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al Furqaan
August 10, 2018, 10:41 PM
The big 4 are all in their prime now, they won't be getting any better than they already are. In ODIs, they have all been quite good over the last few years, customary choke jobs notwithstanding. Their ages are as follows:

Riyad 32
Shakib 31
Mushy 31
Tamim 29

Now SC players usually play well beyond their shelf dates and usually end up being cut from the team before they reluctantly retire. A lot of Asian players (batsmen in particular) have played till their late 30s or even till 40 (Jayasuriya, Sanga, Misbah, Younis, Tendulkar, Herath, and surely more).

So how many more years will these guys have?

Mushy, Tamim, and Riyad have good work ethic and are fit. I expect them to stick around till the 2023 WC, by which point Riyad will be 37. Tamim, has indicated his hunger to score 10K runs, etc so I expect he will try and play till the 2027 tournament. Shakib a few years ago targetted the 2023 WC, so he might actually be the first of the Big 4 to call it a day.

Rinathq
August 10, 2018, 11:08 PM
Like you said, all 4 of them have the work ethic and fitness to last till 23. If they can do that, it will be impressive indeed as they will have played 5 world cups!

But I see Shakib retiring from tests in 2-3 years and maybe Riyad as well

aklemalp
August 10, 2018, 11:09 PM
Riyad will continue to play into his forties. He is peaking. He can do a Misbah.

Tamim will fade away by age 36

Shakib is the one with the most workload. I reckon he will play till 37-38

Mushy- same as Riad. Needs to give up keeping and focus primarily on his batting.

ToBeFair
August 11, 2018, 02:55 AM
Upto WC2023

Yankees
August 11, 2018, 03:24 AM
Big 4? :lol::lol::lol:

adamnsu
August 11, 2018, 07:56 AM
When I read the title I thought it was the top greedy international teams who are trying to destroy international cricket due to financial gains only.

Well it depends on the players and formats. I think all 4 might finish playing Tests in 3-4 years. ODI probably max they might go to is 36-37 if they are physically fit. Also it depends on the new players cementing their position in the team.

I think Shakib might be the first one to go.

iDumb
August 11, 2018, 08:03 AM
Riyad don't belong there . He can't even make the test team .

Tigers_eye
August 11, 2018, 08:03 AM
....Their ages are as follows:

Riyad 32
Shakib 31
Mushy 31
Tamim 29...If Shakib and Mushi are same age then Shakib would never address him as bhai and Mushi as Moyna. +1 or +2 factor in most cases.

I'd say five years and we have to find better players.

If only Sarkar would develop consistency I wouldn't be worried.

godzilla
August 11, 2018, 09:05 AM
Big 4? :lol::lol::lol:

Technically big 5 but one will be retiring after 2019 WC - assuming his leg still holds up. That's all we have for now ... LOL.

Tausif
August 11, 2018, 09:46 AM
It's technically Big 3. Riyad's impact is not so huge and we can replace him easier than the other 3.

I'd say they all play till 2023. Shakib will retire from tests in a couple of years but will play 2023 WC.

al Furqaan
August 11, 2018, 11:32 AM
It's technically Big 3. Riyad's impact is not so huge and we can replace him easier than the other 3.

I'd say they all play till 2023. Shakib will retire from tests in a couple of years but will play 2023 WC.

Riyad is very much up there with Tamim-Shakib-Mushy as an ODI/T20I player. In Tests, he's the vice captain and needlessly hogging up Mosaddek's rightful place.

al Furqaan
August 11, 2018, 11:35 AM
Tamim and Mushy are hungry to play Tests. I can see Shakib retiring from Tests in 2021 after the first cycle of the League ends. I'd like to see Shakib play till he got to 5000 runs and 300 wickets, but he probably won't be able to get there by 2021.

Navo
August 11, 2018, 01:18 PM
I like looking at this list of most 5 wicket hauls in an innings, from time to time:
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/wi/content/records/283354.html

How far can Shakib climb in this list? Vettori is just above him (having played 60 more tests).

zura
August 11, 2018, 02:18 PM
Riyad is very much up there with Tamim-Shakib-Mushy as an ODI/T20I player. In Tests, he's the vice captain and needlessly hogging up Mosaddek's rightful place.

I am gonna put Mominul as the one taking Mossadek's place. Guy has a test average of 25 away from home. At least Mahmudullah can bowl.

zura
August 11, 2018, 02:22 PM
In a few year's time we will be having other players coming into the fold and taking in more responsibilities but we can't really do that with giving has beens chance after chance (Sabbir and Sarkar for ODI). And neither can we let guys ride onto the performance of one innings into the next series.

godzilla
August 11, 2018, 02:43 PM
^ i have a feeling Sabbir will fade away in the next couple of months/year. Not only is he not performing, his social media scandal/abusive behaviour outside cricket is also going to play a role.

zura
August 11, 2018, 02:46 PM
^ i have a feeling Sabbir will fade away in the next couple of months/year. Not only is he not performing, his social media scandal/abusive behaviour outside cricket is also going to play a role.

He definitely has admirers in the selection panel and the higher ups in the team. The guy got in the national team after he was banned from domestic cricket. The selectors are the main problem. In fact there are plenty of people at BCB who still hold a soft spot for Ashraful and want him back in the team.

Gowza
August 11, 2018, 06:41 PM
I am gonna put Mominul as the one taking Mossadek's place. Guy has a test average of 25 away from home. At least Mahmudullah can bowl.

Hey sorry, but riyad averages 22 away from home...

Gowza
August 11, 2018, 07:36 PM
I think Tamim has the most drive of the lot, he seems to like challenge of international cricket, likes the pressure of being a senior player leading by example and wants to break BD records so I wouldn’t be surprised if he played for the longest.

Get the feeling riyad isn’t particularly fussed so also wouldn’t be surprised if he was the first to retire.

I think though shakib will probably give up test cricket sooner than the others because it looks to be his least favourite format plus injuries are building with this finger surgery coming up. But I think he may well play for quite a while longer in the shorter formats. I wonder if he’s still test captain and t20 captain when mash retires, if they don’t hand h8m the ODI captaincy maybe he’ll get a bit peeved and go rogue or just make himself available for t20s.

I reckon less than 5 years, unless Tamim has a particular itch to continue on for more records and kind of mentorship of younger players.

Mushy seems to of lost some desire, he doesn’t have as much grit as he used to imo otherwise he’d be scoring a lot more runs than he is and getting the team over the line more, but he also seems like the type of player that maybe won’t leave unless he’s kicked out.

Roey Haque
August 11, 2018, 09:32 PM
I hope a new player comes and disciplines Rahim. Make him bat without all the other non sense. If he performs, he stays. If not, he gets thrown to the wolves.

brockley
August 11, 2018, 10:25 PM
Thought you meant the top 4 nations by your title.
Plenty of time left.
37 too old.

Yankees
August 11, 2018, 11:15 PM
In my eyes, there's only the Big 2: Mullah and Imrul. And then there's the rest. God bless our master plasters.

brockley
August 11, 2018, 11:45 PM
At 37 a good player decline is rapid.
An average player like Mahmudullah its more likely 34 or 35.

ToBeFair
August 11, 2018, 11:53 PM
I hope a new player comes and disciplines Rahim. Make him bat without all the other non sense. If he performs, he stays. If not, he gets thrown to the wolves.

No wonder you are a Trump supporter. It's called alternative reality.

al Furqaan
August 12, 2018, 12:34 PM
I hope a new player comes and disciplines Rahim. Make him bat without all the other non sense. If he performs, he stays. If not, he gets thrown to the wolves.

That won't happen. Firstly, Rahim has a huge ego. Probably a Napoleanic complex. But even when his captaincy was crap (arguably BD's strategy at the time, see note marked with asterisk below), he refused to give it up. When his wicket keeping was crap he refused to give it up. Secondly, he's one of the senior guys, and bengali culture is essentially one of elder worship. So his morobbi status alone will aid him.

Overall, if there is any personality in the team that this team should be moulded after, Rahim is the best choice IMO. He plays with passion, you can tell when Bangladesh wins, even if Rahim played poorly, he's over the moon. If the team loses, Mushy is the most glum out of the lot even if he scored a hundred. Compare to Shakib who would probably be busy getting into beef with fans (most probably the fans fault, but still).

Mushy is not afraid to speak his mind. I remember that instagram feed after the WI knocked India out and Rahim used social media in the most awesome way. He got the entire cricketing world to come out and show their hatred of Bangladesh the same way the world came after America after we left the Paris climate accord and the Iran deal. This is exactly the sort of leadership Bangladesh needs if we want to be a major cricketing power. Right now, England refuse to host us, Australia refuse to host us. If Bangladesh was half as good as Rahim is overseas, none of this would be happening.

In addition to this, Rahim is universally respected amongst the senior core group of players whose power is second only to Papon himself. They forced Hathurasinghe to resign. But Tamim-Shakib-Riyad respect Rahim because they recognize that he is the most complete batsman that Bangladesh has produced till date (Tamim is a close second, but loses points since he's an opener).

As a batsman Rahim is our most polished:

1) he has the most compact technique out of any player we've produced. Tamim is a somewhat close second and Mominul is third.
2) due to #1 above its little surprise that Mushy has a better Test batting average overseas than at home, and has 80% of his centuries in overseas matches (4 out of 5).
3) he can bat according to the situation at hand. he can either come in during a collapse and anchor an innings, or he can come in and blast off in the dying stages of an innings.
4) he can score 360 degrees of the pitch. we all know he loves the slog to deep midwicket, but he also has picture perfect cover drives, deft late cuts backward of square, and twice hooked Dale Steyn in his pomp for 6 on a Test match greentop in South Africa.

If there is any blemish on his record so far, its only been his recent trend of bottling tight chases. But its all in his head, and he will get over it, as he has seen us through before (World Cup vs India 2007, Asia Cup 2012 vs India, Test win in Colombo 2017, etc).

But my personal favorite thing about Rahim is his work ethic. Along with Mominul, he's the hardest working and most dedicated cricketer we have. And the results show it. With his fitness and tenacity, plus subcontinent cultural trends, I can see Rahim playing on till he's 40, till 2027. Maybe even a couple of years past that.

Rahim is exactly the type of player we need more of, and because we haven't is why we are ranked 7th in ODIs and 9th in Tests instead of being a top 5 team in both formats.

Roey Haque
August 12, 2018, 12:51 PM
I know we need him as a batsman. But you are stretching his immature antics to suit your narrative. Getting people to express hate for us? What? Cannot buy all that, sorry. But I like that you finally seem to understand what my gripe with him is about. The guy is extremely self centered, isn't he? All about him, putting others down, wearing emotions on his sleeves. A total mess. I need him to bat and stop with all the other bull. If he can't do that, then I need him to F off.

That is my position. But I respect your position. Interesting views. Maybe we can debate this issue on a pod in the future.

Shingara
August 12, 2018, 03:25 PM
Bigger question is : What will happen to our cricket after they retire? There's nothing in our pipeline .. none of the newbies have impressed anyone ... our cricket is doomed!

al Furqaan
August 12, 2018, 03:27 PM
The guy is extremely self centered, isn't he? All about him, putting others down, wearing emotions on his sleeves. A total mess.

But thats what true leadership is about or at least should be about. Its about being bold enough to do what is necessary. Lets assume for arguments sake that there are certain people who aren't secure enough and get upset by his so-called "antics"...why is Mushfiqur (or his fans) obligated to accommodate them? That doesn't make any sense to me. Its not like he's committed a crime. If there is a better player out there, let them score the runs, and he will automatically be selected. But there isn't (apart from Mosaddek who is being forced out by Riyad in the Test side - but thats a different story).

Bangladesh cricket should not have to tip toe around egg shells. We are BANGLADESH. Its only our own ineptitude shackling our team from becoming the best team in cricket.

If Shakib wants grab his crotch during a game, I'm all for it. If Mushy makes an instagram video supporting one team over another, I'm all for it. In fact if there is any scope for criticism, its that be backed down to the haters and deleted it. Those people don't have the best interests of Bangladesh cricket at heart.

The main point is, Mushy has a toughness that is rare. He got hit by a 150 kph beamer [possibly intentionally thrown] by Varun Aaaron and kept batting. He batted with bruised, probably fractured fingers in NZ and hit a top class hundred. Thats the kind of toughness we need in all XI players. The "antics" are just a bonus, the cherry on top of the sundae.

My two cents and I agree should be a good topic for a podcast. :flag:

Roey Haque
August 12, 2018, 03:50 PM
No, after reading your post, I don't think you got me. I don't care how we appear to others you see, that is not my beef with Rahim. His antics do not matter or relate to others, it matters to the team. It hurts the team. When you have a guy like that in the locker room, always bragging and making it about him, and failing to acknowledge his own limitations, it sets in motion a weak culture like no other. It sucks the life force out of the place to go to work with a egotistic attention absorbing guy like that.

Again, I agree, he has developed himself into a great bat and that it is incumbent upon others to replace him. Which is why in my original comment I precisely wish for this to happen. A new guy to come with the skills and performances, but also a better cultural influence. (even though it did take Rahim many years before he stopped crapping his pants against bowling)

al Furqaan
August 12, 2018, 04:21 PM
No, after reading your post, I don't think you got me. I don't care how we appear to others you see, that is not my beef with Rahim. His antics do not matter or relate to others, it matters to the team. It hurts the team. When you have a guy like that in the locker room, always bragging and making it about him, and failing to acknowledge his own limitations, it sets in motion a weak culture like no other. It sucks the life force out of the place to go to work with a egotistic attention absorbing guy like that.



There's no evidence that it has a negative effect on the team. In fact the empirical data would suggest otherwise.

I don't think anyone could name an example of a leader who's bragging and self-centeredness could have deleterious effects on the wider work environment or culture. Its just a figment of the imagination in my opinion. If a leader isn't going to brag, then there isn't anyone who can. Senior guys on the team should have the confidence in us fans, and the authority to behave as they see fit. They are scoring the runs, they are taking the wickets. Not the coaches, not the admin, not even us fans (as wise as we might be :D)

But MR15 has been the longest serving captain for Bangladesh in both formats. That longevity is testament to his superiority as a leader on and off the field. The mould of what the team should emulate.

Mushy has led the team to all 3 of our teams major Test wins. All previous captains combined (Durjoy, Akram, Pilot, Chacha, Bashar, Ashraful, Shakib, and Mash) have combined for 0. This is actually where the debate ends.

Plus countless drawn matches that allowed BD to gradually rise in the rankings. It was under Rahim's captaincy that visiting tours stopped assuming tours to BD would be a 2-0 sweep.

The other 10 players are actually thriving under the climate he's introducing in the locker room and on the field. He has the respect of all the rest of the players and thats the main thing. The recognize his value to the team, even if he's not the captain anymore, everyone knows he's the psychological captain of the Test and T20I sides.

Additionally, unless you've actually been in the dressing room or privy to the goings on, you're basing your assumptions based on Prothom Alo or Daily Star reporting. If the guys writing the reports aren't supportive of Mushfiqur in general, their reports have to dismissed in their entirety. These things happened with Ashraful before. There were groups who thought he should be stripped of captaincy or dropped due to his inconsistent play. A lot of these reporters couldn't get any other job so they resort to inventing stuff in order to sow discord within the team and get fans to rally against certain players.

Roey Haque
August 12, 2018, 06:55 PM
We are still awful in the rankings. And whatever results we got, I don't know if it is because of the leadership, or in spite of the leadership. Anyway, we need the experience and batsmanship, so no chance of leaving him out now. But surely, you would agree that it would better if Liton takes over the gloves, or Nurul for that matter. Why don't they deserve all the chances Rahim got at the front end of his career?

Yes, times are different now, Rinat covered this by saying how the ICL exodus meant the players getting an extended run in the teams, also the fact, that there is more internal competition now( though about that, we have to revisit that issue about the competition now being better, not sure yet). But still, I don't understand how you can spin Rahim not giving up the gloves as a positive trait? He shouts a lot when we get wickets, but when the batsmen on crease start to hammer us, he goes quiet as a mouse.

His type of bragging is not like the Kobe Bryant type, who brags, but is quietly excellent, and focused towards winning only. His type of bragging is more like Russel Westrbook, freakishly talented and plays with heart, but always inserts himself into situations and leaves others deflated.
Anyway, I don't think we will ever agree on the long term negative impact of Rahim because you are more practical than me, but I am more idealistic than you.

Yankees
August 12, 2018, 08:26 PM
But MR15 has been the longest serving captain for Bangladesh in both formats. That longevity is testament to his superiority as a leader on and off the field. The mould of what the team should emulate.


Just to be sure, you're talking about this guy right?

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/QjWTC2_hE_I?start=62" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Just remember correlation does not imply causation. A lot of factors lead to our 3 test wins, captaincy wasn't one of them.

al Furqaan
August 12, 2018, 10:38 PM
We are still awful in the rankings. And whatever results we got, I don't know if it is because of the leadership, or in spite of the leadership. Anyway, we need the experience and batsmanship, so no chance of leaving him out now. But surely, you would agree that it would better if Liton takes over the gloves, or Nurul for that matter. Why don't they deserve all the chances Rahim got at the front end of his career?


I've been calling for Rahim to drop the gloves and bat as a specialist in Tests at least since 2012, or even earlier. I think AsifTheManRahman was the first one to make that call and that was eons ago.

I am a firm supporter of having Nurul keep wicket and having Liton open with Tamim.

I just want Riyad out and Mosaddek in. And I want Rubel banished from the Test side till the next Brahma takes over from the current one.

He shouts a lot when we get wickets, but when the batsmen on crease start to hammer us, he goes quiet as a mouse.

Thats all WK though. Even captains start removing slips and bat pad catchers when a batsmen is on 150 not out. You won't ever see a batsman on 150 not out facing a 5 man slip cordon. Thats just cricket.

I just admire his tenacious attitude and his toughness. And his batting technique which is tight enough to hold water.

Anyway, I don't think we will ever agree on the long term negative impact of Rahim because you are more practical than me, but I am more idealistic than you.

Once you jilted enough times you'll be a pragmatist too.

al Furqaan
August 12, 2018, 10:42 PM
Just to be sure, you're talking about this guy right?

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/QjWTC2_hE_I?start=62" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Just remember correlation does not imply causation. A lot of factors lead to our 3 test wins, captaincy wasn't one of them.

Honestly, this video has been widely debunked as using a grief actor who somewhat resembles Mushfiq in order to tarnish his reputation. And he doesn't even look that much like the @realMushfiqurRahim.

If you notice the guy in that video has a hairline thats receded far less than Mushy. Its not biologically possible for a hairline to recede that quickly unless Mushfiq's telomeres are shortening in an accelerated manner (ie it defies the known laws of senescence).

Yankees
August 13, 2018, 01:19 AM
Honestly, this video has been widely debunked as using a grief actor who somewhat resembles Mushfiq in order to tarnish his reputation. And he doesn't even look that much like the @realMushfiqurRahim.

If you notice the guy in that video has a hairline thats receded far less than Mushy. Its not biologically possible for a hairline to recede that quickly unless Mushfiq's telomeres are shortening in an accelerated manner (ie it defies the known laws of senescence).

well I'm convinced. I stand corrected. What a relief that is not our Mushy. Happiness is this then.

Tigers_eye
August 13, 2018, 09:45 AM
well I'm convinced. I stand corrected. What a relief that is not our Mushy. Happiness is this then.
Can I nominate this post for post of the year?



BC please listen to me for once. :)

Tigers_eye
August 13, 2018, 09:50 AM
There's no evidence that it has a negative effect on the team. In fact the empirical data would suggest otherwise.

I don't think anyone could name an example of a leader who's bragging and self-centeredness could have deleterious effects on the wider work environment or culture. Its just a figment of the imagination in my opinion. If a leader isn't going to brag, then there isn't anyone who can. ...
You meant to tell me for 9 years while I taught "LEADERSHIP" management courses, I had it all wrong? The Text books need new authors with new theories on leadership? This is "Trump" leadership or what?


Bragging (on yourself) don't make you a leader. It is the first stepping stone of a future failure.

al Furqaan
August 13, 2018, 06:57 PM
You meant to tell me for 9 years while I taught "LEADERSHIP" management courses, I had it all wrong? The Text books need new authors with new theories on leadership? This is "Trump" leadership or what?


Bragging (on yourself) don't make you a leader. It is the first stepping stone of a future failure.

Trump is too humble and unassuming and thats why his Presidency and administration are in tatters. In fact, if Trump were to adopt Mushfiq's self-aggrandizing he would have more success. Trump defers to decorum and decency a little too much for my liking. He should be more proactive on social media, even if it means ruffling a few feathers. Just like Mushy. Did Mushy care what people thought when posted that pic on instagram? Nope, he did anyways.

Be bold, "pee into the wind" as the great Joey Tribbiani once said.

Tigers_eye
August 14, 2018, 09:13 AM
Trump is too humble and unassuming and thats why his Presidency and administration are in tatters. In fact, if Trump were to adopt Mushfiq's self-aggrandizing he would have more success. Trump defers to decorum and decency a little too much for my liking. He should be more proactive on social media, even if it means ruffling a few feathers. Just like Mushy. Did Mushy care what people thought when posted that pic on instagram? Nope, he did anyways.

Be bold, "pee into the wind" as the great Joey Tribbiani once said. :notworthy: Do not forget me once you get to the peak. I will humbly follow your lead. Afterall, without dedicated followers what does the leader amount to? :big_hug: I concede.

al Furqaan
August 16, 2018, 01:07 PM
While the majority of the national cricketers are on post-series and Eid-ul-Adha holiday, Tamim is busy practising in the nets. For the last two days, wicketkeeper-batsman Mushfiqur Rahim was also found working on fitness at the home of cricket.

https://www.dhakatribune.com/sport/cricket/2018/08/16/tamim-credits-mashrafe-for-turnaround-against-windies

Shakib gets a pass this time as he's performing Hajj, but these 2 guys are busy training just after a tour. Total professionals! This is the kind of role model we need for the younger guys.

I hope both of these guys last until the 2027 WC in both Tests and ODIs.

aklemalp
August 16, 2018, 01:47 PM
The home of cricket? Lords?

Rinathq
August 16, 2018, 02:59 PM
The home of cricket? Lords?

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