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View Full Version : Abu Haider&Jayed and the state of our pace attack


dark mage
June 3, 2018, 04:11 AM
I have never watched Abu Jayed or Abu Haider bowl. How good are they? Are they similar type of bowlers? How fast are they? Do they swing it? Do they have potential to be better than Taskin or Al Amin who were both let downs. Do you think both Abu Haider ND Jayed deserve more chances? Coz I can only see Mustafiz declining from here on out as he doesn't seem to be learning from his mistakes no swing, no Yorkers, receding pace, over reliance on his predictable cutters, bowling short, getting injured and not using his head which used to be his strongest trait. Even after years Mash is still the best pacer we have produced and I wish Mash wasn't plagued by injuries during his prime then he had the potential to be an ATG who might've inspired a generation of fast bowlers like Rafique did and Shakib is doing with his left arm all-round ability. I am sad because I still remember how happy I was during the world cup in Australia because of how good our pace attack looked with Taskin, Rubel bowling at pace accurately while Mash was there to back them up with his wily swing and accuracy, and when Fizz joined them and we started having a 4 man pace attack I thought it was a Dawn of a new era and thought we'd become the best pace attack in Asia after Pakistan or on par. Who knew that it was nothing but a false dawn? Add to that we haven't got any leg spinners yet coz we managed zubayer horribly and our lone quality off spinner lacks support from the fielders, the wicket keeper who can't grab the edges and a think tank who can't think ahead and destroyed prospects like Zubayer and Miraz. We always go for the boring old safe formula of left arm mini all-rounders

Shadow
June 3, 2018, 05:14 AM
Here is a compilation of Abu Haider Rony's wickets in BPL 2015.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/3JzQYPz-TMY" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

tiger1000
June 3, 2018, 05:19 AM
How good are they?
Not great, Abu Hider can be a good T20 bowler, jayed will get ate up vs good batsmen as he balls couple of bad balls each over, perhaps better suited for tests than short format

Are they similar type of bowlers?
Ones left arm and other is right and apart from that still no


How fast are they?
Not very, Hider 80/130, Abu jayed averages around 83/135

Do they swing it?

First couple of overs Hider does, jayed a little too

Do they have potential to be better than Taskin or Al amin? No

Do you think both Abu Haider ND Jayed deserve more chances? Yes to Hider in T20, try jayed on tests over likes of rabbi and Rubel

Coz I can only see Mustafiz declining from here on out... He's 22, he's changed his action, his run up, let him have some time before writing him off, he needs to have more confidence in his yorkers again, but he's been world class in tests even though stats
Wont show it thanks to our wonderful fielding, he'll never be a swing bowler, but he's seamed it well in tests, his length also reflects a test match length in bangladesh now, which is dissapointing, he needs to be able to adapt between formats, but again he's only 22

Looking ahead to wc19, we need Taskin to regain form, simple as that, others aren't and won't be good enough

zura
June 3, 2018, 06:36 AM
How good are they?
Not great, Abu Hider can be a good T20 bowler, jayed will get ate up vs good batsmen as he balls couple of bad balls each over, perhaps better suited for tests than short format

Are they similar type of bowlers?
Ones left arm and other is right and apart from that still no


How fast are they?
Not very, Hider 80/130, Abu jayed averages around 83/135

Do they swing it?

First couple of overs Hider does, jayed a little too

Do they have potential to be better than Taskin or Al amin? No

Do you think both Abu Haider ND Jayed deserve more chances? Yes to Hider in T20, try jayed on tests over likes of rabbi and Rubel

Coz I can only see Mustafiz declining from here on out... He's 22, he's changed his action, his run up, let him have some time before writing him off, he needs to have more confidence in his yorkers again, but he's been world class in tests even though stats
Wont show it thanks to our wonderful fielding, he'll never be a swing bowler, but he's seamed it well in tests, his length also reflects a test match length in bangladesh now, which is dissapointing, he needs to be able to adapt between formats, but again he's only 22

Looking ahead to wc19, we need Taskin to regain form, simple as that, others aren't and won't be good enough

Taskin only had his pace in him and loved bowling short. It was what that benefited him in the World Cup 2015. When he lost the pace, he lost his only advantage. He needs to lose some weight and get to strength training if he ever wants to came a come-back.

Also, does anyone know much about Qazi Onik, Yasin Araft or Robiul Haque?

DinRaat.
June 3, 2018, 06:45 AM
Do you guys remember Taskin, in the Asia Cup 2016, bowled 145+

zura
June 3, 2018, 06:45 AM
Do you guys remember Taskin, in the Asia Cup 2016, bowled 145+

Now our "fast spinner" bowls faster than him.

DinRaat.
June 3, 2018, 06:48 AM
Taskin is DONE, that guy aint coming back..... This is what happen when you praise mediocrity.

DinRaat.
June 3, 2018, 06:48 AM
Sabbir Rahman,Tamim Iqbal,AH Rony,RK,Mohammad Shahzad and Nabi is the only reason I will watch this

tiger1000
June 3, 2018, 08:43 AM
Taskin only had his pace in him and loved bowling short. It was what that benefited him in the World Cup 2015. When he lost the pace, he lost his only advantage. He needs to lose some weight and get to strength training if he ever wants to came a come-back.

Also, does anyone know much about Qazi Onik, Yasin Araft or Robiul Haque?

He had good bounce and could seem it off a length, in fact he actually can still so that

But instead of bowling just short of a good length and good length, he just bowls short now

If he goes short he needs to go really short, not no man's land like he does

He's got too much muscle mass on him, he needs to drop 20lbs and trim down

R0ssei
June 4, 2018, 09:47 AM
I agree with tiger1000 here.

5-8, 5-9 height pace bowlers won't do miracle at Int'l level unless you have an x-factor or superb on line-length. Unfortunately, most of our bowlers are not. Hence, Mash and Taskin stand apart. However, Taskin is useless w/o his pace. If he doesn't regain 140+ pace which I doubt; he is pretty much done.

I've seen some of Abu Hider Rony's bowling. He has seem control and can swing initially, but lacks in pace. He can be used in shorter format when Fizz is injured or on a break.

Mehedi Hasan Rana can be tried. He is another left-armer, but seems to have more pace n bounce.

tiger1000
June 4, 2018, 10:23 AM
I agree with tiger1000 here.

5-8, 5-9 height pace bowlers won't do miracle at Int'l level unless you have an x-factor or superb on line-length. Unfortunately, most of our bowlers are not. Hence, Mash and Taskin stand apart. However, Taskin is useless w/o his pace. If he doesn't regain 140+ pace which I doubt; he is pretty much done.

I've seen some of Abu Hider Rony's bowling. He has seem control and can swing initially, but lacks in pace. He can be used in shorter format when Fizz is injured or on a break.

Mehedi Hasan Rana can be tried. He is another left-armer, but seems to have more pace n bounce.

Taskin need to be bowling 140 +

But even at 135 he's better than jayed and Abul, he never looked as poor as those

R0ssei
June 4, 2018, 10:35 AM
How about we bring this university lad, some Mohor Sheikh Ontor guy, who seems to bowl twice the speed Al-Amin bowled at Clemon Indoor Cricket 2018:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/GxXCpHdjhwI" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Rifat_02
June 4, 2018, 10:35 AM
There is a big problem with finding new good players, I fear for the day when our senior players will retire. Is BCB trying to fix this issue or they think Bangladesh team doesn't need anyone as Sir Abul Hasan is there

zura
June 4, 2018, 11:29 AM
I agree with tiger1000 here.

5-8, 5-9 height pace bowlers won't do miracle at Int'l level unless you have an x-factor or superb on line-length. Unfortunately, most of our bowlers are not. Hence, Mash and Taskin stand apart. However, Taskin is useless w/o his pace. If he doesn't regain 140+ pace which I doubt; he is pretty much done.

I've seen some of Abu Hider Rony's bowling. He has seem control and can swing initially, but lacks in pace. He can be used in shorter format when Fizz is injured or on a break.

Mehedi Hasan Rana can be tried. He is another left-armer, but seems to have more pace n bounce.

Taskin is over 6 foot 2 and he had nothing aside from Pace. Hasan Ali (Pakistani pacer) is 5'8 and he is a very good pacer. In international cricket you can't really solely rely on pace unless you can deliver over 150 km/h, especially a yorker.

Mehedi Hasan Rana has nothing special to him. Qazi Onik can swing the ball and we can also try Yasin Arafat.

We should play more limited over games against weaker teams like Nepal, U.A.E and the likes to give players like Abu Hider, Abu Jayed to try and develop themselves than throw them at the helms of crucial international games and try to learn from their mistakes there. We don't have the domestic structure to develop players for International cricket as of yet.

R0ssei
June 4, 2018, 11:48 AM
Taskin is over 6 foot 2 and he had nothing aside from Pace. Hasan Ali (Pakistani pacer) is 5'8 and he is a very good pacer. In international cricket you can't really solely rely on pace unless you can deliver over 150 km/h, especially a yorker.

Mehedi Hasan Rana has nothing special to him. Qazi Onik can swing the ball and we can also try Yasin Arafat.

We should play more limited over games against weaker teams like Nepal, U.A.E and the likes to give players like Abu Hider, Abu Jayed to try and develop themselves than throw them at the helms of crucial international games and try to learn from their mistakes there. We don't have the domestic structure to develop players for International cricket as of yet.

When you're over 6 feet and hit the deck hard with some pace (140-145), that's way better than a 5'7'' bowling at 130 with a hint of movement (=no swing). The latter's bad balls are way easier to hit 4's and 6's.

I did not say that pace is everything. For a player like Taskin, who cannot swing/move the ball at all, pace is everything for him. When I will have 3 pacers in my team for any format, I would like one of them bowl at 140-145, if not 150 (very few bowlers in the world bowl at 150+).

Hasan Ali has a deceptive pace. And he is smart reading batsman's mind. Moreover, he is high on confidence which helps a lot in Int'l match situations. BTW, he chucks at times.

Rinathq
June 4, 2018, 10:26 PM
When you're over 6 feet and hit the deck hard with some pace (140-145), that's way better than a 5'7'' bowling at 130 with a hint of movement (=no swing). The latter's bad balls are way easier to hit 4's and 6's.

I did not say that pace is everything. For a player like Taskin, who cannot swing/move the ball at all, pace is everything for him. When I will have 3 pacers in my team for any format, I would like one of them bowl at 140-145, if not 150 (very few bowlers in the world bowl at 150+).

Hasan Ali has a deceptive pace. And he is smart reading batsman's mind. Moreover, he is high on confidence which helps a lot in Int'l match situations. BTW, he chucks at times.

140-145 is actually a more batsman friendly pace then 130. Its when u can bowl around 150 or up, you become a headache. In order to be a good seamer in sub continent conditions (Which is where we play 80% of our games), one needs to have accuracy, ability to bowl slowers and knuckle deliveries and a bit of swing. Thats why bowlers like Hasan Ali, Bumrah, Bhuvi are so effective.

Rifat
June 4, 2018, 10:44 PM
what about that Mohammad Mrittunjoy kid, there was quite a bit of hype about him. wouldn't hurt to try him out for a couple of T20s...

Max100
June 4, 2018, 11:13 PM
i think something wrong with walsh. most probably he is making them ineffective. when streak was here, there was huge competition among fast bowlers. we have seem mash-rubel-mustafiz and taskin played together in main XI and alamin even didnt get chance.

abu hider, jayed both has potential. they need a good coach

Max100
June 4, 2018, 11:13 PM
i think kazi anik should be tried in T20

Naimul_Hd
June 5, 2018, 12:56 AM
i think kazi anik should be tried in T20

Too early. The way forward is not to pick any promising under 19 boys into the national team for next 2 years. Let them play and grow in domestic circle and 'A' team tours first before they can be considered for national team.

mehedi
June 5, 2018, 04:04 AM
i think kazi anik should be tried in T20

I think so, too. I feel he should have been picked ahead of abul. He seemed to be better than abul already at this age.

Gowza
June 5, 2018, 04:17 AM
Onik and hider are probably the best t20 pacers after fizz, but it’s really early to bring in qazi, though he’s done well to date.

Mas_UK25
June 5, 2018, 08:26 AM
Onik and hider are probably the best t20 pacers after fizz, but it’s really early to bring in qazi, though he’s done well to date.

As the saying goes. If you’re good enough, you’re old enough.

Mas_UK25
June 5, 2018, 08:44 AM
Thing is both Abul and Jayed, are similar ish bowlers. Although it was great to see two Sylhet region pacers playing in the same XI after over a decade since Tapash Baisya & Nazmul Hossain. But, I wasn’t thrilled by none of their bowlings. Both bowled far to length, hitting zone at the end overs. And bowlers like Jayed must finish off within say 14overs. Abul, is far to one dimensional, tries slower ones literally every ball, he has got the pace we once thought he had, hardly hits up above 140! So you’re left with two medium pacers, both bowl similar. And then you have rubel, who is bit of spray gun most times, on his day is fine, but he too has many issues and his obsession with short pitched deliveries.

BD attack without Fizz, is weak. For me, as I’ve always said, you got to back Taskin no matter what. He is the fastest ATM, and tallest by far. You need a big tall pacer in the XI, especially WC in England. On those English wickets a taller fast pacer will likely gain a bit more out of it and makes a better threat (not that he will he a major hit all times) and based on availability BD have, Taskin is one must be backed and helped, pumped up, do whatever to educated the boy to understand bowling/cricket, ways, methods, how to get better. He is one you invest alot, because he has something and can be brilliant on his day.

You don’t just drop a player for going for runs in some games. Even Muralitharan got tonked for 40+ runs plenty of times and Steyns and many top bowlers. It happens, it’s the nature of the format/LOI. Some days you will he taken apart, but it doesn’t mean the end of the world. But I guess our fans, people, Bengalis are very critical to their own heavily after a failures.

Liverpool lost the CL. Did you see the match? The fans were singing You will never walk alone, cheering the boys, despite the loss fans were proud and made the players felt still special. I guess those types attitudes, behaviour, mentality, way of thinking from fans it’s long before reaches certain parts of the world!

Rifat_02
June 5, 2018, 08:47 AM
Liverpool lost the CL. Did you see the match? The fans were singing You will never walk alone, cheering the boys, despite the loss fans were proud and made the players felt still special. I guess those types attitudes, behaviour, mentality, way of thinking from fans it’s long before reaches certain parts of the world!

Fans in Bangladesh are too negative about the team after a loss if you ask me, all those series wins versus big teams and yet we still think the team is not good enough to beat Afghanistan, and i guess some of the players have this mindset too, lack of confidence is a big issue

Fazal
June 5, 2018, 02:24 PM
In T20, is it a confidence issue? Or more than that like the acceptance of the reality that our core team (for T20) may not be good enough. In t20 batsman can get out cheaply once in a while, but should not get out cheaply consistently. And when its their's day, still they are not explosive enough.

A good bowler can have a bad over here and there, but if a experienced bowler have 3+ bad overs in a game, may be that bolwer is not good enough for this format.

Example:
Tamim stayed long enough and scored 43. But he wasted 47 balls. Created pressure to other batsman.
Shakib got out cheaply. No problem, it happens. but in the process he wasted 7 balls to score 3 runs.
Shakib and Rubel both experienced bowler bowled 4 below par overs each.

dark mage
June 6, 2018, 11:23 PM
Either way our bowling has always been so boring to watch except for Mustafiz in his early days. We've never had a pacer who could swing the ball both ways at will, never had Express fast bowlers, or an off/leg spinner who can turn the ball and really rip it. All we ever had are some boring left armers. Shakib used to really rip the ball before but now he too doesn't turn the ball much.

After so many years in international cricket we still don't have a leggie or a swing bowler or a power hitting batsman who can hit the ball outta the stadium during the powerplays or at the end of the innings. No wonder we suck at T20s and Tests.

Take away our performing senior batsmen and you'd be left with a team worse than Nepal and they have the audacity of designating Mominul solely as a test bat and would rather pick hacks like Shabbir or Soumya or Nasir. By not playing Mominul in ODIs you're destroying his batting prospects even in test coz he is only left to compete with ordinary people in our local leagues. There is no vision among our selectors or other BCB officials and if things continue this way cricket too would spiral down to Football's sorry state in the country

dark mage
June 7, 2018, 01:54 PM
Well after watching both Abu Haider and Jayed bowl, my verdict is they are both better than the likes of Shafiul, Al- Amin and Abul. If they got pace friendly conditions and a bit of experience under their belt they will come good for us.

Max100
June 7, 2018, 01:58 PM
i think hider and jayed both deserve a long run

Shadow
June 7, 2018, 02:00 PM
I would say Abu Hider and Subashis Roy have good seam presentation among the pacers.

adamnsu
June 7, 2018, 02:06 PM
Hider looked better and bowled with aggression. Abu Jayed didn’t look that impressive

dark mage
June 7, 2018, 02:30 PM
Jayed didnt look as impressive but I get the feeling he is the sort of bowler who can bowl according to the coach and captains game plan executing them perfectly as he demonstrated them in his two wickets today. We need bowlers who can ball according to a plan and the fieldplacing. But even without this Jayed is still definitely better than Shafiul, Al-Amin and Abul

simon
June 7, 2018, 02:37 PM
I did not see the last 2 matches but I saw Abu in 1st game.
I think we should persist with Hider, not so convinced with Abu eventhough tody his bowling figure looks impressive.

Shingara
June 7, 2018, 02:46 PM
Jayed didnt look as impressive but I get the feeling he is the sort of bowler who can bowl according to the coach and captains game plan executing them perfectly as he demonstrated them in his two wickets today. We need bowlers who can ball according to a plan and the fieldplacing. But even without this Jayed is still definitely better than Shafiul, Al-Amin and Abul

Why are you classing Al-Amin the same as Shafiul ?
Al-amin is our top bowler after Mash and Fizz. He doesn't get selected because of Shujon the chor. He has a personal vendetta against him

dark mage
June 7, 2018, 07:48 PM
Because i always thought Al-Amin got his wickets purely on luck. He never looked like he had anything special about him and he kinda used to Chuck and even I could see it with the naked eye. But yeah he deserved more chances since he was getting wickets and certainly didn't deserve the treatment he got from the team management

And our top bowler after Fizz and Mash has always been Rubel. he might suck in tests but Rubels stats in ODIs back him up and he single- handedly won us matches with some amazing spells. People tend to forget Rubels contribution just because he got smacked at the end of the innings

Rifat
June 7, 2018, 10:35 PM
Abu Jayed has decent variations but he has lost a lot of pace since his Under 19 days....There was a point in time when Abu Jayed can occasionally crank it up to 140 kph.. not sure what happened to him. In the U-19 world cup, he did remove Australian openers in quick succession with his skill. I have always been a big fan of Abu Jayed. let's see if he improves. there are some work that he needs to do offseason to increase his pace.

Max100
June 7, 2018, 10:46 PM
qazi anik is another great prospect

Gowza
June 7, 2018, 11:25 PM
qazi anik is another great prospect

Worth keeping an eye on yeasin and shoriful as well, qazi has played a few more matches than those two though, and he’s still doing well so definitely a solid prospect though watching him in the u19 WC I didn’t see anything particularly special about him. Can’t argue numbers though, he’s done well so far that’s for sure, then again saifuddin had good numbers before international debut, taskin was a revelation...

tiger1000
June 8, 2018, 06:49 AM
Well after watching both Abu Haider and Jayed bowl, my verdict is they are both better than the likes of Shafiul, Al- Amin and Abul. If they got pace friendly conditions and a bit of experience under their belt they will come good for us.

Al amin is a level above the
and, easily.

I don't know what you were watching

tiger1000
June 8, 2018, 06:53 AM
Because i always thought Al-Amin got his wickets purely on luck. He never looked like he had anything special about him and he kinda used to Chuck and even I could see it with the naked eye. But yeah he deserved more chances since he was getting wickets and certainly didn't deserve the treatment he got from the team management

And our top bowler after Fizz and Mash has always been Rubel. he might suck in tests but Rubels stats in ODIs back him up and he single- handedly won us matches with some amazing spells. People tend to forget Rubels contribution just because he got smacked at the end of the innings

He didn't chuck, it was hyperextension, you could see it from side view, naked eye can't tell full image from one angle, that's why he never failed a test

And luck?

Luck doesn't exist for so long against top opposition, he didn't get wickets using luck, he got wickets by doing the basics right, he bowled aggressively and often at the stumps, he had good bounce, good speed, excellent leg cutter, seam movement and he was always bowled aggressive backing it up with an excellent bouncer

zura
June 8, 2018, 02:58 PM
Wasn't the reason Al-Amin doesn't get selected is because of his discipline issue?

tiger1000
June 8, 2018, 03:46 PM
Wasn't the reason Al-Amin doesn't get selected is because of his discipline issue?

That's my understanding

Gowza
June 8, 2018, 07:12 PM
Al amin’s discipline should’ve been sorted then he should’ve got more matches in shorter formats, could’ve got more in tests though he did look quite toothless in the tests I saw him bowling (stats suggest that as well) but have to say he probably beat the bat more than any other BD pacer in the shorter formats, needed to translate it into his test game.

Weird though, plenty of BD players have had discipline issues I mean sabbir slapping a child still plays so what’s really happened with al amin?