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IndYeah
October 6, 2017, 04:52 AM
So is the consensus here that BD made the wrong choice in fielding first?

I happen to disagree. Its a conservative choice that reduces the risk of being bundled out in the 1st innings and making the outcome of the test a foregone conclusion. Why is everyone hating on Mushfique for choosing the option that keeps BD in the game longer? Are you guys so overconfident in your team's batting abilities that you are 100% sure they won't collapse against the new ball on a fresh bouncy track?

And day 2 and 3 should still be good to bat on, anyway. So choosing to bat 2nd takes the game deeper, reducing the chances of a loss, increasing the chances of a draw or BD win, and gives the Bangladesh bowlers an opportunity to do their best against the SA batting, who have all the pressure on them to make sure they dont' "give it away". Seems smart to me. Why all this angst?

DinRaat.
October 6, 2017, 05:03 AM
I am more upset that you will be banned soon.

You should of opened a thread on that.

jeesh
October 6, 2017, 05:07 AM
I think thats precisely what BD is thinking though. They dont want to face the SA pace attack when the wicket is freshest. So instead of facing the music right away they probably want the wicket to ease, get used to condition etc.

Negative thinking.

Positive cricket is what has gotten us this far since 2014/15. And thats the attitude we must maintain. Sadly not in this tour so far.

Night_wolf
October 6, 2017, 05:10 AM
I think thats precisely what BD is thinking though. They dont want to face the SA pace attack when the wicket is freshest. So instead of facing the music right away they probably want the wicket to ease, get used to condition etc.

Negative thinking.

Positive cricket is what has gotten us this far since 2014/15. And thats the attitude we must maintain. Sadly not in this tour so far.

exactly, negative thinking from the team management and the captain.

they are trying to take the test as far as possible

IndYeah
October 6, 2017, 05:14 AM
I think thats precisely what BD is thinking though. They dont want to face the SA pace attack when the wicket is freshest. So instead of facing the music right away they probably want the wicket to ease, get used to condition etc.

Negative thinking.

Positive cricket is what has gotten us this far since 2014/15. And thats the attitude we must maintain. Sadly not in this tour so far.

What's all this clap-trap about positive and negative thinking? You evaluate the situation objectively and make the choice that's in the best interest of the team. Who cares if its "positive" or "negative"? MS Dhoni helped India win a test against Australia by slowing down the Aussie scoring with a 8-1 field for an hour - turning a situation where the Aussies were about to run away with the game, into one where a crucial wicket was obtained by slowing down the scoring. Was it "negative" cricket? who cares, it was effective. BD don't have the luxury of playing to the gallery and fulfilling expectations of over-ambitious fans. The captain knows the capability of his team best, and its a well-reasoned choice.

Some of you guys really need to be realistic about your team. Losing 3 or 4 quick wickets in the first sesson after a "positive" decision to bat first will only lose you the test match quickly, and the same fans who are chest-beating about the bad choice, will be all over the team and captain for their poor performance.

DinRaat.
October 6, 2017, 05:15 AM
If we batted first, we would of had a higher chance of putting up a decent total that our bowlers can have a go at, its all about positivity, the toss has lost half the game, and we all know who to blame.

Don't forget our batsmen are not rubbish in flat tracks like these, 1 or 2 good partnerships and we can stimulate a partnership of 100 and streamline ourselves to a total of 300.

Batting first would of eliminated the nerves of the bowlers and at the same let them have a idea on what they need to do.

IndYeah
October 6, 2017, 05:15 AM
I am more upset that you will be banned soon.

You should of opened a thread on that.

?? what exactly is your problem?

IndYeah
October 6, 2017, 05:18 AM
If we batted first, we would of had a higher chance of putting up a decent total that our bowlers can have a go at, its all about positivity, the toss has lost half the game, and we all know who to blame.

Don't forget our batsmen are not rubbish in flat tracks like these, 1 or 2 good partnerships and we can stimulate a partnership of 100 and streamline ourselves to a total of 300.

Batting first would of eliminated the nerves of the bowlers and at the same let them have a idea on what they need to do.

What makes you think you will have less chance of putting up a decent total if you bat second? Is the flat track suddenly going to start assisting bowlers on day 2 and 3?

In fact, a sub-par batting performance would put the bowlers under even more pressure if you bat first. You are making a baseless assumption that batting first would translate to a par or higher total by BD. Absolutely no evidence to back that claim up.

Jadukor
October 6, 2017, 05:34 AM
Because our bowling is weaker than our batting and we want to play to our strengths and make first use of the pitch. With 600 on board SA can put man around the bat the whole day and not to mention we would also have to bat last on the surface.

IndYeah
October 6, 2017, 05:45 AM
Because our bowling is weaker than our batting and we want to play to our strengths and make first use of the pitch. With 600 on board SA can put man around the bat the whole day and not to mention we would also have to bat last on the surface.

But is batting first really playing to your strengths? Wouldn't the batsmen benefit from seeing the Proteas bat and observing how the track is playing out? Wouldn't the weaker bowlers benefit from getting to bowl without the pressure of defending a sub-par total?

Jadukor
October 6, 2017, 05:49 AM
Nope.....

tiger1000
October 6, 2017, 05:55 AM
But is batting first really playing to your strengths? Wouldn't the batsmen benefit from seeing the Proteas bat and observing how the track is playing out? Wouldn't the weaker bowlers benefit from getting to bowl without the pressure of defending a sub-par total?

No, you either know little about cricket or are trolling

jeesh
October 6, 2017, 06:11 AM
IndYeah, you would have to know all abt BD cricket from the onset, watched every game, followed every coach to know the difference between positive and negative cricket. What you are stating is not incorrect eg. watching South Africans bat to get a flavor of wicket etc. But that was pre Hathurisingha BD cricket.

Hathurusingha came and changed the approach, we were no longer playing with defensive mindset, with defeat in mind.

Sadly that attitude seems to have vanished in this tour.

al Furqaan
October 6, 2017, 07:05 AM
I think thats precisely what BD is thinking though. They dont want to face the SA pace attack when the wicket is freshest. So instead of facing the music right away they probably want the wicket to ease, get used to condition etc.

Negative thinking.

Positive cricket is what has gotten us this far since 2014/15. And thats the attitude we must maintain. Sadly not in this tour so far.

No amount of positive thinking will win you a Test when you have guys like Sabbir, Mahmudullah, and Rubel in the side. We are missing 3 of our top 5 batters in Tamim, Shakib, and Musa. And our top spinner in Shakib as well.

I can live with batting second.

But it exposes our reliance on rank turners to compete with these types of teams. But we knew that already.

SA recently smashed AUS in Australia...they would and will steamroll any subcontinent side in SA.

IndYeah
October 6, 2017, 07:26 AM
IndYeah, you would have to know all abt BD cricket from the onset, watched every game, followed every coach to know the difference between positive and negative cricket. What you are stating is not incorrect eg. watching South Africans bat to get a flavor of wicket etc. But that was pre Hathurisingha BD cricket.

Hathurusingha came and changed the approach, we were no longer playing with defensive mindset, with defeat in mind.

Sadly that attitude seems to have vanished in this tour.

You don't have Tamim and Shaqib in your XI. You can't blindly think positive while being disconnected to reality.

Honestly, the posters on this thread have very unrealistic assumptions about BD's batting. If you are bringing a sword to a gun-fight, you don't charge the guy holding the gun, its best if you take cover and let him get close enough to you, where you can slash at him.


I'm being attacked by a couple of trolls, who don't realize that I'm actually rooting for BD against SA here. And as a well-wisher for the team, I think they made the right call in not batting first. Its another thing, that it hasn't worked out well, and the bowlers have failed to even control the scoring, let alone build pressure with some discipline and take some wickets. But that is after the fact.

Jadukor
October 6, 2017, 07:29 AM
What the hell is getting flavor of the wicket? Who voluntarily wants to stand on the field for two days at the mercy of an opposition declaration?

Night_wolf
October 6, 2017, 07:43 AM
What the hell is getting flavor of the wicket? Who voluntarily wants to stand on the field for two days at the mercy of an opposition declaration?

be realistic man, you suck

Eshen
October 6, 2017, 07:53 AM
Local boy Duanne Olivier gave a clear description in his pre-match interview how this pitch would behave: "I think on day one it will be a bit slow but then there'll be some bounce and it will quicken up towards day three and four,"

http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/20912455/green-bloemfontein-track-promises-pace-bouncehttp://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/20912455/green-bloemfontein-track-promises-pace-bounce

I understand our team management can't read a pitch to save their own lives, but why can't they listen to what others saying?!

One World
October 6, 2017, 08:48 AM
This comment from PA:

[বাংলা]মুশফিকুর রহিম ক্যাপ্টেন না থাকলে আজ এই হাল হতো না। নিজের শিশুসুলভ অধিনায়কত্ব দিয়ে তিনি পুরো দলের মানসিকতাটাই ধ্বংস করে দিয়েছেন। আজকের টস জিতে বল করার সিদ্ধান্ত জেদের বশে নেওয়া । কিন্তু মিঃ ক্যাপ্টেন, জেদ দিয়ে ক্রিকেট চলে না। শখ করে বিদেশের মাটিতে চতুর্থ ইনিংসে ব্যাট করার সিদ্ধান্ত কোনো সচেতন অধিনায়ক নিতে পারেন না। হাথুরু-মুশফিকের খামখেয়ালিতে দলের আজ এই দশা।[/বাংলা]

:up:

IndYeah
October 6, 2017, 08:49 AM
Local boy Duanne Olivier gave a clear description in his pre-match interview how this pitch would behave: "I think on day one it will be a bit slow but then there'll be some bounce and it will quicken up towards day three and four,"

http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/20912455/green-bloemfontein-track-promises-pace-bouncehttp://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/20912455/green-bloemfontein-track-promises-pace-bounce

I understand our team management can't read a pitch to save their own lives, but why can't they listen to what others saying?!

Because opponents can and often do lie and play mind-games with their statements?

Team should have the ability to read pitches, and have confidence in its own decisions. It shouldn't be depending on statements of rookie bowlers from the opposition.

Tigers_eye
October 6, 2017, 08:55 AM
So is the consensus here that BD made the wrong choice in fielding first? My dui poisha:

I was extremely upset in the 1st test, when the captain failed to read the pitch and chose to bat and in the end, BLASTED HIS BOWLERS (post match media session). You are the one putting them in to the firing line and you are the one calling them out after 90 all out to hide your deficiencies. :facepalm:

This is not the first time. People learn from their mistakes. I don't see that from our Test captain. That is why it is so frustrating.

When asked about what he would choose if he wins the toss, Du Plessis said, "I will leave it up to BD captain." What a shame.

#EndRant.

IndYeah
October 7, 2017, 08:39 AM
49/4. If they had batted first, match might be over by now.

Eclipse
October 7, 2017, 09:30 AM
49/4. If they had batted first, match might be over by now.

Dont bother making sense here. Mushy is our newly found scapegoat and ppl here love to blame him for everything. If u take that away from us u'll leave us with absolutely nothing to vent out our frustration.


Fact is mushy knows about our limitations more than our armchair experts which is why he opted to bowl first in the first test. He knew that if we had batted first we would've been destroyed by rabada and Co in the first test. He just wanted to save his team from sheer embarrassment.

al-Sagar
October 7, 2017, 09:49 AM
Now only a liton das 300 can save us from humiliation

IndYeah
October 7, 2017, 12:18 PM
Dont bother making sense here. Mushy is our newly found scapegoat and ppl here love to blame him for everything. If u take that away from us u'll leave us with absolutely nothing to vent out our frustration.


Fact is mushy knows about our limitations more than our armchair experts which is why he opted to bowl first in the first test. He knew that if we had batted first we would've been destroyed by rabada and Co in the first test. He just wanted to save his team from sheer embarrassment.

I see. That makes a lot of sense. I don't blame fans for being frustrated though. And the Captain is a natural target for a lot of agita

al Furqaan
October 7, 2017, 04:01 PM
Hell must have frozen over but the OP is right.

IndYeah
October 8, 2017, 07:31 AM
Hell must have frozen over but the OP is right.

Once you open your eyes to the light, there's no going back.

Roey Haque
October 8, 2017, 08:50 AM
^ No, you can circle jerk all you want.

And yes, I will be first to admit our limitations. But Mushfiqur is part of that limitation, he is not separate from it.

I am not saying we would have won, or even make it a close match. But to bat first twice in a row in batting friendly pitch is asinine. Especially, when you are supposed to show bravery in tests to make a statement on your team's improved skill.

Mushfiq has sabotaged it all, and if you know my posting history, I have been saying this for a long time, it's not like your thread was profound enough to warrant a reply. It's just I think you are smarter than that, and you want the fraudster captain to remain with us as long as possible so we continue to under perform.

Tigers_eye
October 8, 2017, 09:13 AM
...


Fact is mushy knows about our BD's limitations more than our BD fans armchair experts ....Call a spade a spade. If hiding batting limitation is the goal here then why blast the bowlers?

Come out of the closet and say it. We are weak at batting and I am one of the batsman who share the blame. That is why I chose to bowl first. No open secret.

Fazal
October 8, 2017, 12:02 PM
49/4. If they had batted first, match might be over by now.


So by your own admission, batting is one of the problem (not only bowling). But Mushfiq specifically blamed our bowers not the batsman or team as a whole. Its like creating a division within his team to save his own sorry a$$.

And that is reason most of the fans are mad at him.

i thought you are better than that, should be able to analyst by your own why so many fans are mad at Mushfiq. So sad that we have spoon feed you to realize why so many fans are mad at the cptain.

IndYeah
October 9, 2017, 07:59 AM
It's just I think you are smarter than that, and you want the fraudster captain to remain with us as long as possible so we continue to under perform.

WTF is this nonsense. Where have I said anything about Mushfiqur's captaincy? I don't follow BD cricket attentively enough to have an informed opinion on whether he's a good captain or not, or whether he should stay captain or not.

From what I saw of him when he played against India, and what I know of his stats, is that he is valuable to the team as a test match batsman. In fact, well before the one-off test against India, I remember advocating for him to play as a batsman.

My post was about the decision to field first. And I would have stuck to my opinion about it being correct, even if BD hadn't collapsed the way they did, and strengthened my argument.


By the way, your speculation about my motives is so completely off-base, all it does, is highlight your insecurities and complexes about how you feel about total strangers on the internet, simply because they are from a particular country. That's a very troubling way to think about things. Get well soon.

IndYeah
October 9, 2017, 08:03 AM
So by your own admission, batting is one of the problem (not only bowling). But Mushfiq specifically blamed our bowers not the batsman or team as a whole. Its like creating a division within his team to save his own sorry a$$.

And that is reason most of the fans are mad at him.

i thought you are better than that, should be able to analyst by your own why so many fans are mad at Mushfiq. So sad that we have spoon feed you to realize why so many fans are mad at the cptain.


What does the topic for this thread say? It doesn't ask why you are mad at Mushfiq. The question asked was, why so upset about batting 2nd.

Supporting the decision, doesn't mean I automatically support or endorse Mushfiq's captaincy.

By the way, Mushfiq's public statements on the subject of the toss decision, and his statements on this tour overall have been extremely poor and ill-judged. They betray a mindset of a man beseiged and under pressure, trying to justify himself and his mistakes.

He should never have thrown his bowlers under the bus like that, even if he was right. Which he is NOT.

Roey Haque
October 9, 2017, 06:05 PM
WTF is this nonsense. Where have I said anything about Mushfiqur's captaincy? I don't follow BD cricket attentively enough to have an informed opinion on whether he's a good captain or not, or whether he should stay captain or not.

From what I saw of him when he played against India, and what I know of his stats, is that he is valuable to the team as a test match batsman. In fact, well before the one-off test against India, I remember advocating for him to play as a batsman.

My post was about the decision to field first. And I would have stuck to my opinion about it being correct, even if BD hadn't collapsed the way they did, and strengthened my argument.


By the way, your speculation about my motives is so completely off-base, all it does, is highlight your insecurities and complexes about how you feel about total strangers on the internet, simply because they are from a particular country. That's a very troubling way to think about things. Get well soon.

You accuse me of complexes, then you say it's because I think you are from a particular country. Kind of self defeating isn't it? You think I care diddly-squat where you are from, no. It's just evil what you are trying to do by defending Mushfiqur. And yes, I don't think you have the best interest of Bangladesh in your heart when you know what an anti-charismatic presence he has been for us. And that is irrespective of any identity. Check your own complexes before projecting them on others.

Oh, and don't wish for my recovery. I am fine. Don't retort to snides. Won't get you anywhere.

Roy_1
October 9, 2017, 07:18 PM
IndYeah, sorry for butting in but I think this is a misunderstanding, Roye is a very decent poster, I have been posting here regularly for quite some time to know that there are a few members here with a tunnel vision when it comes to India and Roey most certainly isn't one of them. Let's not get carried away.

IndYeah
October 10, 2017, 09:26 AM
It's just evil what you are trying to do by defending Mushfiqur. And yes, I don't think you have the best interest of Bangladesh in your heart when you know what an anti-charismatic presence he has been for us.

Again. You have failed to read my posts, or the OP. I have not defended Mushfiq's sub-par leadership. I am arguing that his DECISION to field first was justified.

And do you have ANY basis for claiming that I "don't have the best interests of Bangladesh at heart"? Other than the fact that I'm of Indian origin?

Dude, I root for BD anytime they aren't playing against India. Its a different thing that I will not hesitate to put cocky and idiotic fans in their place.

Fazal
October 10, 2017, 09:41 AM
Ya... why are we upset? Boro dada said you connot be upset.

Oh bhoy paise.... we shouldn't be upset anymore.

IndYeah
October 10, 2017, 10:07 AM
Ya... why are we upset? Boro dada said you connot be upset.

Oh bhoy paise.... we shouldn't be upset anymore.

Exhibit A. Did your crush choose an Indian instead of you when you were young or something? Why such a chip on your shoulder about "boro dada". Why not argue the merits or lack of, of the question at hand?

Tigers_eye
October 10, 2017, 11:01 AM
What does the topic for this thread say? It doesn't ask why you are mad at Mushfiq. The question asked was, why so upset about batting 2nd.
...Because no sane person would shoot in their own foot. But the captain did it by deciding to bat first in both test and gave illogical answers to defend his decision.

If the pitch was green, condition overcast, bowling 1st would make sense. This doesn't make sense. Even to SA captain who was there to shake hands with a grin. :facepalm:

You start by giving the opponent advantage. We wouldn't be mad at that?

tiger1000
October 10, 2017, 11:01 AM
Again. You have failed to read my posts, or the OP. I have not defended Mushfiq's sub-par leadership. I am arguing that his DECISION to field first was justified.

And do you have ANY basis for claiming that I "don't have the best interests of Bangladesh at heart"? Other than the fact that I'm of Indian origin?

Dude, I root for BD anytime they aren't playing against India. Its a different thing that I will not hesitate to put cocky and idiotic fans in their place.

It wasn't justified, if you think it was, you know very little about the game

Fazal
October 10, 2017, 11:46 AM
Exhibit A. Did your crush choose an Indian instead of you when you were young or something? Why such a chip on your shoulder about "boro dada". Why not argue the merits or lack of, of the question at hand?

There is no merit in your thread. Read what the experts and reporters in SA and Bangladesh are saying. If you don't get it, you will never get it.

This thread and where its going is a perfect example what idiotic thread is. You are more than welcome to express your opinion, but learn how to gracefully agree to disagree here. Don't try to show your cockiness here. Dada giri onno khane dekhao.


You may say where I was disrespectful?

Here it is:


Its a different thing that I will not hesitate to put cocky and idiotic fans in their place.I am following what you said in the above statement. I am putting you in the appropriate place.

Fazal
October 10, 2017, 11:56 AM
And do you have ANY basis for claiming that I "don't have the best interests of Bangladesh at heart"? Other than the fact that I'm of Indian origin?

Dude, I root for BD anytime they aren't playing against India.

Sure with friends like that who need enemy?

Eclipse
October 10, 2017, 06:33 PM
None of our fans should have blamed mushy for choosing to bowl first. He made the right call.


But I can understand why some of our BD fans r feeling frustrated right now. The myth about the high quality of our bowling attack have already been busted and we have been made to realise that none of our bowlers especially pacers are skillful enough to take wickets in test cricket.


Ppl had high hopes for fizz & taskin and thought they would become a great pair and win us matches with their bowling alone, especially outside Asia. They didn't realise the fact that fizz is a gun barrel straight bowler who doesn't have the ability to swing the ball. But now they have realised that fizz and taskin r as mediocre as the rest of the Bangladeshi bowlers which is why they have become hopeless and frustrated and they r venting out their frustration on poor mushy for a simple toss instead of criticising overhyped fizz, taskin or Roy.

Eclipse
October 10, 2017, 06:41 PM
It wasn't justified, if you think it was, you know very little about the game

Why wasn't it justified. Tell us specifically. What would've happened if Bangladesh had batted first?

al Furqaan
October 10, 2017, 07:06 PM
Ppl had high hopes for fizz & taskin and thought they would become a great pair and win us matches with their bowling alone, especially outside Asia. They didn't realise the fact that fizz is a gun barrel straight bowler who doesn't have the ability to swing the ball. But now they have realised that fizz and taskin r as mediocre as the rest of the Bangladeshi bowlers which is why they have become hopeless and frustrated and they r venting out their frustration on poor mushy for a simple toss instead of criticising overhyped fizz, taskin or Roy.

None of the SA quicks swung the ball either. Rabada got some to reverse, but Fizz can reverse the ball as well.

Actually Fizz did get a hint of swing in the 2nd Test.

Fizz averages 25 in Asia, so whatever he is doing, fast bowlers from India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka should be taking notes.

IndYeah
October 11, 2017, 08:09 AM
None of the SA quicks swung the ball either. Rabada got some to reverse, but Fizz can reverse the ball as well.

Actually Fizz did get a hint of swing in the 2nd Test.

Fizz averages 25 in Asia, so whatever he is doing, fast bowlers from India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka should be taking notes.

Didn't watch bulk of the test, but one shouldn't jump to conclusions and be overly harsh about individual bowlers' ability or skill levels based on such results. I have to disagree with Eclipse's chest-beating and self-flagellating over BD's bowling.

Its the nature of test cricket, that bowlers have to hunt in packs. You could be a singularly great bowler, but if the pressure is being released at the other end, you could easily end up with pedestrian figures. This is the reason why quality bowlers like Kapil ended up with less than stellar career numbers - they simply didn't have the depth in the bowling unit to provide adequate back-up. Fizz could be suffering from this as well. Taskin, I think has got a long way to go in his development curve, anyway. Even in LOIs, forget tests.

Clearly, South Africa had the quality and depth to maintain pressure, while BD didn't.


As far as back as the BD tour to NZ, I had posted about Subashish Roy looking the part of a test bowler. I haven't watched entire spells by him, and he is still raw and prone to inconsistency - but the guy has potential to be a good complimentary piece in a test bowling attack. He should be given a consistent run in test cricket by BD.