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SportingBD
August 29, 2018, 01:20 PM
La ilaha illallah (There is No God But Allah).

Abu Huraira (may Allah be pleased with him) reported that the Prophet (salAllahu alayhi wasalam) said:"When a servant of Allah utters the words la ilaha illallah (there is no God except Allah) sincerely, the doors of heaven open up for these words until they reach the Throne of Allah, so long as its utterer keeps away from the major sins.” [at-Tirmidhi]

Abu Huraira (may Allah be pleased with him) reported that the Prophet (salAllahu alayhi wasalam) said, "Renew your faith." "How can we renew our faith?" they asked. The Prophet (salAllahu alayhi wasalam) replied: "Say always: la ilaha illallah." [Ahmad]

SubhanAllah wa biHamdihi (Glory be to Allah and Praise Him).

Whoever says (the above) a hundred times during the day, his sins are wiped away, even if they are like the foam of the sea.[Sahih al-Bukhari; #7:168, Sahih Muslim; #4:2071]

Abu Dharr reported that the Prophet (salAllahu alayhi wasalam) said, "Shall I tell you the words that Allah loves the most?" I said: "Yes, tell me, O Messenger of Allah." He (peace and blessings be upon him) said: "The words dearest to Allah are: subhanAllah wa bihamdihi”. [ Muslim and at-Tirmidhi.]

SubhanAllahi wa biHamdihi, Subhan-Allahi 'l-`adheem (Glory be to Allah, and Praise, Glory be to Allah, the Supreme)

Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) said: "Two words are light on the tongue, weigh heavily in the balance, they are loved by the Most Merciful One." [Sahih al-Bukhari; #7:67, Sahih Muslim, #4:2071]

SubhanAllah (Glory be to Allah)

Whoever recites [the above] one Hundred times, a thousand good deeds are recorded for him or a thousand bad deeds are wiped away.[Sahih Muslim; #4:2073.]

Please feel free to add more. :up:

Tigers_eye
August 29, 2018, 02:54 PM
My understanding is: It only benefits a person if he/she knows why/what it means, believes in it, is conscious of it, and the person don't contradicts his/her action with what he/she is saying. The "AND" word dictates the above sentence. Meaning all things must be fulfilled to get the actual reward. (Allahu Alim)

Rabbi yassir wala tu'assir wa tammim bil khair
(O Allah! Make it easy, and do not make it difficult. O Allah! Make it end well)
Allahumma Innaka `Afuwwun Tuhibbul `Afwa fa`fu `Annee

("O Allah, You are pardoning and You love to pardon, so pardon me.") Ending with "Anna" would mean "us" instead of "me"



This is one of my favorite one: 21:83 (Partial) Prophet Aiub (A) made this dua when he was sick.

Inni Massaniyad durruh wa anta ar Rahmanur Rahimin"Indeed, adversity has touched me, and you are the Most Merciful of the merciful."

BengaliPagol
August 29, 2018, 10:53 PM
Your tongue does thikr. Do enough and your heart will also do thikr. Do enough and your heart is doing thikr in your sleep as well. In shaa Allah we reach that state

Tigers_eye
September 10, 2018, 11:26 AM
Astaghfirullah is the act of seeking forgiveness from Allah.

Meaning "I seek forgiveness from Allah".

SportingBD
September 10, 2018, 05:00 PM
Curious to know.

If our destiny is already written, why is there a need to pray?

Let’s assume you pray for X, Y, Z in your life. And you get none.

But you prayed for those. If you had known you wouldn’t have got it would you pray?

I mean to say if the outcome would have been same what is the need to pray for XYZ?

BengaliPagol
September 11, 2018, 05:36 AM
Curious to know.

If our destiny is already written, why is there a need to pray?

Let’s assume you pray for X, Y, Z in your life. And you get none.

But you prayed for those. If you had known you wouldn’t have got it would you pray?

I mean to say if the outcome would have been same what is the need to pray for XYZ?

It boils down to intention and will. Pre-destination can be described using an example of a highway. Everyone can drive a car on the highway and reach the same destination, but the free will element is how sensibly we drive along that highway.

Are you being a reckless driver? Or do you abide by the road rules?

The highway is the path that Allah has laid out, and the driving part is our own free will/intention part.

ToBeFair
September 11, 2018, 05:52 AM
Curious to know.

If our destiny is already written, why is there a need to pray?

Let’s assume you pray for X, Y, Z in your life. And you get none.

But you prayed for those. If you had known you wouldn’t have got it would you pray?
I mean to say if the outcome would have been same what is the need to pray for XYZ?

When you pray to God, does He respond? The answer is yes. He responds to every prayer. The Islamic belief is, God responds to your prayer in three different ways:

1. He gives you what you have asked for
2. He does not give you what you have asked for, but removes equivalent amount of harm from your life
3. He does not give you 1 and 2, but He will reciprocate you on the Day of Judgment

Is everything pre-destined? The answer is Yes. Whatever God has destined for you, will never miss you, and whatever God has not written for you, will never reach you.

Now the question comes, what is point of prayer or asking from God?

The question is similar to: If God is self sufficient, why do we need to worship Him?

The reason you need to pray to and ask from God is because you do not know what is destined for you. Thus, you show your need to God and God loves when we show our need to Him.

He is the only entity that loves to be asked for things and hates when He is not asked for, whereas His creation, conversely, gets irritated whenever asked for any favor.

Thus, have the best intention and though about God and ask from Him. Rest assured, He will give you what is best for you at the right time, and do not get tricked into philosophical discussion about the need for making prayer and its relationship with predestination.

SportingBD
September 11, 2018, 08:28 AM
When you pray to God, does He respond? The answer is yes. He responds to every prayer. The Islamic belief is, God responds to your prayer in three different ways:

1. He gives you what you have asked for
2. He does not give you what you have asked for, but removes equivalent amount of harm from your life
3. He does not give you 1 and 2, but He will reciprocate you on the Day of Judgment

Is everything pre-destined? The answer is Yes. Whatever God has destined for you, will never miss you, and whatever God has not written for you, will never reach you.

Now the question comes, what is point of prayer or asking from God?

The question is similar to: If God is self sufficient, why do we need to worship Him?

The reason you need to pray to and ask from God is because you do not know what is destined for you. Thus, you show your need to God and God loves when we show our need to Him.

He is the only entity that loves to be asked for things and hates when He is not asked for, whereas His creation, conversely, gets irritated whenever asked for any favor.

Thus, have the best intention and though about God and ask from Him. Rest assured, He will give you what is best for you at the right time, and do not get tricked into philosophical discussion about the need for making prayer and its relationship with predestination.

What’s the difference between someone who doesn’t ask but gets, and someone who does but doesn’t get? What’s the significance in that?

You ask God to give knowing that his the one who holds power to make even the imperfect, the perfect? You don’t ask just for the sake of asking.

By human nature what is within our capacity we don’t ask, what is beyond our capacity we ask him for, since he has all the powers to perfect that.

There are many who don’t worship God at all nor ask for anything, but they get.. what they want.. even though someone who prays day/night doesn’t get?

Curious to know how this works?

SportingBD
September 11, 2018, 08:34 AM
It boils down to intention and will. Pre-destination can be described using an example of a highway. Everyone can drive a car on the highway and reach the same destination, but the free will element is how sensibly we drive along that highway.

Are you being a reckless driver? Or do you abide by the road rules?

The highway is the path that Allah has laid out, and the driving part is our own free will/intention part.

What I don’t understand is that there are people like Trump, Putin, Assad, Kim etc who have done terrible things, yet they have been gifted by God with power? If you believe in pre-destination then you would agree that it is God who gave them power?

But on the other hand you have people in the mosque praying, trying to live a good life.. and what is the gift from God? Often the answer is oh you will be rewarded in the next life.. I mean? What?

Zeeshan
September 11, 2018, 08:35 AM
Lol how does a thread about dhikr suddenly turn to Trump? Haha

adamnsu
September 11, 2018, 10:07 AM
Lol how does a thread about dhikr suddenly turn to Trump? Haha

I want to ask the same question, without the chuckle at the end

Zeeshan
September 11, 2018, 10:17 AM
Well to be transparent the chuckle wasn't a "haha another Muslim thread going down boiiii" chuckle per se, rather more of a "damn-cant-keep-the-man-out-hein?" chuckle.

To clarify.

zman
September 12, 2018, 10:39 AM
Lol how does a thread about dhikr suddenly turn to Trump? Haha
:floor: almost impossible to keep him out of any discussion these days

zman
September 12, 2018, 10:48 AM
Curious to know.

If our destiny is already written, why is there a need to pray?

Let’s assume you pray for X, Y, Z in your life. And you get none.

But you prayed for those. If you had known you wouldn’t have got it would you pray?

I mean to say if the outcome would have been same what is the need to pray for XYZ?
BP and ToBeFair have provided insightful perspectives. I'll add another one. This may not be a direct answer to your question but sometimes it's more important to figure it out for oneself after taking different perspectives into account. Imagine the following scenarios:

1) If you put a toy in front of a toddler, you can pretty much predict what the kid will do next... crawl towards it
2) In 2016 US elections a data analytics company, known to the whole world by now, helped Trump win the elections. They were able to build accurate psychological profiles of voters based on a few tweets and likes on facebook. They were not only able to read their minds but also predict future behavior quite accurately. They took it a step further when they used their knowledge base to manufacture consent of voters by using a technique called psychometrics, which is essentially individualized advertising based on behavioral microtargetting.
3) Fast forward a few years and the kind of research going on in the field of AI will blow anyone's mind. One of the projects Amazon is working on will provide them ability to read our mind as we read content on Kindle. Kindle will monitor the pause between sentences and paragraphs and read our facial expressions and archive the data on amazon servers. This data will be used to create analytical models that will predict with a high degree of certainty how a person will behave in specific scenarios that they have not even faced yet.

If one believes in a deity who controls time, set into motion the process of creation and is responsible for creation of all things, is it really that far fetched to think he possesses knowledge of the past and the future?

zman
September 12, 2018, 11:09 AM
What I don’t understand is that there are people like Trump, Putin, Assad, Kim etc who have done terrible things, yet they have been gifted by God with power? If you believe in pre-destination then you would agree that it is God who gave them power?

But on the other hand you have people in the mosque praying, trying to live a good life.. and what is the gift from God? Often the answer is oh you will be rewarded in the next life.. I mean? What?

Your post captures the uncertainty in understanding of the definition of reward which is very common. From a religious perspective it helps to understand and appreciate the meaning of reward when we reflect on the meaning of life and death. Few years back I remember reading about Uday Hussein, son of Saddam, his lavish lifestyle and stories about his savagery. People that showed any form of dissent or disobeyed him directly would be thrown into the cages of his vicious pet tigers. He enjoyed watching them get devoured. Uday suffered an ignominious death when he was brutally killed by American soldiers. Seldom do we reflect upon death which is the biggest equalizer.

Here's something worth trying. Next time you make a nice windfall, treat yourself to something nice. It could be a nice house, car, laptop or whatever works for you. At the same time do something nice for someone less fortunate than you, an act of mercy such as sponsoring an orphan, or helping a kid who is battling cancer, etc. See which one gives you more satisfaction or REWARD.

Zeeshan
September 12, 2018, 05:43 PM
If one believes in a deity who controls time, set into motion the process of creation and is responsible for creation of all things, is it really that far fetched to think he possesses knowledge of the past and the future?

As Firas Zahabi (GSP's trainer) and a practicing Muslim mentioned to Joe Rogan:


God took the ultimate break.

If you view the universe in the same Laplacian model of atomic or particle based billiard board model, when the whole s broke loose with creation of space-time and Planck time and what not during 'Bang, then although from our puny, human perspective everything seems like a mess, but underlying the cosmic fabric there is Supreme Order and Beauty.

And I do adhere to that. I mean I don't necessarily think there is billiard board model, but however, it IS true, imo, that God wanted to test how bad humans can f*** up and rise. :) :)

ToBeFair
September 13, 2018, 01:32 AM
It is truly baffling that someone who has opened a purely spiritual thread about the benefits of doing dhikr (remembrance of God), presumably believing in the ritual of dhikr and its benefits, suddenly makes a complete U-turn and starts posting tonmoy like questions, ranging from the point of asking from God to God’s distribution of His provision among His creation and His predestination.

I have given the benefit of doubt and responded, but know that if you truly want to learn your religion, you have put some effort and a random answer at a random forum will not satisfy you. Even to find the truth, you have to work and search for it. Read books, go to a seminary, sit with scholars, watch lectures on YouTube – do something!


What’s the difference between someone who doesn’t ask but gets, and someone who does but doesn’t get? What’s the significance in that?



First, note that whatever God has decreed for you, will surely reach you, and whatever God has not decreed for you, will never reach you.

The difference between someone who asks from God and someone who does not ask from God is the essential difference between a Muslim and a non-Muslim. The purpose behind the creation of humans and jinns was the worship of God, as God has stated in the Quran, and the essence of worshipping God is to ask from Him and seek His help. In many verses in the Quran, God has clubbed together or even equalized calling upon Him with worshipping Him. In the very opening surah, Surah Al-Fatiha, we say:

It is You we worship and You we ask for help [The Noble Quran 1:5]

As you see, in the very opening chapter, God is teaching us that worshipping Him and seeking help from Him or calling upon Him goes hand in hand.

In Surah Ghafir, God said:

And your Lord says, "Call upon Me; I will respond to you." Indeed, those who disdain My worship will enter Hell [rendered] contemptible. [The Noble Quran 40:60]

In the first part of the verse, God instructed us to call upon Him. In the second part, He used the term worship – here God has equalized calling upon Him with worship. Through asking from God, you show your servitude and humility to Him, and by not asking from Him, you show your arrogance to Him, even though you are always dependent on Him.

As for the question of what is the point of asking if everything is pre-destined, do not venture into this philosophical point. The point is, God knows the predestination and you do not know. The test on your part is to have the best thought about God, have good expectation of Him, have true reliance upon Him (tawakkul), and call upon Him, with patience, humility, and persistence. Thus, do your part, show your servitude, and leave the rest to God. If you do your part, surely, God will do His and respond in a manner He sees fit.

You ask God to give knowing that his the one who holds power to make even the imperfect, the perfect? You don’t ask just for the sake of asking.You ask because creation is always in need of God. God definitely holds the power to perfect the imperfect, but no one can force God to do anything. We ask, but that does not mean God is obliged to respond exactly how we want the response to come. As said before, God responds to every call of His slave, but the response comes in one of three different ways (1) He gives what you ask Him – either immediately or at a delayed time (2) He does not give you what you want but removes an equivalent amount of harm from your life (3) He does not give (1) and (2) but rather reciprocates you on the Day of Judgement.

By human nature what is within our capacity we don’t ask, what is beyond our capacity we ask him for, since he has all the powers to perfect that.This is a wrong assertion and a non-Islamic worldview. Nothing is within our capacity, even if we think so. Every blessing in our life is from God and not our own achievement. Have you not seen that two patients with same the disease take the same medicine, yet one is cured and the other dies? Have you not seen two human beings with same brain, same physical features, and same socio-economic background, and yet one turns out to be a brilliant scientist and the other fails to go beyond high school? Thus, a Muslim seeks God’s help first and foremost for everything, and the Prophet (S) instructed to seek God’s help even before mending our shoe laces.

There are many who don’t worship God at all nor ask for anything, but they get.. what they want.. even though someone who prays day/night doesn’t get? God’s distribution of provision on this world is not related to how much someone worships Him. Provision includes time, money, health, wealth, power, and each and every blessing. He distributes His provision as He sees fit. He gives as He wills, and He withholds as He will. He has the complete knowledge of everything and He is the most just, and your heart must find solace from this fact, if you are a Muslim. Questioning God’s distribution of provision or being unhappy about it equals to questioning the justice of God and His predestination, and it is a sin of the heart that must be treated with proper knowledge.

Also the difference in distribution of provision is part of the test of living in this world. God said:

And do not extend your eyes toward that by which We have given enjoyment to [some] categories of them, [its being but] the splendor of worldly life by which We test them. And the provision of your Lord is better and more enduring. [The Noble Quran 20:131]

And it is He who has made you successors upon the earth and has raised some of you above others in degrees [of rank] that He may test you through what He has given you. Indeed, your Lord is swift in penalty; but indeed, He is Forgiving and Merciful. [The Noble Quran 6:165]

You will surely be tested in your possessions and in yourselves. [The Noble Quran 2:186]


What I don’t understand is that there are people like Trump, Putin, Assad, Kim etc who have done terrible things, yet they have been gifted by God with power? If you believe in pre-destination then you would agree that it is God who gave them power?

But on the other hand you have people in the mosque praying, trying to live a good life.. and what is the gift from God? Often the answer is oh you will be rewarded in the next life.. I mean? What?

Curious to know how this works?
Definitely, God predestined power (as part of His provision) for them, and thus Putin and Trump are in power today.

If you are too impatient and unwilling to accept the premise of being rewarded or punished in the hereafter, you need have a deep look inside and think why you are a Muslim in the first place. A fundamental pillar of Islamic faith (eeman) is believing in Paradise and Hell. It is our belief that this world is not everything. This world is only a place of test – and the real abode is the next – and if you are too impatient to accept this fact – then it is your own personal problem – and it will not change the reality – this world will never become paradise.

Having said so, many reasons can be quoted from Islamic sources explaining why God gives abundantly to non-believing servants of Him. Few are:

1. God is Ar-Rahman – the most merciful. As part of of His mercy, He gives everyone of His creation.

2. God is Ar-Rabb – the sustainer. He sustains everyone and everything of His creation.

3. An attribute of God is appreciation. In fact, one of his names is Ash-Shakur (the appreciating one). He appreciates good acts from everyone, including his non-believing slaves, and He reciprocates. For non-believers, rewards come in this world, and there will be nothing in the hereafter. However, for the believers, they are rewarded in this world, but their primary reward will be in the hereafter. It is possible that God has rewarded Trump and Putin with power as part of His appreciation of whatever good deeds they have done (again, we are talking about a possibility, and not in certainty, because no one can speak about God with certainty, unless you are a prophet receiving revelation).

4. This world has no value to God. Thus, the power they are enjoying, even though is significant to your eyes, is totally insignificant to God. Sahl bin Sa'd narrated that the Messenger of God (S) said:

“If the world to Allah were equal in worth to a mosquito's wing, then He would not have allowed any disbeliever to have sip of water from it.” [Jaami Tirmidhi]

Zeeshan
September 13, 2018, 01:59 AM
I am just happy I got spared by ToBeFair bhai. :) :)

adamnsu
September 13, 2018, 02:04 AM
TobeFair makes a good point. This thread is starting to be counterproductive despite its main intentions (not the first time though 😁).

Best for all to go back to giving positive input.

Zeeshan
September 13, 2018, 02:04 AM
Just curious ToBeFair, do you have any fantastic reference to all the attributes of Allah(SWT)? I am starting to like your thoughts.

Zeeshan
September 13, 2018, 02:06 AM
And your Lord says, "Call upon Me; I will respond to you." Indeed, those who disdain My worship will enter Hell [rendered] contemptible. [The Noble Quran 40:60]

I do not intend to make mockery out of this, but is this similar to Law of Attraction?

Zeeshan
September 13, 2018, 02:07 AM
It is truly baffling that someone who has opened a purely spiritual thread about the benefits of doing dhikr (remembrance of God), presumably believing in the ritual of dhikr and its benefits, suddenly makes a complete U-turn and starts posting tonmoy like questions, ranging from the point of asking from God to God’s distribution of His provision among His creation and His predestination.

I have given the benefit of doubt and responded, but know that if you truly want to learn your religion, you have put some effort and a random answer at a random forum will not satisfy you. Even to find the truth, you have to work and search for it. Read books, go to a seminary, sit with scholars, watch lectures on YouTube – do something!

First, note that whatever God has decreed for you, will surely reach you, and whatever God has not decreed for you, will never reach you.

The difference between someone who asks from God and someone who does not ask from God is the essential difference between a Muslim and a non-Muslim. The purpose behind the creation of humans and jinns was the worship of God, as God has stated in the Quran, and the essence of worshipping God is to ask from Him and seek His help. In many verses in the Quran, God has clubbed together or even equalized calling upon Him with worshipping Him. In the very opening surah, Surah Al-Fatiha, we say:

It is You we worship and You we ask for help [The Noble Quran 1:5]

As you see, in the very opening chapter, God is teaching us that worshipping Him and seeking help from Him or calling upon Him goes hand in hand.

In Surah Ghafir, God said:

And your Lord says, "Call upon Me; I will respond to you." Indeed, those who disdain My worship will enter Hell [rendered] contemptible. [The Noble Quran 40:60]

In the first part of the verse, God instructed us to call upon Him. In the second part, He used the term worship – here God has equalized calling upon Him with worship. Through asking from God, you show your servitude and humility to Him, and by not asking from Him, you show your arrogance to Him, even though you are always dependent on Him.

As for the question of what is the point of asking if everything is pre-destined, do not venture into this philosophical point. The point is, God knows the predestination and you do not know. The test on your part is to have the best thought about God, have good expectation of Him, have true reliance upon Him (tawakkul), and call upon Him, with patience, humility, and persistence. Thus, do your part, show your servitude, and leave the rest to God. If you do your part, surely, God will do His and respond in a manner He sees fit.

You ask because creation is always in need of God. God definitely holds the power to perfect the imperfect, but no one can force God to do anything. We ask, but that does not mean God is obliged to respond exactly how we want the response to come. As said before, God responds to every call of His slave, but the response comes in one of three different ways (1) He gives what you ask Him – either immediately or at a delayed time (2) He does not give you what you want but removes an equivalent amount of harm from your life (3) He does not give (1) and (2) but rather reciprocates you on the Day of Judgement.

This is a wrong assertion and a non-Islamic worldview. Nothing is within our capacity, even if we think so. Every blessing in our life is from God and not our own achievement. Have you not seen that two patients with same the disease take the same medicine, yet one is cured and the other dies? Have you not seen two human beings with same brain, same physical features, and same socio-economic background, and yet one turns out to be a brilliant scientist and the other fails to go beyond high school? Thus, a Muslim seeks God’s help first and foremost for everything, and the Prophet (S) instructed to seek God’s help even before mending our shoe laces.

God’s distribution of provision on this world is not related to how much someone worships Him. Provision includes time, money, health, wealth, power, and each and every blessing. He distributes His provision as He sees fit. He gives as He wills, and He withholds as He will. He has the complete knowledge of everything and He is the most just, and your heart must find solace from this fact, if you are a Muslim. Questioning God’s distribution of provision or being unhappy about it equals to questioning the justice of God and His predestination, and it is a sin of the heart that must be treated with proper knowledge.

Also the difference in distribution of provision is part of the test of living in this world. God said:

And do not extend your eyes toward that by which We have given enjoyment to [some] categories of them, [its being but] the splendor of worldly life by which We test them. And the provision of your Lord is better and more enduring. [The Noble Quran 20:131]

And it is He who has made you successors upon the earth and has raised some of you above others in degrees [of rank] that He may test you through what He has given you. Indeed, your Lord is swift in penalty; but indeed, He is Forgiving and Merciful. [The Noble Quran 6:165]

You will surely be tested in your possessions and in yourselves. [The Noble Quran 2:186]

Definitely, God predestined power (as part of His provision) for them, and thus Putin and Trump are in power today.

If you are too impatient and unwilling to accept the premise of being rewarded or punished in the hereafter, you need have a deep look inside and think why you are a Muslim in the first place. A fundamental pillar of Islamic faith (eeman) is believing in Paradise and Hell. It is our belief that this world is not everything. This world is only a place of test – and the real abode is the next – and if you are too impatient to accept this fact – then it is your own personal problem – and it will not change the reality – this world will never become paradise.

Having said so, many reasons can be quoted from Islamic sources explaining why God gives abundantly to non-believing servants of Him. Few are:

1. God is Ar-Rahman – the most merciful. As part of of His mercy, He gives everyone of His creation.

2. God is Ar-Rabb – the sustainer. He sustains everyone and everything of His creation.

3. An attribute of God is appreciation. In fact, one of his names is Ash-Shakur (the appreciating one). He appreciates good acts from everyone, including his non-believing slaves, and He reciprocates. For non-believers, rewards come in this world, and there will be nothing in the hereafter. However, for the believers, they are rewarded in this world, but their primary reward will be in the hereafter. It is possible that God has rewarded Trump and Putin with power as part of His appreciation of whatever good deeds they have done (again, we are talking about a possibility, and not in certainty, because no one can speak about God with certainty, unless you are a prophet receiving revelation).

4. This world has no value to God. Thus, the power they are enjoying, even though is significant to your eyes, is totally insignificant to God. Sahl bin Sa'd narrated that the Messenger of God (S) said:

“If the world to Allah were equal in worth to a mosquito's wing, then He would not have allowed any disbeliever to have sip of water from it.” [Jaami Tirmidhi]

Have you entertained the thought that YOU could wake up from death one day to find that YOU are God? :) :) :) :up: //that's basically my one liner counter to your tl;dr post. If you can pass it, I will take you in our team of Arnab and Yahoo.

Okay seriously. If not and if you and you do find it offensive and blasphemous, RA-TI-ON-ALLY explain me so why?

Zeeshan
September 13, 2018, 02:11 AM
As for the question of what is the point of asking if everything is pre-destined, do not venture into this philosophical point. The point is, God knows the predestination and you do not know. The test on your part is to have the best thought about God, have good expectation of Him, have true reliance upon Him (tawakkul), and call upon Him, with patience, humility, and persistence. Thus, do your part, show your servitude, and leave the rest to God. If you do your part, surely, God will do His and respond in a manner He sees fit.

The way you wrote it by your tone you sound like YOU are God. :) :) :) :up:

Basically your whole frikkin point is "Boo hoo we are puny little mankind and we cannot even COMPREHEND divine kicks." Aight... aight... so how the ... wait let me get on my Nicolas Cage hystrenix... how the bloody hell do YOU then get to purport that very thought itself stemming from a lack of insecurity, powerlessness and weakness?

Dum di dum.

Nah.

Da da da daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!

So basically it leaves you to riposte with other choice:

"But I am NOT from a place of insecurity, powerlessness and weakness. Those are simply MY interpretations and not God's. Because ipso facto, by virtue of its vicious circle, I am as guilty (if not as dirty) as they come by... when it comes to LOGIC of course." :) :) :up:

So either way you are ... well.

What do you do McClane?
What do you do?

Which pill do you take? *gives acid...nah as in real acid*

And gee, why people question, huh!

Zeeshan
September 13, 2018, 02:18 AM
I for one find it offensive that Islam gets an ex cathedra pass and that as HUMAN BEING I am not allowed to put it on stand simple due to another HUMAN'S objection and ergo...his or her control over me et al for order or anti-chaos or simply per opinion that it is a holy religion and should be left as such as the First Axiom.

That's like me sayin' 'Take entire Alice in Wonderland as First Axiom and derive cosmic, moral and legal code of conduct from it.' And don't question it.

Why?

SportingBD
September 13, 2018, 04:25 AM
It is truly baffling that someone who has opened a purely spiritual thread about the benefits of doing dhikr (remembrance of God), presumably believing in the ritual of dhikr and its benefits, suddenly makes a complete U-turn and starts posting tonmoy like questions, ranging from the point of asking from God to God’s distribution of His provision among His creation and His predestination.

I have given the benefit of doubt and responded, but know that if you truly want to learn your religion, you have put some effort and a random answer at a random forum will not satisfy you. Even to find the truth, you have to work and search for it. Read books, go to a seminary, sit with scholars, watch lectures on YouTube – do something!




First, note that whatever God has decreed for you, will surely reach you, and whatever God has not decreed for you, will never reach you.

The difference between someone who asks from God and someone who does not ask from God is the essential difference between a Muslim and a non-Muslim. The purpose behind the creation of humans and jinns was the worship of God, as God has stated in the Quran, and the essence of worshipping God is to ask from Him and seek His help. In many verses in the Quran, God has clubbed together or even equalized calling upon Him with worshipping Him. In the very opening surah, Surah Al-Fatiha, we say:

It is You we worship and You we ask for help [The Noble Quran 1:5]

As you see, in the very opening chapter, God is teaching us that worshipping Him and seeking help from Him or calling upon Him goes hand in hand.

In Surah Ghafir, God said:

And your Lord says, "Call upon Me; I will respond to you." Indeed, those who disdain My worship will enter Hell [rendered] contemptible. [The Noble Quran 40:60]

In the first part of the verse, God instructed us to call upon Him. In the second part, He used the term worship – here God has equalized calling upon Him with worship. Through asking from God, you show your servitude and humility to Him, and by not asking from Him, you show your arrogance to Him, even though you are always dependent on Him.

As for the question of what is the point of asking if everything is pre-destined, do not venture into this philosophical point. The point is, God knows the predestination and you do not know. The test on your part is to have the best thought about God, have good expectation of Him, have true reliance upon Him (tawakkul), and call upon Him, with patience, humility, and persistence. Thus, do your part, show your servitude, and leave the rest to God. If you do your part, surely, God will do His and respond in a manner He sees fit.

You ask because creation is always in need of God. God definitely holds the power to perfect the imperfect, but no one can force God to do anything. We ask, but that does not mean God is obliged to respond exactly how we want the response to come. As said before, God responds to every call of His slave, but the response comes in one of three different ways (1) He gives what you ask Him – either immediately or at a delayed time (2) He does not give you what you want but removes an equivalent amount of harm from your life (3) He does not give (1) and (2) but rather reciprocates you on the Day of Judgement.

This is a wrong assertion and a non-Islamic worldview. Nothing is within our capacity, even if we think so. Every blessing in our life is from God and not our own achievement. Have you not seen that two patients with same the disease take the same medicine, yet one is cured and the other dies? Have you not seen two human beings with same brain, same physical features, and same socio-economic background, and yet one turns out to be a brilliant scientist and the other fails to go beyond high school? Thus, a Muslim seeks God’s help first and foremost for everything, and the Prophet (S) instructed to seek God’s help even before mending our shoe laces.

God’s distribution of provision on this world is not related to how much someone worships Him. Provision includes time, money, health, wealth, power, and each and every blessing. He distributes His provision as He sees fit. He gives as He wills, and He withholds as He will. He has the complete knowledge of everything and He is the most just, and your heart must find solace from this fact, if you are a Muslim. Questioning God’s distribution of provision or being unhappy about it equals to questioning the justice of God and His predestination, and it is a sin of the heart that must be treated with proper knowledge.

Also the difference in distribution of provision is part of the test of living in this world. God said:

And do not extend your eyes toward that by which We have given enjoyment to [some] categories of them, [its being but] the splendor of worldly life by which We test them. And the provision of your Lord is better and more enduring. [The Noble Quran 20:131]

And it is He who has made you successors upon the earth and has raised some of you above others in degrees [of rank] that He may test you through what He has given you. Indeed, your Lord is swift in penalty; but indeed, He is Forgiving and Merciful. [The Noble Quran 6:165]

You will surely be tested in your possessions and in yourselves. [The Noble Quran 2:186]

Definitely, God predestined power (as part of His provision) for them, and thus Putin and Trump are in power today.

If you are too impatient and unwilling to accept the premise of being rewarded or punished in the hereafter, you need have a deep look inside and think why you are a Muslim in the first place. A fundamental pillar of Islamic faith (eeman) is believing in Paradise and Hell. It is our belief that this world is not everything. This world is only a place of test – and the real abode is the next – and if you are too impatient to accept this fact – then it is your own personal problem – and it will not change the reality – this world will never become paradise.

Having said so, many reasons can be quoted from Islamic sources explaining why God gives abundantly to non-believing servants of Him. Few are:

1. God is Ar-Rahman – the most merciful. As part of of His mercy, He gives everyone of His creation.

2. God is Ar-Rabb – the sustainer. He sustains everyone and everything of His creation.

3. An attribute of God is appreciation. In fact, one of his names is Ash-Shakur (the appreciating one). He appreciates good acts from everyone, including his non-believing slaves, and He reciprocates. For non-believers, rewards come in this world, and there will be nothing in the hereafter. However, for the believers, they are rewarded in this world, but their primary reward will be in the hereafter. It is possible that God has rewarded Trump and Putin with power as part of His appreciation of whatever good deeds they have done (again, we are talking about a possibility, and not in certainty, because no one can speak about God with certainty, unless you are a prophet receiving revelation).

4. This world has no value to God. Thus, the power they are enjoying, even though is significant to your eyes, is totally insignificant to God. Sahl bin Sa'd narrated that the Messenger of God (S) said:

“If the world to Allah were equal in worth to a mosquito's wing, then He would not have allowed any disbeliever to have sip of water from it.” [Jaami Tirmidhi]

Thank you, appreciate the response.

-


None of us decided to be a Muslim, Christian, Jewish, Hindu etc, we did not have this freedom to choose. The family we were born into by default made us Muslim, Christian, Jewish etc. How can we therefore blame the Christians/Jewish etc if they don’t follow their religion? By a majority they drink, gamble, fornicate, etc, this is the environment they are born into, a environment God brings them up into. How can we call them misguided when God himself puts them in such difficult environment? And then you have a Muslim who is born in a environment that is completely different?

From an young age, as a Muslim we practice to pray, avoid drinking, gambling, fornicating, doing sins. Overtime this becomes part of our blood, a constant habit. It’s like our hearts become governed by God.

But if you look at a Christian, Hindu, Jewish or those who don’t believe, they are born into a environment that finds drinking, sleeping with women, gambling, doing all kinds of evil considered sins as normal. This becomes part of their blood, a habit. The hearts become governed by the culture of the environment.

If God already destined this, then how can we call them misguided? For they did not have a choice to be born into X,Y,Z religion?

Zeeshan
September 13, 2018, 07:38 AM
Simple. ^^^

The reason THEY are misguided is because YOU are misguided. The reason why THEY avoid pray, drinks, gambles, fornicates and does sin, is because YOU think they are sinful.

By sanctimoniously assuming that "Let's us a draw a frikkin imaginary line OURSELVES and let US put words into GOD'S mouth - REAL GOD that is- and let US make HIM say that these are EVIL which will by definition create an arbitrary demarcation between US vs THEM. So now not only THEY are different and look different and smell different, but LAMBASTING their actions WE get to now feel good about ourselves that they are different and WE are superior."

See SportingBD, YOU are the real problem.YOU are the devil. The lucifer. Al-Shaytan. YOU create a demarcation in LIFE'S ...no, no not Reality, rather GOD's beautiful baby-green world by VILIFYING every actions that YOU find to be disgusting as such as to be UNIVERSALLY held regardless.

In the beginning there was Nothing.

There was Void. There was no beginning nor end.

But by YOUR thought- your crooked, YOUR sinful devil-may-care thought, YOU created an artificial demarcation - thus dvanda - Good vs Evil - with YOUR artificial willy-nilly labeling of anything or everything YOU find repulsive in this God's Ultimate Venn Diagram to justify YOUR superiority.

God be like "I didn't say s... :neildegressetyson hand throw: YOU punks be putting words in my mouth."

Do check the Story of the Saint vs Sinner out. :) :) :) :up:

http://www.banglacricket.com/alochona/showpost.php?p=2080414&postcount=13

SportingBD
September 13, 2018, 08:09 AM
It is important to understand the humanly created culture and the culture God wants you to live by. Irrespective of what religion you follow, there are common laws or shall we say guideline/principles God has set.

If you look at Islam, Christianity and Judaism. You will find all this have common laws in regards to drinking, gambling, Women’s etc.

Now Islam/Judaism have incorporated many of the religious principles/guideline within the culture.

In regard to Christianity, here you have a difference. The bible wants the people to live one way, the humans live exactly the opposite. Here you have a culture created by humans, in the sense that sins are not seen as sins. Being brought up in a Christian family, you have a high chance that you will go against those set principles/guideline God has set.

My question was, is it not God who decides in which religion, country, etc you are born into? Does he not therefore already decide how you would end up?

tonmoy.dhaka
September 13, 2018, 08:11 AM
suddenly makes a complete U-turn and starts posting tonmoy like questions, ranging from the point of asking from God to God’s distribution of His provision among His creation and His predestination.




What have I done now?
Someone asked a very simple question here " What is the benefit of praying/remembrance if everything is pre-destined" ?

The answer ranged from Donald Trump to AI engines developed by Amazon!! The fact is there is no answer!! You cannot have a cake and eat it too

The question the poster posed is pertinent to this thread. If you guys cannot take criticism than stop creating thread in forums visited by all types of people(every faith or no faith).

Let me tell you my own story
" Whenever my mother lost something, she would pray and tie a knot in her saree. She would usually find the thing she was looking for". On the other hand, when I loose my car keys or wallet I also sing "Scooby dooby doo where are you, we got some work to do now" ... inevitably I find my wallet or car keys... I should open a thread about "Remembrance of Scooby Doo".

I am sure you will come and criticize that "Scooby doo" thread. If I say "It is my faith" , you would laugh at me... Hope u understand where the rest of the world is coming from..

Tigers_eye
September 13, 2018, 08:17 AM
...
Basically your whole frikkin point is "Boo hoo we are puny little mankind and we cannot even COMPREHEND divine kicks." Aight... aight... That is the point. Now ponder.

What can you control and what you own? Can you control your own heart? Lunges? Kidney? Blood vessels? Blood cells? Growth of a cell? Death of a cell? Your DNA? The coding where it specifically mentions which cell will become bones and which will become neurons, or which part will be your heart? That is internal. Lets go to another route. What do you own? Your computer? Your clothing? Your house? Your land? your CHILDREN?

In reality you own nothing. NOTHING. Either those things are to leave you or you will leave them. That is the absolute truth. I had no say what generation i would be born, I had no say through which parents I would come to this earth. Who would be my Grandparents, my kin. Either I will go first or my children that I love the most will go before me. I don't own them nor I can control their or my fate.

Now tell me, if one can't control anything that he thinks he can, if one don't own anything but just taking care of them for a limited time, he or she puny or strong? Ponder (not to be confused by Samantha Ponder) :lol:.

ToBeFair
September 13, 2018, 11:10 AM
What have I done now?
Someone asked a very simple question here " What is the benefit of praying/remembrance if everything is pre-destined" ?

The answer ranged from Donald Trump to AI engines developed by Amazon!! The fact is there is no answer!! You cannot have a cake and eat it too

The question the poster posed is pertinent to this thread. If you guys cannot take criticism than stop creating thread in forums visited by all types of people(every faith or no faith).

Let me tell you my own story
" Whenever my mother lost something, she would pray and tie a knot in her saree. She would usually find the thing she was looking for". On the other hand, when I loose my car keys or wallet I also sing "Scooby dooby doo where are you, we got some work to do now" ... inevitably I find my wallet or car keys... I should open a thread about "Remembrance of Scooby Doo".

I am sure you will come and criticize that "Scooby doo" thread. If I say "It is my faith" , you would laugh at me... Hope u understand where the rest of the world is coming from..


Open a scooby doo thread if you want to, but the difference is, if you were to find yourself in a crashing plane, you would not be singing Scooby Doo. Even you would scream out, "O Lord, save me!" :D

One World
September 13, 2018, 11:31 AM
Thank you, appreciate the response.

-


None of us decided to be a Muslim, Christian, Jewish, Hindu etc, we did not have this freedom to choose. The family we were born into by default made us Muslim, Christian, Jewish etc. How can we therefore blame the Christians/Jewish etc if they don’t follow their religion? By a majority they drink, gamble, fornicate, etc, this is the environment they are born into, a environment God brings them up into. How can we call them misguided when God himself puts them in such difficult environment? And then you have a Muslim who is born in a environment that is completely different?

From an young age, as a Muslim we practice to pray, avoid drinking, gambling, fornicating, doing sins. Overtime this becomes part of our blood, a constant habit. It’s like our hearts become governed by God.

But if you look at a Christian, Hindu, Jewish or those who don’t believe, they are born into a environment that finds drinking, sleeping with women, gambling, doing all kinds of evil considered sins as normal. This becomes part of their blood, a habit. The hearts become governed by the culture of the environment.

If God already destined this, then how can we call them misguided? For they did not have a choice to be born into X,Y,Z religion?

This is a direct attack to believers of other faith and I feel pity for the poster. Very poor knowledge about different communities and a forced attempt to create stereotype. Reality is very sour dude. Look at Middle Eastern countries. Compare with a developed country. :facepalm: :down:

When you look, make sure you are not wearing any colored glasses of prejudice.

One World
September 13, 2018, 11:33 AM
In some popular schools, such prayer what the thread about is strictly prohibited.

tonmoy.dhaka
September 13, 2018, 11:41 AM
Open a scooby doo thread if you want to, but the difference is, if you were to find yourself in a crashing plane, you would not be singing Scooby Doo. Even you would scream out, "O Lord, save me!" :D

I know you are asking it jokingly, but I will answer it seriously.

How are you so sure what I am going to say in the event of a plane crash with myself in it?
When did God ever stop a plane from crashing?

Few days back, a bunch of thai kids got stuck in a cave with no way out!! It was impossible to locate them. A bunch of cave divers decided to come from across the world (all murtads) and risked their own lives to locate and finally rescue the kids. A rescuer died during the ordeal and the rescue attempt was made more dangerous by the incessant rain from God!!

If God does exist, my plane is about to crash and God grant me one wish, my prayer to God will be that he stops another holey artisan and no one else is killed in his name.

Plane crash usually makes plane safer for future generation through engineering improvement, so my death will serve a purpose.

SportingBD
September 13, 2018, 12:02 PM
This is a direct attack to believers of other faith and I feel pity for the poster. Very poor knowledge about different communities and a forced attempt to create stereotype. Reality is very sour dude. Look at Middle Eastern countries. Compare with a developed country. :facepalm: :down:

When you look, make sure you are not wearing any colored glasses of prejudice.

What direct attack are you referring too?
I live here in UK and work with Europeans etc that come from a certain religion.
Most of my friends are Christians, and they are open about their religion.

Not sure how this suddenly turned into attacking other faiths?
Even Christian themselves will say what I have said, if it’s true or not.

Zeeshan
September 13, 2018, 12:07 PM
I like how tonmoy gets offended and suddenly decides to join in the party. lol :) :facepalm: ............. :up:

Zeeshan
September 13, 2018, 12:08 PM
Frankly with cricket approaching, I feel I might've gone overboard. And I sincerely apologize for making my point crassly. A skillful master is she who wins without winning.

Again sorry!

As I said I have huge admiration for TBF's intellect and I dunno if Sporting contacted me on FB long time ago, but whoever that person who tried to convert me via DM (It goes down huh?) conducted himself with nothing but grace, a gent and decorum. And I respect that.

tonmoy.dhaka
September 13, 2018, 12:13 PM
I like how tonmoy gets offended and suddenly decided to join in the party. lol :) :facepalm: :up:

hahaha!!
I am really ashamed of myself to be honest because I did not keep my word.. That being said I will TRY not to participate much further to this discussion ...

Zeeshan
September 13, 2018, 12:13 PM
That is the point. Now ponder.

What can you control and what you own? Can you control your own heart? Lunges? Kidney? Blood vessels? Blood cells? Growth of a cell? Death of a cell? Your DNA? The coding where it specifically mentions which cell will become bones and which will become neurons, or which part will be your heart? That is internal. Lets go to another route. What do you own? Your computer? Your clothing? Your house? Your land? your CHILDREN?

In reality you own nothing. NOTHING. Either those things are to leave you or you will leave them. That is the absolute truth. I had no say what generation i would be born, I had no say through which parents I would come to this earth. Who would be my Grandparents, my kin. Either I will go first or my children that I love the most will go before me. I don't own them nor I can control their or my fate.

Now tell me, if one can't control anything that he thinks he can, if one don't own anything but just taking care of them for a limited time, he or she puny or strong? Ponder (not to be confused by Samantha Ponder) :lol:.

When I was walking home from smoking a blunt, I was wondering if I went too hard on them. But then I thought of you. How you are extremely faithful yet never overly advertise it, nor force nor convert or at least for the most part not judge....and neither compel anyone to change profile picture willy-nilly. That's hot. As Paris Hilton would triumph.

Actually you do. But I ignore you; :) .

Zeeshan
September 13, 2018, 12:22 PM
hahaha!!
I am really ashamed of myself to be honest because I did not keep my word.. That being said I will TRY not to participate much further to this discussion ...

Here. *hands the eGlock pulling aside the eBallista*

Hurl some more. Eyy....eyyy......look at my eyes. Look at me..yo :snaps finger:

LOOK AT ME.

You can do it. Aight? *pats/taps shoulder gently with left*

*hands the weapon again holding it sideways*

Here you go. Hold it man. Hold it FIRM. Higher.... there.

That's how you hold it. There. Yeah. Hold it like a man. There you go. Gangsta.

Now... now...

....now hurl. Hurl, kid. Let it unload bruh. All the insults, mud, bile and hate you can hurl. Make them punches sting. Look at my eyez killah.

Screw that. Take the 'ballista.

Pull that lever.

Zeeshan
September 13, 2018, 12:34 PM
I feel like Socrates corrupting the youth. :)

Zeeshan
September 13, 2018, 12:39 PM
Open a scooby doo thread if you want to, but the difference is, if you were to find yourself in a crashing plane, you would not be singing Scooby Doo. Even you would scream out, "O Lord, save me!" :D

I must say our man ToBeFair went hard there. That's real talk right there. Ay-men brother. Amen.

Not to tout my sanity and sanctity, even I no longer follow Islam, due to my upbringing -and I am FULLY cognizant of it that it is merely the program that repeats- I still say "shukor" or "ask Allah for help and guidance" in dire circumstances and stress.

So he gotchu there brother. Brother Tonmoy. You gotta give that to him and take the L. :)

Edit: Thing I learned about appreciating TBF's post is that you have to let logic take the back seat and let HEART do the speaking/thinking/analyzing. There are some deep truths in those.

ToBeFair
September 13, 2018, 12:45 PM
I know you are asking it jokingly, but I will answer it seriously.

How are you so sure what I am going to say in the event of a plane crash with myself in it?
When did God ever stop a plane from crashing?

Few days back, a bunch of thai kids got stuck in a cave with no way out!! It was impossible to locate them. A bunch of cave divers decided to come from across the world (all murtads) and risked their own lives to locate and finally rescue the kids. A rescuer died during the ordeal and the rescue attempt was made more dangerous by the incessant rain from God!!

If God does exist, my plane is about to crash and God grant me one wish, my prayer to God will be that he stops another holey artisan and no one else is killed in his name.

Plane crash usually makes plane safer for future generation through engineering improvement, so my death will serve a purpose.

This is an expected reply.

If God wants, He can save a crashing plane miraculously, but God has subjected His creation to a fixed, pre-determined set of laws of cause and effect, and thus, a crashing plane must crash. The point was - on a crashing plane or in a situation of COMPLETE helplessness, every human soul, irrespective of verbal pronouncement, cries out to a higher power for salvation. And this is one of the proofs of God's existence. In a dire situation, all pride melts and the inner inclination to submit to God manifests naturally:

It is He who enables you to travel on land and sea until, when you are in ships and they sail with them by a good wind and they rejoice therein, there comes a storm wind and the waves come upon them from everywhere and they assume that they are surrounded, supplicating Allah, sincere to Him in religion, "If You should save us from this, we will surely be among the thankful." But when He saves them, at once they commit injustice upon the earth without right. O mankind, your injustice is only against yourselves, [being merely] the enjoyment of worldly life. Then to Us is your return, and We will inform you of what you used to do. [The Noble Quran 10:22-23]

Thus the call of Islam is - return to God and submit to Him willfully and consciously, when you are still healthy and safe and able, before your are snatched by God's power and rendered completely helpless:

Respond to your Lord before a Day comes from Allah of which there is no repelling. No refuge will you have that day, nor for you will there be any denial. But if they turn away - then We have not sent you, [O Muhammad], over them as a guardian; upon you is only [the duty of] notification. And indeed, when We let man taste mercy from us, he rejoices in it; but if evil afflicts him for what his hands have put forth, then indeed, man is ungrateful. [The Noble Quran 42: 48-49]

BTW, if a plane crashes, scientists can benefit from it because of God setting this universe upon a fixed set of physical laws, and not because of anyone's sacrifice or death.

Zeeshan
September 13, 2018, 01:02 PM
acha ekhane plen kresh niye ashar to kono dorkar nye... emnite amader forum blacklisted :) :)

Congratulations SportingBD. Another hit thread! Hit thread y'all! Hit thread!! Left my ratings as good faith. Pay me back in due time. :)

Zeeshan
September 13, 2018, 01:13 PM
Your post captures the uncertainty in understanding of the definition of reward which is very common. From a religious perspective it helps to understand and appreciate the meaning of reward when we reflect on the meaning of life and death. Few years back I remember reading about Uday Hussein, son of Saddam, his lavish lifestyle and stories about his savagery. People that showed any form of dissent or disobeyed him directly would be thrown into the cages of his vicious pet tigers. He enjoyed watching them get devoured. Uday suffered an ignominious death when he was brutally killed by American soldiers. Seldom do we reflect upon death which is the biggest equalizer.

Here's something worth trying. Next time you make a nice windfall, treat yourself to something nice. It could be a nice house, car, laptop or whatever works for you. At the same time do something nice for someone less fortunate than you, an act of mercy such as sponsoring an orphan, or helping a kid who is battling cancer, etc. See which one gives you more satisfaction or REWARD.

Fantastic post. Absolute gem! Just wanted to acknowledge it.

I know you are asking it jokingly, but I will answer it seriously.

How are you so sure what I am going to say in the event of a plane crash with myself in it?
When did God ever stop a plane from crashing?



You do hit on a good point and make a strong comeback. Suppose I go to a Yanomami tribe and take that sucker to a plane ride and the Foccker (NOT a cuss word, Google it) be crashing and that punk be shouting "Ajnwkfaklsdfajk O Matahari jndsjkfgsdfnfjk! O kjahfwdsdkd!! O save me Asdghgfgf! O Lord Ssdfdsdg!!"

(I know I am such a ..if not racist. lol)

So by that logic and point, does it mean whatever the hell that kid spew out in his dire stressful circumstance - per his shamanic programming- does THAT mean that that Deity is the True deity?

Good one Tonymoy Montona. :up: :) :) :flag:

tonmoy.dhaka
September 13, 2018, 01:24 PM
This is an expected reply.

If God wants, He can save a crashing plane miraculously, but God has subjected His creation to a fixed, pre-determined set of laws of cause and effect, and thus, a crashing plane must crash. The point was - on a crashing plane or in a situation of COMPLETE helplessness, every human soul, irrespective of verbal pronouncement, cries out to a higher power for salvation. And this is one of the proofs of God's existence. In a dire situation, all pride melts and the inner inclination to submit to God manifests naturally:

It is He who enables you to travel on land and sea until, when you are in ships and they sail with them by a good wind and they rejoice therein, there comes a storm wind and the waves come upon them from everywhere and they assume that they are surrounded, supplicating Allah, sincere to Him in religion, "If You should save us from this, we will surely be among the thankful." But when He saves them, at once they commit injustice upon the earth without right. O mankind, your injustice is only against yourselves, [being merely] the enjoyment of worldly life. Then to Us is your return, and We will inform you of what you used to do. [The Noble Quran 10:22-23]

Thus the call of Islam is - return to God and submit to Him willfully and consciously, when you are still healthy and safe and able, before your are snatched by God's power and rendered completely helpless:

Respond to your Lord before a Day comes from Allah of which there is no repelling. No refuge will you have that day, nor for you will there be any denial. But if they turn away - then We have not sent you, [O Muhammad], over them as a guardian; upon you is only [the duty of] notification. And indeed, when We let man taste mercy from us, he rejoices in it; but if evil afflicts him for what his hands have put forth, then indeed, man is ungrateful. [The Noble Quran 42: 48-49]

BTW, if a plane crashes, scientists can benefit from it because of God setting this universe upon a fixed set of physical laws, and not because of anyone's sacrifice or death.


God did NOT set the universe upon fixed set of physical laws (or whatever you call it). Once you go inside the realm of quantum physics, you will realize that a lot of the outcome is determined by chance (probability).

I will try to do a Zeeshan and comment on the bolded part that you mentioned

It is He who enables you to travel on land and sea until, when you are in ships and they sail with them by a good wind and they rejoice therein,

So he did not mention anything about flight (only land and sea)... :D
Even at sea, sail boats are not used anymore, other words a "good wind" is not absolutely necessary.

By the way, flight was present in the time of Muhammad too!! It was not a plane but a winged horse/donkey/mule (Buraq) that Muhammad used to fly to heaven and all the way to Jerusalem.
I will never know why the God did not just teleport (just bend space) the prophet and instead created a whole winged horse/mule/donkey just for this purpose...

If you want to discuss the science of Buraq further, well wings will not help you fly at a very high altitude to be honest. Specially with an adult male in the back. Not to mention, it would take a humongous wing in order to propel something the size of a horse/donkey to take flight. The picture of Buraq shows the wings are small. Makes you wonder what is the purpose of the wing?

ToBeFair
September 13, 2018, 01:29 PM
Just curious ToBeFair, do you have any fantastic reference to all the attributes of Allah(SWT)? I am starting to like your thoughts.

The following playlist might be good start.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXzcr6Y5e54&list=PLYZxc42QNctURgkeFzyGxuomB3k2zdCL0

Zeeshan
September 13, 2018, 01:55 PM
The following playlist might be good start.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXzcr6Y5e54&list=PLYZxc42QNctURgkeFzyGxuomB3k2zdCL0

Thank you sir. Much appreciated. I jumped quickly to Unique Characteristics.

A little too fatshamy for my taste. But willing to see past that. :) :up:

aklemalp
September 13, 2018, 06:15 PM
God's plan- Drake

Jadukor
September 13, 2018, 07:42 PM
What have I done now?
Someone asked a very simple question here " What is the benefit of praying/remembrance if everything is pre-destined" ?


The only way this makes sense to me is if god can see time as non linear or as a dimension like length, height or width where point A to point B is all layed out at the same time (e.g. ending of interstellar).

Zeeshan
September 14, 2018, 12:41 AM
Boraq ride could very well be a DMT laced trip. Either ergotic or naturally secreted in the brain from prolonged state of meditation or other blissful bhakti and worship of God/Allah (Swt). Moses' burning bush shctick has been mutedly been refered to as a DMT trip.

In DMT trip - as heard from stories online- one gets to find out what happens after death. The ego dies and soul gets released. Definitely it is not a frikkin joke nor a recreational your go-to-dispensary average drug. It's highly illegal schedule something drug that has not a narcotic effect but changes Insight so as to shift your paradigm of cosmic blueprint.

My one came with isolation tank. And I had no 'weird trips' or anything.

People who exogenously consume often report (or whatever that is known of after the trip is over) of having been 'sucked out of the body' or this 'reality' to Outside of the 'matrix' to find out what it is all really about. It is kinda like meeting God (or finding out for one that YOU are God or the Divine Self or Atman.)

Someone gets omnipotent cosmic vantage point. Some gets sucked into small atomic particles. Some sees their whole life's timeline laid out before them by "Beings" or Spirits and some even stop consuming unlimited cannabis seeing the alternate life leading to destruction.

Some report of aliens or gnomes or Shiva or a divine female being. Ultimately these are all projections of one's archetype.

I for one very interested what would a Muslim's "expereince" be like under DMT.

Now all these DMT trips have something absolutely coincidental in common with NDE. They all exhibit the same experiences. As did the Boraq ride or Meraz story. Where the water was still seen running... Kinda like as if time got stuck frozen or some s.

Do know that DMT is only released in the brain during birth and after death. That is why some old people somehow gain Total Clarity and even recuperates and recover before their death - as if Suddenly Been Awakened.

Near-death Experience Traits

Most NDEs share certain common traits, but not all NDEs have every trait and some NDEs don't follow a pattern at all. Here are the traits that "typical" NDEs share:

­­Int­ense, pure bright light - Sometimes this intense (but not painful) light fills the room. In other cases, the subject sees a light that they feel represents either Heaven or God.
Out-of-body experiences (OBE) - The subject feels that he has left his body. He can look down and see it, often describing the sight of doctors working on him. In some cases, the subject's "spirit" then flies out of the room, into ­the sky and sometimes into space.
Entering into another realm or dimension - Depending on the subject's religious beliefs and the nature of the experience, he may perceive this realm as Heaven or, in rare cases, as Hell.
Spirit beings - During the OBE, the subject encounters "beings of light," or other representations of spiritual entities. He may perceive these as deceased loved ones, angels, saints or God. ­
­The tunnel - Many NDE subjects find themselves in a tunnel with a light at its end. They may encounter spirit beings as they pass through the tunnel.
Communication with spirits - Before the NDE ends, many subjects report some form of communication with a spirit being. This is often expressed a "strong male voice" telling them that it is not their time and to go back to their body. Some subjects report being told to choose between going into the light or returning to their earthly body. Others feel they have been compelled to return to their body by a voiceless command, possibly coming from God.
Life review - This trait is also called "the panoramic life review." The subject sees his entire life in a flashback. These can be very detailed or very brief. The subject may also perceive some form of judgment by nearby spirit entities.

https://science.howstuffworks.com/science-vs-myth/extrasensory-perceptions/near-death-experience1.htm

Seeing a panoramic review of the life just lived, from birth to death or in reverse order, sometimes becoming a reliving of the life rather than a dispassionate viewing. The person's life can be reviewed in its entirety or in segments. This is usually accompanied by a feeling or need to assess loss or gains during the life to determine what was learned or not learned. Other beings can take part in this judgment like process or offer advice.

Warped sense of time and space. Discovering time and space do not exist, losing the need to recognize measurements of life either as valid or necessary.

https://iands.org/ndes/about-ndes/characteristics.html

SportingBD
September 14, 2018, 05:11 AM
God will not help the humans.

It is humans who have to help other humans.

See Africa as an example, thousands of people die each year out of hunger.
Are you telling me they never ask God for help? That the parents of those people don’t cry out to God?

Where is the answer from God then? He lets those poor people die? Doesn’t he?
So what happens to the people who call him? There hopes get destroyed.

Simple fact is God doesn’t give a sh.it . Humans need to help other humans.

SportingBD
September 14, 2018, 05:15 AM
Be in the same situation as those poor people.
Than see how it feels when you call God and he doesn’t answer.

Go to those dying children, and tell them.. “You will get in the next life”. Shameful.

ToBeFair
September 14, 2018, 07:57 AM
La ilaha illallah (There is No God But Allah).

Abu Huraira (may Allah be pleased with him) reported that the Prophet (salAllahu alayhi wasalam) said:"When a servant of Allah utters the words la ilaha illallah (there is no God except Allah) sincerely, the doors of heaven open up for these words until they reach the Throne of Allah, so long as its utterer keeps away from the major sins.” [at-Tirmidhi]

Abu Huraira (may Allah be pleased with him) reported that the Prophet (salAllahu alayhi wasalam) said, "Renew your faith." "How can we renew our faith?" they asked. The Prophet (salAllahu alayhi wasalam) replied: "Say always: la ilaha illallah." [Ahmad]

SubhanAllah wa biHamdihi (Glory be to Allah and Praise Him).

Whoever says (the above) a hundred times during the day, his sins are wiped away, even if they are like the foam of the sea.[Sahih al-Bukhari; #7:168, Sahih Muslim; #4:2071]

Abu Dharr reported that the Prophet (salAllahu alayhi wasalam) said, "Shall I tell you the words that Allah loves the most?" I said: "Yes, tell me, O Messenger of Allah." He (peace and blessings be upon him) said: "The words dearest to Allah are: subhanAllah wa bihamdihi”. [ Muslim and at-Tirmidhi.]

SubhanAllahi wa biHamdihi, Subhan-Allahi 'l-`adheem (Glory be to Allah, and Praise, Glory be to Allah, the Supreme)

Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) said: "Two words are light on the tongue, weigh heavily in the balance, they are loved by the Most Merciful One." [Sahih al-Bukhari; #7:67, Sahih Muslim, #4:2071]

SubhanAllah (Glory be to Allah)

Whoever recites [the above] one Hundred times, a thousand good deeds are recorded for him or a thousand bad deeds are wiped away.[Sahih Muslim; #4:2073.]

Please feel free to add more. :up:

God will not help the humans.

It is humans who have to help other humans.

See Africa as an example, thousands of people die each year out of hunger.
Are you telling me they never ask God for help? That the parents of those people don’t cry out to God?

Where is the answer from God then? He lets those poor people die? Doesn’t he?
So what happens to the people who call him? There hopes get destroyed.

Simple fact is God doesn’t give a sh.it . Humans need to help other humans.

Be in the same situation as those poor people.
Than see how it feels when you call God and he doesn’t answer.

Go to those dying children, and tell them.. “You will get in the next life”. Shameful.



An imam comes to lead the believers in a Friday prayer.

He climbs the pulpit and starts his sermon exhorting the believers to always remember God. The topic of his sermon was supposed to be the benefits of remembering God!

However, to the utter surprise of the audience, within a minute, the imam makes a complete u-turn. Using expletives against God, the imam starts describing how God never answers the call of his servants. He also starts questioning one of the basic pillars of religion and says it is shameful that God sometimes prefers to reciprocate in the next life.

What a FRAUD and a TROLL of a personality this imam has been! What was the point of this imam accepting his leadership role in the first place when he himself was not well grounded in knowledge or had such resentment against God or his own religion?

The poet was right when he wrote the poem.

On her way to work one morning
Down the path alongside the lake
A tender-hearted woman saw a poor half-frozen snake
His pretty colored skin had been all frosted with the dew
“Oh well,” she cried, “I'll take you in and I'll take care of you”
“Take me in oh tender woman
Take me in, for heaven's sake
Take me in oh tender woman,” sighed the snake
She wrapped him up all cozy in a curvature of silk
And then laid him by the fireside with some honey and some milk
Now she hurried home from work that night as soon as she arrived
She found that pretty snake she'd taken in had been revived
“Take me in, oh tender woman
Take me in, for heaven's sake
Take me in oh tender woman,” sighed the snake
Now she clutched him to her bosom, “You're so beautiful,” she cried
“But if I hadn't brought you in by now you might have died”
Now she stroked his pretty skin and then she kissed and held him tight
But instead of saying thanks, that snake gave her a vicious bite
“Take me in, oh tender woman
Take me in, for heaven's sake
Take me in oh tender woman,” sighed the snake
“I saved you,” cried that woman
“And you've bit me even, why?
You know your bite is poisonous and now I'm going to die”
“Oh shut up, silly woman,” said the reptile with a grin
“You knew damn well I was a snake before you took me in
”Take me in, oh tender woman
Take me in, for heaven's sake
Take me in oh tender woman,“ sighed the snake

Zeeshan
September 14, 2018, 08:26 AM
LOL So SportingBD got dissed then? Aight... ^^^ :) :) :up:

SportingBD
September 14, 2018, 09:20 AM
As you grow older you learn things.
You start to question more and more.

You seek answers.

Just because you practiced in certain ways for most of your life doesn’t mean it should stop you from asking questions.

Knowing about God, seeking answers is another form of Dhikr.

Now if you can’t answer, that doesn’t make the question irrelevant.

One World
September 14, 2018, 09:21 AM
If you do not know what to say better be quiet, if you do not have answer to the questions SBD raised you better remain silent TBF (or is it BCF ;))

I have been here in this forum for 13.5 years and had enough share of posters practicing logical fallacies here and there. What TBF pulled in his last post was shifting ground, a classic case of ad hominem.

mufi_02
September 14, 2018, 10:33 AM
speaking of zikir, I had an interesting interaction with someone few years ago. I was getting out of masjid after a maghrib prayer and this Bengali guy I vaguely know stopped me. So after the initial hi hello he was telling me about the virtues of zikir.

long story short he is a murid (follower) of some peer in Bangladesh. I have always been skeptical of those practices. but he tells me he can teach me some tricks where my heart will continue doing zikir even when I sleep. I said how? that is physically impossible. he says his peer has taught him how.

I said bhai amar jaite hobe. ajke time nai trick shikhar. never followed up.

the way I see, zikir is more than just the lip service. saying aloud those Arabic sentences even without understanding does little good. It is about being conscious of the meaning of the words and saying it out of reverence and devotion.

roman
September 14, 2018, 10:39 AM
Is being a murid of a peer allowed in Islam?

tonmoy.dhaka
September 14, 2018, 11:17 AM
Is being a murid of a peer allowed in Islam?

Pir is a spiritual guide and murid is a student.
You need to embrace a more spiritual version of Islam (Sufism) to accept the idea.
In other words it depends on your views regarding Sufism.

roman
September 14, 2018, 12:00 PM
I have very limited knowledge in this, and Most likely my views are wrong. But I believe I do not need a spiritual guide to connect with God. He himself will connect with me if I call Him. Prayers are there for a reason. No one can save me from what is written in my fate and no one can give me what isn't written. Only Allah/God has the power to do so

I personally think that These pir babas are there to make some fortune and exploit those illiterates who put more faith in them than Allah. Even if they were genuine, why would I need them when I have Quran to refer to

Zeeshan
September 14, 2018, 12:11 PM
speaking of zikir, I had an interesting interaction with someone few years ago. I was getting out of masjid after a maghrib prayer and this Bengali guy I vaguely know stopped me. So after the initial hi hello he was telling me about the virtues of zikir.

long story short he is a murid (follower) of some peer in Bangladesh. I have always been skeptical of those practices. but he tells me he can teach me some tricks where my heart will continue doing zikir even when I sleep. I said how? that is physically impossible. he says his peer has taught him how.

I said bhai amar jaite hobe. ajke time nai trick shikhar. never followed up.

the way I see, zikir is more than just the lip service. saying aloud those Arabic sentences even without understanding does little good. It is about being conscious of the meaning of the words and saying it out of reverence and devotion.

The way I see it is basically like Hindu mantra or positive affirmations or any form of chanting that basically programs your mind to think of good things or kinda exercises your thoughtwaves like entrainment.

Nothing wrong it. Again coming from a kufr's perspective, we just think whatever you think 60,000 of the day it will have better focus and force than whatever you don't think of 60,000 of the day.

But bruh you should'av stayed there and learned them some David Blaine tricks. Woul'v comed handy in bar...

:) :) :up:

tonmoy.dhaka
September 14, 2018, 12:35 PM
I have very limited knowledge in this, and Most likely my views are wrong. But I believe I do not need a spiritual guide to connect with God. He himself will connect with me if I call Him. Prayers are there for a reason. No one can save me from what is written in my fate and no one can give me what isn't written. Only Allah/God has the power to do so

I personally think that These pir babas are there to make some fortune and exploit those illiterates who put more faith in them than Allah. Even if they were genuine, why would I need them when I have Quran to refer to

First disclaimer:
I am an apostate ..

The idea of sainthood is frowned upon my the conservative version of islam (the version saudi exported to bangladesh)... hence you will also find news of sufi shrines being constantly attacked by the talibans and other such groups.

As far as exploitation of the poor and illiterate is concerned, it is not exclusive to pir babas.. religion is big business.

Zeeshan
September 14, 2018, 01:16 PM
First disclaimer:
I am an apostate ..

The idea of sainthood is frowned upon my the conservative version of islam (the version saudi exported to bangladesh)... hence you will also find news of sufi shrines being constantly attacked by the talibans and other such groups.

As far as exploitation of the poor and illiterate is concerned, it is not exclusive to pir babas.. religion is big business.

I'd respectfully disagree with it. Now is not the time. If you think religion is big business, that needs to be under separate thread called 'religion is big business, right BC?' lol

:) :) :)

mufi_02
September 14, 2018, 02:16 PM
But bruh you should'av stayed there and learned them some David Blaine tricks. Woul'v comed handy in bar...

:) :) :up:

LOL I highly doubt it will work. Let's open another thread where we can discuss what works at bar. I got some interesting stories on that. right, right zee?

Zeeshan
September 14, 2018, 03:10 PM
LOL I highly doubt it will work. Let's open another thread where we can discuss what works at bar. I got some interesting stories on that. right, right zee?

Feel free. I also like to get inundated with our Romeos' midnight escapades and adventures and their plightful rejections, negging. misery lit and what not suicide notes with ronktato haater wall painting of 'i love you' 1 million times when not jumping off bridge. :) :up: