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Night_wolf
April 6, 2018, 07:54 PM
just saw this video. I dont know if these guys handpicked words that are similar for the sake of the video, but the similarity is uncanny. I always thought Bangla and Hindi both came from Sangskrit thats why these two languages are similar but where did persian came from!

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/B8AruyGvTcc" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

NoName
April 6, 2018, 09:53 PM
Going out on a limb and say it has to do with the Mughal influence and Persian speaking Muslim rulers of the past. Iirc a lot would settle in Bengal

NoName
April 6, 2018, 09:56 PM
Made me Google cause it got me interested and found this link.

http://thoughts-on-islam.blogspot.ca/2013/04/influence-of-persian-on-bengali.html?m=1

Antora
April 6, 2018, 11:25 PM
Made me Google cause it got me interested and found this link.

http://thoughts-on-islam.blogspot.ca/2013/04/influence-of-persian-on-bengali.html?m=1

Wow, this is really interesting.

mufi_02
April 7, 2018, 04:55 AM
Persian is one of the most beautiful sounding language ever. There are Persian influence due to trade and early Persian settlers. Bangladeshi conglomerate “Ispahani” is one of them. They are originally Persian and from Isfahan so we Bengalis called them Isfahani which became Ispahani.

I watch a lot of Persian films.
With subtitles of course but can pick out many words.

If anyone has time please watch “children of heaven” or as they say in Farsi “baccha i asman”...

Night_wolf
April 7, 2018, 08:42 AM
Made me Google cause it got me interested and found this link.

http://thoughts-on-islam.blogspot.ca/2013/04/influence-of-persian-on-bengali.html?m=1

this is really interesting, thanks for the link

mufi_02
April 7, 2018, 10:40 AM
Made me Google cause it got me interested and found this link.

http://thoughts-on-islam.blogspot.ca/2013/04/influence-of-persian-on-bengali.html?m=1

interesting article. but the writer seems too obsessed on "conspiracy" and downplays the effect of sanskrit. while farsi had a major influence, sanskrit still remains the source and mother language of bangla. noticed it is from religious site and thus trying to discount sanskrit (and hindu) influence. thus I would be wary of his motive.

he claims the very word "bangla" is persian derived. that is up for debate. during the roman empire, this region was known as "vanga" and over the years changed and morphed into bangla (or bangala).

nevertheless, after sanskirt, farsi had the most influence forming bengali.

NoName
April 7, 2018, 11:12 AM
Yeh I agree with the unnecessary down play of Sanskrit influence.

Yankees
April 7, 2018, 11:26 AM
interesting article. but the writer seems too obsessed on "conspiracy" and downplays the effect of sanskrit. while farsi had a major influence, sanskrit still remains the source and mother language of bangla. noticed it is from religious site and thus trying to discount sanskrit (and hindu) influence. thus I would be wary of his motive.

he claims the very word "bangla" is persian derived. that is up for debate. during the roman empire, this region was known as "vanga" and over the years changed and morphed into bangla (or bangala).

nevertheless, after sanskirt, farsi had the most influence forming bengali.

very good point Mufi. It's embarrassing when a lot of bengalis try to downplay the role of sanskrit because its equated to hinduism. The irony is that the writer of this blog most likely has ancestors who were Hindu converts. You cannot change history just to fit your narrative.

Also, just to add to your point, vanga = banga, from which we get and still use the phrase bangabandhu.

Night_wolf
April 7, 2018, 11:35 AM
Tbh that is a islamic blogpost, what he did was not unexpected. I dont know what these guys feel good on doing these

anyway lets not turn this thread into a religious one please

iDumb
April 7, 2018, 11:39 AM
why is there a rug on the table? I thought they are supposed to be under the table. Or am i doing it wrong?

Yankees
April 7, 2018, 11:42 AM
I have an Iranian friend and they also call vegetables "sabzi", and one of the popular dishes in Iran is sabzi pulao.

Ajfar
April 7, 2018, 11:59 AM
I found similarities between some Bangla and Arabic words. Off the top of my head I can think of these Arabic words that are very close to what we use in Bangla - Batil, Khabais, Fakir. I came across more in the past, I can’t remember right now.

What’s the link between Farsi and Arabic? Which is older?

bujhee kom
April 7, 2018, 12:15 PM
Both languages are khub shundor. Shunte khub bhala sundor lagche.

Hmm..the Bangali girl has a husky voice...which is fine, a lot of famous singers have husky voice, like Lucinda Williams, Gillian Welch, Patty Smith.

I don't think that was a Persian rug...ogular daam onek beshi...pattern-ta dekhe mone hocche BJMC carpet...proudly hand-made in Bangladesh, by Bnagladesh Jute Mills Corporation. Very nice.

simon
April 7, 2018, 12:15 PM
Isnt Paani a farsi word ?

mufi_02
April 7, 2018, 12:15 PM
arabic and farsi are very similar due to just proximity. arabia ends with iraq and persia starts with iran. thats why similar writing script and centuries on social interaction.

bengali has common farsi words but not the grammar. language is more than just few words. the grammar is mostly sanskirt.

bujhee kom
April 7, 2018, 12:17 PM
Isnt Paani a farsi word ?

Yes, Paani is Farsi...Kintoo Paan (jorda) is Bangla - like as in 'Paan theke chun khoshle ekebarey Tele Begune jole uthen dada-babu...'

Also Paani is Farsi, but Pora-paani is Bangal!

bujhee kom
April 7, 2018, 12:26 PM
Ohh also Laal-Paani I believe is Bangali too!
Mone koro na je Paani is Farosi, so tumi Tehran-e giya Laal-Paani, laal-pani request korbe, keu bujhte parbe naa ki bolcho.
Tobe, jodi Ayatuollah bujthe pare gow, tobe tumar khobor ache! I mean khobor=kobor!

simon
April 7, 2018, 12:28 PM
^hoat ebout "tabij" ?

DinRaat.
April 7, 2018, 12:33 PM
Very nice find from N.W, BC needs more threads like this, never knew Persian and Bengali vernacular/languages were linked.

Yankees
April 7, 2018, 12:34 PM
fellas, help me out here. What language is "haash patal" derived from? As in "jor hoice, kome na, haash patal cholo"?

Yankees
April 7, 2018, 12:36 PM
Yes, Paani is Farsi...Kintoo Paan (jorda) is Bangla - like as in 'Paan theke chun khoshle ekebarey Tele Begune jole uthen dada-babu...'

Also Paani is Farsi, but Pora-paani is Bangal!

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

mufi_02
April 7, 2018, 12:50 PM
fellas, help me out here. What language is "haash patal" derived from? As in "jor hoice, kome na, haash patal cholo"?

english - hospital.

which is from latin - hospitale meaning shelter.

so hospital got bangla-nized and became hash patal.

Firebreaker
April 7, 2018, 01:01 PM
There's no similarity between Bengali and Persian. One is a Sanskriti language and other is Arabic. There are a lot of sims between Urdu and Persian so the Urdu words which are used in Hindi/Bengali are similar

mufi_02
April 7, 2018, 01:12 PM
There's no similarity between Bengali and Persian. One is a Sanskriti language and other is Arabic. There are a lot of sims between Urdu and Persian so the Urdu words which are used in Hindi/Bengali are similar

no wonder you got rejected from uni. too bad billionaire dollars cant help with knowledge.

Night_wolf
April 7, 2018, 01:35 PM
no wonder you got rejected from uni. too bad billionaire dollars cant help with knowledge.

unis and girls making the right decisons

Yankees
April 7, 2018, 01:42 PM
Here's a fun trivia: Bangla is the official language in Bangladesh, India, and one other country. Can any one guess without looking it up? (hint: It's not England).

Night_wolf
April 7, 2018, 01:50 PM
Here's a fun trivia: Bangla is the official language in Bangladesh, India, and one other country. Can any one guess without looking it up? (hint: It's not England).

cant name the country but its one of the countries that our military is/was working as part of the UN peace mission...somewhere in africa I guess

Yankees
April 7, 2018, 01:54 PM
cant name the country but its one of the countries that our military is/was working as part of the UN peace mission...somewhere in africa I guess

yup Sierra Sunny Leone. It was a gesture of thanks after Bangladeshi peacekeeping soldiers helped rebuild the country after their war.

Roey Haque
April 7, 2018, 08:24 PM
Nightwolf, they are all part of Indo-Aryan languages, ain't it?

Just notice how counting 1 to 10 is so similar across all languages in the world.

These things stop being fascinating when you remind yourself that we are all one. All started from Africa and migrated to elsewhere.

Rifat
April 7, 2018, 09:10 PM
I found similarities between some Bangla and Arabic words. Off the top of my head I can think of these Arabic words that are very close to what we use in Bangla - Batil, Khabais, Fakir. I came across more in the past, I can’t remember right now.

What’s the link between Farsi and Arabic? Which is older?

Qalam - (Kolom) i.e. pen
Wakil - (Ukeel) i.e. Lawyer

Namaaz is actually a persian word. that's why Bangladeshis call it namaaz.

Bangla, as a language is a mesh of quite a few different languages, Mostly Sankrit. Grammar most probably comes from Sanskrit. A lot of Vocabulary are imported from Farsi and Arabic.

Night_wolf
April 7, 2018, 09:12 PM
Qalam - (Kolom) i.e. pen
Wakil - (Ukeel) i.e. Lawyer

Namaaz is actually a persian word. that's why Bangladeshis call it namaaz.

Bangla, as a language is a mesh of quite a few different languages, Mostly Sankrit. Grammar most probably comes from Sanskrit. A lot of Vocabulary are imported from Farsi and Arabic.

yeah our language is a mesh of different languages. we have words from Farsi,English,Arabic,hindi etc. Thats why in the OP I said I dont know if the guys in that video handpicked the words to sound similar

al Furqaan
April 7, 2018, 10:45 PM
Yeah they handpicked the words. I just saw this video a few weeks ago.

Even Sanskrit and Persian are related languages although not as closely related as Bangla and Hindi or Persian and Kurdish.

The following Persian and Bangla words are more or less identical:

kishmish (raisin)
mehman (guest)
aynah (mirror)
khobor (news)

I'm sure there's many more.

bangla-red
April 8, 2018, 06:48 AM
Interesting video, I managed to learn a few more shared bits of vocabulary from it. Yesterday I learnt the word সিন্দুক, which is from the Arabic صُنْدوق (via Persian). A lot of words of originally Arabic origin have come into Bangla through Persian, which is reflected by certain changes in pronunciation. For example, the w in Jawwad becoming a v in জাভেদ, which occurred first in Persian. Another word I've learnt recently is বকশিশ, which is from Turkish originally (not sure how it reached Bangla, could have been directly or through Arabic and Persian) and is used in Egyptian Arabic (بَكشيش). Learning a bit of Hindi really helped me to get an idea of the origin of Bangla vocabulary because their lexicon has more Arabic/Persian influence than ours.

By the way, what's wrong with this guy's Bangla? Is it just me or is he pronouncing everything incorrectly? naarkel, poshondo... I was really confused by that.

bujhee kom
April 8, 2018, 08:27 AM
...

By the way, what's wrong with this guy's Bangla? Is it just me or is he pronouncing everything incorrectly? naarkel, poshondo... I was really confused by that.

Ohh, so good to see you posting again after a long long time, my dearest dearest bangla-red Liverpool FC.

Now regarding your confusion, question: I myself was even more confused, you mean his is bhai? I thought she was an apu with a slight husky voice!! Ohh, I correct myself.

Now, listening to him more carefully, I don't think he is a Bangal. I think he is a Ghoti ( I mean dadababu, not a miah-bhai), that's why he talks like that.

bujhee kom
April 8, 2018, 08:32 AM
I will take this oppoirtunity to say this,
BY the way guys, many a times I said this, my name is Zaved...not Javed.
Like as in Zaved Mahmood.... not Javed Miandaad.

Please call me bk, zaved or harami or haramjada...please don't call me javed

bangla-red
April 8, 2018, 09:21 AM
Ohh, so good to see you posting again after a long long time, my dearest dearest bangla-red Liverpool FC.

Now regarding your confusion, question: I myself was even more confused, you mean his is bhai? I thought she was an apu with a slight husky voice!! Ohh, I correct myself.

Now, listening to him more carefully, I don't think he is a Bangal. I think he is a Ghoti ( I mean dadababu, not a miah-bhai), that's why he talks like that.

Hi bhaiya, good to hear from you. This is exactly the sort of topic that I love so it made me bother to log in for once and make a comment.

Even the way he said his name was very dodgy, Akaaaaaash. Very strange to me. A few more Persian words that have occurred to me are khub and kharap. It's possible that shoptah is also of Persian origin (just guessing because hafta is the original word, and it's the same in Hindi).

mufi_02
April 8, 2018, 11:13 AM
I think zaved is also a very persian name.

Yankees
April 8, 2018, 12:45 PM
Interesting video, I managed to learn a few more shared bits of vocabulary from it. Yesterday I learnt the word সিন্দুক, which is from the Arabic صُنْدوق (via Persian). A lot of words of originally Arabic origin have come into Bangla through Persian, which is reflected by certain changes in pronunciation. For example, the w in Jawwad becoming a v in জাভেদ, which occurred first in Persian. Another word I've learnt recently is বকশিশ, which is from Turkish originally (not sure how it reached Bangla, could have been directly or through Arabic and Persian) and is used in Egyptian Arabic (بَكشيش). Learning a bit of Hindi really helped me to get an idea of the origin of Bangla vocabulary because their lexicon has more Arabic/Persian influence than ours.

By the way, what's wrong with this guy's Bangla? Is it just me or is he pronouncing everything incorrectly? naarkel, poshondo... I was really confused by that.

Interesting post. :up:

There is a strong arab and persian influx/ migration to the subcontinent, so it's only natural. Even today, there are groups in India with the surname "Irani." General Jacob, as most of you probably already know, was a Baghdadi Jew.

Yankees
April 8, 2018, 12:52 PM
Now regarding your confusion, question: I myself was even more confused, you mean his is bhai? I thought she was an apu with a slight husky voice!! Ohh, I correct myself.

Now, listening to him more carefully, I don't think he is a Bangal. I think he is a Ghoti ( I mean dadababu, not a miah-bhai), that's why he talks like that.

Even the way he said his name was very dodgy, Akaaaaaash. Very strange to me. A few more Persian words that have occurred to me are khub and kharap. It's possible that shoptah is also of Persian origin (just guessing because hafta is the original word, and it's the same in Hindi).

:lol::lol: He is just an American/Candian born Bengali. You develop that accent when Bangla is your second language. Also, he definitely was playing up the similarities between the words.

al Furqaan
April 8, 2018, 01:37 PM
Hi bhaiya, good to hear from you. This is exactly the sort of topic that I love so it made me bother to log in for once and make a comment.

Even the way he said his name was very dodgy, Akaaaaaash. Very strange to me. A few more Persian words that have occurred to me are khub and kharap. It's possible that shoptah is also of Persian origin (just guessing because hafta is the original word, and it's the same in Hindi).

Hafta is also Sylheti for week.

Farsi and Urdu both say 'goftagoo' for chatting and Sylheti and Chatgayya use 'gof' as chatting.

Sylheti word for fever is 'taff' and Farsi it is 'tebb'. Other farsi dialects it might be 'taff' or 'teff' I think.

mufi_02
April 8, 2018, 03:12 PM
Hafta is also Sylheti for week.

Farsi and Urdu both say 'goftagoo' for chatting and Sylheti and Chatgayya use 'gof' as chatting.

Sylheti word for fever is 'taff' and Farsi it is 'tebb'. Other farsi dialects it might be 'taff' or 'teff' I think.

Stop trying to connect Farsi and sylethi lol.

Other Bengali dialects also say hopta/hofta and other variation.

Gof is gop. As in golpo to gop to gof.

Taaf is taap. As in heat/temperature or fever.

Sylethi dialect changes p to f

Yankees
April 8, 2018, 03:17 PM
Sylethi dialect changes p to f

hmm wonder what they call a puck?

mufi_02
April 8, 2018, 04:03 PM
hmm wonder what they call a puck?

Puck isn’t a bangla word (unless you mean pak ; clean OR paak ; to cook) so not sure how they pronounce it.

But let’s say paikhana will be pronounced as faikhhhana. The kh is also emphasized a bit more.

Meanwhile in borishal, p is mostly changed to h.

Now I wonder if paikhana is also Farsi. It does have “khana” which may indicate Farsi Arab roots and the Sanskrit word for that is “mol”

nw/Bk bhai any thought?

icricket
April 8, 2018, 07:41 PM
yup Sierra Sunny Leone. It was a gesture of thanks after Bangladeshi peacekeeping soldiers helped rebuild the country after their war.

Wow, thanks. Did not know about it.

-----

I went to school with a lot of Iranian. But other than khoda hafiz, and a very few other words, I did not understand anything Farsi.

Yankees
April 8, 2018, 08:24 PM
just saw this video. I dont know if these guys handpicked words that are similar for the sake of the video, but the similarity is uncanny. I always thought Bangla and Hindi both came from Sangskrit thats why these two languages are similar but where did persian came from!

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/B8AruyGvTcc" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

hmm i heard that after the video, he asked her "tomar phone number ki?"
and she replied "no sorry, not similar to Persian, dont understand"

Yankees
April 8, 2018, 08:42 PM
Puck isn’t a bangla word (unless you mean pak ; clean OR paak ; to cook) so not sure how they pronounce it.

But let’s say paikhana will be pronounced as faikhhhana. The kh is also emphasized a bit more.

Meanwhile in borishal, p is mostly changed to h.

Now I wonder if paikhana is also Farsi. It does have “khana” which may indicate Farsi Arab roots and the Sanskrit word for that is “mol”

nw/Bk bhai any thought?

This is interesting. So I came across this on wiki on different bengali dialects, similar to what you're saying:

English translation: "A man had two sons." (M=male indicated i.e. A man had two sons, P= person indicated, without gender, i.e. A person had two sons)

Bengali Shadhubhasha: "æk bektir duiṭi putrô chhilô." (P)

Nadia/Choltibhasha Standard: æk jon loker duţi chhele chhilo. (M)
Kolkata: æk jon loker duţo chhele chhilo. (M)

Eastern Dialects
Manikganj: æk zoner duiđi saoal asilo. (P)
Mymensingh: æk zôner dui put asilo. (P)
Munshiganj (Bikrampur): æk jôner duiđa pola asilo. (P)
Comilla: æk bæđar/zôner dui put asilo. (P)
Noakhali (Sandwip): æk jôner dui beţa asilo.
Noakhali (Feni): æk zôner dui hola asilo. (P)
Noakhali (Hatia): æk zôn mainsher duiđa hola asilo. (P)
Noakhali (Ramganj): ek zôner dui hut asilo. (P)
Sylhet: beṭa gur dugu fua asil. (M)
Chittagong: ugga mainshôr dugga fua asil. (P)

South Bengal dialects
Chuadanga : æk jon lokir duiţo seile silo. (M)
Khulna: æk zon manshir dui soal silo. (P)
Jessore: æk zoner duđe soal sêlo. (P)
Barisal (Bakerganj): æk zôn mansher dugga pola asil. (P)
Faridpur: kero mansher dugga pola silo. (P)
Satkhira: æk loker duđi sabal selo.
Kushtia: æk mansher duđi seile silo.

North Bengal dialects

Dinajpur: æk manusher dui chhaoa chhilô (P)
Pabna: kono mansher dui chhaoal chhilô. (P)
Bogra: æk jôn mansher dui chhara chhoul chhilô. (P)
East Malda: æk jhôn manuser duţa bêţa achhlô. (P)
Rangpur: æk zon mansher duikna bêţa asilo. (P)
Rajshahi: æk loker duida bæta chhilo. (P)

Western Border dialects

Manbhumi: ek loker duţa beţa chhilô. (M)
East Medinipur: gote loker duta toka thailo. (P)
The latter two, along with Kharia Thar and Mal Paharia, are closely related to Western Bengali dialects, but are typically classified as separate languages. Similarly, Rajbangsi and Hajong are considered separate languages, although they are very similar to North Bengali dialects. There are many more minor dialects as well, including those spoken in the bordering districts of Purnea and Singhbhum and among the tribals of the eastern Bangladesh like the Hajong and the Chakma.

Closely related languages
Assamese: ezôn manuhôr duta putek asil.
Hajong: ek zôn manôlôg duida pôla thakibar.
Chakma: ek jônôtun diba poa el.

bujhee kom
April 8, 2018, 09:12 PM
^^^yankees uncle....daroon...oshadhoron research and find!!!

bujhee kom
April 8, 2018, 09:16 PM
Mufti...give me a few minutes, I will come back and explain the origin of the word paikhana...I have a few ideas

One World
April 9, 2018, 02:08 PM
...
But let’s say paikhana will be pronounced as faikhhhana. The kh is also emphasized a bit more......

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_men_and_an_elephant

bujhee kom
April 9, 2018, 02:34 PM
hmm wonder what they call a puck?

Puck isn’t a bangla word (unless you mean pak ; clean OR paak ; to cook) so not sure how they pronounce it.

But let’s say paikhana will be pronounced as faikhhhana. The kh is also emphasized a bit more.

Meanwhile in borishal, p is mostly changed to h.

Now I wonder if paikhana is also Farsi. It does have “khana” which may indicate Farsi Arab roots and the Sanskrit word for that is “mol”

nw/Bk bhai any thought?

My sylhety dadi amma (RIP) used to say," Khita khoro bha? Khi faak korsot? Bou phaak korse ni?"
I would say," Dida, Khitha khou tumi, Eita Shormer khotha baad dau!!
tumar bouma phaak korse amar laagi...Shoirshar toil Begun bhazi - Anda bhazi!"

bujhee kom
April 9, 2018, 03:17 PM
Puck isn’t a bangla word (unless you mean pak ; clean OR paak ; to cook) so not sure how they pronounce it.

But let’s say paikhana will be pronounced as faikhhhana. The kh is also emphasized a bit more...

Now I wonder if paikhana is also Farsi. It does have “khana” which may indicate Farsi Arab roots and the Sanskrit word for that is “mol”

nw/Bk bhai any thought?

Mufti...give me a few minutes, I will come back and explain the origin of the word paikhana...I have a few ideas

Mufti, I did a little digging in my backyard of knowledge.
The origin of the word Paikhana is from the Mughol period, probably during the reign of Emp. Humayun. Origin is Urdu.

I think it may have some hybridanisation between indo Sanskrit and the newly developed language for the Mughol army/.

Pai - I think is originating from Sanskrit/Bangla 'Paayoo' meaning 'Anus'
Khana - do not think something you will eat. It means a place in Urdu/Farsi.
So it is a place, a toilet, 'Paikhana' where you let your paayoo do the talking or as changed and pronounced 'Pai' meaning the productos that comes out of your Paayoo and and you do all this very peacefully in a place 'khana', therefore 'Paikhana' or Latrine or Toilet. Now after many years at a Paikhana what we do is also called 'paikhana'

Hope this helps.

bujhee kom
April 9, 2018, 03:22 PM
So from now on, Mufti, you and me when at Paikhana, sitting peacefully and contemplating the universe, we can thank Shomrat Shahan Shah of sar-i Hindustaan Nasir Ud-din Muhammad Humayun and his Mughol Army and his commanders generals

Now I am trying to find the origin of the word: Bodna aka Lota

mufi_02
April 9, 2018, 03:49 PM
^hahaha..bk bhai too much.

so to answer nw's question, paikhana is the true word that has both farsi and Sanskrit roots. that very unique word which has both. so if anyone asks what languages influenced bangla, we can all say farsi and Sanskrit and the example for that is "paikhana".

we may close this thread now.

Nocturnal
April 15, 2018, 06:59 PM
had this first hand exp. with one of my Iranian co-worker ... we discovered so many similar words between these 2 beautiful languages ... had a good laugh in one lunch conversation!