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DinRaat.
February 12, 2018, 05:28 AM
How successful are you?

How do you define success is it something tangible and quantifiable or do you think success is irrelevant.


At my stage in like I think it would be hard to say, how successful I am. But that may not be the case for many veterans in this forum.

So on a scale of 1-10 with 10 being the most successful, how successful are you.

I forgot to add a poll.

iDumb
February 12, 2018, 05:42 AM
very subjective. Depends who you ask.

Growing up, one of my best friends mom wouold say I am very successful - but she is comparing me to her son.

To me I rate it at 2. I am not even trying :p

iDumb
February 12, 2018, 05:48 AM
I think success should be measured by goals in your life.

If your goal is to be happy - success should be measured by how happy you are.
if your goal is to be rich - success shoudl be measured by how much money you make.
if your goal is to be famous - success should be measured by how many youtube hits you get

so on and so forth...

DinRaat.
February 12, 2018, 05:53 AM
I think success should be measured by goals in your life.

If your goal is to be happy - success should be measured by how happy you are.
if your goal is to be rich - success shoudl be measured by how much money you make.
if your goal is to be famous - success should be measured by how many youtube hits you get

so on and so forth...

So what are your goals in life.

iDumb
February 12, 2018, 06:02 AM
So what are your goals in life.

be happy, bed multiple women, be free, be a multi millionaires, change lives of others for better, be someone's role model, be the best among peers... and the list goes on.

So 2/10 , maybe 1/10.

whats yours?

I will be happy if i can get to 5/10 before i die. Seems very unlikely.

DinRaat.
February 12, 2018, 06:09 AM
be happy, bed multiple women, be free, be a multi millionaires, change lives of others for better, be someone's role model, be the best among peers... and the list goes on.

So 2/10 , maybe 1/10.

whats yours?

I will be happy if i can get to 5/10 before i die. Seems very unlikely.

I think the list will get shorter as we get older.

1.Have a legacy.
2. Make the world a better place.

Those are mine at the moment.

Jadukor
February 12, 2018, 06:18 AM
1. Be loved and respected by friends, family and colleagues. 9/10
2. Save enough for a luxurious retirememt. 5/10
3. Quit wasting time on BC. 1/10

DinRaat.
February 12, 2018, 06:30 AM
1. Be loved and respected by friends, family and colleagues. 9/10
2. Save enough for a luxurious retirememt. 5/10
3. Quit wasting time on BC. 1/10

The last one gonna take some willpower. :D

DinRaat.
February 12, 2018, 06:37 AM
What do you guys live for, honestly has any of you asked yourself that question.
I honestly don't know what I am living for.

iDumb
February 12, 2018, 06:38 AM
I think the list will get shorter as we get older.

1.Have a legacy.
2. Make the world a better place.

Those are mine at the moment.


That is extremely hard to achieve. I think you should set lower goals in life. I think the way you measure your success should evolve (not necesarily get shorter) as you age. For you now, perhaps getting good grades, getting into good post-grad, getting the job or the degree u wanted should be your yardstick of success.. once you achieve that you will say - Meh - that was nothing... and your goals evolve - the way you measure success evolve...

When i think of success - schooling doesn't even cross my mind for a second now because it's over. It's an after thought. Now you are no longer sorrounded by ppl from highschool who u left behind. Now you in fields with ppl who had done it better. I work side by side with some ivy league grads who puts my education to shame.. My success yardstick is against them now... and once i can topple that - it will be something else.

Now going back to my friend whose mom thinks i am a great success compare to her son - but I am jealous of him. she doesn't know that. He got all the hot girls growing up and i wish i was like him. so i am a failure :p

so you see not all can have it all like Donald Trump - the ultimate successful man on earth.

iDumb
February 12, 2018, 06:42 AM
I honestly don't know what I am living for.

why do you have to live for anything? Just living... eating sleeping watching spors using the net is pleasurable. No?

Life is so beautiful despite the pain sometimes it inflicts on us. Knowing to tackle it and manuevering it is cool..

Just be glad u are not thinking where your next meal is coming from.

DinRaat.
February 12, 2018, 06:43 AM
That is extremely hard to achieve. I think you should set lower goals in life. I think the way you measure your success should evolve (not necesarily get shorter) as you age. For you now, perhaps getting good grades, getting into good post-grad, getting the job or the degree u wanted should be your yardstick of success.. once you achieve that you will say - Meh - that was nothing... and your goals evolve - the way you measure success evolve...

When i think of success - schooling doesn't even cross my mind for a second now because it's over. It's an after thought. Now you are no longer sorrounded by ppl from highschool who u left behind. Now you in fields with ppl who had done it better. I work side by side with some ivy league grads who puts my education to shame.. My success yardstick is against them now... and once i can topple that - it will be something else.

Now going back to my friend whose mom thinks i am a great success compare to her son - but I am jealous of him. she doesn't know that. He got all the hot girls growing up and i wish i was like him. so i am a failure :p

so you see not all can have it all like Donald Trump - the ultimate successful man on earth.

Then isn't it just endless,you will be in a cycle of ambition, wanting more and more until you die.

iDumb
February 12, 2018, 06:51 AM
Then isn't it just endless,you will be in a cycle of ambition, wanting more and more until you die.

lol yeah I guess.. Maybe I should change the way I think. Maybe some insight from some memebers here will be helpful

But that's life. How outside perceive you vs how you perceive yourself is always gonna be different.

My friend's mom view of my life being success has no positive impact on me when I can't find satisfaction in life. I am living my life - no one else.

If you can wire yourself to think you are successful and happy in life - that would be great i think.

DinRaat.
February 12, 2018, 06:51 AM
Is getting married and having kids really worth it, seems overrated imo.

SportingBD
February 12, 2018, 06:52 AM
Health - 6/10
Wealth - 3/10

Life = (6+3)/2 = 4.5

iDumb
February 12, 2018, 06:56 AM
Is getting married and having kids really worth it, seems overrated imo.

haha. you ahve to discover yourself to know the answer to this question if marriage and kids are right for you.

this decision will have the most impact in your life.

If you ask me - it's not worth it. If you ask someone else, they will say - they can't think of a life without their wife or atleast children. So you have to know yourself.

Good luck and don't rush to any decisions.

DinRaat.
February 12, 2018, 07:15 AM
haha. you ahve to discover yourself to know the answer to this question if marriage and kids are right for you.

this decision will have the most impact in your life.

If you ask me - it's not worth it. If you ask someone else, they will say - they can't think of a life without their wife or atleast children. So you have to know yourself.

Good luck and don't rush to any decisions.

How did you know that it was not worth it did it just come to you.

Or was it by second hand examples.

Jadukor
February 12, 2018, 07:20 AM
Is getting married and having kids really worth it, seems overrated imo.

Those are outcomes of a relationship you will have with your loved one. Nobody gets into a relationship with the objective of marriage and kids upfront. That is a recipe for unhapiness and disaster. If there is chemistry it will evolve into love and at a certain time you will naturally feel like taking the next step. You will also discover that it is worth living also for that someone you truely love.

SportingBD
February 12, 2018, 07:34 AM
Those are outcomes of a relationship you will have with your loved one. Nobody gets into a relationship with the objective of marriage and kids upfront. That is a recipe for unhapiness and disaster. If there is chemistry it will evolve into love and at a certain time you will naturally feel like taking the next step. You will also discover that it is worth living also for that someone you truely love.

Hmm. What is love? There are many examples of how men become a different person when the women he loves and marries doesn’t give him a child. Many times, even if the women gives birth to child and it’s a girl, the men wants another, he tries for a boy. The romantic guys those who believe in love say well it’s not true love. Than I ask.. what those men have gone through, have you? Imagine loving someone, but she has some problems, can’t give birth to a child? So many examples of those so called love turning the wrong way when the women can’t give what you want.

Eventually marriage is about children/family, be it covered with the tag ‘love marriage’ or ‘arranged marriage’. The example above I used is of a European, I personally know that person. She went through some tough time, until she had her second child, luckily a boy.

DinRaat.
February 12, 2018, 07:56 AM
Love is something intangible, it has no mathematical proof or theorem we can understand. I guess its a sort of carnal instinct, separates us from the animals.

DinRaat.
February 12, 2018, 07:57 AM
Hmm. What is love? There are many examples of how men become a different person when the women he loves and marries doesn’t give him a child. Many times, even if the women gives birth to child and it’s a girl, the men wants another, he tries for a boy. The romantic guys those who believe in love say well it’s not true love. Than I ask.. what those men have gone through, have you? Imagine loving someone, but she has some problems, can’t give birth to a child? So many examples of those so called love turning the wrong way when the women can’t give what you want.

Eventually marriage is about children/family, be it covered with the tag ‘love marriage’ or ‘arranged marriage’. The example above I used is of a European, I personally know that person. She went through some tough time, until she had her second child, luckily a boy.

This is a good post.

Jadukor
February 12, 2018, 08:21 AM
Hmm. What is love? There are many examples of how men become a different person when the women he loves and marries doesn’t give him a child. Many times, even if the women gives birth to child and it’s a girl, the men wants another, he tries for a boy. The romantic guys those who believe in love say well it’s not true love. Than I ask.. what those men have gone through, have you? Imagine loving someone, but she has some problems, can’t give birth to a child? So many examples of those so called love turning the wrong way when the women can’t give what you want.

Eventually marriage is about children/family, be it covered with the tag ‘love marriage’ or ‘arranged marriage’. The example above I used is of a European, I personally know that person. She went through some tough time, until she had her second child, luckily a boy.

I was speaking to dinraat who didnt seem to have a backward mentality like the men you describe. If he does then it is unfortunate for him and the girl. I dont hangout with people with that kind of medieval mindset so cant really relate or give you a nuanced answer.

SportingBD
February 12, 2018, 08:48 AM
I was speaking to dinraat who didnt seem to have a backward mentality like the men you describe. If he does then it is unfortunate for him and the girl. I dont hangout with people with that kind of medieval mindset so cant really relate or give you a nuanced answer.

What I find frightening is the divorce rate that’s increasing with love marriage.
You ought to think that it’s love marriage and things will be smooth and rosy.

But in reality, love marriage is having more problems than arranged marriage these days! Shocking to be honest.

DinRaat.
February 12, 2018, 08:51 AM
What I find frightening is the divorce rate that’s increasing with love marriage.
You ought to think that it’s love marriage and things will be smooth and rosy.

But in reality, love marriage is having more problems than arranged marriage these days! Shocking to be honest.

Salam brother.

Kind question: Do you have any stats to back that up.

SportingBD
February 12, 2018, 08:57 AM
Salam brother.

Kind question: Do you have any stats to back that up.

Wasalam bro. Google it. You will find many.

This quick one I found from Google. But outdated.

GUJRANWALA (Dunya News) – According to a report finalized by collecting data from the courts in Gujranwala, a fierce increase has been reported in divorces of love marriages in 2015. http://dunyanews.tv/en/Pakistan/319562-In-2015-divorce-rate-was-high-in-love-marriages-i

You will find latest stats on Mr. Google.

From my personal observation of our Bangladeshi community here in UK and seeing how many love marriage end in divorces, I can say it’s frightening.

Jadukor
February 12, 2018, 09:02 AM
be happy, bed multiple women, be free, be a multi millionaires, change lives of others for better, be someone's role model, be the best among peers... and the list goes on.



Might wanna add a LG UHD wallpaper tv. Those tvs looks amazing and would certainly lead to happiness

iDumb
February 12, 2018, 09:39 AM
Might wanna add a LG UHD wallpaper tv. Those tvs looks amazing and would certainly lead to happiness

Haha ..can't argue it would look amazing but not sure it would lead to happiness though. I am not really a big movie or tv person.

But that's a good yardstick of success. The size and thinness of your tv.

DinRaat.
February 12, 2018, 09:44 AM
Haha ..can't argue it would look amazing but not sure it would lead to happiness though. I am not really a big movie or tv person.

But that's a good yardstick of success. The size and thinness of your tv.

Meh projectors are the future.

One World
February 12, 2018, 10:22 AM
I think I will grade myself to 1.2 out of 10.

I lived too long for other people, and now I cannot even see to live only for myself in distant future. Everyday I act dumber than my usual self. When I am gone, the world will regret more than it will mourn.

DinRaat.
February 12, 2018, 10:27 AM
I think I will grade myself to 1.2 out of 10.

I lived too long for other people, and now I cannot even see to live only for myself in distant future. Everyday I act dumber than my usual self. When I am gone, the world will regret more than it will mourn.

Didn't quite catch the last line.

DinRaat.
February 13, 2018, 07:44 AM
How do you guys know when you have made it.

I know for a fact that I will be very disappointed If I am stuck with an 100K job, honestly people get impressed easily, when they hear you have a six figure salary. What's the point of an education if your just making 100k a year or a bit more, pretty pointless IMO.

A train driver can earn 100k, a taxi driver can earn 100k.

I won't be satisfied until I earn at least 300-400k

Even then I probably won't stop. How do you stop from being hungry/ambitious. For me its just an endless cycle.

I like to live by the idea of "work hard now, relax later"

Jadukor
February 13, 2018, 08:08 AM
I like to live by the idea of "work hard now, relax later"

Yeah i totally get that hard working vibe from you by seeing you here in BC

DinRaat.
February 13, 2018, 08:10 AM
Yeah i totally get that hard working vibe from you by seeing you here in BC

Its good to relax once in a while. Don't assume.

Yankees
February 13, 2018, 03:50 PM
How do you guys know when you have made it.

I know for a fact that I will be very disappointed If I am stuck with an 100K job, honestly people get impressed easily, when they hear you have a six figure salary. What's the point of an education if your just making 100k a year or a bit more, pretty pointless IMO.

A train driver can earn 100k, a taxi driver can earn 100k.

I won't be satisfied until I earn at least 300-400k

Even then I probably won't stop. How do you stop from being hungry/ambitious. For me its just an endless cycle.

I like to live by the idea of "work hard now, relax later"

Let me tell you something, the chances of you getting a job that pays 300k+ is incredibly low. You want to make those kinds of figures, become an entrepreneur. A "job" will never make you rich (especially engineering salaries, which I think you are studying?).

There are literally millions of guys like you that think "oh I can just climb the corporate ladder till I become CEO" and there's only a handful of CEOs. So do the math.

At some point, you will reach your ceiling and be put in your place, and by then you will be so beaten up and tired, you won't care anymore, and it will be too late.

Otoh, entrepreneurs can and do become millionaires. There are plumbers, who've started plumbing businesses and living the life you want. It's still very difficult, but the probability of success is much higher than working your way up to becoming CEO.

tl;dr hard work =/= 300k+ salary

Zeeshan
February 13, 2018, 04:20 PM
Well I am posting on BC no?

One World
February 13, 2018, 04:25 PM
Didn't quite catch the last line.

Exactly, wait till I am gone ;)

Zeeshan
February 13, 2018, 04:33 PM
Well I am posting on BC no?

It can actually go either way. I mean tbh I found my deepest fulfillment in life pouring time and effort in Cricket Curiosities. There are at times when I felt I was born to do this.

If some genie gave me three choices - come to think of it where I get to play characters such as:

1. Navy SEAL who solved Riemann Hypothesis
2. Taoist monk who memorized entire Britannica
3. Pansy sissy Zeesh (NOT jeesh! trust me we had some confusion over it in official Tigers website back in the days) loving his life being lost in thoughts, videos and weirdities of cricket...

I would actually take 3 in heartbeat. Although the glitzy allure of "success" would be "making it" all big shot and shi.. rich, fame, prestige... I have -after giving some matured thoughts- realize it is really about living EACH AND EVERY SINGLE moment in deep awe, appreciation and gratitude of life breathing this air in a beautiful universe..

THAT is success in my humble opinion.
THAT is Taoism in full effect.

THAT is being in center of the beatific vision.

Unfortunately society conflates living effortless in harmony with nature as lazy and bum like and yet rewards Puritan mentality.

How sad!

Almost as if waking up from a dream one night to realize ..sure it was meaningless, but why didn't I make a meaning out of it instead of living someone else's dream?

shingara... neu.. dhoro.. ki bolba bolo..tomar pala..

Zeeshan
February 13, 2018, 04:37 PM
I also think in the strict purest sense success is making the 'cut' in a ----no shoot. Don't mean to brag. *adjusts tie*

iDumb
February 13, 2018, 04:55 PM
Let me tell you something, the chances of you getting a job that pays 300k+ is incredibly low.

what you talking about man? Earning 300K in technology field is very common. Facebook interns make 100k. I am sorrounded by ppl with that level of income from w2. It's not really a lot of money. You ain't gonna be ballin I can tell u that.

But yes entrepreneurship is where the real money is at.

DinRaat.
February 13, 2018, 06:17 PM
How do you know when you have the right product do you go looking for it or does it just suddenly come to you.

Will it also be effective if I take an course in Lean Six Sigma.

Jadukor
February 13, 2018, 07:59 PM
I guess we have to hear more about those 100k interns next week.

One way to guess how much you are likely to earn is just look at average salaries by occupation.

Completely agree with Yankees

R0ssei
February 23, 2018, 12:35 PM
what you talking about man? Earning 300K in technology field is very common. Facebook interns make 100k. I am sorrounded by ppl with that level of income from w2. It's not really a lot of money. You ain't gonna be ballin I can tell u that.

But yes entrepreneurship is where the real money is at.

You have to be an EVP or SVP to make 300K in Canada in an engineering company.

Only a handful of companies (US-based) pay ~100K to interns and people think that is all in tech field. For a fair comparison, Facebook interns can make 96K while interns in Intel will likely to make 65K. Google Canada pays around 70K to interns.

I work for a power company (public) and it pays 55K-60K to an intern. We have 5,500 employees (mostly electrical engineers/technicians/technologists) in total and only 10-15 people make over 200K.

DinRaat.
February 23, 2018, 06:29 PM
I have seen some jobs on SEEK for software engineers, and have noticed that contract work pays the most.

Is it better to work on contract and give up the securities of full time employment, some contract jobs pay 1000-400 dollars per day for a 1 year to 6 month contract.

iDumb
February 24, 2018, 08:20 AM
You have to be an EVP or SVP to make 300K in Canada in an engineering company.

Only a handful of companies (US-based) pay ~100K to interns and people think that is all in tech field. For a fair comparison, Facebook interns can make 96K while interns in Intel will likely to make 65K. Google Canada pays around 70K to interns.

I work for a power company (public) and it pays 55K-60K to an intern. We have 5,500 employees (mostly electrical engineers/technicians/technologists) in total and only 10-15 people make over 200K.

Power companies are notorious for paying low. When i said in techonology field I don't mean engineering only. It's mostly in the internet companies like fb, google, apple, microsoft etc etc.

there are massive recruitment fighting to poach talent. Sure you look at average salary on net, you will not realize how much talented young ppl are being paid by these companies.... i think 200 to 300k is just a drop in the bucket when you take into consideriation the stocks options and other compensation they get on top.

when I mentioned about ppl sorrounding me, i guess it was not a fair comparison as they are all in medical field and i don't know a single one who is making less than 200k. Couple that met in college with dual average income can get into household income in 200 to 250K area with regular simple jobs...None of these ppl are anywhere close to ballin. Only thing they are doing better than others are that they are not living pay check to pay check.

So while the number looks high.. when you actually live through it, you will realize, you are just like everyone else trying to survive...

So dinraats cab driver analogy is good but his target salary i don't think will make him any happier.... But I think once you start going close to a million dollar income.. that's when you start ballin and money doesn't become an issue anymore.

So lesson.. Invest Early... look at the bigger picture. 100k 200k 300k they all same. How one saves and invests will dictate how they will achieve financial independence. as long as you have problem with money flow when you are not working under someone, you haven't made it.

iDumb
February 24, 2018, 08:23 AM
San francisco houses wouldn't all be million dollars for tiny shithole if those comapnies compensation was in 60ks. Trust me

DinRaat.
February 24, 2018, 08:33 AM
Power companies are notorious for paying low. When i said in techonology field I don't mean engineering only. It's mostly in the internet companies like fb, google, apple, microsoft etc etc.

there are massive recruitment fighting to poach talent. Sure you look at average salary on net, you will not realize how much talented young ppl are being paid by these companies.... i think 200 to 300k is just a drop in the bucket when you take into consideriation the stocks options and other compensation they get on top.

when I mentioned about ppl sorrounding me, i guess it was not a fair comparison as they are all in medical field and i don't know a single one who is making less than 200k. Couple that met in college with dual average income can get into household income in 200 to 250K area with regular simple jobs...None of these ppl are anywhere close to ballin. Only thing they are doing better than others are that they are not living pay check to pay check.

So while the number looks high.. when you actually live through it, you will realize, you are just like everyone else trying to survive...

So dinraats cab driver analogy is good but his target salary i don't think will make him any happier.... But I think once you start going close to a million dollar income.. that's when you start ballin and money doesn't become an issue anymore.

So lesson.. Invest Early... look at the bigger picture. 100k 200k 300k they all same. How one saves and invests will dictate how they will achieve financial independence. as long as you have problem with money flow when you are not working under someone, you haven't made it.

Are you a doctor.

One World
February 24, 2018, 01:07 PM
How unsuccessful are you?

Rifat
February 25, 2018, 06:57 PM
Disclaimer: my post may offend certain people. ;)



https://78.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_kzs506d3v31qzrr0co1_1280.png

For me, Earning Money is as successful as the following: does it cover for all my needs and wants plus savings. I can proudly say, YES Alhamdulillah! for different people the needs are different. For me being wealthy, is not necessarily how much you earn, but how much you save and what you do with your money. I am of the mentality to get the most bang for the buck(Islamic concept: Barakah). sometimes, in my life that doesn't exactly happen. I start backtracking and try to figure out what is it I am doing wrong and work from there....

If you have a Family that deeply cares about you, If you have friends that deeply cares about you. If you have a roof over your head and you can enjoy the tastiest of meals whenever and wherever you want. If you have no debts(You don't owe anybody anything at any level). Everyone thinks very good things about you or you have no enemies(You are well respected in Society generally speaking)... If you are able to save a substantial amount after month's work (or weeks work), If you are not stressed at work. If you lead a very well balanced healthy lifestyle where The Almighty has granted you good health and free time. That is in my word definition of Worldly Success.

Example: someone may make 3x or 5x more times money(or maybe more) then me: but ultimately, if that person has no inner peace and constantly stressed out then what success is that? If these people have absolutely no free time no enjoy themselves, then what benefit all this wealth bring then? what's the point of having all that money when after your death someone else or the state will inherit that while you forgot to enjoy your life or spend it on things that matter the most.

Advice to Dinraat and others in a similar boat: Don't worry about money. Figure out what you are really really good at and pursue that and become the best at it. money and the world will then chase you ;).

However, one day all of these will come to end. what's the point then? who will remember you? maybe for one day or two days or one week or few months your close family and friends will grieve. but then they will forget and move on with their life. what is your legacy? Even if i invent something or some concept, I will only be remembered for my invention/idea and nothing else. such a depressing thought, isn't it? what was it that you were meant to do on earth? The ultimate success therefore, is this:


1) You enter Paradise without any form of suffering in the hereafter or in the grave. Allah mentions in the Qur'an how He created mankind and Jinn solely for his worship. If we achieve all there is to achieve in this life but we neglect the purpose that which we were created for. we are completely useless. our existence is meaningless except for our own pitiful enjoyment and entertainment which has no everlasting value after our departure from this world.

The pleasures and treasures of this world may be very tempting but is nothing compared to what Allah has prepared for those who worked hard to please him. This is a reminder for myself as sometimes I get sidetracked from what's really important.

Jadukor
February 25, 2018, 08:46 PM
San francisco houses wouldn't all be million dollars for tiny shithole if those comapnies compensation was in 60ks. Trust me

Eto assumption er ki dorkar jekhane you have info available online? Just look at Bureau of labor statistics by state. Mean wage per year by management fuction dewa asey.

iDumb
February 25, 2018, 09:02 PM
Eto assumption er ki dorkar jekhane you have info available online? Just look at Bureau of labor statistics by state. Mean wage per year by management fuction dewa asey.

Because they do not reflect what is being paid by these tech companies to their top programmers. Mean wage means nothing.. neither does median. Point is you don't have to become CEO, you can make a lot of money just by being a top notch programmer in these tech companies. Actual wages many get are hard to deduce from online because there are so much wide variations. It's good yardstick for your joe schmoe looking for a job but if you are in demand you would be selling yourself short if you go by those.

Look at this recent article.

http://www.businessinsider.com/tech-workers-cant-afford-silicon-valley-housing-prices-2018-2


So one of those Faang employees they are writing if they want to live near their work site , they have to shell out 30 percent of their pretax income for average housing whose mortage is on average 5200.

that comes out to be ~17000 usd a month or >200K a year. We are talking about average here and simply salary. So there are many that are getting stocks options, and much much higher pay. Back in the days, it was the management, ceos and all the other bullshit ppl getting money but now these companies pay a lot to the right employees.

these are not assumptions.. logical deductions.. and knowledge of the field. Not simply just from labor data which are not always in line with reality.


same article in yahoo.. if they give you ad block problem:
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/silicon-valley-expensive-even-facebook-150000626.html

just came out right time for my post :)

iDumb
February 25, 2018, 09:06 PM
/Also some of the benefits these ppl provide are interest free loan for housing, sign on bonus etc etc.

Even I get emails from recruiter (non tech field) time to time and the benefits they lay out from that area-- 200K sign on bonus (yes that's right 200). Interest free house loans 30 year mortgage. and then your top notch salary and benefits. You will not see these data from your labor stats. The right candidate get these. And there are many many positions like that... not one CEO (they are in million category) - so I think when yankees wrote his post -he wrote it from lack of knowledge. that's the point.!

iDumb
February 25, 2018, 09:19 PM
Disclaimer: my post may offend certain people. ;)


I don't know why it would offend anyone.

Rifat, I like your post. I like the way how you wrote the thinking needs to evolve and should be in relations to everything else and money isn't everythign. All true.

But I fail to see how your post is relevant to making what is your worth. Problems in life that will drag you down will be there whether you make 300 dollars a month or 3 million a month.

Ppl always assume making higher money creates problems in life--- this is a very wrong assumption. It is actually the opposite. Money will make many problems in life will go away. And not all who makes money do not spend time with family.

Everything in life is important. Ppl talk about health. Rich ppl are healthier because they can afford to eat the best food, have time to go to work out and not worry about many things in life to keep their mental health is check :) A bad disease or accident can strike anyone regardless of money but i fail to see how having more money is a problem that ppl always bring up this and that...

And you should not compare your self to rest of the destitute world where malnutrition is a problem. You want to establish yourself to the point where you can actually help that population instead of worry about your own next housing and meal. i hope that makes sense.

Rifat
February 25, 2018, 10:11 PM
/Also some of the benefits these ppl provide are interest free loan for housing, sign on bonus etc etc.

Even I get emails from recruiter (non tech field) time to time and the benefits they lay out from that area-- 200K sign on bonus (yes that's right 200). Interest free house loans 30 year mortgage. and then your top notch salary and benefits. You will not see these data from your labor stats. The right candidate get these. And there are many many positions like that... not one CEO (they are in million category) - so I think when yankees wrote his post -he wrote it from lack of knowledge. that's the point.!

Dude, that is a sweet offer. I would have gone for it. my biggest concern is that i have family and friends so I am stuck to a location but other than that, it is hard to say no to an offer like that.

Jadukor
February 25, 2018, 10:24 PM
Because they do not reflect what is being paid by these tech companies to their top programmers. Mean wage means nothing.. neither does median. Point is you don't have to become CEO, you can make a lot of money just by being a top notch programmer in these tech companies. Actual wages many get are hard to deduce from online because there are so much wide variations. It's good yardstick for your joe schmoe looking for a job but if you are in demand you would be selling yourself short if you go by those.

Look at this recent article.

http://www.businessinsider.com/tech-workers-cant-afford-silicon-valley-housing-prices-2018-2


So one of those Faang employees they are writing if they want to live near their work site , they have to shell out 30 percent of their pretax income for average housing whose mortage is on average 5200.

that comes out to be ~17000 usd a month or >200K a year. We are talking about average here and simply salary. So there are many that are getting stocks options, and much much higher pay. Back in the days, it was the management, ceos and all the other bullshit ppl getting money but now these companies pay a lot to the right employees.

these are not assumptions.. logical deductions.. and knowledge of the field. Not simply just from labor data which are not always in line with reality.


same article in yahoo.. if they give you ad block problem:
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/silicon-valley-expensive-even-facebook-150000626.html

just came out right time for my post :)

The BLS data is much more reliable than your assumptions based on your rich and obviously skilled neighborhood friends. BLS is the main agency that provide all the data to congress on labor economics and statistics. They do surveys on a sample of 1.2 million companies.

Top tech companies paying high amounts to their programmers isnt news. If you are an intern at apple, good for you! No one is doubting that if you are bright and briliant enough you can make money in the US. If you set your expectation on what Facebook Google and Apple pays then more often than not you would be frustrated as a recent graduate. The reason you do averages is because by that you factor in best and the brightest together with the wider population of average intellect and skill

iDumb
February 25, 2018, 10:29 PM
The BLS data is much more reliable than your assumptions based on your rich and obviously skilled neighborhood friends. BLS is the main agency that provide all the data to congress on labor economics and statistics. They do surveys on a sample of 1.2 million companies.

Top tech companies paying high amounts to their programmers isnt news. If you are an intern at apple, good for you! No one is doubting that if you are bright and briliant enough you can make money in the US. If you set your expectation on what Facebook Google and Apple pays then more often than not you would be frustrated as a recent graduate. The reason you do averages is because by that you factor in best and the brightest together with the wider population of average intellect and skill

Again logical deductions and knowledge of the field aren't assumptions. They are better than any BLS data. While I do not disagree data are a good yeardstick.. telling an engineering or programming student who wants to earn 300K to separate himself from 100k cabdrivers that he will never get to that level because only CEOs get those and there is only one ceo is not only a poor asinine advice but shows dearth of knowledge of the field.

iDumb
February 25, 2018, 10:36 PM
Dude, that is a sweet offer. I would have gone for it. my biggest concern is that i have family and friends so I am stuck to a location but other than that, it is hard to say no to an offer like that.

yeah it looks sweet. But the thing is for an engineer/programmer - silicon valley is where the real money is. But for a physician, that level of income can be had anywhere in the country. That 200K signon bonus and interest free loan is obviously to cancel out the housing cost (down payment on a million dollar house and subsidizing loans) as they realize the first thing a candidate will think of is the housing cost there but they will most likely sign you up for a 5 year contract or so. It would be a good offer for anyone already living there and wants to stay there but hard to justify for someone else from another part of the country to leave and go into one of the most expensive area in the world.

Why would someone who went trhough 8 years of extra education and training missing out on that many years of income and go into an area earning below a undergrad student in the tech field when he has other options.

but yeah still an enticing offer and u can think of that house as an investment gift by working there perhaps.

Rifat
February 25, 2018, 10:44 PM
I don't know why it would offend anyone.

Rifat, I like your post. I like the way how you wrote the thinking needs to evolve and should be in relations to everything else and money isn't everythign. All true.

But I fail to see how your post is relevant to making what is your worth. Problems in life that will drag you down will be there whether you make 300 dollars a month or 3 million a month.

Ppl always assume making higher money creates problems in life--- this is a very wrong assumption. It is actually the opposite. Money will make many problems in life will go away. And not all who makes money do not spend time with family.

Everything in life is important. Ppl talk about health. Rich ppl are healthier because they can afford to eat the best food, have time to go to work out and not worry about many things in life to keep their mental health is check :) A bad disease or accident can strike anyone regardless of money but i fail to see how having more money is a problem that ppl always bring up this and that...

And you should not compare your self to rest of the destitute world where malnutrition is a problem. You want to establish yourself to the point where you can actually help that population instead of worry about your own next housing and meal. i hope that makes sense.


I definitely agree with you there. In Islam, it's all about two things, how we earn the money and how we spend it. With a lot of money comes a lot of responsibilities and accountability. Not everybody is well equipped to handle that or take on that kind of a responsibility. I want to prove some real life examples: a few NBA superstars (Allen Iverson for example) whom at one point was a multi-millionaire is now broke(he made some really poor choices in life). Being Successful also comes down to the person and his/her decision making abilities. There was a movie called "The Wolf of Wall Street(2013)", which is based on a true story. I forgot his name but he is another classic example.

There are many good examples of wealthy people whom I admire like Warren Buffet and Bill Gates family. Despite having a ton of Money, Buffet leads a very simple lifestyle. Bill Gates does a lot of charity work worldwide and gives of tons of scholarships to promising students.

The entire point of my post was to make an attempt to prove that Money is not the only factor at defining success. I am glad you caught that. For me there is a threshold, x amount per year or something like that. For different people who wants to own yachts and private islands or private jets or whatever, that threshold is quite obviously much much higher. some people do not have any threshold, meaning nothing is enough...that's what I was aiming at. I thought My post would be offensive because it was an indirect attack to those whose only aim in life is as follows: "I make more than you, therefore, I am better than you type attitude". Their only purpose of existence is nothing more than to earn money.

Also, you don't necessarily have to be rich to lead a healthy lifestyle. like working out or eating healthy. You can buy organic or grow your own farm(like my mom does during summer).

Having money just by itself definitely does one thing. It gives you power to afford stuff that without money you wouldn't necessarily think about buying(unless you attained it as a gift/for free, which is rare). To me that's about it. it is a means not an end goal.

At a grand scale, the ability to help others and a make a big difference in their lives can also be done irrespective of having or not having money.

Most of us equate Success with having money. People like Albert Einstein, wasn't super rich but was very successful. Michael Hart authored The book "100: A Ranking Of The Most Influential Persons In History". Guess whom he chose as #1 ;)?

For now, I am focusing on becoming really really really good in my field. it takes a lot of reading, patience, hard work and practice. with Allah's help, I don't see why or how it is impossible.

iDumb
February 25, 2018, 10:57 PM
I thought My post would be offensive because it was an indirect attack to those whose only aim in life is as follows: "I make more than you, therefore, I am better than you type attitude". Their only purpose of existence is nothing more than to earn money.
.


Good post Rifat. I totally agree with you. The quote above - those type of ppl are uneducated. These are people with lack of empathy, lack of knowledge, lack of true friends and a lack of class.

But I don't mind millionaires flashing a bit of wealth with their nice flashy cars and big houses.. they deserve it. It's the attitude and how they behave with others when you interact with them separates them from the classless :)

Images of Bill Gates and Warrent Buffet - there are money spent behind that image I hope you understand... they get image consultation. Why do you think zuckerberg donated those facebook shares years ago to NJ education board... that 20 year old kid didn't come up with that.. it's multiple image consultants... Perks of being rich. You can buy how ppl perceive you :p

addendum: Buffet probably made many unfair deals in his life.. and gotten some wealth on back of others.. if you scrutinize every single deals and the repercussions behind those to some ppl. But that's life - that's the capitalist world we live in and we have to survive and fight that way.

Rifat
February 25, 2018, 11:02 PM
yeah it looks sweet. But the thing is for an engineer/programmer - silicon valley is where the real money is. But for a physician, that level of income can be had anywhere in the country. That 200K signon bonus and interest free loan is obviously to cancel out the housing cost (down payment on a million dollar house and subsidizing loans) as they realize the first thing a candidate will think of is the housing cost there but they will most likely sign you up for a 5 year contract or so. It would be a good offer for anyone already living there and wants to stay there but hard to justify for someone else from another part of the country to leave and go into one of the most expensive area in the world.

Why would someone who went trhough 8 years of extra education and training missing out on that many years of income and go into an area earning below a undergrad student in the tech field when he has other options.

but yeah still an enticing offer and u can think of that house as an investment gift by working there perhaps.

Interesting post!

This sounds a like a classic math problem.

How much you make now. let's call it X. what's your cost of living now. let's call that Y.
so, X - Y would be how much you would end up saving.

now, back to the Silicon Valley offer.

amount to make in Silicon Valley. let's call it Z. cost of living/expenses in Silicon Valley, let's call that R. so, (Z- R) is what you would end up saving if you accepted the silicon valley offer. For me, if (Z-R) is over 15% more than (X-Y), i would definitely take it. maybe for you, there are other factors at play...

iDumb
February 25, 2018, 11:05 PM
Interesting post!

This sounds a like a classic math problem.

..

this is where i concede you are too good in math for me to understand any of that. and I stop writing more LOL

DinRaat.
February 26, 2018, 08:24 AM
Interesting post!

This sounds a like a classic math problem.

How much you make now. let's call it X. what's your cost of living now. let's call that Y.
so, X - Y would be how much you would end up saving.

now, back to the Silicon Valley offer.

amount to make in Silicon Valley. let's call it Z. cost of living/expenses in Silicon Valley, let's call that R. so, (Z- R) is what you would end up saving if you accepted the silicon valley offer. For me, if (Z-R) is over 15% more than (X-Y), i would definitely take it. maybe for you, there are other factors at play...

I will give you a first year Calculus question to test your math, are you up for it?

mufi_02
February 26, 2018, 09:21 AM
eto hishab korle hoy? jibone ki taka poishai shob naki. aro koto kichu ase korar..

I say this after I realized I don't make anywhere close to 300k. nijeke ektu shantona dilam..

R0ssei
February 26, 2018, 01:38 PM
^^

Consequent to this thread, there may be a poll now re: who makes >300K here? :d

iDumb
April 17, 2018, 03:04 PM
So those of you who had hard time believing me and kept on referencing BLS (bullshit) data...

here is real data.


https://finance.yahoo.com/news/median-pay-facebook-more-240-165734193.html

Median salary is 240K USD


that's on 25K employees. So a lot of ppl are making a lot of money. Not 1 top dog :) Kids!

Jadukor
April 18, 2018, 12:15 AM
I thought you would link some job market data. This link refers to facebook only. Thanks for wasting my time

Rinathq
April 18, 2018, 01:07 AM
How happy are you? that should be the question

iDumb
April 18, 2018, 07:29 AM
I thought you would link some job market data. This link refers to facebook only. Thanks for wasting my time

again your thinking is still all wrong and you still thinking like BLS data...

This is a release of only 1 company that also has 25K (not a small number) employees. FB is not the only tech company. They are in high competetiion with other companijes for talent acquision. Evgen small start ups with good venture back up compete with them for employees. The whole point was there are plenty of jobs with high W2 salary.

Now if you are just one of those brown guy who is just happy to have a job and feel lucky then thats fine be happy. There are plenty of power companies or city jobs or non tech places or software support that will be happy to give u the bls salary. Those places do not really require the skill set of engineering/programming degree .

It is unwise to think everyone is in your boat.

Go back and re read how the convo started then maybe u can appreciate the different and a more realistic take on this.

R0ssei
April 18, 2018, 08:18 AM
^
Was it me in the starting convo? I recall I only talked about Intern salary. Google, FB, Amazon, MS, Apple pay a lot - everybody knows that. But an undergrad intern making over 100K in North America is hard to swallow.

In Canada, if you say you're surrounded by 300k earning people, you MUST be in room full of VP's and up or Doctors. Period.

iDumb
April 18, 2018, 09:20 AM
^
Was it me in the starting convo?

that was for jadukor.

Basically starting convo was a young kid dinraat wanted to make 300K. then a not so smart guy says tha'ts not possible because only CEO makes them and there are only 1 ceo per company.. it will take a lifetime to climb that ladder.

when I came in and tried to gave a more realistic picture of how many many many ppl are making that kind of money as employees and not ceos.

Then Jadukor kept on referencing BLS data how all internet data pointing towards a 60K salary and I kept giving references and real current data that which will show wide variance in salary for an engineering/programming student and not to rely BLS only.

Some of those 60K engineering jobs to be honest ANHYONE can do - u don't need engineering/programming degreee - it is simply an elimination criteria. the jobs that requ8ire programming skills - where u need to constantly update your self with new tech coming up - are very well paid.

And most of these current tech giants are looking for those.. Goog, appl, fb, amazon, uber, microfost, all the other apps - lyft, snap chat... etc etc.. it comes out to be hudrends of thousands of jobs... not 1.

G-man
April 18, 2018, 05:00 PM
That fb data is total compensation..which is salary + commissions + bonuses + equity , stock options, warrants , rights etc.

To some people they all the same thing and some people don't even bother to read the sec document.

Sheikh_Saheb
April 18, 2018, 07:59 PM
For me being successful is about:


Being happy, spreading smiles and laughter.
Choosing rationality over dogma; not being a forelock tugger.
Not being a bludger.


cheers
Siraj

iDumb
April 18, 2018, 10:51 PM
That fb data is total compensation..

And ur point is ? The bls data on that 60k average no matter what compensation u add is not gonna go to 240k . Again the number is median .. half of the ppl are making lot more.

Point if this discussion is it's possible to have great income with engineering programming degree . And it's not as rare as many of u think .

Rifat
April 18, 2018, 11:13 PM
Executives and senior managers may make 300k in some companies but in America, CEOs and some entrepreneours make over 9 million quite easily.

Jadukor
April 18, 2018, 11:40 PM
Now if you are just one of those brown guy who is just happy to have a job and feel lucky then thats fine be happy. There are plenty of power companies or city jobs or non tech places or software support that will be happy to give u the bls salary. Those places do not really require the skill set of engineering/programming degree .

It is unwise to think everyone is in your boat.

Go back and re read how the convo started then maybe u can appreciate the different and a more realistic take on this.

bhai if you don't trust economists and statisticians that carry out comprehensive salary surveys that is entirely up to you. People also listen to Alex Jones so I guess I should not be surprised. Just don't throw random yahoo articles at me. You always bring minimal research into an argument and pass the buck to the person you are arguing with to do all the research and hard work and prove you wrong. I have seen this before and I don't have time for it honestly. If you are the flag bearer brown rich guy in BC then congratulations and all credit to you. I am in my mid 30s and secure in terms of my own skills, life, money etc. I don't wake up with a mission to prove everyone else is an idiot and that I am a stable genius every morning. Therefore I would rather engage with young graduates and talk about my work experiences and industry experiences and help shape perspective than waste time on ajaira arguments with you on Bureau of Labor Statistics data. Have a good day.

DinRaat.
April 19, 2018, 06:20 AM
bhai if you don't trust economists and statisticians that carry out comprehensive salary surveys that is entirely up to you. People also listen to Alex Jones so I guess I should not be surprised. Just don't throw random yahoo articles at me. You always bring minimal research into an argument and pass the buck to the person you are arguing with to do all the research and hard work and prove you wrong. I have seen this before and I don't have time for it honestly. If you are the flag bearer brown rich guy in BC then congratulations and all credit to you. I am in my mid 30s and secure in terms of my own skills, life, money etc. I don't wake up with a mission to prove everyone else is an idiot and that I am a stable genius every morning. Therefore I would rather engage with young graduates and talk about my work experiences and industry experiences and help shape perspective than waste time on ajaira arguments with you on Bureau of Labor Statistics data. Have a good day.

Aspiring undergrad, here, is it true what they say that GPA always isn't the final deal. Coming from a stereo-typically strict academic focused family, do employers really look for GPA or is it just unecessary hype.

iDumb
April 19, 2018, 08:41 AM
bhai if you don't trust economists and statisticians that carry out comprehensive salary surveys that is entirely up to you. People also listen to Alex Jones so I guess I should not be surprised. Just don't throw random yahoo articles at me. You always bring minimal research into an argument and pass the buck to the person you are arguing with to do all the research and hard work and prove you wrong. I have seen this before and I don't have time for it honestly. If you are the flag bearer brown rich guy in BC then congratulations and all credit to you. I am in my mid 30s and secure in terms of my own skills, life, money etc. I don't wake up with a mission to prove everyone else is an idiot and that I am a stable genius every morning. Therefore I would rather engage with young graduates and talk about my work experiences and industry experiences and help shape perspective than waste time on ajaira arguments with you on Bureau of Labor Statistics data. Have a good day.

Now you are getting personal. None of my posts were personal. When I write 'You' i was talking about general term.

I am not an engineer or a programmer. Neither is you I think (I am not even 100% sure what ur field is beside that it's a good field for you).

You have made a post that makes no sense. You haven't posted anything . All you said is look up BLS but I have countered you few x with data (articles based on official filing data) but you still want to live in your own world.

Try to understand the message first before looking at alternate intention. You are shaping up wrong perspective with your view in my opinion and I am here to give mine a more positive one.

7 out of 10 bussiness fail. Does that mean if an entrepruneur who looks to be successful do you tel him odds are against you you will fail. Even the 7 person that failed some will still say to go for it. those are the ones that learn from their mistakes and implement it next time.

You are an other wise smarter than the empty headed 30 year old here whose reality is somewhere else. Maybe it's time to look at the other data yourself and admit it is not as difficult as people think to make 300K with programming/engineering degree.

Din raat is absoultely right. A cab driver maeks 100K what would motivagte him to cont his engieering degree if he will make 60K?? Do you understand that?

You are happy with your life - that's great. Not all aspire to that clearly <-- sorry got a bit personal.

iDumb
April 19, 2018, 08:47 AM
Aspiring undergrad, here, is it true what they say that GPA always isn't the final deal. Coming from a stereo-typically strict academic focused family, do employers really look for GPA or is it just unecessary hype.

GPA does not get you job. Haha. You are so brown. Keep listening to the ones who got jobs with GPA.

A company will want to see if you can make them money by developing things. This is where internship or side project gonna make or break you.

i never put my gpa in my CV. Only ppl who put that are who are lacking in experience and hoping someone gives them a chance.

Tausif
April 19, 2018, 09:03 AM
There are quite a few companies that look at your GPA, particularly Consulting and Investment Banking firms. Some of them even require their candidates to provide their SAT scores all the way from high school.

mufi_02
April 19, 2018, 09:19 AM
that $240k median average is slightly misleading.

a) granted this is median and not mean. I assume this is middle management roles. Which means at least 8-10 years of experience post college. this is not entry level.
b) it includes bonus. corporations tries to keep base salary low but high bonus because they can cancel bonus next year but can't lower the base salary. so we do not know the breakdown. majority of it might be bonus and which is taxed much higher than base. I was taxed more than 40% for my bonus last year.
c) stock grants. tech companies are known to be generous on that. but we do not know more about how much.
d) Finally this is in SF. The most expensive city in the US by far. Other cities with great quality of life (such as Charlotte, Austin, Denver) has 50% less cost of living. So $240 in SF is comparable to $150-160 in those cities.

nonetheless, this is a very lucrative package. it is very competitive and might be above market. but this is not the norm.

p.s. I don't work in tech and so these are just assumptions about silicon valley.

iDumb
April 19, 2018, 09:19 AM
There are quite a few companies that look at your GPA, particularly Consulting and Investment Banking firms. Some of them even require their candidates to provide their SAT scores all the way from high school.

interesting but unnecessary. I am assuming this field requires passing actuary exam. Learned something. Never heard anyone needing this. Experience TOPS anything.

---------------------

In my college years I got a job in hospital working as a patient transporter during summer. Then internally I got the HR person to set me an interview for pharmacy tech job. In my CV, i wrote all about the things i know computer language C++, PHP, Mysql etc (i knew the basics at that time since I looked at few of my brothers book in high school). the pharmacist actually looked at me and said I don't need anyone to fix my computer just dispense the meds. Then he asked me what are my future plans. I didn't lie. I didn't get the job. It hit my ego.

It was a job ANYONE that can read is able to do but required some qualifications. I didn't have any pharmacy tech certificate but still i was able to get the interview via the hr person but messed up the interview as I probably sounded to cocky there. I should have told him i wanted to go to pharmacy school and trim down my CV to reflect the what the job requires not what I think is gonna make me look smart...

A lot of students have close to 4.0 gpa. It means ZERO!! in most cases.

ahnaf
April 19, 2018, 09:24 AM
Aspiring undergrad, here, is it true what they say that GPA always isn't the final deal. Coming from a stereo-typically strict academic focused family, do employers really look for GPA or is it just unecessary hype.

Having good cgpa definitely helps. But if you have quite a few experience of successful work/project/competition then having low cpga shouldn't be a big problem. Of course i'm speaking from technical background.

Regardless of your cgpa, you should always do some project related to your field.

Jadukor
April 19, 2018, 10:43 AM
Din raat is absoultely right. A cab driver maeks 100K what would motivagte him to cont his engieering degree if he will make 60K?? Do you understand that?


My understanding is fundamentally different to yours and I don't mind that one bit.

My message to Dinraat would be to think of money as a byproduct of a job you love doing. There is more to a job than just earning a salary. The work environment, interaction with multicultural teams, the respect, praise and appreciation on your efforts, the personal satisfaction of making a positive impact as a result of your work, all of these things should matter to you and inspire you more than just money. Otherwise, people would not work in industries that pay low salaries. We would not have teachers or aid workers working hard to shape young minds or save the environment, or help refugees etc.

As far as GPA is concerned, when you are low on experience anything positive you can put in your CV is an advantage because it would help you differentiate yourself from a 100 other CVs that hiring manager is looking at. However, GPAs don't matter at any level beyond entry level in my opinion. What matters most is the interview and regardless of what your GPA is the employer will want to test you on your experience and knowledge of the job you are applying for. So I would say preparing for interviews is the key and you need to nail your moments during the interview when you face competency based questions. Try to always retool your CV according to the job you are applying for and you can do this by looking at the vacancy announcement and the core skillsets the organization/company is looking for. Your GPA, just like salary, is a byproduct of your work in School. Don't aim for a high GPA but rather aim to gain an in-depth knowledge of whatever you are studying. Once you do that your GPA should automatically be high.

Roey Haque
April 19, 2018, 11:53 AM
Hmm. What is love? There are many examples of how men become a different person when the women he loves and marries doesn’t give him a child. Many times, even if the women gives birth to child and it’s a girl, the men wants another, he tries for a boy. The romantic guys those who believe in love say well it’s not true love. Than I ask.. what those men have gone through, have you? Imagine loving someone, but she has some problems, can’t give birth to a child? So many examples of those so called love turning the wrong way when the women can’t give what you want.

Eventually marriage is about children/family, be it covered with the tag ‘love marriage’ or ‘arranged marriage’. The example above I used is of a European, I personally know that person. She went through some tough time, until she had her second child, luckily a boy.


^Yes. All true. Preach on! I want my marriage fixed by a righteous and islamist imam from East London. I want to be lectured on morality so so very much from a man with a beard no less than two feet.

Yankees
April 19, 2018, 02:13 PM
There are quite a few companies that look at your GPA, particularly Consulting and Investment Banking firms. Some of them even require their candidates to provide their SAT scores all the way from high school.

yeap. For IBs you have to submit SATs for analysts, and GMAT for associates.

Generally in the US, a lot of firms do on campus recruiting, and gpas act as a cutoff. But never once was I asked about my gpa during the actual interviews. Just make sure its above 3.0 so that its not a red flag.

Yankees
April 19, 2018, 02:30 PM
It doesn't take a genius to figure out Facebook and other tech giants pay a lot. But that is also why they get over 250,000 applicants every year for a handful of jobs. My guess is that the applicants that convert to full-time offer is less than investment banks, which is like 2%. Don't forget that majority of FB's hires come from on-campus recruiting from places like Stanford and Harvard.

If you like those odds, and you have the pedigree, experience, resume to convert, then you'd be stupid not to go for it. But if you can't check those boxes, then don't be surprised if FB doesn't "Like/thumbs up" you back.

And hey, if 2% is good odds to you, why limit yourself to engineering? In every field, the top 2% get compensated well. Become a youtuber, I hear the top channels earn millions.

Yankees
April 19, 2018, 02:33 PM
Anyways DinRaat, I'm only 3 years older than you so take my advice with a grain of salt:

If you like engineering, then study engineering. Don't worry about the compensation. If you are good at what you do, you will get compensated well. And to be good at what you do, you have to enjoy it. You are spending 40-60 hours a week doing something, you might as well like it.

The cab driver you mention actually doesn't get compensated well, when you consider how many hours they work and how mundane that job is. Nobody enjoys driving 12 hours a day.

If money is your main concern, and 300k+ is your goal, then know the odds are not in you favor as just an employee. You could get a job with a tech giant, but you probably won't. And if you take your advice from an idiot that can barely string a sentence together, then I guarantee you're not smart enough to work for facebook.

iDumb
April 19, 2018, 02:51 PM
My understanding is fundamentally different to yours and I don't mind that one bit.

My message to Dinraat would be to think of money as a byproduct of a job you love doing. There is more to a job than just earning a salary.

no one said anything different. Now you are dragging the convo else where. You can love your job and tap the potential of the industry. Chances of loving a job that gets you to build products used by billions of people every day is much satisfying than being a software support for ppl who has trouble remembering their password. Thats what I feel. Do not assume that people will hate jobs that are higher paid.

My posts and answers are targetted and relevant to what one seeks. And not a philosophical one.

The assumption is he already likes the field he is studying.

And this "loving your subject" is an over rated but not a practical advice. If you love dancing and particularly not a good one - I would discourage you to take u to take up theater but try to do it in the side while aiming for something better to fall back on.

Just like there are more to a job than just money - there are also a lot more to life than just a job. Being an unemployed or underemployed lovely dancer will bring many other negatives of life to the forefront.

anyways it's a totally different discussion and losing the focus on the main point which is it is very much possible for an engineering/programming grad to make close to 300K and it is not a rare event. Equally so one should not undersold their skills level based another persons experience without fully grasping the picture of an industry.

Taxi drivers on BLS tells u they make 24k a year. That can not be further from the truth.


I do not disagree that an engineer/programming grad is realistically looking at 70 to 90K annually job. But equally there are thousands and thousands of people who are doing very well starting out or few years into their career. It's not an unique feat.

Just like 7 out of 10 businesses will fail but you are not aiming to be one of the 7 ones failing but enjoying the experience. You rather be the 1 of the 3 and loving it even if the odds are stacked against you. For young people, it is often a good idea to look forward to positive things than be boggled down by negative aspect of anything.

I have 2 engineering friends who are doing side project with 2 different group trying to build their own company - ie start up. Stats are against them and chances of them failing is >95% but when i talk to them it is always a positive one about how if it hits it is a multimillion dollar project or if it goes bust you are updating your skill levels. I am not gonna go tell them listen man u just wasting ur time instead watch cricket it's safer and u will enjoy it more. The amount of extra time they spend without getting paid on these project is commendable. they are putting in a second job hours.

after the project fails they will go into a temporary depression mode but it is still worth knowing and trying that there are options to hit one out of the ballpark.

Hope my message is clear.

I rather be a sad engineer than an happy rickshaw puller any day of the week.

iDumb
April 19, 2018, 02:58 PM
yes dinraat listen to a 30 year old loser instead who judges you.

Yankees
April 19, 2018, 03:21 PM
yes dinraat listen to a 30 year old loser instead who judges you.

you take pot shots at me and accuse me of judging? You only wish I was 30 so you feel more adequate.

Anyways I dont really want to get into another one of your mental diarrhea fights. So control yourself little man.

mufi_02
April 19, 2018, 03:26 PM
yeap. For IBs you have to submit SATs for analysts, and GMAT for associates.

Generally in the US, a lot of firms do on campus recruiting, and gpas act as a cutoff. But never once was I asked about my gpa during the actual interviews. Just make sure its above 3.0 so that its not a red flag.

do they now? maybe for campus recruiting and as you said for "analyst". Those are front office (bankers/traders) maybe.

I work at a tier 1 IB and didn't ask for my school grades/gmats during my interviews. they asked a whole bunch of stupid ques though.

after 3 years now no one even asks anymore about my school or major.

Tausif
April 19, 2018, 03:55 PM
do they now? maybe for campus recruiting and as you said for "analyst". Those are front office (bankers/traders) maybe.

I work at a tier 1 IB and didn't ask for my school grades/gmats during my interviews. they asked a whole bunch of stupid ques though.

after 3 years now no one even asks anymore about my school or major.

Yes they ask mostly for Investment Banking/Equity Research Analyst/Associate and other trader roles. If you’re working in other departments of an IB, chances are they won’t care about your GPA/scores.

But Yankees is correct that they do use GPA to cutoff the amount of resumes they have to review. I was volunteering for campus recruiting at my school for a company I interned at that time and the lead recruiter told me specifically that anything below 3.5, put on another pile.

Tigers_eye
April 19, 2018, 06:50 PM
Entry level job with 200k+?
















































Dream on!!!
Dream on!!!


















It will happen in 2070. I'd be 100+ by then.

DinRaat.
April 19, 2018, 07:55 PM
How happy are you guys with your life. Honest question, try to give a straight up answer doesn't have to be personal.

Tigers_eye
April 19, 2018, 08:54 PM
How happy are you guys with your life. Honest question, try to give a straight up answer doesn't have to be personal.

In your interview, be honest, emphasize honesty, no short cut is compromised, give examples of your honest work. No one can put a price in that. You will land where you will be valued and this would be unique to all other interviewers. If some reject you then it is their loss and your gain. I am a fraud auditor first, teacher second.

+++

Permanent happiness is in seeking your Creator. The rest are temporary. Be it games, entertainment, proving yourself, woman or women, money (wealth), status, kids, health.

+++
How happy I am with my life?

Al Hamdulillah. All praise and gratitude belongs to Allah (God).

Jadukor
April 19, 2018, 11:13 PM
no one said anything different. Now you are dragging the convo else where.
No, I am not, you are saying why should Din Raat study engineering if he ends up earning less than a cab driver. My answer to that is that even if the pay is low there are more to things to a job that would make the job a lot more satisfying.
You can love your job and tap the potential of the industry. Chances of loving a job that gets you to build products used by billions of people every day is much satisfying than being a software support for ppl who has trouble remembering their password. Thats what I feel. Do not assume that people will hate jobs that are higher paid.
I did not assume anything. This is just incoherent rambling
anyways it's a totally different discussion and losing the focus on the main point which is it is very much possible for an engineering/programming grad to make close to 300K and it is not a rare event. Equally so one should not undersold their skills level based another persons experience without fully grasping the picture of an industry.
If you were an engineer working for a top tech company I would take your words seriously. As I have mentioned before I trust what the survey on labor market data shows. An average doesn’t mean that is what you will aim for. It is a basis for comparison to where you are in the job market.
Taxi drivers on BLS tells u they make 24k a year. That can not be further from the truth.
I do not know what taxi drivers make, not really my area of interest. But the point is that again you are going back to the amount of money which I have already said is irrelevant. In general, you will get compensated by the market based on your acquired skill, talent, work experience and education. It is reasonable to expect that in a 1st world job market where knowing "mama" "chacha" in big companies is not so important.


I do not disagree that an engineer/programming grad is realistically looking at 70 to 90K annually job. But equally there are thousands and thousands of people who are doing very well starting out or few years into their career. It's not an unique feat. .
Not disagreeing is in fact agreeing. As with any average number, there will be data points both above and below so it is not a surprise that many people have very high salaries. I am beginning to think you don’t understand the concept of an average


Just like 7 out of 10 businesses will fail but you are not aiming to be one of the 7 ones failing but enjoying the experience. You rather be the 1 of the 3 and loving it even if the odds are stacked against you. For young people, it is often a good idea to look forward to positive things than be boggled down by negative aspect of anything.
It is a good idea to aim to be on the winning side. However, numbers do not lie. From the above, we can say 70% businesses fail and I am sure these people also have hopes and dreams and were equally motivated. Competition or competitive markets do not work with gut feelings or sympathy or aspirations and therefore the bottom-line is that if you have the skills, the market will more often than not reward you for it.


I rather be a sad engineer than an happy rickshaw puller any day of the week.
Being happy or sad depends on each individual’s situation and their own perspective on life. I am not arrogant enough to think a rickshaw puller has no chance of being happier than me or Obama. People are born into poverty and people that have the drive make the best of what they can do in life sometimes end up with more happiness than you think. Not everyone obsesses of material possessions. A rickshaw puller may find more happiness in sending his kids to school or by putting bread on the table. He may be content with the cards that he had been dealt in life. It is not for me to assume.

Rifat
April 20, 2018, 12:28 AM
In your interview, be honest, emphasize honesty, no short cut is compromised, give examples of your honest work. No one can put a price in that. You will land where you will be valued and this would be unique to all other interviewers. If some reject you then it is their loss and your gain. I am a fraud auditor first, teacher second.

+++

Permanent happiness is in seeking your Creator. The rest are temporary. Be it games, entertainment, proving yourself, woman or women, money (wealth), status, kids, health.

+++
How happy I am with my life?

Al Hamdulillah. All praise and gratitude belongs to Allah (God).

+++1 to this post :up: :goal:

iDumb
April 20, 2018, 01:58 AM
No, I am not, you are saying why should Din Raat study engineering if he ends up earning less than a cab driver.
I did not say that . Dinrat did . Scroll back and re read. I am echoing his sentiment and putting forth the data to show it's a great field he is in.


If you were an engineer working for a top tech company I would take your words seriously. As I have mentioned before I trust what the survey on labor market data shows. An average doesn’t mean that is what you will aim for. It is a basis for comparison to where you are in the job market. [/Quote ]
You should take me seriously because I am showing u real company data. You did not believe me when I said fb interns made 100k.
I have just come back here repeatedly to show u real data and now up all claiming everyone knows that. And I have said above many times bls is a good yardstick but variance is extraordinary . Half of ppl in FB make more than 240k . Wrap that thought around before writing generic comments . Mufi touched on it a brief but none of u counter argued properly . FB compensation maybe higher due to stock options for earlier employees as the their price per share skyrocketed over last 3 years . But u would have to dive more into it and it's a guessing game here without all data available .

[Quote]I do not know what taxi drivers make, not really my area of interest.
Your area of interest is BLS data and that was an example to show u that they are misleading as the assumption was a brown guy should know atleast few can drivers . I know I do .

In general, you will get compensated by the market based on your acquired skill, talent, work experience and education. It is reasonable to expect that in a 1st world job market

No ****. And ur assumption is what a user in this forum can't acquire those skills ?? I am not sure what you are arguing ?

iDumb
April 20, 2018, 02:07 AM
Ignorance is bliss . Rickshawpuller can certainly be happier but his world is very small . Bringing food for my family is not really my greatest struggle in life. Not a struggle at all for all of us here thank God.

I just don't want to be an ignorant happy if that makes sense .

Jadukor
April 20, 2018, 05:05 AM
How happy are you guys with your life. Honest question, try to give a straight up answer doesn't have to be personal.
I am very happy with where I am in life and I say this based on my evaluation of my financial security, family, marriage, job satisfaction, and social circle. I have had some ups and downs during my life. My father died before my graduation after a very expensive cancer treatment, my sister in law had a brain hemorrhage and almost died. But as a family, we were able to weather the storm and I am extremely thankful to my mom for the strength she showed in adversity.

I hope this is an honest enough answer for you. :-)

mufi_02
April 20, 2018, 08:46 AM
thread got derailed pretty fast..

money and income is very relative. there was an article saying 75k/year is the optimal salary. I doubt it but maybe for the author and certain age/demographic that is the number.

at the end of day, money doesn't translate to happiness. but it certainly is important. nowadays experiences makes me happy. going to a new place, trying out new food, making new friends. heck even an important BD win makes me extremely happy. if we had beaten India it would have made me more happy than thousands of dollars.

iDumb
April 20, 2018, 09:20 AM
thread got derailed pretty fast..

money and income is very relative. there was an article saying 75k/year is the optimal salary. I doubt it but maybe for the author and certain age/demographic that is the number.

at the end of day, money doesn't translate to happiness. but it certainly is important. nowadays experiences makes me happy. going to a new place, trying out new food, making new friends. heck even an important BD win makes me extremely happy. if we had beaten India it would have made me more happy than thousands of dollars.

post of the thread. But money makes a lot of things easier. Once someone can achieve financial independence, he can truly unleash all the life has to offer via experiences.

Salary isn't the key. Financial independence is. To achieve FI requires a lot of luck and hard work if you are not born into or married into money.

btw i don't believe that article for a second.

iDumb
April 20, 2018, 09:24 AM
I have always wanted to visit all of 50 states of United states. That kid zuckerberg did it in couple of weeks and I am here crossing 1 state a year. yeah I am gonna get a little happy but i will be dead before i move on to my next bucket list.

that's why financial independence is pillar of a relatively happy life.

mufi_02
April 20, 2018, 12:29 PM
post of the thread. But money makes a lot of things easier. Once someone can achieve financial independence, he can truly unleash all the life has to offer via experiences.

Salary isn't the key. Financial independence is. To achieve FI requires a lot of luck and hard work if you are not born into or married into money.

btw i don't believe that article for a second.

here is the article -- http://www.businessinsider.com/nobel-prize-winners-figured-out-the-perfect-salary-for-happiness-2015-10

correction: from 2015 and not last year

from WSJ --

The magic income: $75,000 a year. As people earn more money, their day-to-day happiness rises. Until you hit $75,000. After that, it is just more stuff, with no gain in happiness.

That doesn’t mean wealthy and ultrawealthy are equally happy. More money does boost people’s life assessment, all the way up the income ladder.

People who earned $160,000 a year, for instance, reported more overall satisfaction than people earning $120,000, and so on


so we all have our own "magic number" that depends on many things. An engineer earning $150k in Denver might be happier than a FB engineer earning $240k in San Francisco.

Once you attain financial independence, invest in experiences/relationships.

Yankees
April 21, 2018, 03:18 AM
I am very happy with where I am in life and I say this based on my evaluation of my financial security, family, marriage, job satisfaction, and social circle. I have had some ups and downs during my life. My father died before my graduation after a very expensive cancer treatment, my sister in law had a brain hemorrhage and almost died. But as a family, we were able to weather the storm and I am extremely thankful to my mom for the strength she showed in adversity.

I hope this is an honest enough answer for you. :-)

Great post, bro. Great mindset.

Shingara
April 21, 2018, 01:28 PM
I am successful but not happy.
Can you be both at the same time ?

Tausif
April 22, 2018, 11:35 PM
Here’s a cool article regarding median pay at Amazon. Found this quite interesting.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/amazons-typical-worker-is-in-a-warehouse-making-28-446-a-year-1524402003

You can also check how your current paycheck matches up with specific companies and sectors.

https://www.wsj.com/graphics/how-does-your-pay-stack-up/

Yankees
April 23, 2018, 01:05 AM
Here’s a cool article regarding median pay at Amazon. Found this quite interesting.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/amazons-typical-worker-is-in-a-warehouse-making-28-446-a-year-1524402003

You can also check how your current paycheck matches up with specific companies and sectors.

https://www.wsj.com/graphics/how-does-your-pay-stack-up/

I'm not sure why WSj thinks this is news. Amazon is first and foremost a retail company that delivers goods. It's common sense that they have lots of warehouses and people to facilitate the logistics.

Tausif
April 23, 2018, 06:01 AM
I'm not sure why WSj thinks this is news. Amazon is first and foremost a retail company that delivers goods. It's common sense that they have lots of warehouses and people to facilitate the logistics.

They have a huge cloud business and often get compared to the big technology companies such as Facebook and Google mostly because the stock trades like a tech stock and valued much more than the other giants. In fact, more than half of their operating income comes from AWS. A lot of their revenue is also coming from products such as Echo and Alexa. Their core business is not just retail business anymore and the article is merely on the new median pay data that public companies are releasing recently.

Yankees
April 24, 2018, 02:59 AM
They have a huge cloud business and often get compared to the big technology companies such as Facebook and Google mostly because the stock trades like a tech stock and valued much more than the other giants. In fact, more than half of their operating income comes from AWS. A lot of their revenue is also coming from products such as Echo and Alexa. Their core business is not just retail business anymore and the article is merely on the new median pay data that public companies are releasing recently.

I don't deny that. but cloud business is not manual labor intensive. AWS requires a couple of engineers and developers only.

There's a reason Amazon's total workforce is 500k+ and their tech rivals are usually less than 80k (FB is only like 25,000). The difference is that the others don't have fulfillment centers to maintain. Buying WholeFoods only added to that discrepancy.

Tausif
April 24, 2018, 08:13 AM
I don't deny that. but cloud business is not manual labor intensive. AWS requires a couple of engineers and developers only.

There's a reason Amazon's total workforce is 500k+ and their tech rivals are usually less than 80k (FB is only like 25,000). The difference is that the others don't have fulfillment centers to maintain. Buying WholeFoods only added to that discrepancy.

Actually, AWS has over 25,000 employees and I’m sure it’s more than just a couple of engineers and developers working there. They very aggressively recruit for AWS as its leading the way through cloud business.

Anyway, I wish we could look at the median compensation data for tech people at Amazon. Quite sure it’s nowhere near the figure FB pays as FB is most likely an outlier.

Mridul
April 24, 2018, 03:55 PM
The day I pray Fajr in the masjid I feel I am successful.

Tigers_eye
April 27, 2018, 12:18 PM
The day I pray Fajr in the masjid I feel I am successful.
And they say,

"Why are you wasting your time like that? What benefit do you get?"
Why don't you do something fruitful at that time? Make some money or sleep and rest so that you wake up fresh and be inspired to make more money."
"What success you are talking about? Show me the success. You can't."
"Why are you taking this religion so seriously?"
"Enjoy this life. We are enjoying our life and don't have to wake up that early."
"Put some sense in to this. Wake up!!!"
"After all, we are all Muslims too. We don't take it so seriously. You don't have to."

"Who believe in the unseen, establish prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them"

<SMALL class=english data-reactid="2128">"And who believe in what has been revealed to you, [O Muhammad], and what was revealed before you, and of the Hereafter they are certain [in faith]."</SMALL>

<SMALL class=english data-reactid="2196">"Those are upon [right] guidance from their Lord, and it is those who are the successful." </SMALL>(2:3-5)

One World
May 2, 2018, 08:37 AM
I understand the enthusiasm regarding religion from some members because of the deep attachment to cultural environment of how they grow up and also personal commitment. But, truly success has nothing to do with religion. Success as mentioned here if I understand correctly is focused on this life on earth, which sounds right now may be not in next 100 years if Elon Musk succeeds(;)). But, leading religions as we know it mostly base their norm of sacrifice and sufferings with the promise of rewards afterlife. Some can argue about the promises offered in this life through resolving a hardship earned by prayers, but actually resolution of such hardship through prayers does not fall into success. There may be a bunch of others who never had to go through such hardship or even overcome a similar hardship without praying even for a minute. So bringing in a variable such as religion in the equation is useless here.

iDumb
October 23, 2018, 06:28 PM
https://medium.com/s/powertrip/i-know-the-salaries-of-thousands-of-tech-employees-4841bc26d753

and ppl read BLS data LOL.