success would be to avoid 2 defeats. We need to learn to draw some games before we can hope to win them.

As for our batting, it is not doing any worse than at other points in time. I never liked Ashraful, Kapali, Rana, et al opening the innings. This is some Sri Lankan - Aussie psychosis centered around trying to make an opener out of all rounders, wicket-keepers, the ground staff if you must.

Ashraful opening in the World Cup was a failed experiment save for his innings against New Zealand when he scored a 50 (he may have been one down, can't remember). And now Whatmore went back to it just because he was looking at an ask rate of 5 in the 2nd ODI. What happened to Rana opening - is Whatmore ready to give up on that so soon after starting the experiment? What if Hannan had opened with Rana and the 2 had each scored 30 like they did - we would have had a solid foundation and the rest of the top order may not have had the "diabolical collapse" as the BBC reported. In fact, Hannan played pace very well in Australia, yet we keep fogetting about that and don't hesitate to drop him at the first chance. What does the WI attack consist of? Pace.

The problem with our batting is not the top order failing every time. It is the constant rotation of openers which exposes 3,4,5 to the new ball sooner than they should be.

So I say if Rana is your opener, then stick with him. Let people play their natural positions. My lineup for the 3rd ODI if it were up to me:

Hannan
Rana
Sumon
Rajin
Ashraful
Faisal
Mushfique
Mashud
Rafique
Mahmud
Baisya

[Edited on 18-5-2004 by rafiq]

[Edited on 18-5-2004 by rafiq]

tnb
May 17, 2004, 10:02 PM
Completely agree with Rafiq bhai. This rotation of batting order is dangerous. Ashraful is just getting back his form. Now he is burdened with the uncertainty of his position in the line up. I remember reading once that whenever Imran wanted to get rid of one his player, he used to change his batting order frequently. ( i think it was Harun ur Rashid, who disclosed it.) And Imran was successful.

I would like to see regular openers for the next match, Bidyut for Kapali; Faisal for Sujon (grenada is not for him) and Rajin getting a major share of bowling.


ps: i know sujon will be there and i wont mind if Sujon proves me wrong. :)

rafiq
May 17, 2004, 11:26 PM
Moreover in tests, if you go back to Australia you will find the Hannan=Javed Omar combination worked very well. They had solid partnerships followed by Bashar and Rajin. I believe we should go back to Hannan and Javed for the test matches. Not "let's see what happens in the first test" B.S. but for BOTH matches. Make a decision and stick with it.

One other thought after reading the Test Squad thread. Razzak Raj is not getting a chance to play. I can't see rafique-enamul-rana-raj all on the same XI. If Whatmore wanted to go out on a limb, he would drop Sujon or Mushfiq in the 3rd ODI to make room for Raj. If one had to choose then of course it should be Sujon who ought to be dropped. That would leave us with 2 pacers and a boatload of spinners for the ODI. Looking at how the pacers were underutilized in the first ODI, that might be an OK strategy. But, on the other hand, Grenada is a faster wicket. So maybe raj doesn't see any action after all. I don't think he should come in instead of Faisal at 6, however.

[Edited on 18-5-2004 by rafiq]

ZaKi
May 19, 2004, 03:29 AM
Amer mone hoi BD team er sob player ke x- captain banano uchit :P coz, sob x- captain valo kheltese.. & team e kono captain dorker nai :lol: coz jarei captain kora hoi sei kharap khele..So, Toss korer somoi & Prize cremony er somoi BD team er pokkhe Whatmore gelei cholbe :lol::lol::lol:

ZaKi
May 19, 2004, 03:32 AM
& arekta kaj kora jai.. Seta holo Tapash & Rafiq duijon ke opening e namano & 1 down Sujon. coz, sob match ei 1st 3 jon player 2/1 over ei out hoe jai . so, oi somoi lower order batsman out holei valo... out jokhon hobe lower order holei valo :D ki kon ?:lol::lol:

Ahmed_B
May 19, 2004, 04:13 AM
Originally posted by Beamer
Much has been said about our batting( bad) and bowling( good ). I think, its a reflection of the nature of the pitches that we played on as well. That was a contributing factor as well. This pitch was slow and low. Both teams batted badly and bowled great.

... this is actually because BOTH of the teams are in a batting disaster or inconsistancy in current stage..
neither BD nor WI has a consistant batting line up and there are so many youngstars in the squad!
WI is batting horribly too... this doesnt mean that its the circumstances(i.e pitch or else) that is causing a very poor batting display in the series..

fwullah
May 19, 2004, 05:59 AM
The only captain in our history to lead from the front was Khaled Mashud.


I believe Akram Khan is the only Bangladeshi captain to lead from the front as well as win International matches.

Naimur Rahman (he was in the ntv's alochona onushthan last Tuesday) also led from the front - but only in his batting.

fwullah
May 19, 2004, 06:19 AM
Stop tinkering with the openers!!


[Look above - rafiq's 2 posts]

Those are excellent points. I wanted to say just exactly those things, but just could not get them out off my hands.

If there is really someone from the BCB coming in BC like Oracle said then they must read rafiq's posts.

fwullah
May 19, 2004, 06:22 AM
It doesnt matter with these guys if you chop and chain, because they are all rubbish. Hopefully new talent will come through and in 3 years time our batting line up should look totally different to now. I just hope Faisal is different to all the guys that we have seen so far, even if he bats like England's Ashley Giles standard ad be happy. If Ashley Giles played for BD he would be best batsmen without a shadow of a doubt, thats how awful our batting is.


Barrera, are you watching Bangladesh playing for the first time on TV on Sky Sports? If I'm right, then I have a suggestion - don't believe everything that TV commentators on Sky Sports says.

fwullah
May 19, 2004, 06:29 AM
If one had to choose then of course it should be Sujon who ought to be dropped.


Finally, I agree with someone about Sujon, not because I stopped being his fan in his good as well as bad times, but because he's not an all-rounder any more, which he admitted (that he likes his bowling and thinks about his bowling more than his batting).

wasif
May 19, 2004, 09:01 AM
HURRAH................OUR CAPTAIN DOES NOT LAST LONG
...........ACTUALY I AM GOING TO MAD FOR OUR CAPTAINCY PROBLEM...........
:bravo::great: