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View Full Version : Let's discuss Universal Basic Income!


Zeeshan
July 6, 2017, 10:58 AM
I am for it.

Go.

bujhee kom
July 6, 2017, 11:20 AM
Makin the money...spendin the money!
Paycheck in the bank!

Get paid in gold. Get paid in cash.
Cash for your unused gold and silver. (+ stolen goods)

Zeeshan
July 6, 2017, 11:22 AM
shobaike one million dollar kore diye deu... jau!

bujhee kom
July 6, 2017, 11:22 AM
Universal 'Kaajer binimoy-e Khaddo"!

Khaal khonon kormosuchi...Khaal kato..Roti banau! GorOm Atop chaaler bhaat!


Dada, tumakey amar book dhala balobasa...thank you Gopal, amar dada!

Zeeshan
July 6, 2017, 11:29 AM
Makin the money...spendin the money!
Paycheck in the bank!

Get paid in gold. Get paid in cash.
Cash for your unused gold and silver. (+ stolen goods)

Don't let roey steal that off you. Btw, it will benefit artists like roey. Roey haque that is.

Zeeshan
July 6, 2017, 11:34 AM
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/UqESogRgrYw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

bujhee kom
July 6, 2017, 11:36 AM
Universal Angola, Nigeria, Sierra Leone and Ivory Coast paycheck...
Kampfen und shieben und toten ... in heroin bezahlt

bujhee kom
July 6, 2017, 11:38 AM
Na na dosto, on a serious note...yeah, I am also for some type of universal paycheck in one currency.
Basic income, food and healthcare.
And clothing too - Uniclo.

SportingBD
July 6, 2017, 12:04 PM
What do you mean by Universal income? Like the average needed to survive around the world?

Zeeshan
July 6, 2017, 12:13 PM
What do you mean by Universal income? Like the average needed to survive around the world?

When confronting my own mortality, I usually find Google to be my best friend.

SportingBD
July 6, 2017, 12:41 PM
Depends on country by country. The economy of countries differ.

Zeeshan
July 6, 2017, 12:52 PM
Depends on country by country. The economy of countries differ.

I know. I was just joking.

I think the more serious question are... who will play? (I am no economist...) How much minimum is sufficient? How much toll does that take on overall growth etc..? (I am speaking absolutely from US perspective... have zero clue or idea about UK) ..

Zuckerberg, Elon Musk have all spoken for it. (LOL why is it always the hip techies that lead the way..)

The funny thing is sometimes these issues creep up on you. I am sure someone would do a Moore's law and rate of automation graph study or something. Gay marriage, weed legalization...all these are reality. It seems like an issue that will take 10 years to fruit, but we never know...

I will be more curious how it pans out not here in US, but in developing countries like in Africa and BD.

Zeeshan
July 6, 2017, 12:56 PM
ay tumra bk r sathe misshyo na ...o khali dmt khay

SportingBD
July 6, 2017, 01:04 PM
Gay marriage, weed legalization...all these are reality.

I really don't know why we are so inclined towards inventing different kind of diseases in the world. I'm against this kind of legalisation based on medical stats. Legalising this kind of things will lead to many forms of different new diseases in the future. But its just my opinion.

In the UK, if your not employed, the government gives you enough to live a decent life. Lot of Bangladeshi older generations are on benefits (government is providing different kinds). I think countries like US/UK are fine in terms of having a basic income to survive. It varies, in many EU countries, what the government gives isn't enough for people say who are unemployed, widowed etc.. pensioners.. its more relative to what country you live in. Speaking for UK - its pretty good here.

Zeeshan
July 6, 2017, 01:16 PM
Gay marriage, weed legalization...all these are reality.

I really don't know why we are so inclined towards inventing different kind of diseases in the world. I'm against this kind of legalisation based on medical stats. Legalising this kind of things will lead to many forms of different new diseases in the future. But its just my opinion.

In the UK, if your not employed, the government gives you enough to live a decent life. Lot of Bangladeshi older generations are on benefits (government is providing different kinds). I think countries like US/UK are fine in terms of having a basic income to survive. It varies, in many EU countries, what the government gives isn't enough for people say who are unemployed, widowed etc.. pensioners.. its more relative to what country you live in. Speaking for UK - its pretty good here.

Yeah but benefits and welfare is not enough. (I will leave out the progressive side of my view regarding those two above subjects... but you get the gist where I am coming from.)

Anyhoo, the point is that of unconditional grant. And seed money to be sufficient. Think about it. When a baby is born, it is not his fault that he came here. No one is against reproduction, but when you frikkin give birth to a baby, not only you are mucking up the carbon footprint, but you are basically after five or six years of playing cutesy and footsie saying: "Okay my love is waning, time for you to toughen up little soldier and hit the stupid books so that you can study so that you can work so that you can retire and live happily ever after unless you die of stroke and heart disease at 60..." It is an uphill battle all along and good luck if you are from south central la, compton, harlem or parts of chicago where deck is already stacked against you..

The hell is wrong with that system! :hairpull:

It is lopsided, backwards and completely counterproductive.

With benefits, you can only have certain amount in bank, you cannot purchase expensive stuffs, you cannot save, you cannot buy house or travel ... and transparent.

The system is designed to keep you perpetually poor and slave to the system. But when vending machine is automated and penny dropped... the s***s clear... uh oh... we been doing this wrong and suddenly there is chance of 50% of jobs becoming automated with mass unemployment...

I got zero respect for all these so called hard workers and proponents of Puritan values from industrial age rather these creative geniuses of tech industry who are the real heroes in my opinion who are also hard workers...just not mindless hard worker ...

Also, think of a traffic in developed countries. (Bd is different than first world infrastructure..) But generally, after Western countries automated their system, you don't see dumbf***s breaking the law and rule and accidents happening every second. Human nature by nature is peaceful and civil and all just wanna get by.

So three things happend:

1. traffic cop's job got obsolete (stark reality eh?)
2. traffic became efficient
3. probably traffic accidents decreased

It is not like everything went haywire and people started panicking just because there is no comfort giving baby sitting police or traffic man to look after you...

SportingBD
July 6, 2017, 01:25 PM
I got some of your points and some I didn't.

Like are you blaming parents for having kids? because they will become slave of the system?
Didn't really understand this bit.

It's like saying to a poor person in Bangladesh, don't have kids, your kids will be poor like you?
Or don't have kids, your kids will be on benefits like you (due to many kind of government restraints)..

Didn't get that..

Zeeshan
July 6, 2017, 01:54 PM
I got some of your points and some I didn't.

Like are you blaming parents for having kids? because they will become slave of the system?
Didn't really understand this bit.

It's like saying to a poor person in Bangladesh, don't have kids, your kids will be poor like you?
Or don't have kids, your kids will be on benefits like you (due to many kind of government restraints)..

Didn't get that..

Absolutely. If you are struggling and having a s***y life, last thing you need to do is breed and bring a new being on earth fully knowing you won't be able to support it. (I partially blame religion for it but that is whole another can of worms..)

Listen the point is it is not a level playing field. And it doesn't have to be. But when we have the ideology and technology to make it less of a uneven playing field, why shouldn't we do it? Why after all the big holistic goal is to reduce poverty and crime? I mean this is why we do jobs no? We go to school, study, work hard to support ourselves, make the world a better place and reduce crime and poverty and create youtopia... But giving certain sum can cut through all the bs like gordian knot. And it may not, and will not solve humanity's problems.

See... humanity by nature is intelligent, safety driven and do not abuse. But many puritan minded staunch conservatives have this idea that humans are lazy parasites who will deteriorate and rot in wheelchair all bloated in booze and stuff in dark alley without intervention is just plain ridiculous...

Why did microcredit work?
Why does traffic system in my example work?
Why did legalizing all drugs in Portugal work?
Why do so many millennials educates themselves from online in science and arts?

This idea, that without Big Brother intervention humanity is destined to rot and suffer is absolutely childish (note not child-like). People in general are growth oriented and want to prosper.

Who knows? In 100 years time, basic income would be staple like...hmm... health? We don't after all have this ultra anal preachy idea that everyone should be born deformed and obese and need to "work hard" to get to where they should be which in many ways is just to be normal and healthy.

It would be common place. Current model of education system and banal work would be obsolete.

Time stamped Gupal Bhar (no affiliation with paypal)

SportingBD
July 6, 2017, 02:02 PM
Absolutely. If you are struggling and having a s***y life, last thing you need to do is breed and bring a new being on earth fully knowing you won't be able to support it. (I partially blame religion for it but that is whole another can of worms..)
Based on your logic, half of Africa would not exist. Nonsense. Life is not about just money.

Money is only one part of it.

Many of the older generation were much poorer, they worked hard to have a decent life.
Our new generation expectation is like we should have everything on our plate - no.

Who cares if you are poor or rich? as long as you can feed yourself. Many of those who chose to have children also take responsibility to feed them, how they do it is non of our business. If they want to have kids, it purely up to them.

The logic only rich can have kids and poor can't is disgusting at best.

How many poor person that were nothing became rich? and how many rich person that were everything became poor?

SportingBD
July 6, 2017, 02:08 PM
You trace some of the lineage of those rich people..

You will find how they came from very very poor family..

Or how their ancestors were basically slaves...

Zeeshan
July 6, 2017, 03:10 PM
Based on your logic, half of Africa would not exist. Nonsense. Life is not about just money.

Money is only one part of it.

Many of the older generation were much poorer, they worked hard to have a decent life.
Our new generation expectation is like we should have everything on our plate - no.

Who cares if you are poor or rich? as long as you can feed yourself. Many of those who chose to have children also take responsibility to feed them, how they do it is non of our business. If they want to have kids, it purely up to them.

The logic only rich can have kids and poor can't is disgusting at best.

How many poor person that were nothing became rich? and how many rich person that were everything became poor?

Yeah sure. Let's just go on pretending overpopulation does nothing to conduce poverty in those parts of the world.

Zeeshan
July 6, 2017, 03:11 PM
Whooo! Let's bring a baby to world. Who cares if it starves or suffers from polio!!

aklemalp
July 6, 2017, 03:49 PM
Population Density

SportingBD
July 6, 2017, 04:21 PM
Yeah sure. Let's just go on pretending overpopulation does nothing to conduce poverty in those parts of the world.

so a country can be overcrowded if all of them are rich? Trying very hard to understand your point. is the problem overcrowding? Or the rich wanting to become more rich? And putting up taxes etc to make the decent income people poorer? While the rich enjoys many benefits etc? Where is the balance in that? Helping the rich become rich? And poor become poorer? Is that their fault? How about the governments favouring the elites? Isn't there many different factors involved as to why people become rich or poor?

SportingBD
July 6, 2017, 04:27 PM
Whooo! Let's bring a baby to world. Who cares if it starves or suffers from polio!!

That shouldn't be your or my concern. It should be the concern of their parents. Majority of African countries don't or receive minimal help from the government. If the poor decides to have children why should it impact you? How? Everyone has the right to decide their own life irrespective of if they are poor or rich. For humans (Rich) to dictate the terms of the poor sets a bad example for the future.

Nafi
July 6, 2017, 09:48 PM
Wages arent even catching up with inflation, universal basic income atm is a sci fi fantasy

bujhee kom
July 7, 2017, 04:09 PM
My old Imam at the Shiddheshwari Masjid, back in the 70's, during Jumma prayer(Friday mid-afternoon prayer) khutba (sermon) used to say, "Taka Phoisha Prosraber Fena...Eijey manush ei masjid-er pash diye hetey jai, during namaz time while the jamaat is being held inside, kintoo ei manoosh-era poishar pichoney chutey-dourai, aar Allah-er ibadat-ke bhuley jai, Allah-r ghor-ke paash katiye soley zai...Takhar phagool Manoosh tumra goosh khau, oi keyamoter din, Roje Hashor-er maidan-e tomader oi prosraab-er fena tomar pashey ashey darabey naa, tomar hoye shakkhi dibey naa, jokhon Duniya o Akheraat-er Chief Justice (referring to our Lord, Allah) tomakey proshno korbey...."Hey Insaan tumi Duniya-tey ki korecho, kibhabey katiyecho?" (May Allah forgive me for quoting Him with imaginary words, and also speaking His name in a post filled with inappropriate words).

shoibboshach
July 7, 2017, 08:31 PM
Whooo! Let's bring a baby to world. Who cares if it starves or suffers from polio!!

Perhaps, the greatest multiversal crime was committed only when the parents of a certain Zeeshan 'decided' to work to bring a child to this existence to further over-populate, pollute and bring about an early multiversal destruction than what the Creator willed?

You're right...only a Nazi Eugenics Pogrom will turn this lower-world into an utopia. :)

Jadukor
July 7, 2017, 11:16 PM
Bancricfan alert

Zeeshan
July 8, 2017, 10:08 AM
Perhaps, the greatest multiversal crime was committed only when the parents of a certain Zeeshan 'decided' to work to bring a child to this existence to further over-populate, pollute and bring about an early multiversal destruction than what the Creator willed?

You're right...only a Nazi Eugenics Pogrom will turn this lower-world into an utopia. :)

My parents weren't piss poor like yours. Do you even understand what context means? Why do we even have birth control? Why do people don't start sprouting their genes for 20-30 family members? Times have changed. Sometimes emotions need to be in control or else it clouds judgment.

Anyway, an interesting sidenote is we will actually be looking at Population Implosion -underpopulation that is- by 2026. I think that was really interesting because most people only talk of overpopulation.

http://www.science20.com/news_articles/looming_population_implosion-108334

SportingBD
July 8, 2017, 10:40 AM
My parents weren't piss poor like yours. Do you even understand what context means? Why do we even have birth control? Why do people don't start sprouting their genes for 20-30 family members? Times have changed. Sometimes emotions need to be in control or else it clouds judgment.

Anyway, an interesting sidenote is we will actually be looking at Population Implosion -underpopulation that is- by 2026. I think that was really interesting because most people only talk of overpopulation.

http://www.science20.com/news_articles/looming_population_implosion-108334

That article and its prediction may be correct.

You have to divide it by developing countries vs developed countries.

In developed countries, women are now less interested in having more than two children, most prefer to have one. There seems to be many different factors as to why - you see many of those women are financially capable of having as many children as they want, but they prefer not to. Why they decide to have one children or even two is up to them, but most seem to be sticking with maximum of two. Here it's not a issue of being rich or poor, rather it's a issue of choice.

In developing countries, women have more children compared to developed countries, once again many different factors. Amongst them include the "hope factor", the factor of "many" means a collective effort to work together and have a better chance of decent livelihood. It is the decision of the parents - how they want or feel.

BUT, unlike the rich people or rich women their "choice" and freedom to make "own decision" is being taken over by governments. You see many of those developing countries, take the recent China example "one child policy" has taken away the right of those women/parents. In the name of controlling population, many of those developing countries in the future may restrict women/parents from freely deciding how many children's they want.

Is this fair? To me every human soul should be free to make their own decision, and no one, if you are rich or poor should put a restriction on peoples livelihood or personal decisions. Today, the government restricts poor women's or those in developing countries from having children citing "controlling population" tomorrow it maybe something else? citing something else to restrict those people. People should be free to chose what they want in their own life, and taking away their right to have or decide how many children they want doesn't look right or sound right.

Both these may lead to population rate dropping, especially if more countries decide to put restriction to peoples choice and own freedom to decide. Hence, the article maybe correct.

Zeeshan
July 8, 2017, 11:22 AM
Good post Sporting BD. And I absolutely agree with you, esp. your last point.

Shadow
July 8, 2017, 12:50 PM
Control population and focus on Kaitiakitanga.

shoibboshach
July 8, 2017, 01:44 PM
My parents weren't piss poor like yours. Do you even understand what context means?

Hard to believe a guy who could hardly put together a couple of simple sentences in spoken English will get all teachy and cocky behind a keyboard. I have, indeed, had the utter misfortune of stumbling upon that most cringeworthy video you have put out somewhere here on this forum. It gave me the creeps beyond all belief. To be frank, not only could you hardly express yourself in the English tongue but your whole body language and general demeanour was almost scary. Something seems very amiss somewhere. Perhaps, you need to ease off on that all uber western attitude and let it come to you naturally -in due course of time. You seem to be trying too hard to fit in without much success. I should imagine it could be very frustrating for you. Lets not try to be whiter than white nor more loyal than the king. An utter waste of energy and time. Just take it easy.

Let me clarify, as you might not be totally familiar with all things western, my previous post to you was a mere BANTER -blended with heavy doses of sarcasm and irony. Sorry if it was wasted on you.

Yes, my parents are rather relatively poor and I am not at all bothered or disturbed about it. Most people are poor on this planet. But, I would have been most disturbed had I turned out to be like you, though. :)

Sorry, you're saying something about context...

mufi_02
July 8, 2017, 02:40 PM
Zee brings a valid point about population control. We can disagree with him but shouldn't attack him personally for it (such as bringing parents into discussion).

I also believe there should be awareness about population and birth control. Take BD for example. Pre 1971, our birth rate was astronomically high. Through decades of education, it has now decreased to a manageable rate. While India and especially Pak remained very high and they are struggling to cope with it both socially and economically. Yes, it is the choice of the parents and government shouldn't enforce or dictate child policy. But at the very least, they should educate the masses and then let them decide.

And to original point - I don't agree with Universal Income for western countries. Each country is very different. US is very different than EU which is also very different from Asia/Africa. It might work in developing countries and bring out masses from poverty. But it is not appropriate for US. There are plenty of opportunities available here to climb up the ladder.

SportingBD
July 8, 2017, 02:59 PM
But at the very least, they should educate the masses and then let them decide.



Totally agree on this.

Zeeshan
July 8, 2017, 04:09 PM
Hard to believe a guy who could hardly put together a couple of simple sentences in spoken English will get all teachy and cocky behind a keyboard. I have, indeed, had the utter misfortune of stumbling upon that most cringeworthy video you have put out somewhere here on this forum. It gave me the creeps beyond all belief. To be frank, not only could you hardly express yourself in the English tongue but your whole body language and general demeanour was almost scary. Something seems very amiss somewhere. Perhaps, you need to ease off on that all uber western attitude and let it come to you naturally -in due course of time. You seem to be trying too hard to fit in without much success. I should imagine it could be very frustrating for you. Lets not try to be whiter than white nor more loyal than the king. An utter waste of energy and time. Just take it easy.

Let me clarify, as you might not be totally familiar with all things western, my previous post to you was a mere BANTER -blended with heavy doses of sarcasm and irony. Sorry if it was wasted on you.

Yes, my parents are rather relatively poor and I am not at all bothered or disturbed about it. Most people are poor on this planet. But, I would have been most disturbed had I turned out to be like you, though. :)

Sorry, you're saying something about context...

Looks like I have struck some serious chord, huh?

Zeeshan
July 8, 2017, 04:12 PM
I can't argue so let me pull up some other stupid **** from somewhere else and try to make point. Funny with all that utter vile, vitriolic and inflammatory nature of YOUR cringeworthy soul, you act as harbinger of peace and prophet.

That was such a disgusting post that it is absolute waste of breath and cyberbyte to argue with someone below the nature of a frikkin nematode. See two can play this ad hominem game...

Idiot, what made you think mine wasn't an effin banter you boor....

Zeeshan
July 8, 2017, 04:16 PM
If it wasn't Jadukor the problem with alias is the very deceptive and demonic nature. People have this uber-ultra zealous extremism and pseudo intellectual views that if he gets lambasted the moment another props up with the same uber-ultra zealous extremism and pseudo intellectual views it creates an illusion, albeit an uber deceptive one, that there are two of those. When only you have to worry about one nutjob in the world... suddenly it gives the impression that poor you only has one view whereas there are many like him others*.

Thank goodness the world has less of vermin like him.

*And don't even bring up language structure here. That was intentional you moron....unlike you who is slave to the language and can't create a scintilla or an ounce of originality rather parrot back what others have taught you.

iDumb
July 9, 2017, 07:50 AM
Zuckerberg is one of my favorite personality but I think all his talk about basic income is more to win popularity than anything. It's easy for tech billionaires to talk about ideal world... In an ideal world they wouldn't be billionaires.... Since most ppl on USA use facebook - I propose distributing portions of facebook ad revenue as part of their universal income.

There is technically universal income - it's called food stamp, section 8 etc... I also don't buy the notion that if you know you have "universal income" to fall back on - you would be more inclined to pursue your dream .... The true visionaries, the ones who are destined to be successful will be in spite of any hindrance financial or something else.

I am all for universal income if it does not come from taxing middle or upper middle class. Instead the money has to come from big corporations that fail to generate enough jobs in comparison to the money they make...

for example back in the days.... billion dollar companies use to employ 100s thousand ppl. Currently the tech companies that are worth billion employ only 10K ...

there are other better example but to illustrate the company that came to mind...
FORD has a market cap of 45 billion dollars but employs 200,000+ employees.
Facebook has a market cap of 450 billion (10 x bigger) but it employs less than 20K ppl (10x less)

FB ideally should be employing upwards of 2 million ppl..

And because of this discrepency , companies such as facebook and future companies who will take away jobs but massively profit should provide the funds for basic income.

Present this to zuck boy then see how he feels about it...

Rich guy is poor man's best friend when he doesn't have to give up any of his privileges.

shoibboshach
July 9, 2017, 08:48 AM
I also believe there should be awareness about population and birth control. Take BD for example. Pre 1971, our birth rate was astronomically high. Through decades of education, it has now decreased to a manageable rate.

As a GENERAL rule, "birth control" or population control runs against the very spirit of Islam. Human is the best of creation of the Supreme Creator Al-Khaaliq. Man is the custodian of this planet. Allah also declares that he has ennobled the children of Adam (human). Therefore, how could we have become so dumb to shoot at our own feet or have this stupid audacity to interfere with His creative act or will?. God is also the provider Ar -Razzaq. So, He is both the Khaaliq and Raaziq. Lest we forget, he warns us, “...kill not your children because of poverty - We provide sustenance for you and for them” (Quran 6:151).

He not only provides for us human but also those fly in the sky, swim in the sea, reign in the wild and other creations we don't know of. Have you ever heard of the Sparrows, the Sardines or the Rabbits being on the pills or devising an elaborative family planning policy and adhering to it? Are they dying exclusively because of hunger and over-population? If God the Creator can ensure that life exist solely in this planet, he can also provide for them and sustain them in a way we are not capable of fully understanding. He sets up checks and balances. He creates, He destroys. He resurrects. He does what He wills. He is All-knowing -the Most Wise.

Population was never a bane until the Godless post-modern man entered the scene who even finds his own parents to be burdensome. It has always been a blessing -be it economically, politically, sociologically or otherwise. Read closely what man have achieved and built collectively -without any post-modern technology or know-how. One can only marvel at them. The prophet of Islam Hadjrat Muhammad (sallallahu 'alaihi wa sallama wa tasleemah) understood the real essence and the cosmological rank, importance and purpose of man. Hence, he encouraged us to marry and have MANY children so that he may be proud of the sheer size of his community. And, his community (ummah) is not only limited to the muslim. He was sent as a mercy to all mankind.

Only the Satanists (Hizb-us-shaitan) are in the business of population control, depopulation or the culling of the population through war, drugs, vaccines, viruses, contraception, pills or removal of the uterus -because of their perverted obsession for darkness and anti-human agenda. Satan does blame Man (Adam) for his fall from Grace and he is his mortal enemy. Man might forget or overlook this but Satan does not. On the other hand, the Believers are in constant awe of God's creative energy and creations and proclaims, "our Lord, you have not created this in vain!".

I also believe there should be awareness AGAINST population and birth control. How pills and other contraception effects millions of women all over the world hormonologically, physiologically and psychologically. And, how it is related to big pharma-industry, eugenics and demography politics.

iDumb
July 9, 2017, 09:01 AM
^^ LOL interesting post.

You are right in the sense that minus techonology God would take care of its people. The population control would be through spread of disease - so an equilibrium is maintained and resources are abundant. And hence it makes sense to have 10 children because 8 would be dead before age 40.

But technology changed all that... so we have be to be creative now and can't rely on God alone.
Allah bhaat o dibe abar spanish flu o dibe....

mufi_02
July 9, 2017, 09:27 AM
As a GENERAL rule, "birth control" or population control runs against the very spirit of Islam. Human is the best of creation of the Supreme Creator Al-Khaaliq. Man is the custodian of this planet. Allah also declares that he has ennobled the children of Adam (human). Therefore, how could we have become so dumb to shoot at our own feet or have this stupid audacity to interfere with His creative act or will?. God is also the provider Ar -Razzaq. So, He is both the Khaaliq and Raaziq. Lest we forget, he warns us, “...kill not your children because of poverty - We provide sustenance for you and for them” (Quran 6:151).

He not only provides for us human but also those fly in the sky, swim in the sea, reign in the wild and other creations we don't know of. Have you ever heard of the Sparrows, the Sardines or the Rabbits being on the pills or devising an elaborative family planning policy and adhering to it? Are they dying exclusively because of hunger and over-population? If God the Creator can ensure that life exist solely in this planet, he can also provide for them and sustain them in a way we are not capable of fully understanding. He sets up checks and balances. He creates, He destroys. He resurrects. He does what He wills. He is All-knowing -the Most Wise.

Population was never a bane until the Godless post-modern man entered the scene who even finds his own parents to be burdensome. It has always been a blessing -be it economically, politically, sociologically or otherwise. Read closely what man have achieved and built collectively -without any post-modern technology or know-how. One can only marvel at them. The prophet of Islam Hadjrat Muhammad (sallallahu 'alaihi wa sallama wa tasleemah) understood the real essence and the cosmological rank, importance and purpose of man. Hence, he encouraged us to marry and have MANY children so that he may be proud of the sheer size of his community. And, his community (ummah) is not only limited to the muslim. He was sent as a mercy to all mankind.

Only the Satanists (Hizb-us-shaitan) are in the business of population control, depopulation or the culling of the population through war, drugs, vaccines, viruses, contraception, pills or removal of the uterus -because of their perverted obsession for darkness and anti-human agenda. Satan does blame Man (Adam) for his fall from Grace and he is his mortal enemy. Man might forget or overlook this but Satan does not. On the other hand, the Believers are in constant awe of God's creative energy and creations and proclaims, "our Lord, you have not created this in vain!".

I also believe there should be awareness AGAINST population and birth control. How pills and other contraception effects millions of women all over the world hormonologically, physiologically and psychologically. And, how it is related to big pharma-industry, eugenics and demography politics.

Yes Allah provides for all the creatures. But at the same time we are responsible for our actions. If I know I can't provide for more than "x" number of kids then I shouldn't just breed like rabbits. Because it is the duty of parents. No not duty. It is absolute mandatory for the parents to provide for their children.

In the same vein, I can't just quit working and sit on the couch all day - expecting that Allah will provide. Allah has given us intelligence which was not given to any other creature. employment/business was not made haram. Many of the sahabas including Abu Bakr/Uthman were well to do merchants.

That's why I don't agree that you can sit at home and not do anything to change your life and only expect divine decree.

How many kids do we see in Dhaka sleeping by the roads and on sidewalks? Kids going around begging for money? Kids being abused/drugged and manipulated by the most heinous people. This SHOULD more than bother us. This should change us.

But we are more worried about global consipiracies and eugenics program. Not everything in life is controlled or western powers and there is no "hidden" agenda. It's just a lame excuse to blame for our gross misfortunes.

mufi_02
July 9, 2017, 09:37 AM
Finally, Tumi kono kaj kam korba nah. Sharadin bou er pichone pichone ghurba. Pukur er pashe, taal gach er niche, bash jharer konay, goal ghorer bhitore bou er shari taan diba, daily foshti noshti korba ar bochor bochor baccha poida korba ar bolba oh Allah khawabe...sheita toh hobe nah.

Now there is no global conspiracy to make Rahim miya like this. He is just plain horny. Lungir moddhe ek hath shob shomoy diye rakhe. Uttejonay eishob kaj kore fele ar bole thik ase 10 mash por dekha jabe. Tokhon hoito ekta chakri khujbo or ekta dokan dibo. Kintu dui din por abar shei obostha. We have all been there. We have all been Rahims one time or another.

shoibboshach
July 9, 2017, 10:49 AM
I can't argue so let me pull up some other stupid **** from somewhere else and try to make point. Funny with all that utter vile, vitriolic and inflammatory nature of YOUR cringeworthy soul, you act as harbinger of peace and prophet.

That was such a disgusting post that it is absolute waste of breath and cyberbyte to argue with someone below the nature of a frikkin nematode. See two can play this ad hominem game...

Idiot, what made you think mine wasn't an effin banter you boor....


I know ONLY an emotionally imbalanced person with serious psychological issues can lash out in a manner you did above. Perhaps, you don't get out much, have/had no real life friends, stay in a hole 24/7 and memorise the dictionary...yes, dictionary -falsely hoping to impress people with utter banality? You clearly lack substance. Perhaps, you're bullied at school and never recovered from that? Therefore, your only escape or refuse is the cyber world and your staggering post counts here is a fair indication. You're constantly crying out for attention like an over-grown child and craving acceptance. You also exhibit many psychopathic tendencies.

Hence, you dabble with transcendental meditation to attain some sort of peace only with no success. Your rant above bares witness to this.

I say, quit being such a banal, shallow, pretentious, schizophrenic twit and seek help. Please, let me know if I have hit the right areas.

shoibboshach
July 9, 2017, 11:03 AM
^^ LOL interesting post.

You are right in the sense that minus techonology God would take care of its people. The population control would be through spread of disease - so an equilibrium is maintained and resources are abundant. And hence it makes sense to have 10 children because 8 would be dead before age 40.

But technology changed all that... so we have be to be creative now and can't rely on God alone.
Allah bhaat o dibe abar spanish flu o dibe....

I usually don't engage with people begin their statement with LOL, LMAO etc . I associate them with juveniles or imbeciles. Despite you're nick I'll give you the benefit of doubt this time.

Your simpleton like over simplification of my post is analogous to that of an Islamophope who reduces Islam to "killing the infidels and sleeping with 72 virgins in Paradise". For any future dialogue please let me know whether you would like to approach the subject matter in light of theology or modern social sciences or the both.

shoibboshach
July 9, 2017, 02:17 PM
Finally, Tumi kono kaj kam korba nah. Sharadin bou er pichone pichone ghurba. Pukur er pashe, taal gach er niche, bash jharer konay, goal ghorer bhitore bou er shari taan diba, daily foshti noshti korba ar bochor bochor baccha poida korba ar bolba oh Allah khawabe...sheita toh hobe nah.

Now there is no global conspiracy to make Rahim miya like this. He is just plain horny. Lungir moddhe ek hath shob shomoy diye rakhe. Uttejonay eishob kaj kore fele ar bole thik ase 10 mash por dekha jabe. Tokhon hoito ekta chakri khujbo or ekta dokan dibo. Kintu dui din por abar shei obostha. We have all been there. We have all been Rahims one time or another.

Goodness gracious me, what are you chatting about! Are you talking all this from personal experience? If you're indeed a 24/7 horny Mufi that's very good news for you and your spouse. Count yourself very lucky. Even hydraulics won't work on many modern men. Hence, the Viagra sellers are making a killing on ebays and amazons. Also, the sperm counts of modern men is declining rapidly. Don't divulge your little secret to the ladies otherwise you will be mobbed by them and die a premature death from a stampede. You are a regular modern day Don Juan, bro.

shoibboshach
July 9, 2017, 02:51 PM
SportingBD,

I know what you mean but I have very little sympathy or compassion for psychopathic nonentities. You need to point out who they are. Specially, if they are repeat offenders. Never claimed to be a prophet or a sage.

Of course, you might say they are decent people but could be the victims of some sort of MK-Ultra mind control programmes then its a different matter. May Allah help them to break free!

SportingBD
July 9, 2017, 04:06 PM
By the morning brightness and [by] the night when it covers with darkness,
Your Lord has not taken leave of you, [O Muhammad], nor has He detested [you].<?xml:namespace prefix = "o" ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comhttp://www.banglacricket.com/alochona/ /><o:p></o:p><BR>And the Hereafter is better for you than the first [life].<o:p></o:p><BR>And your Lord is going to give you, and you will be satisfied.<o:p></o:p><BR>Did He not find you an orphan and give [you] refuge?<o:p></o:p><BR>And He found you lost and guided [you], <o:p></o:p><BR>And He found you poor and made [you] self-sufficient.<o:p></o:p><BR>So as for the orphan, do not oppress [him].<o:p></o:p><BR>And as for the petitioner, do not repel [him]. <P></P> <P></P> <P></P> <P></P> <P><A href= </P> https://quran.com/93 (last verse is missing I think)

Full translation and audio: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICgxYb1X9I0

SportingBD
July 9, 2017, 04:12 PM
^The last 6 lines are soo emotional. How God has made an orphan into the greatest prophet, ever. It was hard to ever believe that*, especially as he (PBUH) was a orphan.

This Surah just shows, how God can make you great irrespective if you are poor, orphan etc..

*Pretty sure no-one thought he would go on to become a prophet with billion+ followers that time. Amazing example of how poor can achieve amazing things, it just shows no-one knows the future except Allah.
---

@Shoaibboshach sorry to see you go, but I'm 100% confident that they are not victim of MK-Ultra mind control programmes, I have seen them post here for many years, and they don't come across as what you mention.
---<?xml:namespace prefix = "o" ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com<img src=" /><o:p></o:p>

mufi_02
July 9, 2017, 05:58 PM
What is MK ULTRA? Btw thr thread was not intended for theology discussion but somehow it just ended up being one.

High five zee!! Eto rag kore nah. Chole asho :)

Jadukor
July 9, 2017, 07:22 PM
What is MK ULTRA?

I think it is the hot new game these days. Shunlam Liu Kang is back in this one.

iDumb
July 10, 2017, 06:22 AM
I know ONLY an emotionally imbalanced person with serious psychological issues can lash out in a manner you did above. Perhaps, you don't get out much, have/had no real life friends, stay in a hole 24/7 and memorise the dictionary...yes, dictionary -falsely hoping to impress people with utter banality? You clearly lack substance. Perhaps, you're bullied at school and never recovered from that? Therefore, your only escape or refuse is the cyber world and your staggering post counts here is a fair indication. You're constantly crying out for attention like an over-grown child and craving acceptance. You also exhibit many psychopathic tendencies.

Hence, you dabble with transcendental meditation to attain some sort of peace only with no success. Your rant above bares witness to this.

I say, quit being such a banal, shallow, pretentious, schizophrenic twit and seek help. Please, let me know if I have hit the right areas.

Please step away from the keyboard. Looks like you have a crush on Zeeshan. This is something you write to a crush that rejected you...



I usually don't engage with people begin their statement with LOL, LMAO etc . I associate them with juveniles or imbeciles. Despite you're nick I'll give you the benefit of doubt this time.

Your simpleton like over simplification of my post is analogous to that of an Islamophope who reduces Islam to "killing the infidels and sleeping with 72 virgins in Paradise". For any future dialogue please let me know whether you would like to approach the subject matter in light of theology or modern social sciences or the both.

hahah... you gonna give me benefit of the doubt? A guy who believes in fantasy over science.

over simplication of your post.... hahah... the post with lots of text, little substance, zero logic....

also too many posts full of personal attacks on others ... that is surprising for a relatively new member...

so I ask.... which banned member are you this time? they always crawl back from their hole.

iDumb
July 10, 2017, 06:25 AM
ok I see the guy is banned. I was worried there for a second for our mod team. Good job!! I was itching to engage with this chagol.

My Gosh! People have no self respect nor for others...

Jadukor
July 10, 2017, 06:33 AM
With all the caps lock, personal attack and smily emoticon i would say the beloved thought leader BCF graced us in this thread. And people wonder why we permaban. Sigh.

Lol. I am now worried about his (probable) 13 children logging in to exact revenge. :ohno:

Ps i decided put an lol in front so that i am saved from his future attacks E-)

Shadow
July 10, 2017, 08:29 AM
Lol. I am now worried about his (probable) 13 children logging in to exact revenge. :ohno:

That was a good one.

iDumb
July 10, 2017, 12:33 PM
And people wonder why we permaban. Sigh.


Actually his world view through the lens of Islam can be interesting read ... the problem with is the character ... unable to engage in civil discourse when someone points out the logical fallacies or simply disagrees ....

I am ok with some personal attacks here and there but decency needs to be maintained ....

One thing that bothers me and I see a lot is those that preach somewhat of a " strict" Islam is how they lash out on others and by doing so does everything that's totally unislamic and hypocritical ..

Ppl should take a leaf out of rifats page on character .... and how one demands respect rather than ridiculed for their viewpoint ...

But the permaban here is appropriate unfortunately ..it's a shame .

mufi_02
July 10, 2017, 01:01 PM
shame he got a ban. even though he was attacking us all but it was kinda fun to rile him up. just to see that reaction and hear those conspiracies.

oh well...

SportingBD
July 10, 2017, 01:03 PM
He made some valid points - seemed like someone who knows his stuffs, in terms of religion.

Main problem was.. the personal attacks.. otherwise some of his points seemed very reasonable, valid.