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SportingBD
September 7, 2017, 05:36 AM
Bad decisions.

Feel like captain and coach not on the same page. The captain wants one thing, the coach wants another. I sense the chemistry between them is not so good. All started after Mahmudullah Riyad got dropped from the test team (brother in law of our captain Mushfiqur).

Secondly, the reluctance to play Liton Das in the XI? Why? Is Mushy afraid of someone else taking the wicket keeping duty? The going after of coach Hathura for not picking Mominul? Even though we all know his been out of form for a long time and has issues with off spinners?

Something must change? What should that be? Change of captain? Change of coach (not saying that should happen). What do you guys think? I feel Mashrafe and Hathura has good chemistry as captain and coach in ODI, don't feel the same for test.

Feni_Heni
September 7, 2017, 06:30 AM
how did you feel about the coach-captain dynamic after the 1st test?

SportingBD
September 7, 2017, 06:44 AM
@Feni_Heni.

The feeling was the same as how I feel now.
I felt the 1st test XI was selected by Head Coach.
The second test XI was the Captains XI.

That's what I felt. The chemistry doesn't really look good.

SportingBD
September 8, 2017, 01:02 PM
Papon hits back at Mushfiqur!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpvNhA2eO8Y

Lol...

Mushfiq tried to blame the decision of excluding Liton + other changes on Hathura..

That was a damning response from Papon.

If mushy has any shame! he would resign as captain!!!

SportingBD
September 8, 2017, 01:06 PM
Papon said.. basically...

Mashrafe doesn't have any problem with coach and Shakib will also not have any problems..

Why does Mushfiq only have problem??? the fact he tried to blame his responsility/duty as captain on others?

He has done this things before? nothing new.. in the past he use to blame our bowlers lol..
now he started to blame the coach.. saying like he has no right hahahahah

SportingBD
September 8, 2017, 01:34 PM
Can you guys IMAGINE???

Mushfiqur the captain leading us in South Africa???

Fazal
September 8, 2017, 07:50 PM
Papon is not saint, but in this issue I agree with him. Mushfiq has a long track record of not owning up his responsibility, picked up (in the past) new comers and throw them under the bus in front of press briefing, support unconditionally his brother-in-law, showed weak mentality, used his captaincy to protect his own turf in a selfish manner, not a good leader for younger players and for their growth, and a "gowar" in a wrong way which is hurting the team.

NoName
September 8, 2017, 07:55 PM
LOL Mushfiq being Mushfiq

DinRaat.
September 8, 2017, 08:03 PM
Can you guys IMAGINE???

Mushfiqur the captain leading us in South Africa???

Double Post mods please delete.

DinRaat.
September 8, 2017, 08:06 PM
Can you guys IMAGINE???

Mushfiqur the captain leading us in South Africa???

Hope he doesn't get injured by the SAfrican quicks.

godzilla
September 9, 2017, 12:28 AM
Hope he doesn't get injured by the SAfrican quicks.

That would actually be pretty bad. Regardless of his mindless captaincy, he is one of our best batsmen. Him injured = playing with another walking wicket.

rezwansyed
September 9, 2017, 10:25 AM
Papon is spot on!! Time to shakeup the mindless captaincy...

5tonne
September 9, 2017, 11:55 AM
Mushy talks a lot and he gives away too much inside information.

SportingBD
September 9, 2017, 12:10 PM
Mushy talks a lot and he gives away too much inside information.

This is indeed a good thing, stops us from guessing:D!

Allows us to know what kind of foolish captain we have.:facepalm:

al Furqaan
September 9, 2017, 03:01 PM
Hathuri needs to be fired.

Instead of spending 8 hours a day coming up with bullshit reasons to drop Mominul, maybe he should give Rahim a defined role in the side. Perhaps he should think if having 5 lefties in a row to face Lyon is a good idea.

Coach is riding the success of the players without whom he'd still be a club coach in Australia.

Rana Melb
September 9, 2017, 04:17 PM
Is mushi a puppet captain?

http://www.newagebd.net/article/23608/captain-or-puppet

jeesh
September 11, 2017, 01:39 AM
Hathuri needs to be fired.

Instead of spending 8 hours a day coming up with bullshit reasons to drop Mominul, maybe he should give Rahim a defined role in the side. Perhaps he should think if having 5 lefties in a row to face Lyon is a good idea.

Coach is riding the success of the players without whom he'd still be a club coach in Australia.

You are far more knowledgeable than that bro. It would be extremely ungrateful to underestimate his role and influence in our progress.

But at the same time i think we need fresh thinking. There are gaps, weaknesses, issues which he hasnt been able to resolve. And now the chemistry in the team isnt all right. When a coach loses the belief of his senior players, its always trouble.

I doubt BCB will go for any change before 2019. But we should keep an eye out. Graham Ford is set to become coach of Ireland. He was someone who could have done a great job here.

Also regarding captain. Time for a change-really. Would have said give the job to Shakib, but that wouldnt send the right signal given he wants a break.

SportingBD
September 11, 2017, 06:18 AM
By this time, I would have expected Mushy to resign.

But he is still holding on to the captaincy duty.

Such a shame.

Fazal
September 11, 2017, 09:31 AM
If Mushfiq is a pupet captain as some fans (and reporters) claim, the next normal question comes, why didn't he resign (from captaincy) yet? Does that means he have no shame or self respect?

You (some of you) may hate Faruk, and he was far from perfect as chief selector, but at least he had some self respect and resigned in protest.

Whichever way you flip it, Mushfiq is still trun out to be a loser, noway to hide his lack of leadership quality or lack of self dignity.

Tigers_eye
September 11, 2017, 01:18 PM
Hathuri needs to be fired.

Instead of spending 8 hours a day coming up with bullshit reasons to drop Mominul, maybe he should give Rahim a defined role in the side. Perhaps he should think if having 5 lefties in a row to face Lyon is a good idea.

Coach is riding the success of the players without whom he'd still be a club coach in Australia.I am a human and not all of my decisions are perfect. Some works, others, not so much. I see no different with Haturi.

But that doesn't diminish his coaching ability.
1) He had pinpointed the most important deficiencies this team had from day 1 and was absolutely correct. Our players lack self belief.

2) You and I can Identify several things in the team but would not be able to fix it. He not only fixed it but made them confident that they can "win". This CANNOT be measured with any UNIT. This effect will be felt long after he is gone. We are no longer the punching bag. We are no longer crawling or walking in evolution stage. We can jog and sometimes we can take long leaps to speed up.

3) One track mind is what most of us have. Only very few possess to change on the fly. Could we have competed better? Yes, of course. But that one track mind of haturi has given us victory against England, Australia, and SL in test. 1st, 1st, and 1st time happened in our history.
Do an analysis on Tamim's performance before and after Haturi. He is no longer pointing fingers 1, 2, 3, and 4 with 50s. The hunger has grown.

++++

I agree we could have had better results, if the coach was a little flexible.

1) Tanbir Leggie, massive fail.
2) Not allowing Litton to be in the team.
3) Not having Nasir for ODIs but selecting him for Test :facepalm:.
4) Not having Mominul play at his natural position.
5) Moving Kayes from his original position #2 just to keep Sarkar in the team. Breaking up the best opening partnership we EVER had.
6) Future BD (Sabbir, Mosaddek) staying in potential rather than performance in test.

Honestly, all this could make us a little better but how much better I am not sure. Could we have won the second test with a new lineup and Mushi captaining? I don't know. Mushi's captaincy call is strictly on the board and not on Haturi.

I am grateful to have haturi and see us getting better every series (baby steps) even with all the short comings.

Jadukor
September 12, 2017, 04:32 AM
^^You can add Shuvagata Hom somewhere in the list. These are just symptoms and not the disease. All of this indicates that he is undermining the selection committee and the selection process in favor of what he sees in net practice session. This is going to have far reaching negative consequences

The other long term negative consequence that i see is that not a single player improved under Hathuru. Litton had the off side issue, Anamul had the footwork issue none of which were resolved. Perhaps Hathuru can't resolve these but in that case he needs to have a team that could. Jubair was another waste. The most painful one is the case of Soumya and Shabbir. These two are a huge talent but both of their performances are on a decline.

I thank Hathuru for instilling discipline, fitness and professionalism to the side. I thank him for increasing self belief within the team and getting rid of the Diva attitude of certain players that developed under Jurgensen. However, I think it is time we bring in a new coach, somebody who is tactically good but can also improve our players technically. Right now we are riding a wave of success because the Seniors are carrying the load but as Sri Lanka is finding out you need younger generation to pick up the mantle gradually before they retire or else you are screwed. Once Shakib, Tamim and Mushy start to falter, it will leave a huge gap that would be impossible to fill if we don't act now.

jeesh
September 12, 2017, 04:53 AM
I agree Jadukor Bhai. Credit him fully for the change he made in mindset. But somehow feel we need a change of thinking.

But do you guys think we should go for an sub continental coach? Or revert back to our practice of hiring Aussie?

I feel subcontinental coaches will have the problems Hathurusingha is having. In most cases it will be worse. For eg: someone like Kumble will be even more stubborn with his selection/treatment of players.

My dream coach for BD would be Trevor Bayliss or Tom Moody. Bayliss has contract till 2019, Moody more interested in short term commitments. Will be interesting to see how Heath Streak fares with Zim.

al Furqaan
September 12, 2017, 12:50 PM
I am a human and not all of my decisions are perfect. Some works, others, not so much. I see no different with Haturi.

But that doesn't diminish his coaching ability.
1) He had pinpointed the most important deficiencies this team had from day 1 and was absolutely correct. Our players lack self belief.

2) You and I can Identify several things in the team but would not be able to fix it. He not only fixed it but made them confident that they can "win". This CANNOT be measured with any UNIT. This effect will be felt long after he is gone. We are no longer the punching bag. We are no longer crawling or walking in evolution stage. We can jog and sometimes we can take long leaps to speed up.

3) One track mind is what most of us have. Only very few possess to change on the fly. Could we have competed better? Yes, of course. But that one track mind of haturi has given us victory against England, Australia, and SL in test. 1st, 1st, and 1st time happened in our history.
Do an analysis on Tamim's performance before and after Haturi. He is no longer pointing fingers 1, 2, 3, and 4 with 50s. The hunger has grown.

++++

I agree we could have had better results, if the coach was a little flexible.

1) Tanbir Leggie, massive fail.
2) Not allowing Litton to be in the team.
3) Not having Nasir for ODIs but selecting him for Test :facepalm:.
4) Not having Mominul play at his natural position.
5) Moving Kayes from his original position #2 just to keep Sarkar in the team. Breaking up the best opening partnership we EVER had.
6) Future BD (Sabbir, Mosaddek) staying in potential rather than performance in test.

Honestly, all this could make us a little better but how much better I am not sure. Could we have won the second test with a new lineup and Mushi captaining? I don't know. Mushi's captaincy call is strictly on the board and not on Haturi.

I am grateful to have haturi and see us getting better every series (baby steps) even with all the short comings.

The coach has outlived his usefulness for our team. What he has accomplished is great, but I think it was inevitable, and thus I am skeptical if he had much to do with it asides from being at the right place at the right time. If he can pull off the same feat with Sri Lanka, perhaps he has that magic ability.

Us winning matches has simply been due to the pitch conditions we've gotten. We now get turning wickets at home. That was a natural progression IMO as we started batting out draws on flat tracks from 2013 - well before Hathuri arrived. The only next step is to make pitches conduvice to winning. We can't make green seamers, so it was dustbowls. Mehedi came in and won us that first Test, and Tamim, Imrul, and Mominul's knocks.

I don't think you need a coach to impress upon Tamim that if he gets a little fitter his game might improve. It might just be maturity.

People loved to give all the credit of 2015 to Heath Streak. He was a good coach, but he didn't take any wickets. Fizz was the biggest reason for 2015 and Anamul Haque Bijoy gets more credit for that than Streak or Hathuri. Taskin has basically been the same bowler he was when he debuted.

I think have a tendency to overstate the importance of coaching. The coaches with the most impact for us, in hindsight, has probably been Whatmore (for giving us the initial self belief back when we sucked), Siddons for his technical work with our batting, and maybe local coaches like Salahuddin sir, etc.

Now the coach is actually harming the side and preventing us from doing better in all the ways you mentioned: forcing Imrul out of his natural position, forcing Mominul out of his natural position then dropping him, ****-talking about Mosaddek, mismanaging Nasir, thinking Sabbir is a top order batsman, there's probably more to add to that list.

Tigers_eye
September 12, 2017, 01:24 PM
...

Us winning matches has simply been due to the pitch conditions we've gotten. We now get turning wickets at home. That was a natural progression IMO as we started batting out draws on flat tracks from 2013 - well before Hathuri arrived. The only next step is to make pitches conduvice to winning. We can't make green seamers, so it was dustbowls. Mehedi came in and won us that first Test, and Tamim, Imrul, and Mominul's knocks. ....I am going to be kind and gently say, pitch condition and natural progression CANNOT give you a test win. We had that for the last 5/6 years. There is a significant difference between drawing a test and winning a test among the players mindset. We were already in the backfoot with Mushi's captaincy against England 100+ for no loss in the second innings. It was the coach's roll which was done perfectly to lift up the team at tea break. In one session things changed. Tamim and Shakib stepped up and guided the team. Cannot deny Haturi's contribution in that win. No matter what excuse you bring forth.

National team Coach's job is to make sure the players play the game between the two ears. Maximize their potential. Make game plans and strategies. I think he is doing that pretty well (with few lapses of course). I am not sure, who is out there who is willing to come and do a better job unless you take over. :)

Winning overseas is not a small achievement. We have done it. Brady can't be the GOAT without Hoody being there. A no-name Michigan backup would never start for an entire season under anyone else.

1) You believed we would draw at SL after the Slan's thrashed Aus 3-0?
2) You believed we would get to semis at the CT? Really? Come on now, be honest. Our group had Host England, Mighty Australia, and redhot NZ. What was your feeling when we got thrashed by NZ B team right before the tournament?

We haven't under achieved. That is my point. Only then you remove a coach.

Tigers_eye
September 12, 2017, 01:38 PM
^^You can add Shuvagata Hom somewhere in the list. These are just symptoms and not the disease. All of this indicates that he is undermining the selection committee and the selection process in favor of what he sees in net practice session. This is going to have far reaching negative consequencesFrom the beginning of time, all leaders bring in their own people who they can trust and rely when the crunch time comes. be it in battle field, or in a team environment. Those are never a democratic process. As you can say, Imran Khan is a winner, did it with his own selection, there were controversies in selection process. Look at Australia, O Keefe wasn't selected even after the best performance by any Aussie in India. That includes Warne and all the legendary spinners they had.

I don't like this part yet I can accept his growing power in selection if the results are coming along. We won against Australia without Mominul. May be it would have been better to have him but that is the choice he made and the result was good.

The other long term negative consequence that i see is that not a single player improved under Hathuru. Litton had the off side issue, Anamul had the footwork issue none of which were resolved. Perhaps Hathuru can't resolve these but in that case he needs to have a team that could. Jubair was another waste. The most painful one is the case of Soumya and Shabbir. These two are a huge talent but both of their performances are on a decline.Form can fall. That is not on the coach. It is on the player. As for technical improvements, national team is not the place to seek. Anamul's footwork will not improve unless you have a batting coach who is technically changing the players approach like Siddons. That is on the board. Not having something for the discarded players where they can go and work on deficiencies.

I thank Hathuru for instilling discipline, fitness and professionalism to the side. I thank him for increasing self belief within the team and getting rid of the Diva attitude of certain players that developed under Jurgensen. However, I think it is time we bring in a new coach, somebody who is tactically good but can also improve our players technically. Right now we are riding a wave of success because the Seniors are carrying the load but as Sri Lanka is finding out you need younger generation to pick up the mantle gradually before they retire or else you are screwed. Once Shakib, Tamim and Mushy start to falter, it will leave a huge gap that would be impossible to fill if we don't act now.I agree but is that the coach's or Board's job? Why aren't these new crops having to play decent competition outside the national assignment?

aklemalp
September 12, 2017, 03:42 PM
Double Post mods please delete.

In the case of double post, you can delete it yourself. Go to Edit. On the edit screen, you will see at the bottom right you will see options of Save, Go Advanced, Delete, and Cancel.

Hit the delete, at the bottom will show 'delete message'. Hit that and your message will be deleted, and you will be redirected to the first post of the thread.

Hope this helps :)

SportingBD
September 13, 2017, 08:21 AM
From the beginning of time, all leaders bring in their own people who they can trust and rely when the crunch time comes. be it in battle field, or in a team environment. Those are never a democratic process. As you can say, Imran Khan is a winner, did it with his own selection, there were controversies in selection process. Look at Australia, O Keefe wasn't selected even after the best performance by any Aussie in India. That includes Warne and all the legendary spinners they had.

I don't like this part yet I can accept his growing power in selection if the results are coming along. We won against Australia without Mominul. May be it would have been better to have him but that is the choice he made and the result was good.
Form can fall. That is not on the coach. It is on the player. As for technical improvements, national team is not the place to seek. Anamul's footwork will not improve unless you have a batting coach who is technically changing the players approach like Siddons. That is on the board. Not having something for the discarded players where they can go and work on deficiencies.
I agree but is that the coach's or Board's job? Why aren't these new crops having to play decent competition outside the national assignment?

Top post. Very balanced!

You can be critical of the coach, but there has to be a balance.
Over criticising him for things he doesn't have control, is very unfair.

National team isn't the place to be developing players.
This role plays on BCB! It's them who should have done more for Anamul etc.

al Furqaan
September 13, 2017, 03:03 PM
Tamim and Shakib stepped up and guided the team. Cannot deny Haturi's contribution in that win. No matter what excuse you bring forth.


Is there any evidence of this actually happening? Or is this fake news? I don't remember if this was ever reported on...senior players often help the captain so thats not exactly revolutionary.

If true its a poor reflection of the coach who knows that his captain is useless and still persists with him.

There have been two more Test wins, and the one vs Australia you can actually say was simply due to Mushfiq's stubborn captaincy where he continuously bowled Shakib and Taijul who took 7 of the last 8 wickets to fall. Maybe that was a fluke. But perhaps so was the England win, because we know that Tamim and Shakib would not make significantly better captains than Mushfiq. Remember they were captains when we lost to Zimbabwe in 2011, a team that hadn't played Tests in 6 years.

National team Coach's job is to make sure the players play the game between the two ears. Maximize their potential. Make game plans and strategies. I think he is doing that pretty well (with few lapses of course). I am not sure, who is out there who is willing to come and do a better job unless you take over. :)

At this point, I wouldn't do any worse. At this level the players coach themselves. There are no complicated schemes to learn, plays to memorize, or defensive coverages to recognize. Cricket is a far simpler game and these guys have been playing from their teenage years.

At this level coaching is about man management. You aren't going to improve Imrul's technique now at age 30. You aren't going to improve Shakib's match awareness at age 30. And even if you can, Hathuri most certainly has NOT.

Man management-wise Hathuru has been a disaster. Just saw this article today and makes my blood boil:

http://www.dhakatribune.com/sport/cricket/2017/09/13/imrul-vows-better-displays-south-africa/

Hathuru says to Imrul "don't worry you have 2-3 years of runs, we won't drop you if you fail in 3-4 innings".

Yet when Mominul was dropped he had scores of 5, 7, 12, 27, 23, 64 + 3 years of averaging 50+. Total double standard.

Practice match Imrul didn't score he gets picked, and Mominul who top scored with 73 gets ignored because coach wants batsmen with high strike rate in Tests.

That the team is winning despite a dumbass like that in charge is itself a miracle the likes of which haven't seen since Moses split the Red Sea.

Winning overseas is not a small achievement. We have done it. Brady can't be the GOAT without Hoody being there. A no-name Michigan backup would never start for an entire season under anyone else.

1) You believed we would draw at SL after the Slan's thrashed Aus 3-0?
2) You believed we would get to semis at the CT? Really? Come on now, be honest. Our group had Host England, Mighty Australia, and redhot NZ. What was your feeling when we got thrashed by NZ B team right before the tournament?

We haven't under achieved. That is my point. Only then you remove a coach.

Thats not only reason you remove a coach. What if Paterno-Sandusky are/were a great coaches? You mess up, you could and should lose your job.

Hathuru has gotten lucky to be in the same place at the same time. Lets see what he does with SL when he takes that job.

We are winning because senior players are stepping up - they were here long before Hathuru. And because young guys are contributing. Hathuru didn't discover Mustafizz nor Mehedi.

Anamul Haque Bijoy deserves more credit that Huthuru because if it weren't for him, Fizz would never have discovered his cutters and instead of winning series against India and SA, we'd have won the customary 1-2 games and been 9th in the rankings to this day.

Rana Melb
September 13, 2017, 09:39 PM
http://askingzone.co/bn/archives/16568

SportingBD
September 16, 2017, 06:28 AM
"Bhai, I haven't become a big enough player to want rest." - Mushfiqur Rahim when asked if he'd also consider taking rest like Shakib. - Isam twitter.

A sense of jealousy from Mushfiq? what do you make of his comment.

Definitely not how a captain speaks.. for sure..

5tonne
September 16, 2017, 06:44 AM
^It sounded a bit awkward to me as well.

SportingBD
September 16, 2017, 07:06 AM
That's how you would respond if your jealous of someone's success.

Pretty sure Shakib just wanted to get away from the test team. With that immature captain in charge.

5tonne
September 16, 2017, 08:51 AM
I think he is also annoyed that he will miss Shakib's services in SA.

tiger1000
September 16, 2017, 09:41 AM
"Bhai, I haven't become a big enough player to want rest." - Mushfiqur Rahim when asked if he'd also consider taking rest like Shakib. - Isam twitter.

A sense of jealousy from Mushfiq? what do you make of his comment.

Definitely not how a captain speaks.. for sure..

I don't think it's jealousy, it's more of a dig at Shakib, saying he's become too big for his boots

Definitely not how a captain should speak

SportingBD
September 16, 2017, 09:51 AM
I don't think it's jealousy, it's more of a dig at Shakib, saying he's become too big for his boots

Definitely not how a captain should speak

Whatever it is. Both ways it's just validating what a stupid childish captain we have.

Eshen
September 16, 2017, 12:41 PM
Unlike Shakib, Mushfiq does not step up when situation demands (ie come to bat when his team needs him). So, no, he doesn't deserve a rest.

Tigers_eye
September 17, 2017, 09:04 AM
That's how you would respond if your jealous of someone's success.

Pretty sure Shakib just wanted to get away from the test team. With that immature captain in charge.
This is not jealousy, for sure. Mushi like most Bangladeshis are VERY VERY smart. The dig has a reason. He needs Shakib the most in the SA series to keep his captaincy. He can sense the future. If things goes really bad in SA, the first head to roll would be the captain, I think.

He knows this. That is why the dig.

Tigers_eye
September 17, 2017, 09:35 AM
Is there any evidence of this actually happening? Or is this fake news? I don't remember if this was ever reported on...senior players often help the captain so thats not exactly revolutionary.
Fake news? I love you, man.
If true its a poor reflection of the coach who knows that his captain is useless and still persists with him. The coach was ready to replace the captain in Slan series. The board, didn't allow that. Channel your anger to the right direction.

Thats not only reason you remove a coach. What if Paterno-Sandusky are/were a great coaches? You mess up, you could and should lose your job. ....Apples to Oranges. I am a Peterno fan and believer. He had no part with Sandusky. I read the grand jury statements. Paterno did what he had to do. Sent the red headed assistant to the AD.

President, Athletic Director and Regents are the one who are culprits.

Fazal
September 19, 2017, 02:31 PM
The (Test) Captain vs The head Coach.

The captain is no match to the mighty Coach. Knock out in first round. Captain kaante kaante ring tagh korlo.